E37 • Finding Humanity in Diverse Perspectives • GIANLUCA MATARRESE, dir. of ‘GEN_’ at the Sundance Film Festival

Italian filmmaker Gianluca Matarrese discusses his documentary project “GEN_”, which is premiering at the 2025 Sundance Film Festival.  Past inspo includes the films of Frederick Wiseman.

Gianluca delves into the complexities of his filmmaking philosophy, exploring the therapeutic nature of his creative process, and the importance of community and validation in the industry. He reflects on his journey as a filmmaker, the influences that shaped his work, and the significance of finding humanity in diverse perspectives. 

Gianluca shares his excitement for the Sundance Film Festival, highlighting the dreams and aspirations that drive filmmakers.

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Chapters

• 0:01 Past Present Feature, Hosted by Marcus Mizelle
• 0:39 Introducing Filmmaker Gianluca Madarese, dir. of "Gen_", premiering at Sundance
• 1:20 Origins of "Gen_" + Creation Process
• 6:53 Empathy in Medical Filmmaking
• 11:31 The Role of Music and Sound in Storytelling
• 17:07 Philosophy of Documentary Filmmaking
• 21:19 The Art of Editing and Visual Language
• 26:58 The Joy of Filmmaking
• 29:19 The Narcissism of Filmmaking
• 31:13 The Evolution of Creative Expression
• 33:59 Therapeutic Aspects of Filmmaking
• 38:11 Validation and Recognition in Film
• 40:46 The Importance of Community in Filmmaking
• 43:53 Influences & Past Inspo: Frederick Wiseman, dir. of "Titicut Follies"
• 47:47 Finding Humanity in Diverse Perspectives
• 53:11 The Dream of Sundance

Transcript

Marcus Mizelle (00:28)
Just want to give a very, very, very special shout out to all the first responders that are just being incredible out there.

We will

will okay.

episode, Gianluca Madarese discusses his documentary project, GEN, which is premiering at the 2025 Sundance Film Festival. Past inspiration includes the films of Frederick Wiseman.

Gianluca delves into the complexities of his filmmaking philosophy, exploring the therapeutic nature of his creative process.

and the importance of community and validation in the industry.

He reflects on his journey as a filmmaker, the influences that shaped his work,

and the significance of finding humanity in diverse perspectives.

Gianluca shares his excitement for his upcoming premiere at the Sundance Film Festival, highlighting the dreams and aspirations that drive filmmakers around the world.

Marcus Mizelle (01:20)
How did the project start? And then how did you find this doctor? Well, it doesn't come from me. It's actually, I could read on this film with Donatella de la Ratta. She's a very good friend of mine and she's an anthropologist in the university, Cabo de la Universidad in Rome. And she wanted to write a book.

about these topics because she also had a daughter coming from this kind of fertility technique and her doctor advised her to go visit this one because she wanted to write actually a story, a book about the market and capitalism around bodies and many other topics around this doctor and she went.

And she asked me to follow her because she said, this is going to be a very good topic for you while I'm writing the book. And we actually had the same kind of method because she's an anthropologist. it's observation at the time at the same time. Then also trying to figure out the narrative and the structure of the story. And then everything happened from the first day. The first day we went shooting. Oh, she was observing. I was there with my camera and I found out the angle right, right away. I decided to stay.

behind this bookshelf and not to be intrusive, not too much in it. And I decided that that was my place without being voyeuristic. I'm not just, they know we're here with them. So I was imagining this as if I was a little bird, like just watching what happens and they're very aware of the presence. That's why I really like to be also very present behind the camera.

You do shoot your own stuff. Are you shooting as well as directing? Are you behind the camera? Yeah, I am behind the camera. Not all the time, but for the most intimate and private and personal films, I'm always the first camera pretty much all the time. But now I have also second cameras and other people joining the adventure with me because the first films, this is my ninth feature in the first three, guess. did it all by myself, pretty much. And then I had

people following me. For example, I have a DOP that really knows the way I film and they always follow me. And I'm really working with him very often. But still, I am the one leading and he knows what I want. And this was kind of tricky because sometimes it was better to be by myself and with the second camera. Because you're improvising. For me, the camera is very organic. This is the way I see cinema and this is

I like when we are in a kind of big workshop with people or actors because I also work with actors. I was an actor myself. I was trained in theater. So theater is my first family. And I really think the creation process is where I find the most truth when I film. I want it to be a set or what I'm filming in reality, like a big creation workshop with people.

So my camera is very organic and in the sense it's what I use to in a way write my story, but also get into, emerged into the material in a way. I don't know if it's, so much to talk about because my films are developed over the years. Yeah. Well, I just want to say, I don't find many filmmakers that are directors, many directors that are also operating.

At least in this podcast, there's not a ton that also operate most of the camera. I also operate all of my stuff. You're grabbing these intimate moments and these shots end up being extensions of themes in your mind as a director sometimes, you know, for dramatic example, to where like you watch it back and you're like, man, you know, you get lucky sometimes, right? You try some things and you get a great moment, but it's just such a cool thing to like,

to just see the visual representation of what you're after as a director. Like no in-betweens, no translation, nothing, it's you. And I sensed that watching your movie. I wasn't sure, but I wanted to ask you that question because it definitely just seemed really, really personal, you know? And also your vantage point behind the bookcase, bookshelf, whatever, like the profile shots. I would say one of the most impressive things about this movie is it seems like it's almost 40 %

from that vantage point, the movie? And I didn't get bored. It wasn't bored. It was engaging. It was like empathetic. The editing was wonderful as far as the very kind of quick interchanging of characters and getting to know the different patients, seeing different shades of the doctor. mean, the doctor, the doctor, such a cool dude.

Again, this is one of those, it's almost like I'd be better off not watching your movie, because then I'd be a little less excited and then we could actually have a chill conversation. Love the, I just want to jump right into the ending. I love the ending. I'm not going to give it away, but I just love, like whenever you cut to the slow motion of, you know, him dancing, I'm like, And then the, the, closing shot, of course, and him on his journey in the next chapter. Let me get ahold of myself here. So let's go back to the origins of this project and this doctor in particular.

I don't know, tell me about like the beginnings of like working with, what's his name again, the doctor? Bini, Dr. Bini. So as soon as we met him, we were very surprised by his empathy. at the beginning, we were a little bit in a way, I cannot say that, unsure about what we were witnessing because that's his job.

That's his call. He's a doctor. We are not doctors. And whenever you see people like just going through this room and sitting on the chair and expressing all the problems dealing with bodies, those desires dealing with bodies, they could be generating a baby or changing gender, going to another gender.

You have all the prejudices or can say things you've been hurt, you heard, even if you're not in the same, you you didn't go in the path, you don't know those journeys. You have all these prejudices of like, these preconceived notions. Yeah. Things that you've been, you heard all your life, you're because it's a medical point of view. It's not just, I watched the jury, for example, in festivals, especially queer festivals, a lot of stories.

about transitioning or this kind of a very painful journeys. And it's very often focused on the pain. It's very often focused on the personal intimate journey from that point of view. And we never focus on the company, the medical point of view. And then that was for me pretty clear from the beginning that that had to be the concept. I don't want to go see the

people's lives. I don't want even go to see the doctor's life. What interests me the most is the quality of the exchanges, of these exchanges they have, the kind of privileged words they are letting me witness, those precious things and the care, the empathy from both sides. not just the

personal pain. Sometimes it gets very egocentric when I see films about these topics, where it's about how, which is hard. It is actually a hard journey. But why don't we focus also on the administration, the political point of view of these journeys. And I think this is my quest since first film. Intimacy is actually political.

I don't need to make statements. I don't need to go and see how people suffer in order to feel myself relieved or astonished or angry against what I'm watching. just wanted people to be at my same level and I am at their level because very often when you watch pain, suffering, you are from the above point of view. You're just safe from your place saying,

that is very painful. there, I want people to identify, even if they're not going to transitioning or fertility, you can actually find something dealing with yourself in those stories. And also democratize and vulgarize a little bit also those topics, especially in a country like Italy, where the family is a big traditional value. It's very oppressive sometimes.

the messages we hear from politics in our country. it is what happened. It's more about a doctor and patient in a way. And especially in this film, public service. And this is especially in the United States. You probably see this like science fiction where you're watching because it is true that all these people are free of charge when they are taking...

Taking charge with that. You know, it's just wild healthcare in America. Yeah, I can't even, I can't even get on that because we're just going to go down a rabbit hole. So misery, there's something that some people say, misery porn, and it's kind of a nasty term, but like, it's kind of what I thought about when you were talking about avoiding kind of just seeing people's misery, misery, misery, because it's like, okay, what now though? Because what's next? We've seen that, like what is kind of the...

more digestible, human, relatable, universal path in. And when you're seeing these patients, I like how you stay with the patients and the doctor and like, you're seeing these patients at their most, most like most emotional peak as far as like, this is the moment where they get the news of the most important thing in their life, right? I mean, it's like, what else do you need that's going to be stronger beyond that? And it becomes kind of a motif in it, you know, as far as the, you're always seeing these conversations inside the

the doctor's office and it feels cohesive, I think, because of that in lot of ways. The music, love the music choice. Yeah, the music was really important because I always work with the same composer since many films and I always work in a narrative way with this composer. He knows the story and the film since the beginning of my work. So, he composes things and I use already some demos while I'm editing.

So it's not just putting music that sounds like what you want, and then he makes the same thing. It's really participating, giving ideas. In this film in particular, his idea was to use the Exotica kind of style, which is a style of music coming from the 70s, late 60s or 70s of Italian comedy. And it is actually part of the, in a way, the mood of the film. We have this hospital constantly under construction and...

How Italy, the political, the country is always oppressing and giving you hard life as a public servant. So there was poverty, but at same time it's very sensitive and it was an amazing choice. And there's also a choice of elements, synthetic, digital, and also instruments are played like flutes and violins, the alto.

real instruments. So it was a really resonant and structured choice of the composer. It's very smart, very smart. Yeah, it's almost ironic, which really worked. It didn't feel like a different movie. It felt perfect. The other thing is the construction. I love the construction aspect because in any other, I guess, you know, when you're on set, you're probably like, no, this is going to ruin my documentary because there's construction in the background. But you actually put it into the story.

And it worked so well as like almost like a sub antagonist, know, an antagonist in the way as far as just a worldly threat. But also it became very metaphoric for me as a viewer. Halfway through when it was like, my God, he's doing in a way construction on these individuals. And it's mirroring this construction on the other side of the wall or whatever. And it's threatening the precise, you know, surgery requirements that he has to do in the first half of the day.

I was like, ha, ha, ha. You know, it was very nice. And I like how you let the viewer feel like, I I felt like I was discovering it as opposed to getting handheld, getting force fed to me, these little things. Also the walls, all these corridors with these drawings, these are walls that they're really like that with these like amazing childhood drawings and the hot air balloon. before, this service used to be a maternity.

department, but now it's the fertility and other things. those images stayed and actually became a metaphor for some of these other place where all these patients desire wishes to go because every time you are there for these kind of processes, you go into a very complicated administration, a of papers, lot of bureaucracy. the public service.

But you need something to get out, to hang on, which is those places far away where you project your desire. And I think that was a nice metaphor. It's also for the same thing with the music, which is something that makes you travel away. And these images, also the balloon flying away or the boat, also the magic or the miracle of documentary, of filming reality. Because I went to another service to film this.

pregnant women downstairs and it was horrible. And I said, imagine if I had to do film here, it would have been really, really bad. So I've been lucky. And that's also the miracle of, of this job. When you, like, for example, also the biologist getting pregnant and being the one who's had the end that happened. I felt it was really, really nice that they come from someone in theater.

inside the story, the pregnancy. Well, I guess we're talking now about the film gods giving you good things to work with maybe, or just the way things, the happy accidents, the things you can't prepare or plan for. And then in the documentary world, they just, it's like these things are chosen for you as opposed to you seeking them out sometimes. Is that what you mean? Kind of like a- Yeah, happy accidents. accidents. It's so amazing.

Real life is funny. I call them miracles. In theater, we call it accidents in general, because the accident is really important for actors to move and to create drama. But in every story, the accident is the obstacle. The accident is important in order to have a story. That happened to me many times in my life, especially sometimes you call the accidents to you and they happen.

Sometimes you're wishing so much that something is happening that happened to me with my family. My first film was about the bankruptcy of my family's enterprise. And there was another film about an ex-lover who's retiring from life. And there were things that happened in those stories, amazing things that changed completely. I was projecting a final, probably, an ending of a story, and then it happened.

So your philosophy on documentary filmmaking, this is a chapter that we can really focus on for a few minutes here, your philosophy on documentary filmmaking. So yeah, what comes to mind? Like what is your approach? Is it always different for each project? I think there's something while you are experiencing, you're making experiences like filming reality. I started filming reality in television. I was doing reality shows for a long time.

the trashiest things ever. But I learned, I learned really a lot because at the end of the day, the method is not really different in the sense that you are waiting for accidents to happen. Sometimes you let me provoke them because you know exactly and very well the people you're filming and you are observing. So I think at the end, I really like narrative. I like structure. I like writing a lot. And I also edit myself a lot. And then I work with an editor.

At the end, think the documentary doesn't really exist in a way. My last film was called The Zola Experience. I filmed two actors doing on theater the adaptation of very famous novel from the 1800s from Emile Zola. And while they are in a way preparing the show.

what happens in their own lives, it's exactly the same thing that happens in the book on stage. So you don't know where you are, if you are in reality or fiction. That is a film which is actually my statement of cinema, what I think about cinema. And I think that I really like to break this deal between the audience and the director, where you always say, this is real because it's documentary. But actually, if I would say to you, this is fiction, you wouldn't even ask yourself,

if it's real or not. It's just a matter of how you are packaging things. And I think documentary doesn't exist, not even fiction maybe exists. It's really funny. But for me, it's an artistic object. And to me, myself, my experience, I don't make the difference between life and art. My cinema, my art is really my daily life. I'm doing films all the time.

I'm thinking of stories all the time. I go to see a therapist to work on this because I think at the beginning I thought it was crazy. Like, why should I live life through my creation? And then at the end, he told me, this is not a problem. This is you. This is you have to accept yourself. And this is not really a problem. And my vision on documentary is really that at the end, it's storytelling. And this is what it makes me.

alive. was a very, you know, Fellini and also other very big names in cinema, they will say, we make films because life is very boring in a way. And I feel the same way. I like to transpose reality to creation because otherwise it's colorblind, kind of life. It's very sad.

And that's the only responsibility and solution that I find to get going, you know, maybe that looks extreme. That's it. I'm coming to Geneva. We're hanging out. got this is to take longer than an hour. No, I mean, I so bored easily, very much so the same. Like, that's my big motivation is boredom. Boredom motivates me. It truly does. And there's some everything you said, most everything you said, I'm like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

Manipulation, know, nasty sounding word, but like when it comes to filmmaking, fiction or nonfiction, it's in my mind, it's the same. lot of it's so similar. I was making fiction stuff, trying to, you know, I making fiction stuff for the first 15, 10, 15 years, making a bunch of shorts, a couple of features, micro budget features, da da da. And then I just hit a wall. like, this is not, this is an abusive relationship. I'm not getting, you know what mean? Like it's like a lot of things I don't like and it's not fulfilling. And then I switched to docs and.

It's been wonderful. It's been great. It's all the same thing I was doing with fiction, except for documentaries get me off way more because all of these happy accidents that you end up getting all these real people, you're not, there's no, I have less regret. I have less pressure when it comes to, did I write this character good enough? Or did I direct this actor good enough? Was I in the way too much? Not enough. with documentary, it's like the real life steps in and just gives you

the big old thing that you're always after in any, in whatever form you're going, which is authenticity. And I think, at least for me, realism and like, what does it feel real? And do you give a shit when you're watching it? Do you feel when you're watching? And then once you find these characters, these wonderful protagonists in my, you know, that's what I try to find. And then you end up doing the same thing. You end up trying to put them in these kind of dramatic, these storytelling containers or these stories, use these storytelling devices to, you know, to make the thing work.

And then the visual language of it all, which looping back to your film, the visual language of this movie, mean, let's just loop in like the editing and the cinematography is because it's like, I just watched your movie. So I needed, I needed, I needed a few more hours to, to let it, let me process it, but I'm still processing it as we talk. And I just felt like it was very, um, what was it? Hour 45, something like that hour and 45 minutes. felt like an hour long.

It's, yeah, one hour, minutes. The visuals were beautiful and the visuals are great, but the editing was very, very nice and it just moved. And I just loved so many of the cuts. I love so many of the cut choices. I love the cut of, I think this fits into your theme that you were talking about with your music as well, where it's like the kind of synthetic contrasted against the real, where we cut to that one very concerned patient that's walking out and you...

And as they walk out, you stay for like a good two seconds maybe on the wall, on the painting on the wall, which is of this forest or whatever. And then you just cut after a beat, a nice strong beat. You cut to the real forest and you continue the next scene on that way. Little stuff like that though. It's like that as a filmmaker, it just makes me want to like celebrate. You know, it's little things like that. And you had a very clear idea of the theme and that's very thematic choice, right?

Yeah, I really like putting my hands into the real material. I told you, it's very organic for me. Whenever I start filming, and this is the case with this film, I start filming, I go back to Paris, I live in Paris, in my studio, and I start editing myself, what I just filmed, or I just interrogate in a way what I just filmed, because I really need to have the hands in it, and you understand the language, the code for this.

film. really much, I know that I have a great sense of frame because I really like cinema. I cinema and I've been educated in cinema. So I really like good night images and lenses. I'm really technical. The more you do something, the better you get period in absentia. Yeah. And then you work with also other DOP, this is their own jobs, the real jobs. And they also teach you stuff about lenses and then

Totally. And I'm really, the other day I was talking with my producer, we are starting a new film in two days and he was like, my God, all your colleagues, don't have so much technical knowledge that you have. They just delegate that to those who are in charge. But it's so I need to have control of everything in this film. I'm talking about the editing also in other films like Zula or it's something that I really like is not to understand when it's a sequence.

where it's the beginning, the middle, and the end of the scene. And in this particular case, I wanted this to be like a channel, like a flood of like the chair is the window of the world and everybody goes through this window. And I want to see the entire world passing through. I also had other people that I couldn't fit in the film, but they were like pharmaceutical informators coming to sell.

therapies or medicines, people from politics, the wife, many people passing through this chair and I wanted to this be a flood. So that's why we made with the editor, Georgia Villa, we made four films together. She knows that I like this similar consciousness. this makes sense. It's codes. This is very maybe theoretical, but...

In some other cases, I really like the classic codes and to break them. you actually, I like to study films at the same time, breaking the rules. Got to know what's up, what's going You need to study. Whenever people ask me, I teach cinema in university as well. whenever they ask me to be a director or whatever, just tell them, don't need to, nobody can teach you to be one. You just need to.

being in love with images and watching films and putting yourself, putting hands into the work. You need to edit. You need to take the camera. You need to really know how things work. It feels very natural to me. It's like I'm playing an instrument, I'm a musician and whenever you feel just play the piano. I don't know, maybe you feel the same. You are the same. It's really, I just say a pen. You're writing your book with the pen.

It's wonderful. We got lucky. We got lucky as far as, I'm sure you put in a lot of work and all this, but also like the fact that we have a love that we're able to identify and then be able to go after it, right? I'm very grateful for that. Very, very grateful for that. me too. You know, because I was like 14, bored as hell. I didn't even, I wasn't conscious about it, but we would just make, I would make, would steal my parents' camcorder.

And we would go and make home videos, like funny home videos or whatever it was, make movies. But I wasn't declaring myself as a filmmaker. I was just doing what, like, why wouldn't I do that? You know, was like, duh. And then the label came later as far as, I'm a filmmaker. Yeah, so it's like this conscious, it does, like you were saying, it just feels right. It feels like what we're supposed to be doing. Yeah, I remember one day when I was 18 or 17, I did my first short film with my...

VHS camera my father had and at the end of the day and I really called all my neighbors to do the sequence with the scene in the yard and and then I went to bed and I was so happy I cried I was like I'm so happy I am so happy right now what I've done I was there and people were were collaborating doing something that I had in my mind and I love this I was I don't know why I was so happy and then for a long time I went to

only theater, being an actor and that kind of other career, but I was always, always doing cinema aside. And then whenever I took the courage to start filming my own story, then it all started. When I had the courage to also get the hands on the camera and be technical and learn how to edit and it all started. And I felt the right place. I felt in the right place at that moment because I always say to my therapist again.

I'm maybe too narcissistic. I'm like making films always about things that I know, people that I love, things that I have around me. I'm very often in my films, even if you don't see me, it's my point of view, it's my intimate point of view. And then he said, oh, well, you're doing something with your narcissism. It's not that you are just, you're doing something beautiful. Yeah, because everybody's got an ego. We've got, whether we want to acknowledge or not.

And also it's like to what level, to what degree? I I feel like the first few films I did, was like too, was very just like, this is what I want to see. And that's good. That's a good way to be. But also it was a mixture of like trying to do what I thought would work. So it wasn't just, you know I mean? I feel that exactly same. I wanted to be lifted up and good job, Marcus, good movie. Whoa, you're so great. You know what I mean? And then once I figured out how to get beyond that, everything worked out.

but nothing was working out until I could get beyond that. It's crazy. I get the same feeling because at the beginning I was doing a of comedy in theater and I had a of friends that were screenwriters and we wanted to do the TV show, the right film. would sit on a table and think of dialogues and the concept. And I always felt this was really, really... Now I feel this is really forced. Now I find the same energy but with my own path. I find my own way to find ideas and...

It comes from reality. totally have a, and now all those friends today, they're not working. They feel so frustrated because I am actually doing what I like and I find a way. when I saw that a few time ago, a friend of mine who really never did whatever the screenwriter as he wanted to be, he will remind me of those moments where we were writing this crappy scripts and he was like, do you remember the line? It was amazing. And I was like, still? It's like 15 years ago.

That's so great. You're still there? But it's so great because you need the, I mean, it's like, what do you want to call it? Film? That's film school. It's film school. It's grads, whatever the hell it's called. It's films. That's film school. We're like, but we need that. I don't want to say delusions of grandeur, but you need that ferocity and not kind of a delusion of grandeur to get through it all. Because now I think maybe we're good enough. I mean, you're clearly good enough and I'm feeling better about my own stuff, you know? And it's like, I don't know if it would not be the same if it wasn't for that chapter.

you know, of trying to just get it out and figure it out and like, then realize it's very a lot of a lot of the ego is very interesting and about your therapist. I've been saying recently how like just a therapist that that just targets the film industry workers would be interesting. You know, like, like, I mean, or even just film directors like this is this podcast started because I'm like, I need more to I have more to say and I feel like

when I had to go on a podcast to promote a movie, it's never enough. I want more. can't wait. It's like, fuck it. Let me just finally do this. And this has been therapy. It's been therapy, think, for me, for sure. And I think for other people. also making the film, sometimes the process can be therapeutic, but the film hasn't to be one. Otherwise, it's a private film. It's not universal. That's why I always go to see my therapist trying to solve my problems.

around the making or because you don't want to do that in the film. It's the process. Sometimes it's also something you are doing that for reasons, but it doesn't have to be the film therapy. Otherwise, it's really just for you and it's very egocentric. So that's why I always say I keep my therapies there because I need to keep my neuroses really safe because otherwise I couldn't make films about them.

I love that. And I just think, you know, it can be such an isolating process and such a solitary thing sometimes, you know, I mean, but also simultaneously when you're sitting there at the end in the edit, it's so wonderful how you can get lost in it and just all of a sudden time is not an actual thing. Like today, this morning, where it was just like, you're so wrapped up in it and then in the best of ways. But then sometimes you're like, this isn't working, or I got to go through all these selects or all this. You know what mean? So it's nice at the end of it.

when a film does come to an end, or at least the film itself, it's just like where you're at now with this film, right? You're just wrapping it up. Like, how does it feel for you? Does it feel similar every single time? I mean, it's always, cause it's always like war every time you make the movie, but once you get to the end of it, do you feel like, ah, I want to do that again? Well, this is for me the worst, worst moment. I hate this moment of the film. are.

I really don't like I am now at the moment where we have to any any people to help because it's very technical with the mix and color correction. Now we are doing the end titles end titles is always like hell. Yeah, no, you can't miss anybody all this and then you have to coordinate music and graphics and then

And then you have a few days to finish and DCP and you know, it's, is like the worst thing ever for me. then even because I'm crazy, I'm starting a film next Saturday. So tomorrow is my last day here. I'm flying from Geneva to South of Italy and I'm filming for four weeks. And then I finished filming and I go to sound dance. So I really like crazy person. Right before starting post-production, was prepping for

for the new film. And at the same time, I'm also going to start new projects. Good for you. When I'm back. Fucking amazing. I'm really prolific and as I told you, this is my life and I think art and creation and life for me are the same thing. And I can't see myself doing anything else than tell stories. So let me ask you real quick. So is your first memory of being a filmmaker when you made your first short film, the story you told me?

I think so. was the moment I really... But then I didn't go that direction right after. I did like many other things. But I think it happened exactly when I decided I wanted to make a film and I was with a friend on the rooftop. He's a screenwriter. was doing... I actually did a sitcom for a years in France. I was a showrunner and actor of a short program comedy.

And so I was already into them, but it was more like theater, like comedy was a different thing. Just kind of big and not realistic. Yeah, completely not realistic. It lipstick almost, it was very funny because I was good at that code. I was good at being in comedy. That's what I liked also playing when I was an actor. And then I decided that I needed to tell the story of my own family. And that was the moment that I asked a friend,

to sell me a camera that he will use. I asked some advice from a producer that I knew. gave me also microphones and I just went and started to film. And that's where I really was being in my bubble and observing life through this lens and choosing the frames. And then I started like a really like a warrior by myself alone. And then that's when I realized

that there's something because at the beginning you don't realize the journey you're making. just, I'm starting to realize now. You're putting off instinct almost. People are telling you like, it's good, what you're doing. You're like festivals are like always called. They know me in different countries, especially in Europe and in Italy and France. But you don't really realize because you keep doing that, you're always in it. You're just just in it. It's something you have to do.

And then I can say now that I feel that I'm doing director. But you don't have the moment, exact moment where you're like, oh, this is, I didn't even know what's the job exactly. What was there a big moment for you? What is the biggest moment when you felt validated as a film director? Well, I went three times in a row at the Venice Film Festival. that's big. It was actually in a row and at the beginning, I didn't know anyone in the film.

films in the circuit and now I know everyone and they're really calling me for master classes, juries. It's amazing. Fighting to get maybe the premiere of the film to the festival. it's, mean, it feels like it's easy. Sometimes people think that I'm doing like two films a year and that people think making a film it's really easy and you have ideas like that, you make a film. But some of these films are stories that have been

holding in my head and working on for years. These seeds you planted years ago, Watering, watering. So sometimes I feel like people are like, you're lucky. It's nothing with the chance and being lucky. It's just hard, hard work. Sacrifice everything because it's hard to make a family or settle down somewhere all the time. I'm always traveling. It's really...

You gotta give up something to get something, you know, you gotta make sacrifices, right? Yeah. And your friends are always all doing the same thing. Maybe they understand you so you don't have every kind of friend. Right. be friends with everybody because they don't really get exactly what you're doing. Sometimes they're just projecting because you are director. They see you doing a lot of festivals and they think you are a rich person and you are... Oh my God. I was gonna ask you, can I borrow some money? Do you mind or?

PayPal? I'm just kidding. No, it's funny. That's some real shit though. That's really, that's like just your friend group. I'm lucky enough to have a great group of friends, but you know, same time, some times.

So it's like I'm on my own, you know, and that's okay. My advice is always to do, people are really sometimes encouraging me to stop doing a of things at the same time. But for me, it's the opposite. I'm really encouraging to start projects at the same time. There's one, maybe you're writing, the other one is shooting, the other one is editing. And then you're working with different production companies and finding you, creating your family of people you work with.

They will trust you and they will follow you even if you don't have the money at the beginning, but you will find and they will get paid, but they trust you and they really have confidence and faith in the stories you want to tell and in your skills. So it's really building a family and I'm really good at that. finding that really good. I found very bad people as well. I had so many hard moments, but now people around me are really the good ones.

Nice. It's amazing. It's amazing. Let me ask you before I forget, what are some past movies that really just made a huge difference to you? And then also second part of that question, is there any certain movie that inspired in any way your new film? Well, in general, it's really funny because I have a PhD in historian criticism in North American cinema. I studied film studies. So I watched a lot of films and I was really into them.

genre films. I was studying a lot of the comedy musicals and it's exactly what I'm not doing. Even if I know the codes very well, I have fun with the codes of the genre. I'm Well, I just want to say real quick, we're similar in that way because I was obsessed with nothing but comedy for like almost a decade. Rom-coms, all coms, all the sub-genres of comedy. I was just looking back at this... You see my little book collection. It's like I've been doing this for...

for fucking 20 years where it's like collecting books, you know? Anyways, we have similar kind of, similar I don't know how old are you, but I'm from the 1980. I was born in 1980. So I'm 44. I'm 82. 82. 82. So I was raised in the 80s and the 90s. I was a teenager. if I had to tell you the films that really inspired me, you wouldn't believe they're really pop culture. And I was like, I was raised.

watching TV in my room by myself and like watching all Robert Zemeckis films, Back to the Future, Roger Rabbit or those are things that make I saw Roger Rabbit in the theater. Zemeckis, fucking Zemeckis. Zemeckis is like, or what is that one? The first film that I watched in a theater in my life, I don't know the English title for that. do you remember? Coming to America with Eddie Murphy. was.

Eddie Murphy was a big, deal for In my small town near Turin, north east of Italy, my father brought me to see maybe a fairy tale because he saw there was a prince. In Italian, was the Principia Cerca Molle. was a prince looking for a wife. That was the title in Italian. And I remember the first scene is him bathing with all these naked girls. The royal penis is clean. Yeah. I saw my father was really embarrassed.

Because I brought this kid. How old were you? Six or something? Five or six? I was eight years old. What a great movie to see for the first time. was the first time I watched in the movie theater. That's amazing. JAR movies are really something that I call musicals. love musicals. Okay. Or also, you know, there's so many things. remember...

Ridley Scott, the first films of Ridley Scott or Blade Runner or let's say even, you know, Thelma and Louise, all these films. Thelma and Louise. No, I hear you. I hear you. Yes. All those. And the nineties was like ripe for genre films, you know, so many great. So the intersection between commercial and art, you know, it really was. Yeah, it really was. So I was raised with that. And then I made my education in school. I also remember that I re-had this paper.

pay for view channels in Italy and I didn't have the, I didn't pay. So I had like a pirate card to just get the connection, the signal. you can work and I will take all these VHS and I will record the films and make myself my own video tech. And I remember I also had this, I would buy to the bookstore the collection of all the H-Cock films, for example, there were this.

a company doing every week a different film. And I remember I bought all of them, but they were all in Italian. So imagine all these things I'm telling you about, they're all like double, doubled. Oh, they're dubbed. So some of them are really probably dubbed poorly. I would imagine they're changing the... Hi, how are you? I was like, a few months ago, I watched Pretty Woman on TV. was like for the first time I watched it. Not that. So I just heard...

Because I know the lines of these films by heart. But in Italian, I was like, my God, this is the original line. That's crazy. In comedies, there was no leash on them, I feel like, until somewhat recently. Now it's like you can't really... People are more sensitive to certain things. But now, if we get back to the last film where it's nothing about wrong comedy and genre, it's not really the inspiration, but...

It's funny the things you're yourself in your baggage and then how you use those things and you make your own writing your own universe. did this very important school, theater school called Le Coq, Jacques Le Coq school in Paris, and they always taught me to find your own universe. That's all we had to do. Find your own work, create your world, your artistic world. So for this film, of course, in Jan, I actually...

thought about a lot of Frederick Wiseman, that's for sure. Okay, aha, know, the observation, especially welfare and all those films where you have characters. What was his first movie? was in a crazy house, right? In Insane Asylum? Yeah, in the police station there. Titi Katfaliz. Titi Katfaliz, Frederick Wiseman, mm-hmm.

Predicat Weisman in the sense we are in the public service observing people and characters but at the same time I could have made a version of the film that lasts for four hours and we had a four hours version with also other people in the service we had the psychologist, the urologist and all the relationship between the other people in the service.

And then it looked like a Weisman film, but I didn't really go deep inside the other stories. And then I realized that I really wanted to stay there and capture those exchange moments. That was the film. That was the first intuition. And I wanted to stay there. So Weisman for sure, I thought about that a lot because when I was in film studies, I watched all these films. it happened to me that I met him. He lives in Paris. He lives in France.

And I met him because he was working on a... The French restaurant movie? Yeah, but you know, I had a friend, she's a director and theater director. She made a theater adaptation of Welfare and Theater in Avignon Film Festival. So I had this friend, she would see him very often. And then we made in France, in Paris, like not long time ago, a retrospective with all these films, the song Pompidou.

So I went to see many of them on screen and I went to see twice master classes with him and I love to listen to him. He seems so fucking cool. He seems so cool. himself. Right? He's amazing. It is amazing. And then of course there are so many French directors that I have in mind but nothing to do with this observational kind of style. Okay, yes.

observational cinema, direct cinema kind of, right? It's like, yeah, I just, I love Agnes Barda. I really like Agnes Barda because she really loves who she's filming. She will always say, you really need to love what you're filming. And this is for something that I feel, I feel the same. Even if I'm filming sometimes someone controversial, someone which is probably a bad person. don't know. had also, I think very egocentric people and

There's something that I really love that you have to make love with your camera. Can I share with you real quick? I just started this documentary. It's literally right across the street from my house. For some reason, I'm a walking example of film. What's in front of you? If you're paying attention, there's stories around. There's this big Trump supporter. I'm not a Trump supporter, but there's this big Trump supporter across the street. And I say big because his car is a Trump mobile. He has Trump 2024 on his hood of his car and he

drives this one wheel down the street, he wears American flag stuff every day. It's crazy. He works out in his garage. It's crazy. But the guy is a great neighbor and he brings me stuff all the time. And he's just, when I first moved in here, I'm like, everything's great except for that guy. And now I think he's a great neighbor. And so I of course had to film him throughout before, during, and after the election, which I've been filming, you know, casually.

And I filmed his neighbor who's a staunch Democrat right next door to him. They share a curb. One has a red car, one has a blue car, know, Democrat, Republican. Anyways, the point is I don't believe in Trump's politics and I think Trump is a dangerous kind of guy, but same time, like that guy across the street is still a human being who has his own philosophies and in my opinion, sometimes misled philosophies. And he is trying to be a good guy as far as he's as far as he knows. And so

I don't know, man. He takes care of a 93 year old lady. So he has this compassion, this French lady actually, 93 year old French lady who he's taking care of another human being every single day. And he's also a Trump supporter. So it's just like, let's pop the hood and at least just film and see what happens. I don't know if it's going to be anything, but it's like, I just think that it's important mainly because I feel like they got us right where they want us. They want us to have that line. And I'm not going to talk to you because you believe in that.

And it's like, don't think that's the, we gotta fight against that, you know? I don't know, it's just like, this guy seems like a great guy who happens to be. But I think it's important to find humanity, it's about human stories and if you love humans, interesting to find that universality and humanity and also in people you don't get along with, you don't agree with. That's so interesting, isn't it? That's when it's really I really like that, I really like doing that. course, I don't have to be a...

What I don't like is people really probably violent or things that really cross the lines of something that I believe in or injustice or even people are dumb. I really have a problem with that. It's hard. But there's a there's a wise-ness also in people that you don't agree with and something you want to explore. It's like if you're a kind person, even if you're misinformed and say we're lacking information, then I can work with you.

as opposed to if you're very smart, but you're very intolerant, I can't, I can't talk to you. So it's just that thing of like, people are more complex than the containers that we want, the labels that we want to slap on. And the city where you live in, you live in LA, right? I live in Los Angeles. Universal Studios is literally on the other side of this wall. So if you walk out in my backyard, you can see Harry Potter castle. I love that. I come often. mean, I like it. And I think it's actually a place where you have a really lot of different,

There's a lot of life there, a lot of different stories. Best city in America, in my opinion. I'm actually trying to... One of my next projects is based in LA, so I'm trying to... I will be coming for character study. I want to stay like a few months. You got to hit me up. We got to get some coffee, chill. LA is a set. It's a film set. I love this place. It's dysfunctional. Everything's... Whatever, man. Every place has its problems, but LA is special.

Don't we love his story, his path? Even in Nora, was like, what was that? 10 million maybe or something like this? Yeah, it wasn't, maybe even six something like that. Something like that, yeah. he's been doing it. He's being rewarded, you know? And I think he's a lover of cinema. I love his image. I want to be Sean Baker in life. You know, he made like the Red Rocket, the other film. He was one never saw it. With just one camera, one million, and he was in Cannes Film Festival competition.

Yeah. It's still about the budget. Nope, it's not. And I've learned that doing this podcast too. It's like, there's so many amazing films that I've watched just for the past half year. And a lot of them are around $100,000 $200,000. Like a lot of what these, a lot of Eastern European filmmakers, you know, like they're doing. And Carlo Vivari, that festival in particular, was very impressive as far as the quality versus very low budget. A lot of Venice film festival films, know? Filmmakers, you don't need...

bunch of money. You just don't get over it. Just go make your shit. Go make your movie. So I'll wrap this up. um, okay. Let's send each other films so I can watch your work. would love to send you my LAPI sizzle because I do think you'd like it. And I'm very excited. Send me, send me stuff. And I'll see you in LA when I'm coming. Of course. Yes. And, uh, real quick. So Sundance. So coming up just to wrap it up. How excited are you of your Sundance? Have you, have you screened at Sundance before?

No, that's my first time. I've been in many festivals around the world, but that was the festival I was dreaming of since I told you 80s and 90s Sundance was like on fire. And all the indie directors that became big stars today come from Sundance. Think of Tarantino, Soderbergh, don't know. All those we have in mind and Sean Baker as well and like everyone. So it was a dream and this is a dream come true and then the world competition. it's...

It's just amazing. I am really, really excited and I can't wait to make lots of friends with other filmmakers and meeting people, creative people. And I know it's gonna be hard because it's cold, it's expensive and it's a very hard place to be for festivals. Have you been to Park City before? Have you attended the festival? No, I've never been to Utah in my life. no. Are you gonna be there? Probably not this year, but...

It could be the last time that they're in Utah, potentially, right? Because they're talking about Yeah, they the contract ended, so they need to find a new location. This could be the last Park City. You could be a part of the last Park City, right? If you come, you hit me up, if you come, you tell me no.

it's a real, it's a festival for really people who like love cinema and love films. It's not about, know.

or don't know, just recognition. It's been a place for films and this is what it's amazing about this festival. They've maintained that, yeah. I mean, they've got sponsors, surely, you have to, but yeah, great, great slates usually. And especially the documentary, when the documentary lineup came out last week or whatever, was like, ooh, like the first day, was like ooh, you know, and it's, yeah, very exciting. Your film is...

very deserving of Sundance, but enjoy yourself, have fun. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. Thank you, Marcus. It was really nice to talk to you and let's keep in touch.