E39 • The Burden and Privilege of Legacy • TAD NAKAMURA, dir. of ‘Third Act’ at the Sundance Film Festival

Tad Nakamura, the director of Sundance-bound "Third Act," reflects on his latest documentary, which centers on his father Robert Nakamura, a distinguished filmmaker frequently recognized as a trailblazer in Asian American media. Tad drew inspiration from his father’s 1974 short doc “Wataridori: Birds of Passage”.

Tad shares the unique experience of growing up in a filmmaking family, the pressures of legacy, and the profound emotional connections that arise from documenting family stories. The conversation also touches on the transformative power of cinema as a means of exploring time and relationships. 

Also explored are the challenges of living in the moment, the role of art in coping with life's difficulties, the importance of community and legacy in the creative process, and the significance of elders in providing wisdom and guidance. 

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Chapters

• 0:01 Past Present Feature, Hosted by Marcus Mizelle
• 0:24 Introducing Tad Nakamura, dir. of "Third Act" at the Sundance Film Festival
• 1:53 First Time at Sundance Was Father's Last Film
• 3:38 Growing Up in a Filmmaking Family
• 6:20 Finding Your Own Path
• 8:40 Navigating the Shadow of Legacy
• 12:50 The Emotional Depth of Documentary Filmmaking
• 14:23 Capturing Family Stories and Mortality
• 22:35 Time Travel Through Cinema + Inspiration: “Wataridori: Birds of Passage” dir. by Robert Nakamura
• 25:10 Living in the Moment: The Struggles of Time Awareness
• 27:36 Art as a Coping Mechanism: Processing Life Through Creativity
• 29:20 The Editing Journey: Collaborating for Fresh Perspectives
• 30:35 Navigating Doubts: The Emotional Rollercoaster of Filmmaking
• 32:29 The Impact of Loss: Reflections on Mortality and Legacy
• 35:31 The Wisdom of Elders: Valuing Experience in Filmmaking
• 38:56 The Role of Community: Building Support in the Creative Process
• 40:37 PBS and Independent Filmmaking: A Home for Authentic Stories
• 42:27 Sundance Tip: The Slopes Are Empty
• 43:59 Advice to Younger Filmmaking Self: Build A Community
• 46:15 Will Your Children Make Films?

Transcript

Marcus Mizelle (00:25)
the director of Sundance-bound third

reflects on his latest centers on his father Robert Nakamura.

a distinguished filmmaker frequently recognized as a trailblazer in Asian American media.

Tad drew inspiration from his father's 1974 short Watadori, Birds of experience of growing up in a filmmaking family, the pressures of legacy, and the profound emotional connections that arise from documenting family stories.

The conversation also touches on the transformative power of cinema as a means of exploring time and relationships.

Also explored are the challenges of living in the moment, the role of art in coping with life's difficulties, the importance of community and legacy in the creative process, and the significance of elders in providing wisdom and guidance.

Speaker 1 (01:10)
So how you doing, what's going on? you just finished this film?

Speaker 2 (01:13)
Yeah, super excited. I've been working on this film for seven years now. yeah, so it's been quite a journey, both logistically, you know, we started before COVID and then that hit kind of put a pause on everything. As well as, you know, we actually started filming before my dad was diagnosed with Parkinson's. So this film really kind of documented this whole journey that we

we've all been on with my dad's health. But yeah, all to say, this is kind of, know, to premiere at Sundance is a dream come true. Actually, the first time I went to Sundance was one of my dad's last film that he directed. It was a short film that premiered at Sundance, I think in 02. You know, being in LA, filmmaking family, of course, that was the first time.

I ever saw Falling Snow, I was in my 20s already, but it was being in Park City. And then one of my short films actually premiered at Sundance in 2008. So to come back with this film at Sundance, my whole family, my sister, her kids, my kids, my mom and dad, we're all gonna go up. So it's really a dream come true.

Speaker 1 (02:33)
That's awesome. Is this going to be the last Sundance? Congrats, by the way. Oh, thank you. Is this going to be the last Sundance in Park City? Is that the rumor?

Speaker 2 (02:40)
I it's second to last. I think next year will be the last. At least that's what I heard.

Speaker 1 (02:47)
Got you, got you. I've only been to Sundance one time and it was the Swiss Army man year. I went to that premiere and that was my first movie I ever saw at Sundance. It so funny because of the audience reaction. They didn't know how to take it. There was like 30 walkouts. I'm like, what is happening right now? This is great. Your dad has a really cool career, really, really, really cool career. I just have a pretty obvious question and I am just genuinely curious about it.

Speaker 2 (03:04)
Okay.

Speaker 1 (03:17)
What is it like to grow up with a filmmaker dad? not just a dad who makes films, but a dad who makes big, widely seen films. What was that like?

Speaker 2 (03:26)
Yeah, I I think, you know, at the time I didn't know anything else. So, you know, I assumed. Well, it's funny because I think as cool as my parents are, because my parents are also a filmmaking team. My mom, Keirani Shizuka, is the producer. My dad, Robert A. Nakamura, is the director. So it's not only having a filmmaker dad, it's having filmmaker parents. And so, you know, I think little things like, you know, growing up, I always

watch the credits. You know, I was taught to, after you watch a film, you sit down and you stay for the credits. I remember, I thought that was normal until I saw a film with my friends and they're getting up to leave and I'm sitting there watching the credits and they're looking at me like I'm weird. As well as, you know, but at the same time, as cool as my parents are and as cool as what they did was, when I was a kid, they're still my parents. And I think, you know.

As a kid, your parents aren't cool and no matter what they do, it's not cool.

Speaker 1 (04:28)
What's

up with that? Why is that the case? I need answers because my kid's starting to question me a little bit. I'm cool man, I promise.

Speaker 2 (04:34)
Yeah, exactly. Now that we're on the other side, right? Yeah, yeah. But it was, all to say, it was very unique. You know, besides every film we would get or every TV show, you know, my parents have critiques. Every film was too long, could have been edited better. But also, I think just, you know, any of my...

Speaker 1 (04:38)
It's a trip.

Speaker 2 (05:01)
Any quote unquote family vacations we went on were really production shoots. so, I mean, literally to the point where the first time I saw Falling Snow was when I went to Sundance for my dad's film. Also other things is, you my dad kind of converted the garage in the back of their house into an edit office. so it was normal for me to come home.

go to the back and my dad's, you know, editing or later on, you know, which is even probably more of a story is, you know, Justin Lin was my dad's student at UCLA and eventually and worked with him at the Japanese American National Museum while he was writing Better Luck Tomorrow. So, literally in high school, Justin Lin is working in my parents' garage.

And know, actually one of those in the film, the real awkward shot of me in high school talking about wanting to play football in college. Yeah, that was actually that was actually shot by Justin.

Speaker 1 (06:10)
So,

wow. You were hitting some boys too. Man. It's funny how it's like interesting how, I don't, mean, at in your case, it seems like you, weren't trying to pursue or intentionally as far as filmmaking, trying to like kind of go towards it, but it just came back around and it was inevitable almost, do you feel like, or when did you know that you wanted to do it? Like you finally said, okay, fine. I'm going to, I'm going to be, I'm going to go in my father's profession.

Speaker 2 (06:14)
Okay.

It wasn't until college, know, so I think, you know, growing up, you know, I was a total jock and just, you know, played football, basketball and ran track, kind of football was my life. so pretty much all up until junior year in high school, you know, the plan was to play football in college and that's how I would go to college. And so when that didn't work out, I was still the jock.

And so, you know, I struggled in the classroom, at least in high school. When I went to UCLA, you know, I was really insecure about my academic performance in classrooms. And so I became an Asian American Studies major and my dad was a professor at UCLA still in the Asian American Studies department. kind of the jocking me, you know, I needed an easy A, I needed a GPA booster.

what's better than to take my dad's class to get that easy A. And plus in my mind, I was like, it's film, it's video, how hard could it be? There was no reading requirements, there were no essays required. So I took the class and to be honest, was really, it was easier for me. mean, I really struggled reading and writing and in the sciences, but once...

Basically, it was a combination of images and music or images and sound. And to me, that didn't feel like schoolwork at all. You know, I made my first film in his class and probably it wasn't even until after I graduated college when I was able to work on that film and finish it properly and kind of make it better than just a student film and a proper short film that that film called Yellow Brotherhood.

started to premiere in some of the Asian American film festivals. But again, you know, that's my dad's community. So it was more like, did you hear Bob and Karen's son made a film kind of thing. And it probably was at that point when other people saw me as a filmmaker that I kind of owned that and decided that, okay, I was really going to do this.

Speaker 1 (08:59)
Do feel like you felt your dad's shadow and have you tried? If so, is it a real thing to try to kind of get out of it? Or what is it like, you know, if you're LeBron's kid, like how is it to go in and play basketball and did not feel like a certain way, you know, people are judging you based on who your dad is.

Speaker 2 (09:14)
No, I definitely felt that. And probably looking back now, that's probably why I didn't really want to do it when I was young. I think being a football player, being a jock, being into hip hop, that was me defining myself away from my parents. But I think the real connector was through actually activism and through Asian American studies.

So I think once I, well, I think the biggest shadow was started even when I went to UCLA as an Asian American studies professor, because all my professors were my dad's colleagues. Even my friends knew who my dad was. So I remember there was this one time I was part of this student organization and we were doing a workshop and I was talking about the Asian American movement and one of the older students,

was kind of just give me hard time and you know, he said, you what did your daddy teach you that? You know, and then there's little things like that, which were like, was, you know, I was more like, you know, yeah, he did fuck you kind of thing. But there was, there was definitely this, this shadow. And I think early on, there was this pressure, not only to live up to those standards, but also, I also know the high level of craftsmanship and the level of

standard that my dad and parents also hold and so it was also to be able to hit that standard. And so I definitely definitely felt that pressure but but for me I also realized just kind of like brawny right like there's there's pressure but there's also ultimate privilege that no one else gets.

Speaker 1 (11:05)
It's a blessing, right? You take it and use it. Yeah. Why wouldn't you? Exactly. And like, doesn't matter. No, matters. And in any situation, it doesn't matter what other people are going to think anyways, right? It doesn't help you. Yeah. So, yeah. Just an interesting kind of, I guess, experience that not all can relate to. But, and also it's funny because my kid's mother is a producer. Like, it's like Luke, my kid Luke's situation, you know, not as far as a

As far as like what we do for a profession, it's like I'm a director mostly and she's a producer and he's shown interest in films. And of course, like, Hey man, do whatever you want, but like, you're probably going to want to make movies. He's already making movies. just did, for his fifth birthday, we premiered Dino movie, which was his first one to all his friends, like 50 people. And he, he, he's all about making movies now. He's obsessed with star Wars. You know, he's got a little taste of star Wars. And so now we're constantly filming. So anyways, it's just like.

why not? if somebody down the line is like, oh, you got lucky, dah, dah, dah. It's like, okay, sorry. What do you do? You know, that's not really, there's this kind of irrelevant, you know, it's all about like, can I give you a good experience watching a film that I've made, right? Which by the way, is this your first feature film?

Speaker 2 (12:20)
First 90 minute film, I've made three other 60 minute films and a handful of shorts.

Speaker 1 (12:28)
And it's mostly documentaries. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. So, you know, I started out trying to make fiction and I long story short, I ended up falling in love with documentaries after my hometown pretty much, dropped a story in my lap and I haven't gone back since. and so my love for documentaries is, is really, it grows every day. And I never thought documentary, I always thought thought documentaries were almost, this sounds fucked up, but less than fiction for some reason.

Speaker 2 (12:30)
all documentaries.

Speaker 1 (12:57)
until I started doing them and I'm like, no, they're actually in my opinion now, much greater than in my opinion, at least as far as a filmmaker and what I get out of it and the fulfillment I get out of it, but not even just as a creator, but as a viewer when I watch films, like the emotional pull, the emotional gain that I get, everything's already real. It's real people going through real things and just, you know, this cinematic.

I'm glad that I did the fiction stuff first because I learned a lot of kind of cinematic tricks and techniques and things that I like and things that I'm not good at, et cetera. And then being able to bring them over to the documentary form. it's a wonderful, wonderful form. And, you know, the autobiographical, you know, whenever it's, it's close to your heart, it's always going like, you know, such as your film and about your dad and about you and about your kids, you know, in a way, like it's, so powerful. So

I don't know, mean is it, is there any tricky territory when it comes to making a film about your dad, your family, you know? Or is it just, you're just on autopilot? What is it like?

Speaker 2 (14:04)
Yeah, I think you could relate too, because I think it's not only making a film about my dad, but it's making a film about my dad who's also a filmmaker. not only that, who's very much my mentor and teacher, right? So I think that's why we decided to really show a lot of behind the scenes, kind of break that.

break that wall with the audience and really bring them into the process of making the film. Because really the structure of the film is making the film. And so I think where if I was making a film on another subject or if another director was making film on my dad, they wouldn't necessarily have these conversations. They wouldn't be talking about the film while driving to a football game.

Speaker 1 (14:40)
Yeah

The moment where you guys are at the UCLA football game and your dad starts to get a little uncomfortable and all this and it's just, it's more just from like a macro level as far as Parkinson's and I guess incoming Parkinson's, it's just like this glimpse into what that could be like, you know? And I'm not super familiar with that. So I mean, would, you know, that through your lens too, through the son's lens, it's very emotional, it's very sad, but also it's life and life is fucking annoying sometimes, isn't it?

I guess getting older in life too, becoming older. We're always thinking about it. think when you have a kid that makes you really think about it, and I think we're all the same in that way. We're all the same as this mortality thing kicks in, you know? And to see like your, within one cut, you know, to see your dad go from like on top of the mountain, you know, making great films to like now in his later life, you know, just in this struggle of, you know.

Parkinson's situation, just being older. mean, it's something that we can all relate to, to a degree. And I think about my own dad. I think about, you know, even my own thoughts when I, you know, man, now we're on the other side of the hill and what is my kid gonna become? Or what does he think? Or da da da da da. The silver lining is that this the fifth, you know, you guys have a beautiful family and the film is the silver, this film is the silver lining to document. No matter what, the film is like, you know, here now. And I think it's a beautiful thing to document.

his life and many other elements of what this film is about. I don't know. I guess a question for you. What was the most emotional moment for you while making this movie?

Speaker 2 (16:38)
Yeah, well actually going back to what you just said, you think it in order to make the best film possible, we, I was thinking of how can we make a film that only I could make as the son? You know, you can have someone else make a film on my dad, then it could be great. But it wouldn't be from my perspective or his son's perspective. So I think we really leaned into that of that was a kind of a constant question of how can we make this film a film that only I could make?

Speaker 1 (17:08)
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (17:09)
And that's why we're really trying to tell my dad's story through my eyes, through the lens of his son. And I think that became very special. I don't know what your relationship was with your dad or is with your son, but me and my dad, don't really sit down and he's not the type of dad to be like, so how's your life going, son?

We're not also the type of family that we go to football, but it's not like my dad takes me out to go fishing like these traditional father and son things. My dad would take me on film shoots. My dad would take me on to his film screenings or to his class. So I do think on one hand, is this, and I'm really happy to hear that it resonated with you, is this universal father and son relationship. And as we get older and as we become parents ourselves,

that idea of mortality, right? Not only your parents mortality, but then you realize that, you you're not always going to be there for your son. And so I think things get a lot deeper and like you said, more complex as we get older. And I think this film was really kind of capturing that process. Because I think I very much identify as much as you know, I have two kids, but I still identify as a son. And I think

I'll probably always identify that while my parents are around or but I do think this film helped evolve or really captured this evolution of me, you know, really realizing that I'm also a father. And so, you I think my anxiety of losing my dad has always been, you know, I've had all like going back to the pressure. think one of the

It wasn't pressure necessary to fill his shoes or to hit other people's expectations as I got older, but it was this realization of the privilege. Like, I've gotten all these resources, know, I've gotten, you know, been able to be mentored by the Godfather of Asian American media, like my whole life. And what are you going to do with that? Right? and so I think that's what, you know, I say in the film, like everything was set up for me. I just had to step up to the plate.

but I could still strike out. And so it was, that became the pressure of really like knowing I had all these resources, I can't drop the ball. And so, I think working on this film, I started to realize in the middle of making the film how special the process was to be able to just sit with my dad, ask him the tough questions.

ask him basically anything I ever wanted to know about his life. And at the same time, he could tell me everything that he wanted me to know before it was too late. But you know, think one of the goals for me making this film initially was not only to document and tell the story, was really to use this film as a love letter to my dad or a thank you letter to tell him, you know, how much, grateful I am for everything he's done for me.

and how much I love him. we would never say that face to face at the dinner table or something like that. So I think it was only because there was a camera and I had a half director, half son hat on that I kind of was able to have those conversations with him.

Speaker 1 (20:53)
I love the scenes. I love the moments where he can't help but to be a filmmaker. You know what I mean? Is the mic on? And you're like, wait a minute. Yeah, we need to turn that off. Yeah. Also speaking of hats, different hats, being a son, being a father, being a grandson, like seeing your granddad jacked, by the way, this dude had some muscle. But even going back in time, you know, seeing your dad become the son briefly in this film, you know, and then cutting to your granddad.

Speaker 2 (21:13)
Okay.

Speaker 1 (21:22)
you know, and then understanding what he went through and man, that hit me hard actually to, wow, I'll be open. When your dad expressed a shame for seeing his dad a certain way, wishing he wasn't Japanese, wishing he could fit in more within this racist world. I think the thing is it's like, that's a universal element as well, you know? No matter who you are, class-wise, race-wise, whatever, that hits. You know, being a father, being to a son specifically in this case, you know?

Yeah, it's a beautiful thing, but it's not always just so easy and beautiful and all this, right? I I guess it's like the hats too. It's like you are an individual, but you're also a son or a father or a grandson, et cetera. And it's just a trip to me, which is probably why I'm obsessed with just the time element of things in general. I mean, this podcast is called Past, Present, Feature. And this movie is perfect for this podcast too. And these conversations are perfect because it's just this different view of like different times and different generations and different, it just blows my mind.

I don't know. It's just nice to at least sit down for 30 minutes, an hour, just try to capture moments in time like this and just talk about and analyze, you know, what, what, what are we doing? Where are we at? What are we in?

Speaker 2 (22:33)
Yeah, well like you said it I think one of the great things about cinema or film is it can be a form of time travel almost right and I think that's why initially you know you go into the title of the podcast like that's it the initial inspiration for making this film was my dad's film What Tati Dori Bursts the Passage on my Jeechand, my grandfather because that did give me you know the

I grew up when my Jeechan was old, he didn't speak too much English. He was basically the nice grandpa who would listen to the Dodgers on the radio and give me ice cream when I'd come over. And so to see, when I first saw Watari Dori, like you said, to see him jacked, right? To see him working, to see him like the Judo master. I had always heard these stories, but to actually see him and actually hear him

when he was that younger man was really like a form of time travel. And I think that was something that I wanted to give for my kids was in the same way, they just see him as this older man, especially now that his health declined. My dad's 88 and my daughter is three. So I don't know what her image of my father is gonna be. And so I think one thing

inspiration was to make this film so that at least my kids and my niece and nephew will always have this to travel back in time with my dad.

Speaker 1 (24:11)
So cool. Yeah. I mean, I did this documentary called Bellevue during COVID and it was just out of boredom and my friend's restaurant was in trouble. You know, I was like, I'll film because you're going to make a good protagonist and because let's just at least document it. anyways, it's just like even just these documentaries are time capsules. And even if it's for just your kids or for and or for a larger audience.

Pretty cool what you end up with sometimes, you if you just push record and you just do some editing, a lot of editing. It's like kind of crazy, like in your film example, when you're cutting, you know, from your granddad to your dad or you, it's like, that's crazy in one second or in half a second, you can just go from 19, whatever it was, to now. It's like, it does have an impact, you know, it's kind of crazy. Just the time travel element of the film as a viewer when you're watching it. But yeah.

You know, look, we're gonna, I'm, you know, it's always important to stay in the moment. Of course we know this. I mean, what are your thoughts on, you know, just the, just being a human being and like, you know, do you find yourself struggling to stay in the moment? Are you good at it? What is your perception on, you know, what is good about both the past, present and the future, you know, with things? Like it's hard for me to not think about my kid not being young anymore.

which I need to stop thinking about it because it just bugs me out. Just enjoy the now. sometimes I can't stop thinking about

Speaker 2 (25:42)
Yeah, no, I think the older I get, you know, I think the goal is to live in the present as much as possible. And, I think I'm a very anxious person, so I'm always worrying about things that haven't happened yet. And I'm also a very nostalgic person that I'm always thinking about how good it was back in the day. But I think and I think you could probably relate to is having kids

they're just in the moment. They're the ones that got it right, right? They're just, they're not worrying about next week or next year and they're not thinking back to, you know, two years ago, they're in it. So I think having kids is really, you know, I try to look at them and like, wow, that's how you should live. Just be in the moment. But it is a struggle. Like I think, like you said, we're talking about time. I feel the same way as you do is that time as a parent,

It's just going so fast. So I think your kid is probably in between, my son is eight and my daughter's three about to be four right in the middle. that time flew by and like you said, they're gonna be teenagers and then they're gonna be out the house as soon as we know it. And at the same time, it's very vivid for me to remember what it was like in high school, even though it was very long ago.

doesn't seem that long ago. So this concept of time is really trippy. And I think similar to you, the goal is always to live in the present. But I think especially now, you know, with the world, the way the world's going with our current political system, it's hard not to worry about the future. But, you know, I think that's the one thing going back to the film is that, you know, I think my dad's story,

Not only is there a father and son story, but I do think my dad is an example of how one does get through this thing called life as an artist and how, you know, horrible things happen and will happen and very traumatizing things that you have no control over. But at least for my dad, he was able to use filmmaking. He was able to use photography. He was able to use art as a way to process this whole thing.

and continues to process it. I think that's, you know, going back to all the privilege and all the stuff that my dad has handed off, handed down to me, I think that's one of the biggest gifts now is that he's given me this art form, this shared language, this craft to help me process, you know, all the things that I have gone through and will go through, whether that's being a parent, living in a racist society or, you know, dealing with the mortality of my dad.

Speaker 1 (28:35)
That's beautiful. Yeah, the beautiful thing is the life that we're given and what we choose to do with it. We're lucky, you know? But it is this fleeting time thing. But I also believe that there's other stuff beyond this. I really do. Anyways, so I just wanted to spend a little more time just talking about more about, I guess, the film logistics, you know, as far as post-production of the film. How long have you edited this over seven years? You've shot and edited this over seven years, you said?

Speaker 2 (29:05)
Yeah, we worked on it for, I mean, I would say we started the film, you know, seven years ago, but really it was the last year and a half that I've worked with my editor, Victoria Chock, who did, you amazing. I think most of my films until recently, I've always edited myself. Same. You know, I think when you like, like, you know, when you start off or, you know, when there's no budget, you have to play all roles.

But I think for this one, because I am a character in the film and because it's so emotional, it was really great to have someone from the outside, my editor Victoria, to help kind of see things from...

Speaker 1 (29:53)
The freshness is so game changing. Even when you're not part of the, inside the film, I don't even know what that's like, right? But it's like just having those fresh legs, those fresh eyes. Documentaries taught me that, hey man, like your film's gonna be as good as you're editing. And you might want, what does that look like in this situation? And it's like, well, I am burnt out in this moment and I feel like I've done as much as I can at this moment. What if I brought somebody else on?

You know, and all of sudden it's like, you get the cut back and it's almost like you remain more of a viewer whenever you're in that process, which is easier to kind of direct it. feel like from there versus being in the weeds, you know, being lost in the weeds when you're just doing everything. So I don't know. Was there a moment for you in this film where you, um, you felt like you were a little worried that it was, if it was going to work or not, or did you feel pretty solid the whole way?

Speaker 2 (30:44)
No, there was definitely points where I actually thought I waited too long to make this film and I thought the opportunity had left just because my dad's health was declining so fast. I think there was a point where I was like, shit, I waited too late. I fucked up, but this isn't going to happen. But I think that goes, it was exactly what you said.

That's just an example of the privilege I've had or my dad's relationship, me and my dad's relationship is like you said, there's that moment you're like, this is terrible or like, you know, at any point in the production, right, there's these points of self doubt. But luckily I always have gone, been able to come to my dad and verbalize exactly what you were saying, exactly how you felt, I felt.

but I've been able to go to my dad and tell him that and he'll be able to give me a pep talk. But not, you know, don't worry, things will be okay, but coming from a master filmmaker and he'll look, so I think, you know, I felt one of the early parts when I was making my first film, you know, I was just like stressed out, like, this isn't working. And he said, you know, he said, this isn't gonna be your last film. Like you're gonna make another film. So this one doesn't have to be perfect.

You don't have to like define yourself and everything you've ever wanted to say on this one film. You'll have, you know, and that little things like that, you know, I've always had him to go to whenever I've had those artists crisis, those filmmaker crisis, which is why to this day, I still am very scared of losing him because when he's gone, I won't have that person to go to. And I've found that

you know, before when I would go to him for filmmaking crisis is now that I've become a father, I come to him during parenting crisis is, you know, just the struggles of being coming an adult. And he's always there for me, even to this day, like he's, you know, his, his health has declined, and he can barely speak now, but cognitively, I'll go to him with a problem, and he'll be able to, you know, he'll be able to make me feel better. And I think

that dependency is probably really tied to my anxiety of losing him. So while I've had success as a filmmaker, I really attribute so much of that to him that I'm really, you know, still very afraid of being able to be as successful without him, you know, by my side.

Speaker 1 (33:30)
the anxiety and the fear of losing a parent. My mom passed away when I was 22. I had just turned 22. That's my experience as far as my mom. Man, your mom, well, you know. For me, I remember I had two choices, accept it or don't accept it. But I knew I had to. I know that sounds broad, like. And I was coming of age. I was just coming into quote unquote adulthood. You think you are, but you're really not.

it goes back to the mortality thing where like you realize how precious and short life is. And also she was the one that knew that I should be a filmmaker before I knew. And that's what set me on my path. there's so many times where I wish I could call her for, of course, relationship advice with women, you know, or something like this, or just being a parent or whatever. Also, it's like, it's made me stronger in a way, I think, like, you know, being knowing that

It does feel like they're still there. It's a real thing. And it's just this, my value of more of my, of time, uh, there's no way I could have gained that without her passing. And I think that value has made me, has helped me create more of a, um, a desire to do, to do as much as I can to, you know, with my time. either way, yeah, it's, it's tough. It's fucking tough. But when people say it doesn't get better, I think it does get better.

But then of course it'll rear its head in weird ways. on the flip side, I've had my dad's pretty healthy guy and he gives me so much good information in life. And same as you, I can call him up and vent or try to figure out a problem or, know, and I love seeing how he's changed where it's like he's gone from like very kind of, you know, attack mode, like any problem attack mode to now he's like, relax, chill out, take it easy. Don't respond that way, you know, don't be.

Aggressive just be just be nice be cool be chill whatever, you know, yeah

Speaker 2 (35:31)
And I think that's, you I think in this film and with my dad, that's, it's, kind of highlights the important role that our elders play in our community, in our lives, right? As they have that wisdom, just like your dad, you know, is more chill now that comes from wisdom, right? That comes from life lived. And I think honestly, in our, in our society, you know, I think that it's the young that's celebrated, right? It's the energetic, it's the new and the elders and the ones that really have

the wisdom that could help us get through what we're going through and what's going to come, you know, I think unfortunately that's not given enough of a priority in our kind of modern society.

Speaker 1 (36:12)
Yeah, totally. But you know what? Your film is a testament to like, you know, shining a light on that, you know, on somebody's life and like making. I love a protagonist too, who in any type of film who is an older protagonist, it's always been refreshing because you don't see it that much. And it's like, yeah, they are. They've they've got they've got stories on their face, you know. So post-productions, you finished. How did you know when you were done with the edit? How did you know when to feel good enough to say, OK, I think we got it?

Speaker 2 (36:42)
When we found out we got into Sundance and we had to deliver in a month.

Speaker 1 (36:48)
Okay,

very practical moment, yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:51)
Yeah, I mean that was always told to me, is, you know, I care to this day is that, you know, films are never finished. They're just screened. So I think, you know, I could work on this film forever, especially this one. And there was a point where I wanted to because there was a point where I felt like this was the last time I was going to work with my dad. And when this film is finished, so will my working relationship.

my relationship with my dad in. And so, there was part of me that subconsciously just wanted to keep on like if I could freeze time, right? Like if I could freeze time forever and be in a room where I have my dad in front of me to ask whatever I want to go to, I wish that could be forever. And there was a point where I tried to make it forever. But I think the

It was only because of the team I had. And that was, think, a really cool part of the process is that a lot of the team members on this film, my producer, Yuri Chung, archival producer and co-producer, Alice Margolin, associate producer, Jenna Hamamuro, they were all students of my dad at UCLA.

Speaker 1 (38:17)
I love that. That's so cool.

Speaker 2 (38:19)
So it really shows the legacy. When I say my dad's known as the godfather of Asian American meat.

Speaker 1 (38:25)
How do you, do you find it difficult or tricky to, I guess, source, but also keep the film engaging when you're in it? cause I, you know what I mean? Like archival can slow, you know, when you're, when you cut to a still image, it's like, it can slow it down if you're not careful. Do you, you find any sort of, what's your experience working with archival footage?

Speaker 2 (38:45)
that's probably how I initially fell in love with film was with archival because I think like you said we talked about earlier it's time travel so you know most of my films have been on the Asian American what we call the Asian American movement which is in the 60s and 70s and for me you know I had always seen like cool hippies or cool like Black Panthers but it wasn't until I saw like

Asian Americans in the 70s that looked super cool, had the long hair, had the swag. That was really empowering to me. I think, you know, for me, it's like archival. Maybe, you know, when I say archival, we're not, I'm not thinking of the 20s and 30s. I'm thinking of like the 70s and the 60s. And then, you know, plus the music, just the whole vibe that actually got sucked me into to documentary filmmaking.

And it was a way for me to kind of feel like I was living at that time again, like time travel. And so, and also too, think now that aesthetic, right? We're so used to crispy 4K, 8K, that grainy eight millimeter, you know, it's that texture that just to me is cool.

Speaker 1 (39:50)
Totally. Yeah.

And that mix when you mix media, when you mix media like like in the doc forum sometimes, it's so exciting when you're cutting from like a yeah, like a like three different medias and like, you know, in a small time span. It's always so fun. So fun. And it's fucking time travel, drama, drama, drama, drama, lens, PBS. So, yeah, well, how did that look as far as how you guys that's your distributor, I guess you've already locked that in.

Speaker 2 (40:28)
Yeah, Center for Asian American Media and ITVS were early partners and funders of the film. most of, going back to my dad and my parents' work, almost all their work was eventually broadcasted on PBS. And so for me as a filmmaker, for an independent filmmaker, the studios, even now with the mainstream, like the big streamers,

It's kind of pretty inaccessible, right? I think if you're not part of a major studio, if you're not part of a major production company, you don't really see it as a reality.

Speaker 1 (41:09)
They make certain, they put on certain kinds of things, right? That's just what it is a little bit. PBS has also been a home for my, all of my documentaries. So I love, love, PBS.

Speaker 2 (41:19)
Yeah, so ITVS was an early partner and they've been really great. And so it has always been slated for their series, Independent Lens, which, you know, from, I mean, that's the big time for me in terms of documentaries. Like so many of the films that I love and directors that I look up to have, you know, had stuff on PBS and Independent Lens.

Speaker 1 (41:47)
Yeah, so it did 12 days of meripa, was that independent lens?

Speaker 2 (41:51)
I'm not sure, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:53)
I know it's PBS of some kind, but Oscar winning, PBS distributed or whatever broadcasted 12 days of Maripal, which powerful film, but also I'd love to see a PBS film win the Oscar, which kind of is, which is a great thing when, you know, up against what you had just mentioned of this kind of studio system looking for, you know, very specific types of buzz quality related things, you know, versus like, you know, stories with sustenance.

Sometimes they overlap, you know? Yeah, amazing. So, okay, so Sundance, it's next week, right? Is it next week or week and a half?

Speaker 2 (42:24)
Yeah.

Week and a half, yeah, it's coming up so fast.

Speaker 1 (42:34)
Very exciting. What's your plans?

Speaker 2 (42:37)
Super excited. Yeah, I mean, you know, the cool thing is my whole family is going to come up and you know, I've been there a couple of times and you know, honestly, I think for me, it's just the excitement and everything. know, coming from LA, you're in this winter wonderland, you're seeing, you know, your filmmaking heroes or celebrities left and right. But I'm also very much looking to go on snowboarding.

That's the other secret. Well, not that much of a secret, but if you go snowboarding in Park City or skiing during Sundance, the slopes are empty because everyone's at the festival. So I'm also not only looking forward to celebrating the film with the filmmaking team and my family, but actually my high school friends are going to come up for the second half. And that's actually really grounding.

So the first time I premiered a short film, we did the same thing. My family, back in 2008, my family came for the first half of the festival. It was great, but I was also really stressed out. That was my first time screening at Sundance. And then my high school friends that I played football with, that are in the film, they come up and it's just very grounding.

Speaker 1 (43:59)
What comes to mind when it comes to just like the most vital or one of the most vital pieces of information you could give your earlier filmmaking self if you could talk to him right now? And even if it's something that your dad might have told you that you see more clearly now after going through the process, what comes to mind?

Speaker 2 (44:19)
I mean, what immediately comes to mind would to trust the process, trust the resources you have, trust your community and trust like my dad told me, you know, this isn't going to be your last film. And yeah, I think, know, as an artist, and this very much happens to me is you get too much in your head and you worry how the work is going to turn out.

And that is probably the most detrimental to the creative process, right? just to free yourself up and to really remember who you're making the film for. And I think, you know, now I've been making films for 20 years now, and I could really say that, you know, because I made films for my own Asian American, Japanese American community.

in return, that community has really sustained a career for me, has really not only given me inspiration and more stories to tell, but literally will come out to my films, you know, give me that validation and encouragement to keep on going. I think, yeah, I think it's really that because even in the film, you know, I think for my dad, he had the skills, he always had the skills.

but it's not until he found his community that everything really clicked. think in today's day, I think a lot of young filmmakers aren't reminded to build a community and to make films for the community. It's very much this individualistic career awards funding, but in the end, it's that community that's really gonna sustain your career. At least it has been in my case.

Speaker 1 (46:07)
I can't agree more. One more question. Do you think your kid's gonna, your son or daughter, you have daughters as well? Yeah. Do you think one of your kids is gonna end up making films?

Speaker 2 (46:18)
I mean, we'll see. I think that's one of the things that, you know, at the end of the film, you know, I think this film, in a way, I'm carrying on multiple traditions and one of them is also maybe putting pressure on my kid to be a filmmaker. But I don't know, we'll see. I think now I could see it though. My parents never really, they would joke about it, but they would say, you know, they didn't want me to be a filmmaker.

because they wanted me to be able to financially support them. I can kind of see that now as a parent, you're like, as great as this is, it's not the most sustainable career path. But at the same time, at least he knows it's him and my daughter knows it's in their blood if they choose to.

Speaker 1 (47:10)
And you know what, everything's difficult. You might as well just do what you want to do.