E46 • Navigating Death and Legacy as Themes • BEN HETHCOAT, dir. of ‘Coroner To The Stars’ - AUDIENCE AWARD WINNER at Slamdance

Ben Hethcoat opens up about his decade-long journey creating the documentary "Coroner To The Stars," which focuses on Dr. Thomas Noguchi, a well-known coroner famous for his work on high-profile celebrity deaths, including those of Marilyn Monroe and Natalie Wood. Ben draws inspiration from documentary legend Errol Morris.

He tackles the difficulties of addressing sensitive subjects like death, the personal ties that shaped his filmmaking, and the need to handle public perception and media hype carefully. He also discusses how celebrity death investigations have changed over time and the crucial role of archival research in crafting compelling narratives.

The film just took home the Audience Award for Best Documentary at Slamdance, and Ben reflects on the emotional significance of unveiling such a deeply personal project to the audience.

Like, subscribe and follow us on our socials @pastpresentfeature

Chapters

• 0:01 Sponsored by Valerion Projectors
• 0:43 Past Present Feature, Hosted by Marcus Mizelle
• 1:03 Ben Hethcoat, dir. of "Coroner to the Stars" - Audience Award Winner at Slamdance

Transcript

Marcus Mizelle (01:03)
Ben Hethcoat opens up about his decade-long journey creating the documentary, Coroner to the Stars, which focuses on Dr. Thomas Noguchi, a well-known coroner famous for his work on high-profile celebrity deaths, including those of Marilyn Monroe and Natalie Wood. Ben draws inspiration from documentary legend, Errol Morris.

He tackles the difficulties of addressing sensitive subjects like death, the personal ties that shaped his filmmaking, and the need to handle public perception and media hype carefully. He also discusses how celebrity death investigations have changed over time and the crucial role of archival research in crafting compelling narratives.

the film just took home the audience award for best documentary at Slamdance,

Ben reflects on the emotional significance of unveiling such a deeply personal project to the audience.

Marcus Mizelle (01:48)
Ben Hathcote is the senior video producer at Crooked Media where he oversees video production for Pod Save America and develops original video first series about news and politics. Before joining Crooked, Ben was a video producer at Marketplace creating explainer videos that demystify the economy and its impact on everyday life. His feature documentary film, Coroner to the Stars, which explores the remarkable life and controversial career of LA coroner, Dr. Thomas Noguchi, which is premiering at Slamdance 2025 tomorrow night, correct? Yep.

tomorrow afternoon, actually. Are you excited? So excited. I'm mostly excited because this is the first time anyone has seen it outside of my filmmaking group, my producers and whatnot. So getting to experience this with Dr. Noguchi and the other folks involved in the film is definitely something I'm looking forward to. Have been for a long time. So look, check this out. We have a connection here.

I've been filming a documentary called LAPI for three, three and a half, four years about this really fun, quirky PI. One of his kind of like legacy cases that he really wants to, that he does explore in our documentary is what he thinks is the death of his mentor, Fred O'Tash. Nobody's heard of him, but this is the PI that based LA confidential on that Jake Giddies from Chinatown's based on. He's the one that wiretapped Marilyn Monroe's.

You know, house. Right, right, right. Anyway, cut to 1992, the day before Fred's supposed to go on the John Rivers show to talk about his new book, Marilyn, the Kennedys and Me. And Paul knew this because Paul was also his neighbor at the time. That's how they met Anyways, the day before he was supposed to go on this show, he dies of a heart attack. And Paul

My main character swears he heard three gunshots at three o'clock in the morning across the patio where Fred lived. Basically, he decides to start investigating the super cold case and we kind of know it's not going to go anywhere maybe, but he starts investigating it he decides that he needs to investigate what Fred was investigating, which is like the death of Marilyn Monroe. This little rabbit hole thing. so very quickly we're like, how cool would it be if we could just talk to Thomas Noguchi, the actual coroner.

and I called him and I actually talked to him for about 30 seconds. 30 seconds. You two and a half years ago. And he was very lovely and sweet, but he was just like, you know, he was very tired sounding, but he, you know, he's old man. He's 98 years old, right? He's, he's 98 now. So yeah, when you talk to him, he must've been 90. He was 96. I felt bad because I'm like bothering this dude.

But he was very sweet and he's like, I'm no longer giving interviews. And I was like, well, don't, know, we just need, if you could have just, if you could talk to the PI just for a second, it would be great for our scene. But, but, and then we got disconnected somehow. It just got weird. So Paul and I actually tried to go to his house and ring the doorbell. And of course that was that we didn't push it after that, but it was funny because I saw your documentary and it's not ours is like, it's a scene in our movie as far as an Agouti. It's not, if you took it out, we'd still be okay. But then I saw your film.

the slate for Slam Vance come out and say, holy shit. How cool was that? Yeah. And so I wanted to reach out and I'm always reaching out. I'm trying to find films that I'm interested in that are at these major festivals anyways. And when I saw that, I'm like, this is fun. This is cool. I can't wait to talk to this guy and just kind of connect on that level. But mainly to ask you some more questions about just like what it is to let's start with this. How did how did this project come about? How did you get involved with this project? Sure, sure, Well,

So for me, my involvement in the death investigation community predates even my involvement in the film because growing up, my father was a coroner medical examiner. So I've always sort of known about the world of coroners and, you know, death investigations, medical examiners. And, you know, I have very early childhood memories of being in the cold crypt that was at the hospital that my father worked at in Georgia.

moved to Los Angeles several years ago now, like 15 years ago, and really fell hard for documentaries. I had been interested in filmmaking and had been producing independent films and some horror films. So you could say that I've always been into the macabre, but then when my producer actually came upon at this used bookstore,

on the dollar rack corner. This was the first book that Dr. Thomas Noguchi wrote about his celebrity high profile cases. And then he was curious as to whether or not Dr. Noguchi was still around and why there had never been a documentary made about him. we got in touch with Dr. Noguchi and it took a little bit of courting to convince him that we wanted to do this and for him to

come on board making a documentary about him because Dr. Noguchi had a real difficult relationship with the press and with the media. he, at that time, and I think even before we had gotten in touch with him about participating in a documentary, he had been approached by others. he always saw, he thought the idea of a documentary or a film made about him was coming from this.

idea of like us being the press, right? Of filmmakers being the media. Because that was his experience, right? I I watched your documentaries and it's like that was that was his a large part of his career. Yeah, just getting hammered. He handled it. He seemed to have handled it very coolly. I got to get that man some credit. Yeah, he really did. And, you know, he had a lot of support along the way to help him get there. But but really, it was it was overcoming that hurdle of like convincing him that, we're not we're not the press. We're we're curious about you.

and you're sorry, but I won't lie. I was initially intrigued by the idea of these high profile, controversial celebrity cases. That's the hook. Pop culture icons, yeah, of course. You can't help yourself. Temples of American culture, these sets. Marilyn Monroe and Robert Kennedy, Natalie Wood. That was the hook, but then...

And even the idea of him being like a media hound, know, the headlines that I'd seen, like that's to me was like what was worth making a documentary about. However, you know, the filmmaking process has been over 10 years and through that process. wow. So looking back, I realized like how naive I was because sure, that's the hook. I think it still is for audiences. But but the story is about the man and the man himself and his integrity.

you know, who he is is so much more interesting than any of these like individual cases, like who he is and the fact that he was there through all of this. And you had mentioned that, you know, he's a seat. He he represents a scene in your documentary. think Dr. Noguchi is a character in like all of these huge cases. He's a character in Marilyn Monroe. He's a character in Robert Kennedy, Natalie Wood, you know, William Holden. But but but this is his he's the star of this film.

That's so interesting. Also similar to my doc, I'm in the midst of, rounding the corner, we're close. I feel so good, you know, but I'm discovering. Yeah, I'm so excited. The discovery of, as you're putting it together and rounding the corner in the edit, the discovery of like the fact that, okay, we have all these kind of like pop culture, like these iconic moments that you think it's really gonna be about in the forefront, but then quickly I discovered.

That is the total backdrop of like what makes this movie, our movie go is in probably most good films is the everyday life of these characters. It's almost like when they're shooting the shit arguing about the sandwich is good or not and Nate and Al's is way more interesting and satisfying than who killed Marilyn Monroe, which is like good news. First of all, as far as if you're the filmmaker with like, you know, felt behind the camera, but it's just a kind of a mind trip. Sometimes it's almost like it gets you there. That, that, that easy kind of.

stuff as a close on that gets you there and gets you in. But then you realize, man, what do call it? It's not the thing you thought it would be about us. It's this over here. It's always kind of surprising. Totally. And to that point too, it's like, yeah, the seemingly mundane can be so very interesting for people that are on the outside. you know, like the world of these public servants, and I know PIs are a bit different, but the public service of, you know, a coroner or a medical examiner, they deal with tragedy every day. And, you know, they,

It's just like it's sort of surreal and bizarre being like going to like these national medical examiner conferences and, you know, sitting at the having breakfast, you continental breakfast as they're like talking about these autopsy cases is just completely normal for them. But for people who aren't used to seeing that or talking about it all the time, it's like super fascinating. It's like being a doctor, too, I guess, rather just used to being around death. But they have to. The bedside manner is what's interesting as far as they're just, you know.

They're not like completely thrown about by the idea of death because they see it every day. 10 years? you say you it? You were filming this for 10 years? Yep, that's right. Yep. 10 years. And you know, I don't recommend that to everybody, but for our case, was, yeah, there were a lot of challenges involved in a, figuring out like what this story was and then like,

personal obstacles, both for me and for Dr. Noguchi. So during the course of filming this, and you know, this is a film that deals with death, in a lot of ways, I think, and from a lot of different angles. through the course of filming, there were two very important deaths in the film that I think impacted the filmmaking greatly. One was, of course, the death of Dr. Noguchi's wife, Hisako, who

You know, she was his biggest advocate, his biggest supporter, his fighter, really. And she passed away just a couple of years into the filmmaking. you know, of course, that made it difficult for us to be following Dr. Noguchi around and whatnot. But he didn't want to talk about her death, not only to us, he didn't want to talk about her death to anybody, to friends. And then when I did start going with him to, you know...

filming more and going with them to these conventions, people, and I caught this on film and it made it into the film. Someone asks him, how's your wife? And he says, I didn't want to talk about her. Unfortunately, she passed away. She had Parkinson's and all of these other things. And I didn't want to tell anybody because every time I talk about her, I start crying. Dr. Noguchi has a lot of pride and he's a man of science and he was often, presents the medical facts and findings and

talking about something so personal that makes him so vulnerable, I think was difficult for him. And for us to capture it sort of in that verite, I think makes it very real. And I think it allows for us to see the contrast of how he had to deal with these high profile public death investigations to the press, on mic, on camera, to the news, versus how he couldn't even talk about his own personal death that he experienced. And that was, you know,

That greatly impacted the story that we were telling and sort of finding that juxtaposition. But then also one other death, the death of my brother, my little brother. He committed suicide during the course of me filming this project. Thank you. And for me, that was also a big turning point. had to put a pause on making the film because it dealt so much and so directly with death. then knowing that my own brother had to go through an autopsy process.

It was just a challenge for me. And then when I did come back to the film, I came back with a new perspective. And that was the perspective of a grieving family member. And at that moment, I decided, OK, the film that I'm making, the film that we're presenting, is a film that is going to treat all of these cases as people and with dignity and respect. And that's why

That's why even though I have so much archival and, you know, access to footage of the autopsy process, that's why we don't, we don't show any of that. You know, you see feet and you see inside the cold crypt, but we don't need to, we don't need to show the audience something that they can never unsee. And I wanted to make something that say, say a family member of one of, you know, these, these high profile individuals were to see this film. I want it to be something that they could see that isn't like,

triggering or traumatizing. So both of those deaths really, really changed the course of the film and what we see today in different ways. Thank you for sharing. Mortality, death, it's been in the air for me. Like, the past few episodes have been about this and I wonder, obviously, yeah, I wonder if his whole concern is death, you know, he's getting to be older and he's like, what can I do to secure my legacy, you know, and it's like, because he's scared of death.

But anyways, it's been on my mind quite a bit because of that, but also, you know, it's a thing that we all can relate to the existentialism. 100%. And the mortality of it all. mean, even just my mother dying at age when I was 21 or I just turned 22, you know, it was a huge shaping moment for me, you know, like the death of my mother. And I love that you shared that your brother's story with me. And I love that you took that and applied it to your art. That is a fucking great thing. Like that's like,

It just gives me like inspiration, you know, and it's just such a nice reminder of like how to turn, you know, struggle or lack for lack for a better word into just something good, you know, and taking that and using it. Silver lining and like your film does have, it's not like a paint by numbers kind of a, this is what happened. Okay, thanks for coming. You know, it does have like a heart to it. does have this, I didn't, I watched it once. So didn't really pick up on.

I see it now that you say this, but I didn't pick up on that kind of juxtaposition of Noguchi, you know, with like him, you know, in the public life, looking at other people's deaths and doing his job versus, you know, his wife, his wife's death and being closed off with that. But that is, I see that now. And it is such an interesting kind of, it's like, it's personal to him. What's more personal than that? Talk about the sensitivities. And you did a little bit, talk about like navigating the sensitivities of doing a doc like this, you know, protecting.

I guess, Noguchi's image and not being sensational about things. But then also you had mentioned, you know, not showing too much grotesque, like, you know, insensitive material in the film. What else did you have to kind of like tread lightly with? Yeah, there, I mean, there was certainly a lot to be sensitive about. I mean, Dr. Noguchi spent his life and career in the spotlight, but really because he had to, you know, he...

He was handpicked to perform the autopsy of Marilyn Monroe because he was the best among his peers. And then that really propelled his career and advanced him to the role of the chief medical examiner coroner or coroner to the stars. you have to remember that this was during a period from the 1960s through the 1980s when he was really holding that position of power in that office. And he was the highest ranking Asian American public official in Los Angeles at that time.

So that, you know, that's worth noting as far as the sensitivities go, you know, the sensitivities, I would say first and foremost, and we did talk about a little bit, the fact that we are dealing with death and these cases and, you know, navigating filming in a place like the Los Angeles County Coroner's Office, you know, how we can film what we can show, you know, like, for instance, that, you know, they did not want us to once we got permission to film in there, it's like, okay, but we can't see anybody's

tattoos or no birthmarks or anything like that. yeah, just nothing that would be like distinguishing characteristics of anybody. So that was a certain, you know, sensitivity there. the sensitivity of Dr. Noguchi's reputation, I think is, is a big one and one that that is very important to him. he, after he was, he had two major trials, one in 1969 against the board of

supervisors. And he overcame that trial and he avoided being demoted, avoided being fired. Now later in 1982, after the one, two, three punch, call it these three deaths that happened over this period of six months of William Holden, Natalie Wood and John Belushi, know, that raised the, know, Frank Sinatra got upset that Dr. Noguchi was quote, you know, tarnishing these

the legacies of these well-respected Hollywood individuals. He was always mad at that, at around that time it seemed like. Exactly, exactly. So then, you know, ultimately he was fired after that, but then he went on to continue to, you know, pursue his career and push, elevate forensic sciences and bring communities together and start different organizations like the National Association of Medical Examiners and the World Association of Medical Law. But this is...

This is all to say that Dr. Noguchi had a very public firing and his reputation, you know, was cast out there as being, you know, this media hound because voices like Frank Sinatra's are powerful. And when they say that Dr. Noguchi is doing this, his Frank Sinatra's voice is going to carry a lot more weight, even though Dr. Noguchi was technically just doing his job. So the sensitivities were really around like,

Being able to talk about these ideas and ask these questions, was Dr. Noguchi seeking his own fame? Did he like being famous? Did he enjoy the spotlight? Like as a filmmaker, I felt like it was important to address these criticisms, but I also wanted to do it in a way that I wasn't hiding anything from Dr. Noguchi, right? Like he knew that I was talking to people. He knew I would ask him about these criticisms and...

you know, but what was challenging was finding anybody who would say a negative word about Dr. Noguchi. Was that a reflection of just his, his good reputation, his solid reputation? Yeah, exactly. And I think, I think that was evident by the fact that, you know, after he was fired, he continued to dedicate his life to, forensic sciences and the medical legal community. So, but you know, we had to address the criticisms and I like asking questions. I want the audience to, to ask themselves like,

Did he enjoy this? he relish in the attention? I have my own opinion, but it's really up to the audience to decide. And there's this one moment in the film, there's this folk song that was written by this artist named Frank. And it is a highly critical, critical song of Dr. Noguchi. And we did license the song and included it in the film. And Frank's going to be at the premiere, which I'm excited about.

And then the closest thing to another voice that we found that would actually, was actually critical of Dr. Noguchi was a former CNN reporter who was covering the Dr. Noguchi trials in the early eighties. And he offered that perspective of the media. And he, think raises a lot of these questions like, did Dr. Noguchi like that there was a whole television show made around the coroner's office, Quincy and me, and did then that television show start to

start to influence the way that Dr. Noguchi behaved, right? Like these are really interesting themes. I agree. The aspect of that, I didn't expect it, but it is like the question of like, did, did Noguchi, uh, enjoy this attention? Because you can't tell based on like the reactions and like his, just, he had such a hard face to read as far as what, you know, that, that, that notion, are you enjoying this or not? That is, that, was a good call. And also the fact that they film Quincy MD in, in the actual, uh, the same space that he worked, that Noguchi worked in.

pretty cool. Well, so what is your opinion? Do you think he enjoyed the attention? think I have come to the conclusion that did not did Dr. Noguchi have an ego? Yes, a healthy ego that is needed to be in the position that he was in, to be in the position where you can stand in as the speaker of the dead and to explain these cases. I think you need some healthy ego to be able to answer

such questions and especially answer such questions to people working in the news and the media. So I think he had a healthy ego, but do I think he went out of his way to elevate himself because of these celebrity cases that he oversaw? I do not. I do not because I don't think he would have continued to pursue and dedicate his life to, you know, pushing the boundaries of forensics if he were only in it for himself.

Speaker of the Dead, that's a good title too. mean, Corner of the Stars, you can't not use that one. I couldn't not use it. I think Speaker of the Dead was one that came up at one point, when you're given a nickname and we really had no choice. The choice was do we call it Corner to the Stars or Corner of the Stars ultimately became the final question.

I've had the same idea. What's this again? What is his title called again? What's his fancy title? Coroner of or to. So I guess some people had issues with there being one coroner designated for these big deaths, right? That was it. People were hung up on like, why is there some designated person? Why is there a coroner to the stars? Was that the issue? I think there were several issues, but like,

The thing about the position of the Chief Medical Examiner Coroner in Los Angeles County is that you are overseeing a huge department. mean, the amount of cases and deaths in Los Angeles County, it's unlike anywhere else. And on top of that, this is where a lot of famous people live, arguably most famous people live, and when they die, you know,

they go to the same place that anybody else would go if they die suddenly and unexpectedly. So that makes the role even more challenging. I think what a lot of people might find surprising is just how political this role then becomes. You have the five members of the board of supervisors that oversee all of Los Angeles County. And these are appointed officials who really allocate their budgets to all of the

the many, different departments in LA County, which is massive. So really the success of the coroner, chief medical examiner coroner and the whole office really depends on how willing the board of supervisors are to cooperate with the department and meet the department's needs. And it has seemed historically from before Dr. Noguchi and then certainly after Dr. Noguchi,

that it's always been a challenge to navigate this relationship between the office of the medical examiner coroner of Los Angeles County and the board of supervisors who oversee the budgets. need a lot of money, you need a lot of doctors and medical examiners, coroners to perform the needs. if those needs aren't being met, bodies cases become backlogged and bodies literally start to pile up.

And then you have a PR disaster, you have a nightmare situation on your hands because you have loved ones who are upset and understandably so because their loved ones are not having their death examinations completed and they don't have the answers they need. So there are a lot of challenges, but then like add to that the fact that we have celebrity deaths happening here and somebody has to answer like what happened and why.

And the way that that the way that that has changed to over the decades is, think, like remarkable and really something that we don't get into in the film. But just how do you think that's changed over the years? That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so in the early on, you know, I really use the film as I really try to set up the idea that the death of Marilyn Monroe, that ignites our our meaning our society's like obsession or parasocial relationship with these celebrities. Right. Marilyn Monroe.

dies. It's news everywhere. She is 36 years old. She is famous, seemingly has everything, fame, fortune. then when it is revealed after her both physical autopsy and her psychological autopsy, which was sort of new at that time, where they really go into the person's relationship and their life circumstances to

help determine what might have led to their tragic event. The results were found that this was probable suicide from the injection of barbiturate sleeping pills. And I think it was very, I imagine not being there, but it was difficult for the public to accept that somebody who had so much could make the decision to take their own life.

Then if you jump forward through the years, right, we have the tabloid culture of the sort of late seventies and early eighties. And at this time, the role of the chief medical examiner coroner was the person to answer the questions from the press about how this person died. Now today we have what's called a chief information officer, which basically acts as like a press secretary for the president. But this person who

is trained to deal with answering these questions from the press. But back in the time of Dr. Noguchi, it was him. So he had to answer these questions. And oftentimes, these questions come before the investigations are complete. So they might not have all of the answers at the time that these questions are being thrown at them. And that makes it all the more challenging to deal with the public and to deal with the press. But if you then fast forward further to where we are today,

There is absolutely no patience from the public. If somebody dies, if a celebrity dies, within moments, hours, or less, it will be on Twitter. Something will be leaked. The entitlement that the society can have as far as like, they need to know. They need to know now. It's wild. There's no patience. I think it's actually...

I think it's quite harmful both to, well, really to, the families of these individuals, because when, you know, if TMZ photos are leaked and, you know, something is out there that so-and-so died and this is why, we don't know that until after the coroner medical examiner has performed the, the autopsy and provided an autopsy report. And if the public doesn't have the answers yet, they are going to make something up. They're going to fill in the blanks. And that is

I argue is very harmful and hurtful for that individual's family. I think that's sort of you know, sort of lily padding on the evolution of how this information gets out there. But at the end of the day, like we need to provide that time for the medical examiner to do their work.

One more question about Maryland. So when I was going through Noguchi, Maryland stuff online, I found this Spectrum News

interview that he did like three years ago, maybe four years ago, something like that. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Yeah. I vaguely remember that one. Yeah. She's basically asking him, the way they entered, at least the way they edit it, the way they presented it. It seems like he's like, he he says that the Marilyn Monroe case should be reopened just because a lot of people are interested just to have like satisfy the curiosity. But he said it's possible that it wasn't a suicide.

And I wonder if it's just edited this way. I don't think that spectrum would edit in an untruthful way. Yeah, no, I can't really, I can't really speak much to that. I, I'm not too familiar with the details of that clip. I would, I think Dr. Noguchi has at least my experience with him. He's always been open to people questioning his findings or like reopening a case because, you know, he tends to stand by his reports. Certainly for something like Marilyn Monroe.

there have been many advances in DNA and forensic technology since that case. So I could understand why he would be open to maybe utilizing some of the technologies that exist today that didn't, you know, back in 1967. guess so, yeah. I mean, it's just people would just do, people would want to believe that the fish is bigger, you know, that that is just some mythic, like crazy story. Aside from just even

The rest of it. It's like they just want to have that juicy story. she was killed. I know it. It's like, but you don't know it. Exactly. That's and that's back to that point of like the, you know, the public is going to fill in the blanks, right? Like we, we, we want the, we want these things to be so much more interesting than they are. We want there to have been some big feud between Robert Wagner and Christopher Walken and

and Natalie Wood, and maybe they did have an argument, but at the end of the day, she slipped, she fell, she tried to get back onto the dinghy, and she was wearing a down jacket that held her down and was completely wet and prevented her from being able to get back up. And she had alcohol in her system.

But certainly, mean, there are whole documentaries made about these individual cases and looking at the different angles and different possibilities or going into sort of the conspiracy or the sensationalism of it all. But really with this doc, we really tried to like root it in the autopsy report. What does this, what did Dr. Noguchi say about this case?

Anything else about the documentary itself that you want to talk about? Any notable kind of moments filming it or putting it together, editing it? the other thing I would say

I would be remiss not to say is that. So my co-director, my editor, Kata Adino, he, he really helped bring a perspective, that I could not bring. And it was that of, Dr. Noguchi being, a Japanese American. It's a huge part of the story because Dr. Noguchi at the time that he rose, to his, you position, it was incredibly difficult for somebody that was, Japanese to do so. Cause you know, he moved to the state seven years after.

the war. And really like through archival research, I found a letter that George Takei had written to the board of supervisors. And he was outraged that the board was trying to fire Dr. Noguchi. And George really rallied the support of the Japanese American community and helped develop this organization called Just the Japanese United in Search for Truth in the case against Dr. Noguchi. really through the support of the Japanese American community, Dr. Noguchi was over

able to overcome that first trial. And really, it's just a huge part of his story. And I'm very grateful to my editor and directing partner to have really brought an authentic sense element to that filmmaking, because he is Japanese himself. How did he come on board? How did that look? Keita had done, edited some other wonderful documentaries like Kusama, Infinity. And he had been a part of other big projects that

you know, or specifically deal with Japanese issues and narratives as well. He did like Tokyo vice on HBO. And so we really like saw Kada out where we knew that if he could, you know, take a look at the material, we thought like he was our guy because he, he's just a great storyteller. No. Yeah. I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. I just did an interview with, we put it out two weeks ago, I think with Tad Nakamura. His dad was, Robert Nakamura.

who was the Asian American godfather of media. Yeah, yeah. The Sundance documentary. Yeah. And anyway, we spoke a lot about just, I'm not sitting here thinking about that because I never experienced that, but then it makes you, you pause. It's like, man, yeah, Japanese Americans had it fucking tough a little bit. Of course, you know, after World War II and stuff. And it makes me think, going back to your documentary and Noguchi himself, how kind of cool that he, seven years after the war,

Well, guess was it seven years after the war that he moved here that he got the job that he moved. Yeah. Yeah. But either way, like shortly after he was appointed as a the coroner status. So who hired him? Do you know who made that decision? You think? Well, you know, he applied to over 200 hospitals and universities for an internship and he only got accepted to two. One was at John Hopkins and one was at the Orange County General Hospital. And he took that Orange County job. And then he really, he really took to

forensics and I think it was difficult for Dr. Noguchi to adjust in a lot of ways, but you the thing is when you're working on as a medical examiner coroner, you know, we had discussed bedside manner earlier. Well, you don't, your patient isn't speaking to you, so you can just focus on the science. So he really took to, he took to forensics and started working in the LA County coroner's office under Dr. Theodore J. Kerfy. Dr. Kerfy, you know, hand appointed him because

Dr. Noguchi was the best. Nice, good for him. You said you fell in love with documentaries. I you said something like that, which I can relate to. Talk about that moment that you fell in love with documentary, the time where you're like, my God, this is it for me. You're kind of origin story as a filmmaker and as a documentary filmmaker specifically. Tell me something about that. What's your fondest memory? It's documentaries, but it's also nonfiction. And if I were really to date it, I would probably go back to

like listening to early, early episodes of This American Life. I think I've been listening to This American Life since like episode one, right? Like I was very early on to the podcasting. I was listening to podcasts before like The Word existed. And I just always found the truth to be more interesting than fiction. And I think because of that, for me, like if I am going to

whether it's reading or like watching fiction, it usually needs to be like high sci-fi or, you know, fantasy or something that is like very far. Just because I find that I find our, you know, day to day lives as human beings here on this beautiful planet to be so very interesting. It's crazy what's going on in the world right now. These characters out there, you can't write anything better. What is crazy. But then when I started actually watching,

A lot of docs, I, you know, I, fell in, I fell in love with Errol Morris and, you know, I've always enjoyed history. So, you know, I can, Burns, maybe these are not exciting, or surprising answers, but, but, know, like the unknown known is incredible to me to like really be charmed by this person that is, hold so much power that, that over the entire globe.

And what that entailed and really like the way in which Errol Morris is able to really get these human responses from people and really get to the core of who they are. I respect a lot. And the way that Ken Burns utilizes letters and deep, deep, deep research to come to understand like what was going through people's heads at the time. And in our documentary, we...

utilize letters. We only end up using two, but there were so many, I had so many letters and the letters are really where I would get the best sense of who Dr. Noguchi was or like who his wife Hisako was by what they would write, you know, their deep thoughts. You got to be thorough with that stuff. It's hard to make that stuff sexy, you know, if you will. so hard. So hard. It's so hard to use letters in a documentary and I think that it can get so

boring. Yeah, and it's like, how do you how do you activate that without, you know, I guess you could do animation. There's a whole bunch of things you can do. But yeah, mean, letters are letters are not sexy, but they're so, so helpful to understanding who your characters are. And I find Kim Burns is really good at that archival, like lifting it up and leveling leveling it up in ways that I would never have thought of what any specific Aero Morris or Ken Burns films. Yeah, I mean, I.

I enjoy tabloid quite a bit from aero morris. mean, I think I think that that central character is just one of a kind and so unique. I find Dr. Noguchi to also be similar in that regard, even though they're very different stories, very different people. But the but there's also that question with that character of like, did they did they really crave this attention? Crave the spotlight? I think for the case of tabloid, film like certainly that.

the lead woman in that film certainly craved that attention. And I think the question still remains with Dr. Noguchi, but yeah, I love tabloid. And again, I love the unknown known. think I've always loved the thin blue line. That one was big for documentary, wasn't it? Oh yeah. Is it the first kind of reenactment one where they use reenactments? I'm not sure if it is the first, it's certainly the first to.

And you know, and another reason why I love that, you know, and there's that connection because even though I think corner to the stars is not true crime, I think people that do like true crime will enjoy it because it, you know, it's sort of adjacent. You know, we tap into all these different cases that have mystery or intrigue. And the archival footage to just go in fucking time travel, man, of like documentary where it's like you go, you know, film in general, but you know, you're like when you cut to these archival footage of like

various periods, various eras. It just grabs you. Seeing the Sharon Tate footage, like, my gosh, seeing them walking through the gate and all this, it's like, my, there's the footage. And Dr. Noguchi was wearing, somebody asked me the other day based upon that footage, why was he wearing a white suit? So Dr. Noguchi was wearing this, it's actually cream suit to these horrific.

crime scene, right? Of the Tate murders. And so in all of the photos that you see, the black and white photos or the footage, like Dr. Noguchi like jumps out of the camera because of this like white suit in the black and white photos. It's very white. So I had never asked him about that. I never thought to ask him in all of the years of working on this. So I was having dinner with him the other night and I said, Dr. Noguchi, you know, somebody, somebody mentioned to me that you're wearing this, the white suit to Sharon Tate's.

What was up with that white suit? And he, he said, yes, actually the suit was not white. It's cream. And I wore it because it was summertime and wearing a light suit is less hot than a dark suit. And I'm like, okay. Well, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Okay. All right. You're practical. People are making a big deal about it. Talk about the fact that you're gonna Dr. Noguchi is going to be at the premiere tomorrow, right?

Yes. Yes. does that mean for you? that's got to be kind of surreal. don't even know what, what, what, what is the emotion for you there? Like as far as 10 years into the making with this film and like his whole life, he's 98 now. How does that make you feel? It's huge. It's huge. And it is for me, it is, it was meant to be, I think for, as long as this journey has been, um, you know, once I heard that, that, that slam dance was moving from park city to, uh, Los Angeles.

I just felt it like that, okay, we've got to finish. And this was about nine months before that the news dropped about nine months ago. And I knew that, yeah, we, this is where we need to premiere. need, this film needs to premiere in Los Angeles so that we can have not, not only so that we could have Dr. Noguchi and George Takei and Supervisor Hahn and others that were involved in the film there, but because Los Angeles.

itself is a character in this film and to be able to premiere it in Hollywood with a red carpet with Dr. Noguchi there. mean, like the, the situational irony is not lost on me that the corner to the stars who was accused of chasing his own spotlight and seeking his own fame will be on the red carpet at the premiere of a movie that he stars in. there is this like meta

a side to it that I love that, you know, if the filmmaking were to continue, like, of course, this would be a scene in the film. Like, this would probably be the final scene in the film, right? But the other thing is just that, you know, to your point, Dr. Noguchi is 98 years old. And for me, him being able to be at the movie by being a master of death, and master's maybe not the word, but rather an expert in death,

it makes them an expert in life and in living, right? And in living healthily and in knowing what to avoid so that you can live a long life and you don't die early or prematurely. so, but there was always that worry that I had, man, are we gonna, you know, I had trouble sleeping. we gonna, am I gonna wake up tomorrow with a phone call that Dr. Noguchi is no longer with us? And then, you know, that of course changes what, how we present the film. And I just love the fact that

the film ends and you know, not to give anything away, but I don't think this is, but it's a triumphant story. I hope we're not ending the film with some, you know, cut to, you know, fade to black. Dr. Noguchi passed away on such and such date. You know, no, Dr. Noguchi is 98. He is living and the film ends and he is there at the premiere. This is, this is the way it was meant to be. It's awesome. How is he, how is he holding up? I mean, is he,

in pretty good shape. He's great. He's great. He has wonderful people in his life that are there to help him with food and whatnot. up until really toward the end of last year, so October of last year, he had no extra help at all. And he was just living all on his own in his house. And even to this day at 98, he

He sleeps up in his bedroom that is upstairs. He walks up and down the stairs every day at 98. as far as, you know, obviously at that age, your body is in decline, but Dr. Noguchi, will say that mentally he has all of his facilities. I had a 45 minute conversation with him the night before last. Like he is...

He's 100 % there. He's a little slower than he used to be, but he's excited. He can't wait to watch the film with an audience. You know, I was telling you that we have a 100 year old character in our documentary and this dude's so sharp. I love him so much because he reminds me to quit thinking I'm so damn old. he has a quote in the film and he says, life is for living. You know, it's like, man, that's so rad. Slam dance moving to LA.

I'm so happy about this because we need a solid, we need the festival, the LA festival. And I think Slamdance could be that. I think, I hope that we can premiere possibly LA, you know, I think it would be a great fit for that next year. Cause Santa Barbara is also, it's been good to me. And I think that's a great festival and it's been kind of an, you know, an LA adjacent festival. Celebrities love it, but also, you know, international documentary. They put on a lot of good stuff.

But it's like, it's not LA, it's Santa Barbara. Like where the fuck has the LA Festival been? And of course LA Film Festival was a thing, it was kind of came and went. AFI is not, it's in LA, but it doesn't feel like the LA Festival. AFI feels kind of like a market. You know, we had Outfest, which I used to love Outfest, you know, but Outfest is now no longer. And of course that's, you know, your LGBT Fest. But I really did enjoy.

LAFF, LA Film Fest, and a lot of the people that organize that through Film Independent. But you're right, there was definitely a vacancy for a big festival here in LA. And the fact that Slamdance already has 30 years under its belt, I think really helps for them to come to LA and to fill that void with having a reputation of their own already as being bold and independent. And I think it's a perfect fit for us and for Dr. Noguchi because

Dr. Noguchi is bold and independent. So it made a lot of sense to premiere here for really the ethos of the festival in addition to it, obviously. And they also got, I think it's so smart and such a timely move by the slam dance people. It's so cool. And also let's remember, like slam dance put on Christopher Nolan and the Sean Baker's of the world, you know, before Sundance and et cetera did. They're dope. Good for them. You know, and it's good to have the Pepsi and the Coke, you know what I mean? Absolutely. Absolutely.

So congratulations on your premiere and thank you for sharing your movie with me. I appreciate it. Give me your filmmaking advice. If you can go back in time to your old self, what would you tell yourself? Make something that, or when you're making something, see if you can find the inspiration in that. Find the inspiration in the work and find the inspiration in the story because there were times when this felt so difficult, so impossible to make. working on something over such a long period of time, have,

collaborators that come and go and, and you really, it can be really easy to lose like confidence and faith in yourself. and in those dark moments, if, if you're working on something and the story itself inspires you to continue, then I think that is a good thing and can be a very helpful tool. I certainly like turn to the thing that I was working on and Dr. Noguchi story and what he went through and the fact that he didn't give up.

as a way to keep me going when I wanted to give up.