E51 • Making An AI Feature in 6 Days (On No Sleep) • YIWEN CAO, dir. of ‘What’s Next?’ at Berlinale

In this conversation, Yiwen Cao discusses her groundbreaking AI-generated film 'What's Next?’, which premiered at the 2025 Berlin Film Festival. Although past films about AI are discussed, including “Her”, “A.I.”, “Ex Machina”, and “The Matrix”, Yiwen’s favorite movie is Billy Wilder’s 1959 comedy/musical “Some Like It Hot”.

She shares insights into the creative process, including making the film over six and a half days on no sleep, the themes of the film, and the role of AI in filmmaking, emphasizing the importance of social commentary in her work.

Yiwen reflects on the audience's reception of AI films, addresses the future of AI in the film industry, and offers advice for aspiring filmmakers.

Like, subscribe and follow us on our socials @pastpresentfeature

Chapters

• 0:01 Past Present Feature, Hosted by Marcus Mizelle
• 0:20 Presented by Valerion Projectors
• 1:01 Yiwen Cao, dir. of "What's Next?" at Berlinale

Transcript

Marcus Mizelle (01:01)
In this conversation, Yawen Chow discusses her groundbreaking AI-generated film, What's Next, which just premiered at the 2025 Berlin Film Festival. Although past films about AI are discussed, including Her, Ex Machina, and The Matrix, Yawen's favorite movie is Billy Wilder's 1959 comedy musical,

Some like it hot. including making the film over six and a half days on no sleep, the themes of her film, and the role of AI in filmmaking, emphasizing the importance of social commentary in her own work. Yao Wen reflects on the audience's reception of AI films, the future of AI in the film industry, and offers advice for aspiring filmmakers.

Marcus Mizelle (01:42)
So Berlin, is this your biggest premiere to date so far for you and your filmmaking career? yes, yes. Okay, so well I'd be nervous too, yeah. But also, are you nervous because of how it's going to go? I'm worried about the audience reaction. Fair enough. Well you got into Berlin, so I mean it's gotta be a good movie. Well I guess it's one of those things where you never know which audience you're gonna get, what type of audience you're gonna get.

Especially for AI feature. It's a new type. is so fascinating. That's the most fascinating thing about, at least so far for me when interviewing you, I was excited to talk about this. So an AI artificial intelligence created feature film. Can you tell me about this? Okay, so I will make a short introduction about this film. So this film has no dialogue, but full of imagination and symbols.

It will take you back to the super-Asian time, like three billions of years ago on the Earth's planet, and then back to now to understand the incredible past and the present of human beings. So no matter you will regard it as a fairy tale or a prophecy, I want audience to work together to realize the human's destiny. Wow.

I'm gonna read the synopsis. Your film is called What's Next? Yeah, What's Next? It's a question and it's also an answer. Wow, love this. Okay, so it begins as a paradisical visual state. Soft images full of sweetness figures luxury and quiche landscapes with psychedelic dancing vegetables until the AI-generated images begin to show their teeth. They drift into dark dystopias filled with male demons. In her montage of cliches, director E1 allows whatever's...

being addressed, whether gender, the environment of capitalism, to run hot and critical terms. The film confronts the audience with congealed visual statistics of its own visual expectations and takes them to their logical consequence. Dark depths don't just yone forth in the glitches in how the AI images are displayed. The hideous face of evil hallucinated by machines and the pseudo-realism of human suffering makes the limits of our imagination visible while the human machine loop circulates ever quickly.

and then an opulent ride through hell that carries us from the world we do inhabit together towards images of the world we collectively have produced. There's no overlooking the need to escape this flow in order to grapple with the question the title has raised. What's next? What is next? Is this what's next? Your film is kind of, uses your guess as to what's next for us? Actually, what's next is open ending.

I just leave this question to my audience and of course I want to make a series of films. What compelled you to make this movie? I mean, this is an obvious question, but like what made you make this movie, you know? I mean, so I have so many questions, but that will start with that one. Like what was your motivation to make this? That's a good question. And I can share you the process of making this film. Actually, I used the seven days to make this feature film. What's nice this last year.

and actually six days and a half because in the last half day I just laid on my chair and waiting the computer to output videos. And when I first sat on the chair and began to include order to AI generator, I was wondering how the universe overlooks the earth planet. And at that time I realized that there are many increases that are threatening humans future.

such as women's life dilemmas, capitalism traps, and environmental pollution like nuclear contaminated water releasing. And this crisis may not cause the severe consequences in several years, but they may influence like a thousand to 10,000 years range. And maybe some people will think that I'm worrying too much now, but I think that...

future generations' lives depend on what we do today. Thus, I decided to make a film to arise human consciousness of protecting the Earth's planet and humanity. Wow, so much to unpack in there. Wait, hold on. So did you say you made this film in six and a half days? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I hadn't slept for six nights.

You didn't sleep for six, so you didn't sleep at all during the making of this film? Yeah, yeah. That's so cool. I mean, well, it's not cool for your body, but it's cool that it's cool story. a cool story. Might even be a title somehow. How to make your film in six days without sleep. Did you get some naps in? Maybe short little naps from time to time. Wow. So, okay. So those six and a half days, like did you...

Tell me about those six and a half days of creating this film then. What do they consist of? What's like the big, you know, moments there? Actually, when I first sat on that chair and inputted the first order to the AI generator, I didn't have any script. But when I sat down on the chair, an outline just dropped in my mind. And I just keep inputting.

I just keep inputting orders from all the way and I may create more than 20,000 of short videos in six and a half days. And then I organize them to be a feature view. What was that first line that you put in, that first prompt into the AI generator? Very good question. Maybe I just input that about

human's crisis in future like how human will destroy ourselves in the end maybe. And I also input many, many others like how the universe overlooks the Earth's planet and how human's greed and selfishness will lead to severe consequences. Is this, I mean, to your knowledge, is this the first

feature film that's made with AI that's premiered at a major film festival? yeah, yeah I think so. It's kind of a big deal, I feel like. Thank you and I know that there are many people use AI ⁓ to make short videos, short. Yeah, so I mean there's so much to unpack here, there's so many ways we can go about it and I don't want to get too ahead of myself because I do want to ask you know just as far as the, let's just stay on your movie, the creation of your movie and then we'll talk about AI in general.

and stuff like that, as far as being a filmmaker and having AI as a tool, but also the polarization that AI has created already. Even right now with the brutalists, they're getting shit for using AI tools to enhance their Hungarian dialect. People are upset. it's like, from what I can understand, people just want to be upset about something. It's like, what are you mad about? They're just making it more authentic. What are you upset about? You know what I mean? That's my stance on it.

Anyways, before we get into kind of the ethics of AI in film, tell me more about the making of your film, What's Next? So tell me some kind of like highlights and lowlights, if there's any that come to mind during those six and a half days. what was like some, what was a big moment where you're like, uh oh, this is great? Is there anything like that for you that comes to mind? Actually, I think that I did this film pretty fluent. I just keep inputting orders.

and I had an outline from the beginning. Thus, I was just focusing on my task and my final goal is to making a film to arise human's consciousness of protecting humanity. And I also wanted to criticize some present social issues, just like...

women's life's dilemma. And some people say that they are impressed. They are very impressed by the creators at the beginning of the film because they look so fantastic, just like what happened in heaven. Yeah, and I think that will be great to attract kids' attention. That's good for AX development because it will...

draw attention from some young people. So you have this desire to explore and try to diagnose the world's issues, the world's big issues, right? Some people are like, oh, the sky is falling, oh, who cares? But it's like, well, maybe my kid, when he's my age, will care, you know? I I just interviewed these filmmakers yesterday about this documentary of these barrels of harmful chemicals that were

dumped off the coast of Los Angeles 50 years ago. And it's been affecting us ever since. And it's like, good to know. Thanks, guys. Thanks, whoever's responsible for that. And it's like out of sight, out of mind kind of thing, right? So anyways, the other direction to go in would be to say, hey, here are the big issues, right? Which it seems like that's your concern with this film. Let's talk about these themes. You're talking about capitalism. You're talking about everything, it seems like.

how are we harmful to ourselves and to the planet we're on? Would that be correct in saying? Yes. Actually, talked about a lot of things and that is because for my philosophy, I think that if you want bigness, you can get moderation. But if you want moderation at the first of beginning, you can only have a little.

Thus, I want to use AI technology to create a big world for filmmaking industry. And thus, that will stimulate more and more young directors and filmmakers to try AI. And so, let's talk about... I mean, how did you know when you had your film? You know, around the six-day mark. How did you know when you were like, okay, I think I have something here? Actually, because I did this film very fluent from one day.

⁓ to the last. Thus, I just create an abundance of short videos. Maybe they just have four seconds each. Yes, but in my mind, I know how to organize them all. So I did it pretty fluent. Okay, so structure was my next question as far as you were kind of structuring and placing it as you were going. Yeah. Got you, okay. After the six and a half day mark, you were like, you just exported it and then it was pretty much it.

And then you did some, right? And then you just did some polishing after that or was it it was it done done? Maybe I used four days to create the videos, four days and a half and the fifth days I organize them and the sixth day I should do music things. Oh, okay. Okay. Nice. That's great. So it still falls all within that six and a half day time frame.

So the first four days was really just getting the material and kind of also, you know, organizing in your head probably a little bit what could be, but then the fifth day, fourth and last half of the fourth day and fifth day, it was really just editing and organizing and placing the clips in certain order. And then the final day was sound, sound was adding music? Yeah, music and effects. Sound design? Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Thanks for the appreciation.

And I just, you know, I'm just visualizing it here. It's like, it's so cool. It's so cool. And also it's like the idea of, you know, it doesn't have to take forever to make something great. You know, it can be a lightning in a bottle, right? A lot of times it makes me think of like all these great scripts that I heard that were written over a weekend or a week, you know, like sex lives and videotape. I think he said he wrote it in like a week.

I don't know if that's true or not. Even like Home Alone, which is a very commercial film, but that movie was written over a weekend. ⁓ It's so fun to think about how you can capture lightning in the bottle. What was your plan after the film was done? What were you thinking and what ended up happening? Besides, of course, getting into Berlin now. Actually, I want to do a series of AI films and I'm preparing for more projects now.

Okay, got you. when the film was done, when What's Next was done, you then just fired it off to some festival submissions? yeah. Yes. What were the responses like from these festivals? Because I feel like some might have their nose up on an AI, fully AI created film. Actually, I think that Burning Nala is very brave because it needs courage to select an AI film. It's a brand new try.

But I think that festivals should face AI feature films one day. I agree. Berlin Now is very cool. They took it on. What was the initial reaction or email or phone call you got from Berlin Now? Can you share that? Actually, I received the email of invitation from Berlin Nanas Forum on the first day of this year, 2025. ⁓

That's a big surprise for me because I never thought that this film would be selected by one of three majors of festivals. And that's too new for me. Maybe I think they will select AI films next year or the next year, but not now. So I think that Berlin Nanas Forum is very brave and I feel very grateful for them. is very cool. It's very, very cool.

Anything else you want to talk about your film specifically? This is a unique situation where you created it, you wrote it, quote unquote shot it, gathered the materials if you will, and edited it, and did post sound on it all within a week, which is crazy. So there's really nothing else to talk about as far as how it was post production. We've already talked about everything. mean, it's mind blowing. Regarding emotional takeaway, where is the line between how much AI provides for that and how much the filmmaker yourself provided for that in this case?

Actually I put lots of energy and power in this AI film. I think the audience may feel it's emotional film. For example, I put some sad girls' images in this film, for example, to show women's life's dilemma. for those sad girls, I think these scenes are examples to show some social issues.

To be specific, it indicates that the society's theory of type gaze and expectations to women. And I want people to draw some attentions to girls in dilemmas. And I want people to reflect their recent lives and to think about how to enhance their life's quality and found their life's mission. Thus, I want to make this film.

Because AI is not choosing the themes in the topics at hand. You are, right? You're just putting prompts in to get the materials created from your intentions, I guess. So it's like you're still making the film. It's almost like, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's almost like putting prompts in for AI creation could be the same or similar placeholder for having a camera and going out and collecting the footage you need, the traditional way. Would you say it's kind of similar in a way?

Actually, think directors should always set the direction and we can regard AI as ⁓ important members of our crew. And AI is our best assistant to do things in a costly, effective way. But the main core is also about the social value and the opinion of humans. So I think that AI could be a very good assistant to help us

to do things at a cheaper price. And that will help the beginners to show their opinions to the world. That's a big chance. Yeah, because you're basically just ⁓ expediting the goal, the intention. As far as the polarization of AI, let's talk about that within the film community, within the world too. The polarization, people that are fearful of AI ⁓ or don't really like it. What are your thoughts on that? What would you tell those people?

Actually, I understand that some people may feel scared of AI and that's very understandable because some AI images look so like human and they also may fear that AI will take away their original jobs and change their present lifestyles. They don't want to change. But AI is not a unique thing in human's history and we are familiar with lifestyle changing, I think.

In the past, people experienced first and second industrial revolutions and every time technology changed our lifestyle. And yes, there are some old jobs may disappear because of AI, but it also will create new jobs. So we don't need to refuse new things. Opsidedly, we should keep being humble and embrace new technology.

and we should use this new technology to serve our lives or we will be abandoned by the new time. Yeah, so let's just handle AI to serve our lives. What a wonderful and succinct response. Thank you. Yeah, it reminds me of how even in the film industry, there's always been change every two decades to three decades, right? Where it's been, you know, off the top, you know, just like it was always kind of, it was more like kind of short films and little clips at first, you know, which is ironic because people are

complaining about people watching stuff on TikTok now. It's like, well, that's how it kind of started in a way. We're like these little Nickelodeons and clips, which I'm not promoting the TikTok watch. And then you had longer films and you had, course, do you have color before talkies or talkies before color? It was color and then it was talkies, right? Yeah. And then you had television, which disrupted it. And then you had home video, which disrupted it. And you had...

⁓ Of course streaming and then here's AI. So there's always been disruption. It's just a matter of sky is falling, sky is falling. But it's like everything seems to work out. So that's where my hope lies in that area where it's like, okay, it's just another tool. And I think the big thing is just, it's always the question of how are you emotionally engaging an audience for me? know, how you get there, not as important as just getting there in my opinion. Would you agree with that?

Actually, think that AI filmmaker has a tough task because audience are not used to watch this new technology and they may feel strange to AI movie. Thus, compared to traditional films, AI's audience may need a time to receive AI. But I think that's the only thing that will not change.

It's changing itself. We have to receive new things during the whole life or we will be abandoned by the time. We can't stop it. That's our trend. That's the other thing. You can't stop it. So why not embrace it and find the good in it, I guess. What's ⁓ like something that could be just kind of almost shocking to us now that could be going on in 10 years from now regarding

AI and people using it? Actually, I think that most of people are using AI in short videos like in TikTok. They will use AI for making some hilarious short videos to draw some fans, but people seldom use AI in feature films. AI has lots of potentials to do just like their AI voice.

and you can distinguish it at the first glance. So AI technology still has a long journey to go, but we should use AI to make ourselves more effective. Like we can use AI to write some paper. Maybe not the graduation paper, that's important, just some...

some paper issues in our daily life and that will free humans from the burden of work. I'm just looking up kind of movies, films about AI. Ex Machina, Her, AI, know, Steven Spielberg's AI, Terminator 2, The Matrix, Blade Runner. Like these are some of the most fascinating science fiction slash fantasy films that I can think of and now we are living in a movie.

almost, you we can see it coming to where it's like, my God, it's not some fantasy anymore. It's not fiction anymore. And so I guess it's just a matter of like, you know, are these films even going to be seen as science fiction 30 years from now? You know, or is it just going to be like, that's not fan, that's, you know, that's just like, what's going on now? anyways, my question for you is, do you like films about AI? Do you have any films that you've watched about AI? And also any other films that maybe have inspired you, not just

as a filmmaker, but also while creating this film. Actually, I think that AI film will not replace all film types. Actually, we can regard AI film as one of film types, just like romance, thriller, and suspense. So we just regard it as a little type of the filmmaking industry. And maybe it will draw some...

audience that like AI film and I believe that there always be audience that there will be always audience that don't like AI film. They want to watch real scenes and real people as that's very understandable. So let's just take this thing easy and regard AI as a little type of filmmaking. It reminds me of even just like people that were so hung up on not using digital video and just staying with film, you know, it's kind of similar. It's just lying in the sand, you know, that's like

this juxtaposition, this contrast of something you can hold in your hand versus something that is in the digital air. And it's like, again, what is your end result goal? That's where my brain goes. I think that's the key kind of ⁓ dramatic engine for a lot of these films about AI. It's like both sides of the coin. It's like the creator, that came out last year, I think, where it was like... ⁓

AI is the enemy or you can see it as your friend and it usually falls somewhere in between, right? You can't just generalize anything or anybody, you know. Anyways, question for you. Do you have any favorite films about AI? Actually, I haven't watched many films about AI because AI using in film industry, I think is still at the very beginning step. Okay. Do you have any favorite films? yes. I...

Actually, I have prepared a feminism suspense for more than seven years and I like that script very much. But I am still seeking for reliable partners about that suspense that will use real scenes and real actors. So I think that AI and real scene films, we can take both.

We don't need to use one to replace the other one. You're not planning on making just AI films. You're going to, still want to make some more AI films, but you also want to make films with traditionally. Exactly. Yeah. AI is just a type of film types. Okay. Any past films made by other filmmakers that had most inspired you? yes. I think that I like to watch the films in about 1970s American film.

So 1970s American films, what is it about that? I talked about this yesterday in the podcast. Is it because of like there was a lot of counterculture filmmaking? Little Guy versus the Man or what is it for you? Maybe in 1960s or 1970s. Oh, I remember the name. Some Like It Hot. Okay, Billy Wilder. I like that film. That's great film.

Yeah, that's so great. 1959 actually. 1956, thanks for telling me. No, for sure. I wasn't sure either, but it feels a little older than that, right? It feels ahead. It's probably very ahead of its time. I mean, essentially 1960. So Some Like It Hot, Billy Waters, Some Like It Hot. Is this one of your favorite films? Up to now, I think, because I think that it happened in 1959. But nowadays when you came back to watch it,

you will feel the core value is not out of fashion. That's the charming point of a classic film, and we should learn from it. And what do you think the values in this film were for you? what was it for you? know, anything else that you really gained from watching this film? Actually, I think that no matter what pattern you use, the core value which you want to convey to audience is the most important thing.

So we should always focus on story. Story is a fundamental thing of the whole filmmaking industry. Yeah, we should focus on story and focus on audience. That will lead us to have good interaction with audience. And audience will like our story and that's win-win mode. Do you remember the time you wanted to be a filmmaker? Was there a moment for you where you're like, I want to make films or did you just find yourself doing it?

Actually, I didn't study filmmaking related majors. So that time maybe should be nine or ten years ago. At that time, the interesting was that when I went to cinemas, I hadn't watched films that I liked. Thus, I felt bored about present films at that time. And I thought that maybe I can make some by myself.

So from that time I started to make short films and then I make films with using real scenes and real actors. But that cost a lot and it is a burden for a new beginner. Thus, I'm always looking for a new technology that can help new directors and new filmmakers to achieve their dreams for making a whole film.

there by using their own opinions. So I should be grateful for AI technology. It gave me a chance to express my opinions to the world and draw others' attention. This is such a special interview. This is so cool. I think it's so cool. What programs did you use to create your film? What AI platforms? Before AI film, actually maybe it's around six years ago, I created a romance suspense.

And at that time I was the screenwriter and a supporting actress. But also at that time I found that it's really hard for the screenwriter to find a director who can understand his or her script very well. Thus I decided to direct a film by myself. But you know that for new filmmakers, especially for new directors, it's very hard to find

investors to support you. Thus, I have to keep making money by doing other jobs. And also, I'm seeking for new technology that could help me achieve this dream. Yeah, this is exciting for young filmmakers for sure. ⁓ What about going back briefly, what programs did you use? what can you give us a little more detail as to like what how you created this film? And like, did you use Sora? Did you use

Open AI or what? I don't even know. I'm not even that versed. kind of played around like mid journey. But I don't, you know, it's it always fascinates me with what it spits out. But also it's frustrating because I'm like, oh, my prompt wasn't good enough. You know, so what did you use? And then also what what maybe might be some tips or tricks for filmmakers to use as far as prompts? What seems to work? Actually, I tried lots of platforms about AI.

And I even tried a live chat room to create short videos like it will create a short video that everyone in that chat room can see it. So I have to delete it right after it finishes to generate that short video. And in the end, found that to run away.

Actually, I made most of the from the runway in this film, What's Next, and sell them by using Discord. And I use SoundDraw to do the music part. But I'm still looking for new technology and new platforms to fit the style of the next film. I will use different platforms to fit in every different film style.

I don't just have one style. Is it good to be more detailed the better when you're putting in a prompt? Or what's a good technique, a general good technique when you're putting in a prompt for something you want? Actually, I believe that up to now there is not a perfect platform to satisfy every needs that a director needs. And every platform has its merits and inmerits.

such as like Runway can make short videos more clearly, but it may not understand Chinese logic. And some Chinese apps, can understand Chinese logic and create some Chinese figures, but maybe it doesn't have clear version. Yeah, it's pretty vague. So I think, and some...

platforms that will create music, but this music sounds too similar and you can distinguish it. It's an AI-created song at first glance. What makes it, what distinguishes it being AI to you? What are the of the telltale signs? Actually, I think that AI companies still have a long journey to go. I haven't found a perfect

platform up to now. I'm still keep trying and I will focus on new technology. Is it better to be more specific or less specific when you're putting in a prompt? I think that if you put orders that's not too specific, it's helping for creation. That's because according compared to the traditional screenwriter.

You have to shoot every line, every word in shooting scenes and you can't change something. But AI generator is very special. If you input some orders that not that clearly, AI maybe will give you some hints and that hints may help you to create more images that you have never thought before. So I think the interaction between human and AI generator is also very important.

That will help directors to be more creative. is your next approach? What would you do differently for your? What are you going to maybe do differently for your next AI film that you're going to make? For my next project, I may try different style of AI platforms. Like maybe I will choose to use some Chinese platform because it develops. It develops very fast recently, and this is just one year.

that I created What's Next? And you can see that AI technology, they just have developed very fast and very different from last year. So I'm still looking for the perfect apps that can fit my satisfaction. What are your hopes for distribution for What's Next? You know, after Berlin or even during Berlin hour, are you looking for a film sale as well? And it's so interesting to think about, you know, selling a film that's made with AI. Obviously you would own the rights to it.

But I wonder, is there any sort of rights owned by Runway or whatever platform you used? Or if it's not, because you, yeah, how does that work? If you shot on an Alexa camera, it's not like Alexa owns the movie, right? You're just using it as a tool to collect what you need. So would you say that's kind of more of what it is when you're using AI? Actually, firstly, for the distribution things, I think that will be better to let professional people to do.

professional things. So I will ask my friends and my partners help. Yeah, so I can tell you about the concrete staff nest, but I can make sure that I will keep exploring AI technology. And I think no matter just focus on the filmmaking industry, AI will influence our daily lives more and more. And I don't know whether you have ever heard about DeepSeek. DeepSeek? Yeah.

Yes, of course. just disrupted the US stock market two weeks ago. Tell me. Actually, deep sick is very popular in mainland China now. And even my mom and my uncles, they use deep sick. They use AI technology. And it is out of image that AI technology can improve our daily life so fast. So I think that AI has lots of potentials in...

feature film and both in our daily lives for using. How does DeepSeek influence daily lives? How is it being used by your parents and you? Actually, DeepSeek is somehow like chat GPT. You can input your questions and it will answer. But from my experience, I think that DeepSeek has a very unique part is that its answer is creative.

Maybe it will not bring you a formal answer, but it will be very creative, just like emotional human. That's the different part. As opposed to not naming names, Alexa. It reminds me of that, but I'm sure DeepSeek is much more intuitive. Okay, last question for you. If you were just starting out making films now, or even if you were just right before you were about to make this AI feature film, what have you learned since that you would go back and tell yourself to help yourself along?

I think that not only for myself, I want to tell young people and especially new beginners that we should keep being humble and keep learning because the big difference between human and AI is about our mindset. Thus, our human should keep hardworking and keep being humble, keep learning more and less we can dominate AI.

rather than let AI dominate our lives. So just be humble and keep learning and keep using AI to serve our industry and our daily lives.