E55 • How to Build a Nightmare, and the Art of Letting Go • Julia Max, dir. of ‘The Surrender’ Now on AMC+ following SXSW

Julia Max, director of “The Surrender”, which premiered at SXSW and is now streaming on AMC+, discusses her journey as a filmmaker, with past inspiration coming from Stanley Kubrick’s “The Shining”.

Julia shares insights into the horror genre, the importance of character development, and the challenges of navigating the filmmaking process. She emphasizes the significance of a supportive team, the role of women in film, and the impact of audience reception on future projects. 

Julia touches on her editing and casting process, and the importance of rehearsals, providing many valuable lessons for aspiring filmmakers.

Listen to all episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more, as well as at www.pastpresentfeature.com. Like, subscribe, and follow us on our socials @pastpresentfeature

Chapters

• 0:01 Past Present Feature, Hosted by Marcus Mizelle
• 0:20 Presented by Valerion Projectors
• 1:01 Julia Max, dir. of "The Surrender", now on AMC+ following SXSW

Transcript

Marcus Mizelle (01:02)
Julia Max, of The Surrender, which premiered at South by Southwest and is now streaming on AMC discusses her journey as a filmmaker, with past inspiration coming from Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. Julia shares insights into the horror genre, the importance of character development, and the challenges of navigating the filmmaking process.

She emphasizes the significance of a supportive team, the role of women in film, and the impact of audience reception on future Julia touches on her editing and casting process and the importance of rehearsals, providing many valuable lessons for aspiring filmmakers.

boy Luke is behind me and watching me record this. Say hey Luke.

Hi, I am Luke. I'm Mr. Bubba And we're real excited because we're about to film his sixth birthday movie soon. Every year for his birthday we make a movie and premiere it to all his friends at his birthday party. Hey Luke, tell them what we're going to do this year.

We're going to make what happened to Bob. And what kind of movie is it?

It's a detective movie with what happened to Bubba. Nice. dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun.

Marcus Mizelle (02:18)
going on? How is your day?

Julia Max (02:20)
How's going? Pretty good so far, can't complain. How about you?

Marcus Mizelle (02:25)
Pretty good, you know? And when I say pretty good, it's really not that good. It's been pretty annoying. I mean, but you know, it's great. ⁓ it's just boo hoo, wah wah. Just driving across LA traffic, LA street traffic to get my kid to school and back. I've been a little grumpy today, but you know, that's

Julia Max (02:34)
What's going on?

Ugh.

Marcus Mizelle (02:47)
So thank you for doing this. ⁓ Shudder, South By, your trailer just messed me up a little bit. ⁓ For The Surrender, directed by Julia Max.

Julia Max (02:57)
I'm

well thank you.

Marcus Mizelle (03:01)
Let me just read,

yeah, let me just read the synopsis really quick. Just, I don't want to forget that either. When the family patriarch dies, a grieving mother and daughter risk their lives to perform a brutal resurrection ritual and bring him back from the dead. And this trailer, the trailer is really nice. I think it's really nice and tight. And just, yeah, did you edit that? Well, well, collaborated. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Julia Max (03:21)
thank you. Spent a lot of time on that.

No, no, I mean we had an editor who was wonderful

and everything, but know, and Shutter got involved and like, was big, lots of input.

Marcus Mizelle (03:32)
Mmm, okay Got

you got you. No, it just seemed very nice and clean and tight and just like, you know, too like I don't know just good and Your actress don't tell me her Kobe minute. How do you say her name? Anife? men a fee Kobe men a fee Yeah. Yeah, where have I seen her? Where has she been?

Julia Max (03:46)
Minifee.

she's fantastic.

The boys is like the big thing that people know her from. Yeah, but she's been on a lot shows. ⁓ she's so wonderful. Love her.

Marcus Mizelle (03:55)
Oh yeah, yeah, that's it. Yep, that's what it is.

Nice,

nice. So ⁓ yeah, in the trailer, was just such a, ⁓ what's the word? Kind of like a, it just tightened and tightened. Like you could tell it was just like the screw was tightening as it went. And that last two or three shots, I'm like, what in the hell was that? What was that?

Julia Max (04:20)
I think that's always ⁓ one of the tricky things about creating the trailer is figuring out that balance of like how much to give audiences to entice them to come sing without giving everything away. You know, it's such a tricky one. And then so frequently you see these films where it's like the trailer is advertising one movie and you're like, my God, I'm so on board to see this. And then you see the movie and you're like, well, this had nothing to do.

Marcus Mizelle (04:30)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Julia Max (04:46)
with the trailer.

Marcus Mizelle (04:47)
Oh

wow. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The sales team was just like, we don't care. It's fine. We're just gonna sell this movie. That's funny.

Julia Max (04:51)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (04:54)
I have a little tiny little bio that I found on the South by Southwest website.

about you. ⁓ all I could find. Julia Max is an LA native who grew up on film sets and graduated from USC. And then her most recent short film, Pieces of Me, which is, sounds like an older bio or it's accurate. Okay. Her most, let me go back then. Her most recent short film, Pieces of Me, premiered at the, how do you say that? Boo-kion?

Julia Max (05:13)
That's accurate.

A Boochian, believe?

Marcus Mizelle (05:24)
don't know how to pronounce anything.

Julia Max (05:24)
No, I don't

know. I'm sure someone's out there going, that's not how you say it. So, it could be.

Marcus Mizelle (05:28)
So this is, yeah, that's

not correct. was y'all. Fantastic Film Festival. It's screened at 15 festivals before landing on Alters streaming platform where it's received over one million views. You're read by Entertainment 360. So, okay. Fantastic Festival. You like, you're a horror filmmaker, huh? Nice. Let's talk about that. Let's start right there then. Where does your love for horror films come from?

Julia Max (05:51)
I sure am. I sure, am.

that's a good question.

Marcus Mizelle (06:00)
Kind

of a weird question actually, where does it come from? You probably watch horror movies and you like horror movies, I would assume.

Julia Max (06:06)
That's true, but you know, to be honest, ⁓ you know, to be completely honest, for many years, I was absolutely one of those people that's like, ⁓ no, I don't like horror films. ⁓ Because I think that there's a misconception that a lot of people have about horror. They think, that's like either slashers or it's like, you know, the Saw series and it's just super bloody and like, I'm not into that. ⁓ But then,

Marcus Mizelle (06:19)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Julia Max (06:35)
all the horror films that they do like are psychological thrillers. And I have to admit, I was totally one of those people that I was like, I'm not into horror. And it wasn't until I started dating my partner Ian McDonald, who's also a writer and director, ⁓ and we got into a very big debate. It was like one of our first fights and it was great. And it was all about the horror genre and...

Marcus Mizelle (06:40)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Max (07:01)
He won, I have to say, he won big time. And I realized, man, so many of my favorite movies that I hadn't mentally labeled as horror actually are like, one of the most obvious being The Shining, which I watch like every year. It's fantastic, but it's, you know, it's so brilliant, but it's beautiful, stylistic filmmaking that it just hadn't fully registered as like what I, the misconceptions I had about horror.

Marcus Mizelle (07:12)
Mmm.

love it.

Julia Max (07:32)
And same with like seven or silence of the lamps. I mean, you literally have someone wearing another person's skin. And still we're like, that's not horror though.

Marcus Mizelle (07:35)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And these genre mashups too, right? As far as silence of the lambs and fincher stuff, you know, where it's like a, you know, thriller, crime, horror. Yeah, totally horror, totally horror.

Julia Max (07:45)
Yeah!

Absolutely,

and then you've got like horror comedies like Death Becomes Her, which I absolutely love and adore, but once you kind of start looking at horror with a bigger lens and a bigger scope, you realize, ⁓ shit, I love horror. This is the best genre ever because it encapsulates all the other genres.

Marcus Mizelle (07:59)
yeah!

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

my God, so I had my horror moment where I love all genres, I love all movies, I love some more than others, I think, but do I? I don't know. But I had my

ages nine through 11, I think, where I just wiped out every single option at the video store.

all the campy stuff, everything. couldn't get enough, couldn't get enough, couldn't get enough. And it's like, I guess it was just about like, what is it about? Why did I like it? I mean, I wasn't into like people dying, but I was into like the suspenseful nature of it, the act of it. I don't know. horror is about the possib-

Julia Max (08:33)
Yeah, I love those.

Marcus Mizelle (08:50)
the likelihood of death, right? The likelihood of getting murdered

Why do we love it so much? Are we fucked up? I don't understand.

Julia Max (08:56)
I mean, probably

a little bit, but I also think that the genre lends itself to some really interesting visual styles that you just can't get in certain other genres. know, like if you look at De Palma's films and stuff, it's just like, they're so visually just like, whoa, those images last with you for years, know, long after the movie ends. And I think that's amazing, yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (09:07)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Brian De Palma.

What would you say your De Palma, your go-to De Palma films are?

Julia Max (09:30)
⁓ mean, Carrie,

Marcus Mizelle (09:32)
yeah.

Julia Max (09:32)
mean,

I think that movie is pretty darn perfect. I can't think of what I would change about it. It's stunning.

Marcus Mizelle (09:39)
Okay, going back to The Shining real quick. We can go ahead and knock out our past films. The Shining, I rewatched that a few months, last Halloween, and showed it to someone who hadn't seen it before and it was so fun to watch it, know, vicariously for the first time. it's so good. Kubrick's my favorite guy. He's my favorite filmmaker. You know, just something about, it's just so tight. Like his stuff, I think some of the best filmmakers, like they're,

Julia Max (09:42)
Mm. My first love, yeah.

understandably.

Marcus Mizelle (10:06)
their films grow in significance. As time passes, I feel like...

Julia Max (10:11)
Absolutely. I mean,

it blows my mind that that was not really well received when it came out.

Marcus Mizelle (10:18)
Most of

his stuff didn't seem to be I don't think really eyes wide shut no 2001 of space odyssey hit no ⁓ You know clockwork orange. I'm sure not very much

Julia Max (10:21)
It's,

It really blows my mind. And I have to say, after talking with a lot of filmmakers, it is kind of comforting the way knowing even these brilliant movies that we love so much, it's just like, sometimes fall victim to the time that they come out or it's just audiences are not ready, whatever the reason is, you just never know.

Marcus Mizelle (10:43)
Mm-hmm.

That's such an interesting place my brain goes to here where like, that is a good thing where you make a good film and it can stand the test of time and it can age well, like a nice bottle of wine or something. also things were different back then where there was way less saturation. And I only bring that up because maybe a film could have a chance to age well because there's less noise around it then versus now it's like, you your film comes out and it ain't new no more as soon as it comes out.

Julia Max (11:10)
Very true.

Marcus Mizelle (11:23)
You know, maybe for a minute, and then it's like, nope.

Julia Max (11:23)
What?

No, it's so true. mean, one of the things that Ian and I are always talking about when we're writing, it's so frustrating that we're in such a different time where no matter what kind of movie you're writing, you have to jump into things so quickly. You're not allowed to really take that time to kind of build up the characters in the world in the way that was just normal like 30 years ago. If you watch something like

again, right? And she's like, that is a very slow build or the exorcist, which we all know and love. And when we think of it, we're only thinking of the last 20 minutes. Most of the time you kind of forget the whole opening, which is it's very slow.

Marcus Mizelle (11:56)
Mmm, nice.

well.

Mmm. Yeah.

We have

these micro, what is it, micro attention? These people are just, need it now, now, now, now. And it's like, you gotta make a choice, I think. Either give it to them or say, fuck that. Kinda, right? Or, and then, I don't know. I I wanna be entertained, but also I don't want to just be, I don't know, I want some sustenance, you know? And like, you have to build up the, it's such a larger conversation. It's such a, you know, it's like, what is ⁓ the balance between, ⁓

Julia Max (12:35)
It's a challenge. It is.

Marcus Mizelle (12:42)
getting to it, getting into it, getting to the point. This is what I'm literally doing right now with this damn documentary cut, where it's like, how quick, ugh, how quick does it need to be? But also, this feels really rushed and erratic.

Julia Max (12:48)
Right? It's a struggle.

I mean, I think it's incredibly challenging finding that balance of letting the story breathe, letting the characters breathe so that we get to know them, and yet jumping into the meat fast enough that people are still entertained and aren't feeling like it's dragging. And I think a lot of that kind of depends on what tone you're going for. For example, with the surrender.

Marcus Mizelle (13:12)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Max (13:22)
we tried doing faster versions in the script and in the edit where we were like, okay, let's really jump into the horror earlier. And it really didn't work because with this story at least, if you don't really care about the characters and understand the mother daughter relationship, then all the horror aspects are completely meaningless. And personally, I think there is a lot to be said about the... ⁓

Marcus Mizelle (13:32)
Hmm.

Julia Max (13:52)
those kind of stressful mother-daughter situations where it's like you're not seeing any monsters but it's still kind of horrifying and anxiety inducing.

Marcus Mizelle (14:01)
That was in the trailer. was trying to kind of articulate that when I was talking to you, but yeah, that was definitely the more compelling, interesting part of the trailer for me where it's like these quick moments of this awkwardness, this tension between mother and daughter, and I'm like, what is going on with that mom? What is going on? I know she's up to something. I already know it. You can see it. Yeah.

Julia Max (14:17)
Yeah.

fun character. But yeah,

so I think it's, it's, it is all about finding that balance. But similarly, if you're going to see a slasher movie, you don't want this very long, slow build before you jump into it, because that's not what you're going to see. That's not what you want to see. So I think it very much depends on the movie and how that and what what you're trying to sell, essentially.

Marcus Mizelle (14:33)
Mm-hmm, sure. Yeah.

Sure. Yeah,

if you're labeling it as an observational documentary, then you can keep that camera kind of rolling and not cut. But if you're giving them a fast-paced thing, you better give them fast-paced. ⁓ So when did you make your first film? Even if it was a short film? Even if it was borrowing your parents' camcorder or whatever? When was the first moment you kind of...

Julia Max (14:52)
Exactly.

Absolutely.

Marcus Mizelle (15:15)
Yeah, either realize you were a filmmaker or wanted to be one. Like, where's that beginning point?

Julia Max (15:21)
Well, I I grew up in LA and both my parents are in the industry. I very much like from the age since I was born as a baby, grew up on movie sets, just kind of following them around. And to be honest, I always knew I wanted to be in film. I love storytelling. But what I saw around me was that women could only be actors in hair and makeup.

costume or accounting. Those were the only places I ever saw women. So it didn't even occur to me that I would be allowed to write or direct, even though no one explicitly told me that. ⁓ So I would, you know, in high school and stuff, I would make little short films and everything, but it never occurred to me that I could actually pursue that. And it wasn't until, you know, much later in life where you started seeing more women, like more female.

filmmakers coming out that I was like, we're allowed to do this. That's great. I want to do this.

Marcus Mizelle (16:25)
It's

so true. mean, excuse me, I just had a massive crazy sneeze. I'm going through it today. I'm just having a tough time. No, I feel that. I I used to grip for a while to get out of, you know, to get out of North Carolina. And I remember even like the crews were very, very much what you said. Hair and makeup would be, the vanities would be, would be female. But, you know, it wasn't until, I remember being shocked when like, when

Julia Max (16:30)
no!

That's a fun one.

Yep.

Marcus Mizelle (16:54)
We had a camera person at the second AC, you know? You didn't see a lot of that. It was a boys club. Boys club. And actually, you know who that was? ⁓ was Sarah Jones. Excuse me. Excuse me. Yeah, I was friends with her. ⁓ Yeah, yeah. But anyways, yeah, was such a... ⁓

Julia Max (16:59)
Yeah, you just.

⁓ well.

Awesome.

Marcus Mizelle (17:17)
I'd be a little pissed off at that point if I was a female, but there's been a great resurgence, right? I mean, there's been a great surge, you know?

Julia Max (17:25)
There has, ⁓

there absolutely has, and I'm so glad that the numbers are starting to change there, and you're seeing a lot more women on set, which is fantastic.

Marcus Mizelle (17:37)
And I mean, a lot of these films, like, is just this thing of like, just let the ⁓ good stories come. Why does it matter so much? Why does it matter? White Boys Club was the way the whole entire world was set up up until I feel like we were kids, know? Or way past even like teenagers. So we've seen progress, I guess.

Julia Max (17:49)
Exactly.

Yeah. yeah. No, we're definitely

seeing progress and I hope it continues in that direction.

Marcus Mizelle (18:04)
Let's keep going. So, okay, so your parents grew up in, I mean, you grew up in LA and you grew up around film family and that's what my kid's getting. His mama and dad are both film people and he just watched Back to the Future Part II last night. You know what I mean? We're doing all that and he's listening to soundtracks on the way to school now. He's five years old.

Julia Max (18:16)
That's awesome. Aw, I love that.

Has,

does he already know he wants to be in film? Ha ha, love that.

Marcus Mizelle (18:27)
Yeah. And I'm trying to make sure

that he's making the decision and not me, but all I can do is expose, know, show him what I like and all, you know. But it's film. Who doesn't love movies and film and stuff, you know? It's magical. And everything is frustrating, I guess, at some point, so you might as well do what you want to do. So your, what was like one of your more magical memories of

Julia Max (18:40)
magical even when it's frustrating and crazy making it's still magical.

yeah, absolutely.

Marcus Mizelle (18:55)
growing up with your parents and like, you know, film related. Were you ever on any like film set that was memorable or were you, did you make a film with your parents or anything come to mind?

Julia Max (19:05)
Boy, I think probably.

Well, this is ridiculous. And, you know, who knows? My whole life could have changed if I had made a different decision in this moment. But my dad was a producer on this really tiny indie film with this unknown director, no one knew. And he was like, oh, there's, you know, there's a part for a young girl your age, like.

Marcus Mizelle (19:20)
Mmm.

Julia Max (19:41)
why you audition? And I did and I got the role. ⁓ unfortunately, my mom had booked a job in Africa and was like, well, you could do this acting thing on this tiny little indie film that no one's ever gonna see or you could come to Africa with me. And I was like, let's do that. That sounds really cool. Let's go to Africa. So I turned down the and...

It turned out that that little indie filmmaker who no one was ever gonna hear of was Wes Anderson and it was Bottle Rocket. I was like, my God. And now I love him so much. And I'm just like, aw, that, I regret that. That would have been so cool.

Marcus Mizelle (20:13)
Wow.

What do you do? What can you do?

I turned down a job when I first moved to New Orleans in 2011, 2010, 2011. ⁓ It was like, but they were trying, they were shooting in like the middle of nowhere, Louisiana, paying like a hundred and something a day. I just couldn't do it. It was ⁓ of the Southern Wild. yeah, I wish I would have done it now. I wish I would have done it now.

Julia Max (20:35)
Mm.

You never know! You really never know, do ya?

Marcus Mizelle (20:53)
But yeah, no, you never know.

What are you gonna do? I I think other people have it much worse. You hear stories. There was something I heard where somebody was, was it, Well, I think it's the Eric Stoltz, Michael J. Fox thing's pretty rough. I mean, he didn't have it, I guess he didn't have, he didn't turn it down, but he got replaced like three weeks after filming started. Is that right?

Julia Max (21:06)
⁓ yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, but it's really wild. you watched those scenes that are online now of Eric Stoltz? It is wild. It doesn't work. It would have been such a different movie. And I just think it shows ⁓ how important it is as a filmmaker to trust your gut. And if something's not working.

Marcus Mizelle (21:19)
No, I haven't seen them.

Julia Max (21:39)
to like pull the plug on it, even if it feels like it's too late. It's never too late. ⁓ Cause that, mean, check out those scenes. It's really wild.

Marcus Mizelle (21:41)
Mm.

⁓

I'm

very interested. I'm gonna show Luke tonight actually. Yeah, I know there's a film that I made. It's my third feature of the micro budget. I wish I would have pulled the plug, but I didn't, because I had already had X amount of money in and all those justifications, but it's like, nobody cares about that. When you put the movie out, they're gonna see the movie. That's all there is. So once you put it out, you can't put it back in. This mistake has helped me so much in retrospect. It's helped me a lot, but.

Julia Max (21:58)
Mmm. Mmm.

yeah.

I know we've all made that mistake. We've all made that mistake

Marcus Mizelle (22:19)
just sucks that it's, you know, let it happen. Okay, so USC, how was USC?

Julia Max (22:23)
yeah.

⁓ USC was alright. ⁓ I was in the theater department. I didn't even bother trying for the film school because I was like, it's all guys. Like, why would I? ⁓ But, you know, what I did love there is that I was able to take a lot of directing classes for theater. And I think it's incredibly important for...

Marcus Mizelle (22:44)
Okay, yeah.

Julia Max (22:57)
know, directors to be able to talk with their actors and understand that process and that side of things. ⁓ I think, you know, knowing the technical aspects is also important, but if the lighting's fantastic, if everything is looking great, but the performances are not there, it doesn't really matter, does it?

Marcus Mizelle (23:03)
Totally.

And

there's, yeah, and there's people there to take care of the lighting and things like that, but there's not anybody, but you really may be probably to take care of the collaboration with the actor, right, the performances.

Julia Max (23:19)
Exactly.

Yeah, you know, I'm curious ⁓ from your experience, like, do you ever find when you were just starting out, did you have any insecurities as a filmmaker like, ⁓ well, I don't know enough about this or enough about that and therefore I can't do this? Did that ever hit you?

Marcus Mizelle (23:46)
Yeah,

definitely. And I think it made me better. I mean, I was especially concerned with directing actors. And that first feature we did in like, 2008, 2009, whatever year it was in Northam Wilmington, North Carolina, I co-directed it and co-wrote it based on a short film that I wrote in community college back years before that. It was my first feature in like really my second thing ever.

And maybe something like that. They're besides shorts with friends. anyways, I remember being very ⁓ concerned with being found out that I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, you know, that even though everybody already knew that I knew what I was doing. And then, you know, but so co-directing it, my co-director, like day two, I kind of made the decision or made the offer and the decision was made.

Julia Max (24:19)
But yeah.

Yes!

Marcus Mizelle (24:44)
for him to worry about the kind of technical camera stuff with the DP, because the DP was getting on my nerves anyways, I don't wanna do that. But I really wanted to just take the material that we wrote and just get it through the actors. Nothing was more exciting or fulfilling than having it come to life and then getting greedy with it, like, my God, we got what we need that last take, but now we can actually add onto this, my God, this is gonna be great. The magic of being able to do that.

Julia Max (24:51)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (25:13)
and you feel like you just got away with the biggest heist ever. I don't know, that's how I looked at it. I was like, oh my God, this scene's gonna work, okay, I think we're good.

Julia Max (25:13)
Totally.

Oh, it's the best feeling in the world. And you're like, we pulled it off.

Marcus Mizelle (25:25)
Yeah, it's

it's amazing. So I remember getting a compliment from several people like about a week and a half to two weeks in and they were all like, you're really good at directing actors. And I was just so proud to get that feedback. Cause that's the only thing I cared about at the time. And I feel like that's probably the best performance I've gotten since. Because maybe I was really a hawk, you know? Cause I felt like I was surviving.

Maybe that's just maybe that's also maybe that's also a a What's the word? You know Because of the specific actors the great actors that I was working with too. I mean looking back I'm like damn they were great actually so

Julia Max (26:10)
yeah,

mean casting is like, that is the most important thing. If you have the right actors, you know, you'll get there with them, but if you hire the wrong people, no matter how much time you take with them, it's just not gonna work.

Marcus Mizelle (26:24)
And you don't know if you've hired the wrong people until you're in it. And then it's like, do you pull the plug? But yes, but these actors that I had for that first film, were also, we did, it was kind of a Corman situation, a Roger Corman kind of situation where everybody was doing crew to survive. And then we would make stuff on our own. And some people were just natural actors. And so we'd put them in. So all these main actors were actually like, kind of Renaissance people too. And they had, I think they had some perspective and appreciation more than.

Julia Max (26:27)
I know, it's terrifying.

Mm-hmm.

Marcus Mizelle (26:53)
more than honestly, sadly, some of these actors that I've dealt with, where they're just actors, you know, and they don't really have the full understanding of what's actually going on around them. That's just my experience. It's a micro-budget little world, little Cliff Note experience. But I do think like there's more substance inside of something that...

Julia Max (27:00)
Mmm.

Totally.

Marcus Mizelle (27:19)
where they just appreciate it more and they're trying to really, this is their opportunity. They know it's an opportunity. They don't take it for granted and then they just give you more, you know?

Julia Max (27:29)
⁓ absolutely. I mean, I remember heading into the surrender, like the advice I kept getting from different ⁓ filmmakers and like my manager and stuff was just, it is always better to work with someone who is very eager to work with you than someone who might be a bit more experienced but sees it as like, I'm doing you a favor.

Marcus Mizelle (27:46)
Hmm.

damn, that's good. It's good simple advice. Yeah. Yeah.

Julia Max (27:54)
It's true though, because like

that attitude, it permeates everything.

Marcus Mizelle (27:59)
Yeah, it really does. ⁓ So, I mean, what about you? mean, do you struggle with any certain aspects or not struggle, but do you have concerns more than others about certain aspects of the filmmaking process or you've been doing it for a while, I'm sure, but is there anything you're still trying to just get better at or things that you're worried that aren't gonna be good enough?

Julia Max (28:22)
I mean, always, there's always insecurities that come up. think the biggest lesson that I've learned ⁓ has been in choosing the team around you. ⁓ Like, I remember for quite a while there, I would always kind of put on this bravado, like, ⁓ yeah, I know exactly what I'm doing, totally, even though I was just like, I don't actually know. And...

Marcus Mizelle (28:44)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you get to your room, you're

behind the door, your room or your trailer.

Julia Max (28:53)
Yeah, well, there was like a fear that ⁓ the crew or the cast wouldn't take me seriously if I admitted that I didn't know something. And on the Surrender, it was always just so draining doing that and I hated it. And so with the Surrender, when I started interviewing crew members, I was just very upfront about like, okay, like my DP, Kayla and Yatsko, who I love so much.

At our first meeting, I was just like, look, I'm gonna be straight up with you. I do not know everything there is to know about lighting and lenses and everything. And I know what I want, I don't know how to achieve it. And she was like, that's great, you don't need to, that's my job. yeah, she was like, that's fine. And I was like, good. And so as soon as I could admit that to her and have her be like...

Marcus Mizelle (29:33)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. mean, you know?

Julia Max (29:47)
I feel ya, just give me reference images of what you want and I will figure out how to do that. And it was just this huge load off.

Marcus Mizelle (29:57)
Yeah, and I feel like there's a lot of directors, people that want to make films that put too much on us on gear and lenses and da da da. mean, know it, and you know, and know how to use it, but also like that's not the priority as a director. I don't think, you know, yeah. How are you?

Julia Max (30:03)
yeah.

And

honestly, think the person behind the camera and wielding it is far more important than the camera itself. It's like you can have top of the line equipment, but if it's wielded by someone who doesn't know what they're doing, it's gonna look like crap.

Marcus Mizelle (30:22)
Totally.

Oh my gosh, totally, yes. mean, iPhone 16, if you know how to put it in a certain place and you know how to push it, you're gonna get better shots than, you know, whatever camera, you know, RALF, whatever the best, greatest, latest thing is. It's like, no, that's just, it's like this like mythic, like it's like this crutch thing, you know? Like, of like new camera, new camera, new camera. It's like,

Julia Max (30:31)
Yeah.

Absolutely.

No, I mean I feel like there's a lot of people who are very hung up on like, using the latest equipment and all the coolest things and it's, you know, I feel like so much of the time people spend so much money on this stuff and it doesn't actually look any better and you're just like, what was the point?

Marcus Mizelle (30:54)
Yeah.

It's

almost mixed in with like, what does it call when you buy something to make yourself feel good? What does that call, that term, do you know what about? Therapy shopping or something. It's like there's a little bit of dash of that when it comes to that, know? So I'm gonna buy, I'm gonna have this package, da da. Anyways, okay, The Surrender, The Surrender. you wrote this film and directed it. Did you co-write or did you write solo write?

Julia Max (31:14)
⁓ like one of, yeah, yeah, that kind of. Yeah, I can totally see that.

Hehehehe

show then.

no, just me.

Marcus Mizelle (31:37)
Okay, so how did this project come about? mean, such a basic question, but really, how did it come about? Why this story?

Julia Max (31:45)
Well, this was loosely inspired by what my mom and I went through when my stepfather passed away. ⁓ That was, you know, brutal. And I kind of started writing this as a way of helping process that and what that experience was. And ⁓ I'm not gonna lie, very early on, I had quite a few people who were like, well,

this is a mistake, mean, no one wants to see a mother and daughter movie like this, this is dull. yeah. This is even with knowing that it was gonna be a horror movie, they're like, no, no, no one wants this. And thankfully I had enough people in particular like Ian, my husband who's also a producer on it, ⁓ he pushed very hard and was like, I think this is really

Marcus Mizelle (32:17)
Really? Wow. this is before you brought in the horror elements.

Really?

Julia Max (32:42)
great and it's special and you should embrace the mother daughter element and not try to force it into something else and just have that be a secondary thing. And I'm so glad I took his advice and after that we found, you know, the right team that got on board and behind that idea.

Marcus Mizelle (32:51)
amazing.

That's the kind of support we all need right there. E-E-N, E-E-N. No, that's great. That's great. Amazing. Because sometimes you're so in it and you're trying to just like, what is it? mean, you're really trying to see if other people like it. And if you get an idea that people don't, then it does discourage you really badly. You need support.

Julia Max (33:03)
Hell yeah. Yeah, no, it's great.

It does, but this is

exactly why you need your team, like those people that you trust, whose opinions you trust. So you can go to them and be like, is this a good idea or is this a bad idea? Because you know, you can waste months, if not years on something only to realize, ⁓ crap, this doesn't work.

Marcus Mizelle (33:30)
Mm-hmm.

It's

even more tricky when you have good friends who have terrible opinions. I'm just kidding.

Julia Max (33:42)
Okay.

But

yeah, that's why finding those people whose opinion you trust to get the thumbs up, thumbs down early on, it...

Marcus Mizelle (33:52)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's huge.

We haven't talked about that on this thing. Yeah, that's a good point, really. The developing process, right? The developing phase, where they're really trying to just see if it susses out. How do know if it's the right person? How do you know the opinion to trust, you know? Is it based on track record with that person or your instinct or both?

Julia Max (34:14)
Yeah, I mean, I feel like at this point, I've kind of got a group of people who I go to and usually I feel like their tastes are fairly aligned with mine. So it's like, I, we like the same films for the most part. Of course, like you're never going to agree a hundred percent with anyone. But, you know, it's like our tastes are kind of similar. They like projects that, but ⁓ here's another one though. You know, you want to...

Marcus Mizelle (34:32)
Yeah.

Julia Max (34:43)
You also need to have subgroups within your trusted group that appreciate slightly different genre aspects. Like my friends who like the slasher films and stuff, I'm not gonna necessarily get their opinions on a slow burn horror movie because it's just not their cup of tea. Yeah, exactly. If you're like trying to figure out what documentary you work on, you're not gonna go to someone who doesn't like documentaries that like, what are they gonna know?

Marcus Mizelle (34:50)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Sure. Yeah. You know what you're gonna get.

Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Really, yeah.

Julia Max (35:14)
So yeah, think having a good group of people that you trust is so key. How do you pick your projects?

Marcus Mizelle (35:21)
Yeah, that was so true. Yeah.

It's either one of two things. seems like it's either this thing that drops in my lap that I didn't notice. Because a lot of times, at all times, things are falling into your lap. But the question is, are you noticing it? So the last one, Bellevue, it was just my favorite restaurant going through the pandemic. So I'm picking up food and I'm like, are you going to survive? And then, can I film you? Because I have nothing else to do. And then it was just an organic thing. And then the one that I

Julia Max (35:51)
wow.

Marcus Mizelle (35:52)
been doing the past three and half years is about this private investigator in Los Angeles and the way just following him and his protege around and but it's a comedy too. They're funny. But how that came about was it was the opposite where like I created the opportunity in a way where I told myself, I asked myself if I could do a documentary on anything, what would it be? And I'm like, how cool would it be to do a documentary about a real life private investigator? Like it's actually like a detective movie.

Julia Max (36:03)
I love that.

Marcus Mizelle (36:22)
but it's a documentary, you know? Is that possible? And so I emailed 130 PIs in LA County. Every single LA, every single PI in LA has heard from me. And then I, I'd say half kind of got back to me and then I'd say a third of them were like interested. And then that came down to like filming six of them. I'm a maniac. I'm like, what? And then, and then those six, I,

Julia Max (36:32)
Wow!

Marcus Mizelle (36:51)
just one day each, just like ask them 10 questions and then cut dailies down, cut selects from that footage. And then I realized soon after, I'm like the first guy was my guy. And then we just went with him and then we got into his story. And then of course you find out all these other good stuff. So anyways, it's been great. The thing about it, it's a...

Julia Max (37:11)
Wow. And I thought the casting

process was tough. That sounds far worse.

Marcus Mizelle (37:15)
It's an inverted, it's

also, it's so inverted and like, you know, get the immediate payoff of being able to begin the project immediately. Like beyond just writing, you're actually filming immediately, which is wonderful. And like, my God, it's so great. I love to shoot my own stuff. It's just me, I just love it. ⁓ But the problem is that the payoff is you have to write it in the edit, you know, in a way, a lot of times. I mean, you're writing it throughout.

Julia Max (37:40)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (37:43)
but you're kind of just operating off instinct and then the edit, you're like, you gotta pay, you gotta pay the price and the edit is a freaking nightmare. Unless it's like a clear, obvious, know, simple hero's journey or some sort of thing. But with this project, it's been literally just like trying every single scene order possible, you know? It's brutal.

Julia Max (38:02)
that's interesting.

Did you ever watch the 7UP series?

Marcus Mizelle (38:07)
No.

Julia Max (38:09)
⁓ shit, it's so good. Yeah, it's this British documentary where they found a group of seven year olds and then they film them once every seven years to kind of, and you see these people grow up. It's wild. It's so good. Yes, it is incredible. But it's really interesting because,

Marcus Mizelle (38:11)
Seven up, let see.

⁓

⁓ wow, it's like boyhood but like a documentary like real life.

Julia Max (38:37)
you're watching them grow up, but you're also watching the filmmaker grow. And so it's like, it's very clear in the first, like in the very first episode, ⁓ when they're all the kids are seven, it's very obvious that there's like kind of hidden agendas going on and that the filmmakers like making assumptions about like where these kids are gonna go in their lives based on like, you know, their different backgrounds and stuff. And

Marcus Mizelle (38:42)
Mmm.

Okay.

Yeah, oof.

Julia Max (39:06)
Then as it progresses in the years go by, the filmmaker kind of realizes, ⁓ crap, I got it totally wrong and I can't force this. I've just gotta document as is. Do you ever find that to be the case? Where you want it to go one way and then you're like, ⁓ crap, that's not where this is actually going.

Marcus Mizelle (39:21)
Yeah, ⁓ yeah, yeah, yes. It's like this is what it's actually about, but it's just like

any good character arc almost, right? It's like just being a human being. It's like you don't get what you wanted, you get what you needed. Or you get what, or maybe you do get what you thought you wanted, but by the time you get it, it's like that's not what, that was just the other thing that was distracting me from what it is that I need or want. I mean, you know, that's like what, step.

six in a hero's journey, essentially. It's like you get what, I think it's six, they get, you get what you thought you wanted, but you pay the price for it type thing. But it sounds like ⁓ this Up series, which yeah, I'm just looking at it now. Thank you for bringing this up.

Julia Max (40:03)
it's wonderful. I mean, like, I binge watched that in a week. It's fascinating.

Marcus Mizelle (40:07)
Okay,

so fascinating. I've had kind of general ideas of like, could I do to like document ⁓ little pieces now and then a little bit later as I get older. I don't know, I couldn't figure out what the world was in that, but I know this existed either. nothing is original. I'm ⁓ just kidding. But what was I gonna say? No, it's so interesting. mean, even the, like Bellevue, know, it was like,

Julia Max (40:21)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, check it out. I know, there's no such thing. It's all been done.

Marcus Mizelle (40:37)
It's like, maybe we can show survival here and like fighting for, you know, your, your, your, your peace fighting for your mom and pop and, know, down with the man, you know, this restaurant was in between a McDonald's and a KFC. It's like, but no, what it was really about was it's not even about what happens to you. It's about how you react to what happens to you. And that was discovered through, and then what a lesson, what a wonderful reminder for every single person in this world. ⁓ you know, where it's like, okay.

Julia Max (41:03)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (41:07)
Am I going to be a victim or am I going to look for the next thing that I could maybe do to turn this around? So that was the... yeah.

Julia Max (41:13)
No, I think it's

such an important story because I do feel like, especially now, feels like we are very much in a time of ⁓ victimhood where it's like that has become its own currency in a way and everyone feels like a victim in their own right and it's very tricky because it's just like, well, if everyone's a victim, then no one's really a victim.

Marcus Mizelle (41:23)
Mmm.

It's this, yeah, it kind

of goes back to the stoicism thing, right, or the gratitude thing, the gratitude idea of, even today when I was, you know, and it's so silly because I'm in Los Angeles and like I'm leaving this nice school that my healthy kid gets to get dropped off at and I'm over here getting in my Audi, like, ugh, I'm kind of pissy today. And then I, but thankfully immediately the other voice was like, stop it. Just go home and edit your movie.

Boo hoo, you know what I mean? Where I was trying to stop being, because you can lean down in this victim path of like, wah wah wah, you know? And it's like, you have to resist that because it doesn't do you any good. And it's also just absolutely ridiculous really, you know?

Julia Max (42:13)
It's so easy to.

Well, I mean, for me, always think the problem is when you lean into that path and you, I mean, hey, that's not saying like, if something bad is happening, like it's okay to acknowledge that and feel that, absolutely. But I think sometimes it gets so easy to kind of wallow in it for so long.

that you start taking that out and treating other people really badly and you feel like it's okay for me to treat people badly because I'm a victim in this way. And that I think is wrong.

Marcus Mizelle (42:44)
Mmm.

Absolutely.

I agree and it comes out. comes out. ⁓ It comes out. You get shorter with people or whatever. Yeah, it's true.

Julia Max (42:56)
Yeah, it does. And it's

really hard not to do that when you're in that mentality, you know?

Marcus Mizelle (43:03)
It's almost

like stopping, I love this conversation right here. This podcast is fun because we talk about the movies, but also it's like, let's talk about the stuff in between or whatever. ⁓

Julia Max (43:06)
I do!

Marcus Mizelle (43:17)
Hold on, let think about it. I lost it. Just not letting something get down too far down the road before you just kind of just address it, know, with your, as opposed to before it turns into something else. And then you don't even know why it's happening, you know, you need a therapist at that point. Like, kind of thing.

Julia Max (43:20)
You're good.

now.

Well, I mean,

to be honest, I feel like this very much relates to the process of filmmaking itself, just because you know, things go wrong at every step of the way. But if you get too focused on the things that are going wrong and you let each one kind of suck, like suck your energy and just bring you down, you can't move forward and the whole thing falls apart. And so it's so important to...

Marcus Mizelle (43:41)
Mmm.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Julia Max (44:03)
keep that positive attitude and keep going. There's always a way to move forward. There's always a way to figure it out.

Marcus Mizelle (44:12)
Totally, it's like the fork in the road, the tipping point moment. That's really what it comes down to in my mind where it's like, you're go left or right, you're gonna go victim or you're gonna go, ⁓ I don't know, what's the alternative? Try to be ⁓ positive, really. Just try to be positive. Just go and then all of sudden everything leans in that direction, whatever decision you make.

Julia Max (44:14)
Damn.

No, it's true. I mean, I think it is that whole like fake it till you make it thing. I think that works on pretty much every level when it comes to that. Like even if you're not feeling great, if you smile for like 10 seconds, it's amazing how much that just changes your mentality. And you're like, okay, we can do this. I got this, we're on it.

Marcus Mizelle (44:38)
Mmm

Yeah,

manifestation, I guess you could call it in a way. guess, you know, it'd be a version of it. It'd be like, you know, you're just saying, you're choosing like this mindset, you know, and all it takes is a little bit of initial like effort, I feel like. And then all of sudden it's like, you're not a victim. You're not as annoyed or as annoying. But, okay, so the surrender, back to the surrender. So the writing process, how did you know when you were kind of

rounding the corner on being done with the script itself. Like how did that look?

Julia Max (45:25)
I I don't think any script is ever done until the movie is completed.

Marcus Mizelle (45:29)
I know.

we go. That is true.

Julia Max (45:33)
You know,

I got it as far as I could. And then we were, I was very lucky that both Kate Burton and Colby Minifee, are so, so wonderful, just the dream team right there, ⁓ they both come from theater. And so they were both totally on board to come out to LA a week early so we could rehearse and really

have them get to know each other a bit more. So that was phenomenal. And in that week, we got to just do scene studies and break down the scenes, break down their characters, see what was resonating for them, what wasn't, and kind of adjust the script accordingly. And I'm so glad we got that because frequently you don't get that rehearsal time and you're trying to figure that out on set and

Marcus Mizelle (46:04)
Mm-hmm.

⁓ Nice.

Yeah.

Julia Max (46:29)
trying to scramble and rewrite when you've got the whole crew standing around wasted and you're just wasting everyone's time like, ⁓ it's.

Marcus Mizelle (46:30)
⁓ my God.

You're,

it's gotta take years off, at least one year off your life, I would think. Distress.

Julia Max (46:41)
Oh yeah,

mean, are you kidding? I lost like five pounds making this movie, it was great. I'm like, it is, it is the filmmaker diet, good Lord. But you know, it is so funny that doing that kind of prep, which so many studios and people are like, oh, it's a waste of time and money. And it's like, it actually saves so much time and money.

Marcus Mizelle (46:45)
There you go, the filmmaker diet.

Cause there's

just robots. Why would you say that? Because it doesn't look good on paper? You know what I mean? Like, oh.

Julia Max (47:11)
because

it's nothing that's gonna appear on screen, they say, but it's like, it is, this is absolutely going to translate to that. Yeah, so I think that's very helpful because they were able to then chime in and give their thoughts and we could tailor the characters to them a bit more and make the characters, that's when the characters really got fleshed out and came into their own.

Marcus Mizelle (47:15)
It will. It's called respect the process executive. Sorry.

Mmm.

Yeah. Yeah,

yeah, for sure. How did you have them on board? How did that work out as far as the packaging and the financing and all this stuff? How did that play out?

Julia Max (47:43)
Well, we were incredibly lucky with this film because, you know, as you know, so many films now are kind of the financing is cast and contingent, which is super fun. ⁓ But that wasn't the case here. So we were able to just go with the people who were best for the part. And I'm so grateful for that because it was just.

Marcus Mizelle (47:53)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Julia Max (48:09)
When we held auditions, we decided to do the role of the daughter first. And when we held auditions, Colby just, she just blew it out of the park. I've never seen anything like it. It's, do you ever have one of those moments where you see an actor perform a scene that you've written and you're like, wow, that is not at all how I initially thought of it in my mind, but that is exactly what it needs to be and should be.

Marcus Mizelle (48:31)
Yeah, it's so exciting.

And that's why I've told people like my favorite part of the cast process of making a film has been casting a lot of time because of those moments right there. Because it's like, and it's also like you, it's like you haven't spent any money yet really. You you haven't had your, it's like everything's exciting and da da. And then once that moment of like potentially or definitely finding that actor to play that part and they give you something that's them more than your character or on top of your character. ⁓

Julia Max (48:46)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (49:07)
It's like, whoa, this relief, it's this massive exciting thing.

Julia Max (49:12)
It's magic when that happens. And I think that's one of the interesting things, because for many years I was more focused on the acting side of things. And it's funny because I feel like for actors, there's this tendency to want to like, ⁓ well, I just want to fit into what's on the page and make that work. And frequently, that's not actually the most interesting performance. The most interesting performance are the people like.

who bring in something that's not on the page. And it's surprising and new and it brings this extra spark that's not there.

Marcus Mizelle (49:42)
Totally. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And even, I guess the opposite of that, whenever they bring something that's not on the page, but it's not on the same page of the film, that can be awkward. kind of, that's a real, that's reality though too sometimes. And sometimes that can happen after you've casted. And that's okay, but you better have those conversations, which kind of goes back to what we were talking about with, you know, ⁓ but.

Julia Max (50:00)
Hahaha

You know-

Absolutely, absolutely.

Marcus Mizelle (50:16)
You you gotta trust in your actors, I guess, but you gotta also... Here's a question. How do you know when you've casted the right actor? And like maybe, of course, sometimes you definitely know with moments like those where like, wow, they just did that, this is gonna be great. But that's not always the case, right? How do you know... Do you ever know sometimes fully when you pull the trigger and say, let's give the part to that person? How do know?

Julia Max (50:38)
I mean,

I think you have gut reactions along the way and I did for both Kate and Colby immediately. Well, actually for all of the wonderful actors that we cast in this movie, mean, good Lord, we have Neil Sandilands playing the man in this and he is fantastic. ⁓ I will say right now,

In any other situation, if an indie filmmaker was like, ⁓ I have this little low budget film and I want to fly an actor out from Cape Town to be in it, I'd be like, you're nuts. That's a stupid thing to do. But when I saw his audition, I was just like, my God, you're the only one who can do this. Like, it was just like, it has to be you. No one else is going to come even close.

Marcus Mizelle (51:23)
Mmm.

Okay, yeah, that's when you know.

Julia Max (51:34)
You know, and so in those moments you're like, you trust your instincts on that. But ultimately, you know, until you get onto set and you actually see it, it's all a little bit of a gamble.

Marcus Mizelle (51:35)
Yeah.

Totally.

I don't have to worry about that with the documentaries. But I love actors. I'm not even an actor, but I used to love, I used to watch Inside the Actors Studio religiously, not even because I ever wanted to be an actor. But I was like, just want, you know, shout out to that Tom Cruise episode. It was the best episode.

Julia Max (51:51)
Yeah, but...

But even with

the documentary, do you ever, I mean, God, have you ever encountered that moment where you start going down this road with someone and you're like, they're great, they're interesting, and then all of a sudden something happens and you're like, oh no, oh.

Marcus Mizelle (52:16)
Yeah, I have, have, yep, yep,

yep, yep, yep. I wouldn't have time to get into it either. But yeah, so yeah. That's my favorite thing about this whole thing, fiction or non-fiction or whatever, creating art, making films, is like the not knowing part. It's great. I do love it the most. And it rewards more than takes away most of the time. So that is a positive, I think, direction I'll choose to go in.

Julia Max (52:26)
But yeah, you're just like,

Yeah, I mean, I would

imagine though, it's more challenging with documentaries because you're not able to direct them in the same way that you can direct actors in a narrative project. We'd be like...

Marcus Mizelle (52:56)
So yeah,

see I like that personally, just for me, because I like not having, because too much control can mess your movie up. Or mess anything up, you know? Like I'm enjoying this, at least maybe it's a phase, hopefully it's the rest of my life, but I'm enjoying this moment for me where I'm like much better than I used to be at allowing things to happen, as opposed to trying to control and steer and all this. And I still do that, but it's like more so the...

Julia Max (53:20)
Nice.

That's great.

Marcus Mizelle (53:27)
a more selective process, know, where like, I mean, there's still much manipulation and directing, least how I've been doing it. You know, I've even written scenes, hey, say this, that's, you hybrid, that's not even full of documentary, at least with this last one. But that's also another conversation where it's so interesting, like, what is the line between, I mean, as soon as you push record and cut out five seconds between two shots, you're manipulating things, you know, what is real life really? You know, especially when it comes to

Julia Max (53:51)
Yeah.

Absolutely.

Marcus Mizelle (53:55)
to nonfiction filmmaking, it's like every documentary you've watched has been ⁓ a filmmaker's touch, you know, all over that, you know? ⁓ So where is it to say I can't also put them in a scenario that they could be? Like with the detective thing, it's like he's, there was moments where like, why isn't he ⁓ thinking about this angle to pursue real quick? And then so I'm like, finally, I'm like, can we just do that? What if you called this person up? What if?

What if you went to the apartment building? What if you went to go see the psychic? What if you went to do this? Or you guys, what if we went to go film a scene at Musso and Frank's with my iPhone and like you guys talked about the case. ⁓ You know what mean? So like, it's like, that's directing. It's like, it's all, documentaries are funny because it's all blended together so hard and so much where like the editing and the writing and the directing and the cinematography for me, that it's all just like.

Julia Max (54:40)
yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (54:48)
But the thing is you're not dealing with actors, you're dealing with real people who hopefully need to just be simply comfortable on camera. Like they're wonderful, larger than life personality that benefit from just one camera and no crew. They love it. But I think good actors are so remarkable because they have this ability to create from scratch or well, or from personal experiences along with having 50 people looking at them with hot lights on their face.

Julia Max (55:02)
Mm-hmm.

my god, it's a tremendous amount of pressure. mean, I think anytime you're on camera, it's stressful. But I don't know about you. I feel like you're probably more used to this now. Like with your podcast, you're like, I'm used to being recorded.

Marcus Mizelle (55:18)
Crazy.

Yeah.

But I'm still not a lover of, yeah, but you know,

I'm not trying to get in front of camera more than I have to, you know what I mean? I'm just more comfy, you know?

Julia Max (55:37)
Yeah, but I mean, I

think it's it's always a little nerve wracking. And I think, yeah, I honestly, when you're in front of camera on set with the whole crew staring at you and you have to have like a big dramatic scene, that's a tremendous amount of pressure. And so I have wild respect for actors. And it's yeah, that's got to be bit of a mind trip.

Marcus Mizelle (55:53)
crazy.

they will make or break your fiction film, which means – honestly, my opinion has changed. My views changed on fiction filmmaking. I mean, I still think it's a director's medium, but it's also an actor's – fiction filmmaking. It's an actor's medium. If you take it away, it ain't going to work. If it's not good, it will mess it up. They have to – I think so. You can still have a film, but ⁓ it's a collaboration.

Julia Max (56:03)
Absolutely.

It

is, but it's funny to me that one of the things that kept coming up when we were looking for financing on the surrender was there are really two types of film where it's like one is very much ideas based. And so it's just like the concept, it's a high concept thing that's so strong that even if the acting is just kind of meh, it'll still work. Yeah, but.

Marcus Mizelle (56:54)
selling sale, sale points, yeah, kind of thing.

Julia Max (56:57)
then you have something like the surrender where it's just like, this is not a super high concept thing. It is very much execution-based. And if you don't have the right actors or if they're not wonderful, the whole thing just collapses and falls apart.

Marcus Mizelle (57:13)
You gotta be precise, yeah. And isn't it crazy, the art versus commerce whole thing where it's like the, it's like almost like the more you try to serve the craft of it all, the less sellable it is to these people. Isn't it interesting? Why? Why? Why? we don't, and that's for the next episode. ⁓ Anyway. Okay, so wrapping up. Shutter, so South By, South By. ⁓

Julia Max (57:15)
You

yeah, that's, that is a tough nut to crack.

Marcus Mizelle (57:40)
Any notable, let me back up, any notable production stories or is it pretty much gonna be, know, I mean, we can guess. Or is there anything that you wanted to say or talk about during production that's interesting to hear?

Julia Max (57:52)
boy, we had a lot of fun stuff going on during production. ⁓ Honestly, that was such a blast. That is the most fun I've ever had. ⁓ I think probably the most dramatic moment during all of that was, you know, something that happened to one of our producers. Level, level holder, my God, poor guy. ⁓ We'd been doing this scene where, you know, an appendage gets...

Marcus Mizelle (57:54)
I know.

Julia Max (58:22)
cut off and it was like our last day filming and he was like, I don't know if there's enough blood in that scene. I was like, no, no, this is, we're using the right amount of blood because we want to have a build. You know, don't want to get too bloody too fast. And you know, so we've finished shooting the scene and then we wrap that location in the Disconso Gardens. And as we were wrapping up, we were moving these really heavy like pavers that were, you know, several hundred pounds and Lovell was helping some people move it.

Marcus Mizelle (58:34)
Yeah.

⁓

Julia Max (58:52)
And when they dropped it down, it sliced his finger and he nearly lost the tip of his finger. And we looked down and he ever so calmly was just like, ⁓ we did use the right amount of blood. Yeah. I was just like, my God, love. He was such a trooper. We got him straight to the emergency room.

Marcus Mizelle (58:59)
⁓ wow.

Good, wow, that's the attitude.

So not a victim,

he didn't choose victimhood, that's good. Okay.

Julia Max (59:17)
He was not a victim, he was amazing.

And we got him to the hospital and he was fine and he has his finger, but he nearly lost a finger in that. And we were just like, that is dedication. That is a dedicated producer.

Marcus Mizelle (59:31)
Whoa. It's

just like how quickly things can happen. Yeah, good for him, good job. Whoa. Whew. So the editing kind of like the, you when the film is done, you got it all wrapped and you got your editing and you're putting it together and you're trying to finalize it. Like how did that process look? I mean, did you have a tough time? Was it a breeze? Well, somewhere in between.

Julia Max (59:36)
⁓ he was amazing.

we had a whirlwind. I mean, we edited the whole film in like five weeks. It was nuts. And we finished, we didn't actually finish making the film completely until like a week before South By. So it was like a sprint. Yeah, from the time that pre-production started to us premiering at South By was under a year. It was like really fast.

Marcus Mizelle (59:59)
Whoa, I love that.

Whoa. Dang.

That's beautiful. That's

so wonderful. that's great.

Julia Max (1:00:22)
Yeah,

it was was such a whirlwind. And then like, you know, we got incredibly lucky with Shudder. And they're like, we want to release this right away. And we're like, even more of a whirlwind. Let's just keep it going.

Marcus Mizelle (1:00:35)
Good job! because

usually this stuff takes so long and all this and that's so cool to hear. Wait, you had, when did you get into SouthBio? What part of the process were you in? You were still editing, I guess, and you submitted a working cut or how did it work?

Julia Max (1:00:47)
my gosh.

So we reached out to them and we were just like, can we just have a tiny extension and we'll send you the locked cut? And they were like, yeah, that's all right. So we sent them a version that had no sound mix, it had temp score, it had like one VFX that we had managed to do real quick just to give them an idea, but no VFX. But thankfully, most of our effects are practical so you could get a pretty good sense of what's going on.

Marcus Mizelle (1:01:07)
Sure.

Yeah. Yeah.

Sure, you weren't worried

if it was gonna work or not, I guess, yeah.

Julia Max (1:01:21)
Yeah, and so just

based off of the lock cut, got in, thankfully. And then we were like, okay, now we just gotta sprint and actually get this done.

Marcus Mizelle (1:01:30)
I need, that's where I'm at now. I need to send Tiff the same message. Hey, that cut I sent you by the way. Can you just give me another few weeks? ⁓ Also, isn't it good? Yeah. Isn't it good to also just start, to have the conversation going with the festival if you can get a direct line to them, right? I mean, just to be able to kind of get yourself on their radar because they have so much coming in and coming at them at that time.

Julia Max (1:01:40)
You can do it, I believe in you!

They do.

And it's, I feel like that's always one of the challenging things because with so many of these festivals, they're like, well, if you don't get in, you can resubmit the next year. that usually doesn't work. Exactly. And so it's always that tough debate where it's like, is this unfinished version in good enough shape that they'll be able to see where it's going?

Or am I hurting myself and should I just wait till it's finished and polish and wait a year? So it's a toss up.

Marcus Mizelle (1:02:27)
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, and this is a success story as far as the former for you, right? Yeah, it's great.

Julia Max (1:02:35)
Yeah, we got very lucky there. But I feel

like so much of that is because, you know, we had most of our effects were practical, which was really great. Because if it had all been VFX, I don't think, I don't think that would have worked.

Marcus Mizelle (1:02:43)
Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm just constantly updating the link that I send to, know, of course, like just update the link, update the link. Hopefully they didn't want to yet. But anyways, okay. So Shutter, how did you get, you just submitted to them, Cole, you had somebody, your management probably submitted to them, And they watched it.

Julia Max (1:02:58)
yeah.

Yeah.

well, we had

our sales agents a bluefinch. They slipped it to Shutter a little bit early. yeah, Shutter was like, we want it. We've got a May 23 slot. We think this will be great for it. And we're like, yeah, we're like, awesome. Let's do it. So yeah, I feel incredibly lucky because Shutter is absolutely the perfect platform for this. You know, I think it would get lost in the shuffle if it were to drop on.

Marcus Mizelle (1:03:20)
Damn, that was their response. Damn, amazing.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Julia Max (1:03:37)
just a regular streaming service, you know, but having a horror specific one with like, this is our target audience exactly, you know.

Marcus Mizelle (1:03:38)
For sure. Yes.

It's just this perfect little shingle, right?

Yeah, no, that's so good. And it makes you think, like, where are the other kind of, like, shingle, I don't wanna say shingle, but like the other kind of genre-specific platforms? Like, you don't see a lot. Shudders definitely nailed that hard. They're the horror platform, right?

Julia Max (1:04:01)
Yeah,

it's surprising to me that we don't see more of that with other genres, because I feel like that would be helpful.

Marcus Mizelle (1:04:08)
I mean, horror just shows you the health of the horror genre, how healthy it is. But I wonder, yeah. And also you can make them ⁓ without any people, the people that love horror, lot of people that love horror are very, they don't care about a famous person, right? It's on a celebrity medium almost, whereas opposed to comedies and other films. Yeah, who's in it? Who's in it?

Julia Max (1:04:13)
yeah, horror is always going.

Yes, it's really great.

It's really wild to me how, yeah,

horror is really the only genre you can get away with not having big celebre- like the big top A-listers that everyone recognizes and knows immediately, like, which every other genre, aside from documentary I'd say, like, requires.

Marcus Mizelle (1:04:49)
Yeah, yeah,

And look, documentaries are healthy right now. I'll take that all day long. But I guess the horror genre, the star of the show is the horror, right? Usually. I mean, it just is. I guess. Okay.

Julia Max (1:04:53)
Yeah.

No. But I do think,

I mean, in The Surrender, it's definitely Kate and Colby. Like they are rocking this. Like they are front and center all the way.

Marcus Mizelle (1:05:05)
fair enough, fair enough, fair enough, fair enough. Nice. I love it.

So any other plans for the surrender? mean it's on shutter so you're just gonna, now you're, did you reach home plate or what else do you might, what else might you have? Is some international stuff going on or?

Julia Max (1:05:21)
Yeah, we're doing our international sales now. We've got a lot of, you know, screenings around LA and New York this weekend, which is fun. ⁓ We're at the Alamo Drafthouse and Look Cinemas. So.

Marcus Mizelle (1:05:30)
⁓ where are you screening this weekend?

Nice. Okay.

So my previous podcast guest, Freddie McDonald, he did a film called So Torn and he was at Alamo last weekend. How cool was that? And Alamo is so good. So good. Yeah. I don't like how they wouldn't let me in last time I went there. I was like 11 minutes late. The parking structure is terrible. How dare you? anyway. ⁓ yeah. My life is so tough. What? Yeah.

Julia Max (1:05:42)
that's awesome. I love that. ⁓ I love Alamo. Their food is fantastic.

⁓ no!

⁓ that's really funny. But yeah, it's exciting

and we're hoping to still do some international festivals. It was, I have to say the one bummer with the Shutter thing is like we had gotten into some festivals that I was really excited to do and then we're like, but this is premiering before so, but you know what? I will take Shutter any day of the week.

Marcus Mizelle (1:06:16)
right, because it was so soon.

South by and shutter

combo, that's a beautiful combo. Congrats. It's beautiful. And the quickness too, like you expediting it that way. my God, it's great. It's so cool. Take it when you can get it, I guess. What do you have next? has this process or this film helped at all as far as next projects? Do you think it will help? I'm sure it will help. What are you, what's going on?

Julia Max (1:06:25)
It is.

It never happens, it's very rare. Exactly.

You know,

I certainly hope so, but to be completely honest, because I feel like we frequently hear these stories where it's like, ⁓ something premiered at Sundance or South By, and the next day, like that director or writer was flooded with offers and all of their projects were greenlit. And like that, sure, it happens. It's very rare. It is not the norm at all. Like, so.

Marcus Mizelle (1:07:11)
Isn't it the truth?

Julia Max (1:07:14)
No, that didn't happen. ⁓ We've gotten

Marcus Mizelle (1:07:14)
Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, but maybe.

Julia Max (1:07:18)
really positive response and feedback. And I have no doubt that like, especially once it's released and more people see it, that this will help in many ways. But honestly, like getting the response from viewers who have seen it and having people say like, ⁓ this really resonated with me because I'm going through something similar or have recently gone through something.

That has been the biggest high through this right now and I think that's the important thing to keep in mind. And in the meantime, I'm still writing and working on a bunch of other projects and we'll see what gets going next. But who knows, it's unpredictable.

Marcus Mizelle (1:07:45)
Nice.

On to the next.

I love it. It's just, it's

just good to go on to the next, right? You're not doing it for the, for the, guess, commercials, whatever, success more so than just like making stuff that you care about.

Julia Max (1:08:09)
Exactly. I mean that's, you know, it's all about the process. If you don't enjoy the process and love that, then why are you doing it? Because it's pretty brutal.

Marcus Mizelle (1:08:19)
go into finance. ⁓

Last question. ⁓ Any last parting words of wisdom that you could give the audience or your younger filmmaking self?

Julia Max (1:08:32)
probably. ⁓

I'd say probably just trust your instincts and find that core team of people who get you and support you and are honest enough to tell you when you're making something not great. Don't surround yourself with a bunch of yes men who are just like, yes to everything. Find that group that you trust that will be honest with you.