E59 • Breaking Taboos and Crafting The Anti-Heroine • Nina Knag, dir. of ‘Don’t Call Me Mama’ at Karlovy Vary, Crystal Globe Competition

Nina Knag’s debut feature, Don’t Call Me Mama, which marks her arrival as a bold new voice in cinema, just premiered at the Karlovy Vary International Film Festival in the Crystal Globe competition. She tackles the taboo subject of relationships between older women and younger asylum seekers through the lens of complex, unapologetic female anti-heroes. Drawing from personal insight and the influence of trailblazing female filmmakers, Knag crafts a story where the setting becomes an active force in shaping narrative and theme. 

She emphasizes the importance of deep collaboration with actors, embracing improvisation and authenticity to capture the complex realities of human relationships. For Knag, filmmaking is as much about the journey as the final cut—each challenge, misstep, and success feeding into a creative process that demands vulnerability, resilience, and a refusal to compromise the heart of the story.

Past films discussed include The Hunt (2012, dir. Thomas Vinterberg), After the Wedding (2006, dir. Susanne Bier), Fish Tank (2009, dir. Andrea Arnold), and the short Wasp (2003, dir. Andrea Arnold).

Introducing the Past Present Feature Film Festival, a new showcase celebrating cinematic storytelling across time. From bold proof of concept shorts to stand out new films lighting up the circuit, to overlooked features that deserve another look. 

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Chapters

• 0:31 Past Present Feature, Hosted by Marcus Mizelle
• 0:50 Nina Knag, director of ‘Don’t Call Me Mama’ at Karlovy Vary, Crystal Globe Competition
• 51:34 Presented by Valerion Projectors

Transcript

Marcus Mizelle (00:03)

Welcome to the past present feature podcast.

Marcus Mizelle (00:20)
Nina Kanag's debut feature Don't Call Me Mama, which marks her arrival as a bold new voice in cinema, just premiered at the Carlo Vivari International Film Festival in the Crystal Globe She tackles the taboo subject of relationships between older women and younger asylum seekers through the lens of complex, anti-heroines.

Drawing from personal insight and the influence of trailblazing female filmmakers, Knog crafts a story where the setting becomes an active force in shaping narrative and She underscores the value of deep collaboration with actors, embracing improvisation and authenticity to capture the messy truths of human relationships. as much about the journey as the final cut.

each challenge, misstep, and success feeding into a creative process that demands vulnerability, resilience, and a refusal to compromise the heart of the story. Past films discussed include The Hunt by Thomas Vinterberg, After the Wedding by Suzanne Fish Tank by and the short film Wasp also by Andrea Arnold.

Marcus Mizelle (01:20)
Your forbidden love drama thriller, Don't Call Me Mama is playing in the Crystal Globe section at Carlo Vivare this year, correct? Yes, it premarised that word premarised. Yeah. It's a pretty big deal. Carlo Vivare is one of my favorite festivals as far as, it really jumpstarted this podcast last year, I feel like. I mean, I did some Tribeca interviews and then I think it was like some handful of other festivals and then I did like

15 or maybe 12 Karlo Bivari interviews. It was like really where I got into what I care about as far as just this really craft driven festival I feel like, know, I like it's the most, I don't know, I feel like it's the Eastern kind of European festival, would you say? What are your views on Karlo Bivari? Let me just ask you that. Yeah, I've never been there, but for me it's, I realize now after we...

were selected for the main competition that it's a big deal. And also some Norwegian films like Joakim Tria started his career in the main competition there. Many years ago with his first film or one of his first films. last year it was also a Norwegian film, Lovable, that won a lot of prizes. it's been, yeah, it's been great start for those films. And I'm hoping that, you know,

It will be a great start for our film. It's crazy. It's already been, well, not quite a year, but it's coming up. It's so nuts when you're inside something, you know, don't call me mama. First of all, is this your first feature or how many have you done? Yeah. This is my future debit, but I've, made a lot of short films and I've had a directed TV series and worked on a lot of long projects, but this is my.

first feature film, yes, as a writer and director. So it's a big deal for me. Yeah, it's a big deal. Well, yeah, to be able to premiere for the Crystal Globe, mean, at Carl Ove is crazy. So in the spring of 2019, you were shortlisted and pitched at the Norwegian Film Institute's New Paths Idea Development and Received Funding from Western Norway Film Center. Give me the origin stories of this project, if you don't mind. Like, how did it, where did it come from? Where did the seed of the idea come from? And then how did you get from there to?

to hear. ⁓

having affairs with young asylum seekers at local asylum centers in Norway. That kind of really shocked me because I met a lot of those young men and also the women who were helping them and I never thought that that would be an issue. that was the starting point and I was really like, wow, this is something I want to dive into. And that was the beginning and of course it has

developed a lot since that first idea because then my first thoughts were in a way I was judging these women and I was shocked and I couldn't relate to them at all but then I started digging into the psychology of it and ⁓ asked myself you know what if this was just you know any women woman ⁓ it could it be me or you could it you know and that was the starting point and ⁓

Even though she crosses some boundaries, the most of us maybe would never do. I thought it was very ⁓ interesting and important to portray her as just, you know, the normal woman. It's like she does seem like a respectable woman, right? And she's married to the mayor, is that correct? Yeah, she's married to the mayor in a small village in Norway, and she's high school Norwegian teacher.

Yeah. She's having this affair with this asylum seeker. Yes. I guess the dynamic of like making her feel like a character like this that you can root for, I guess, or stay with or whatever you want to say. How tricky is that dynamic? You know, somebody who's doing these dirty deeds, but also the audience is sticking around to see what happens to her. Like, why would why would we care for someone, you know, doing this? Yeah. I think that was part of what

I was interested in because I feel that a lot of men are in film are portrayed in, you know, you have Sucranas, you have all these male characters that we both like and ⁓ hate, you know, because- The anti-hero? Yeah. But it's not that often we see female anti-heroes. It's It was really important to be able to do that with this

feel my character and also ⁓ to have that complexity in a character that we feel with her, we like her but then she does some choices that makes her resent her. But then it's like this balance all the time and that's, you know, human and I wanted to portray her in an honest way even though that she does some

really cynical choices. Yeah. It's like Don Draper, Mad Men, right? I love that show. What a dirt bag, really. Like it's like mesmerizing that just to see and to be a voyeur in his. Yeah, the antihero of it all. I that was a big let's talk about that. Let's talk about antiheroes for a minute then, because it's such an interesting thing. ⁓ I wrote a crime film once and it was a criminal as hero specifically, and that's not easy to do.

as far as how do you get people to actually care about this person? ⁓ And I think within the criminal is hero, it's like whoever he's against is even worse than him is kind of one trick, feel like, even more despicable than him. But as far as an anti-hero inside of a thriller, inside of a drama with thriller elements. And so when you're building out this anti-hero character, when you're writing it, let's talk about that. Like, did that look for you?

you know, it's gradually changed in the character because I really wanted the audience to like her from the beginning and respect her and not portray her as this needy middle-aged woman. I wanted her to be cool and strong and, you know, light and that was a really difficult balance because it had to be something in her also to make her a

being able to fall in love with this young guy. So there are some scars from her marriage that I didn't want to go too much into details, but that made her maybe more vulnerable, but I didn't want the audience to feel sorry for her, but understand that there's something in her that's broken. And maybe that's ⁓ part of ⁓ why she's open to, or...

she has this strong need to be seen because she's a woman in an age where you know she feels that she's not seen anymore and maybe she feels she lost her sexuality and her connection with her husband and then she meets this young man and it's not only sexual attraction but it's also that he makes her feel seen and

makes him feel more than just an immigrant, you know. She sees a talent in him. So they have, they both need each other. They need to connect with another human being because he's all alone. Ami, the 18 year old Ami, he's all alone in Norway. He doesn't have anyone and she feels alone because she lost the connection to her husband. And that's what brings them together.

Which is a hugely relatable thing for anybody that's ever been in a relationship, right? Probably. It happens. Yeah, this disconnect or whatever. But that's starting point. And then, you know, she falls in love with him. That was important for me. That she actually falls blindly, even though you say, is that possible? She's end of her 40s, he's 18. But I think it is when you're crazy in love, you know? You know, it develops and then we sort of understand that this can't be, you know?

And then ⁓ it develops into something darker because it can't last between them. And when she feels that he sort of betrays her, then it's the turning point for the character. So in ways, she's like the hero going anti-hero. And that was very interesting for me to have that shift, but it's not like black and white. It's never.

and white and none of the characters I want to be black and white is all the gray zones and the complexity of being a human being, know, with good and bad sides. Yeah. So building this character out, mean, that's like, did you, did you identify like her, I don't know, like attachment styles, her love languages? Is there any of that kind of stuff? How deep did you go with like who this person is as a realistic character? When it comes to like her past relationships, like, there anything that goes back to her childhood?

I have thoughts about that when I'm writing of course, but it's really important for me when I cast the film. Pia Celta who plays the main character, Eva, she was involved in the project like one and a half year before the shooting. she's a character, she's like a fantastic Norwegian ⁓ actress and I'll just...

understood right away when I met her that she doesn't have any need for me to have all these analyzes about the characters. She has had to find it herself and that's work she does. So it'd be a question for her. ⁓ Also herself, but I wrote it. then in the last year before the shooting, she was also involved the last drafts of the script and also

And Christopher Jonah who plays her husband, I had a lot of conversation with him as well building that character because he was helping me making that character also more complex. So this is like an ongoing development for me together with the actors and that's really important. But of course I had thoughts about her, how she was, you know, that she...

had been together with her husband since she was 18 and that she actually dreamt about being a writer herself but she never went with that and now she meets this young man who has this talent that she maybe has to show you know what so that's it's under these little things that make complete sense right I had it in my head you know I come from a

family full of teachers. So I guess that's why I chose an Norwegian teacher. know, all this, Okay, cool. Talk about the working with the actors ⁓ when you've got your script and then you're collaborating with them on the next drafts. You do you go, do you have rehearsals with them? have reads and then you go in and they massage the dialogue and then you apply it to the next draft. Is it like that for you? What's your process like as far as polishing that script and getting it ready for production?

In the beginning it's more conversations. They were reading and then I just had a lot of conversations with them about what they thought was good and not so good. And then in the last rounds of the script development, actually, I had a co-writer, Katrine Vanlenssenna, who helped me with the dialogue to make it

better and you know it's a low budget film. We had 20 days of shooting so the script was long and we had to narrow it down so she really helped me with that and also the actors in the end we had readings and then we rehearsed and read out the lines and then they you know we correct things. Sure.

Yeah, so and then I rewrote it in the end with the actors own words Yeah, it's it's interesting how you know this is compared to post-production because you're still like you're massaging you're you're playing around you're turning it to the side and looking at it this way you're and then you're going back into it and saying okay, maybe this is something that we could do right it's like so cool when you think about it that way

I've been doing documentaries for a minute, but fiction filmmaking is totally, yeah, it's just ⁓ that first phase of getting that script, just not rushing it, but getting it just right and collaborating with the right people to massage, I keep wanting to say this word. And it reminds me of my editing. ⁓ I believe in story consultants. I've been doing that a lot with this last doc where it's just handing it to these two trusted people who are great at notes, fresh eyes, qualified.

and they give me back these wonderful things that I just missed or maybe knew but didn't want to know, know, or confirm. Like same thing with this kind of script molding process, know, it's get it. This is the devil is in the details with these things. so agree with you because it's like some screenwriters are afraid of letting people involved. Yeah. ⁓

For me, it's like the opposite because when I'm writing the script and I have this idea for so many years, know, in the end, I'm blind, you know, I need feedback and I have to listen to the actors and I'm really happy that, you know, I worked with this script for so many years alone and I had a consultant helping me, of course, but in the end, it was scary, but also I'm so happy that I handed the script.

to Katrine and she took the two last rounds without me because then I had so many darlings that had to be killed and I don't think that I have them myself. And we were shooting in 20 days. This film would not be able to, it wouldn't have been able to do it if we didn't do that actually. So it was like.

make it a record. 20 days. It was 79 pages, the script in the end. the film is, it's one hour 44 minutes, think. Whoa. Okay. That means that the script was really tight, but that's, and the scenes were tight. But then I...

Was able to work freely with the actors and amazing. ⁓ that's how I love to work. You know, I have this Team but I can also make it Come alive, you know, rise a little bit and just stay in the scenes without actors Saying anything and just letting the camera roll and we were filming handheld camera Okay, wait a minute 79 page screw up ended up being

100 minutes. So, okay, so you gained 21 more minutes, roughly a page equals a minute, right, the rule of thumb. So how did that happen as far as you just let, once you were filming, you guys let it breathe and you played around and you just let the, you put some air back into it, obviously, right? I'm known for just letting the camera roll and I never say thank you or cut because I think that it's when in the end,

of a scene or take or in the beginning, whether the actors maybe are not really in the scene, that sometimes the magic happens, you know? ⁓ Or if you just stay with them and see what happens. And I always tell my actors like, just follow your instincts, be in the scene, see what happens. And I think also that's how a lot of like, especially Fiann Christopher, who are very...

experienced actors, love this way of working and just having, you know, the freedom. But they were also really, it was also really important for them to have a good script. But if you have a good script, can also allow yourself to be free. But if you have a crappy script, it's not easy to be free. So in a way, I think it's just, and then of course, since we had 20 days, me and the DOP, Alvilde Natasdaho.

who did a great job and we decided that, you know, we have to have a plan to be able to film a lot. So we were lighting it. We had a few locations like the house they live in. All the rooms are in the same house, so we didn't have to. And we also filmed ⁓ handheld.

being able to follow the characters, the actors, you know? Gotcha. And we almost didn't have rehearsals when we were shooting. We just filmed the rehearsals also. Amazing. Okay. Wait, okay, cool. This is, I love it. I love how y'all make movies over there. It seems like there's a bit of a thread. And when I do eventually go back to fiction from documentary, I'm gonna be more prepared for this kind of filmmaking because I was too control. I feel like I made three fiction micro-budget features.

before I switched to Docs three Docs ago. And yeah, what I would take back with me now is to let things happen more, you know, like, because too much control is, will suffocate, at least in my experience, will smother it. And then you have this wooden thing, kind of, know, with Docs, what Docs taught me was,

I love real life. It's so good. It just gives you so many things. And really the best directing sometimes is to do nothing, to allow, to let things happen. Not even that you're really letting them, but just to not step in sometimes. know, the precision of not knowing when to not step in is a big deal. So it's cool when I talk to fiction filmmakers and they're really good at that aspect, you know, where letting the kind of letting the real world play out as opposed to, you know, the

the severe dramatic example would be, you missed the period in my script, you know, of course, that's silly. But ⁓ so, I mean, there's such benefit to that, right? But I just have to say that I don't think I could work like that if I didn't have all the time I had prior to the shooting, all the conversations and rehearsals with the actors. I didn't actually rehearse that much with Pia and Tarek, who plays Amir because I...

wanted to keep the natural tension and excitement between them anyway. I didn't want them to get to know each other too well actually, but I had a lot of readings and conversation with both of them separate so that we've been talking a lot about

the characters, the motivations in the scenes, you know, where I wanted it and where they... So that I knew that they understood where I wanted to go with the scenes and with the film. So that was really important for me. Gotcha. So you were careful about maintaining what you thought their headspace should be in relation to the script in the film. Because I think it's, if you have all this time to prepare and talk about things, when you're on set, then it's not any...

almost didn't have to direct them, you know, because that's when they do their work. just know what they're doing. They have their inner work. They've done their research. Pia is amazing in that way. She analyzes the characters in her own way. I don't, you know, I respect what she's doing and she did an amazing job and she has this inner work that I don't know where she takes it from. And Farrek, he's of course younger and not that experienced, but he just

did so much research on being a refugee from Syria and he even wrote the poems that the character reads in the script. He wrote them himself and he'd never been writing before. So when he sent me a draft of the poems, because he just told me, you know, I can try to write something. And then he went to some poetry readings and then he...

sent it to me and I was sitting in a restaurant in the city on summer day and then I read it and I started crying because it was so strong. that was really... And when things like that happens, I could never have written those poems, you know? And we actually know how to do this and it just pulled itself out, you know? So that's magic.

It's weaving real life things into it as opposed to trying to control too much. I have to gush over the documentary form. It gives me so many cra- I love that I only get one take. I love that part. I love it. I'm a cinematographer too, so I love the film. It's attached to my filmmaking style. The best moments are just me framing it and doing what I can with-

doing what I can with the limitations that I have, you and a really nice camera. And ⁓ the moments that you get, could never, if I were writing it, it wouldn't, it would not be as good. No. 99.9 % of the time. know, so yeah. Yeah, but that's, I guess that's the magic. And sometimes I think,

Maybe I should do documentary when you're talking about it. I mean, but the way that you I feel like the way that European filmmakers are especially it seems like from from my you know year of talking to them a lot of them it seems like so well done with like the autobiographical elements, know, bringing in really seems like there's a maintenance of that that aspect, you know, where it's it's it's realism, of course, but it's also just like attaching this autobiographical into these fiction pieces. ⁓

even if it's just by technique or if it's based, a lot of times it seems like it's based on the filmmakers, you know, real life in a way where like you're telling stories you need to tell and what you know and need to get out versus, you know, doing something that's just specifically genre, I guess, forward. know, so anyways, I think the documentary slash ⁓ fiction film that's got those autobiographical elements, they're very similar in a lot of ways, you know.

like auto fiction and docu fiction. There's a lot of manipulation in that too. mean, I'm not making just observational cinema, you know? That's what the non-manipulated, I guess, even that's manipulated once you make a cut, once you decide to not show this and to show this. But how far can you take it before it's not documentary anymore? Or how far can you take a fiction piece before it's not fiction anymore? You know? I love this space right now these days, this whole thing.

It's like the European filmmaker seems to really be made built for docs as well as fiction, I guess. You should make a documentary. Yeah. It was a scene in the script that I changed the day before because I had these poems very late and then I knew I have to put them in because also to feel more with the character, Amir, because he's not the main character, is, but I...

It was so important for me also to have his point of view in some elements of the film, even though we see her point of view. And then I have a scene where they're sitting in his bedroom and ⁓ he reads a poem he has written about his background and, you know, being a refugee, fleeing the war in Syria and missing his mom and his family. And, you know, it's very...

And that's the first time he reads out loud the poem to Pia who plays Eva. Because we didn't want her to hear it before we actually shot the scene. And that's one of him reading it because what happened was, and also he wrote it, the actor, Tarek wrote it himself. I think he was very nervous to read it out.

So I think that as his person, Tarek was also a bit like, oh shit, am I gonna read this? And then you have the character Amir, that this means a lot to, know, reading these words out loud. And then his reaction was that he started crying and it was so strong. And then, you know, she didn't know that that would happen. So we had all this...

things going on that were not planned and that made that scene for me one of the strongest scenes because it's real, right? That's what you're trying to capture here. Real authenticity, And that's what I love it when that happens. yeah. Awesome. Yeah. You can't plan that, you know, and that's why I have to be open. For me, it's always, you know, I'm really trying to be just open to what happens. So because that's

and not being in control always. But of course sometimes I'm stressed and I have to, you know, and you have little time then, but you ruin it. You're ruining it. It's balance thing. Double-edged sword thing. My brain goes to a place. I used to be a lighting guy. I was a grip for seven years on big movies, shows and movies, American stuff, And anyways, I'm thinking about just like the variety of approach, you know, and most of it was not...

this style of letting things, I mean, there was a lot of amazing, it was a lot of gloss, a lot of control, a lot of control imposed. And a lot of that, the more control was imposed, the less ⁓ engaging the end result was, you know, ⁓ I would say. I mean, when it comes to actually like directing styles and, know, but also it was a different time. I think realism is alive and well these days, especially in, I mean, always in European cinema.

And I think even in American, like the good American stuff, and of course, like other parts of the world. ⁓ So I think to get to the realism part, yeah, you do have to, you almost got to let go of the gloss. But right now it's like this verite, this realism is the thing that we all kind of want to see. I get really excited about that's what's going to work best as a viewer trying to ⁓ connect to your material on an emotional level.

but also it doesn't cost anything extra. You don't need to make it. You don't need all these people and all this gloss. don't want it. I don't want it. I want it to look good. I want it to have its cinematic language, but like these techniques are free, you know? And the good news is like the emotional connection is the main ingredient. Anyways, moving on. ⁓ Okay, production 20 days. You shot all handheld, the whole film? Not all, but a lot.

It just made sense for the kind of tone of the film or what were your other reasons for that? Yeah, it was because I wanted it to have this sense of realism but of course if we would have had a lot of money I guess we... I wanted the camera to be very up close to the characters and for me I tried filming handheld but it's like with a steady camera.

course, it's not like handball, very... It's floating around, okay. Yeah. I tried also, I made some short films that were very composed like photography, but for me, I wanted to go back to being able to follow the characters and being free with them because I think that's when you have that authenticity. Yeah. Authenticity that...

⁓ I want as a director. So ⁓ yeah, and I think that's the reason I wanted to work freely with them and also yeah, but to have like me and the DOP we wanted like a poetic visual language and with lot of close-ups but also in contrast

take the camera out and be observing. On the outside, you have a feeling that someone is looking in and watching them. And that was also, you know, I knew all the way that I wanted to film in Odda. It's a Western small city where you have really steep mountains and fjords, and the mountains surrounding it,

the city, it's very claustrophobic in a way. So I wanted to use the mountains and as the story develops, you know, it feels like the mountains and ⁓ we call it like, I don't know if you have an English word for it, but it's like in small village towns, have, you know, people talking and gossiping and the feeling. yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Same. Yeah.

⁓ You call it like any gossiping. Yeah, rumors gossiping small town gossiping. Yeah. Yeah. And you have a feeling that, you know, people are talking in the mountains are threatening and everything's the same everywhere. It's funny, right? Yeah. That way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. don't never know who knows what is it in her head. Does people know? We don't know. And that wasn't the important thing for me. I got you.

I placed it in a small town because of course that's more risky. And that's the big threat of the film, I would assume, right? Or one of her big threats as far as who's going to know, who does know, who can find out the secret is like this thing that I would assume drives the story, right? Yeah, in many ways it is. And of course it's risky, you know, having this affair with a young man. She's trying to help and her husband is going for a new election and...

You know, she's a respected teacher and also involved in his campaign. So it's a lot of things at stake here. Yeah. Just, yeah. Did you ever see The Hunt, Mads Mikkelsen? I love it. Thomas Henteberg? Thomas Henteberg, yeah. That movie was incredible. And I don't know if this is a forced thing here to bring this up, but I got to talk about old movies for a minute. Would you say that there's similar vibes to this? It just makes me think of that movie in a way when it comes to...

public perception, the town square, know, the scarlet letter or whatever. It's like the whole kind of like the pitchforks. I love Danish film and Thomas Winterberg and Susanne Bia and I'm inspired by Danish film and Jokten. has its

It's also a character driven drama thriller, I would say. And you know, it starts with this one small lucky girl telling someone to some grownups and then this just goes out of proportion. You mean the hunt for the hunt? For the hunt. Yeah, it's so brutal. Well done. Wow. yeah, it's a long time since I've...

What about that movie? You can relate it to that, you know, but it's a very different movie, but the small time vibe and the paranoia and... That aspect, yeah, just kind of popped in my head. I'm going to read the Hunt synopsis. A kindergarten teacher played by Mads Mikkelsen. His world collapses around him after one of his students who has a crush on him implies that he committed a lewd act in front of her. So this isn't your direct inspo, but...

I just want to give a little shout out to that movie because it's worth watching. And I think American audiences is a good entry point for an American viewer that ain't used to watching this, you know, European films, Danish films. It's a good entry point. I feel like it's got enough like genre beats to like, you know what I mean? Keep keeping an American viewer interested. Yeah, It's a great film. Is there any direct inspirations like any past films that that you thought of when you were making this film and or?

any past favorite movies that's most inspired you as a filmmaker? Yeah, Thomas Winterberg is one of them. ⁓ as I mentioned, Susanne Bia, also a Danish filmmaker who's made American films also. What's her name again? I'm sorry. Susanne Bia. She made one of my favorite films after the wedding, it's called. Okay. With also with the Mats Mikkelsen.

Okay, okay. Oh, Suzanne Bière after the wedding. Oh yeah, Mads Mikkelsen 2006 after the wedding. Jacob Peterson dedicates his life to helping street children in India and when the orphanage he leads may be closed, he received an interesting offer. A businessman will give him $4 million with no conditions. Jacob must return to Denmark and take part in the wedding of the man's daughter. The event is a crucial meeting of past and future, throwing Jacob into the most intense dilemma of his life. Cool.

It's amazing. heard it's also made, it's a remake, American remake also with two, actually two female characters, but I haven't seen that one. But it's that, you know, she portrays the Danish society, but she also, in contrast, shows other parts of the world. Like, you know, he works, the character works in a...

orphanage in India and then he comes back and then you have the contrast. As a filmmaker also I want to make you know emotional dramas but it's also important for me to look like I have my Norwegian view on the world but I also want to see you know like the refugee subjects that I'm you know

reflecting on in this movie and also the drama series I'm working on. It's about an Afghani, 17-year-old refugee that falls in love with a Norwegian girl and when he's turning 18, the Norwegian immigration office sends him back to Afghanistan and he has to escape. So it's a road movie with his Norwegian girlfriend. So I like to tell stories that are both

local but also universal. I think that's what I'm inspired by with, for example, Susanne Bia. And also Andrea Arnond. ⁓ She always comes up on this podcast. You know, since I started filmmaking, she's been an inspiration, especially Fish Tank and the social. A fish tank. like, when I first saw this movie,

I was just like, wow. That was one of the earlier movies where I was like, it's a great movie to watch as an independent filmmaker. And then later I'm like, Andrea Arnold did that? Yeah, she just keeps on keeping on. She's a big female director and you know, it's not a lot of female directors out there. Badass, right? I mean, independent. She's not somebody that the average American viewer would know about.

You know, or she doesn't go and do Marvel movies or whatever, but it's like her films are so nice and like as an independent filmmaker, she just gives you hope in general, you know? It's like, look at the career that one could have. Look at these filmography is incredible. You know, that's what I care about. And from her short films, also one called Wasp. It's great. And you can see from that work that it's very relatable to.

a fish tank. So it's very interesting for me also because I made a lot of short films to be able to make long film, know, that's in Norway, that's the way you're working yourself up anyway. And I'm so happy that I did all these short films because that's how I learned making films. How many shorts have you done? What would you I like in a professional way after my studies, I made like

two with like a budget. And then I made three when I was a student and some of them, like my exam film, we sold to the state channel and it went around all the world in the festival circus. it's, but I didn't have any money making it, you know, but so, so I made, think like four or five short films that's like screened around the world. Yeah. Nice. Very cool.

Yeah, I used to ⁓ give myself a thing. I give myself a little test of like I'm gonna write I'm gonna spend this next week. I was bored and broke I'm gonna spend 20 years ago. I'm gonna give myself a test I'm gonna give myself one week to write something and then and a week after that I have to film it It's like a one little like a scenario type short film We did that so many times and that was a great way to cut the teeth Just like basically a good way to also just do what you say you're gonna do be consistent focus on one thing keep it simple

I got better at what I was doing, what I was trying to do. And it cost nothing. Come on, man, you don't need no money. Just go do it. Obviously, you know, if you got a little resources, that's really helpful. But just thinking about the filmmaker that's out there that might be listening where, you know, just go shoot the damn thing. Yeah, I agree. For me, it's like I can don't give up, you know, because I...

I don't know if this is a long time, but I graduated from film school in 2010 and now it's 2025 and now I'm premiering my first feature film. like 10 years ago, I thought I was gonna make a film, you know? Like I was sure I was gonna do that and it didn't happen, you know? And a lot of the times I wanted to give up and I was like, no, this is not gonna happen, but...

I just didn't have a plan B. then, but I realized now during those 15 years, I learned so much about filmmaking, also writing and developing ⁓ long ⁓ scripts and TV show series that's never been made. You know, I got all this, you know, development, fundings, and I have scripts that are not, you know, maybe I will make them one day or maybe not.

But doing that I learned a lot and then also I couldn't earn a lot of money with the short films and trying to make it with the long films. So I started my own casting agency. So that's how I funded my artistic career was also working as a casting director.

It's an intrusive question, but it's like, how do you make money while being a filmmaker? You know? But it's an important real thing. I have a production company. That's how I do it. But it's like whatever you got to do, you know? Like post-production specifically seems to be healthy for me. Because like making films, this is an expensive hobby. Let's be honest. mean, come on. Like maybe you'll make your money back, but either way, it's not like a money-making thing to be a filmmaker. So you got to have that side hustle. Casting makes sense. Yeah. And also...

To be honest, ⁓ if you're a director and you never direct, you just develop and develop and develop. You don't have the, you're not practicing your directing skills or, you know, working with actors and being a casting director. had a lot of training with this. So I think that I felt confident when I was finally directing my first feature film.

because I'm not afraid of actors because I'm used to working with them as a health director and also with amateurs and with young people and kids. And actually I have more experience working with amateurs and young people than experienced actors. So now when I was working with the best actors in Norway, it was kind of a luxury for me because I'm used to working with...

⁓ a lot of young actors who are not trained. I'm a director, I've never been trained as an actor or actress but during my development as a director I've been on a lot of ⁓ acting courses to understand the craft of acting so actually I was one month in LA

in Ivana Tjapac's studio. don't know if you've heard about her. Yeah, of course. yeah, yeah. have a lot of actor friends. They always talk about these things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have one month to learn from her. And I thought I was going to go there to be like, just sit beside her and watch her working with actors and learning that way. Because I told her, I'm a director. I just want to see how you work.

how we work with actors and then I came there and then suddenly I was like told that now you're not a director you're an actress and you're gonna work with scenes with professional actors and you're gonna put up the scene in one week and you're gonna work and I was I had so much anxiety during that that month I was like crying in the evenings I I was so afraid of you know it was horrible

But then it was the best thing I've ever done because I learned so much about myself and about... Pain is power. Yeah. And just also digging into myself and sharing and learning, you know, how it is to be an actor. So I would recommend that to everyone who wants to work with That's very good information. Something good to think about.

Growth requires discomfort, right? I mean, you just gotta, to get something new in your tool belt, gotta, yeah, it doesn't just come for nothing, right? Work that muscle out. Okay, last question for you then. I mean, because you kinda answered it, I was gonna ask you, I'll ask you right now. ⁓ What is like the one big thing, if there is one big thing, or what comes to your mind, if you could go back in time and tell your earlier filmmaking self something? What would that be?

that you know, don't think so much about what comes ahead and ⁓ that if I make this long film I will be happy and you know, if I make that, ⁓ that's my goal. You just have to realize that it's the process also is really interesting and life is interesting. So everything that happens to you in your personal life.

And if it goes to hell or if it's good, it's you can use all this and you will just develop as a human being and also then you will develop as a filmmaker so I didn't think about I was always chasing something in my future, but then now I realized that everything you know happens for a reason and and also the process

learned me so much and I'm really, I appreciate it. And of course I'm very happy that I am able to now, now I have it like a future film, but I realized that it was the process up until now that yeah. all makes sense now. The past and the future is very interesting human ⁓ made things, aren't they? Yeah, it is. It's just all we have are a series of now moments.

But it's the way we view what just happened is what we call the past. And like you can get stuck in the past and you can definitely the future the same way, you know, where you're thinking too far ahead. Being in the now. know this podcast is called Past, Present, Future, but that's why I'm obsessed with even the concept of time. know, like nostalgia is fun and great. And looking back and appreciating things is good. We don't stay too long there. Same with the future, I think, you know, where...

your expectations and your entitlements start building as you start thinking too much about the future. And then when you don't get what you thought maybe you deserved or whatever the future you thought you would have doesn't happen, what happens? You get upset. It's like being in the now is a pretty good thing to try to do, I guess. Yeah, it's difficult. But also I want to say that ⁓ you will have so many no, no, no's. And I had so many and...

you get used to it and then you just don't have to take it like it's not life and death, you know? And that's why I'm always telling especially young actors that who wants to go that direction in life and I'm always telling them, you know, just don't be too disappointed when you go from this audition and you don't get the part because it's so many factors that... It's not personal a lot of times, right? It feels like it.

Because then you will have a horrible life if you're gonna go, you know, down every time you get this one. And then it will be horrible. But how cool to like go through that and then finally tell yourself, I don't have to react this way. That's one thing I can control. Yeah. me 40 years to understand that almost. Yeah, but you know, now I'm 41 and I think maybe it has to do with, you know, life happened. Realize that it's not life and death if I'm gonna make

this film or if I get a rejection or something like that, you know. You got to, yeah. I'm such a hippie almost now these days where it's like, okay, that's just the universe doing its thing. That's my hope. That's mine. But it like, that gives me comfort. It's like, know that it's going to make sense later. You if I'm trying to force something and it's not working, then it ain't supposed to work. Probably. Yeah. No. Yeah. I agree. I think we have to think like that to survive this life. Ended with this.

We're blessed because we get to make movies while we're here. Yeah, we are. Right? Yeah, I feel. I love what I do and as I told you, I never had a plan B, so I still don't know what I would do. Same. I'm not doing this, so. Same. Congratulations to your premiere. And I'm sure Karlovy is going to be so wonderful. Thank you. It was really nice talking to you, Marcus.

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and let us know in the comments section what movies you're watching. Thank you so much for listening to the Past Present Feature podcast and we'll see you next time. Peace.