E60 • From Stroke Survivor to Digital Age Storyteller • AUDUN AMUNDSEN, dir. of ‘Click the Link Below’ at Doc Edge

Norwegian filmmaker Audun Amundsen, director of Click the Link Below, which premiered at Doc Edge in Auckland, follows online gurus like Akbar Sheikh and Tai Lopez to show how engagement algorithms reward extremes and blur value with hype. 

Audun traces an unlikely path from renewable energy engineer and backpacker to documentarian, surviving a stroke at 23 before returning to Indonesia that resulted in his previous documentary Newtopia, a 15-year chronicle of a community’s shift from barter to money, with a focus on human nature over gloss. 

He also cites his earlier feature Help! I’ve Gone Viral, plus inspirations like Juan Carlos Rulfo’s In the Pit and Tarantino’s Pulp Fiction. Audun champions smart self-distribution, keeping VOD rights and building film funnels, and urges filmmakers to research financial backers, lead with value, and market your film as thoughtfully as you shoot.

Tickets @ pastpresentfeature.eventive.org

12 films. 3 nights. 1 Collective. The Past Present Feature Film Festival is a curated, three-day showcase of cinematic storytelling across time, highlighting overlooked gems, current festival hits, and future feature films in the making. Sponsored by The Past Present Feature Podcast and Leica Camera, all screenings take place Nov. 19 – 21 in Hollywood, CA, at the Eastwood Performing Arts Center (1089 N OXFORD AVE, 90029)

The Past Present Feature Film Festival - Nov. 19-21, 2025 in Hollywood, CA - Tickets at pastpresentfeature.eventive.org

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Chapters

• 1:56 Introducing the Past Present Feature Film Festival, Sponsored by Leica Camera
• 2:25 Past Present Feature, Hosted by Marcus Mizelle
• 2:44 Audun Amundsen, dir. of ‘Click the Link Below’ at Doc Edge
• 47:19 Presented by Valerion Projectors

Transcript

Marcus Mizelle (00:50)
Norwegian filmmaker Auden Amundsen, director of Click the Link Below, which just premiered at Dock Edge in Auckland, follows online gurus like Tai Lopez show how engagement algorithms reward extremes and blur value with

Aldun traces an unlikely path from renewable energy engineer and backpacker to documentarian, surviving a stroke at 23 before returning to Indonesia create a documentary called Newtopia,

a 15-year chronicle of a community shift from barter to money with a focus on human nature over gloss. He also cites his earlier feature, Help, I've Gone Viral, plus inspirations like Juan Carlos Rulfo's In the Pit and Tarantino's Pulp Fiction. Auden champions smart self-distribution, keeping VOD rights and building film funnels

urges filmmakers to research financial backers, and market your film as thoughtfully as you shoot.

Audun (01:44)
I'm here in Auckland.

Marcus Mizelle (01:46)
congratulations to you for premiering your new film at Dock Edge, right? Was the first that was a world premiere?

Audun (01:49)
Yeah, yeah,

that was the world premiere.

Marcus Mizelle (01:53)
Click the link below. I'm just gonna jump in.

you're a Norwegian filmmaker and you started your career in 08, it says you first received a grant from the Norwegian cultural department for your film, Newtopia, and you've directed co-produced film and wrote Newtopia during a period of 15 years. Whoa, let's talk about that.

Audun (02:00)
Hmm.

Yeah, that was a

long, long, long adventure. I mean, I didn't know that I was going to make films, actually. was just jumped right into it and I didn't have any background in it. I'm actually a renewable energy engineer. So I didn't, you know, I just went as a...

young backpacker in 2004, traveling, was going three months in India and I lost my plane ticket back home and ended up staying in Southeast Asia for two

Marcus Mizelle (02:39)
click the link below the trailer and you're in your films, right? You're in Newtopia as well, looks like. Norwegian backpacker, Lodun Olminsen seeks utopia, joining Amman Paksas tribe in Indonesia's jungle. He spent 15 years witnessing their turbulent journey. Damn.

Audun (02:43)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am,

Marcus Mizelle (02:55)
Okay, so let's talk about that project, because it kind of starts with the opening question too of like your origin story as a filmmaker. You didn't know you wanted to be a filmmaker. You didn't plan on

Audun (02:55)
Yeah.

Yeah, you know, when I came back home after those two years in Southeast Asia and I met Ama Paksa, the character in my film Utopia. And when I was there, I wanted just to get away, as far away from my own culture as possible. So I went deep in the jungle in...

on an island called Mentawai outside of Padang in south or western Sumatra. And I stayed there for about one and a half month at the time in 2004. When I came back home, I just couldn't leave that, the jungle and traveling, it was so interesting to me. So I just figured, okay, I...

want to make a film about the tribe people living there. And then I just started saving up money to do that. So I was like young and stupid, just saving money and trying to get all my production gear and learning everything about filmmaking and producing. And eventually I...

I was ready to go, but then two days before I was going to the jungle again to make my film, had a stroke, a brain stroke. So I was totally paralyzed. My whole right side, totally paralyzed. I couldn't speak. I couldn't eat. I couldn't do anything. ⁓

Marcus Mizelle (04:15)
⁓ Whoa.

Whoa.

Damn.

Audun (04:28)
By that time, I also had gotten some funding from the Norwegian Cultural Department to make this film. And I just wrote them, okay, I got a brain stroke. I am going to live in half a year. And of course, after half a year, I needed a heart surgery, which the doctors thought it was the cause of this brain stroke. So I was training, training, training, training constantly for a year. And then...

Marcus Mizelle (04:47)
my god.

Audun (04:53)
Eventually I got better. I was very lucky because it was only the movement, not cognitive area of my brain. So then I was 20.

Marcus Mizelle (05:02)
How old were you when that happened?

Audun (05:07)
23 was it?

Marcus Mizelle (05:08)
Wow, because we're always thinking,

I mean, I'm thinking, you know, that kind of stuff doesn't happen until later in one's life, right? But no, you hear these stories. That's crazy. Well, it's good to have you back. You seem normal now. You seem good. You worked your way back.

Audun (05:16)
Yeah, it's crazy.

I don't know about normal, but yeah, no, it's been a crazy ride actually. And then, you know, I had to start using, spending my money that I had been saving up for this project. And then I bought a lottery scratch card and I won.

Marcus Mizelle (05:25)
I spoke too soon.

Audun (05:42)
Not that much, but like $15,000. So it was enough to get back what I've spent and then, you know, yeah. And then I bought a one-way ticket to Indonesia and then I stayed the longest period, continuous period in the jungle, which was about three years. So I, you know, I speak Mentawai and...

Marcus Mizelle (05:45)
Damn.

The universe is just playing games with you. sounds like that's crazy.

Audun (06:04)
I learned it through Indonesian. It's an unwritten I just said that, now we're talking about Utopia and that's cool.

Marcus Mizelle (06:06)
Can we hear some? I'm just curious.

Wow, okay, wow, there's a lot to okay, wait, wait, wait. So a lot of this podcast seems to be, ⁓ it naturally kind of comes around to like these moments in these, in people's lives where it's like the kind of the hardest or the struggle moments, you know? And then to discover like what came after that, the good stuff that came after that. So like you just hit me with a big one. You had a stroke, you were paralyzed. Your whole body, you said was paralyzed mostly?

Audun (06:33)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (06:42)
or your whole right side, okay. Damn, then, okay, so you started doing rehab or physical therapy, all this. How long did that process take until you were back to somewhat functional?

Audun (06:42)
My whole right side. Yeah, yeah

About a year. And after a year I was like, okay, I'm gonna leave for the jungle. I'm going there. And the doctors were like, no, no, no, you're not going anywhere. I was like, no, fuck it, I'm going. And then I bought my one-way ticket, ended up staying for three years. Actually, I was staying for a year, but it went on. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (06:56)
a year.

Nice.

Is that the good thing? Yeah.

Is that the good thing that is that one of the good things that happened from that bad from from that experience that struggle you realize more so what you what you wanted to do more clearly?

Audun (07:25)
I guess in a way, but for me I just blocked it out when I was down when I came down there landed a plane in Indonesia again, I Never thought about that incident again. I was just like BAM. It's it's gone. I took my blood thinners because I needed to take blood thinner medicine, but No, I just didn't think about it and I guess being in the jungle

made me better because I was balancing on trees and I was walking barefoot for three years and that kind of stuff. So I guess that made me feel better. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (07:56)
Okay, connected back with nature.

I mean, yeah, right? It seems like the solution

to so many things is just putting your bare feet on the earth. Wow, wow. Okay, so then you, that was, then you, yeah. What happened after that? Newtopia, okay.

Audun (08:09)
Yeah, yeah,

So I came back in 2008. 2008, I

came back to the jungle. So took me like four years until I was feeling good and going back again to the jungle.

Marcus Mizelle (08:30)
Okay,

wow dude. Okay, question, why did you feel the need to, can I use the word escape from your Norwegian culture or what made you wanna just detach and go elsewhere?

Audun (08:41)
Yeah, yeah, I guess a part of it was a bit of escapism as well. You know, my life in Norway, my family background, don't really have, I guess I'm a little bit ruthless and I felt like I just wanted to get away from all of that and do my own thing and...

and the people I met there, I got so involved and feels like they're part of my family. I'm actually going back there now after I'm in New Zealand. Because, you know, as you saw in Click the Link below, I got my girlfriend, I fell in love and we now have a kid and the people in the New Topia, they feel like they become ⁓ grandparents. They're calling me up and they want to see the kids.

Marcus Mizelle (09:23)
love that. That's so cool. You know, when you're making a documentary,

I mean, I've made three so far and I'm friends with, I'm really close now with every subject, you know, and that's really, that's better than the doc itself, I think, you know. Pretty cool. Pretty, pretty, pretty cool. Cause you're going through like these huge life moments, right? With these people, you're going to connect. I would think that's so cool.

Audun (09:35)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (09:48)
So, newtopia real quick. So, 15 years, I mean, what did that process look like in a nutshell? mean, how would you, what took place over those 15 years?

Audun (09:55)
Well, three of them I stayed continuously in the jungle, so that was the main filming period, but then I went back and forth, back and forth for longer and shorter periods to film. And then it was, you know, all the applications and all getting funding to make the film, which was quite hard.

Marcus Mizelle (10:00)
Okay.

Okay.

Audun (10:11)
But then eventually in 2020 it premiered, unfortunately a week before Corona started.

Marcus Mizelle (10:19)
Damn.

Wait, where did you premiere it?

Audun (10:20)
That was in...

⁓ damn. Now I can't even remember what it was. Remared.

Marcus Mizelle (10:24)
Haha time

well when you start talking about the kovat period it just everything it's fuzzy. feel like

Audun (10:28)
Yeah, it

is fussy because you know it was Digital Festivals somehow watered out so

the biggest one for me, I guess, was at the Balenale where it won the best international documentary because, you know, Bali, they have this festival which has become quite huge and it's in Indonesia and getting the best documentary from them meant a lot to me because the film was from Indonesia and some of the

Marcus Mizelle (10:56)
Mm-hmm.

Audun (11:03)
You know, from the Western world, I guess the question was like, who am I, you know, to tell these other people's stories and all that, or, you know, white man in the jungle kind of type of people that seen the movie, they know it's a totally different thing. I've, you know, I spent 15 years, I know their language, I know how these people think. I've actually taught an Indonesian.

Marcus Mizelle (11:13)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure,

Audun (11:27)
Indonesian in order to learn his language. ⁓

Marcus Mizelle (11:28)
huh. Wow. Well, I had this conversation with

a few different times with previous guests about, there was a film in Venice called Carissa, Delmar and Jason Jacobs directed it. And Jason is a black guy from South, are they both from South Africa? And Devin was a white guy. Anyways, ⁓ I asked them like, you know, when is it okay in your opinion, you know, to, ⁓

to not be from a culture, but to feel the need to tell it. I said, you're, you have a blessing of some kind from the people of the culture, that should be a seal of approval, I guess. And they agreed, Jason agreed.

Audun (12:06)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (12:08)
little bit.

Audun (12:08)
Yeah.

And I think if you have that viewpoint, you're kind of underestimating.

those people as well because I

People I were living with for so long, they're brilliant, really smart people just as us. It's just that they haven't used washing machines and elevators, you know? So

Marcus Mizelle (12:31)
Mm, right.

Audun (12:32)
It might come across as stupid when you're stepping into a car for the first time and you take off your shoes because you think the car looks so clean and you take off your shoes and you don't know how to get out of the car because you don't know what button to push. And people might think, oh, that's stupid, but it's not stupid because it's just a totally new thing. mean,

just the same as us really, it's just that they haven't had all these things that we had the chance to interact with.

Marcus Mizelle (13:01)
Right,

so Newtopia, I haven't seen it, but so what was the big kind of driving, what were the themes in that movie? What was, cause you know, first movie really does show, I think what a filmmaker is all about in a lot of ways. I mean, what were you gravitating towards

Audun (13:13)
for me, I'm really interested in our human nature, how we react to things, how we adapt and our, you know, future prospects. And I caught this huge cultural paradigm shift in that culture going from, you know, paling oars to motors and barter system to money and

credit cards and you know, like putting signs in the forest to cell phones. I have all that on film during that period and it all happened in this short period. And the way they responded to that, the way they adapted to that situation. And it's a very sad story in a way, but it's also a very warm story where...

You have this friendship between me and this German. and we are as equals, in so many ways. so yeah, it's, I guess human nature is interesting thing. And, ⁓ and also in this, ⁓ click the link below, I think it's more a human story set in a digital environment. So it's two very different jungles.

Marcus Mizelle (14:15)
Ah, I mean, we can all relate to this, you

being on social fact, whatever we say during this conversation, these marketing companies are spying on our voices right now, and I'm gonna get an ad for whatever, right? And then I'm gonna have a click the link below button. So what a relatable thing. What was the jumping off point for this did you click a link and then you started thinking about a doc or what happened?

Audun (14:26)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

you know, thing that really happened was that I was in the jungle during that period when social media established themselves in the world, right? So I kind of missed that thing that happened. So I was busy documenting that cultural paradigm shift in the jungle when I came back home, was like, whoa, what happened here? Is something happened that really changed the world?

Marcus Mizelle (14:46)
Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Wow, that's crazy.

Audun (15:01)
like forever. And so I got on social media and after a while all these people started popping up and telling me how I can get rich online and how I can do all these amazing things. And I had no money because I had just came home from from a long time away. And then I clicked on some of these ads, started buying some courses and hash.

Marcus Mizelle (15:02)
Hmm.

Audun (15:25)
making a short story out of that ended up becoming this film because I realized, hey, this is an actual film. This is something that we are all confronted with on a daily basis now, I think.

Marcus Mizelle (15:34)
Yeah.

is this your second documentary feature?

Audun (15:38)
It's the third I second one is called Help I Gone Viral. So that was also kind of the lead up to the next documentary. It's about a friend of mine, actually, the guy who made the sound design on Utopia and this film. Click the link below.

He was in Indonesia on vacation and he made a song about the food dish in Indonesia, posted it on YouTube and it went viral and became an overnight pop star.

Marcus Mizelle (16:09)
It's

so funny the things that go viral. So funny.

Audun (16:12)
Yeah, we were invited back there and we didn't know what's gonna happen. We were sitting on the plane and we were like, okay, well, is anything special gonna happen? We don't know. But when we stepped off the plane, there was like this hallway of drummers welcoming us to Indonesia. It was crazy. So all kinds of quirky stuff happened after that.

Marcus Mizelle (16:27)
Whoa. Wow. What? Wow.

So click the link below. So, okay, I'm reading briefly. You have this homeless man turned millionaire, right? Digital millionaire. So was that kind of your starting point once you found your character entry or, know? ⁓

Audun (16:41)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, so,

you know, I been clicking on a lot of these ads and trying to do stuff online, ridiculing myself and all that stuff, you know, and then I figured, like, okay, this is film. And then this main character, Akbar Sheikhi, popped up on my social media and I clicked on this ad.

leading into his funnel and eventually I met him online and they did all the sales tactics on me and I documented the whole thing and bought his course. And at that point I kind of knew that I wanted to make a film but I took a risk by buying his course and I didn't know if he wanted to be in the film and eventually I...

He got to know that I'm making a film and he agreed to be in the film. Which I think was brave because, you know, a lot of these gurus and influencers or get rich quick people online, they become very productive about what they're doing. It's hard to get to them. They have a lot of gatekeepers and he...

Yeah, he started opening up.

Marcus Mizelle (17:53)
A filmmaker seeking financial freedom dives into the world of online marketing under the mentorship of Akbar Sheikh, how do you say his last name? Sheikh. A former homeless man turned digital millionaire, but as the cash rolls in and the stakes rise, cracks begin to show. Is this a dream come true or a dangerous illusion? That's a good little synopsis right there. So I mean, what happened next? I mean, you start filming this guy, you start, I mean.

Audun (17:54)
and

Shake Akbar Shake.

Marcus Mizelle (18:17)
Yeah, you started, I don't know, just talk about like the next steps, because I'm curious like how this documentary developed and how a documentary can develop, right?

Audun (18:22)
Yeah.

So most people think that this film, or a lot of people think or hope it's an expose and now finally we're going to catch all these scammers. But then it developed into a human story. As I said, I'm more interested in our human nature, how we respond to things, why we have become like we have become and why the social media has developed as it is today.

So I think those things are more interesting and as the film evolved and I eventually visited Akbar Sheikh in Dallas And we we met and we met several times after that And I got to know him behind the facade of all these social media speed spiel So I think it's the film is kind of

You know, these things when you see it online is very polarizing. Everything is either or or. But the film is not polarizing. It's not really. I didn't want to make that film that is criticizing and trying to catch anyone. Yeah, just showing people and not telling people people have to think for themselves. Yeah, yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (19:22)
You want to be more observational? Kind of an observational? Yeah, nice.

Yeah, yeah, Snake

oil sells, man. Ty Lopez, so did you ever link with him?

Audun (19:35)
Yeah, I met with Ty Lopez a couple of times. met him. I went to LA, I think that was in 2000.

No, that was in 2015 I went to LA.

Marcus Mizelle (19:46)
Okay,

2015, I met Tai Lopez. He gave me, yes, he gave us his house that he was living in the hills. He let us shoot our feature film we did called Actor for Hire. And we shot there for 12 hours and I had to meet him and everything. And I didn't know who the hell he was, but he was pretty normal and cool. And he was like, you should come play some basketball up here whenever. I read a book a day. And he was very interesting, but didn't, this is Hollywood, you know? It's like.

Audun (19:50)
Really?

Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (20:13)
But and then I start seeing all these ads after that and like shit, that's the guy we met That's the guy that gave us the house. He gave me gave us this wonderful house like 500 bucks for the day for 12 hours. It was really a reasonable thing, but I now I see Tai Lopez all the time and I'm just like how funny that we coincidentally met, know what I mean? Just through a I needed a location and somebody that I knew Knew somebody that knew Tai so that's how that went but that's my little Tai Lopez connection

Audun (20:18)
Yeah. ⁓

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow. That's funny. Yeah. thing is, yeah. So I had signed up to one of his courses called 67 Steps. think it was in 2012 or something. And then I went to LA and I came to his office and I met him there and we had a little chat and...

Marcus Mizelle (20:41)
Random as shit. So random. random. Yeah, but same year as you. It was 2015. That's weird.

Audun (21:01)
Yeah, it's so strange to see also his development as this guru, because I started following quite early on. It wasn't even finished with this is 67 steps to, you know, health, wealth, love and happiness. he has evolved as and doing his business.

Marcus Mizelle (21:16)
Yeah.

Audun (21:22)
Yeah, it's quite fascinating how some of these characters do their things. And we met now. I interviewed him in Oslo, actually. He came to Oslo and I interviewed him there for click the link below.

Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (21:36)
So,

okay, mean, do you feel like there is some, you know, for our listeners, do you feel like there's any sort of legitimacy to these folks? You know, what's your takeaway?

Audun (21:45)
Yeah, so that's that's the complex question I think because You know you have these people I intruded my film as well like Mike Winnett Alex Partridge you have coffee Silla in America, they're like huge critics Critics of these people and then yeah, and then these people have a lot of fans and followers and all that so

That's where it becomes so polarizing, either you hate them or either you love them. And for me, it's a little bit in the middle. I feel like, no, it's not all bullshit, you know, but it's the way that they are marketing themselves sometimes is the bullshit factor.

Marcus Mizelle (22:23)
Okay,

sure.

Audun (22:24)
So these people are really, really good marketers. That's the number one thing. They're really good marketers. know how to convince people to give away their money for their services. So, and do they actually provide something of value? mean, some of these people have submerged into topics about marketing and

life matters very extensively and they've been researching that a lot and came up with questions, good questions that demands good answers. And I think, yeah, some of that, you know, when you immerse so much in a topic, then you got to have something to say about

Marcus Mizelle (23:04)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah. Yeah.

Audun (23:05)
that you know that is

sensible and some of they do. That's the thing but it's also a lot of stuff that oh I already knew that this is not something new. I didn't have to pay like a thousand dollars to get that. know basically I think reading books is just

Marcus Mizelle (23:18)
Right.

Audun (23:31)
the best thing, just read

Marcus Mizelle (23:33)
This is literally what Ty was saying back 10 years ago. 10 years ago. You know, I saw it like, well, you know, I do. I've been listening more than

Audun (23:34)
Yeah.

Yeah, but you read a lot of books. can see that from the bookshelf behind

Marcus Mizelle (23:43)
I feel guilt because I don't read enough, if I put it that way. and I'll start some books sometimes and not finish them, but I'm to the point now where,

I do what I can do and don't beat myself up too much. I actually, I'm big on non-fiction books especially and I found this app called Blinkist. I don't if you've heard of this. This is not a paid advertisement, but it's been very helpful because I can't, I don't have eight to 10 hours to listen to a full non-fiction book and a lot of times those books are the same thing over and over again. Blinkist was like, bite sized down into 20 minutes and I'm able to just make breakfast while I learn a whole new topic.

Audun (24:00)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (24:16)
That's been nice. That's been nice. I wouldn't do that fiction with a fiction book, of course. But so yeah, I mean, it's just a newer way to kind of take in the information. But you're right, I think there's so much knowledge out there, right there, or something.

Audun (24:16)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

so appealing.

We want things instantly. And that's where the problem really lies, I think, is with the algorithms, because the algorithms is taking advantage of our bad human traits, that they know that humans want things instantly. We react to scarcity. We react to extreme stuff.

Marcus Mizelle (24:33)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Audun (24:48)
And

so the, the algorithms like Francis Hogan, who is a Facebook whistleblower I interviewed in click the link below. And she said like, okay, so the algorithm is content and engagement based, meaning that they are responding to, okay. So if people engage with this post or add the algorithm things, that's okay. That's a good, that's good content. And

Marcus Mizelle (25:07)
you

Right.

Audun (25:14)
The more,

Marcus Mizelle (25:15)
I give you more.

Audun (25:16)
yeah, and then our human nature is like, okay, the more extreme it is, the more crazy it is, the more responses it will get. And then automatically the algorithm just makes those posts viral. So that could be like crazy content, like eating disorder content, suicidal content, whatever like.

Marcus Mizelle (25:28)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Audun (25:35)
the algorithm just amplifies that whole thing. you know, individually, we know that we don't want a situation like that. But when this whole thing turns into a collective thing, then it's very difficult to control. that's where the problem is. So a lot of these marketers, they are just adapting to that algorithm.

Marcus Mizelle (25:38)
Mm-hmm

interesting.

Audun (25:57)
because they know that they will get more followers and they get more followers, they get more money and then basically it's the way that you have to do your marketing as well. So I think the algorithm has to change if we want to make a healthier environment for our younger generations.

Marcus Mizelle (26:12)
Yeah, nice.

Nice.

Audun (26:14)
This is actually where I think European and American movies differ a little bit. mean,

Marcus Mizelle (26:21)
I

Audun (26:21)
quite lucky having good governmental funding. So my films are funded by the Norwegian Film Institute Cultural Department and some foundations and combined with TV sales and all that.

Marcus Mizelle (26:26)
Mm-hmm.

Audun (26:35)
But the thing is we are given quite a lot of liberty, creative liberty, because we have this governmental funding. So we don't have to get all busy with the investors and tied up in private money. So in Norway, a documentary can be up to 90 % financed by public.

Marcus Mizelle (26:48)
private money.

Yeah, so true.

Audun (26:59)
money and not private money. And

Marcus Mizelle (27:01)
It's wonderful.

Audun (27:03)
so that's what I started with Newtopia. I started marketing my own film simultaneously while doing TV sales and festivals. And it turned out pretty well because that's the scary thing that

Marcus Mizelle (27:14)
Nice.

Audun (27:16)
We know so much about people through these algorithms and you can install codes on your own websites

were people like buying my film for $200. I didn't know who they were and they just gave me the money and they got the film automatically because I made a film for this. And that's just running like this.

When the algorithm gets hotter and hotter, finds your audience. And when you are doing this type of self marketing, yeah, this system can be beneficial for people like us. And we can use it for something good. Although it's questionable, I think, how these algorithms work and they should change,

Marcus Mizelle (27:47)
Wow, you took it and made it work for you.

These funnels though, can you explain briefly, basically, how that works? Yeah.

Audun (28:01)
I mean, it's basically just a website that is

designed in a way that it triggers all our emotional buttons so that it makes us want to feel like, I just have to have this. If I don't get it, then I'm going to miss out and I'm going to lose the whole game of life because I don't know this information and everyone's going to know it and I'm going to left behind. Yeah. So you make people believe that sort of stuff and

Marcus Mizelle (28:10)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

I'm gonna be left behind.

Audun (28:30)
You know, it's like, is it worth doing that kind of marketing for them to see your film? Because when they see your film, then they're going to know the actual film and that's okay. That's a really good, good film. And people are messaging me, you know, very often like, ⁓ thank you so much for making this film and so on. And that's, that's really amazing and nice to get those messages. So.

But then you have to adapt to algorithm and do this a little bit sleazy marketing in order to sell it. But once they see it, it's like the mean justifies the, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so.

Marcus Mizelle (29:02)
Right, right.

The end is just supposed to mean. Is that how it goes? Well, I mean, yeah,

yeah, yeah. Marketing is a huge part. It's not just about what you have, right? how do you sell it, how do you get it in front of the right people? Even when it comes to like film festivals, know, and we can circle back to, you know, your situa, your cycle that you're in right now. You know, like, what, do you just blindly submit or do you also try to get it in front of certain programmers or what is it? Yeah.

Audun (29:28)
Yeah, all of it, I guess.

on this film, I have a collaboration with the Norwegian Film Institute. So they have a specific position for reaching out to festivals with the films that's been made and supported by the Norwegian Film Institute, which is really, really nice.

Marcus Mizelle (29:35)
Okay.

Very nice. Really cool.

Audun (29:48)
But with Newtopia, I had ⁓ an agency.

that's submitted my films. So yeah, it depends on the project. And eventually, you know, I want to keep my VOD rights so I can continue selling this film with the film funnel and getting it out there to, you know, people that want to do online entrepreneurship or whatever. People are interested in that sort of things.

Marcus Mizelle (29:59)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So

what are the details of that funnel as far as you have your website, you have a click now, like click the link below button, right? And then, but it takes you to, them to VOD and then you capture the revenue, right? That's it. Simple as that.

Audun (30:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. That's

it. But then it's about creating like what they're telling you like an irresistible offer. I mean, it's I think it's easier to sell films in a package like you give something more other than the film as well. That makes people want to really want to buy that package.

Marcus Mizelle (30:39)
Mm-hmm.

What is an example that you've used as far as what was in your package?

Audun (30:52)
Well, in Utopia it was because I basically gave almost all that money that I earned on the film funnel back to the communities in the film. So people really love that. we made like, you know, Lucky Strike. It wasn't in the film, but Lucky Strike offered to renovate my friend's student cafe, but it had to look like a cigarette commercial.

Really crap. Actually, America bought, American company bought the whole cigarette industry in Indonesia. So they're basically controlling the whole thing. And they, yeah, they turned Indonesia into the most smoking country in the world. I mean, you see four year olds smoking cigarettes.

Marcus Mizelle (31:26)
Of course, of course. Blackrock probably owns that.

my God, yeah, because they,

and then America, the American tobacco industry turned into the American food industry. It's crazy.

Audun (31:40)
Yeah, so

they offered to do that and I said, oh, we're going to reject Lucky Strike and we made another project renovating this cafe and hundreds of students are coming there every day and the tribal people, they came in and did that work for a fair amount of money and that was film funnels money and also

A lot of these people living in a jungle, get stuck in the middle. they are, the government wants them out of the jungle, but they want to live in the jungle. A lot of them at least. And I, and they get poor on both sides because they get stuck in the middle. So I financed a traditional house for the main character in the film so that he can go back and

Marcus Mizelle (32:19)
Mm-hmm.

Audun (32:31)
to his pension there and live on his own terms. So yeah, that was cool and people liked that. So that was an incentive there with the funnel.

Marcus Mizelle (32:35)
Mm-hmm. It's amazing.

It's a beautiful thing, beautiful thing. People are good out there, right? People are good. They do value, yeah. Yeah.

Audun (32:46)
Yeah, with click below it's more difficult though because

it's all about money.

Marcus Mizelle (32:52)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Is it ever going to change? I know it's not like that in every part of the world, but man, it's not a great system. dock edge. You already had your world premiere, right? How did it go?

Audun (32:54)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it was amazing. mean, the film was shown at the Capitol. It's quite a small, very old cinema, like this really beautiful cinema. You know, when they have these old carpets and nice stairs leading up to the cinema. It's very beautiful.

Marcus Mizelle (33:14)
Ugh.

Yes, it's like a church.

Audun (33:25)
more old people there as well than I expected. And they really loved the story and appreciated how it was made.

Marcus Mizelle (33:29)
Okay.

I feel

like the old folks definitely show up. where are the young people? Do y'all care? Where are you at? Hello?

Audun (33:38)
Yeah.

Yeah, they should watch more quality documentaries.

Marcus Mizelle (33:46)
Yeah, I mean, do you think the Europeans and rest of the world kind of still keeps up there? Do think they show their kids more quality stuff? Do think there's like a culture being passed down? How do you feel?

Audun (33:56)
⁓

Well, the thing is, ⁓ in Norway, we have a system called the cultural backpack in the schools. so I'm part of the year, I'm traveling around different schools showing my films. And so they have to see these films. But when they see it, they are totally like, wow. And

Marcus Mizelle (34:14)
Very cool.

Very cool. That reminds

me... go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry.

Audun (34:21)
No, just makes them realize by force at first, but then after they've seen it, then they realize, fuck, documentaries can be really amazing. And they will watch more documentaries in their spare time and their own intentions. So,

Marcus Mizelle (34:37)
They see what's possible, I

Maybe some people want artsy stuff. Maybe some people want entertainment. Some people want informational stuff, but either way they want something quality.

I think the people in between are in the way. ⁓

Audun (34:48)
Yeah, maybe I think

also we're misled about what's quality like, quality is then it should be slick and planned out and look fantastic. Like sometimes, you know, raw and real is much better. And then the story focused and not focused around having this pristine 8K image stuff, you know, I mean,

Marcus Mizelle (35:03)
Mm-hmm.

Totally.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Audun (35:15)
Real and raw stories. I think in a way maybe it's changing. I'm hopeful, know, I think we're in terms of economy and way of thinking. I think we're constantly in this evolution. I think capitalism is just an evolutionary step in our economic evolution. And it's going to get better on an individual basis. Individual basis. We can talk and we are like, this is wrong and should be different.

Marcus Mizelle (35:15)
Totally.

Love that.

Mm-hmm.

Audun (35:41)
But

then when we are in the collective mass, it's like a monster that we can't control. And we're all talking about it on an individual level. And when we're getting more and more people talking about that as individuals, I mean, there's got to be a change somehow, someday. Yeah. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (35:45)
Right,

Sure, talking is good. You can't just talk, talk, talk, talk. But before I forget,

think aesthetics are always a second to the story, to the emotional engagement of the story. Aesthetics are always second, in my opinion. But if you can bring the aesthetics along for the ride, then cool, you know? But I feel you, yeah, it's all about the emotional engagement. And so many great movies are not, in my opinion, are not particularly the prettiest ones, you know?

Audun (36:06)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (36:24)
Especially documentaries, some of the best documentaries,

which are the most engaging type of film, to me, are not particularly shot in some cinematic way. I let me ask you this before I forget. Older films, past films, are some of your faves?

Audun (36:36)
I think there's so many good films out there.

I have to think about it. I should have this ready, know, like what is my favorite but but that's that's the thing I don't because

Marcus Mizelle (36:43)
No worries. Well, I need something. need one thing

to put. I don't know, is there a movie that you watched that cheers you up? Or is there any sort of like, or do you remember the first time you watched a movie in the theater? Like, I don't know what my first one was, but I think I know it. Actually, but, I think about it. What was my first movie? Jesus, I don't know how to know that.

Audun (37:03)
But you mentioned

Quentin Tarantini earlier and I do think that Pulp Fiction is this really cool movie that I watched when I was younger and I enjoyed it ever since. It's the kind of film that stands the test of time. ⁓ I really enjoy that.

Marcus Mizelle (37:10)
So good.

He's so good with that.

Once Upon a Time in Hollywood last night on film at his theater and the sound design was unlike what I'd ever heard it before. It was the best time, I I'd watched it when it first came out. It was great. Then I watched it a few times since and I'm like, it's good. Then I rewatched it last night and I'm like, God, this movie's great, actually. This is holding up.

Audun (37:25)
Yeah,

Yeah, I watched a,

I remember watching a documentary from Mexico a long time ago, even before I started doing documentaries myself, it's called In the Pit. It's about road work in Mexico and how these people who are actually making these roads like highways and they are working their whole life doing these, you know,

Marcus Mizelle (37:48)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Hmm?

Audun (38:02)
crazy

highways in the city and sweating and people dying. And that documentary made a huge impression on me. You saw the characters. I really like character-driven stories.

Marcus Mizelle (38:13)
That's what I needed.

In the Pit, focusing on the plight of the invisible worker, this documentary shows the stark realities and human struggles of hundreds of Mexican construction laborers as they toil to build Mexico City's Periférico Freeway. These courageous and tireless men share stories about their families, their individual goals, and personal insights into the perilous nature of their chosen profession. 2007 by Juan Carlos Rulfo. Nice. Cool.

Audun (38:27)
you

Yeah.

Yeah,

I really like that. At the time, it made a real impression. I've only seen it once.

Marcus Mizelle (38:47)
so many

films kind of come and go too. It's nice to like learn about these films, know, bring them back to life in a way, or at least discover them for me for the first time.

Audun (38:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think these days is one of the problems we're facing because people are through YouTube and all the social media. We're so used to consuming content that is polarized, you know, like, and we need to adapt to that in order to market our stuff. And then

Somehow I see that people who are making documentary films as well are making their documentaries polarizing. And so it's like either or situation. And we do that or they do that probably because they know that people are going to respond better to that. It's going to be an easier sell. And then I think that is sad because documentaries I think should have

Marcus Mizelle (39:22)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's.

Audun (39:37)
give more perspective and make people more aware. But somehow a lot of documentaries made these days are also making people more narrow minded and making them more into that filter bubble.

Marcus Mizelle (39:46)
It's that line.

It goes back to that line between show and business, know, between what is your goal here, capitalism or something else? like, it's okay to make money, but when that's your only, when that's your priority, it's just, I don't understand that way of thinking, because it's not gonna, what are you gonna do, end up just with a whole bunch of money, you know, by yourself? Like, what's the point of that? We already know that's not the way to go. But anyways, sorry, scoot.

Audun (39:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I enter

a very interesting person as well when it comes to what leads to happiness. Robert Waldinger, he's in my film as well. is now conducting the longest studies about happiness in the world that they're doing in Harvard. And they have been studying ⁓ different generations.

for 86 years about what makes them tick, makes them happy and so on. yeah, so it's definitely not money that makes us happy to a certain level because you know, if you're, if you're a, what to say, if you're, you're, if you're an asshole and you get rich, you probably get to be an amplified asshole.

Marcus Mizelle (40:38)
What is this conclusion?

Right, right, right.

Audun (40:53)
But if you're a happy person, then

you are getting a little bit happier to a certain extent and then it flats out. ⁓ But connection is the real thing. Warm connections with other people.

Marcus Mizelle (40:58)
Sure, sure.

Look, Malcolm Gladwell did that book called Outliers. You ever see that? Or you ever read that? That's a good book.

Audun (41:08)
No, I haven't read it, but it's on my list.

Marcus Mizelle (41:10)
The opening chapter is about

this, the prologue is about this town and they have the highest living lifespan in America, I think it is per capita and come to find out it's because they're all mostly Sicilian immigrants and they're just a massive community that do everything together. Like everybody's kids hang out with everybody else. And yeah, and it's just this connectivity for sure. And I think the converse of that is what? Loneliness?

Audun (41:28)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (41:35)
And a lot of times when you're being selfish, think selfishness leads to loneliness. Capitalism is ultimately selfish in my opinion. ⁓

Audun (41:39)
Yeah.

And the crazy thing that we left

connectivity up to social media outlets to a large extent now. And the algorithm is controlling that, you know, so, so that's a huge problem. It's going to be a huge problem moving on.

Marcus Mizelle (41:50)
Mm.

And you made a film that's targeted just that idea, right? That's talking about that. It's super important What do you have next for this film? You have Doc Edge, you're already done with that. So where are you going now?

Audun (42:09)
the European and the North American premiere coming up. There's a substantial festival in Europe. I'm not allowed to disclose it yet, unfortunately.

Marcus Mizelle (42:22)
Can I guess? I'm just kidding.

Audun (42:23)
So, but yeah, it's festivals coming up and then, you know, we have sideways films working on TV sales. So there's actually a shorter version of the film as well. That will be a TV version. It's 58 minutes. So it's more condensed. Yeah. So I guess it's just that.

Marcus Mizelle (42:32)
How nice.

Nice.

Audun (42:42)
process and then in the final stages I want to do the ⁓ film funnel thing and just market my own film and you know when it comes to contracts you know it's like keeping the VOD rights I always try to do that so I can do marketing myself as well and then I give the rights for TV channels away

Marcus Mizelle (42:53)
Yeah.

What about airlines and all that? you keep you give them away as well

Audun (43:08)
Yeah, airlines,

yeah, I've done that. did that with the Help I Gone Viral. So that was shown in Canadian Airlines. yeah, I think that's great. I always look at documentaries on the airlines when I'm flying.

Marcus Mizelle (43:18)
Great, great,

Mm-hmm.

Audun (43:22)
I'm surprised that there should be much more documentaries on airlines.

Marcus Mizelle (43:25)
I agree.

Something about it makes complete sense. My last film got on five airlines, but it was like, whoa, these are 200 million people that wouldn't have possibly seen this movie. It's great. And they can't go anywhere. know, they have to watch something.

Audun (43:33)
Yeah, and it's... Yeah.

But the crappy thing is that documentaries, you really have to go into the menu in order to find documentaries on the airline. You know, they should make it more visible that documentaries is a part of their films.

Marcus Mizelle (43:43)
Sure, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's such a healthy little kind of old fashioned throwback space, you know, because there are no algorithms, there are no, there's no Wi-Fi, I mean there is if you wanna pay extra, but most people aren't on their phones, right? So anyways, last question. filmmaking advice for your earlier filmmaking self that you would, if you could go back in time and tell your earlier filmmaking self.

Audun (44:03)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mmm.

When I was starting out, was like, okay, I have to just get this money and finance my own film. then I realized I should just make a bunch of applications and try to get people to fund me. And doing that in a smart way. Because I think...

Marcus Mizelle (44:27)
guys.

Audun (44:33)
Writing all these applications can be done in several ways and there are certain ways that are more convincing. mean, most people think about, what can I get? know, what can I get? But what can you give out of value to the people actually investing in your film and why should they invest? thinking more in terms of that perspective because of your thinking all the time. ⁓ I want...

Marcus Mizelle (44:48)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mmm.

Audun (44:58)
$200,000. like, why should that person give you that money? I mean, there must be research. If you're looking for private investors and researching, what are they up to? What do they want? What are they taking on?

Marcus Mizelle (45:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

It's yeah, it's that

me me me versus what how can I actually help you which will then also give you a better selling point right better better pitch because you're providing more value. No, that's good advice.

Audun (45:18)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.