E64 • Make The Struggle Worth It • PARSIFAL REPARATO, dir. of 'She' - Best Doc, Adelaide Film Festival following Locarno

Italian documentarian Parsifal Reparato discusses She, his five-year journey inside Vietnam’s electronics manufacturing world, where young migrant women work 12-hour shifts producing devices for the global market. What began as labor-rights research grew into a portrait of fear, capitalism, and survival, earned through slow trust-building with workers afraid to speak openly.

We unpack creative influences like Lars Von Trier’s Dogville, Joshua Oppenheimer’s The Act of Killing, and the observational approach he absorbed from working with Roberto Minervini. Parsifal explains how the film’s black-box reenactment set became a space where workers could rebel, speak freely, or even destroy it. Instead, they rest together, revealing exhaustion itself as resistance.

We talk filmmaking as labor, the emotional toll of activist storytelling, parting with his first editor and later rebuilding the film with Alice Roffinengo, whose perspective shaped its final form. Parsifal reflects on his Locarno premiere, the weight of representing real people on screen, and the responsibility of carrying stories born from hardship.

Advice to filmmakers: trust your voice early, accept risk, and if you’re going to struggle, struggle for something that matters.

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Chapters

• 0:33 Past Present Feature, Hosted by Marcus Mizelle
• 0:53 PARSIFAL REPARATO, dir. of “She” – Best Doc, Adelaide Film Festival following Locarno

Transcript

Marcus Mizelle (00:21)
Italian documentarian, Parsifal Rapparotta, discusses she, his five-year journey inside Vietnam's electronic manufacturing world.

earned through slow trust building with workers afraid to speak openly.

We unpack creative influences like Lars Von Trier's Dogville, Joshua Oppenheimer's The Act of Killing, and the observational approach he absorbed from working with Roberto Miniverny.

Parsifal explains how the film's black box reenactment set became a space where workers could rebel, speak freely, or even destroy it. Instead, they rest together, revealing exhaustion itself as resistance. We talk filmmaking as labor, the emotional toll of activist storytelling, partying with his first editor and later rebuilding the film with Alicia Cam, whose perspective shaped its final Parsifal reflects on his Locarno premiere, the weight of representing real people on screen,

and the responsibility of carrying stories born from hardship. Advice to filmmakers? Trust your voice early. Accept risk.

And if you're going to struggle anyway, struggle for something that matters.

Marcus Mizelle (01:20)
I'm just gonna read your synopsis really quickly. She is a coral narrative about some of the 80,000 workers in one of the largest electronic industry plants based in Vietnam. 80 % of the basic workforce are women who have agreed to work 12 hour shifts day and night. The bodies of the workers are revealed bit by bit, maintaining the necessary anonymity that guarantees the freedom to denounce the harshness of the imposed working conditions. She is a mother, daughter,

wife, single person, migrant, and settler at the same time. Each protagonist is different. However, they are all connected in the exploitation they are subjected to every day, unable to realize their dreams due to relentless exploitation." So that word exploitation reminds me of oppression, little person, little man or woman versus the man, right? I mean...

I feel like we can relate here because some of my past projects, many of my past projects are similar as far as, you know, this David versus Goliath. Would you say that's a big part of, a big theme in your film here? Just highlighting the oppression and the exploitation of these people. Can you talk about that?

Parsifal (02:27)
Yes, she is part, is born, was born from the, an important research in collaboration with the University of Lorientalia of Naples and the Vietnamese Academy of Social Science. And we were focused the research about strengthening workers' rights and representation. So we work at the...

to empower civil society organization and the trade unions. So all the research during several years, I work in Vietnam from over 10 years, around 15 years about workers rights. So this research started, this specific research started in 2020 during the pandemic situation. And we get in the...

Just the researchers from Vietnam, the Institute of Research from Vietnam, Vietnamese Academy of Social Science, just bring me in several industrial suburbs and they say, where do you want to work? Where do you want to make your investigation with us? Because we are interested to work in electronics factory and we are making investigation about this. And we need an advocacy video for trade union to make training.

Marcus Mizelle (03:26)
Okay.

So interesting.

Parsifal (03:39)
for trade unionist, for unionist. And then we go around to looking for ⁓ many, many, many factories, the main corporate factory around Vietnam. mean, LG, Apple, Samsung, all the electronics that are investing in Vietnam in this

So we go around to investigate many, many, many electronic factories managed by big corporations and the foreigner investors. And I choose one of the most important industrial suburbs where one of the biggest factories is based.

And what from the beginning, what I found, I tried to invest, I've tried to interview hundreds of workers, like my colleagues from Vietnam try to do that. And we found several scared workers that they didn't want to talk with us. They were scared. They're afraid to talk about their work, what's happening inside the factory.

Marcus Mizelle (04:37)
Sure.

Mm-hmm.

Parsifal (04:42)
So

at the beginning, my engagement was ⁓ for just two months. Then because the issues with the pandemic situation, so the bureaucracy and all these things, all this stuff, I stayed in Vietnam for six months continuously to making this research. And we pushed to try to talk with someone. At the end of the six months, I achieved to talk, to make interview.

to around almost 100 workers quantitative interview and qualitative interview between these 80-100 workers I started to build a relationship with the workers that were less scared maybe not less scared that they really want to communicate something outside they need for several reasons

Marcus Mizelle (05:18)
Wow.

Parsifal (05:36)
someone who really trusted in our research, someone who looking for revenge against the line producer, line manager or something like that. So everyone with several reasons, but we starting, I started to build the important relationship. This relationship at the beginning was based on the try to make a game to defeat the fear.

Marcus Mizelle (05:45)
Mm-hmm.

Parsifal (06:04)
The fear to talk about the oppression in the factory, to talk about the bullying in the factory and all, every day at the beginning, and the beginning for the first, for all the time, the oppression from the factory, from the corporate was strong. They were afraid to be discovered from the factory that they talk about.

Marcus Mizelle (06:04)
you

Parsifal (06:26)
what's happening inside the factory with the foreigner people and with the people that don't work in the factory and they are afraid to reveal a secret from the factory. All this was the first evidence of oppression because it was the oppression that imposed them to avoid to talk about what's happening inside the factory.

the oppression about to talk that someone died near the factory, someone sick inside the factory, someone faint inside the factory and the daily bullying that they have. So from that side, it's been really... the oppression was so evident and we make the investigation in one of the best factories in Vietnam. This is the most important thing.

Marcus Mizelle (07:12)
Wow.

Parsifal (07:13)
Yes, because we invest.

Marcus Mizelle (07:13)
So there's worse. Every other factory in Vietnam is probably worse than this.

Parsifal (07:18)
Yes, not only in Vietnam. The point is that all over the world, also in Italy, the situation and talking about workers' rights is always difficult, dangerous, scary. And we choose, I choose to talk about, to make an investigation in one of the best industrial parks where the people, really, the workers really want to work there because the salary, the wage is ⁓ higher than the others.

Marcus Mizelle (07:21)
All over the world. ⁓

Parsifal (07:42)
because the rights are better than the others and so I want to investigate the system because we list in another factory not in these suburbs that we're in back in but in other suburbs we list in so unbelievable story like ⁓ workers beaten from line manager something like that so crazy so I say no it's so evident that is I didn't want to do something so money-based I don't know if that is the right word

Marcus Mizelle (07:45)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

to what do you

Parsifal (08:12)
In many cases,

it means something totally bad or totally bad. I really want to investigate with this movie. Not so objective. I don't pretend to be objective.

Marcus Mizelle (08:19)
Okay, Objective kind of, you want it more observational in a way? Okay. Sure,

sure, sure, sure. So maybe observational would be a fair word more so, and to see where it goes.

Parsifal (08:31)
but not to

stimulate the thinking, the thoughtful of the workers and to have the possibility to open my view to different...

Marcus Mizelle (08:40)
Okay, okay. Well, have, yeah,

I'm sorry to cut you off. I have a filmmaking question that pops in my head then. As far as that approach, know, trying to approach something, a topic or a subject or as a documentarian, but try to maintain, what'd you say, more of an observational approach just to see what comes about before you nudge? Is that kind of like what you were thinking? Like just to kind of try not to lean left?

Parsifal (08:47)
Yeah, yeah,

Marcus Mizelle (09:07)
lean too far left or right but to try to see what gives what comes to you? Is that the idea at first? Okay.

Parsifal (09:12)
Yes, idea was,

yes, to... The most important, maybe the most important interview, the most important relationship that I build, and also the main protagonist of the movie, she was one of the most supportive of the factory. At the beginning, yes, she was not the most angry with the factory. She defended the factory, she won't explain me...

Marcus Mizelle (09:32)
⁓ interesting.

Parsifal (09:39)
what's happening inside the factory, why the factory have to push to produce more. ⁓

Marcus Mizelle (09:46)
It's like Stockholm syndrome, kind of. Would you

say? Is it kind of like Stockholm syndrome a little bit, you know, where like somebody has empathy for their kidnappers in a way? In a way? Correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm just trying to, you know, stir the pot a little bit. Okay, no problem, no problem.

Parsifal (09:53)
Yeah, no, I don't want to say that. say no.

I think no, she at the beginning too, the main the main the protagonist of the movie, she really believed in the necessity, necessity, in the needs of the factory of the corporate.

Marcus Mizelle (10:15)
Yeah, necessity.

Parsifal (10:19)
to push the worker to work more, to work more and extract profits from the workers because without profit she has a real capitalist mind. And it was surprising for me because it was for me not the first time, but for me these kind of people are more interesting because of course unionist people angry with the boss, it's easy to find it and...

Marcus Mizelle (10:25)
Mm. Mm.

Mm-hmm.

That's the obvious approach, isn't

it? Yeah, there's millions of those. Not millions, but yeah, yeah, yeah. This is more of a unique protagonist. And her arc can be so wonderful, right, if it flips around, right? It gives you more of an engaging, meaty arc, character arc.

Parsifal (10:46)
It's obvious, exactly. It's too obvious. And it's my approach. It's totally my vision.

Yeah,

Exactly. And so, Tu was just one of the workers that I interviewed at the beginning and I thought, okay, she's the... Defend the factory. She really has a corporate vision inside of her. But we keep the interview. It's interesting. They give us a lot of data, a lot of information, the point of view of normal workers who love...

to work in the factory, really. And what happened? That she gave us a lot of information, either point of view, but to make this movie, we waiting because after the 2020, when I worked there for six months, I built a relationship, I say, okay, with all the material that we have, we can do the advocacy video that our project needs. But now we have some...

a lot of materials to do a great movie because we have really a lot of information, we build a really strong relationship that was the best. But we cannot show the faces of the workers. So I thought if we want to do a real movie, a good movie, we should wait that someone will be fired. And between the workers that we interview, the first who have been fired has been two.

Marcus Mizelle (12:00)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Parsifal (12:18)
the most the most aligned with the corporate with the factory but because she was older she was 38 years old in the factory you become very very older when you over 30 and 38 you are like like really older really old

Marcus Mizelle (12:34)
Wow.

So they want to get you when you're and full of energy. They're just trying to squeeze just every drop out, I guess.

Parsifal (12:37)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. They say, also in the movie, young workers are obedient and ⁓ easy to manage. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (12:48)
Yeah, follow in line.

They don't question what they don't know anything different of,

Parsifal (12:53)
Exactly, yeah, they are more manageable.

Marcus Mizelle (12:55)
Plato's

cave, I love to come back to this thing. Isn't it kind of where it's like the reality is what they think, what they've been given, what they think their reality is, what they've been given, right? But they don't know any different. When you don't know any different, how do you know to challenge?

Parsifal (13:09)
Yeah.

Yeah. As I said, also they, are, it's a, I'll say it's scientific. The way that they hire people are really scientific because they hire young people. The average age is between 18 and 25. Mostly. But they hire people far from the factory. So they, they want migrants.

Marcus Mizelle (13:27)
and

Okay, but country people, country people from the kind of rural

parts? Okay, okay. More desperate, I guess.

Parsifal (13:36)
They want to migrate from the countryside because they

can be more isolated. They cannot build a network. So they have a really short time to build, not to build nothing, to understand what they are. Because in so short time, the average to work is around five years, the most 10 years, but medium they work around five years.

Marcus Mizelle (13:44)
So gross.

Parsifal (14:04)
In those five years they don't have the time to understand that they are really workers. Sometimes they feel like students that save some money to go to the university. They feel like ⁓ peasants who help the family to grow the economy. So it's just a short period of life to stay in the factory. So they don't have the time to understand that they are working class.

And that's the secret to the trade. Now, the capitalist is really, really, really developed the system. And the working class is really behind, really far from the stage of development of the capitalism.

Marcus Mizelle (14:38)
Mmm.

It's like this, yeah, my brain goes to this Henry Ford place, right? The nine to five kind of, even this is probably not a great example, but I just, terms of being an American and like how I've had to kind of grow up and understand that clocking in time does not, you how much time you put in does not equal how much effort does not equal more money. I feel like, you know, exploitation is the way that a lot of people seem to make more money.

But the whole kind of Henry Ford, nine to five, clocking in mentality, you know, growing up, people think, the more you work, give me that overtime, please. ⁓ I wanna work more so I can make more. That whole bullshit thing. And it is that kind of, it's that worker bee employee working class space, right? That's a real thing. And so this is a much more extreme version of that, but.

Parsifal (15:18)
Yep.

And in

this case they work 12 hours per day so it means that the overtime is systematically. In the contract, the contract of these workers explain that they work for 4 days for a week and then 2 days break. And in these 4 days they work 12 hours per day for contract and 8 hours of work and 4 hours of overtime.

But it's systematic, they cannot refuse, they should accept to work.

Marcus Mizelle (16:01)
You know, it's,

can't help but to say this. have to say it. You know what it reminds me of? You know, it reminds me of the film industry. Not the same kind of work, but the same kind of hours, truly. And like, I mean, I used to be a grip for seven years and I'm not trying to compare, you know, to that. But as far as the hours are concerned, my very first day on any film set was 18 hours long. And it was like normal, apparently, you know? And I'm like, what?

So anyways, just a shout out to how kind of that's like, there's nothing more kind of, what do you call it? It's almost like, it's an awkward example to make, where it's like, people are bringing these crew members dry

17, 18 hours a day? Like, how do you feel about that? Do you think that's

Parsifal (16:41)
it was a topic also when we talk with them. Yeah, we talk about also about self-exploitation because it's the mentality. I think to talk about factory. Well, I have a Marxist point of view. My point of view is really Marxist. I grow with the Marxist class, I say.

Marcus Mizelle (16:45)
you do. really?

Okay,

Parsifal (17:04)
So I think that in the factory you can see what really happened to extract profit, to get profit. It's very clear what happened. But as so from the workers in the factory, you really can touch the real bones and I don't know how say the body of the people who feel the oppression.

about the workers, about the work exploitation. But if you talk with these people, they always arrive to make the same question to you. And they always ask, OK, I'm exploited. But you, are here every day. You work in 15 hours and you want to exploit us to work with you for 15 hours or more. Yeah, it's become become very interesting situation because also have you seen the movie, right or not?

Marcus Mizelle (17:40)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's very interesting too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

I did watch it, but I had to watch it in pieces because it's been a crazy week. But no, know the aesthetic and I know the overall, and by the way, I certainly, certainly love, I love, love, love the way you shot that, you kept coming back to it, that kind of, what do call it? Kind of like an overhead shot, but you had kind of like two or three, you had the table, but you also had the shot, the kind of really,

Parsifal (18:15)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I want to talk about that, yeah, exactly.

Marcus Mizelle (18:19)
I've never seen, I've actually never seen that kind of thing displayed in a film before. The way you set that up aesthetically. Would love to talk about that when you're writing. We can keep talking about the themes in the bigger picture if you would like, or we can move into that. But I think that was really cool. That grabbed me, you know, because you see, I see so many movies now, thankfully, blessed and blessed, but that took me, that took my, that grabbed me, that grabbed me. But I will say this. ⁓

Parsifal (18:23)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (18:45)
I have a question as far as how much time did you spend on actually, you're following the workers, you're following almost, I would say, I don't know if you want to use the word victims, but the people that are being perpetrated or being exploited, how much time do you also spend on maybe the systems or the people that are put in place by the systems to exploit

Parsifal (19:03)
what? To follow them?

Marcus Mizelle (19:05)
The oppressors,

you spend, how much time did you spend on just the oppressors? Did you have any oppressor characters? Yeah, the manager, yeah. And then also maybe even like somebody above him, because of course he's probably getting oppressed too, right? It's a chain of command.

Parsifal (19:12)
Yeah, with manager, you mean.

Exactly, Yeah,

yeah, exactly. One in one of the, one of the scene, we, we put, we bring all the workers, many workers in some secret place is the black place where you have seen that you have seen. And that place is, we stay with them for 12 hours, like in the factory, standing up with them. say, we want to feel your tiredness. We want to see what's happened. We are, they don't know each other.

and we bring workers and one line manager and the one line manager they don't know each other they were covered by the uniform and the line manager accepted to work with us because and she was really

She identifies herself with the factory. But we have a deep conversation with her. And she really understands our reason, our motivation to go in deep, to investigate what is right, what is wrong in the factory. I asked her and I protect her. I protect every worker there. They don't know each other. They were protected by privacy.

We spent a lot of money, a lot of organization to bring each other in the same place, but with covered face. It was a really crazy situation. And the oppressor, as you see, the line manager.

she's she defend her position that she was the how say the the guard dog of the factory of the corporate and she said this is my job i'm the first exploited i'm i've been exploited more than the workers because i have to ensure the the factory to make to achieve the goal every day and to push the workers i'm in the middle so when the workers are really angry with the with the factory she they

Marcus Mizelle (20:49)
Mmm.

Parsifal (21:09)
see the factory in me in my body

Marcus Mizelle (21:13)
just Darth

Vader, man. I got an answer to the Emperor, you know, kind of thing. It's like, okay, right? There's always that, yeah. The justifica- everybody can justify anything, can't they? I'm not the bad guy. I'm not-

Parsifal (21:16)
Yeah, I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but the

interesting thing was that she accepted to share her position, to accept to participate in this project and to show her work because she said, for me, it's nothing wrong. This is the system. It works. So if we don't work in this way, economy collapse. You will not have your fucking iPhone. You will not have your fucking screen.

Marcus Mizelle (21:49)
Mm-hmm.

Parsifal (21:50)
You will not have your electronics and your first world economy.

Marcus Mizelle (21:54)
Yeah,

comfort abilities, comforts. I mean, and you know what? That makes an interesting character, doesn't it? It's almost like, again, I'm just gonna go with it. It's like the Joker in The Dark Knight, right? What a great character because it's like, of course he's the bad guy, but also his philosophies make sense if you sit and think to a degree, right? It's like where it's like, I understand where you're coming from. I think maybe you could refine, know, what it is you're doing. But these people, mean...

People got to make a living and a lot of times we're just perpetuating a system right to get to get what we need for our families and for ourselves and You can't you can understand that right? mean how do This this line manager. I mean, it's really cool that you got her to To to come on and I guess you know as far as access is concerned You know being making a documentary you're only as good as your access sometimes right like you can't film what you don't what door you can't get into

So like how cool was it for her to come on and say, yes, I want to be a part of this. Was that exciting to you? were you like, I feel like that might've been a big break. Or was she kind of available when you came on already? And just talk about the access, being able to get somebody to come on board and say, yes, I will let you film me, which always blows my mind, how open some people can be a lot of times.

Parsifal (23:07)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's everything about relationship. It was about also to put myself, ourself in the game, into the game. And for example, in the movie there is one character also, not only the line manager, but there is a really bad guy. He's the landlord. He's ⁓ a drunk man, always drunk all the time.

Marcus Mizelle (23:19)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Parsifal (23:33)
It was a bet. The big bet of this movie was this man. And it was really unpredictable. We didn't know and I really didn't know what he wanted to do. But he was the man who really represented all the system, the whole system. He exploits the workers through, yeah, the bad guy, the bad guy. But we...

Marcus Mizelle (23:52)
Hmm. You're bad guy.

Parsifal (24:00)
really build a relationship with him. We become maybe the best friend that I have during this movie is the bad guy and all the crew, all the crew, all the members of the crew, we fall in love with him because the worker, the worker, they were stuck in their position. They, they can also give us a very few time because they don't have time. the things that we do with workers

Marcus Mizelle (24:14)
Wow, yeah, that's it.

Parsifal (24:27)
was very clear, they have really clear what they want to say, what they want to do, what they want to show. But the really bad, the really strong relationship that we have to build was with this guy.

Marcus Mizelle (24:32)
Mm-hmm.

The anti-hero, not even an anti-hero, a criminal is a hero almost, whatever you wanna say. That's where my brain goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like Breaking Bad, for example, comes to my mind, where it's like, we don't wanna see the victims, or we wanna see the bad guy. That's what made it so appealing, I feel like. But also, did you feel like this bad guy, quote unquote, the landlord, did he have any redeeming qualities? Did he have any human? Of course he probably did, all right? He had some human.

Parsifal (24:43)
Yeah, it's a- yeah.

is so

Yeah, exactly.

Marcus Mizelle (25:05)
The human side that you felt, were you trying to have the audience feel for him? Were there things to grab onto in terms of that?

Parsifal (25:11)
Exactly, that is the point of older, the war research. We don't want to judge, we want to see the system, how does it work, how the system change the people, how the system have an impact of the people. So, and if you make this with love, you can see also that this bad guy have a reason because he act in that way.

and you discover that he's also a victim of the system. It's a system where you maybe you cannot escape alone. You cannot destroy the system alone. So you are part of the system. You are part of the game and you have to find your way to survive. And the way to survive of this guy was to exploit the workers and the women. And that was so crazy because at the beginning we really want to exploit him in the sense that we want to show how bad is this guy.

But at beginning, at the end of the movie, at the end of the whole production, we empathize with him. We empathize with his sufferance. He was a guy. In the movie, maybe it's difficult to really understand the story of this man, but behind this man, there is a big story that you know, you have to cut the story of your character. But the story of this man...

Marcus Mizelle (26:30)
You

gotta add it in shape, right? Is that what you mean? Yeah.

Parsifal (26:33)
Yeah, yeah,

and this guy was a son of peasant and the peasant when the factory arrived grabbed the lands of the peasant and said, okay, take this money. We take your land and you make what you want with your with this money. And they were peasant. So the only things that they can do is just to build a big house, a big dormitory near the factory is the most easy thing to do. And ⁓

Marcus Mizelle (26:50)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Parsifal (27:02)
He lost his identity. He became a drunk man because he didn't know anymore who he is. He is not an epicent anymore. The village is not the same village as before. It's an industrialized smart city. So he lost his identity. And the one way to survive is to exploit workers and to be drunk every day. So we love it. We love him because we really feel...

Marcus Mizelle (27:05)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Wow.

Parsifal (27:30)
the sufferance of this guy and the... is the sufferance of everyone in that crazy system.

Marcus Mizelle (27:36)
And you couldn't write something better. I try not to talk about the same stuff over and over again on this part, but like I love documentaries so much because real life is so packed with all the things we care about, right? As far as storytellers and people that gravitate towards the human condition. It's just like so beautiful, so beautiful. And I guess it's all about our job as documentary filmmakers is to recognize when these elements are there, right? Just to kind of see the beauty in.

his suffering and you know he's not just some guy that's really like what's before what he's how he's acting right now like what came before that why why why it sounds like he just lost a piece of his soul or lost lost his way for sure you got to give up something to get something like that i think right like i mean maybe he was i don't know like what's the most redeemable moment in this movie for when it comes to him would you say is there like a moment or a scene or uh or even something that didn't make the cut where you're like what like redeemable like uh

Parsifal (28:30)
What's the most...

Marcus Mizelle (28:34)
Like something where you feel for him the most, where you're like, ⁓ man, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Parsifal (28:37)
ah redeemable, redeemable yeah

redeemable the most redeemable moment was for the workers when we we build all that scene in the factory and it was I always feel really emotion when I think what's happening inside the factory really it's moved me because we worked a lot

Marcus Mizelle (29:00)
Goosebumps.

Parsifal (29:06)
I worked from my point of view, like Marxist, try to organize all that scene with the workers and I say them, you will do what you do every day in the factory. We don't want to write anything, we don't want to suggest you anything, just remind what you say, during the interview. Everyone knows what she lived every day, but no one...

know each other, no one will know what will happen in the scene and but during that scene I say in some moment we will stop the scene and you can do what you want you can comment you will be not anymore in the factory you will be with us in the reality and you can comment what you feel you can destroy the factory you can destroy everything you can also beat

the line manager if you want. And I really push, I dream to see this. I dream that they beat the line manager. This was my dream and they destroyed the, how say, the supplies that we provide to them. And that was the, yes, the redeemable moment as you see. Because when they choose to do what they want,

Marcus Mizelle (30:01)
Mm-hmm.

Parsifal (30:22)
It was completely different from what was in my imagination. They don't want to destroy anything. They don't want to fight. That was so hard for me to accept because I tried to push for several scenes. If you want to destroy this, destroy the chair, destroy the table. If you want to destroy the phone, destroy the phone. Make what you want. Let us feel you're angry. But at the end, that was the most important things that I teach because that was the overview of this historical moment.

They were tired. They were tired. They want to sit down, to massage, massage each other and they feel, they try to make, befriend, become friends with the line manager. They put in circle and they start to talk, to rest. And for me was hard to accept because

Marcus Mizelle (30:52)
Hmm.

Peace, they want peace.

Wow.

Yeah.

Parsifal (31:13)
It's a mean for me, the meaning, everyone can take his meaning from this, from the scene. For me, it was too strong. I cried during that scene because I didn't expect this and I shake. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (31:15)
Sure, sure,

Yeah, yeah.

I love that. Yeah, you

went through a metamorphosis. You went through a character arc, huh?

Parsifal (31:30)
Yeah, it was

crazy these things and but the vision that I get that I learned from these things was that the working class in this moment is totally destroyed. They are tired and the most things, the most rebel things that they can do in this moment is not work, is to stand and in that way that is a form of rebellion, a form of protest. We don't want to work, we want to sit, stand down, stand down.

Marcus Mizelle (31:55)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Because I guess they've been fighting, right? As far as in the form of work, they've just been going as hard as possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just want peace. Makes sense.

Parsifal (31:59)
And

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, that's what's strong. That's what's strong. ⁓ Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (32:09)
Wow.

It's a beautiful just notion of a film. Okay, you have some films that are great, know, they're entertaining or whatever and they touch on maybe cultural relevance, but stuff like this is beyond important, you know, as far as just the activism of it all, I think, you know, I think that's a word I can use here where it's like literally you're pushing, you're trying to push against oppression. You're trying to at least call it out. mean, in documentary, filmmakers do have more power than most people I feel like when it comes to these things. We have real legitimate power.

because we get to people through emotions, right? And through story versus information and maybe, you know, something that's more, that's less engaging. And I think the powers that be are terrified of us in certain ways. It's pretty fucking bad ass, you know? And it's so cool when someone like yourself, first of all, cares about these topics so much, these themes, enough to feel you have to go do it, right? I mean, because documentaries, this is hard work. How many years have you spent on this? Five years you started during COVID, said?

Parsifal (33:08)
Yes, five years only for this.

Marcus Mizelle (33:08)
I think about five years. Yeah. So that's half a damn decade.

actually, you know what, let's go into post-production really quick as far as editing. Were you filming and editing at the same time? And then also, how did you know when you were done filming and how did kind of post and getting the film to the final version, how did all that look to kind of just get this shaped up into the film it became?

Parsifal (33:28)
Hey, it was really how we get down to the hell. Yes. No, everything was very, very, very difficult and exhausting really. And my favorite moment of course is to stay on the field work, to meeting people, to build relationship. That was the best. It was really tiring. We get sick, everything, but I really loved that moment. So.

Marcus Mizelle (33:34)
Mmm, always it seems.

Parsifal (33:53)
This is my reason to live, to suffer for the field work, for filming and to build the relationship.

Marcus Mizelle (33:59)
Same. Everything's

hard if you really want to be good at it, right? So at least we get to make movies. I had a moment when I was like 20, I think it was, where I'm like, had like already like 15 different jobs. I had cropped tobacco and worked in a grill, all these things. And I'm like, there's, seems like no matter what I do, it's going to be difficult and I'm not going to like it. And I'm not going to make money because I was from small town, no opportunities. And then so, but it was the best thing for me because I had this light bulb moment where I'm like, and I was already obsessed with making films and little home videos. I was like.

If it's gonna be hard and I'm already broke and I'm gonna be broke, I fucking might as well just do what I want to do then. I'm gonna make movies! Because I'm already fucking broke. I'm already miserable. At least I can be less miserable. Anyways, restless history. But that's how I think, you know, as far as I'm ready for the work and the... But you forget sometimes too, you know, there's this kind of misconception sometimes where it's like the more you do something the easier it'll get. And I don't think that's the case with film. I think you realize the harder it is each time you do it.

Parsifal (34:36)
Yes, I do.

Marcus Mizelle (34:56)
You're more clear on how hard it is. So it's almost harder in a way to continue making films go on to the next film because you know how much you put into the last one,

And but when you nail it, it doesn't matter how much hard work it is. It's like this addiction where I just want to do it all over again. You know, that's the crazy part. It's like a suicidal. lucky, right? We're lucky and we're able to we're able to even if it's five people or 500 people, we're able to like change somebody's mind about things or and or their mood. More importantly, in my opinion, sometimes, you know.

Parsifal (35:15)
Yes, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, we are like, we are privileged.

Marcus Mizelle (35:30)
Morale like we provide morale potentially and also information and knowledge, know if we can get to them, especially emotionally big deal. You know, it's a cool thing. I like to say and that's what the podcast is about We're celebrating the shit. I mean, it's like we have there's so much solo time. There's so much um Time spent in the trenches where we don't get to actually stop and talk about it Uh, we get one q a or a couple of q a's So anyways, I think it's important for us filmmakers to talk

which is why we're doing this. anyways, moving on, sorry. Post-production's a bitch. The editing was tough, you said?

Parsifal (36:00)
Yeah. ⁓

For me it's a nightmare, post-production is... I'm the kind of director that I don't like. I really do this job because I like to build relationships with people, finding a story, living the experience of this story. Then when I come back, I bring all the material, give this to the editor and say to him, please, check what I did. If you find the...

Marcus Mizelle (36:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Parsifal (36:31)
something interesting, let me know. If our vision match, it's okay. If our mission don't match, we starting to work. In this case with my important, the first editor was Armando D'Oruccio Ventriglia. We worked from the beginning from 2020 to 2024, but when all the shooting was ready, we didn't match anymore. It was something like marriage, marriage who we break a marriage.

Marcus Mizelle (36:44)
Mm-hmm.

okay.

Interesting.

Parsifal (36:58)
He gave to me a lot of important suggestions, important... Really, was something like an author, a co-author. Something like that, because he has really great, brilliant ideas, but he didn't get my vision. And ⁓ so it was so painful for me, but so painful is a nightmare for me. It was a nightmare because after March...

Marcus Mizelle (37:13)
Okay.

Interesting.

Parsifal (37:22)
April, May, after five months together working on the editing, mostly himself alone, but when we met each other, we didn't speak anymore the same language. It's happened because also when you leave, I lived something so strong in Vietnam in that moment for all the shooting that I come back really changed my mind. All the experience that we had is changing. For the editor, it's difficult to have...

Marcus Mizelle (37:35)
Okay.

sure.

Parsifal (37:50)
to understand that you are not anymore the same of before. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (37:53)
They're not as connected in a way. Maybe they have

fresh eyes in a certain way, but also they're not as, they don't see the in-between stuff, I guess. That's so interesting.

Parsifal (37:59)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

so in the middle of the summer, last summer or last year, I was so desperate. It was a nightmare because I was only me in front of the editing line. For me, it's a nightmare. The editing is really a nightmare. One year ago, yes.

Marcus Mizelle (38:12)
really?

One year ago about. About one year ago. Okay.

Parsifal (38:22)
And I was desperate in front of like in August of last year. I didn't know how to get out from the story line. I feel that the film is there, but the editor didn't feel that the movie was there. Yes, give me time. Then we broke the relationship and broke the partnership for editing. Yes. And we started to work with Alicia after two months, three months that I stay alone to find a solution, to find something.

Marcus Mizelle (38:41)
Mm-hmm. The marriage. Divorce.

Parsifal (38:51)
some way to tell the story that I want without cut the most important things that I want to say. Then Alicia Kam, she was a woman. We needed the woman, a woman to edit. ⁓

Marcus Mizelle (38:56)
Mm-hmm.

I got a story for you real quick. This

is so important though, man. It's not even just, the editing is so big and not even just, it's like the devil's in the details. Like even the little things, you can go from like it not working at all to it completely working and blowing the doors off with even just one tweak or one little thing. And it's all about just like the right kind of fresh qualified eyes and ears, right? Anyways.

I've been working on this document. I'll keep this very brief because I don't want to talk to you. I've been talking about my own stuff, but whatever. This is kind of a diary entry type situation to there's this private investigator documentary I've been working on for four years and we I thought it was done. You know, it's pretty good, but there's some issues and we screen it. We did a friends and family screening this past Saturday and it was good. But for me, I needed to screen it in front of 50 people to really see what isn't.

working and to feel cringy about certain moments. And simultaneously, I had a now friend who's a filmmaker who actually met on this podcast. It was a great documentary filmmaker and she wanted to watch it She loves And then she showed it to her producer and the same day as the friends and family screening, she was like... ⁓

We'd love to get on the phone with you." And so we talked and she's like, this is really good, but it could be better if you're interested in possibly having us help you out. And I'm like, yeah, I think so because you guys feel right. So anyways, as we speak, you know, we're reworking, we're editing again. I'm in that phase you were just speaking of where it's like, you know, I was where I was at and no matter how much I wanna be done and how painful this damn process is, if it can be better, then let's make it better.

And I do think it's like right there, but it's 15 maybe percent away from being, just how do you say? It goes from good job to like, whoa, great And to even have people that I really respect to believe in it enough to wanna help me with getting to that process. It's very exciting. It's very cool.

Parsifal (40:55)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Marcus Mizelle (41:06)
also talk about, please, just the kind of weird, strange relief or whatever you're feeling with getting to this phase, you know, where I say, okay, the film's done.

After all that, now we're screening it. How does that make you feel?

Parsifal (41:17)
You

happy, of course I'm happy I'm not the kind of person that live for this moment I mean the festival, all the fashion, all the VIP and I don't love this I love to stay on the field work but of course I feel that this is an important moment because to stay in a kind of festival like Locarno it means that

Marcus Mizelle (41:30)
Mmm.

So sure, fancy.

Parsifal (41:47)
voice of the worker. Also my professionalism will grow and I will have more possibility to work on this topic, on this kind of topic. I hope that from after Locarno we will have more possibility and maybe we can... I can dream to more about bigger movie. I mean to make more meaningful movie and have more tools in my hand.

Marcus Mizelle (42:00)
Yeah, definitely.

Hmm

Parsifal (42:14)
So for

this I'm excited. I'm excited for what will happen later. I'm in the moment that I dream. Then, yes, I will enjoy Locarno, I will enjoy the community. It's part of the play, of the game. So, of course, I want to enjoy this moment because we deserve it. I love that the main characters come to Locarno, but it was not possible. It's painful.

Marcus Mizelle (42:19)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, makes sense.

Sure,

⁓ damn. That sucks.

Parsifal (42:42)
Yeah, I dream to bring them in some festival and I hope it will happen someday because she, the family, really will love to enjoy some festival.

Marcus Mizelle (42:52)
But for them to

even know that their story is getting out there, I'm sure is really good for them. Really ⁓ a great feeling. Can I ask you this? What any past films, past inspiration that you have, ⁓ either or, just in general, or that helped you when you were making this film? Is there anything that your film reminds you of that already exists? Any past filmmakers you really like?

Parsifal (42:56)
Yeah. Yeah.

So in general, it's not so popular what I'm saying to you also because your podcast is about also the movie that we make and the movie that we have been inspired. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I feel so uncomfortable in our community of filmmakers because I prefer to read books more than to watch movies. I can see. I can see maybe.

Marcus Mizelle (43:19)
Cool, let's go. We need.

I try to, you know, it's 80 % now, but yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I like film books actually, bios and stuff.

Parsifal (43:42)
So when I start a movie, I try to not get inspiration. Maybe I'm also bit ignorant about movies. I feel like that. Not so experts about filmography. But I have some reference. Because the scene, for example, the scene of the factory, the way that I start to think about the...

the visual concept in the black hole was about Dogville. Dogville was a motion. I'm using that movie to with my DOP. I want to discuss. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (44:13)
⁓ hell yeah

Lars Von Trier, yeah? Did that.

Nicole

Kidman was in that, I believe, right? was a Scarsgard, was Scarsgard in that?

I never saw anything like that. And of course, you know, I was coming from an American mainstream audience, but Dogville had like a ⁓ healthy video release here. And I never forget like, what in the hell is this movie at the time? You know, I was like 17 or something. Yeah.

Parsifal (44:40)
Yeah, I didn't know how can I

talk about that movie, but I thought that movie was something very strong symbolically. So I thought I tried.

Marcus Mizelle (44:51)
And

yeah, and people that haven't maybe seen, sure most people have, but it's like this, shot, it fully acknowledges just this almost like marks on the floor. It's almost like a stage. It's like a stage rehearsal in a way, as far as the aesthetic design is, right? But it's filmed and it doesn't really, but they operate in a way where it's like that's supposed to be normal or

Parsifal (45:02)
Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (45:14)
chose to almost just strip it bare of production design. At the same time, it was production design, describe Dogville?

Parsifal (45:21)
I think it was strong because it was honest to show how was the missing scene. The missing scene was so declared and so the symbolic space was so strong that even on me that movie has an impact and usually I'm not so good to... usually the movie on me is very difficult that they have an impact and

I have on mind that movie. I remember at least that movie. It was meaningful. But, and then, one important director, recent director, I worked with him also in the last movie and he was really inspiring for me for the way that he managed the set, is Roberto Minervini. For me, he has been a teacher because Roberto Minervini.

Marcus Mizelle (46:04)
Okay.

How do you spell his name?

Parsifal (46:11)
He is an Italian director but based in the US. He makes movies about Texas people mostly. Louisiana, the other side.

Marcus Mizelle (46:21)
Oh yeah yeah yeah, okay

Parsifal (46:22)
I worked with him like assistant sound assistant.

Marcus Mizelle (46:26)
Very cool. Very cool. Roberto Mendovini.

else we're gonna ask you

Parsifal (46:30)
another

one who really inspired me for the scene of the factory was Oppenheimer, the act of killing. He was a reference, it was a reference, clear reference because we want to talk about, it's something like a reenactment that we did. So we use part of the reenactment to make a laboratory, to give...

Marcus Mizelle (46:38)
Okay.

Parsifal (46:53)
tools in the hands of the workers and Oppenheimer was aspiring for this idea.

Marcus Mizelle (46:59)
which circles back to what I was talking about. Yeah, that one moment in that film where for me, was like, had never, even though, I still think it's got its own thing, even though it was inspired by that, those scenes that you shot were definitely very unique. It's very cool. And it's cool to see that in documentaries. It's cool to see, I don't know, what do you say? Stylish, cinematic, I don't know what the words would be, where it doesn't have this typical documentary.

thing to it, you know, it's more of this like unique thing you haven't seen.

I have one more question for know, if you could go back in time to your early filmmaking self,

what would you tell them?

Parsifal (47:32)
difficult question. I often think about this and...

Marcus Mizelle (47:33)
Mm-hmm.

Parsifal (47:38)
No, it's difficult because...

Don't waste time and to be brave always when you feel when you feel what is right for you when you feel your way sometimes to make this kind of job look impossible for people like me for example I come from the working class so my father when I left my job my safe job with a big company

to make a filmmaker to go to Vietnam and say you are crazy. Yeah, I will never support this idea. This is a suicide. And economically it's a suicide. For a working class people it's terrible. Yeah, it makes no sense. makes no sense, sometimes it makes no sense, but after all these years and also now that I'm going to Locarno, yes, it's painful, but if I think...

Marcus Mizelle (48:16)
It makes no sense to these people, What? You're gonna do what?

Parsifal (48:30)
All the times that I listen the suggestion of older people, of... I don't want to say normal people, but obedient people, always... of scared people, that always give you suggestion to be not brave, to stay on the street, stay on the trail, stay on the trail, don't go outside, it's dangerous...

Marcus Mizelle (48:52)
Foe online.

Parsifal (48:54)
But when you don't feel comfortable with this, you suffer. I suffered for many years because I don't have the trust on myself for some years. I go to work in a multinational, in a corporate to sell iPhone, to sell smartphone. And it was so painful for me for three years I worked in there, I worked in Texas too, I worked in Italy. It was good, but it was so painful for me. It was not me.

Marcus Mizelle (49:24)
Wow, you were living one of the lives of those workers in your dock, in a way.

Parsifal (49:27)
Yeah,

that was the secret every time that I can bring... This is the second movie that I do about workers. the main things, the main important things that make me strong in the building relationship with workers is to share my past life. When I tell that I'm a worker, I was a worker, this is the secret of my relationship. I'm like you. I'm privileged because I'm ⁓ in Italy, I'm not in Vietnam. Okay, I'm a white man in Europe.

So I'm more privileged by you. But I know what it means to be exploited. this is... This has no price because people see you like one of them. Not like someone from up, someone from upper class, someone from director movie who... No. I'm a I'm a worker. I feel like that. And I feel that I suffer to do this job.

Marcus Mizelle (50:00)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm. Mm.

Parsifal (50:23)
And so, back to your question, it's difficult when you're young to be really rebel, really rebel to feel yourself, to feel what you feel and to take the risk to become really poor. So, to myself, I will say don't waste your time believing yourself and let's do what you feel. But...

Marcus Mizelle (50:34)
Mm-hmm.

Parsifal (50:46)
Really, if I come back and I see a young man like me and I see him... This is the paradox because I say, yes, feel yourself but have mind because it's really dangerous. You have to be ready to lose everything, to be really poor, to eat bread and drink water for years and maybe you will be lucky one day to work and to make it the job that you love. But it's bad. It's bad, it's dangerous.

Marcus Mizelle (51:05)
Mm-hmm.

Parsifal (51:14)
And I don't know if it is right what I will say to me if I come back. I don't know if this is right. in a community, in the society, in a world that bet on the life of the people. You can grow and you can die easily and this is not right. You can spend all your life to follow your dream, to make the right job, the right things, and you can fail.

So the thing is, are you ready to die for what you want to do? And I always say yes. me, but many people not. So the suggestion could be not so good.

Marcus Mizelle (51:53)
love

it. It's such a powerful, beautiful response. And also I saw something recently on Instagram. It must be true if it was on But it was just basically these regrets of people on their deathbed. And the top regret was not living, not doing, not choosing to do what they wanted to do, you know, with their life versus falling in line,

I wouldn't even wanna go back in time, I don't think. I don't think I'd mess with it because it's a fun idea. It's a fun question, right? But it's not about the fantasy of doing it. It's more about just like, what have you learned? And we don't learn these things unless we go through these processes, right? Unless we go through the struggle, right? And then you wouldn't have this film if you didn't have your experiences.

Parsifal (52:16)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (52:36)
you're qualified fully to talk about these themes and these stories, right? Because you were one of those people in your own way. struggle is beautiful. Struggle is growth. If you can hopefully, you know, take it and use it. So thank you again for sharing. Thank you for sharing your, taking the time and sharing your journey. And that's good advice too. And I hope you have a hell of festival premiere and beyond. Yeah.

Parsifal (52:54)
No, not today.

No,

thanks to you. It has been nice and congratulations to you because you have been good to take out from