E75 • Distribution Starts With Knowing Your Audience • ALAN D’ESCRAGNOLLE, Co-Founder of Filmhub

Alan D’Escragnolle breaks down how his company Filmhub is rethinking distribution, shifting away from gatekeeping toward flexible, film-specific strategies. Instead of a single path, films are matched with what they actually need, whether that’s AVOD, SVOD, or a more hands-on sales and marketing push.

The bigger shift is economic. With hundreds of thousands of titles entering the market each year, access is easier than ever, but monetization is harder. Success now comes down to positioning, artwork, and understanding where a film fits in an oversaturated landscape.

At its core, the model has flipped. Distributors can get your film out, but they won’t build your audience. The takeaway is simple: know who your film is for, think long-term, and treat distribution as part of the process, not the finish line.

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Transcript

Marcus Mizelle (00:21)
Alan Descranola down how his company FilmHub film distribution, shifting away from gatekeeping toward flexible film-specific strategies. Instead of a single path, films are matched with what they actually need, whether that's A-VOD, S-VOD, or a more hands-on sales and marketing push.

The bigger shift is economic. hundreds of thousands of titles entering the market each year, Access is easier than ever, but monetization is harder. Success now comes down to positioning, artwork, and understanding where a film fits in an oversaturated landscape.

At its core, the model has Distributors can get your films out, but they won't build your The takeaway is simple. Know who your film's for, think long-term, treat distribution as part of the process, not the finish line.

Marcus Mizelle (01:05)
need you to tell me how to pronounce your name because I don't wanna mess with them.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (01:09)
Descranial.

Marcus Mizelle (01:10)
I never would have gotten that. Yeah, nice, nice. Myzel is French-German apparently as well, my last name. So they say, you know, I mean, the internet told me that, so don't know if it's, my family doesn't. It really does, it really does.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (01:11)
Yeah, French, French and confusing. Yeah.

Awesome.

The internet tells you a lot of things though, you know.

Marcus Mizelle (01:27)
Film Hub, you start Film Hub?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (01:30)
So started by originally by my co-founder, who's Klaus Badell, world-known composer by Empire's Caribbean, Gladiator, Thin Red Line, Wish Possible 2. And started as a side project out of his music business. And Klaus originally saw that the projects that he was working on that were massive, big budget Hollywood productions, there were films to the right and left being made that were, he will say directly, sometimes better than the films he was working on that were under distributed.

And the overall instance and idea was how do we make it super simple for filmmakers to get access to distribution? historically, this has been a industry filled with gatekeeping and making decisions on what gets distributed and what doesn't based upon a select few and not paying attention to what the audience actually wants. And so started that. And then I joined on as a co-founder.

to help scale it. had a background building technology companies, everything from Square and the Cash App and to it and .com. And, you know, knew that for a modern day distributor, it wasn't just about relationships and people, you had to combine relationships and technology.

to make that happen.

Marcus Mizelle (02:35)
so I'm an independent filmmaker. I've made six feature films and

I've worked on big film sets while I made films, you know, as a grip forever until like 2014 or whatever. when you said, you know, Klaus was realizing that, was realizing that he was surrounded by great films that weren't getting distribution, I felt the same way coming up with me and my friends making stuff. Not that, you know, we were making wonderful things, but it seemed there was no space like this then for us to ⁓ kind of get out and be seen.

I feel like you guys have... Would democratize be a good word for this?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (03:09)
depends, right?

Like each film ultimately has a different, you know, journey, venture, what it needs, right? So, you know, Film Hub as a company, right, we're a full service sales and distribution company. There are certain titles that we will say, okay, we are just going to help push you out into the major AVODs and fast channels and libraries that exist. Certain titles that we're saying, hey, we're going to get behind you and

Marcus Mizelle (03:16)
Totally.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (03:36)
actually put in a lot of P &A and marketing efforts and certain films where we will partner and go, hey, we're gonna partner with folks in the theatrical area and make sure it's released theatrically. Or maybe sometimes it's, hey, this film actually needs a full service sales effort, needs to be pitched to the major SVODs and broadcasters before. It really depends and you have to meet films where they are. And...

Marcus Mizelle (03:40)
wow.

That's very cool.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (04:03)
You know, it's a misconception that honestly is, you know, many filmmakers think, ⁓ Film Hub just, you know, puts these films up on these, you know, couple streaming services. Well, yes, for a bulk of the films we work with, that is the right path for them. But some films need a bit of extra love. And we, you know, we have the services and capabilities of doing that. And most distributors do. And that's, think, something that, you know, many filmmakers need to when they're finding a distribution partner or sales partner.

They need to really talk with them of like, is the strategy for this film? And that's, think, something that is not as discussed. Filmmakers assume a lot of the times that a film will be handled in a certain way without having the upfront conversation with their sales and distribution company.

Marcus Mizelle (04:47)
wow. So you guys do a swath of, you're all over the place. a film that you would choose to give P &A for kind of a bigger push, maybe a theatrical, it just depends on the situation with the film itself, who's in the film, what kind of film it is, what the marketplace is kind of saying it wants at the time, things like that.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (05:04)
Totally depends, right? I mean, I'll give a prime example of a film where we just got heavily involved with P &A and put a big marketing effort behind. did a, it was actually a docu-series, a docu-series called Balance, all about paramenopause and an excellent group of filmmaking duo, two female Jane Monks. One of them is a former military vet.

And you know, they put together this amazing docu-series about paramedic paws a topic that is highly in the zeitgeist right now But is honestly very little content and films and topics being made about it, you know There's some movies that are there's some there's a couple documentaries. There's a couple books that are being written But you know something that affects, know, physically 50 % of the population And you know also, you know affects men very much as well. That is an under talked about topic

And we knew that that was a topic that needed to be told. And so we got involved heavily with P &A. had a big press effort around it. We got the filmmakers on the Today Show. it had Jeannie Mai and Alyssa Milano had EP'd it. And that was a film and docu-series that we thought really needed an extra push. We hit top three on Amazon Prime Video on it, hit top five on Apple. And that was an amazing success for us and for the filmmakers.

Marcus Mizelle (06:18)
Can you talk about briefly just sidenote?

Bringing on an EP, putting a name to the top of the film. Can you talk about how that kind of, just briefly, I'm just curious because I'm kind of going through it right now with my situation. Does that help? Obviously it does help, right? And I guess talk about kind of process looks like and how it might help to have kind of a Alyssa Milano as an EP. Yeah. And any other kind of thing that might help to boost the...

the perception of a film. mean, do these things still help, I guess?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (06:43)
Yeah, totally. And so in this instance, right, it was a docu-series. Alyssa Milano and Jeannie Mai were both in the docu-series as well, right? So they had parts in the docu-series as well as where EP is attached to it. And so that really helped elevate it in terms from a pitching perspective. When we went to buyers and OK, let's have a conversation. This is something that someone will recognize, right? And the key is in today's market, right, you're always trying to have

There's so much content out there that you have to have something that helps you stand above the rest a little bit, right? We perfectly honest if this film despite the fact there's a super high quality docu-series without those EPs attached, unlikely this would have gotten to the Today Show, right? Because the Today Show wants someone that they know that their audience is very familiar with, right? That can actually drive that engagement, right? They utilize the audience that Alyssa Milano and Jeannie Mai bring

And that's an exciting piece for them. And that's an area that helps elevate the title ultimately in that area.

Marcus Mizelle (07:44)
And you also have, which one is this? This is ⁓ Burt. This is your latest press release, April 9th here. Hub acquires Indie-Dromedy Burt ahead of World Parkinson's Day. So yeah, what's this project about?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (07:55)
Yeah, so Burt is an awesome film, you shot in seven days, became a festival darling ultimately. And yeah, pretty crazy. And, you know, we saw the film and we're like, OK, we just have to get this out in the world. And, you know, we, you know, we've gotten involved with the filmmakers. You know, we're currently helping them go through a transactional release and we're just super excited about, you know, tying into Parkinson's Day. We're going to be donating a part of the profits.

Marcus Mizelle (08:04)
Seven days. Ooh, okay. That's cool. That's really cool

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (08:22)
to the organizations associated with the film. And it's just something that has to be told. the story of making this film in seven days, the quality they did is absolutely amazing.

Marcus Mizelle (08:32)
I'm starting to see a pattern here too. It seems like you really care about things that are untapped. You're talking about Perry Menopause, you're talking about Parkinson's, things that, these are good causes. These are good causes that you're getting behind.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (08:41)
Well,

the biggest thing that I say in distribution, and this is what I advise filmmakers on constantly, filmmakers want to know what's going to make money in some things, right? When you take topics and themes where there is not much content or resources available about them that affect a large number of people and a large number of people are interested, if you have one of the only films or docu-series or documentaries, whatever, in that space,

Marcus Mizelle (08:51)
Mm-hmm.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (09:06)
you're likely to be known by a good percentage of that group. And so that is a good way to kind of figure out, okay, you know, not going to where people are making a lot of films, go to the areas that are untapped and, you know, think around the other side of it. At the same time, right, you know, like every filmmaker right now is making a true crime docu-series, right? the same time, that is also interesting because of the fact that the true crime audience is

Marcus Mizelle (09:10)
Makes sense?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (09:32)
voracious in what they want to listen to and watch. And so even if there are thousands and thousands of these being made right now, hundreds of thousands probably in some instances, there's still such a veracity for them that it makes sense.

Marcus Mizelle (09:35)
Mm-hmm.

And what is the fresh angle of that genre, I guess, right? It kind of, I mean, it's.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (09:48)
Yeah, it could be the French angle,

it could be the, you know, story that hasn't been told, right? Maybe it's within the area where like, the story two years ago that like was all over the news that hasn't had something made about it, people want to understand more about it, right? Those are the areas that get interesting.

Marcus Mizelle (09:54)
sure.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Do you ever think in terms of typically kind of what you think might be the thing in six months to a year? Does your brain work that way as far as kind of, okay.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (10:12)
I am not that type of person that

says, this will be, this is going to be huge at this amount of time. I'll leave that to the real good creative brain to do that. And I'll take a chance on it.

Marcus Mizelle (10:18)
Yeah. Yeah. Got you.

And you're

just taking note of kind of what's going on around you and saying, wait a minute, this is a space that we could fill with said project, I guess.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (10:33)
I use this example constantly. We were one of the distributors on hundreds of beavers. Darling of the Independent World, amazing film. And I saw the thing and I was like, I just don't get it. And I didn't see it. And Kurt, the filmmaker, Brian, is like, this is going to work. And it took him a little while to find the audience of where it really resonated. But he was right.

Marcus Mizelle (10:39)
yeah.

I didn't see it.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (10:57)
You know, people loved it and I loved it. It was just like, I didn't think there was a big enough audience for it. I thought some people would like it, but it was a huge, you know, and it wasn't necessarily a huge audience. It was just an audience that wanted it so badly that they were willing to pay for it. And that's huge.

Marcus Mizelle (11:11)
And you're not gonna be able to see every single angle or see what other people might see sometimes, right? Yeah, yeah, Yeah, nice. Okay, so I'm gonna go back to, I'm just gonna go back in the past a little bit here You did not come from a traditional studio system. Your background is in Silicon Valley, you previously held roles at companies like Google, Intuit, Square.

So just go back before Film Hub. Movie distribution. Was there a moment for you where you got excited about that? Where you were like, I want to do this? Was there a moment or a situation or an incident? know what I mean? What was that turning point for you to try to go from Silicon Valley to the film business?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (11:44)
Yeah, so it actually starts growing up. I loved musical theater. In college, I actually ran one of Penn's largest theater organizations known as the Mask and Wig Club. full length comedic productions, 20 show run, taking the show on tour, whole nine yards. And so I've actually produced shows. then I decided not to go to the mail room of LA, but to go build companies in San Francisco afterwards.

always kind of had this itch to get back into the creative side of things. But knowing that I am not a creative myself, I like supporting creatives. You do not want to see me sing, or dance. It is an ugly sight. know, I always had that itch to get back to it. And so, you know, I was beginning to think about and I've always just also been an entrepreneur at heart. I started importing car parts from Brazil back in high school. I'm half Brazilian and so, you know, had this itch of

Marcus Mizelle (12:16)
I do actually now. Now I do.

⁓ interesting. Okay.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (12:32)
entrepreneurial aspect plus love of media, technology, and storytelling. I was trying to figure out how to make that happen and met my co-founder. And we were off to the races through a good friend of ours. A good friend of ours, investor in the company, who's been incredibly supportive of us in our growth phases. And we are thankful for that introduction.

Marcus Mizelle (12:42)
How did you meet Kloss?

I just have ask about him real quick. Is he responsible for the... that he'd make that Pirates of the Caribbean melody? Okay. Because that is a big one. I showed my kid... it's a big one. It's a big one. Yeah, I showed my kid that film about a month ago. I think he's not too young. I don't know anymore. And he loved it. know, the Jack Sparrow's coming off the ship and that kicks

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (13:01)
Yes. Yes. Yes. It's a big one. It is a big one.

Marcus Mizelle (13:19)
Okay, so.

Before Film Hub, let's talk about the existing distribution models. before, I guess, streaming.

And maybe even we talk about pre-sales and foreign sales into streaming, very briefly of course, and then where it's at kind of now. And then where it's headed, if there isn't another place that it's headed.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (13:36)
Yeah.

So, I mean, we don't have to get, let's go a little historical here, right? Like there's a lot of levels to go here. We've got to understand how film and TV distribution business started, right? And like you really got to understand the waves that it's gone through, right? So when we started making movies in, know, call it the 2030s, you even though we did make a couple things before that, right? You're making these, you know, expensive films on reels, right? You have to...

Marcus Mizelle (13:40)
It's a lot, yeah, sorry.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (14:03)
you figure out how to copy the reels, and then you're going to events throughout the world to sell those reels, right? And you're selling those reels territory by territory, right? And that's how things like Mipcom and the CanFilm market developed. And we kept that all the way through, really, the advent of streaming, right? And, you know, yes, DVDs, VHS kind of changed a little bit of it, but it really just changed the medium that you were distributing, right?

Marcus Mizelle (14:21)
Crazy to think about,

I guess

they offered more additional distribution windows with the physical media, right? But it wasn't changing the, yeah, just added on, yeah.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (14:32)
Exactly, right.

Exactly. And, you know, that same model held true, right? And then all of sudden in the streaming world, you didn't really need to sell territory by territory anymore, right? All of a sudden, one computer could be utilized to make a film available throughout the world. And it wasn't about getting yourselves into a physical blockbuster or physical theater.

is all about how do we project this across thousands of computer screens, TVs, everything. And so every evolution of technology has just made the need for foreign sales to be less and less. Because unless you're really marketing into specific broadcasters or specific theaters or specific marketing areas, you have the ability to get a story told worldwide in one to two clicks now. And...

that is a big change to the industry that is reluctant and slow to adopt those changes. And that's how we've developed windowing strategies where it's like, okay, we are going to pre-sell this film in this territory because this actor is large there and we believe this broadcaster would buy it and have it as their marquee title for the year. That exists sometimes, but that isn't for every single film.

There's only so many films you can go through that, and that can be the marquee title on broadcasters, theatrical locations, everything. And in a world where IMDb alone has over 400,000 films and series made per year, Guess what? That means there's a lot of films and shows that are made exactly. And so while it's easier than ever to make it, we're oversaturated as market.

Marcus Mizelle (15:59)
just saturation is the thing. ⁓ it's overwhelming.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (16:08)
And so when filmmakers hear they're like, I'm making no money. It's not doing anything. Well, guess what? You're now competing with every single film in the world. You have to stand apart. And then it depends on, what is the monetization method? Right? If you're going to theatrical, in a theatrical instance, you're making, you know, five, 10 bucks a ticket. If you're in an advertising world, you're probably making 10 cents per view. So like the pure economics of the number of people that have to watch it.

are completely different in those instances. Yes, it's easier to, know, way easier to get a film out on an advertising-based service today than it is to get a theatrical distribution deal, but the economics change significantly. And you're then reliant on algorithms, you're reliant on, you know, your ability to market, virality of the sharing of that film, and it just changes how you have to think about the actual distribution of it.

Marcus Mizelle (16:57)
It's wild, it totally shifted, it's serious shift. Let me ask you this. Do you think the film culture surrounding, let's just say the video store, and I'm nostalgic, we're probably about the same going in there, it wasn't just about the films, it was about the, what do you call it, just the way they released films, they slow rolled it, and maybe this is ignorant for today's world, it seemed like it really helped to make you look forward to it more, and when you went to the video store and it wasn't in,

You wanted it even more. You were hoping for the next time. You know, you've created this like sense of demand, more demand, you know, less supply, more demand. And then it seems like it's the opposite now where it's more supply. It's readily available. Everything's readily available, which I think has decreased the demand. Again, it's a broad, such a broad conversation, but ⁓ it's an interesting landscape where it kind of got inverted a little bit. But again, like also I know that film video stores aren't coming back. I know that

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (17:43)
Well, here's what you have to realize.

Marcus Mizelle (17:51)
It's a novel thing. You've got the vitiates and you've got the fun niche kind of little pockets. But man, I would, maybe a few of us, me and a few other people would go to a video store if it was still around. But the business model does not make sense.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (18:03)
There's a few that are

still around. Some are starting to have more and more foot traffic in them. The key is, remember, let's go back to, we had Artemis II come in the other day, right? Made me rewatch Apollo 13. ⁓ Great movie. ⁓ so good, actually. Really, really, really great. I mean, one of Hank's finest moments. Yeah, totally.

Marcus Mizelle (18:15)
yeah.

nice, how'd that hold up? Thanks for bringing up a past movie. That's a good one.

Ron Howard too, probably, right?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (18:29)
And in rewatching that, remember one, I remember my father buying the used Blockbuster VHS at Blockbuster, right, that he loved. Right. I have a specific memory of that one sitting on the shelf. He probably does. And you think about this, but you remember also the great thing in that era was this, was it 94 probably was.

Marcus Mizelle (18:40)
Mm-hmm. Yeah

Do you still have it somewhere? Probably not. Nice.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (18:57)
Paul 13 something on there, 96. And yeah, it was like Jurassic Park era, all the good things. you think about that and you remember one of the best things in that era was there was so little being marketed to you actually compared to today's world, right? You pick up your phone today, you're being marketed to things on the go to go, go, go, go. In that world,

Marcus Mizelle (18:57)
Maybe so. 94 was such a crazy good year.

12 fiction.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (19:19)
You were going to the movies probably three to five times a year as an average American, right? And if you're going to the movies three to five times a year, you're sitting and watching those commercials at the beginning every single time. And that's driving what you're going to watch next, right? You're completely captured by those ads, and then you see a billboard, and then you might see it on TV. So you're getting a...

Marcus Mizelle (19:23)
wow.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, They would do promotion.

Some of the bigger ones would do promotions, cross promotions with fast food chains. Remember that? Yeah, and it was consolidated.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (19:45)
Yeah

And there wasn't much

other, like the number of marketing touches it took to actually have something stick in your head wasn't nearly as many as the number of marketing touches it takes today.

Marcus Mizelle (19:54)
But everything was more prestige

because it was less product. And again, we're talking about also curated gatekeeping situa- well, I mean, you know, there was less, much less product yet, but, I guess it did, it just, it's hard for me to watch a movie from that era now. And as commercial as a lot of them might be, they were just, everything about it was just more revered, you know what I mean? Including the releasing of it, but everything flipped.

to where there's just so much out there and nobody knows, including myself, even though there's a lot of great stuff, even quality aside. I go on the streamer and I'm like, I've sat down and watched something finally. It's not bad, there's some good stuff out there, but the problem is I don't know what to play. And I think everybody can understand that I don't know what to select. And so it's just this conversation, this topic is just so interesting to me because how do we maybe play in a space where there's best of both worlds?

Yeah.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (20:45)
I

think the key here is we're entering an era where there's going to be a rejection of social media, et cetera. It's happening already. It's already happening. We're all oversaturated. People are returning more to in-person events and venues and smaller intimate settings. We're exhausted. Yeah, totally. And so people are going to start caring more about authentic connection. We're seeing it already happen with the

Marcus Mizelle (20:51)
Can't wait. Can't

We're tired. We're just exhausted. Yeah.

Mmm.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (21:09)
of like digital first creators and people you know I think this is actually the thing that gets me really excited about this next era for filmmakers. I think this is going to be the first era where audiences really have a relationship with the filmmakers and we are finally I think ready for it as a society as a group. Don't forget as a filmmaker

Marcus Mizelle (21:23)
Cool.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (21:31)
you only knew kind of the top folks, right? You knew you were on Howard's, you knew you were Steven Spielberg's, you knew you Quentin Tarantino's.

Marcus Mizelle (21:40)
Then you had kind of the Sundance 90s. The 90s is very interesting into the way where the film, the indie film crowd, the rebels, their Mavericks were kind of coming up and coming through. By the way, Apollo 13 was 95. Sorry. I my OCD Virgo brand had to go ahead and put that in yeah, you know, it's like that culture of and again, it for better and for worse, there was no perfection involved with that era. But but, you know, as far as the oh, the author, the American author, you

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (21:47)
Yeah.

I said 94 and 96.

Yeah.

But we now want, you we had this instance where we really, our relationships were with the actors and actresses, right? Finally, because of technology now and, you know, kind of the fall of the great studios, call it, right? And we are in a world where filmmakers are actually going to be owning their audiences and owning their engagement with fans. And that is going to completely change the way

Marcus Mizelle (22:14)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (22:33)
that this works. And the filmmakers that are going to win are going to be the ones that realize that they have to build their audience. If they don't think about that and they're relying still on the platforms and, you know, platforms and distributors to like build that audience, that doesn't work. Right. And I'll tell you the reason why it doesn't work is because building an audience

Marcus Mizelle (22:51)
Right, Yeah. Look at what, look, oh go ahead, I'm sorry, go ahead. You were on your own.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (22:59)
doesn't happen in today's world with one film.

Right? You need repetition. You need to grow that over time. If you're going to be a filmmaker today, right, you got to be thinking, how am going to put out a film every one to two years, at least, if not faster? Right?

Marcus Mizelle (23:12)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to

a place back in the past of ⁓ Roger Corman, thinking about Roger Corman, know, how he did it. Like, that's what he did. I was looking at my, I'm looking for the Roger Corman book that I love and read so much, but you know.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (23:18)
Yep.

But like that's what

that's how it's going to be. Right. And that's what, you know, digital creators are teaching.

Marcus Mizelle (23:27)
Isn't it interesting though when you can go kind

of go back in the past sometimes and you know, pun intended and find the solution for what's next, you know, it's like, it's not like it's not been done. It's just, Corman was banging them out. And I guess it was volume, but it was also to what made me think about it was when you said just knowing your audience, knowing your market. He did, yeah.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (23:43)
That's what matters. That's

what matters, right? And that is the most important thing. And that's why I say to every filmmaker that comes to me, listen, my job is to help get your film out in the world. That is my job as a distributor.

Marcus Mizelle (23:54)
Mm-hmm.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (23:54)
The job of a distributor really is no longer, for the most part, to build the audience around your film. Right? And that is changing. Right? I'm here to help. If you need some tools, marketing services, et cetera, I'll do that. But unless I'm producing the film, you've spent the last two years thinking about this film, sitting on set for day to day.

Marcus Mizelle (24:01)
Gotcha. Yeah.

You

can't do what they're going to be able to do. That's just what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (24:18)
I can't do what you're gonna be able to do. There's no way, right? And so like,

that's where the biggest thing is that like, filmmakers are in the world now where they need to just come and accept that because they are missing part of their job as a filmmaker is really identifying and understanding who the audience is. If you show me something that you've been thinking about for three years plus in your head and I watch it for two hours.

Marcus Mizelle (24:35)
Mm-hmm.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (24:43)
How am I supposed to have the understanding of what this film is? I can't, like, I just can't.

Marcus Mizelle (24:46)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I

ask you this? let's just say I'm a filmmaker and I have a passion project, I have a baby. But I wanna understand my potential audience better. I feel like maybe there is one, like it's a basketball film, let's just say. In North Carolina, let's just say. And okay, cool, there's two targets. People that like basketball and people that live in small towns, basketball country, North Carolina, whatever.

How could I hit, let's just say, I'm like, I hit you up. Hey, Alan, what's up? What kind of, I don't know, tools could I expect from Film Hub? Or what could I expect potentially? And I know this is probably too broad of a question, but you know what I mean? I don't even know what to ask exactly, but I'm like, how could Film Hub help me out before I make the film? Is that a thing that could, even just a conversation to have? To be

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (25:22)
I'll give you...

Well, definitely,

Well, the key for us, right, is like we, you know, we have filmmakers that have been with us now for four five, some people have released 20 films with us now, right? In those instances, right, we build relationships with our filmmakers, right? These are people that we've worked with, you know, for years. We understand the pitch process of their films and series. We understand where they've had resonance. We also can compare that to other films in that maybe their topic, theme, genre, style.

Marcus Mizelle (25:56)
Nice.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (25:58)
and have that as a conversation of like, folks listen, like here is, you know, something that I see that is working with your films that is not.

that you don't understand why it's working and here's why it is working, right? And those are data points that we have because we work with so many different types of films and filmmakers and platforms, right, that we can have that conversation. I mean, I'll give you an example, right? Like, we work with a filmmaker who is excellent in the, I'll call it the kind of street lit, of, you know, black cinema genre.

So kind of like we're gonna call these fast cars. There may be some guns, there may be some drugs involved. Give you an idea of kind of like a Fast and the Furious type area, but mainly geared towards the black audience, right? He excels there. And he came to me, he's like, Alan, I've been making these films, they've been doing really well. This is a filmmaker that makes seven figures a year sometimes. And he's like, but I wanna up-level my quality.

Marcus Mizelle (26:36)
Okay.

you.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (26:53)
How do I do this? How do I think about this? And we're pairing them up with ⁓ a production team that is going to help elevate those films, get some better cast in there. We're going to help them package that film into actually not just a film that we're going to take and sell once it's completed, but we're actually going through a pre-sales process with some of the major streamers. And because we're getting feedback from them on what type of actor they want, and so that we can pre-package that film.

But the only way that that happens is by building a relationship. Because if you don't have that and you just show up one day, no one knows what you're about, right? I can go to a streamer and I have confidence because I know that filmmaker and what they can do. And so I can stand by my word that that filmmaker is gonna make a good film if I put this all together. I can't have Marcus show up first time I've ever seen him.

Marcus Mizelle (27:28)
Mm-hmm.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (27:44)
and be able to represent that to a major streaming platform. I can't. And so that's why the relationships are actually very important in order to get these things done.

Marcus Mizelle (27:45)
⁓ Right.

Nice. I think some filmmakers, and I'm just going to speak for myself, might think they don't understand how much you guys actually offer. Yeah,

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (28:03)
We're full service sales and distribution company,

we work with over 6,000 rights holders now. Everything from individual filmmakers through major studios now we have clients, right, that we distribute their catalogs. And each one of those has a different need. But don't forget, I mentioned, right, we're in a world of volume, right? And the whole film and TV industry is, right, with 400,000 films made per year, right?

Marcus Mizelle (28:27)
you say per year?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (28:28)
400,000 titles are added to IMDB every year.

when you think about that, right, and we know that we operate in an industry of power laws, right, the top X percent are making most of the money, right, it becomes that there is a large number of people that are underserved, their films aren't, you know, watched as frequently, and that ultimately leads to a large group that is

not able to get the distribution that they want or their film just doesn't find an audience. And so there is a lot of, which is the nightmare, right? And I wish that I could, you know, change the rules of economics and make it so that each one of these films, you know, really saw millions of views, but that's not possible, right? And, you know, for Film Hub, right, we are, we do pride ourselves on having an offering for a filmmaker at every step of their journey, right?

Marcus Mizelle (29:00)
Which is the nightmare, right? It's the worst thing.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (29:21)
as they grow through their first film, through their $10 million production, right? And we have capabilities of doing each one of those. And, but because of that, right, a lot of things ultimately will be said about Film Hub, and we understand this, that, I didn't get what I wanted, it didn't come out, and it's like, it's just a nature of ultimately what the film was capable of. And that is, you we want to support films at every step of the journey, but not every film is gonna make it to the highest level.

We know that.

Marcus Mizelle (29:47)
Nice, thank you for that breakdown. me ask you this before I forget. What are some of the things that you see kind of pushing a film? Broadly speaking, know, know every film is different, but are there any kind of common denominators that help really push a film to get some more eyeballs, to get out of, say, saturated place? Or is it just different for every film? Like, do you just kind of treat every film as like, we need to hit this angle because this film has this angle?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (30:11)
I mean, the number one thing comes down to, well, first off, it comes down to what platforms is this film going to do well on, right? So, for instance, right, if you're in the UFO documentary space, the place where you're gonna make the most money on right now is probably a mix of Amazon and YouTube's Free With Ads program, right?

Marcus Mizelle (30:17)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, so you

know the landscapes and what's happening in those landscapes. Yeah, okay, that's big.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (30:32)
Yeah. And so in those

instances, you're really playing a game of SEO and optimization, right? Where it's like your artwork matters, your title matters, what people are searching for, the metadata. That's really all that you can affect.

Marcus Mizelle (30:47)
Would you say that's kind

of like just like the bait on the hook needs to be real nice? I mean, as far as SEOs are concerned and et cetera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so, and if you don't have that, you're fucking, you're not doing yourself any favors. ⁓ Yeah, and it's such a simple thing, but a lot of us forget to do it.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (30:51)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like.

Yeah. mean, like...

There's so many films that I come

to the filmmakers and I'm like, hey, listen, we think this film has a lot of chances, success, but I just ran a quick marketing test against this title artwork and like, are people, is it resonating with people? And it's not resonating at all versus this one that is gonna have a 50 % higher click through rate. Do you wanna pay to create this artwork? Like, no, I don't wanna take the chance on that. And I'm like, okay, well, guess what? You've shot yourself in the foot right there.

Marcus Mizelle (31:27)
Wow.

Literally shot yourself in the foot. Yeah.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (31:31)
And

so, you know, those are the decisions that people make sometimes where that's really what matters. know, artwork is the most important thing right now in the world.

Marcus Mizelle (31:41)
And to understand why they might choose the other route, is it because it's just, I like this more subjectively, which is not a good enough reason, which is not a good, yeah. It's like,

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (31:46)
I like this more subjectively. feel that it's, which feels

the right from a creative perspective for me. I'm also, maybe I've spent $5,000 on that one and this artworks and it cost me $2,000 to create on this artist, even though it's better. All these things are, yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (32:00)
So it's an ego choice in a way-ish versus

maybe like this is what's objectively the best business choice for the movie that cost money to make.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (32:06)
Totally. For me, for me,

right, I'm just going to let the data tell me what wins. Right. It's just like, I'm but that's easier for me as a distributor because I'm able to pull myself like I'm not there to judge your storyline. Right. That's ultimately the audience that needs to judge that. I do sometimes have to make a little bit of a decision. Is the buyer at the platform going to accept this storyline or is that, know, I have to I have to get my brain in the head of the buyer to understand, are they going to take this?

Marcus Mizelle (32:12)
Yeah.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (32:33)
Right? Because my relationship is with the buyer of the platform. And if I show them something, they're going say, Alan, no way in heck I'm going to take that. They're going to be upset with me. Right? And that means then I'm going to get less films up and less films distributed through them in the future. So that's the funny place where our lives as a distributor, like my job is really to get as many films out there as possible to be seen on platforms that make sense for them. work with the buyers to get there.

Marcus Mizelle (32:57)
Got you. What about older titles? Like let's just say a film that the licensing comes back into the hands of filmmaker after like eight years. That's what you're saying. Yeah?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (33:05)
I love those. know,

it's like, here's the thing, right? I mean, I'll give you an example. We have a film that I absolutely love called An Honest Liar. It's about the amazing James Randi, world's foremost magician after Houdini. It's a 2014 title, went to Netflix at one point. It theatrical, just small theatrical run, went to Tribeca. And it is just a great documentary. It's got some cool LGBTQ elements, great stories and magics. It got Alice Cooper in it. It's just like...

It's a fun doc, right? Meesom, filmmaker behind it, brought it to me. He's like, Alan, like...

a deal with this film, do you wanna try and get it out somewhere? And like, that thing still spits off, good money, people still wanna watch it, it's evergreen content.

Marcus Mizelle (33:42)
That makes me happy to hear. That's so cool.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (33:44)
goal of the filmmaker, right, especially as we talk about building catalogs, is to get your catalog monetizing. My goal with Film Hub is to help filmmakers create annuities that spin off and give them X dollars per month to keep funding their new projects, right? Filmmakers don't think about their films in the same way that musicians think about their music, right? Musicians are...

used to the concept that their music keeps being listened to over and over and over again for many years. That's why you have all these, know, Bieber and et cetera selling their catalogs for millions and millions of dollars is because people want the value of the annuity. Our goal with Film Hub is to help filmmakers build that annuity, right? The filmmakers I've got that have got 20, 30 titles with me.

They're happy as a clam because they have a monetary source that just keeps spinning out money. They know that they can make a new one, add it to, and some will do better, some will do worse, and that's okay. But that's the goal. A constant steady stream of income is very, very valuable.

Marcus Mizelle (34:42)
Do you have a criteria at all? is there something that you would say, no, not for us, sorry.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (34:47)
We have technical criteria based upon what we know that platforms will take, right? But our criteria ultimately comes down to a basic kind of no hate speech, et cetera, things like that. But our goal is to really find a film the home it deserves, right? And I am very much, our motto ultimately within this whole piece is like we are just stewards of the law.

Ultimately in what is like can be distributed what can't be don't care what your right leaning left leaning whatever your you You like whatever you like. It's fine. We just want to help it find a home. That's it

Marcus Mizelle (35:21)
It's pretty, pretty rare. Honestly, this film hub is pretty cool. I mean, it seems pretty cool. I'm just going to read this kind of a I just want to give kind of a general breakdown just for people that might not be clear on how the kind of steps work or the offerings work and also just kind of sneaking in the breakdown of for people, you know, what the differences are between.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (35:37)
Okay

Marcus Mizelle (35:38)
And also just the differences between the T-bods and the S-bods and the A-bods, you know, because I think most of us understand what it is now, but some people might not quite, you know,

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (35:46)
know, Filmhub operates across every rights type in film and TV, ultimately. We, you know, we do, we help release films theatrically across broadcasts, airlines, libraries, subscription rights, transactional rights, advertising rights, fast rights, physical DVD rights, you know, even work with.

Marcus Mizelle (35:47)
Thank you.

DVD still,

are you still selling, are you still dealing with a lot of that?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (36:07)
still wheeling and dealing DVDs on the side corner on occasion. you know, so we work with films at all stages and across all rights types. And it really comes down to the distribution strategy for that film and what makes sense. And so, you know, for most films in today's world, right, you know, the upfront fixed fee license is something that is kind of a thing of the past, ultimately.

Marcus Mizelle (36:10)
That's awesome, a side corner on those.

Right.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (36:31)
because of the fact that most streamers now are really studios, right? They are making the decision of what they are going to green light and what is going to be their original. And they're just a studio, right? Even if they have maybe have another production company that creates it for them, it's a commissioned work, right? And so unless you are operating building a commissioned work directly for a streamer, it's very unlikely that you're going to land a fixed fee deal for a period of time.

in that instance if you sell a fixed fee deal to them you generally have no upside if it does really well.

Marcus Mizelle (37:01)
You're just locked into whatever you got for the license fee. Yeah, yeah. Can we talk about the paramount decree real quick? Do you mind? Right, because it wasn't that a law in place until what about five, eight, six years ago, where you could not be the studio and also the distributor, right? And so things changed with, now that's not the case. It got lifted and now let's just say Netflix can make their own thing and obviously distribute it, stream it. That's a thing that hasn't really...

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (37:03)
Good.

⁓ yeah, go for it.

Marcus Mizelle (37:27)
think it's been talked about too much as far as that's a huge kind of shift that you throw in the pot of what's happened in the past 10 years. Right? What'd you say?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (37:33)
Yeah, I mean,

like, well, all of a sudden, right, like, I everything is just a vertically integrated studio, right? really if people look at the evolution of Netflix, right, they went from blockbuster video on in mail, right, to, you know, a place where everyone took their back catalog and put it online. And then all of sudden realize like, oh, those catalogs are now going to be gone from us. We need to go make our own content.

And they're now just a vertically integrated studio. That's all there.

Marcus Mizelle (38:01)
I thought about

this recently, it's crazy how Netflix, the label that's seen as killing physical media, was the last physical media company in a way. It's interesting.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (38:09)
Yeah. Oh, don't forget, they

just shut down their DVD business, what, three years ago now? Two, three years ago? And a lot of people tried to buy it and they didn't want to sell it.

Marcus Mizelle (38:14)
Do you know about this kind of?

Because that wouldn't help them, right? Do you know about this kind of little word on the street that physical media is coming back for? Select few type of nerds out here, film nerds. It is happening, you think it's happening? Nice. Because I have 1,200 of them and that's just good for me. Okay, cool. It's so nice to be able to pull the thing off the shelf though and look at the artwork and look at the behind the scenes. The whole interactiveness of it, it's more than just the film. It's like this...

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (38:21)
Yeah, we'd help them, yeah.

Totally is happening, right? it's happening, right? Yeah, see, there you go. ⁓

I'm hoping

you find that Apollo 13 copy behind you somewhere.

Marcus Mizelle (38:49)
I mean,

it's probably, I should have it. I would be surprised if I didn't have that. And then let me say this. So Amazon, Roku, Tubi, Pluto TV. Well, Roku, Tubi, and Pluto especially, Avod's, right? Talk about that space and how good it's doing, if it's doing good. I I love them. I love them because it's just this.

Boom, I love it for filmmakers because we can get our stuff seen immediately and you can direct people right to it. But also I love how it's like a throwback cable situation in my mind where it's like, I don't have to choose what to watch. I can just go to a certain channel and they've selected a crime film for me, et cetera. I love that.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (39:25)
It's an amazing service, right? They are amazing services for folks and they, you know, they're getting new content, back catalog content across the board. The hard piece is a filmmaker, right? These services are advertising based, right? And the advertising world, now that every single streamer, broadcaster has an advertising based service, means that there's a massive amount of supply of ad inventory.

and the ad dollars haven't transitioned from broadcast cable into advertising on these connected TV devices as fast as people would hope. And so there's a massive amount of supply with not enough demand for the advertising. And so what's happened is we're in the era of the great devaluation of film and TV content. And that is something that is very concerning for filmmakers in general, right? And it's why you're seeing a lot of new filmmakers that are

trying to do brand deals as part of the creation of the film, right? Is because they realize the way of monetizing it is changing.

Marcus Mizelle (40:23)
Would you say brand

deals or placement on steroids? Okay, yeah.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (40:25)
Product placement and steroids. Yeah, exactly.

You like in the big sick, right? Uber didn't show up there randomly. And so, you know, that is that is one of the scariest things happening right now. So while these services are phenomenal, it is a scary moment for folks making film and TV content because the great devaluation of content is happening in our first

Marcus Mizelle (40:32)
Right, yeah, coincidence, yeah.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (40:50)
in front of us at our eyes.

Marcus Mizelle (40:51)
Yeah, you can get your films out there in front of people, as far as business is concerned, yeah, not good.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (40:56)
Yeah. Well, I mean,

you know, if a filmmaker now, right, has a million people watch their film on an advertising-based service, right, they're making 10 cents per view on that instance. 10 to 20 cents, right?

Marcus Mizelle (41:07)
Yeah, it's like,

just give me zero actually because it's more insulting to get 10. But I get it, it's right.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (41:10)
Well, but at a million,

you know, if you had a million people watch that in theaters and you were getting five bucks, that's five million bucks.

Marcus Mizelle (41:18)
If you could just make it to the theater, I guess. That's the trade-off there,

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (41:20)
Like filmmakers

are actually seeing their films made watched more than they ever thought possible today But are making way less Yeah

Marcus Mizelle (41:26)
It's just not translating into USD, I guess. yeah, yeah,

that's that's the yeah. collection and optimization engine. If we could talk about that, as far as just like it, you guys take a rev share, right? But there's no upfront fee. Is that correct?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (41:38)
So

we have a couple different models in the way that we work, right? So we have, you know, we, I'll start with saying that we have kind of two main types of deals that we do with folks, right? We do a non-exclusive deal where we distribute you across, you know, all the rights services that make sense for your film. It's an 80-20 non-exclusive deal. That's kind of the most filmmaker rights holder friendly deal in the world.

Marcus Mizelle (41:53)
I love that.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (41:59)
We then have added services on top of that where you can get like better analytics. You can get a dedicated person that talks to you. We have all those kind of options available for you. And then we also have an exclusive distribution which is more equivalent to your standard distribution deal. Those are like generally 10-year deals, higher revenue share split, but maybe we're putting up an MG or an advance on those films. We're getting a bit more involved in our – yeah, we do. Yeah, we do a lot actually.

Marcus Mizelle (42:22)
you still do some images for certain films. Nice. That's cool.

Nice.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (42:26)
Those are kind of two main ways that we work with films within there.

Marcus Mizelle (42:29)
And would you, any place or space out there for short films by chance? Documentaries or fiction?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (42:35)
So we do work with

lot of short films. Film Hub, we we own another company that we started that launched a consumer streaming app called Relay. And Relay has a lot of short films on it. It's a really cool, low cost, $4.99 subscription-based service available throughout the world. And our goal with that was we saw there were so many films being released that, know, short films, right, there's no major service that accepts short films, really, for the most part.

Marcus Mizelle (42:54)
Right on.

Right,

right. Schwartz TV was doing it for a minute, I guess, you know. I licensed a few from back in the day, but are they gone?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (43:04)
And so, yeah, it doesn't really exist.

And well, I think they exist in some locations, but they're not available across all devices, right? And so we wanted a service that was available everywhere in the world. And so you can go there and find them.

Marcus Mizelle (43:14)
Right, right, and it's kind of more Europe-heavy, I think.

Gosh. Also,

I like this conversation a lot and that's why I'm so annoyed with this. I'll get over it, I'll be fine. But like, I'm trying to squeeze in as many questions as possible because I feel like you got some answers I need. But also I wanted to, I just, what I would personally want to see is a space or ⁓ a channel, maybe it's a fast channel, where I could go and it's almost like this, like, man, I'm a film guy, I'm a film nerd, I'm film obsessed person, you know, obviously.

But I would love the channel where it's like a film... It's almost like the Sundance channel used to be or IFC channel. Remember those? I want that. Where is that now? Where it's almost like a local access channel part meets like short film slates meets ⁓ festival coverage. Where the fuck is that?

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (43:59)
So

go to pickrelay.com, which is our consumer streaming app. Go in there, hit the search button, and search Sundance Films. You'll get a bunch there right now.

Marcus Mizelle (44:09)
But you know

what I mean, as far as even just like a almost like, you know, to be an old cable situation where you would just go into a channel and they would like the way Criterion does their, I love the way the Criterion does their, their 24 seven, where it's like taking the choice away from you is such a relief. That combined with, you know, just like for me, I would love to take what I do, which is, you know, try to have, say these are these interviews to have certain people's films, you know, in the certain short films or events, film related events and just have a slate.

trying to do all that work but I'd love to watch that channel I'm always trying to think of fresh new ways to like we can do whatever we want to do the question is what do you want to do right and then how do you want to do it because there's ways to do anything you want these days it seems like it's like how do you do it what do you want to do how do you want to do it and how do get people to know about it and

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (44:53)
Yeah.

It is easier than ever to build something, right? The hard part is what to build and getting adoption. That's it.

Marcus Mizelle (44:56)
Mm.

All right, last question for you then.

If you could get in a time machine and go there be anything you'd tell yourself

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (45:06)
if I were to think about the one thing that I would tell myself when I started building in film and TV, the number one thing would be this is an industry that does not want to change. It is an industry that wants to keep things the way they are. And that is the strangest kind of back and forth problem that an industry faces.

because you have an industry that wants to hold on to what it is and has this nostalgia factor and doesn't want to push forward the way that the rest of the world is working. And if you can figure out actually how to combine those two of keeping the bits of the nostalgia, the Fun Fox we've talked about, the Apollo 13s, et cetera, and at the same time pushing forward into new technology and methodologies of distribution, that's where the sweet spot

But you have to understand that people still want to latch on to things and that's balancing that is tough

Marcus Mizelle (45:57)
That's a great sound button, it's really cool. It's been very informative excited for y'all. Y'all, feel like it's way the future, way the future. Real quick, what's your favorite movie of all time? Terrible question.

Alan D'Escragnolle (Filmhub) (46:03)
Awesome.

I will tell you that it's cinema paradiso to the people that you know are cinephiles, but really it's Happy Gilmore.

Marcus Mizelle (46:10)
Ooh.