E18: The Healing Power of the Holy Spirit (with Mike Nolan)

Do healing miracles still happen today? Who can receive the authority to heal? What if I’m in need of healing?

Tune into this month’s episode of Catholicism 101, where Mike Nolan from Shadow on the Water joins us for a conversation about the power of the Holy Spirit and healing.

Be sure to check out Shadow on the Water for more of Mike's wisdom about the charisms of the Holy Spirit, pilgrimages to Medjugorje, and more!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hi, friends. Welcome back to another episode of Catholicism 101. Today I we know I'm always excited, but today I am especially excited because I have my friend Mike Nolan here with us. So, Mike, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about you?

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Sure. Yeah, awesome. No, I'm so happy to be here. So I'm uh just a normal guy, but I um I have seven kids and I've been married for 27 years, and I got two grandkids birthed, and one and my daughter's in labor right now. So uh well, she's in and out of labor, you know, so she'll have the baby in the next few days or so. So um very exciting. Family's growing, but yeah, we've been walking the Christian walk and uh uh been very tied to Mejigoria. My formation in the my spirituality, like has all been a fruit of of Our Lady of Mejigoria. So she my family's been involved with Mejigory for many years. I first went there in 1990, and I believe I've been there somewhere between 90 and maybe 105, 110 times. I'm not sure. Somewhere in there, I have lost count. But um, yeah, just so uh deeply we're just being carried by the womb of the church, and uh I firmly believe when you belong to the blessed mother when you just take her as your own, because you know it says uh from that hour, describing John, from that hour he took her to his home or took her into his home, but in the Greek it says he took her to his own. That's what it's literally says. He took her to his own. He said, Okay, you are my mom. I just feel like when you take blessed mother to be your mom, just okay, you're my mom now. Everything in the church just lines up for you. The church becomes the most, you know, like uh, you know, there are some places that are a hostile environment, the church becomes the most, and it it is that way, but without the blessed mother, it doesn't quite make sense because the church is derives its motherhood from Mary. The lumingensium says that derives its motherhood from Mary. So when you receive Mary as your mom, you're receiving the church as your mom, and the church becomes the most healthy environment for you, just like everything just lines up and it just carries you, you know. So, and this has been a fruit of Megjugore, Megori, just like you know, the Eucharist, very Eucharistically centered, and uh um uh repentance and the Eucharist. So you have confession and the Eucharist, so um are just the heart of the of what they of Mejory. So that's kind of carried me, and then had I did have a big baptism in the Holy Spirit at an encounter ministries conference, and I've been walking in the spiritual gifts in a more in in a in a yeah, totally like on fire compared to how I was, you know, I would suggest my Christianity before was like um I was on my best behavior, you know, trying to do my best, trying so hard, and uh uh almost like using the faith as to get out of a hole in the ground, if it that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

And since the baptism of the Holy Spirit, like like I believe Metragoria gave me a new wineskin, and then the baptism of the Holy Spirit just filled it with new wine. So I've uh just been walking in the prophetic gifts and just watching God do incredible things, and then the gifts of of uh physical healing, inner healing, discernment of spirits, deliverance, and just it's been amazing. But anyhow, so that's kind of like who I am, and so I bring trips to Mendragoria, and that's where we met. You came to Magoria with me.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Yes, oh my goodness, and I got I got to witness your gifts in action, and it was just oh just so beautiful. And so I I'm just so excited to have you here today to talk about, you know, more of the the Holy Spirit's role in each of our in our lives, because as you know, so often whenever you're just walking the walk and you're just talking the talk and going through the motions, you know, you're not having that inner transformation. Whenever you welcome the Holy Spirit into that, it compl it completely changes your entire life. And so um seeing that happen on different degrees and like experiencing that with you in Mejigory, and honestly, like the highest degree of the presence of the Holy Spirit I have ever encountered. And I remember before I went to Mejigory, people were like, There is a thin veil between heaven and earth, like the Holy Spirit, you can you can just about taste him in the air. And I was like, Okay, well, I've been to like Steubenville and I grew up going to Gasper and I worked there, and I'm like, I've been places where the Holy Spirit's thick, I'm sure it's just like that. And then I got there and it was just kind of like a two by four to the face of like, oh like the Lord gives good gifts, and I didn't realize how good the gifts could get.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Isn't that wonderful?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

And so kind of going off of that. Um, I I'd love if you could specifically talk about the the Holy Spirit and healing, you know, not just physical healing, but the those wounds of our hearts, those wounds that we carry, whether or not we're aware of them. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Yeah, okay. I I know this is very close to my heart and is very much my experience, you know. I I walk in inner healing and I lead a lot of people in inner healing, but I've led many, many, many, many, many people through inner healing. But I also walk in it, you know, healed people, heal people, right? Hurt people, hurt people, healed people, heal people. But uh, so that just the idea that when you walk through something, you gain an authority there, and your faith when the Lord when the Lord resks rescues you, that's what I should say. The Lord comes in and rescues you. You your faith level is so high there that you can't wait to set other people free there too, because you know that it's not based on them or what they can do or on their own heroism or anything on them, it's on them just receiving God. Like He does it, He will rescue you the way He rescued me. And then that becomes like the most beautiful like lens or or uh just uh connection point for like evangelization or or healing or you know, whatever. He rescued me, he can rescue you too. He is so good because it's so focused on him and it glorifies him, and it's so easy because you have nothing to prove, you know. So, yeah, with healing, I believe I keep seeing, even just as we start the podcast, I kept seeing Luke 10 where Jesus says, Do not rejoice that the demons are subject to you, rejoice that your names are written in the book of life. And I keep feeling like the Lord wants to just dismantle any false belief system that some people have access and some people don't. You know, you may feel like you well, other people get healed, or other people have the gift of healing, but not me. You know, that's not me. Yeah, and uh the truth is that um you know Jesus rejoiced when the when the disciples came back. He had sent he sent out 72 disciples, and they returned, and he did not give them authority over demons. He just said, Go cure the sick and tell them the kingdom has come near to them. Okay, preach the gospel. So they went out and did that. They came back rejoicing that the demons were even subject to them. They were sharp. And then Jesus is overjoyed, and he said, Yea, I have seen Satan fall from the heavens like a lightning bolt. And he says, I have given you authority over scorpions and serpents in the full force of the enemy. So he rejoiced, yes, they are subject to you, even though he didn't say it. Because the 72 are us, you know. This is not this is just believers. And uh and then he says, But do not rejoice that your uh your that the demons were subject to you. Rejoice that your names are written in the book of life. So I just want to say to anybody out there, if your name is written in the book of life, which happened when you were baptized, rejoice because all these things are gonna happen in your life, or you have access to all of this, I should say. If you want it, you know, you have access. Uh like when we when we heal uh so I've learned, and I had to, this is a learning curve here. I had to have a renewal of the mind that when I pray for someone for healing, when they get healed, it's not a reward for my holiness. It does not add to my stature in the kingdom of God. I already have my stature, which the church calls divine filiation. You are adopted into the family of God. I'm a son of God through Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. I'm that's who I am. That's my position, and no one can take me that from me. I can hand it away if I wanted to commit mortal sin and just leave and go to hell. I can do that if I want, but nobody can take that away from me because Jesus, his act of his dying for us, his act of obedience to the Father, so pleases the Father. You know, it outweighs the the just punishment for all of our sins. And he bestowed upon me the rights of his divine sonship and upon you. So I'm a son, and even when I sin and I recognize my sin, I come back, I repent, and my sonship never leaves. God he pulls me right back in and kills the fattened calf, you know, ring on my fingers, roam on my back, my feet. So then the walking in the spiritual gifts of healing is a is just something that flows from who I already am. It doesn't add to me. It just is what a son would do. Like Jesus says in Matthew 5, to love your enemy and pray for your persecutor as sons of God. And you will be like sons of God. That's what the sons of God does because they don't have anything to prove. It doesn't it doesn't matter if I'm received by people, I can love them anyway because I'm so received by my father. When your roots are secure in the love of your father, then you it becomes less it doesn't take you down when people don't receive you. You can still love them, you can agape love them, right? And it's the same with the gifts. The gifts are there because that's just what the family of God does. They we set people free. That's what we do. That's what it means to be a Christian. You set people free. You do the Isaiah 61. You know, the Spirit of the Lord is upon me. Well, the Spirit of the Lord, it's upon Jesus, right? That inheritance comes to all of us. Because he gifted it to all of us to preach the gospel to the poor and to uh set people free, to release prisoners, incite to the blind, heal the brokenhearted. That's what being a Christian is, and it just flows from who you already are. With that renewal of mind, then it's it's the easiest thing in the world, okay? Because when you pray for healing, all you do is sit there, really. You don't have to. I mean, you you got you pray, you abide with the Lord. You that's that's the hardest thing is just you realizing that you're a son. Because that's Hebrews 12, is all about like how God strengthens your sonship muscle, is he kind of takes away, he shakes off all everything that's shakable, so only the unshakable remains. He takes away any other spot where you where you find value or you find where you have substantiated yourself, he kind of takes those away, he prunes those away, and so that you only have one spot of value, one place to find identity and value, is that you're a son of the father who loves you. Amen. Unshakable, that cannot go away. And um, oh you know, there's a great analogy for it. Jesus, when they're den denying his identity, as he's walking in the portico of Solomon in John 10. They they start questioning his identity, and he's defending himself, right? Well, the portico of the Solomon is the one part of the temple that was not destroyed. Got destroyed and re had to be rebuilt. The portico of Solomon was never destroyed. So think about that. What's the portico of Solomon? Solomon is the son of David, Jesus is the son of David, right? Or another way of saying son of David, it's Ben David in Hebrew. It also means just beloved son. That's what it means. David means beloved, beloved son. So so they never could take away, though they tore down the temple of his body, they could never take away his sonship. That he is the beloved son of the father. That part remained. Isn't that cool? And that's his identity, that's his whole identity, is his beloved son. Doesn't need anything else, but um uh with with when it comes to healing, uh, yeah, so you have this Hebrew Hebrews 12 where he strengthens your sonship muscle. But what is God trying to what what happens when you rest in your sonship? You can just abide with the Lord, and as you pray for healing, you literally put your hand on somebody's shoulder and he does what only he can do. Let me tell you, putting your hand on somebody's shoulder is really easy. It's not hard.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Oh, yeah. I mean, do you do you remember whenever we were in Majigory with with our new friend? And we just kind of we both looked at you like, what just happened? And I just like I had one of those moments where I'm like, kind of want to look at my hands and be like, oh my gosh. Love it. And it just the I was I remember being so surprised and still am of just how effortless it was. It was just all I had to do was surrender and be like, Lord, I don't know if you're gonna do anything here, but if you want to, go for it. And here I am, you know, as any of that, here I am, Lord, send me. And then I would just, I was like, okay, let's do this. And then bam, a miracle.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Wow. Wait, can you can you remind us all about the miracle?

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Oh my goodness. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

So we had it was his knee. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah, it was his knee. So we we had made um a friend, Monica and I, who was my roommate, we had made a friend uh standing outside of the the statue of the risen Christ. And we get to talk and he starts telling us, he's like, Do you guys know who this is? And he pulls out a Saint Benedict medal out of his pocket. And we're like, okay, we're clearly supposed to meet this guy. And so we go and we talk with him for a while. And he later tells us that the whole time he was like, I have got to get away from these girls. They're trying to get me to a worship night. And like he just kept saying, I'm not very religious, I'm not very religious. And so, um, lo and behold, through like a miraculous encounter with some Italian people and him not being able to get away from us or like make it normal or make it not weird to get away from us because we're literally right across the street from our pension. And so he can ends up coming with us and he's just sitting there the whole time and we're we're singing and we're praising and we're praying and uh and you're prophesying and all of these things. And then all of a sudden you're like, all right, let's pray for healing. And he kind of looks at me, he's like, My knee is kind of my knee kind of hurts. And I was like, Well, get up. And he was like, No, I don't know. And then I don't even remember exactly what I said. It was something like, What do you what do you've got to lose? What do you have to lose?

SPEAKER_03 16:01

You know? Yeah, what's the worst case scenario? You don't get healed and you're insane.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

You don't lose. Yeah, it's like, why not try?

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

And then, you know, first time, first time it his pain went from like, I think it was like an eight or nine. He had he had a he's a roofer in Ireland. He's a roofer in Ireland, and he had apparently fallen off of some equipment and it ran over his knee. And he was having a lot of knee trouble. And so we prayed for healing, and he's like looking around at all of this. He's like, I wasn't very religious before this, I wasn't very religious before this. And um, I mean, just looking at me almost like I'm like a witch or something. And I was like, dude, that's not what's going on. That's not what's going on, and you know, and then kind of had an even deeper encounter with Christ and was able to climb Khrushchev's the next day.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

That's right, zero pain.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah, we we met him on Khrushchev. Wow, going up the mountain, and we were going up, he was going down.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

He was just in in disbelief. I remember his face, he's like, I have zero pain. I he was coming down the mountain, he's on the bed. I cannot believe my knee because he has chronic like level eight, level nine pain.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Incredible. No, I'm telling you, it is a it's incredible. There was another lady I prayed with um who had a uh uh all severe back problems. I mean, severe. And uh as I put my hand in her back, her back was filled with heat, and then it took a little while, maybe a week or so, and all of her back pain is completely healed. And she went and got checked out and everything. Doctors are like, this is a miracle, you don't need me anymore. And uh, but the funny thing is, I remember seeing like when I saw when some somebody sent me her uh testimony. She mentions there, Mike Nolan put his hand on my back, and I was so tickled, like, oh man, it was me who who you know, my flesh is just like, oh, I love it. I'm the one and then the Lord just reminded me, like, all you did is put your hand on her face.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

It's like he's like, Hey, shish. Hey, dude.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Um, you happened to be there, and everyone has a hand can put it on something. I mean, it's not but the Lord does the impossible and it's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Yeah, and the thing, the other thing, the other like miraculous healing, at least that I I got to be a part of in Majigori, was um I was at the Statue of the Risen Christ, and you know, they're talking about the you want to get these wipes and you want to you want to collect the liquid on these wipes and everything. And I remember I go up there and it's finally my turn, and I'm like, I'm gonna take my sweet time. I've got 10 wipes, everybody's getting their own, everybody's getting their own wipe that has I know for sure has a liquid and you know, being like being uh picky and specific and control freak, like I am or have been tend to be. And I remember um just still taking a minute and having my hand on the knee and just praying for my mom back at home, you know, across literally across the world. And um just thinking of her and like because she had arthritis in her knee and just being aware of like, you know, I know that's been bothering her a lot lately. And, you know, every time I see her, she she's talking about how her knee is really bothering her. And I was like, you know what, Lord, if you want to heal her knee, then you heal her knee. And a few days later, um, it kind of stayed in the back of my mind. I'm like, I wonder if that even did anything. And a few days later, I was on the phone with her, just kind of giving her one of those updates whenever we could talk for a few minutes. And I happened to be like, hey, uh, just by the way, like, how's your knee doing? And she's like, you know, it's funny you ask, because I was just telling dad, and like I was just telling dad and Penny that um it's it's pretty darn good.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Wow, so Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Like you don't even have to physically be there to pray for healing for someone. And the other thing, this keeps coming up in my mind as we're talking as like the Lord gives good gifts and I want to receive those gifts. Immediately we kind of fall into that tendency of, what do I have to do to earn the gift? What do I have to do to earn the gift? And I would love if you would speak into that.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Yeah, so this is really important because uh Paul says pursue the higher gifts. He says it more than once, and he even uses the same word for jealous. He says that be jealous for the higher gifts, uses the same Greek word that um he uses in 1 Corinthians 13 when he says love is not jealous, but then he comes back and says, Be jealous for the higher gifts. But why? He says, make love your aim. So if you're making love your aim and you're pursuing the higher gifts, especially that you might prophesy. This is a first Corinthians 14. He's showing that the way what the gifts do is they don't add to your uh they don't make you holier.

unknown 21:06

Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

You're you're holy because Jesus died for you, and and you need to receive receive that. He invites you to repent of your sin, turn away from the world, and to radically live your life with him. He just wants to marry you, the two of you, just totally one. One of the prayers I say lead people through all the time is all authority in heaven, under heaven, in the earth, and under the earth has been given to Jesus. And Jesus and I are one. It's so important to declare it. Jesus and I are one. Declare it and speak it over yourself. This is holiness. Okay, holiness is to be deeply uh intimate with God. That's what holiness is. And then He brings a deep intimacy with the human family, you know, the with the body of Christ, even the human family. You can even love people who aren't Christians. I mean, you will bless the world because you're the salt of the earth, you're the you're the light of Christ. In him was life. I'm sorry, and the life was the light of men. God wants to shine his life out of you. The fact that you're living. And breathing restored to the Father through Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. You know, go to confession. Whatever. You have mortal sin, go to confession. Every time you go to communion, your venial sins washed away anyway. Because you're back in communion. Get in communion with God. Get deeply intimate with God. And his life will just shine through you. But you think we think we have to earn it. And that's the that is a huge uh problem in the church because it's the original problem that happened in the Garden of Eden, where the devil told them not to trust God, trust yourself or trust him, and grasp at it. Because what what what did he tell them? Jesus, God, uh, I'm sorry, the devil told Adam and Eve, or told Eve, if you eat of it, you will become like God. But they already were God's image and likeness. So they they so he convinced them to grasp at something that it was just gratuitously given to them. They just were it. And so this kind of idea that I have to earn it is it's it's it's a toil, okay? Toil in Hebrew is atzab, and it's the one word that came into scripture when Adam and Eve sinned. One word, atzab, toil. In toil, you will bring forth bread from the ground, in toil, uh increased toil and pregnancies, and in toil you will bring children into the world. You know, he says to Eve. So this toil uh is tied to idolatry. It's the idea, self. I have to substantiate myself. I have to somehow give, I have to somehow bring something to the table that's worthwhile, and then I have value. And it is that is the flesh. Truth is you are of value, just you, you being alive, greatest gift God gave you is you living, being alive, you exist, and then deeply connected to the source of all grace and of life, you know, your father in heaven, healing, prophecy, uh uh setting people free, being the light just flows, it's not something you earn. There is a cost, okay. The cost is this your flesh, because your flesh wants to pay its own bill.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

And can you be specific about what you mean by flesh? Because a lot of people get this confused.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Okay, so the flesh is basically this. I am in competition with the fact that I only have my breath, the next breath. Does that make sense? I have only the next breath. I know I have to keep breathing to survive, but I only get the next breath. I'm in competition with my own death, basically.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

My heart knows that I'm gonna die. It's Jeremiah 17, verse 9, I think. Above all things, the heart deceives, desperately wicked. Who can understand it? I alone search the heart and test the mind and repay each man according to his deeds. So this idea, above all things, the heart deceives. The word uh is uh this is actually a keb, it's the root word for the name Jacob, actually. Um it means to swell out a kob, the most basic, and so it it also means heel because your heel kind of curves out like that. So from all, macal in Hebrew, from all, it's actually akeb halab macal, fru uh the swells out the heart from everything, and then desperately wicked. That word is anosh, and it actually means wickedly desperate. It means actually that you you're mortal or sickly, you're doomed to die. You know you're gonna die, and so you are so from everything you swell, you have to increase yourself, you have to somehow spread yourself out and survive. It's like who's gonna die? Is Abel gonna die or am I gonna die? You know, Cain and Abby because Abel, his what he he they both worked really hard, and he brought his sacrifice to the Lord, and it was accepted by God, and then Cain's is not. So basically, Cain's like, What where does my value come from? I I have just had a a little um death happen, a death is taking place here because what from what the thing that I draw value from is if I have a good produce, if I have a good year, my crop is good, then I know that I'm I am good because I have a good crop. So but what does God say? He says, um, he says, if you do well, won't you be accepted? Now that word accepted in Hebrew actually means to raise. So it's like it's what describes a lepros sore in Leviticus. So if you if you do well, won't you swell up with pus, you know? But if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door, and its desire is for you, and you must rule over it. He was teaching Cain, I'm giving you authority over sin. This is how you get authority over sin. You come become comfortable dying, okay, dying to yourself. So the flesh wants to find its value and what it accomplishes, right? It wants to prove. I want to prove to you that I am holy and I am good and I am worthwhile, so you should keep me. Okay. This is the first temptation of Jesus in Matthew 4. Satan tempts him in the desert, and he says, If you are the Son of God, turn that stone into a loaf of bread. In other words, prove it. Prove it. Do something that only the Son of God could do. And he Jesus says, Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. He's doing the opposite of the first Adam, who didn't trust God. He is trusting God. He's saying, Well, actually, I was just baptized at the end of Matthew chapter three, and I heard the voice tell me, You are my beloved son with whom I'm well pleased. So I'm gonna believe God. I'm not gonna trust you and not trust God. Whereas Adam trusted the serpent and didn't trust God. Okay. He's like, I'm just gonna take it from what my father says. I do not I but trust him, I have nothing to prove, he has nothing to prove. So the flesh wants to prove itself, okay? You're in competition with your own death, and you have to somehow survive. So if you look, there's a key word here. When Cain murdered Abel, the word is cum. If you remember in the gospels, Jesus says taleta kum to the girl. Little girl arise. Kum means to arise. So it says in the the Hebrew scripture, this is Genesis 4, I think. Cain rose, cum, and murdered Abel in the field. So look at the schematic there. He couldn't die to himself. He couldn't rose himself. He rose. He swelled up. He swelled up and he killed his brother because somebody had to die. Somebody's got to die. Either you or me. And uh what did Jesus do? Jesus, because he is a son, he because he trusts his father, and because he has the he he suffered the shame, he despised the shame of the cross, enduring it for the joy set before him. He died for his brother, his brother, the older brother, Adam, right? Jesus' younger brother, Adam's the older brother, all of us basically. Adam and all his seed are one brother, and Jesus is the other brother. Jesus died and then rose. So Cain rose and then killed, right? Jesus died to himself and then rose because his father gives him life. Our father gratuitously gives us life. Because I'm loved by the Father, I have nothing to prove. He will give life back to me. And so the Christian can be comfortable dying. It's okay if I get left out, it's okay if I get ignored or misinterpreted or even accused, like the Blessed Mother, accused of being an unwed mother, you know. She rested in her identity as deeply beloved of God, and the whole world was ready to stone her. And even our beloved Joseph, Saint Joseph was gonna divorce her, being a just man. He's gonna divorce her quietly. The just part isn't just about the quiet. The just was part, that just description of Joseph is also about the divorce. He's a just man, he's gonna do the right thing and divorce her. Even Joseph was turned against her, and she rested, she didn't even open her mouth. And God gave she's okay dying to herself because she knows it's not about her. So that's this is the deal, the flesh. That's the one thing for us. We need to just rest in our sonship or our daughtership. That when I pray for someone for healing, it is not a reward for my holiness, it is not about me at all. Spiritual gifts are something God gives me, not for me, but for you. If He gives me a gift, it's for the body. The catechism says it, like when one person receives a charism, it's for the body, it's to it's to draw everybody else up. So if I have a special gift of healing, it's not because you're not going to heal, it's because God wants to gratuitously pour it onto somebody so that they will go and demonstrate for everyone else what everybody else can also do. Because we all have access to the Holy Spirit. Because when I somebody gets healed when I pray for them, that doesn't secure a place in heaven for me. Do not rejoice because people get healed when you pray over them or because demons are subject to you. Rejoice that your names are written in the book of life. You know, that's so that that's the that's the most important thing. When you God has to kind of bring you, shepherd you into that kind of uh living by the spirit and not by the flesh. This kind of Romans 8 struggle, you know, because the flesh isn't constant. I'll tell you this: I pray for people for healing. I have seen dramatic healings, unbelievable healings, and the most beautiful stories. And I've intersected with people uh within a few days of their death and pray with them and uh multiple people. I think I have a charism for meeting up with people who are going to die and setting them in a real good place with the Lord, sending them back in the uh the sacraments and things because this has happened to me over and over. Okay. And uh there is a time then that I so I've seen beautiful miracles, and I haven't done anything except for been pruned. That's it. The Lord just circumcises me all the time, you know. My heart, my heart, my mind, my my you know, the the flesh basically. Yeah, but because why? Because I have to constantly learn that it's not about me, it's a gift. What's about me is that I have Jesus, He and I are one. That's what's about me. What's not about me is the spiritual gifts. This is for the body. So a season came where I had no healings and I'm praying over people, and nobody's getting healed. And I finally, there's three months, maybe or something. I looked up at the Lord and I was like, What is wrong with you? You know, why won't you let anybody get healed? Other people are praying over people and they're getting healed, but not me. And the Lord said to me right away, if you're taking the blame, then you might also be taking the credit.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Oh, oh my goodness. So you just suddenly you're like, Oh, oh yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe let's go, let's go pray on that. Oh my goodness. What would you so what would you have to say? Um so we we've talked about you know receiving the charisms of healing and the charisms of the Holy Spirit and what that looks like, that it's really not about us. What about for the people who are seeking healing? What is what is what does that disposition look like?

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Yeah, that's really good. Um, this is really good. I I want to say that there are two places in scripture where Jesus was surprised. One was good and one was bad. Oh, yeah, I think is is it Luke 7 with the when they go into Capernaum and uh um and the centurion? I think it's Luke 7, maybe I'm wrong, but he the um he encounters the the centurion and uh basically the the the Jews are trying to convince Jesus that this guy's worthy because he's a lover of the brethren and he built their synagogue. So they're giving reasons. They're right back into transaction, right back into uh the flesh, basically. He's worthy because he does this stuff. Jesus is like, okay, I'll go and heal him. Jesus is walking along, but then the centurion sends another servant to interrupt them and say, He's not worthy. Uh there's the the words for worthy, there's two different words there. One is like axiom, I think, and the other one is uh I can't remember what the other one is, uh, but it comes from the verb to uh arrive. So like he's saying, look, I haven't arrived yet. This is what the I haven't gotten there yet. We all say that I'm a work in progress. But he says, he says, but I am subject to authority, and there are men subject to me. If I say to one go, he goes. If I say to one come, he comes. Only say the word, and my servant shall be healed. Jesus was amazed. That's the next line. Jesus was amazed, he uh blew Jesus' mind with his faith. He put more faith in the authority of Jesus and his good will towards him, and his disposition of and his his uh mission of I'm here to heal, I am the divine physician, okay, and his authority. He put his all his faith there. It's about you, Jesus. This is your glory, right? I I haven't arrived yet, but it's not about me. He so um he amazed Jesus with his faith, and Jesus said, Many will come from east and west and recline with Abraham in the kingdom, but the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness. Because the sons of the kingdom are trying to earn their spot. This guy recognizes he's like the Syrophoenician woman that says, even the dogs eat the scraps, you know, like in other words, you're the master, and you can give the scraps to whoever you want. And Jesus says, Your faith, it is done for you. So the other time that Jesus is amazed is when he goes to his hometown and there's no faith. Yeah, no faith. So he can't do much. So my when somebody's seeking healing, this is my my uh uh kind of uh what I feel in my heart and I very much believe is to cry out to the Lord for healing. Put your faith in his power and his authority, put your faith there. Don't put your faith in yourself or your experience. If you let your experience shape what's possible, then you will limit what God can do to based on what you've seen. But if you put your faith in the power of God, you're like David, who's the one guy who will go out against Goliath. Everybody else is standing afraid on the sidelines. They're like, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. David just goes out, my papa's gonna take you down. You know, I'm gonna chop your head off with your own sword. So have expectancy, put your faith there, just shift your faith. Say, look, Lord, you know what? I'm just gonna put my faith in your great power and your great love for me. And then number two, continue. God gives things to people who really, really want it and will steward it. I've I've met people who have been healed of big diseases who forgot about it. They didn't steward it, they didn't give God glory, they didn't tell their testimony, they didn't uh they and they even left the church and they had healings. Healings don't guarantee faith. They demonstrate the the gospel, but they don't guarantee faith. So um I think God is He gives He heals absolutely, but there are so many of us who like what gives Him great, great, great glory is when you trust Him and you don't understand, you don't have all the answers, or when you praise Him in the midst of your suffering. I heard somebody say once, uh, you know, that there's the gift you can give God, and you've probably already talked about this because you've had but in heaven you'll worship Him perfectly, but here on earth we can give him a gift we can't give Him there. We can worship Him in the midst of our confusion and our suffering. That is a wow, that's agape. That's loving someone when they don't deserve it.

unknown 39:12

That's what it's this one.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

You don't really deserve it, God, because you can heal me in heaven, but I'm gonna worship you anyway. There's something about that that is so beautiful, so purifying, and and it it shows it's the difference between drawing near to him with your lips only and drawing near to him because Lord, I love you. Whether you heal me or not, I love you. I am in it with you. I want to do life with you, God. I want to do resurrection with you. That's one guy. Another guy is like, well, if you heal me, then I'll love you. Yeah, but go after it, stay, go after it, go after healing, pray for it, ask God for it, and don't be afraid. But know this: He is good and he loves you. Put your faith in his power and and his the posture of his heart is to save you. He's already written your name in the book of life. Rejoice over that. Woo! This is no small thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Oh man, yeah, he God gives such good gifts, he gives such good gifts, and it my eyes just keep being opened, especially since going to Mejigori and just being immersed in this of you know, he gives good gifts and he wants to give you even greater gifts. You know, the more you trust him, the more he knows he can trust you and will give you even greater gifts, even greater responsibilities.

SPEAKER_03 40:34

Come on, that's Jim 9 17. You just said it. Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is the Lord. The Hebrew there is blessed so um barek uh hageberweh, who trusts in the Lord or refugees in the Lord. And then the next line is um Vahya Yahweh Mibtaho. And it means Vahya means and becomes Yahweh or Aronai, Mibtaho, his trust. So we try we translate it as um who you know, blessed is man who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is the Lord. But that word Mibtacho, it means in uh in modern Hebrew, it means an underwriter. So a guy works for the bank, or when you you know you got to show the bank, so you got the loan officer, and they you apply for the loan, then they sort they submit it to the underwriter. And he looks at your bill payment history, your debt to income ratio, you know. He uh he he basically comes to a consensus of this. Can we trust this guy that he's actually gonna make good on the debt and pay it back and we'll we'll earn a dividend? And so if yes, then they give you the loan. So that's Yahweh becomes your underwriter. It's exactly what you just said. When you trust in God, he says, Oh, I can trust in you. Because the one criteria for him to trust you is you trusting him. Yeah, it's fantastic that you said it says right there in Jeremiah 17. He is like a tree planted by running water, the man who trusts in the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

And always it's something I have to like. I literally have a reminder on my phone every day since Majigory that says surrender and it goes off at 1 a.m. I have it on it on do not disturb, so it doesn't wake me up. And I wake up in the morning and the first thing I see on my phone is surrender. And it's like, Lord, uh half the time I don't know what I'm doing. Or maybe I think I know what I'm doing and I'm getting a little bit too too big from a bridge.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

And it's like, this is not about me.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

Well, you know, that's that I think the the here's the final point that if you don't mind if I make this point, it'll take me five minutes here. But this is to come from a place of poverty. Poverty is so important because if you come from an abundance, you'll give out of your abundance. And then let's say you show up to feeding 5,000 people. Well, you fed the 5,000, but you didn't realize that their wives and children were gonna be people are gonna go home hungry, okay? But if you show up with only five loaves and two fish, the Holy Spirit will be the true leaven, and there will be 12 baskets left over after everyone's totally satisfied. So giving out of a Jesus said about the widow, she out of her poverty has given more than all the rest, for they gave out of their abundance, but out of her poverty she has given her whole self. The idea of poverty is this Jesus on the cross is poverty. This is not a place of abundance. He is reduced to the place of poverty. He can't help you, he can't lay hands on the sick anymore, he can't preach the gospel anymore, he can't help you with a math problem, he couldn't wipe a wipe your nose with a cleaner. He couldn't do it, he can't do anything. He's reduced to failure, utter failure. So, what does he do? Because he he doesn't have enough, he doesn't have what you need. He doesn't. He's failed. So he gives you his mom. He gives you his dad. He gives you his flesh to eat. He gives you his blood to drink. He gives you his inheritance, the Holy Spirit. You know, he bowed his head and gave over his spirit to all of us. He gives you everything. Had he given from a place of abundance, he would give you part. He'd give you what you need. But no, no, Jesus gives his whole self to you. That's what's like we talk about in like marriage. You give your whole self. Or in vocation. A priest or a religious, they give themselves away, right? They marry the Lord, they marry the church, whatever. Um, you marry your spouse. You give it's a total gift of self. It's total. This is what Jesus did from the cross. Why? Because he did it from a place of poverty. He didn't give out of his abundance. He wasn't sitting up there on his throne giving uh a chicken to this person and uh uh some land to that person and a few coins of gold to that person. No, he gave all of heaven, all of heaven is yours, because oh, it's great, it's in the song Um Jesus, my Lord, my God, my all. You know that song that we sing the uh third verse, thy body, soul, and godhead, all, oh mystery of love divine, I cannot compass all I have, I can't even comprehend all that I have. For all thou hast and art is mine. Everything you have and everything you are, God, is mine, because Jesus gives his whole self to you on from the cross. So also, when you go from a place of poverty, you go from a place of not having enough. Be the widow because she didn't have enough, she gave her whole self, she gave her whole life. It says some of the it's it'll say livelihood, but the word in Greek is bion in one of the gospels, bion, which just is life, bios, life. She gave her whole life. So you go to the Lord, don't give him out of your abundance, give him out of your poverty. When you go to pray for healing, go as someone who does not have enough. God, I cannot heal anybody. I'm I'm coming from a place of poverty here. You have come and do your part. You're the only one who can heal. Mother Teresa would say this. She would say, She would look up at the Lord and say, Um, Jesus, I cannot do anything that you can do. I can't do anything that you can do. You can do everything that I cannot do. But together we can do something beautiful. That's the beauty, is that he wants to do this with you. He wants to sweep you into the middle of his proclamation of the gospel, of his setting somebody free, of his delivering somebody of evil spirits, of his healing somebody. He he has no hands but yours, or feet but yours, or mouth but yours, right? He wants to sweep you up into the middle of it because this is the inheritance, this is his divine sonship that he's gifted to you. So you are part, you're you're you're right in the middle of it. It doesn't add to your stature. He he gave you that when he died for you, and you when you were baptized, you receive it, right? But but he wants to sweep you into the middle of his like establishing of his kingdom. It's so beautiful. He loves us, he's so humble. So we can go from this very humble place and just not be enough and let the Holy Spirit be the leaven that can do what we can't do. It's a huge risk, right? Like you said with the guy with the genie, you're like, All right, let's pray, and boom, he was healed. And the faith that came from it. I mean, come on, anyway. Yeah, that place of poverty, I think, is so important. It just gives you permission to be you who's not enough. Isn't that great that you are not enough? Because the Haven Spirit will come and do be the true leaven, otherwise, you would be just uh we'd we'd get a kingdom of Emily or a kingdom of Mike.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Oh no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

They'll see your good works, Emily. And because they know you cannot do those things, they will give glory to God. That's Matthew 5. When he says, that's when you you set that light in the middle of the room, you don't put it under a bushel basket. They'll see your good works and give glory to God. Wow, God will get glorified because we're like, well, Emily can't do that, but she laid hands on that person and they were totally healed. God, you are amazing that you would love that person and love Emily so much that you would do this wonderful act of healing and liberation and faith with them both swept up in the mix of it all. It's just heaven. Yeah. Okay. That's all I was like to say.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Oh, yeah. I mean, it it I feel like JP2 in Veritish Splendor, he says, You are the glory of God. Like all mankind, you are the glory of God. And um that that's something I've been sitting with. I've been sending it to my friends. I'm like, hey, Monday morning reminder, you're the glory of God. Have a good day. Yes, good. So yeah, we we are all the glory of God. And wow, he just wants to do great things, not only for us, but through us. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 49:09

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Thank you so, so much, Mike.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Oh, so good to be here with you, Emily. I miss you. I know it's so nice to see you. We had some great laughs and some incredible prayer on our trip, didn't we?

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Oh my gosh, yes. I just feel so blessed to have just like an absolute powerhouse on this podcast, you know.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

Oh, that is good. And so you don't mind if I mention Shadow on the Water, do you?

SPEAKER_00 49:32

No, please, please do.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

Yeah, come check us out at shadowonthewater.com. ShadowonThewater.com. We have podcasts and we do Zoom prayer and pilgrimages, and yeah, just to bring the our mission is to bring the joy of the gospel, like everyone's mission. This is our mission. There's no more uh you know, looking at the world and thinking this is a sinking ship. No, no, no, no, no. We are on the cusp of the greatest season of the church ever. Joy of the gospel. It is time to smile and radiate the joy of Jesus as we just declare the gospel to the world. So we just invite you guys, come check us out and and I'll have that linked in the show notes.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Oh, you're the best. Thank you, Emily. Oh, I got you. Well, beautiful. Thank you so much again. And until next time, I hope you all have a blessed day.