Clare Hollander

Join Sondra & Jeni as they talk with Clare Hollander, the Central Youth Services Manager of the Kansas City Public Library. She shares how The Artist’s Way: a Spiritual Path to Higher Creativity, by Julia Cameron has impacted her.
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Presented by the Kansas City Public Library & Jewish Family Services of Greater Kansas City.

Transcript

Sondra Wallace 0:07

Hi everyone, and welcome to our podcast, Power of Words. Thanks for stopping by.

Jeni Starr 0:13

Hi, I'm Jeni Starr. My pronouns are she her, and I'm the Health and Wellness Specialist for the Kansas City Public Library.

Sondra Wallace 0:20

I'm Sondra Wallace. My pronouns are she her, and I'm the Director of Mental Health Programs at Jewish Family Services of Greater Kansas City. I'm glad to be back doing a program again with Jeni.

Jeni Starr 0:31

Aww, thanks, Sondra. Sondra and I have worked together on mental health programming for several years, and we're pleased to bring you our latest project where we talk with community members and connect stories through words that matter.

Sondra Wallace 0:43

We're excited to have our guests share a little bit about their mental health journeys and their love for Kansas City. We've asked each of our guests to share an example of how specific words have empowered, changed, encouraged, or strengthened their mental health and wellness.

Jeni Starr 0:58

We hope one or two of the words from our conversation today allow you to connect to words that matter to you.

Sondra Wallace 1:13

Hey, Jeni. How are you doing today?

Jeni Starr 1:15

I'm good, Sondra, how are you? This Monday?

Sondra Wallace 1:18

Hi. Yes, it is a Monday. Doing pretty well. I, I I understand that you were at a conference last week for some of the work that you do. Was it pretty good?

Jeni Starr 1:28

Yes, I was really fortunate. Last week I was in Atlanta, Georgia at the Society for Public Health Education Conference. Really exciting. I'm a health educator by training and...

Sondra Wallace 1:37

Mm-hmm.

Jeni Starr 1:38

...I got to meet my public health hero at the valet stand. Nice. She's like a rock star. Her name is Dr. Camara Jones. Look her up. Okay. She's amazing.

Sondra Wallace 1:49

Yeah. Okay. Write it down.

Jeni Starr 1:50

But I, and her expertise is teaching anti-racism education, but she's a physician and an epidemiologist. She's just amazing. She's such a rockstar. People were standing in line to take their picture with her...

Sondra Wallace 2:01

oh my gosh.

Jeni Starr 2:01

...after her program. But I, I am like too nervous to do that, so I didn't do it. But then I ran into her at the valet stand and I. Really made some...

Sondra Wallace 2:11

Yeah.

Jeni Starr 2:11

...silly, silly conversation with her, but...

Sondra Wallace 2:13

Oh my gosh....and too bad it wasn't the time to BeReal. Right? Like

Jeni Starr 2:18

Right then I could have said, Hey, I need to take my picture with you for this app. Yeah, it didn't make it to the BeReal app. Most my BeReal in Atlanta was like, well, one was in a session and. And one was...

Sondra Wallace 2:30

mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 2:30

...at dinner. But...

Sondra Wallace 2:31

Yeah.

Jeni Starr 2:32

...for those of you who don't know about BeReal, Sondra, do you wanna share what BeReal is?

Sondra Wallace 2:35

Oh yeah.

Jeni Starr 2:35

It's, it's our world now.

Sondra Wallace 2:36

It's, it is, it's just a, you know, another social media app that we all need on our devices. But yeah, I started using it about a year ago. Just my kids are over at college right now. And so I don't get to see them every day anymore. And so I just said, I'm just gonna join this so that I can just see your face every day. So at, at a particular time of the day, somebody or we all get the text at the same time that says it's time to be real. And so then you just snap a picture on your phone. And so then I just can always just. Kind of keep track of that opportunity to just bring a, that extra smile to the day when you see the people you care about. And Jeni, I'm thrilled that we follow each other too, because you know that opportunity to get to know each other a little bit better and, you know, enjoy...

Jeni Starr 3:21

Yes.

Sondra Wallace 3:22

...each other's, each other's journeys together. So

Jeni Starr 3:25

I am too. And on your BeReal this weekend, I noticed a certain basketball game was being watched.

Sondra Wallace 3:30

Oh, yes. Yes.

Jeni Starr 3:31

And it was so close, Sondra.

Sondra Wallace 3:35

Oh, I know.

Jeni Starr 3:35

It was so close.

Sondra Wallace 3:37

I know. And we, you know, we just gotta enjoy the, the ride that we had and, you know, be, we really are very grateful for as far as we got into the Elite Eight. But you know. It'll be next year.

Jeni Starr 3:50

Yeah.

Sondra Wallace 3:50

So if it's, you know, opportunity to build that resilience and build those you know, you know responses that help us have really strong mental health. Which is maybe a nice little segue into our, our guest, I think, I think sometimes sports is a space that really does build a lot of mental health skills for a lot of folks and just as the Power of Words, you know, one of the quotes from last weekend's game was, we can accomplish anything with people we love. And that was from a coach.

Jeni Starr 4:21

Oh, I love that.

Sondra Wallace 4:22

He just happens to be the coach that I follow in NCAA and I just thought, you know what? Those kids work hard for him'cause they know. He loves them.

Jeni Starr 4:32

So that's huge.

Sondra Wallace 4:33

Kind of like a perfect example of the power of words and, and what, what they can do for us.

Jeni Starr 4:38

Yes. That's so huge. Well, I'm, I'm so excited to introduce our guest today, who also I think really demonstrates what you're talking about with love.

Sondra Wallace 4:48

Mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 4:48

So our guest today is Clare Hollander and she is the Central Youth Services Manager And. If you have brought your children to the Central Library on the second floor, you may know Clare, she's an amazing youth librarian and talk about loving. She just, she loves people. It comes out of her pores. And so I'm so excited to have you today, Clare. Welcome.

Clare Hollander 5:11

Thank you, Jeni. I appreciate your kind words. It's very sweet.

Jeni Starr 5:16

Well, it's just really true. It's really true. I've known Clare since, gosh, I guess since I started at the library in 2019.

Clare Hollander 5:23

Mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 5:24

But can you tell us a little bit about how long you've been at the library and a little bit about what you do at the Library?

Clare Hollander 5:28

Sure. I'd be happy to. I was hired in 2006 as the youth services I, what was the title? Youth librarian and assistant branch manager at our North-East location. So I was doing programming for kids, programming for tweens, programming for teens, and then also, you know, helping with the day-to-day management of the branch. Then I did that for about two and a half years and transferred over here and lost the management piece of it, thankfully. And I just was a librarian. Just a librarian, just working with kids. I was so thrilled to come over here because this floor is dedicated to youth only and it's really my strength, my forte, my love. I do love adults. I love the North-East, I love the people in the North-East but a lot of times that job, my duties, I had to deal more with adults than with kids. And so being over here has been really great. So since 2008 I've been working here and slowly making my way up the ladder at the library and, now I'm the manager and I have two full-time librarians who help me. I still do programming, as you mentioned, the storytimes, and then, you know, one-offs here and there. So.

Jeni Starr 6:45

Yes. And one of my favorite things ever happened during the early stages of the pandemic when we were kind of home. Clare would do these really cool science things on our YouTube channel. Please go look at this, everyone. If you're having a bad day, there is a video about an ant farm and it's Clare, and she's putting the ants in the ant farm. And, you know, ants do what ants wanna do. And so it's just the most magical, fun, happy video. All the ants made it in, I think.

Clare Hollander 7:16

Yeah, that was really fun. It was fun doing those experiments during the pandemic and sort of feeling kind of connected to people maybe.

Jeni Starr 7:25

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just remember, I, I, I've watched it so many times, Clare, because I truly have used it as a thing to help brighten my day when I'm like, just need something happy. So thank you so much for that.

Clare Hollander 7:37

Oh, you're welcome. Thank you.

Jeni Starr 7:38

Yes. So, do you wanna tell us a little bit about the words that you're sharing with us today?

Clare Hollander 7:44

Sure. I was trying to find the source of the quote and the quote is,"words were invented by the heart to rid itself of what it no longer needs."

Sondra Wallace 7:53

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 7:54

And how that was serving me at the time, you know, after I graduated from college and those first five or six, 10 years, whatever, up until my thirties was I had developed a writing practice. To help with my mental health process. And that was kind of the directive that I used to help clear the clutter out of my mind. And so like I was kind of interpreting it in the beginning. You know, I, I don't wanna offend anybody here, but I, I would say it's a general. It was definitely true for me in my twenties. High anxiety coming outta college. What am I supposed to do? A lot of pressure, a lot of stress that I, you know, I did all the things you're supposed to do and in terms of exercise and all those things, but also the writing became part of my mental health practice that I have maintained all these years.

Jeni Starr 8:49

Wow.

Clare Hollander 8:50

And then fast forward into the early nineties when I discovered this book by Julia Cameron called"The Artist's Way". And at that time I had been pursuing a path personally where I wanted to be a writer.

Sondra Wallace 9:04

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 9:05

And I was doing writing and I was in a writing. A writer's group. And when this book was published somebody got a hold of it and said,"Hey, let's do this." Actually the author calls it like recovery from creative writer's block. And she uses a lot of language that you're gonna find, like in the recovery literature. Like she even quotes the big book and Alcoholics Anonymous and she's coming from a background where she had gone through a 12 step program, and so she sort of makes this book, sort of a 12 step program week by week and every week you're recovering a different sense. You know, like for instance, the first week is recovering a sense of safety and that, you know, you're blocked because there's some kind of fear there. And then, you know, it's pretty fascinating. Yeah. Recovering a sense of identity.

Sondra Wallace 9:56

Really fascinating. But this is so fascinating to me to think about that idea of the structure that she used for this book.

Clare Hollander 10:06

Mm-Hmm.

Sondra Wallace 10:06

I am very intrigued. Pretty, yeah. It's cool.

Clare Hollander 10:09

It's pretty fascinating. Yeah. And it was really cool. I wanted to thank you, Jeni, because this has been you know, how you do things like, obviously I did not become a writer, but this book really informed a lot of the the way I am today and, helped me to overcome the blocks that I was experiencing in my life overall. Like, you know, adults don't play ukulele, you know those kinds of things that, you know I was, one of the things is you're, you're internal critic. You know that the reason you're blocked is because you're so you're judging yourself. So being able to go through and realize. You know that I was thwarting myself with my own internal dialogue. It was super helpful and the group fell apart. I was talking to a friend yesterday telling her I was gonna be doing this, and she's like,"oh my God. When I got to week four, I was like, to hell with this."

Jeni Starr 11:08

Too much. Too much.

Clare Hollander 11:09

That's where the group fell apart actually.

Sondra Wallace 11:12

Yeah.

Clare Hollander 11:12

And week four, the recovery is and I knew, it was so funny when she said I knew what she was gonna say in recovering a sense of integrity. The big assignment for that week. You can't read anything. You can't. You cannot do any other media, no TV. And this was of course in the nineties. So what can you imagine today telling people? Yeah, put your phone.

Jeni Starr 11:37

Oh my.

Clare Hollander 11:37

Yeah, no. So. Just not you, you are the creator of content this week. You are the person, like what do you do when you're not taking in other people's stuff?

Sondra Wallace 11:49

Wow.

Clare Hollander 11:50

The whole, yeah. Pretty powerful. And and a lot of people, like in my writers group, they, they were like, I can't do it. So I did do it and I was gonna go look for my notebook that I used as a workbook through this. Whole process, you know, and getting ready for this conversation. But I gotta tell you, I didn't want to go down that I, I thought it would take a lot of time.

Sondra Wallace 12:11

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 12:12

I know it'll take a lot of time. And I wanna do it when I have time to, you know.

Sondra Wallace 12:16

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 12:16

And this, I had so many things to do that.

Jeni Starr 12:19

Yeah. Well, that's so fascinating to think about how what we take in impacts us.

Clare Hollander 12:27

Right?

Jeni Starr 12:27

And what our thoughts might be if we didn't take anything outside in.

Clare Hollander 12:32

It really is.

Jeni Starr 12:33

Yeah.

Clare Hollander 12:33

And like if I were to do it today, like there are podcasts I listen to all the time. There's like, you know, in different times of the day I take in different types of media. You know, like in the morning, I, my goal is to laugh out loud as much as possible every day.

Sondra Wallace 12:48

I love that.

Clare Hollander 12:49

I mean, I know there's something physiological going on there. So I, I always watch a Seinfeld episode while I'm eating my breakfast.

Sondra Wallace 12:58

Oh.

Clare Hollander 12:58

And and I'm guaranteed, well, Seinfeld or office or something. I know it's gonna make me laugh out loud. Mm-Hmm. And it's just anyway, if I

Sondra Wallace 13:07

That's so cool.

Clare Hollander 13:08

Yeah. And trying to make yourself laugh out loud. You know, we're so used to just consume, consume, consume.

Sondra Wallace 13:13

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 13:13

So, Julia Cameron's concept in this chapter is to, you know. Create, create, create, you know?

Sondra Wallace 13:20

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 13:20

Even if you're painting a shelf of a bookcase or Mm-Hmm. Knitting or whatever. Discover what that is. So, so anyway.

Sondra Wallace 13:30

It'd be interesting so she would ask for you to do it for a full week. Is that what you're saying?

Clare Hollander 13:36

Right? Every week there was like a different goal that you were trying to accomplish in there and throughout the whole thing. This is where I was going with this, is the, morning pages and you have to write three pages every morning. And you, you develop this practice.

Sondra Wallace 13:52

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 13:52

You develop this habit. And it was what I was already doing.

Sondra Wallace 13:56

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 13:56

But I didn't call it that. And so that writing practice I had started when I came outta college. I then turned it into the morning pages and that was a constant throughout her. Throughout the book, you know, you would

Sondra Wallace 14:09

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 14:10

Try and do it every single day. And, you know, adding those up over time it really improved my writing too, even though I was writing crap, you know?

Sondra Wallace 14:19

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 14:19

And there was a point in time, you know, it would be like, I. Get to the bottom of the page. Get to the bottom of the page.

Sondra Wallace 14:25

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 14:25

Get to and other times I would be like, ah, I would have a breakthrough halfway through the, the third page.

Sondra Wallace 14:32

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 14:32

And then I would keep going because

Sondra Wallace 14:34

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 14:34

Really what was bothering me was, you know, something blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, I have come to learn and. And be able to articulate that. I really don't know what I'm feeling until I write it down.

Sondra Wallace 14:48

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 14:48

Wow. And yeah, I, I find it really helps me. So anyway.

Jeni Starr 14:55

Yeah. It sounds like just kind of unpacking your thoughts helps you get to the current root of what is going on, right?

Clare Hollander 15:02

Yeah. And, and in this book too, this is for all kinds of artists and she's a filmmaker, she's a director, she's works with people in LA. They're, they weren't necessarily writers and like, I'm a, I'm a visual artist too. Something that came out of my work with this book recognizing that and understanding, but the writing still informed my photography, you know, it's still just getting the stuff out. Then I could be free to see what I'm gonna see when I pull up my camera and aim at something.

Sondra Wallace 15:33

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 15:33

And that was her whole thing. You, you can't really sit down and create any kind of art if you're worried about, you know, how am I gonna pay for the carburetor? Just all that mundane stuff that really clutters up your brain and blocks you from truly immersing yourself in the work, whatever the work may be.

Sondra Wallace 15:53

Mm-Hmm. I'm really Clare, I wrote down one of the things that you said that you know, you really can find out how you are feeling once you write it down. Was that an early on discovery for you?

Clare Hollander 16:06

Yes.

Sondra Wallace 16:06

Like the power of that, or is that more recent?

Clare Hollander 16:11

Yeah, I articulated it to a group of kids before the pandemic. And you know, it's interesting you ask that. It's like, yes, I knew that. I'm not sure if I always would've said it that way.

Sondra Wallace 16:22

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 16:22

And then when I was saying it and, and it was, you know, a, a field trip kind of situation and the teacher had given them some writing thing and I don't know, we were talking about writing prompts and that's when it, I, you know, outed myself as a, I don't know what I'm feeling unless I write it down.

Sondra Wallace 16:40

Yeah.

Clare Hollander 16:40

Julia Cameron definitely helped me with a lot of that kind of thing.

Sondra Wallace 16:44

And I was gonna say that's so powerful like you were saying that you're sharing that with the kids and when you mentioned at the very beginning of the podcast that you have an entire floor at the Library that's dedicated to youth and to kids and what an incredible message that sends to the community, right? Yeah. That, that we're here for you and this is a really safe place. They see you, they recognize you and, and how powerful that is for the community, right? Like these aren't kids that are related to you or that you even have in your classroom, but they can absolutely count on you and know that you're a stable adult for them. It's incredible.

Clare Hollander 17:23

Right? Well, all the youth people, that is a big part of our work is yeah, it's pretty neat. A big part of youth librarianship in general and to give that to the community.

Sondra Wallace 17:34

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 17:34

Is pretty huge.

Jeni Starr 17:36

Yeah. Well, and Clare, when you're talking about how you said,"I don't know what my feelings are unless I ride them out." I'm thinking of all the times I've tried to figure out what I'm feeling or I've asked maybe someone else in my life. What are your feelings about this?

Clare Hollander 17:51

Mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 17:52

And I often get like, I'm not sure. I don't know. You know, so I love that this is a cool tool that anybody could try.

Clare Hollander 17:59

Yeah.

Jeni Starr 18:00

To kind of figure out and put their finger on what the feelings are. Really powerful.

Clare Hollander 18:05

I use those you know, the kind of, they're like the legal pads, but they're not legal length. They're just a regular.

Sondra Wallace 18:11

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 18:12

And I buy a three pack of those and, you know I started saving them, but really Cameron's like, just throw'em away. Burn'em. You know, you might wanna read'em, but really when you read'em, when I read'em. There's not a whole lot there that's like, oh, there's my next screenplay or whatever, you know? But it is kind of cool to have a little bit of a record even if you never look back on it. But the whole point being, this isn't for anybody else but your future self if you choose to share it with your future self. But just in terms of like. Freeing yourself from like, what if somebody reads this kind of thing?

Jeni Starr 18:49

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 18:49

You know?

Jeni Starr 18:50

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 18:50

So get all the bile out and all the stuff that you don't want to even give to your most favorite person that loves you no matter what.

Jeni Starr 18:58

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 18:58

There's still stuff sometimes. Yeah. Anyway.

Jeni Starr 19:03

Yeah. That makes so much sense. Speaking for myself, I've definitely had feelings that I wouldn't necessarily want made public. So like to keep in the privacy of my own mind, but it's hard to get them out. So writing's a great tool for that. And then just knowing that that's just for me and I may or may not throw it away or...

Clare Hollander 19:20

Right. And then getting back to that quote, invented by the heart to rid itself of what it no longer needs. Whether it's good or bad, I don't need to hang onto it. Right? And so once I've written it down then it's not it's not governing me, I guess is...

Sondra Wallace 19:37

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 19:37

Especially for the bad stuff, you know, or the stuff that's unproductive, I, I shouldn't call it bad, but the things that are gonna get in the way of, I don't know. I was gonna say mental health. That wasn't really what I meant though. But, you know, the things that'll lead to anxiety and depression.

Sondra Wallace 19:52

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 19:52

And, and those things that you might ruminate about. Once you get'em down, then you don't have to.

Sondra Wallace 19:57

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 19:58

And sometimes when you read back, for me anyway, it such a big deal. There was so much drama around it. And then when I read back I'm like, oh my God, I'm glad I let that go. Wow. You know, some of it's just that I think we do, I don't know, for me anyway, I am a kind of a dramatic person, you know?

Jeni Starr 20:16

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 20:16

And I, and I over dramatize things sometimes.

Sondra Wallace 20:21

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 20:21

So...

Sondra Wallace 20:22

That's great.

Clare Hollander 20:23

...it does help to, yeah. Yeah.

Sondra Wallace 20:25

Well, and I think about journaling and you know, that there, because I think that that's kind of one of the, the pieces that we started with Or just writing that you were just writing. Right? And I think we all have, like I think about when I do my journaling, I, I. I really, I, so that quote's gonna get typed and put on the front of my notebook because that's not the, if you will, the reason why I've used journaling for, to strengthen my mental health. But maybe I should be, I mean, there's no right or wrong way to do it. Right?

Clare Hollander 20:56

Right.

Sondra Wallace 20:56

So that's a piece that I love that, thank you for sharing that. Wonderful. Approach to, to using...

Clare Hollander 21:02

Yeah. Absolutely.

Sondra Wallace 21:03

...words. Yeah. That's really great.

Jeni Starr 21:06

Yeah. We have a, we had a mindful journaling class at the library, gosh, a few months ago and Nicoya Helm, who's from here in Kansas City, led that class. And so it was a lot of that similar thing. We did a meditation and then she would give us a prompt and then we would write, and it was writing for ourselves, not for other people. And similar to you, Clare, I had the experience of like, I remember being really mad about something when I wrote. The first day and then next week when we came back to the class, I looked at it and I thought, I haven't thought about that since I wrote it down. You know, I was so mad about it and it was gonna ruin my whole day. And then writing it, I was able to just let it go.

Clare Hollander 21:42

Right.

Jeni Starr 21:42

And I never thought about it again.

Clare Hollander 21:44

Right.

Jeni Starr 21:44

So it did free me up to have space for other thoughts and other

Sondra Wallace 21:48

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 21:49

Right. Yeah. And yeah, and just, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, it was fun going back through this book. I, I did find a bunch of quotes and stuff, so I'm glad we have it in the library, but people listening to this might wanna get their own just so they can highlight and all the dog ear and all those things you don't want to do to a library book.

Jeni Starr 22:11

Oh, right. Don't do that folks. Is it kind of in a, is it, is it a workbook style where you have places to write?

Clare Hollander 22:19

It is. She does, like, at the end of every chapter, she will give you questions, or from time to time, there will be a form where I'm trying to find one here, where you will you will, like, here's the workaholism quiz. I, and then there's like 16 questions. I work outside of office hours, seldom, often, never.

Sondra Wallace 22:39

Mm-hmm.

Clare Hollander 22:39

Now you could do that in your own. You know, notebook or you would just circle each one of those that throughout that whole quiz. Is seldom, often never. And then at the end you count'em up and maybe you're a workaholic.

Sondra Wallace 22:57

Maybe.

Clare Hollander 22:58

It's not my problem.

Sondra Wallace 23:02

It sounds like one of those quizzes, did you all do them like in the"sixteen" magazine or in the teen magazine?

Jeni Starr 23:07

Oh yes. Oh yes.

Clare Hollander 23:09

But there were some in here that are like, fill out the blank She'll, well, like in recovering a sense of compassion, the, the tasks at the end, they're all listed out. So you wouldn't write them in the book.

Sondra Wallace 23:21

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 23:21

And then but there are some that do have, you know, name your goal. I am, I. Whatever that goal would be, you would write it in here. So it's sort of work booky. I do know that after this book was published, oh, here's one recovering a sense of connection and the exercise is called archeology. As a kid, I missed the chance to. Blank.

Sondra Wallace 23:45

Hmm.

Clare Hollander 23:45

As a kid I lacked blank. As a kid I could have used blank. And it goes through the whole thing. And I think part of her putting that in there like that too, I think part of some of these exercises is don't think too much about it.

Sondra Wallace 24:00

Hmm.

Clare Hollander 24:00

Like, just like whatever comes off the top of your head. Just pay attention to that and just, you know, again. Don't ruminate on it, just keep, keep moving.

Sondra Wallace 24:11

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 24:11

So yeah, there's a lot of cool exercises in here for all kinds of creative stuff to, anyway.

Jeni Starr 24:20

Yeah. I love that this book is about unlocking creativity and. It's not a quote unquote mental health book. Right? But it's really applying some strong mental health principles.

Sondra Wallace 24:34

Mm-hmm.

Clare Hollander 24:34

It really is. Mm-Hmm. And she relies on you know, master thinkers from I. You know, poetry philosophy, you know, Rumi's gonna be in there somewhere I just know it. All the great thinkers in, in western and eastern civilization, sorta of kind of, and Elisabeth Kübler-Ross is in here and just all kinds of different people, poets. So I don't know how she wrote this as far as like she has these quotes and peppers them in the margins. You know, just a lot of really trust in yourself. Your perceptions are often far more accurate than you're willing to believe. Those kinds of things, and it fit right into the context of what she was talking about in that moment. So...

Sondra Wallace 25:19

mm-hmm.

Clare Hollander 25:19

...it's kind of nice.

Sondra Wallace 25:21

Wow.

Jeni Starr 25:21

Yeah.

Sondra Wallace 25:23

It's like, I'm gonna be stopping on my way home this afternoon at a bookstore to find that.

Jeni Starr 25:27

No, I was just saying like, I really need this book, Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah. For a lot of reasons. Yeah. So cool.

Sondra Wallace 25:35

Yeah, and I'm fascinated too, Clare, with what you were saying, like you were doing a book club, if you will, and, and it almost sounds like you were all safe and okay for a little bit, and then when it got a little bit unsafe or like our vulnerabilities were gonna be...

Clare Hollander 25:50

Yeah.

Sondra Wallace 25:51

...really checked. Is when people weren't able to stay connected through the book, which is really interesting.

Clare Hollander 25:57

It was really fascinating. And you know, I mean that was great to talk. I mean, we were writers, we always were getting together. We talked about our work, each other's work, other people's work. We are reading all the time. That's what writers do they probably read more than they write?

Sondra Wallace 26:12

Mm-Hmm. Yep.

Clare Hollander 26:13

And they were like, I'm out. So funny. And that my one friend remembered that, you know, it's like, yeah, I kept going in the book, but and I did do that. I remember that, that week. And how it really was it was like a totally different world. So, you know, I went on a trip last summer. I left my Kindle on the first leg of the trip. And when I got to my destination I was like we have to stop at Walmart. I need a new Kindle. Like we we're not, I can't even go to bed tonight without my Kindle. Wow. Yeah. So it was definitely an exercise in deprivation, you know?

Sondra Wallace 27:01

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 27:01

I'm sure there's, you know, some eastern meditation process that was happening in my brain there that

Sondra Wallace 27:08

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 27:08

Just denying myself this one thing freed me to, you know, figure out other things. I don't know. I dunno.

Sondra Wallace 27:16

Yeah.

Jeni Starr 27:18

Yeah. That's really interesting.

Sondra Wallace 27:20

Like a great challenge that is the word great for so many reasons.

Jeni Starr 27:24

Yeah.

Clare Hollander 27:24

Especially these days. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it would be so hard to block all those apps and shut stuff down, but

Sondra Wallace 27:33

Yeah.

Jeni Starr 27:34

Yeah. It would be, I wonder though, if you did it for a week now, I'm, I'm not saying I'm going to do this. I'm not committing right now to doing it.

Sondra Wallace 27:40

Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 27:41

But I'm intrigued by the idea because I think then maybe when you go back to. Not normal, but go back to taking things. And again, does it make you more intentional about

Clare Hollander 27:53

Right.

Jeni Starr 27:53

What you mm-Hmm. Absorb or not?

Clare Hollander 27:56

Right. And it does actually. I guess she taught this before she published the book, this was a class that she did in LA with people who were trying to free and, and she writes about how angry her students would be at this, that they absolutely cannot...

Sondra Wallace 28:14

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 28:14

...do this so

Sondra Wallace 28:16

Yeah. Well, and maybe we take it in baby, you know, smaller steps. We just do it for a day.

Clare Hollander 28:22

Right.

Sondra Wallace 28:22

Like, I think, oh, okay. Maybe a day I. And then the next month you could stretch it to two days or something.

Clare Hollander 28:28

Yeah.

Sondra Wallace 28:29

Of course then I'll manipulate it though and do it in a certain, on a certain day when life is a little bit easier. Right?

Jeni Starr 28:36

Right.

Sondra Wallace 28:36

Like,

Clare Hollander 28:37

Right.

Sondra Wallace 28:37

How would you do it on a workday, you know?

Clare Hollander 28:39

Right. I mean, yeah.

Sondra Wallace 28:40

And, you know, outside of basketball season and you know what I mean?

Jeni Starr 28:44

Yeah. Well I know my husband and I went to Glacier National Park a few years ago, and the lodge we stayed in had no televisions and we really did not have internet.

Sondra Wallace 28:53

Mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 28:53

And of course we're in the most beautiful nature I could ever imagine being in

Sondra Wallace 28:58

Mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 28:59

So it wasn't like we intentionally were cutting ourselves off, but we kind of were for a few days.

Sondra Wallace 29:04

Mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 29:04

Yeah.

Jeni Starr 29:04

And it was really restorative.

Clare Hollander 29:06

Mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 29:06

I feel like and we still say it's our, it was our favorite vacation we ever took.

Sondra Wallace 29:11

Yeah.

Jeni Starr 29:11

And it forced us also to just like talk to people.

Clare Hollander 29:13

Right.

Sondra Wallace 29:14

Mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 29:14

You know, that we met in the lodge.

Sondra Wallace 29:16

Right.

Jeni Starr 29:17

You know, instead of just being like. That social contract, if we don't talk to people in public you know, we talk to each other and interact in a different way. So yeah, I can, I think I've done a mini version of it, but not intentionally.

Sondra Wallace 29:29

Yeah, that's great.

Jeni Starr 29:31

So that's fascinating.

Sondra Wallace 29:33

Yeah. Very cool.

Jeni Starr 29:34

As we wrap things up, Clare, we wanna thank you for being here. But we ask all of our guests as of today, right now, what's your favorite word?

Clare Hollander 29:46

Well the first word that came to mind was kindness. So if, if I had to think about it right then and there.

Sondra Wallace 29:54

Mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 29:54

Okay. Perfect, perfect. And are there any other resources or connections in the community that you want our listeners to know about?

Clare Hollander 30:03

I know you asked me for this and I, I didn't really come up with anything and I apologize. You know, getting out in nature is a huge piece of my mental health practice. And AllTrails is an app that can help you find...

Sondra Wallace 30:20

Mm-hmm.

Clare Hollander 30:21

...places to go walking. I know there's also like a hiking group that's on Facebook that I know a few people that have joined that and have reported back to me that it's been really nice for them to help them to meet people in the community who are also interested. Like last, this past weekend, they met up at the Botanical Gardens in Overland Park. So, that AllTrails app is really helpful to find things near you. And then also you'll find people on there who use it as a social piece. Like they'll talk about the trail, their experience on the trail. So for people who wanna get outside but don't know where to go, that's a really great place to start.

Jeni Starr 31:03

That is a really good app. And the other thing I like about that, just in thinking like if you have some mobility issues

Clare Hollander 31:10

Mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 31:10

The app does a really good job of telling you like how long it is, what the elevation is, if it's if it's wheelchair accessible, things like that.

Clare Hollander 31:18

Right, easy, hard too. Yeah. If you're gonna...

Jeni Starr 31:21

mm-Hmm.

Clare Hollander 31:21

...need hiking boots'cause the rocks are sharp or whatever. Yeah, getting outside I think is super important.

Jeni Starr 31:29

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, Clare, you have just been the most wonderful guest.

Clare Hollander 31:34

Oh, thank you.

Jeni Starr 31:34

And I knew you would be, and I'm so happy that you joined us today.

Clare Hollander 31:38

Thank you.

Jeni Starr 31:38

And we will make sure to share some of these resources in the show notes. And I, I'm gonna put the ant video in. Because it makes me so happy.

Clare Hollander 31:45

It's, you know, I wanna, that was something I wanted to say too, and I don't know if you wanna. Put this, I mean, we've already said our goodbyes, but the thing about Julia Cameron, that helped me,'cause I thought I had to be an adult. She helped me to realize that, you know, play is so important.

Sondra Wallace 32:02

Mm-Hmm.

Jeni Starr 32:03

Yes.

Clare Hollander 32:03

And, and that's what I was trying to do in those videos too, and I got the nicest comment from. One of the librarians here, she sent me a text that she had shared my work with her nephew and that what was really helpful to them and her nephew's mother is a engineer or something that demonstrating to the kids that it's okay to make a mistake that you know. That really it's more about the process than the product. That was something I really learned from Julia Cameron too. You asked me if I had anything more to add and...

Sondra Wallace 32:36

I love it.

Jeni Starr 32:36

Well, that's okay that it came. Now that's perfect timing and that's so true. That's just true. Yeah.

Clare Hollander 32:42

And it doesn't have to be perfect. And yeah, if the ants all of a sudden I'm all itchy again.

Jeni Starr 32:48

Sorry. But yeah. And like science really does teach you the most of the time, experiments fail. Right. Most of the time, but they get you one step closer to the time it might work, you know?

Clare Hollander 33:01

Exactly.

Jeni Starr 33:02

So, yeah, so I love that. Have fun. Thanks so much for adding that. No, I'm glad we have, I'm glad you shared that. Okay, well Sondra, you wanna take it?

Sondra Wallace 33:12

Yes, sure. So as Jeni said, we have the resources available at the Kansas City Library. You can check things out at kclibrary.org and the jfskc.org website for additional programming and the rest of our shows. And until next time. We challenge you to choose words that matter. Thanks for joining us.

Jeni Starr 33:37

Thank you for listening, and we hope you enjoyed this episode of Power of Words.

Sondra Wallace 33:42

This episode is produced by the Kansas City Public Library and Jewish Family Services of Greater. Kansas City with support from AmeriCorps.

Jeni Starr 33:50

We encourage you to explore our health resources and services available in the show notes.

Sondra Wallace 33:55

And follow or subscribe for new episodes wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.