SAM SALTER: The life of a dancer, the clarity of being single and not looking at screen time

You may have spotted Sam Salter on the cover of Attitude Magazine, seen him starring in Swan Lake, or admired his killer style online. Sam has a strong social media following and continues to collaborate with some of the world's biggest fashion brands. A professionally trained dancer having attended world-famous Sylvia Young Theatre School, he's now got his sights set on acting. In this episode we reflect on Sam's career and life experiences so far. We discuss the challenges Sam's faced with romantic relationships, how frustrating it can be when people pigeon-hole you career-wise, and contrary to what you might think, how he can be highly critical of himself.  

Chapters

• 0:48 Dance training
• 2:38 Sylvia Young Theatre School
• 4:54 Not wanting to be gay as a child
• 8:13 Training and diet
• 11:00 Being a 'chubby' kid
• 13:50 Routine when travelling
• 16:29 Becoming an actor
• 19:46 Not letting people pigeon-hole you
• 23:12 Boys
• 28:50 Journey with sober periods and alcohol
• 33:08 Don't look at screen time
• 35:29 Do likes equal happy?
• 36:55 Lessons from your twenties

Transcript

JON DEAN: 00:02 This week I'm joined by Sam Salter. He's collaborated with some

of the fashion world's biggest brands. Appeared on the front

cover of Attitude Magazine multiple times and starred in Swan

Lake, the Nutcracker to name just a few. Alright, Sam Salter.

Let's have it all out. Okay. So Sam, first I want to talk about

dancing, which I suspect is, could you say your main thing?

SAM SALTER: 00:31 It's definitely the thing I'm most passionate about. Yeah,

JON DEAN: 00:34 Okay.

SAM SALTER: 00:35 It's not my main job these days. Yeah, yeah. It's not my main

thing anymore. I've done so much of it in my life and career,

especially at the beginning it was just dancing, but now I'm kind

of venturing into other avenues.

JON DEAN: 00:48 You are a dancer from a very young age and you like this is

something that you trained in, or is it very much something that

you've and then got jobs off?

SAM SALTER: 00:57 Yeah, I was trained, so

01:00 I still remember the first dance class I ever took. I just absolutely

fell in love with it, and I knew age eight. I was like, this is it. I'm

doing this. And yeah, it was really cool actually to have that at

such a young age. But yeah, I was just completely obsessed

because before I was a competitive horse rider. Oh really? So I

trained every night. My mom trained me and my sister, and we

competed all weekend and all kind of school holidays would be

various places in the country. And then I kind of found the love

of dance and I had to decide between the two. But horse riding, it

was never going to be a full career for me.

JON DEAN: 01:40 So something I think is really cool about the fact that you've said

that you loved dance as soon as you did it is that when I did

dance at, when the boys have to do dance back in GCSE or even

below at 13 or something, I really wanted to do it. And I felt so

much embarrassment about dancing in front of the other boys,

and the boys would take the piss out of the teacher. And did you

have any sort of sense of embarrassment or not wanting to be

seen to dance? Or was it just complete confidence in knowing

that you loved it and wanting to do it?

SAM SALTER: 02:12 Well, I kept it a secret at the beginning, but I was really lucky. I

got into a theatre school in London. So when I was 13, I moved

to a theatre school. So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday was

academics, Thursday, Friday dancing, singing, acting all day

long. It was amazing. I was really lucky that I only had one term

in my secondary school where I hid it, didn't tell anyone about it.

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 2 of 18

And then luckily I got into Sylvia Young for the second term of

year seven, and then so lucky to be there. It was the best years of

my life actually. Yeah, really, really was. Because it was a

school for theatre and you were allowed to go out on work.

There were kids in my class that were filming movies. Kids

would leave maths early to go and do the Western End Show. It

was the coolest environment.

JON DEAN: 03:00 Yeah, that sounds so fun.

SAM SALTER: 03:01 It really was.

JON DEAN: 03:02 So when you were hiding it before, what does that look like?

Does that mean that you were doing dancing in your bedroom or

was your mom taking you to separate classes without telling

friends at school? What does hiding it mean?

SAM SALTER: 03:16 I just went to a dance school in Tum Bridge and yeah, my school

was in Tumblr Wells. I was the only boy in the class. There was

no way of it getting out. I wasn't worried about that, but I just

remember at school, secondary school for that first term. Yeah.

Never, ever talking about it. And then when we had the kind of

meeting at the beginning of the day when I was about to leave

and the teacher said, Sam's going to the theatre school in

London. And I was like, she said it. Damn it. I was so annoyed.

JON DEAN: 03:48 But were you low key? That's really cool.

SAM SALTER: 03:50 No, I was mortified. I was like, oh no, why did she tell

JON DEAN: 03:53 Them? But everyone's heard of Sylvia Young. That is a cool

accolade.

SAM SALTER: 03:57 Yeah, I mean, but as a 13-year-old that wants to protect himself,

I was like, ah.

JON DEAN: 04:04 Is it what you expect? So if you go to Sylvia Young, is it very

much like people dancing in the halls, like fame, people

stretching, singing, and Yes. Is it just the cliche it it's going

SAM SALTER: 04:13 To be. It really was. Yeah. Big personalities.

JON DEAN: 04:17 Yeah. So you made some really good friends out

SAM SALTER: 04:18 Of it. I'm meeting them all tomorrow. We're going on a stag do.

Oh, great. So we've stayed really tight about seven of us. So

yeah, it's going to be quite chaotic, like lots of singing and

dancing, but a lot of them don't do it as a profession anymore.

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 3 of 18

And I still do. So I kind of keep it quite low key. But they love it.

They're like dancing on tables and stuff.

JON DEAN: 04:35 Yeah.

SAM SALTER: 04:36 Oh, that's harmonies.

JON DEAN: 04:38 And in terms of being gay and discovering your sexuality and

kissing boys and that sort of thing, from a young age, was it just

completely accepted and you felt really safe to be yourself? Or

was it still a bit of a journey going through even Sylvia Young?

SAM SALTER: 04:54 Definitely still a journey for me. I didn't want to be gay. I really

didn't. And also going to a theatre school, I almost tried really

hard not to be gay because it's the perfect kind of place to come

out. Very accepting queer space. But yeah, I really struggled in

my teens coming out. I didn't want to be gay. I was a very

sensitive kid. I was very shy. I'd cry all the time. I'm not sure

why. But I always get, I was very sensitive and had a very camp

voice. And I remember I'd pick up the home phone and the

person would be like, hello Anna. And I'd be like, it's Sam.

JON DEAN: 05:38 Have you got a Cy app? Yeah. Yeah.

SAM SALTER: 05:41 So yeah, I tried to really stay away from that kind of life for a

while. Yeah, it was definitely a journey. I remember my friends

being like, oh, because I kissed the boy or whatever, you must be

bi, you must be gay. And I was like, fine, fine. I'll just be bi. I

felt like I had to say I was something.

JON DEAN: 05:59 Do you think that you've got anything that sticks out or

something where you were really pretending to not be gay? Or

were you dating girls at Sylvia Young or anything like that?

SAM SALTER: 06:10 I had a girlfriend. Yeah, for a year or two I think. I remember

watching gay porn for the first time and being like, what am I

doing? I didn't know that world existed until I opened it up and I

was like, this is so wrong. But it sounds so cliche, but it really

was it like, what am I doing? What is this?

JON DEAN: 06:38 Yeah. Do you know what it is? It's always the underwear aisle in

the supermarket. The bulges on the Calvin Kleins and things.

SAM SALTER: 06:44 Right.

JON DEAN: 06:45 Did you not get that?

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 4 of 18

SAM SALTER: 06:46 That I don't remember that specifically. But then also high

school musical, like Zach Efron was such a hunk, wasn't he? I

was like, no, it's Vanessa. It's Vanessa.

JON DEAN: 06:57 Well, I would hope that it's, when you said that you were scared

to dance and be known to be dancing between the ages of eight

till 13, I would hope that's different now. And dancing maybe is

a cool thing for young boys to be doing regardless of whether

they're gay or straight. But you are in the dance world, so you

could probably answer that question.

SAM SALTER: 07:19 They still have problems really. Especially the young boys and I

teach all over the country up north, and it's still quite sad for

them. They do get bullied still,

JON DEAN: 07:30 Really. And who is it doing the bullying? Is it just lads that don't,

SAM SALTER: 07:35 Kids can be so mean that age of 10 to 14, maybe even a little bit

older. But I tend to see that age, they're learning, they're growing

up, they get insecurities, they're learning about all these things.

And yeah, I just think kids don't have that filter. They don't know

how to, they're yet to learn. But you'd hope with all the TV

programmes, the movies, the gay queer love stories and that

people would start to get used to it. And I think there has been a

shift, but I don't think it's fixed at all. I think there's a lot of

JON DEAN: 08:12 Room grow. Yeah. So you're in great shape.

SAM SALTER: 08:16 Thanks.

JON DEAN: 08:16 And is this, well, it's hard not to say that you are in great shape if

you look at your social media or any of your dancing videos and

stuff like that. And I know that staying in good shape is really

important for a lot of gay guys. It's really gyming and being fit

and active and things like that. Would you say that it's mostly

down to dance?

SAM SALTER: 08:36 I do go to the gym most days actually. Yeah, I do. I do weights. I

mean, yeah, teaching really helps with cardio. I don't tend to do

loads of cardio. It depends on my schedule. If I'm dancing a lot

in a show, for instance, be really trim and I won't need to do any

cardio, but I do like to do weights. But also I really like going

every morning for the heads and turn off my phone. And it's kind

of like a habit now. I've been doing it for quite a long time.

JON DEAN: 09:08 And would you say that you're very strict with diet and do you

think a lot about what you

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 5 of 18

SAM SALTER: 09:11 Eat? No, I'm terrible actually. Oh really? Yeah. That's probably

why I gym more because I need to balance it. My diet, I'm a real

sugar lover at night.

09:23 So in the daytime I'm super healthy, very clean. And then at

night I'm still trying to navigate my diet actually, because I think

sometimes I'm going to be really honest, I think I can under eat

in the day. I walk a lot as well. I must say that I walk loads

maybe like an hour or two a day. It could even be more. I'm

always walking to the next place I need to be if I can and I have

time. But so that's a really great form of really easy cardio

actually. But I think sometimes with my busy schedule I can

forget to, not forget to eat but eat less. So at night I'll have a huge

dinner and then I'll get a big sugar craving very easily. Can have

a tub of ice cream if I'm not really

JON DEAN: 10:08 Just at home, just chilling out

SAM SALTER: 10:09 Very easy. I don't do these fitness apps.

JON DEAN: 10:13 Yeah, it's quite overwhelming, isn't it?

SAM SALTER: 10:14 It's a lot. And I wouldn't want to get too obsessed with it where it

gets unhealthy. I do like the way I look and that's also taken

some time to get to that headspace because I've been, as a gay

guy, you're super critical. There's a body standard that most, not

everyone, but most people want to reach. And is it attainable?

Can you really be that lean all the time or are you just hungry all

the time? It's quite miserable. And I've had that, I've experienced

that when I've tried really hard to get lean nice and fast. And I've

been in bed at midnight and I can't sleep and I'm like, this is

miserable. I'm miserable. All to get small percentage body fat.

JON DEAN: 10:57 And is it something that you've always been quite comfortable

with? I was definitely one of those kids that was very, very

chubby until I was 17. And then as soon as I could join a gym, I

became really underweight. And that seems to be quite a

common thread as well before me and the after me. I feel like

that's a gay thing, isn't it? They're like, this was me when I was

16. This is awkward. Slightly fat kid next to all their parents and

then it's them now looking quite Jim buff and stuff. Would you

say that you had any sort of transformation? Have you been quite

consistent? Obviously you've been dancing for so long.

SAM SALTER: 11:27 A hundred percent. I had that too. I was quite a chubby kid.

Really loved the sweets. Yep, loved the chocolate. I remember I

was quite, had the love handles and I remember getting a

comment from, it was either a teacher or it was one of my mom's

friends, oh, look at those love handles. And I still remember it

and it stuck with me for many, many years. And always the first

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 6 of 18

thing I'd pinch would be my hips. And it's so crazy how that kind

of one little flittering moment can just fix.

JON DEAN: 12:07 Do you ever find yourself pinching it now?

SAM SALTER: 12:08 Absolutely. Wow. Yeah.

JON DEAN: 12:12 Yeah. It's nuts. How one thing that was said when what you were

like 12

SAM SALTER: 12:17 Or Yeah, maybe younger. I dunno.

JON DEAN: 12:19 That thing even now, you still find yourself pinching, your nonexistent

love handles just to, that was a habit that you always

had. So

SAM SALTER: 12:26 Weird. I was in the best shape of my life. I was in December just

now, 23. I was doing a dance show and super high energy. I was

burning so many calories, I was so lean. And I look back at

photos now and I was like, God, I was lean, but at the time I was

still maybe a little bit more. I was so lean. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Body stuff is so interesting. Yeah, it is.

JON DEAN: 12:56 Yeah. And it's funny that you can look at a photo and not know

when you were in that moment how good you look in inverted

commas. It's like you can look back and go, God, I was in great

shape then I thought I had a bit of a belly and what the hell? You

know what I mean?

SAM SALTER: 13:10 Yeah. It's so crazy. When I did Swan Lake, all of us boys, we

were so again, lean because that show was killer. And you look

back and we were so skinny, actually skinny because we were

working so hard. But at the time, again, you're like, oh, could be

lunar.

JON DEAN: 13:28 Yeah. I promise we're not just going to talk about your body for

a whole hour. I know. We've just spoken about

SAM SALTER: 13:34 It. I actually, I haven't been to the gym for about week. I've

really hurt my shoulder and it's making me sad. I missed that

routine of getting to go. But yeah, my shoulder's really not good

at the moment. Anyway. That's boring.

JON DEAN: 13:46 No, we can talk about yourself.

13:49 That's actually the next thing I was going to ask you is about

routine. Because routine travelling, obviously working in a

creative field where you might get flown out somewhere or

you're staying in hotels in different parts of the country. I find

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 7 of 18

when I travel, it gives me a bit of anxiety because I like routine

so much so that I like going to the gym in the morning and I like

watching what I'm eating to some degree that it throws it out of

kilter. And you're constantly living out of a bag and one minute

you're in Barcelona or the next minute you're in London. How do

you manage that? How do you keep on track of what you're

eating, but also just general life routine?

SAM SALTER: 14:27 God, yeah. I so agree. I really hate hotel workouts. I hate them. I

think the gyms, well, I just like being in my own gym. I think

there's something about being in your home gym, you know

exactly where everything is. I find a lot of the gyms when

travelling, unless you're going into a proper gym in the city, a lot

of these hotel gyms are quite small. They don't have the right

weights. They're not heavy enough. Maybe they don't have

enough machinery. So if I'm honest, working out I'm away is

always quite poor. I will go and I'll do 20 minutes. Eating wise,

when you're away again is quite hard. But because I travel quite

a lot, it's a bit easier to stay healthier. I think when you are away

on holiday and you're at the breakfast bar and you see the

pancakes and you're like, oh my god, got to have those pancakes.

But because I do go away a bit, I do tend to just stick to the

healthier option because I know I just feel so much better with

that after I've eaten it. Although sometimes those pancakes, God

JON DEAN: 15:22 Oh absolutely. Especially if you had a massive day dance in the

day before. You're like

SAM SALTER: 15:25 That. Yeah, exactly. Earned this. Exactly. Yeah.

JON DEAN: 15:28 Would you say that you like travelling with work? Yeah. You

do? Yeah, I do.

SAM SALTER: 15:31 I love it.

JON DEAN: 15:32 So where's your favourite places that you've been? Or where do

you love going in the world?

SAM SALTER: 15:38 Last year I went on a trip with, and we went to Volcano Island or

in Sicily.

JON DEAN: 15:45 I've never heard of

SAM SALTER: 15:46 It. I know neither had I. Volcano Island. Volcano Island. I hope

I'm saying that right. Yeah. It was the most amazing trip. We got

to hike a volcano, go and then we were meant to get a helicopter

from, this is just so crazy when I say out loud, we were meant to

fly us by a helicopter onto the islands, but the weather was bad

that day. But yeah. And then they had a boat, a Sean Beier boat,

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 8 of 18

and we went on a boat for a few hours with the global team. So

boys from different countries and we were all together and then

they had a beach and then in the corner there was a shoot set up

and then with the photographer and then we'd have our cool

time. And then

JON DEAN: 16:29 I want to talk to you as well about, obviously when you came in,

you were like, I've got so many things going on at the moment,

like dancing and making branded content and that sort of thing.

Is there anything that you're not doing that you feel like you

would like to try out or something which could even be a very

obscure idea that you think you might be good at that you've

never done before?

SAM SALTER: 16:49 I had really like to go into acting and I just filmed a short film as

an actor and I loved the experience of filming. So if I had a little

bit more time, I'd like to work on a few more scenes and take

some more classes, get better at screen acting and techniques. So

yeah, that is something I'm looking to do when things calm down

a little bit

JON DEAN: 17:13 More. And would that be acting for theatre and screen or are you

very much, I want to be a TV actor?

SAM SALTER: 17:19 Honestly, either. I think screen is a little bit more compelling to

me, but yeah, no, I'd love to be in a play or something like that.

JON DEAN: 17:28 You said you've shot some things, so you've seen yourself back

on camera?

SAM SALTER: 17:31 I haven't seen the cut yet. Oh,

JON DEAN: 17:32 You haven't? No,

SAM SALTER: 17:33 No. I mean I've done tapes as well. I've, I've taped for things

before, so I have watched myself tapes back.

JON DEAN: 17:40 Is that a strange feeling? Obviously it is hypercritical, isn't it?

When you are doing screen acting, you are picking apart

everything in terms of voice way I look, my reaction, my

listening face, that sort of thing. How are you with watching

yourself back?

SAM SALTER: 17:55 It's getting easier, but it's still hard to see your face back then you

see things like your frown lines, right? I was like, why do I have

these frown lines all the time? But then I was watching and

really studying actors. When I watch a film, I put the subtitles on

and I study them and their faces are moving. I'm like, calm

down, this is normal. This is what your face does. That's what it

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 9 of 18

is. So it's not going to freeze. But yeah, it's been interesting

flipping my mindset recently, just watching the great actors and

the great movies. And like I said, with subtitles on, because I'm

interested in reading the line and seeing how the actor makes it

turns into life. So I'm kind of studying that as I watch, which

JON DEAN: 18:41 Is cool. So what would you say to somebody, I feel like, I mean,

I've only met you for almost an hour, but I feel like you're good

at just throwing yourself into something, having the confidence

to give it a go. How do you get yourself over the edge? How do

you just put yourself in front of a camera? How do you perform

in front of a thousand people? What's your go-to to not self-

Sabotage yourself.

SAM SALTER: 19:06 Oh, I'm so thankful to my mom because I just always remember

her going, go for it very much in that time of Sam. Just go for it.

Go for it. Simple as that. I was watching these YouTube videos

of the older generations saying to this guy that interviewed them

saying, I wish I didn't care as much when I was younger. That

was the question. If you were younger, what advice would you

give to yourself? Almost all of them. I wish I just went for it. I

wish I didn't care as much and I don't want to be 80 and go, I

wish I tried the acting thing, but it was too scared. I want to go. I

really tried it. It didn't work out, but I really gave it a shot.

JON DEAN: 19:46 And do you know what? As a man that does lots of different

things, all in the same sort of field, there's something I think I get

nervous about venturing into something different that people

don't know me as. I dunno. Do you experience the same thing?

Because then they're like, why is he trying to do that? Totally.

It's almost like, okay, now I'll just go back to holding a camera

and I'm not going to try and do this podcast. I'm not going to try

and do standup comedy or whatever. I am just going to stay in

my safe zone because that's what everybody else knows. Yeah.

Can

SAM SALTER: 20:15 Combat that. That's their issue. They want to put you in a safe

zone for someone to go, why is he trying that? Sorry, but that's a

little bit like, well, why do you care? You know what I mean?

I've in the same breath until recently, this acting thing, I kept it

quite secret. I was a dancer, just a dancer. But now I'm like, no,

fuck it. Can I swear? Yeah, of course. Fuck it. I was like, fuck it.

If I want to try acting, I'll try it. People do love to put you in a

box,

JON DEAN: 20:48 But is it people putting you in a box or is it us imagining they're

doing that to us? Do people actually care as much as we think

they're caring? Do you know what I mean?

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 10 of 18

SAM SALTER: 20:55 Well, I had an experience recently with an old school friend that

very much put me in that box and kind of scoffed at my acting

short film. I was about to film at the time acting. And I was like,

yeah, we'll see how that goes. Yeah, I know. And I was like, I

use cheeky bastards, but do you know what that is? It's like their

insecurities projecting onto me where they feel like maybe

they're not super happy on their career right now. So that kind of

projection is their uncomfortable feelings pressed on. I don't

know if you've ever felt this, but if you've ever been, lemme talk

from my experience, if I've ever judged someone negatively at

that point in my life, I've been quite unhappy when I've been at

my most happiest, positive, fulfilled moments. I don't tend to

have those thoughts on others. I really do feel like we project out

what we're feeling inside. So I guess you've got to kind of feel

sorry for those people that put you down or put you in that box.

JON DEAN: 22:04 Yeah, I think that's extremely true. I know from personal

experience, so I went to drama school, I would get very jealous if

my peers were getting parts and things and so much so that I

would almost sounds so shit to say out loud, but I was 18 or

whatever. But you'd be like, oh, they didn't get the part, or they

went for that really amazing audition for that TV show, but they

didn't get it. And obviously I didn't say that to them, but in my

head I was like, and then now I hope I would never react like

that. Obviously I've matured and I'm in a much happier place,

but it's so true that the sort of jealousy and the competitiveness

and the wanting people to fail and that sort of thing is something,

it does come from a place of jealousy and an unhappy spot.

SAM SALTER: 22:50 And were you, at that time, were you really succeeding in your

JON DEAN: 22:55 No. Not even going for it.

SAM SALTER: 22:56 So that

JON DEAN: 22:57 Not even going for it. Yeah.

SAM SALTER: 22:59 And that's it. So I think using that now, if someone has that kind

of against us, it's probably because they're not super fulfilled at

that time.

JON DEAN: 23:08 Yeah. I want to talk about boys.

SAM SALTER: 23:15 Oh, boys,

JON DEAN: 23:16 Okay. Dating and whatnot. Are you currently in a relationship?

SAM SALTER: 23:22 Single.

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 11 of 18

JON DEAN: 23:23 Single? Yeah. And is that a happy single or is it a

SAM SALTER: 23:28 Yeah, it's needed.

JON DEAN: 23:29 A needed single.

SAM SALTER: 23:31 Yeah. Yeah. Relationships are my biggest question mark. Tricky

thing. I find them really challenging.

JON DEAN: 23:41 Tell me what you find challenging about

SAM SALTER: 23:44 I've had very short relationships for all my twenties. Maybe at

the beginning actually, I had a partner for eight months or

something. I mean, I've never had a relationship longer than a

year. I don't know, it's such a confusing thing for me where

maybe I'm going for someone that isn't quite suited for me. I

know that in the past I've definitely gone for guys that I think are

right for me. But really, truly, I don't think they were right for me

at all. But I was such a romantic throughout my twenties. I really

wanted that amazing long-term relationship, living with a

boyfriend and super happy and romantic. And I think I kind of

forced my brain into liking a lot of the guys that I've dated. Not

all of them, some of them I really did. But I think I was

persuading myself that they were really right. And it just

obviously didn't work out a lot of my relationships. I think I have

a three month curse. I think my last three boyfriends were three

months. It's like a quarter year

JON DEAN: 24:51 Curse. And is that more on your side or their side in terms of the

finishing? Yeah, the shift.

SAM SALTER: 24:59 It's a mix. Yeah, it's a

JON DEAN: 25:00 Mix. Yeah. It's also difficult. I think that I talked to some of my

mates about the loving, and this is a definite gay thing, is that we

do really well independently,

SAM SALTER: 25:13 A hundred percent. I think I was saying this to my therapist, I

was like, I'm so much better on my own. I'm so much more

confident, independent, positive, happy. And then in

relationships I tend to just crumble a little bit and get insecure

and paranoid.

JON DEAN: 25:31 There's a clarity to singleness

SAM SALTER: 25:33 And I still kind of do believe that maybe I haven't met the right

guy yet, but I am so much more confident and myself when I'm

on my own

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 12 of 18

25:43 And I love doing things on my own, what tends to happen to me

is I kind of make that person my world and I let them dictate my

mood and all that stuff. And I'm really working on it to not let

that happen. But I dunno how it just happened throughout a lot

of my relationships where I felt very, first of all, inferior to that

person. And this is all my doing. Yeah. I would feel kind of less

than and not good enough always, rather than being like, no, they

should be proud to be with me too. I'd never think that.

JON DEAN: 26:24 Have you ever been obsessed with somebody?

SAM SALTER: 26:27 What baby? Reiner obsessed.

JON DEAN: 26:29 Maybe not to that extent, but what you're saying is it sounds like

you, if we're breaking it down into the attachment styles of

people, you are the one that kind of anxious. Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

No, I know I am. Put words in your mouth. No, no. And then

that person tends to put the other person on a pedestal.

SAM SALTER: 26:46 Yes, absolutely. I think it takes me a long time to get over some

of my partners. It's taken me up to a year.

JON DEAN: 26:56 Really?

SAM SALTER: 26:56 Wow. And that's thinking about 'em a lot. And it's hard to let go

and it's quite sad. I find it really sad. And that, again, I don't want

to be too negative, but it puts me off being in a relationship

really. Because it's like if it doesn't, do I have to go through this

heartbreak again?

JON DEAN: 27:13 Yeah. Have you ever done long distance?

SAM SALTER: 27:16 No.

JON DEAN: 27:17 No. So it's always been local people?

SAM SALTER: 27:19 Yeah. Yeah. I flew to Canada once to date a guy, which was

crazy. I'd never met him. We spent a week together and we

decided we were going to be boyfriends. And then a few days

later, once I moved home, we split up like, this isn't going to

work.

JON DEAN: 27:33 Right. Sounds like a great week though.

SAM SALTER: 27:35 It was so much fun. Yeah.

JON DEAN: 27:36 How did you meet him?

SAM SALTER: 27:38 Instagram.

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 13 of 18

JON DEAN: 27:39 Oh really? And you just liked what you saw? So you just

SAM SALTER: 27:42 Got chatting and then we FaceTimed. Then he was like, why

don't you come to Montreal? And I was like, yeah, alright. I

think I was like 24.

JON DEAN: 27:49 That's really exciting though. I bet That was a really fun trip.

SAM SALTER: 27:52 It was super fun.

JON DEAN: 27:53 I think that some gay guys think that as well. Maybe because you

go to a lot of industry events and maybe you meet a lot more gay

men organically just through the work that you do that it's a lot

easier to find potential boyfriends and dates and that sort of

thing. Would you agree with that or not?

SAM SALTER: 28:12 I mean, it's so funny because I've been to a lot of these fashion

parties and there are beautiful people everywhere, but I've never

met anyone I've really been attracted to or gone on a date with.

And also I feel like everyone's mind is kind of there to kind of

work a little bit. It's not as, whereas if you're going out to a club,

I feel like there is a different energy. But at these kind of

industry events, it's not so I want to say appropriate to be fishing

out the hot one to date.

JON DEAN: 28:43 No, it's so true that you're on in terms of a working environment.

28:49 So Sam, something I would like to talk to you about, and it's

something that I know that we both struggle with, is our

relationship with alcohol. I know that you've been very open

about periods in your life when you've been sober and it's very

difficult as well. Obviously it's everywhere and clubbing and

going out and that sort of thing. So to bond over bond with other

gay guys off something which isn't drinking. But this extends to

just British culture in general. On a hot day today in London,

you'll walk out onto Broadway market and everyone will be

there with AOL spritz drinking outside. It's like it's so hard

sometimes to actually figure out or ask your mates, let's do

something that's not going to a beer garden today. Because

people are like, that's kind of the thing we do. Do you know what

I

SAM SALTER: 29:32 Mean? It's honestly crazy. And drinking specifically, drinking is

in every situation possible. Like a funeral at a wedding, a baby

shower apart from the mother, a party, you're sad, someone

broke up with you, let's go to the pub. Or you want to go on a

date? Let's go to a pub. It is everywhere. It's everywhere. I can't

think apart from maybe when you're working or you're pregnant

or something, that's when you're not drinking. But I just think,

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 14 of 18

God, it is so everywhere and almost every situation there is a

drink involved. I've had people that haven't wanted to cheers me

before with a Diet Coke because to them it doesn't make sense.

Why would you cheers with an non-alcoholic drink? But really

it's just, it's funny, isn't it? How the culture has so kind of walked

in our heads.

JON DEAN: 30:26 I have a relationship with alcohol where I'm very extreme. So

I've done 150 days sober because I was like, I function so much

better as a non-drinker. My eyes look better, my skin is better,

I'm switched on. I know what I'm saying. I'm just on the ball. But

the point of which I decide to then start drinking is because I feel

so good that I go. I think I can just have a couple of glasses of

wine now because I'm feeling great. I've fixed whatever hole I

was in at Christmas that now I'm feeling fucking great that I'm

now going to have a couple of drinks and then I just go a berserk

SAM SALTER: 31:03 God, honestly, I so relate. And I've been working on it for so

many years of really therapy, really, really dig deep. But why is

this happening?

JON DEAN: 31:13 Talking in interviews about being sober in the past, do you find

having a following and people asking you about it, is that also

difficult because you don't want to be holding a torch for the

sober community when it's something that you are struggling

with. So people coming to you asking for advice, that must be

quite a weight as well, is it

SAM SALTER: 31:33 Can be really hard. Yeah, a lot of pressure. So a few years ago I

was really vocal about it and I'd get amazing dms and people

would be like, you've really helped me in so many ways. But

wherever I'm at, wherever I am at with sobriety and slipups or

whatever, I'll still reply because I still have the knowledge. But

yeah, there's a lot of pressure with it and I decided to talk less

about it because at the end of the day, I do need to focus on my

wellbeing. Yeah,

JON DEAN: 32:08 Sometimes you become an accidental advocate for something

that you've mentioned. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's

like I never wanted to stand on the top of the mountain and sort

of now be a voice for the sober community. I haven't 100%

figured this out myself.

SAM SALTER: 32:20 I know. And I always said that and I've always stated that I'm

like, I'm not perfect. I could slip up again, it might happen again,

but this is where I'm currently at. I've always been really careful

to say, I'm not the king of sobriety here. I will share my

experience. It could help you Or people, sorry. It could help a

person listening. But no, I don't want to be this person that's like,

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 15 of 18

JON DEAN: 32:44 Are you into meditation?

SAM SALTER: 32:45 I try to.

JON DEAN: 32:46 Yeah.

SAM SALTER: 32:47 I try to. Not a lot. It depends. Depends. That's something I'd like

to do a little bit more

JON DEAN: 32:52 Of. You feel so good when you're in the habit of meditation and

just

SAM SALTER: 32:58 Meditation really is amazing. Yeah, I wish I did it more. It really

is so good.

JON DEAN: 33:02 Why is it so hard to stick to? It's really

SAM SALTER: 33:04 It's like I don't have time. I don't have time. Flo up Flora, you've

got 10 minutes. Yeah,

JON DEAN: 33:08 I think there's something about the thought of just sitting doing

nothing because it's hard. Even I Don dunno. Would you say that

you're a person that's addicted to your phone?

SAM SALTER: 33:16 Yeah, I struggle on my phone a lot. I am on it a lot.

JON DEAN: 33:20 Yeah, it's scary when you look at screen time, right? Is you ever

even I don't look. Yeah, I think sometimes it comes up

automatically because that control centre thing flips down and

then it'll say four and a half hours. You've been on it on

something. But how do you manage that? Obviously if you're

creating content for brands and you are responding to people or

whatever, how do you manage not being on your phone a lot?

SAM SALTER: 33:41 When I need to be on it, I'll be on it, but honestly it is pretty

throughout the day on and off. But in the mornings, like I said at

the gym and when I wake up, I try not to go on it. I also use

Instagram and a little bit more of a healthier way. I don't tend to

scroll a lot. Sometimes I find I can get myself into comparison

mode with other people and I don't like it. So I've kind of

naturally, I've stopped checking who watches my stories. I don't

really look, I don't really check who follows me anymore. I try

and just keep it very, just try and protect myself with it a little

bit. And I'll go on there and I'll try and if it's a job on there, I'll

try and do the best job I can. Or I do love taking photos and

getting creative and making transition videos. I do love that. So

I'll go on there and I'll do that. But I try not to scroll and look at

and compare myself to other people. I think it can get quite

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 16 of 18

unhealthy. I've definitely had really unhealthy moments on that

app.

JON DEAN: 34:41 Really. Yeah. Would you say that your poison when it comes to

your phone, is social media, is that what you're spending most of

your time on? Or is it just even opening? I know I look at right

move five times a day for absolutely no reason. I

SAM SALTER: 34:54 No way. Yeah. Mine social media, is it?

JON DEAN: 34:56 Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And the negative of that is that you're

seeing people doing cool things and bodies and that sort of stuff

and all

SAM SALTER: 35:02 Of that stuff, and the negative head and when it's also your job

and work, oh my God, that creator got that fashion collab. I

didn't get that. Or, oh, they're going on that trip that I went on

last year, but I am not going this time. Maybe the brand hate me.

Oh my God, it is probably not that deep. Maybe they just want to

try new people out. You know what I mean? So yeah, it's

sometime it's hard to not compare yourself and then bodies and

all that kind of stuff.

JON DEAN: 35:29 And do you love it when you get lots of attention off a picture of

you? Does that actually fulfil you?

SAM SALTER: 35:33 I don't know. It's hard to answer. It becomes, when it's like a job,

the numbers become a little bit numbing. It's so funny because a

photo could do really well and video, it could go viral or

whatever, but, oh, I dunno how to answer this question. It's quite

confusing. I've been doing it for a long time now as well. So it's

like I'm on there to get creative and do a job. And of course if it

does well that's great, but I'm not on top of the world. I can still

have very low self-esteem. Whether a photo gets lots of likes or

not, I could still have really low self-esteem that day. It doesn't

build me up and make me feel amazing. And also, it's funny

because I think people that don't know me maybe think that I'm

super confident and because maybe I have a following and get

likes and stuff that I must think I'm the shit I don't. I have still

really low self-esteem some days really, I could get really in my

head and anxious and not like myself very much. So, yeah, the

likes, it doesn't always make you feel like the best. I hope that

doesn't make me sound ungrateful. I'm not ungrateful for it and I

love it. But yeah, it doesn't make me, I wish all those likes could

make me the most confident person in the world, but it doesn't.

JON DEAN: 36:55 I want to just round off talking about, obviously you're in your

thirties now. I like to think it's a really exciting part of our life

that we're going into. What are your thoughts about the next 10

years?

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 17 of 18

SAM SALTER: 37:05 I'm really looking forward to it. I'm really looking forward to the

next 10 years. I think I just want to continue to work on myself

and keep my relationship strong with self, with friends, venture

out and try new things with my career. Keep working hard, but

also learning in my thirties to go. I'm not going to do that. I'm

going to take a day off. So far I'm not so good. I'm only a

weekend, but that's something I would really like to try and learn

to say no. And yeah, just try and honestly just try and live a

really nice good life. Not try and be in my head too much about

things that don't matter.

JON DEAN: 37:49 How do you reflect on your twenties? What do you think when

you look at that whole 10 years of your life?

SAM SALTER: 37:55 Wow. So happy and fulfilled with what I did. It was

unbelievable. I was so pleased that I got to do certain things with

my personal life, such a rollercoaster. But I think I know myself

quite well. That's one thing I'm proud to say is that I am quite

aware and I think my rocky twenties has got me to this point of

being quite self-aware of my head and things that aren't good for

me, things that are good for me.

JON DEAN: 38:38 Is there any real lesson that you're going to take away from your

twenties even in terms of relationships, friendships, personal? Is

there anything that you're really moving forward with and going

to be really going on? Yeah,

SAM SALTER: 38:50 It's like what's good for

JON DEAN: 38:53 You

SAM SALTER: 38:55 And you really do with so many areas of your life deep down,

you can ask your friends, you can ask your therapist, you can ask

your parents. I really think you actually know the answer.

JON DEAN: 39:06 Would you say that you've got a dream booking that you would

love to do? Obviously you want to go into acting. So a dream

booking? Yeah, like a job or something. Would you love to be in

a sort of fantasy film or a TV series? I could so see you in an it's

a Sin or something

SAM SALTER: 39:21 Like that. I'd love to be in something like it's a sin. Love that.

JON DEAN: 39:25 We'll just leave that there for Russell to date. Hey

SAM SALTER: 39:28 Russell.

JON DEAN: 39:28 Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, do you have a specific thing that you

really,

This transcript was exported on Jun 23, 2024 - view latest version here.

SAM SALTER ALL OUT FINAL AUDIO (Completed 06/23/24)

Transcript by Rev.com

Page 18 of 18

SAM SALTER: 39:34 Honestly, something like it's a sin, something gritty and dark and

something I could actually really relate to in terms of the

partying. I'd love to be get into a character that was I'd had

experienced with. And then equally in the same breath, I'd love

to try and work on a character that is far away from me so I

could really research it, work on it, and put myself into that mind

of someone else. That would be really cool. I'd also really love to

do something like a Calvin Klein ad. Oh

JON DEAN: 40:11 Definitely.

SAM SALTER: 40:12 Yeah. Or like a Times Square Dancing in the Rain. I always say

that. Dancing in the Rain Times Square on that big tv. Yeah, that

would be. So that's my dream. Yeah, that's another dream of

mine.

JON DEAN: 40:24 Yeah, Sam, we have to leave it there. But I have absolutely loved

this chat. Thank you so much for opening up and being

vulnerable and generally just being lovely. So

SAM SALTER: 40:35 Thank you. That went really fast.