Try That in a Small Town Podcast
In 2023, Jason Aldean's groundbreaking song and video "Try That In A Small Town" resonated with a resurgence of conservative values in America. The writers of the song, Kurt, Neil, Tully, and Kelley, took the opportunity to launch the Try That In A Small Town Podcast. This platform allows them to reveal the true inspiration behind the song and discuss the importance of common-sense values. With a lineup of influential guests, the hosts will entertain you with the stories behind their music, while also addressing challenging topics affecting our communities and country.
Try That in a Small Town Podcast
When Punk Rock Goes Soft and Compliant: An Offspring to a Freedom of Choice w/Pete Parada :: Ep 38 Try That in a Small Town
What happens when personal convictions clash with professional commitments? Former Offspring drummer Pete Parata joins us to share his profound journey through the music industry, marked by unexpected twists and turns. From his modest beginnings in upstate New York to becoming a pivotal figure in the punk rock scene, Pete's experiences are a testament to the power of passion and opportunity.
His story took a dramatic turn during the COVID-19 pandemic when, despite 14 years with The Offspring, he faced the difficult choice of standing by his principles in the face of vaccine mandates. Pete courageously opens up about the emotional and professional challenges following his decision, offering a unique perspective on the intersection of personal values and career demands.
As we navigate the uneasy waters of the music industry during a global crisis, Pete's candid reflections provide a window into the personal and professional upheavals that artists encountered. He reveals the often-unseen dynamics of band relationships, the heavy toll of being replaced without notice, and the complex moral quandaries that arose during the pandemic. His story extends beyond personal struggles, exploring how COVID-19 protocols reshaped the music landscape for musicians, crews, and fans, often in unforeseen ways. These revelations invite listeners to ponder the broader implications of standing by one's beliefs in an industry governed by ever-changing norms.
Emerging from adversity with renewed artistic freedom, Pete shares how he reclaimed his passion for music. A friend's timely encouragement led to a transformative studio session, reigniting his creative spirit and opening new doors in songwriting and production. This episode is not just about the past challenges but also about the resilience and growth Pete experienced, reminding us all of the power of creativity and connection in overcoming life's hurdles. Join us for an engaging conversation filled with personal anecdotes, industry insights, and an unyielding spirit of defiance and renewal.
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I never took it personally. Even you know things that were personal, like oh, we're just going to cut you and your family off entirely, like you know where a week before, everyone was family and you know it's like you find out that your family, as long as you are doing what you're told, and the first time you say no, and that was the thing.
Speaker 1:Like as a a drummer, we eat copious amounts of shit. My thing wasn't, you know, trying to cause problems. I should have been able to do my job without going through some medical procedure that I did not need or want did they change the lyrics to the song Tully?
Speaker 3:or somebody, pete, get me something.
Speaker 1:They did they made a little video clip and they changed the keep them. You got to keep them separated, so you got to go get vaccinated that is not true, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:The try that in a small town podcast begins now from the patriot, from the patriot mobile studios.
Speaker 3:We need like him doing that From the Patriot. From the Patriot Mobile Studios. We need like Jim doing that. This is Try that in a Small Town podcast, right yeah.
Speaker 5:Guys, yeah, you are.
Speaker 6:Is that a?
Speaker 3:question. No, it's a rhetorical question.
Speaker 5:Oh, not a word. It's different than a regular question.
Speaker 7:This is it?
Speaker 3:No big words. You went right Like question mark. Yeah, it's kind of like right, the English kind of talk like that. That's a northern thing.
Speaker 6:That's an Iowa thing, isn't it? I don't know. It's almost Canadian. Yeah, right Do, ya Do ya, that's really not good.
Speaker 5:What that accent is not good. Are we rolling? We are definitely rolling, oh wow, but you know what we're kind?
Speaker 3:of keeping the Christmas spirit going. We've been loose for a while.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Some call it loose.
Speaker 3:Some call it drunk.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we've been loose. We're not drunk. We're not drunk, we're not drunk. No, I'm just joking man. Happy New Year, all our listeners.
Speaker 3:But either accusation is fair, so tonight this is going to be a really good one. Tonight we have Pete Parata coming on. He was a drummer in the Offspring, for you know. You said it was 14 years, was that right? Yeah, about 14 years. He's got an incredible story. He was with them that long and they let him go during COVID because he wouldn't get the facts.
Speaker 5:Let him go in a cold way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. I can't wait to figure this out, like I'm sure we all done a research and it's like what I've read and what I've heard. It's it's pretty bad and you know telling. I can attest. It's like you, you're on the road with somebody for that long they just are your family. It's. You know people say road family but it's like you just become family. You know people say road family but it's like you just become family.
Speaker 7:And to basically ghost him like that is, I can't even unconscionable. Yeah, and he'll go into it, but it's like he had a medical condition that kind of prevented him from getting that vaccine or something. Yeah, it wasn't like an anti-vaxxer Like, hey, I don't want to get this because you know it's against my religion or anything like that, you know so yeah, yeah, I think he hadn't.
Speaker 3:I can't pronounce the autoimmune disorder as something french sounding, yeah it had three, three names.
Speaker 3:Yeah, whatever it is is a serious thing. From what I understand, it's like when he was a child vaccinated it. It caused some problems. Anyway, it's a real interesting story and I can't wait to get to it. So let's do it. We've got Pete Perotta here. Yeah, yeah, come on, pete. Thank you, man. Thanks for having me. Pete, absolutely, you know we don't have. You're one of a few. Usually we've known the guest or we have some kind of relationship. Pete, we just hit up, dm'd him and said, bro, come be on our podcast, and he was like, sure you must trust us.
Speaker 6:I assumed you guys because you know a lot of rock guys, and I assumed y'all were all buds.
Speaker 7:I did too.
Speaker 1:Never met. Yeah, we're never just meeting you guys the first time, but we're all very close. We all live pretty similar areas. I do too, yeah.
Speaker 3:Cool. He's saying you look that cool. I don't know. I don't know either. Pete's got a really great and interesting story and you know, sometimes I don't want to say we get lost. But part of the mission of this podcast started with the song our song Drive Down to Small Town, and I think we wanted to highlight people that kind of stood up in the face of adversity or took a stand for what they believe in, because that's not easy to do. I've heard tully say that a lot and it's it's true, it's not easy to do. Pete has a great story. We're gonna get to that and part of that. But take us back just a little bit. Start us off. How did you get into playing Like most, like totally could probably back this up. Most people that get musicians at start you're inspired by going to see a concert Like that's how it happened for me. I saw Van Halen and I was like bro, that's it Totally. What was you? The police?
Speaker 3:police, you saw, that, so I saw sting and I was like never forget.
Speaker 5:He had this like white feathered sleeveless jacket on. I was like, okay, that's what I want I want the jacket. No, it was amazing. Yeah, synchronicity tour. I was a kid in montreal yeah mold, so, but it was uh yeah.
Speaker 3:So, pete, what was your? Did you have a story like that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean my uh, growing up where I did in upstate new york was very small town like probably less than a thousand people, and my dad was a music teacher at the next town over um of like middle school, high school band band, and so you know, I had two older brothers and I watched them, you know, pick their instrument when it was time, like third grade or whatever, and my oldest brother played the clarinet and my middle brother played the saxophone and I didn't want to learn all the fingerings and I had already been like banging around and stuff. So I was like, oh, I'll just pull a fast one, I'll play drums, then it'll be easy, and then just kind of fell in love with it, didn't realize like that was going to be what I would do, you know, with my life. And um, for me, like you said, seeing the police, seeing Van Halen, you know I was uh in such a tiny town. You know, if a band came to Rochester, cool, but you didn't get to to to see big bands very often where I was from, and uh, so for me I got dragged out to see a show from a high school band for where my dad taught, and uh, their, their drummer blew my mind like he was a year older than me and I I don't know what it was with me. You know, I would watch these bands on mtv.
Speaker 1:Like I grew up on hair, metal and and metallic and all that, and I was like, oh, I could never play like that. Like I had some weird hair, metal and metallic and all that, and I was like, oh, I could never play like that. Like I had some weird block, being from a small town, right and uh. And then I go and here's this kid playing, exactly like the people that I saw on TV, and it was like like light bulb went off in my head and it was like, all right, if he can do it, I can do it. And went home the next day and just started practicing and like got, and that was my focus from that day on, and just that one going to see some high school band in a crappy little bar or something. It changed everything for me.
Speaker 3:You guys have a first concert or something that was life-changing Van Halen.
Speaker 7:Was it Van Halen?
Speaker 4:It was Van Halen.
Speaker 6:Where did you see him?
Speaker 7:Even though they were in Chattanooga, really. Yeah, I don't know what year it was, but it was called the Roundhouse at the time. I don't know what it's called now.
Speaker 3:Was it with Roth. I mean please say yes, it had to be.
Speaker 6:Yes, okay it no. He's fantastic, I'm just saying. I'm just saying I was like 15. I'm not dissing, I was 14, 15.
Speaker 3:He's badass. Neil, do you have a first concert?
Speaker 6:Yeah, my first concert was Bachman Turner Overdrive Wow.
Speaker 3:Let's go I like it.
Speaker 6:Taking care of business yep in Birmingham at the Battle Auditorium. Those are the songs I sing in the bar bands.
Speaker 6:But I'll never my uncle had. You know, they have Thrasher Leasing Corporation, the bus company, and they were like the first ones that had Kiss out and ZZ Top and all that, but Bachman Turner Overdrive was on their buses. So we got to get in for free and I'll never forget walking in and the first thing I smelled it was the first time I ever smelled pot. I mean, it was just a cloud and I just thought that's what a rock concert smelled like.
Speaker 7:I thought, that's what a rock concert smelled like.
Speaker 6:I thought that's what guitar smelled like. Amp smelled like this is the smell of a rock concert. Strangely drawn to it, that was my first one.
Speaker 3:So I, I was. I love it okay. So, pete, you have passion for the drums, obviously. Uh, what led you? I know you moved to la. Is that right, and is that kind of how things started to get going for you?
Speaker 1:yeah, so the same drummer that I went to see that night. You know, I go home the next day and I said to my dad I'm like do you have a guy, a kid, in your band named mick palmisano? And he's like oh yeah, he's a fantastic drummer. And I was like how come you've never mentioned him to me?
Speaker 1:and you know, my dad was a blunt person and he was just like, well, Mick's very serious about drums and you're kind of not. So I was like, all right, fair, fair enough. But so ended up moving to LA with Mick. We got to be friends and he had moved out cause he was a year ahead of me. So he graduated high school, went to LA to musicians Institute, did the first six months and kind of came home for the summer and then I had gotten accepted into the the same school. So we drove back out together at the end of the summer.
Speaker 3:You were legit at that time yeah, I mean I, I gotta.
Speaker 1:I kind of think that there was a wide range of proficiency at the school. It wasn't like you were Neil Peart to get in, which was cool, because it was like you had a whole different. These guys would come in from Sweden and just party, because Sweden would pay for them to go to school for a year and whatever, and they would just rage partying all the time and then come in and sight-read their tests and just be shredding and all of us are just like, oh my God, I'm in here playing eight hours a day and you guys are like half wasted taking your exams. But but it was. It was a really great experience. Like I learned a ton in a very short amount of time and and, um, you know, met a lot of great teachers there and made some lifelong friends.
Speaker 1:One of my first instructors there was a drummer named Ray Luzier, who lives here now and but um, so he plays drums for corn. He played for David Lee Roth for over a decade. Like he's one of the best rock drummers that there's ever been. But you know, at the time he was just had just graduated, started teaching cause they were pumping up their rock classes and so we got to be buddies. When I graduated I ended up being roommates for three years and so, um, you know, you just kind of meet people like that and it spirals from there. So, like once I graduated, then Ray would kick down gigs that he was too busy for to me to kind of get me started in LA and getting an album playing.
Speaker 1:And you know, from there I just eventually fell into punk rock by accident. You know, I grew up on heavy metal and I didn't know anything about punk rock. But there was a band, this rehearsal studio that I'd been working at, that was auditioning drummers and they were called Face to Face. And it was, they were a pretty big punk rock band in Southernifornia and I didn't, you know, I didn't think anything of it because I'm like I don't play punk rock. And then a friend of mine was tour managing them and he called me like a week into the tour and he's like these guys are auditioning drummers under your nose, what are you doing? And I'm like, well, I don't, I don't know punk rock, it's not my thing. And he's like you know, he's like, well, they're the guy they borrowed for this tour, they're not keeping him, they're coming back and doing another round of auditions. I put you on the list.
Speaker 3:What's the difference between like just give people a real quick difference of like playing metal or punk rock? What would that difference?
Speaker 1:be. As I found out, there wasn't that much of a difference, but I just I was unfamiliar with it because it just was never my thing. Where I grew up we had top 40 radio or if you were in the right part of town you could pick up the rock station from Rochester an hour away. But there really wasn't a lot. And so MTV was a big deal because that's where I was exposed to so many different artists, and especially in the early to mid 80s they needed content. So if you had a band and you made a video, they were going to play it right. So you, you saw all kinds of stuff, but you didn't really see any punk rock and stuff, so I just was never exposed to it, it wasn't my thing.
Speaker 1:But then once so the band comes back off the road and puts their gear in their room and I just snuck in and stole their live cd because I didn't have any money to go. You know, buy anything like all right, well, I'll just learn the whole live record to get a feel for what the band is. And then, you know, for the next week they were auditioning drummers all day long and everybody had the same, you know, the fast song and the slower song, and so I got to sit and listen to everybody else's auditions and kind of see where they were doing good and where they weren't, and but by the time they got to me they were pretty burnt out. And then they were like, oh cool, the guy that scrubs the toilets and parks the cars wants to play Like we are scraping bottom.
Speaker 1:And so I was just kind of like, hey, you guys have been playing the same songs all week. Do you want to play something different? And they kind of perked up like oh, you're smart.
Speaker 1:And I said, oh, I know your whole live record. And so one guitar player just launched into one of the songs and we just jumped in and then they were excited and they had new energy which gave me, you know, a leg up. And it's just like, wasn't it an advantage that I was sitting there and I was the guy that worked there, for sure, but why wouldn't you use that, you know, to to your advantage? So, you know, got that gig and, um, just kind of spiraled from there. Like, like you know, from face to face, I started playing with a band called Saves the Day and then we ended up in like one of the final bidding wars of LA of, you know, before Napster and everything you know, so we ended up on DreamWorks with them and from that I just kind of, you know, played with a lot of other bands.
Speaker 1:Alkaline Trio worked with Rob Halford from Judas Priest on his solo record Awesome and ended up touring with Devo at one point my Chemical Romance. So it's just kind of you know, when you start doing one thing you meet somebody and I mean you guys know the drill, it kind of spirals down to, you know, other opportunities. That's incredible that's awesome.
Speaker 3:Well, let's go to it then. So you I assume soon after that tell us how you got the offspring gig.
Speaker 1:And what year is this? Yeah, like offspring when I started playing with them in 2007. Okay, so the offspring.
Speaker 3:I mean, oh yeah, for some people that don't know, like guess we're old and there might be people listening that might not quite know who the Offspring is. But I don't even know how many records, but it's got to be 40, 50 million records, yeah, about 35 million, I think Okay so huge band, big hits. How did that gig come about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll go from there. That that gig, it was a funny story because I'd left my previous band, saves the day, because it just got to be where the drama outweighed the enjoyment of the music. And you know, and when I left that I had been at that one point there was an overlap where I was playing in face-to-face and saves the day at the same time for two years and so I never was home, I was always off the road like I had no personal life whatever. And so, um, when the saves the day thing fell apart, I was really burnt out on punk rock and everything. I just said I'm not gonna, I'm not doing this anymore. And my wife's like, yeah, yeah, take, take a week off. You know, calm down.
Speaker 1:And uh, so I got called for this other band that was more of like a, a higher profile heavy metal thing, and I was like, oh great, that sounds awesome, I'm going to do that. And my best friend is a guitar tech to the stars, like he worked for Prince and Angus Young, richie Sample, everybody. That's like he just knows everyone. He heard what I was going to do and he called up and he's like, absolutely not, you're not joining that band. He's like I know this person in this camp and this and that, and he's like you think your last band was crazy, like the singer from this band just married their therapist. You are not Circumstances.
Speaker 4:And I was like well, fine, I don't want to play music anymore anyway.
Speaker 1:And so, and then I get a call in, you know, from first first person comes at me and says hey offspring's looking for a drummer. You know, I gave him your name and I was like not interested, don't care. And uh, you know punk rock and I don't want it. And then a couple weeks later, came at me from a second person, was like hey offspring's looking for a drummer, your name, your name, keeps coming up. You know, you should give him a call. And I I was like I don't, I don't want to not doing it.
Speaker 1:And then, finally, uh, a third person a couple of weeks later calls up again and it's like hey offspring, still looking for a drummer, they can't find the right person. And so at this point my wife was like look, just, you know, I'm tired of watching you mope around like go, go get the job and then decide if you want it or not. And I was like, all right, I can't, can't argue with that. So I went down. Um, you know, the first audition was just like a cattle call, where their manager and a and a video camera and everybody, again everybody played two songs, a fast song and a slow song.
Speaker 1:And so you know I did that and I was living in Northern California at the time. I wasn't in LA anymore. My wife is from Chico and so I was flying down to do this audition and I flew back up and then I get a call like hey, they saw your tape. They want you to come back next week play the same two songs with the band. So I fly back down next week, meet the guys in the band, play the two songs, and I was like, all right, this feels, this feels interesting, it's all right. And then the next week they had me come back and play four more different songs this time. And then when I come down to there I'm hearing other drummers in there. Some people are playing the first two songs, some are on the second set of four. So I'm like, oh, all right, these guys are really, you know, taking this seriously, finding the right person.
Speaker 1:And I hear one drummer in there and I was like, oh wow, this guy's good. Like the slow song was was solid. And I was like, oh damn, that's, that's rad. And then he gets to the fast song and I was like, huh, not his thing, but still still really good. And the door opens and it's my old roommate, ray Luzier, and he looks at me and he goes oh, of course you're here, oh my god. And then he gets the Korn gig like a week later, which was funny. He's a badass, he's insane. Yeah, he's so good. So go through the whole process, end up getting the job, and for a while I wasn't a huge fan of the band or anything, but as drummers and stuff we're brought in, my job is to come into a situation and elevate the band, to be better and you gotta drive the bus.
Speaker 1:That's it, yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 1:So it's like, whatever the gig was, whether it was face to face or saves a day, or rob halford or whoever I come in. You know I'm supposed to make the band better, or I shouldn't be there, right? And so for me it was like all right, I can get along with everybody, I can play this music, it's no problem. You know, it was very, very stick to the script, like the. The person that got me the that I finally listened to and took the audition Um, she had called me when I was on my way to the airport to go down. She's like hey, just a heads up. You know, the singer of the band writes all the parts for all the songs, like every, every piece of the music is very important.
Speaker 1:Like don't go off the reservation, stick to the script, which was a great little tip to to get going in there. So it's like okay, cool, don't you know it? Here's your script, you can do do it and you know.
Speaker 1:so for a lot of years that worked. I didn't plan on staying that long, I didn't, you know, it was just kind of like all right, well, let's get back on the horse it was just a gig for you it was just a gig, but then, you know, my wife and I had a second daughter and so then it became more of like okay, well, now we're in a different situation.
Speaker 1:So, you know, I I probably stayed there longer than I intended, but it was. You know, it was a great gig. 14 years, 14 years, yeah, and, like I said, everything was great until it wasn't and uh, you know, that's, that's the thing when you're brought into a band, especially a juggernaut like that, like you know, that has sold 35 million records. I, I didn't sell 35 million records, they did. So I'm there playing the drums.
Speaker 5:But you played on what? Two or three albums.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the last two albums that I was there, right, yeah, and you know, but still it was not a creative endeavor, it was very much. Here's your, it's like being an actor. Here's your lines today. Play those lines. Okay, great, which was fine. Again, you know, I got paid really well to do it and and, and you know you, you deal with the ups and downs of any, any gig, any situation, especially as, as a drummer, we're, you know, we're the bottom of the ladder.
Speaker 5:you know we are, we're used to I don't know, I don't know, man, I play bass. I might, I might be one below you, you know fair enough.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to argue with the bass, I would have thought it would be bass too.
Speaker 7:Just as a guess, Let me rephrase that Christmas K-Lo's out.
Speaker 1:Managers hate drummers.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that could be, what's that about?
Speaker 1:Yeah well, managers hate everyone. They'll find the one person in the band that they think is important and everyone else doesn't matter. They find the cash master first. Well, I mean, everybody's replaceable is really yeah, the managers don't understand a good drummer versus a bad drummer they have no musical background, they have no skills whatsoever. They're just there to rob people you're taking attention away from what's really important so, um, yeah, and like I said, for 14 years everything was fine, and then, you know, covet hits, everyone's coming off the road.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I want to talk till it wasn't.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about till it wasn't so you know, 2020 comes and goes, everyone's off the road. We were in South America when everything hit.
Speaker 3:Okay, I was going to ask you this because I'm telling you, I remember, whenever it was March 2020, right. Yeah, mid-march we were going, I forget. You know we were touring at that point. And where are we going? Wisconsin or something, yeah.
Speaker 5:A little run up there. Yeah, I think we're in wisconsin right when it. We're in that we were at the venue. Yeah, I remember saying before we left for that week's run.
Speaker 3:You know country, we do it different than rock. It's like you know we're weekend warriors, basically. But um, she was like they're gonna cancel those shows. I'm like no, they're not. Well, I mean we're programmed as musicians. I mean you're, we're playing, we're playing the gig we're playing.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we're doing the gig. So we went to my deathbed you, so you know my knees buckling.
Speaker 3:Believe me, we do have to talk about that because I think people don't understand that. But we went to wisconsin, we went out, we were working out actually, we were playing pickleball that day and they come to us very intense game the old man sport that's when we're getting ready for my homes and kelsey by the way, we'll edit that out yeah, headbands, wristbands anyway they come to us and say show's canceled, and then the weekend's canceled, and then, oh, the year's canceled. But so where were you when it went all that?
Speaker 1:we're in south america. We had had headed down for we were supposed to be there about two and a half weeks and my wife is saying she's like you guys really going down there, like there's this thing happening no one knows what's going on.
Speaker 1:And she's like you're seriously going to go to South America. And I'm like I don't have a say here. Yeah, it's not like I get to go. Hey, fellas, I don't think this is a good idea. It's just like I have zero power. I have zero power. I have as much power in that band now as I did when I was there. So, yeah, I'm like, well, they say it's going to happen, we're going to go. So we get down there and the first show, wherever we were I think Columbia canceled. And so we move on to Chile and we get into Chile and the show went on and we're playing this hockey arena kind of thing. There's probably like 6 000 people there all sweating all over each other and we're all just kind of like god, this feels wrong, but what can you do? Because you're in a game of chicken with promoters and stuff. Right, it's like if we cancel, then right you know everything's on you.
Speaker 1:So it was really kind of waiting it out and we were supposed to, after that show, go to Brazil. And you know, we had like three or four shows there and the Brazilian promoter was like no, we're not canceling, you know, keep coming and I. But while we were on stage in Chile they worked something out and promoter was finally like, okay, yeah, we got to cancel. And then we, you know, took off and flew home from there. If we had gone to brazil, they locked down so hard that we would have been stuck there for like you guys fly back private, or was it not?
Speaker 1:just commercial. We just got, got out and got home as as fast as we could, and then you know and then you were locked down, or then we were all locked down right, yeah, because it was like oh, we're gonna be off this month, but we're still going to australia at the end of next month so I remember this right.
Speaker 6:Yeah, we were on a plane when it got shut down. Oh, you guys were. Oh yeah, we landed at dallas, fort worth, coming back from palm springs, and we, when we got off the plane and walked in the airport, there was nobody in the airport. It's one of the most, it's one of the busiest airports in the world yeah, because we were coming back and it was like, oh my god, did the lord come back? I mean seriously it seriously.
Speaker 2:it was that empty, Did he?
Speaker 6:forgive me, yeah, no, and we barely made it home before they shut down flights and stuff.
Speaker 3:But I remember that and it's interesting because, yeah, I was like, okay that weekend shows got canceled, we'll go back the next weekend or next month Summer at the latest and that wasn't the case. We went obviously to full lockdown. So I guess where are we living at the time? Was it in?
Speaker 1:LA, no, here, yeah, we've been in Franklin since 2011.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, yep, okay, so give us the story of what happened then. So you obviously took, I assume, 2020 off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 2020 was just. You know, we tried to do. I think I flew out to later in the summer, when everybody lightened up a little bit.
Speaker 1:I flew out to like do some recording and we did like a christmas song, shot, a video, like just trying to have do something to do for fans or for the band, just to kind of keep some momentum, and and we had been finishing a new record throughout the whole process that was supposed to come out in 2020, of course, but then it gets pushed back. So, yeah, 2020 was a wash, like really nothing happening there, and then 2021 starts, and then we've got-.
Speaker 3:And everybody's starting to get their tours back going Right, but with stipulations, right?
Speaker 1:well, that's the the problem. Like we've terrorized everyone to stay in their home and don't don't touch another human for a year, yeah, but now we would all like them to come back out and buy tickets and t-shirts and clap for us. How do we? How do we unring the bell? So, you know, the, the powers that be the live nation and the other promoters and whatever, come up with the concept of the fully vaccinated tour, right, which is, you know, the vaccine's rolled out. It's a great savior to everything. Everything's going to be fine, everyone has to get it and then we can all go back to work. And you know, for me, I have a history of bad reactions to vaccines, so I'm already not looking at this in a good way. I'm like all right?
Speaker 3:did I read that you had an autoimmune disorder? Is that?
Speaker 1:right, yeah, I finally got diagnosed with guillain-barre syndrome okay and uh, because it like every time, even when I was a kid, every time I would get vaccinated. I had you know major problems of you know temporary paralysis limbs shutting down like that and it it's.
Speaker 1:You know, as I got older, like the thankfully, you know, I was always able to kind of turn it's. You know, as I got older, like the thankfully, you know, I was always able to kind of turn it around with, you know, diet things and lifestyle changes and, and you know, keep it. You know, at least I knew what caused it. So then it was like, all right, well, I can't do this anymore because you know, my doctor says you know, hey, you're getting older. Every time this happens it's taking longer to bounce back. Eventually it's not going to bounce back. So for me it was just a no, a no go. And then watching, you know, my wife and I watched the clinical trials really carefully and the little information that they put out. We devoured it and, um the, you know, we found out pretty quickly they didn't have anyone with any autoimmune conditions in the trials. It was only perfectly healthy people. So there's nobody like me in there getting this tested. And I was open to it, like this mRNA is a new technology, maybe this will be different for me. I was actually like, ok, at least they're doing something new, maybe that'll work.
Speaker 1:And while we waited for real-world data. We just kind of kept our eye on things and I tried to kind of kick the can down the road as far as I could. And uh, you know, as the data started coming in, it was worse than we thought. Like for somebody in my position it wasn't. You know, one of the first things that was popping up was Guillain-Barre syndrome with people and I was like, all right, well, this isn't an option for me.
Speaker 1:And you know, and we had pulled she pulled a screen grab from the FDA website in January of 2021. I still have it somewhere and you know, we sent it to all the smartest people that we knew and basically it said while we are hopeful that the COVID-19 vaccines will stop transmission, they were not tested for that. And we, you know, we have no idea long-term what that's going's gonna, how that's gonna work. But here they are on television going oh, it's 100 effective, it's gonna, it's gonna change everything and and and it's perfectly safe and effective. But I'm like, well, over here where you have to say, you're saying where is that?
Speaker 1:like on the cdc yeah it was on the fda's website. It was not there long oh really, they're removing that yeah, my wife took a screen grab of it and we still have it, wow, and I've shared it online before and had people go. That's a fake screen grab. Who's got time in their day to make a fake FD?
Speaker 7:I'm sorry. While you and your wife were doing that research, were you passing any of that along to your buddies in the band or anybody like that, saying hey, before we have to be told this, just I want to put this on your radar. Were you already doing that?
Speaker 1:yeah, everybody. It was kind of this unspoken thing. Everybody knew that I was not going to be all right with this, but you know, I think they were waiting to see what happened, as much as I did. And you know, once the live nation thing came down and they were like, hey, hey, everyone can get back on the road If we do this thing, everyone's got to have their paperwork and stuff. And you know, I just figured that we would have some hard conversations, but you know I'm I'm talking to everybody that I can.
Speaker 1:Anybody in other bands, you know, people with you know, uh, medical conditions like mine that were, you know, getting medical exemptions from their doctor. I had a medical exemption from my doctor, it didn't matter, you know, no one, no one cared, it wasn't accepted, you know. But we, we head into summer of 2021. We've got a tour coming up starting in the fall and, um, you know, I get a call from there and I I'd been going out to la all year like we were releasing an album, we were doing promotion, filming videos and whatever. And you know, everybody's there at the rehearsal or with a mask on.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say what were the protocols during that, because I remember it was massive protocols, yeah because I'm coming from tennessee, where it wasn't.
Speaker 1:It was pretty laid back by early 21, right, like it was like, hey, live your life, make your choices. And you out there, and it was like a war zone, like nobody on on the streets, people driving alone in their cars with a mask on. You had to show a Vax guard to get in anywhere. Yeah, from what I remember, it was getting to that point out there. And so by summer, you know, I thought we were going to have a pretty good discussion, because I talked to enough people in other bands that were like, oh yeah, we, you know so-and-so's got a medical exemption. It's fine, we're, we're going out anyway, it doesn't matter, like you know. So I'm like, okay, cool, there's a way to do this. And then I get a phone call from the band's manager out of nowhere. That was just like I said. I'm a drummer, I'm used to being treated less than stellar by managers and and how long has this manager um been with the band?
Speaker 1:he was new with the band. He'd only been with them since covet hit oh, really yeah so I didn't have a lot of history with this guy and um and so, yeah, he chose to come at me like a flamethrower and just abs. Like I've I've gotten crappy phone calls before. This was the most abusive um threatening call I've ever had in my entire career.
Speaker 3:I don't even understand that. What did he say?
Speaker 1:He just basically laid it out in no uncertain terms. I tried to say I've got a medical exemption. I don't care about your medical exemption, just yelling cutting me off. It wasn't a conversation trying to tell me that for the greater good, everyone's got to do this, and I'm just like that's not a good enough reason for me. You're not making an argument, you're just making threats and yelling at me. So it basically came down to he made it clear that I was either to get vaccinated or I'd be replaced, and it was also floated out by one of the other guys about hey well, just get you some paperwork, you know something like that, because there was people getting fake cards did you think about?
Speaker 1:that, believe me, I, I considered everything I'm, and you know it was nerve-wracking because it's like, oh, not just like I might lose my job here, but I might be blacklisted from doing anything else ever right, because that's a. Yeah, you were like the worst thing you could have been called at that time was an anti-vaxxer, especially with these things rolling out, yes, you were called a murderer.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, oh, I was called a.
Speaker 6:Nazi.
Speaker 1:I'm just like a fascist. I'm like I don't think you know what that word means.
Speaker 5:It's really insane to you talk about the lockdowns. You talk about looking at it.
Speaker 3:Now it's like oh my god yeah, you think of stuff that happens in other countries, but it's crazy. Yeah, yeah you would think.
Speaker 1:And you know it got perspective a couple years later, yeah and stuff. But so at the time it was, you know, the phone call was so shocking, and so I wrote to the two guys in the band that were my boss and I laid out the phone call and how I didn't appreciate it, and here's all the reasons why I don't want to do this and why I'm not able to do this. And it didn't matter. I tried to talk to them about him and you know I said I'm like hey, you might fire me over this, but you should know this guy is not representing you well, and if he's treating me like this, he's treating your crew even worse.
Speaker 5:Did you have a?
Speaker 1:conversation like a long phone call. I tried. When I brought that up I was told we're not going to speak to that. That's not the concern right now. He's not the concern. This, you know, your refusal to do this is the concern. And so things deteriorated pretty rapidly after that and you know, less than a week later I found it was like like all communication stopped and you know, I had a flight in a hotel and stuff on hold to go to rehearsal. And a week later I checked my southwest app and that's how I found out I was replaced because my flight was canceled.
Speaker 1:My hotel was gone and they didn't even actually call you to say you were my, yeah, my, um, my access to the band calendar was revoked like everything just gone. And you know, and it was, it was brutal because it wasn't just me, it was. You know, it was my family. Like our wives were friends, our kids grew up together.
Speaker 3:People don't realize that, right. I mean, obviously we can speak to this. Like you know, we say our road family. In a way, it's actually your family and your kids grow up together. Your wives are best friends. You become best friends with the people in the band and to have them like ghost, you, I can't even imagine that.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking of the guys on our band.
Speaker 3:Tully, does that to me, bro. What happened?
Speaker 5:Crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was brutal and even the process of when all this is happening in a matter of days. I was just a nervous wreck and my kids had to watch me on the floor having a panic attack oh man, I'm just like I don't know what we're gonna do as a family. Like you know, my wife yeah, I've raised our girls, homeschooled them all the way through. Like you know, I'm the the breadwinner, I'm the one here and I'm like holy. You know, it's really.
Speaker 5:We are just so people know in this business that that's, that's really shitty to have 14 years in um, and you do, which is, which is a long time, um, and and you play all these shows together and you make music and you go through all these you know great times together and then you know to just get kind of ghosted. And then did they offer I mean that any kind of severance or any kind of?
Speaker 1:no no oh my gosh, are you kidding me that? That doesn't, that doesn't know? It was yeah, after 14 years, it was just like are you going to do what we want?
Speaker 1:no, moving on and so, and for me it was. It was, you know I I turned down the fake card because I'm like, look, I'm not going to lie about this, I'm not going to be too. And I know plenty of people that took fake cards, like some some really close friends of mine. I don't have any judgment how anybody navigated this situation. The whole world was put in an impossibly shitty situation. There was no good way out of it. So, whatever anybody had to do, good on him. But for me I couldn't do it. Like I didn't want to put my kids into this position where they had to lie for me. I didn't want to put my wife there and I just to me, it was like, well, if, like, I don't think this is right and if I'm taking a fake card, I'm going along with it. I'm, I'm part of the problem. And then I lose my voice, like I can't say anything here, I can't speak about it. So you know I wouldn't take the card. And you know, after everything happened, you know I didn't say anything for like a month, Like I sat on it because I'm like you know, oh, maybe they'll come around, maybe something will change. Let's give it some time. Like this got heated, we'll let it cool down. And it didn't you know.
Speaker 1:And it's like once I saw you know, news trickles back and it's like, oh so, and so is you know, they brought this person in to replace you. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. I figured that's who they would get. But so finally, I was like you know, this isn't right. I'm gonna put out a statement, I'm gonna say my piece because, you know, I, I know how. I was there long enough to know how they operate and they weren't gonna to make any announcement. You know the same when they fired the original bass player, they made no announcement or anything. And because it was like, well, it's only a story if we make it one. So it's like, okay, well, I know how they're going to handle this. I'm not just going to whimper away and and hide like I'm going to say something, because it's it was bigger than than the band or my job or anything.
Speaker 1:for me it was like my, you know, my girls were doing musical theater at the time and and that community was brutal on mandating and forcing things and testing and you got to have your cards and stuff and and so I was just like all right, if to me at this point, when, when, and you guys and you guys, you guys all have kids.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. So yeah, when your kids get to be teenagers, they stop listening to you, right, but they're always watching and they, they observe and they take in how you handle things so what what they do.
Speaker 1:And so for me, I was like, all right if, if the only audience I have with this statement is my two kids, that's it, that's my goal. Show them this is important enough that I'm going to set my career on fire over it. This shouldn't be happening. Nobody should be put in this position and that there's no opportunity or job or anything that's worth you giving up part of yourself and knowing you know your own autonomy, knowing this is wrong, like I don't, I can't set an example to you that that that's okay to do, cause you know I don't want them going through the world going. Well, dad caved on that thing, so I guess I can do this Right. It was like this is important enough that let's, let's make that, you know, make that point to them.
Speaker 1:And so we wrote up a statement and put it out, and I didn't expect it to be a big deal, because, again, that's the drummer from some band who cares, right. But I think it hit a nerve with people because so many people felt like me, if you didn't go along with this, you were told you were the only one that felt that way and you know. So I just kind of figured well, maybe there's somebody else out there that needs to hear this as well. So we, you know, put a statement out and made sure to point out, like, while me turning this down, was my issue was medical related. You know, no is a complete sentence. Nobody should have to do this if they don't want to. You don't need an excuse, you don't need it and you know, and also to show.
Speaker 1:A big part of the push for this was people saying, oh, oh well, we're so good, you know we're. Everyone's got to get it for the people who medically can't. And you know, I was living proof that it didn't matter. Even if you had a medical exemption, it didn't count. No one, it wasn't accepted. It was just like no, we're just saying this, but you know you need to get it too, and so it was really frustrating to be in that world. So we wanted to make a point of you know, everyone should have a choice here. There should be informed consent here. I don't feel that there is, and you know I expected a firing squad. Like I just figured like, wow, I've already set my career on fire. And now the you know the internet's gonna either largely on and not care or we're just going to get hit with a flamethrower. And um, crazy thing was is we'd got a groundswell of support. Like I started getting messages from people all around the world going oh my God, got a groundswell of support. Like I started getting messages from people all around the world going oh my God, thank you for saying something.
Speaker 1:I thought I was the only person that felt like this. I thought I was the only person who was alone, or people saying thank you for writing. You know, something measured and clear like this that I can share with my family or my friends who don't understand why I don't want to do this and you know. So it just kind of turned into this, this thing, where I became a weird kind of lighthouse for people who didn't want to get on board with the narrative that was being pushed. And then I started getting messages from all kinds of people like way, way bigger platforms than my little piddly platform going hey. And some people are like how's it going for you? Cause I'm thinking of saying something, but you know, how broke are you?
Speaker 1:It's going to be. And it's just like what I, what I tell people is like you know, when the cancel mob comes for you, it burns so hot and fast because they wake up every day going all right, who are we mad at today? No doubt, and I'm like, just stand your ground, don't apologize, don't clarify, and that was the thing. I put my statement out and I clarified nothing. I said nothing else. I got out of the way because I did not expect it to take off. I didn't expect.
Speaker 1:And then we had CNN, msnbc, fox News hounding me through emails. They had emails I haven't used in 10 years. They were calling my phone, my wife's phone, like these people were able to get you so many different ways and I was just like I don't want to talk to anybody. That's not what this was for, mostly, you know. Again, trying to just set an example for my kids. But also the point of the statement was you know, the band had a tour coming. They had a show in nashville. I had people hitting me up for tickets to these shows that I know I'm not going to be at Right how many times do I want to have to have this long conversation about what happened?
Speaker 1:Can I just tell it once and like even with my family, like my brother knew what was going on and my best friend knew what was going on, and but the rest of my family did not. So when they all, unfortunately, found out from my statement, like everybody else but it was like, well, this is the only way I can do it, because I can't have this conversation 500 times and I also have to say something, because people are wanting tickets and passes and I'm not going to be around. So it was a really strange kind of time and I didn't want to talk to anybody. So we turned everything down. Tucker Carlson, megyn Kelly, somebody at CNN's morning show was relentless, just kept bombarding me and my wife constantly and it felt really, really strange and I was just like I didn't trust that anybody had my best interest at heart.
Speaker 3:Well, they didn't Right, let's be, honest, I didn't.
Speaker 1:It was like oh, you stuck your head up. We're here to chop it off and make an example of you and I was like, all right, well, I'm not going to allow that. So I said what I said and we stayed out of it, and then out of it, and then I had to, you know, kind of start piecing my life back together. Because now you're like, okay, well, what's next? Because, like, does anybody need an unvaccinated?
Speaker 5:but you brought up a good point which I don't think people realize as well. Like so, you met your daughters for theater, you know. So that time my son was on a show on nbc, oh wow. And they, and they said well, you know, basically he had to get vaccinated, yeah, and as a parent, you're sitting there saying, okay, um, yeah you're trying to navigate those waters.
Speaker 5:we don't want to cost him because if you, if you're in in in sag, yeah, so you, you had to get vaccinated or you couldn't work. And we're saying, okay, well, it's his first season on this show, do we? What is? How do we do this Like, is it? Do we cost him his job, you know? And so he got the vaccine and looking back on it, you know, it's like, wow, what a position.
Speaker 5:Yeah, they put everybody in I know, and you're talking about your kids and it's like the same thing, it's like you're making decisions. Yeah, at that time he was uh what? 15, 16 at that, at that point, you know. So, um, that's just crazy to think about the position that everybody was in and you're having to choose, you know, providing for your family, yeah, you know, and it's uh, like I said, it feels weird to talk about it like this, because it's like it's a.
Speaker 3:It's really strange. Um, listen, this is, this is we're opening pandora's box here and we're gonna get, uh, to the back side of this. We do have to take a break. Hey, don't skip through this. Listen to a word from our sponsor.
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Speaker 6:I want to be more like Pete. I wish I was more mild-mannered like Pete.
Speaker 3:And that's a great way to come back on. You know, I think what we're going to do. Sometimes we need to like compile our break moments, because there's always like a five minute where we say we're going to take a break and then we just kind of talk during that. We need to put that on a paywall.
Speaker 7:Yeah, that's a subscription, subscription only Jim get on that Very Christmas.
Speaker 5:Welcome to the paywall. Yeah, exactly 2025, starting January.
Speaker 3:But you guys just blew my mind. You guys just blew my mind because I didn't know this. First of all, we were talking about how odd it is that a punk rock band, you know, which, like, in theory, is supposed to be anti-establishment, like has to. You know, you have to go with the man all the time. But tell me they changed the lyrics to the song Tully. Or somebody, pete, give me something.
Speaker 1:They did. They made a little video clip and they changed the. You got to keep them separated, so you got to go get vaccinated.
Speaker 6:That is not true, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5:It's true, I'm sorry, it's true, I read that and I was it actually.
Speaker 3:Was it like a jingle they?
Speaker 1:did for commercial.
Speaker 3:It was just something they tweeted out or Facebooked or something I don't know. You got to get them vaccinated.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I wonder how they feel about that now. Surely they can't be proud of that still.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the question. Everybody's got perspective. This all went down three and a half years ago. Right, I have perspective on this. I got to think at some point.
Speaker 3:You look at that and you go, yeah, okay, we got that wrong.
Speaker 1:Or have they? I don't know. I mean, no one's reached out to me. Like I said, my door is always open.
Speaker 2:Like I.
Speaker 1:I don't, I I never took it personally, even even you know things that were personal, like personal, like oh, we're just going to cut you and your family off entirely, like you know where a week before everyone was family and you know. But it's like you find out that your family, uh, as long as you are doing what you're told, and the first time, you say no and that that was the thing. Like as a drummer, we eat copious amounts of shit you gave them 14 years right.
Speaker 3:Bombastic brilliance, oh I love that bombastic. Wow, I'm telling well he did, he gave him 14 years of it and and nothing I mean nothing, yeah, well, that's the thing I like to say.
Speaker 1:I've I ate every plate of shit I was served for 14 years. The first one that I sent back to the kitchen I was gone, like that was it. It was just like you know, are you going to do what we want or not? Here's the thing.
Speaker 5:It's one thing that you know if they've got a really strong feeling about this. It was a weird time you know, I give people a little bit of grace when it first happened.
Speaker 6:I get a little bit.
Speaker 2:Because, I was Very little.
Speaker 6:No no, we're not going to lie. We were all freaked out when it first happened. No one really knew.
Speaker 5:We were all scared the point is, even if that's the stance they took and you got the right to make your stance, it seems like the way you call you and say man, we're really concerned about this. Is there a way around this? What can we do? Because we love you and love what you've done for us, but we, we're really passionate about this. You're passionate about how can we you know what this? I don't think it was ideological for them at all.
Speaker 1:Maybe maybe for one of them who's who's very political online and was very on board with the narrative and you know, if you didn't believe that, you were probably crazy. And the other guy, I think I think it was really ultimately just boiled down to business was like they wanted to get back to work making money. I needed to get back to work. We'd all been off tour for well over a year.
Speaker 1:At this point, like you know, I my thing wasn't, you know, trying to cause problems. I should have been able to do my job, um, without going through some medical procedure that I did not need or want and that there wasn't even a real conversation or anything. It was just an unwillingness to look at opposite, opposite things or even to understand how much of the stuff they were talking about was really going to be enforced. Like you know, once they got back on the road, they're playing festivals and stuff, and I got friends from other bands calling me up going why are you not here? We're playing this festival with your old band. None of us are vaccinated, no one gives a shit, and I'm like.
Speaker 1:I know that and you know that, but I it was like talking to a brick wall.
Speaker 1:You couldn't get through. It was just like Nope, nope, nope, this is we, it has to be this, or you know, or we'll have to get somebody else. And you know, so I, I'd like to think, three years later, maybe things have changed, but I, you know, I don't it for me to stay creative and to stay sane, like I don't follow anything the band does, like I just kind of move on. My wife will look in on it to make sure that we don't need to. You know, correct something that somebody has said wrong and make a clarification. But a couple weeks ago I got bombarded online. Everybody was sending me this clip and one of them went on Bert Kreischer podcast and Bert had asked them what does it mean to be punk? And this was the guitar player and he, boldface, answers Well, being punk means pushing back against authority, like if someone tells you you have to do this thing, you say why should I?
Speaker 1:have to do it and I'm like my jaws on the floor because I'm like kidding me language. Like you know, when I said those things, I was called a lot of things and none of them was punk no yeah you know that blows my mind, yeah, I, so I'm still just kind of like all right.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess, if you're in the driver's seat of everything and you're in the position of power, you're not going to have self-reflection. You're going to justify, you're going to find a way to justify why what you did was right at the time and you don't have to have self-reflection. You're going to justify, you're going to find a way to justify why what you did was right at the time and you don't have to feel bad about it, unless it's just a complete break from reality and he's rewritten history in his own mind Sounds like it Not here to speculate that, but Sorry, when I first was reading your story and everything I was wondering if it was.
Speaker 7:I did think about the political angle, you know thinking I wonder if they thought you're a conservative, you know anti-vaxxer and like you know something like that. But then I also wonder if it was more simple than that, that that manager, especially being new, and then the two band members, was it? Just they thought, ah it, jump through this hoop, this hoop, just to bring him, let's just get somebody else. What might have been more simple? They're just lazy, like predetermined, like the manager just says I don't want to deal with that, wouldn't be easier, just to get another drummer, probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I just wonder if that was, if that was the case, I would imagine, like I said, I I don't think it was personal, I think it was just business, but they were. I think also they were probably confused because you know, I'm in a what do you call it? A backup position, a servant's position. As the drummer of this band for all these years, you know I complied with a lot of crap, you know that I didn't enjoy or whatever, but you go along with it. So I think they just expected that that trend would continue. And when they finally came up against something where it's like, hey, I physically can't do this, I'm not going to, I think they were confused as to, like, why isn't he just doing what we want, like this is, this has been the, the routine, and right and I just hate it and I'm and wouldn't expect you to comment on, but it just you know from our experience.
Speaker 3:I just hate that you're on the road that long with your family and nobody got your back that bothers me yeah that really bothers me.
Speaker 7:Well, and how many times like, like, like these guys and you with, with the guys in your band after shows, were you not just, you know, rocking drinks and stuff, said, brother, so we die, man, we're family back. Isn't this great say, we're bright and there's stuff said, brother, so we die, man, we're family back. Isn't this great say? We're all said hello you know, what? Hey guys, remember me, I'm your brother.
Speaker 5:You know what's funny, though so when we back on the road, we tour a live nation as well, they do the tours. And it's when we got back on the road it was interesting, um, because it was split down, mean we had a lot of guys in the crew who were wearing five, six masks around. Then you have us who were just out. I mean, do we? Well, I got COVID, yeah.
Speaker 3:So who has it?
Speaker 5:now.
Speaker 2:Right now. Who has it now?
Speaker 5:Well, no it's a crazy story. You know, we've been a band 29 years or whatever and, like I said, some of the crew guys, tour manager and stuff, you know Kurt got COVID and we knew he did and they made him take a test. He's got COVID and our tour manager at the time, who was kind of filling in for that tour, was like well, okay, well, Kurt's got to go to the hotel and we're going to get him a van and we're going to bus him a van and we're going to bust him from scranton to. Well, first way they were going to cancel the show.
Speaker 3:They were going to cancel the show, which that's what our good luck with that. People were saying that did not happen. Yeah, you know, but luckily we had jason who's. Yeah, you know, we had somebody in charge that wasn't going to go for that well, and as long as you say six feet apart, it's impossible to get it.
Speaker 7:So yeah, but let me tell you this it got really. Let me tell you this it was.
Speaker 3:It was a major deal. It was a major deal and it would. It caused strife within the organization because I had covid. But kind of back to our point before, like we're from the generation right that it doesn't matter what happens, you are playing the show that you don't get to say I'm sick well, and then or people, for that matter, when we had clover, their tour manager at the time is saying, well, kurt, uh can't ride the bus.
Speaker 5:Well, it totally goes. I said, well, kurt's riding the bus, so you know no shit, yeah, I said you don't have any say in the situation.
Speaker 5:It's a little bit different situation because the way it's set up for us, kurt's going to ride the bus. What are you talking about? Anyway, it was a big thing. We played the show. His tech's got seven masks on and a hazmat suit and our front of house guy at the time hazmat suit you know, and our front of house guy at the time we have a sound check on our front of house guy you know, amphitheater, right, yeah, you're 30 yards double masked out there, all by himself, all by himself.
Speaker 5:But it was funny how you know to get to back to your story and stuff, but it's funny how it split, how it was split down the middle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it got weird, crazy.
Speaker 5:It divided people, it divided people and it was really hard to work in the creative world, because in the creative world you had a lot of people who were really far left. Yeah, and then you didn't. You had people over here and it was uh but did you notice how, when?
Speaker 3:okay, so we start the tours back up. You know, a lot of people wanted the bands and crews to be vaccinated, but hey, they didn't. The fans didn't have to be. Maybe the Foo Fighters did that for a little while where?
Speaker 2:you had to show a card, but they quickly realized that hold on we're losing fans that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you put it on the crowd. Bad for business. Bad for business, right.
Speaker 3:They'd say, oh, we're trying to protect the people, they're not trying to protect the people, they're trying to protect the money that's coming in. No, and let's just call it what it is right, because on stage, if you want to say that six feet apart is actually a thing which we now know what it is, or wasn't?
Speaker 3:dr fauci said but yeah, he did, he did everyone who just sat down right but the funny thing is is like yeah, god, we're on this huge stage, we're fine, but the crowd who they didn't really care about, if they're vaccinated?
Speaker 4:or whatever they're packed in there?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, no, they're. They're out there, but they need those tickets, man, like there's a magic curtain between the I do have a covet question for all you guys.
Speaker 5:Okay, what is this one still blows my mind. I need help. I'm asking for help. Back in the craziness, coffee shops opened up or whatever, so you can go. Ouch, you can go. You can take your mask off when you're eating.
Speaker 4:Because that's when you spread the less germs, because the COVID doesn't.
Speaker 1:It respects your meal, it respects the meal, it respects the beverage.
Speaker 5:You're right, I just have a question. You could only have your mask off when you're eating.
Speaker 1:You could eat next to somebody with your mask off airplanes is what was the funny one, so the COVID doesn't go you stand up to go to the bathroom, though COVID doesn't follow you and Fauci's up there talking, or whoever, and we're all murderers.
Speaker 6:And meanwhile, behind them, there's 21 million illegals coming across the border, unvaxxed by the way. Yeah, and they're. I'm like what. What is what is this here? What is this here's?
Speaker 1:how much nonsense yeah, the you know the industry rules were. So, since everyone is coming to me like a lighthouse and sharing their stories and their status and and whatnot, uh, a friend of mine was on one of the really big tours that finally, from the fall of 21, went out and he sent me the backstage protocol email that if you printed it it would have looked like a phone book, right, and in here it was. It was very much like all right, there's four bands on this bill. Each band is its own bubble inside and no one from any band will interact with anyone band or crew with other bands inside your band bubble. There are sub bubbles, the stage right bubble, stage left, like you know, and these. So you had these four or five people that were in your bubble and those were the only people did they call it bubble?
Speaker 5:yes, oh my god to interact with.
Speaker 1:You will all move together through the backstage areas, through the temperature checks, through and all of this nonsense, then, you know, and he's, this guy's on the tour and he goes. Yeah, guess what happens when you know a crew guy, somebody tests positive for covid, and I was like, well, certainly you put them in a hotel for two weeks and quarantine them. And he's like, yeah, no, we put them right on a plane and send them home and we fly somebody else out.
Speaker 3:Cause they don't care about the people on the plane. They don't care.
Speaker 1:It didn't matter, it was about turning the money faucet back on and that's all that mattered. You know me losing my gig, other people you know losing their livelihoods. It was all just nonsense.
Speaker 5:It's also a big power grab.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 5:So once you draw that line in the sand of like, if you don't wear the mask and you don't get quadruple vaxxed, then you don't care about anybody else. And then it became political immediately and it got really ugly. Yeah, I still the other day I was driving to Nashville. The other day I was driving Nashville going to work and I saw a lady in a car with a mask on, with both windows up. I'm like it's over.
Speaker 6:No, it's not, it's over. No, we've got a mask on, we've went through this before.
Speaker 7:The reason that happens is because there might be somebody at red light in front of that person and they have covid and their windows are down and they cough, and then it goes, and then sucks it up through the heater, the ac yep, it's true, just ask john legend.
Speaker 1:So travis kelsey sitting down in the car different than sitting down in a restaurant, and covid knows the difference, so well, yeah, and they got into the whole essential business.
Speaker 5:You said my favorite thing COVID respects the meal yeah. You pay a lot of money for that meal. Yeah, it doesn't want to infect. Get on that fork.
Speaker 1:It's like hey, I can be reasonable, Enjoy your meal. Have a good time.
Speaker 4:I'm going to wait outside.
Speaker 1:Well, since you stand up, I'm coming, I can't.
Speaker 7:And Neil, I don't even know if I told you this, but while we're at it, full disclosure I did get the COVID shot and I got the booster. I only did it once.
Speaker 3:Are you just telling Neil this for the first time? I?
Speaker 2:knew that you knew that, absolutely Okay, I didn't know if I told you.
Speaker 7:And the reason why is because you were talking about, like, fear, you know. So they scare everybody. And the time was thinking, well, we go over there all the time and I'm traveling and stuff, I don't want to bring her something, sure, because you're watching all that. But then the other thing was the fear of losing income, because we'll do corporate shows, just writer shows or whatever, and you fly and stuff. And I thought, well, what's going to happen is they're going to, they're going to say, hey, you can't fly, you know, and and then, but then you have to have two and they're 28 days apart and thinking, you know, you're going to miss you know several thousand dollars which could be.
Speaker 7:You know, there was turning your lights on that month or whatever. So so I went ahead and did it and when you pulled in, it was at the ag center, like we're, you know, talking about here in franklin, and it was military, they're all in military, military, they're dressed, and I thought, wow, I hadn't seen anybody in uniform since I was in uniform a long, long time ago. And you pulled in there and it's like, and it was weird, you know, but I had mixed feelings, like when you got it in there, I was thinking to myself man, I'm putting, what am I putting in here?
Speaker 7:You know, and you called mom after that and I said well, mom, I got the poison racing through my veins for you.
Speaker 3:I love it. I was going to ask is that what this boil is?
Speaker 7:You felt a little bit good.
Speaker 6:No, that's rosacea. No, I've never thought bad about anybody that decided to get the facts. That's the whole point, though.
Speaker 3:Everybody should be able to make their own thing.
Speaker 6:I never judged anybody about anything. I made my own decision about anything. I just I made my own decision. But I never judged any of my friends that got it, because I knew the fear and I felt the fear.
Speaker 3:I just went the other way, but that's the point, is that everybody should be able to make their own decision yeah absolutely, and that was my point In the touring world, though it was a thing. Well, it was heavily pushed.
Speaker 5:It know what to believe. Like you, where it's like still, look, if jason gets covid, the show's canceled, right. You, we talk about being sick. Playing shows the worst thing you can ever imagine as a player, because it's brutal, um, but we're like okay. Well damn, you know, we were kind of made to feel like okay, not by anybody in our camp, but just the overall industry. Well, yeah, because you know, it's coming, industry it's coming from the top if one of us is COVID and we can't play, damn, what are we going to do?
Speaker 3:you're costing millions of dollars.
Speaker 5:You're right it's a tough. It was a tough business to be in and navigate those waters and you navigated it the right way and I hate that you're treated that way, regardless of what their stance was, because you do form.
Speaker 6:I had an easy decision. It was like, I mean, I write here.
Speaker 4:I come upstairs.
Speaker 6:And sometimes I tell people COVID was the best thing that ever happened in my writing career, because I get to Zoom now. There, you go, you know, and I love that morning.
Speaker 7:I don't even have to have pants on. Exactly, neil doesn't like to leave campus very often. I still do it.
Speaker 6:But I totally get when you're you got the higher ups and you're dependent and somebody else is dependent on you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when you got the higher ups and you're dependent and somebody else is dependent on you, and there's millions and millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Totally and again yeah, I wasn't telling anybody what to do.
Speaker 1:It was just like hey, here's why I'm not going to. But a month into their tour, everyone's emailing me. Hey, your band's all got covet. And I was like like I'm not there to blame you know, but it's, I'm just like it's none of my business you didn't text somebody go.
Speaker 7:I don't yeah I know right, yeah well, I will say too, you're a, you're really a big man and a good man to not have because you sit here and very politely tell this story. That would, you know, make a lot of people go over the edge. You know, 14 years, you know, with the band, people who loved you and you love them and the families and everything just to be dismissed like that. You know, like we're expendable and we all, really we, we are for sure, you know it's just not.
Speaker 7:We know we're expendable, we just don't like when it really happens. Well, that was the thing like thing.
Speaker 1:I had haters coming at me online going you're totally replaceable. I'm like yeah, I know that.
Speaker 7:Everybody is.
Speaker 1:No one cares who's playing drums on Pretty Fly. For a white guy, this is a low bar that we're crawling under here. But the point was you just don't treat people like they're expendable garbage when the week before they were family and we're all in it together, and they're expendable garbage when the week before they were family and we're all in it together and they're so worried about COVID, which is interesting, because what they do is something far worse.
Speaker 5:By treating you the way they do, I'd be the same way Like send you a tremendous amount of anxiety about providing. Yeah, that's a heavy thought to like. What do we do? How do I take care of my family? Yeah, well, it's, that's a. That's a heavy thought to like. You know, what do we do? How do I take care of my family?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that that was the, that was the big part of all of it, cause it was like, not, I'm not just losing this job, I'm potentially unemployable to anyone else, because now I'm going to be the pariah poster child of the industry of like, don't be like that guy, you're gonna ruin your life, right, and you know, and it was a it's, I mean still, but it was a very slow, long process of rebuilding, like trying to, to figure out, like, okay, what can I do? And thankfully I had a studio in my home that we had put in when we moved here, where I track drums for people. So then it was like, oh, okay, all of a sudden I've got people going hey, hey, can you play on my song? Play on my song. So that kept us.
Speaker 3:Is that how you started working?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what got me back to going and again, at first I didn't want to even play drums, it just soured me on. I mean, the industry is the industry already. And then for this to happen, you're just like what's the point? Why? Why am I keep doing this? But I had a friend of mine who reached out to me and like, you know, pretty early on, and he's like hey, you playing drums. And I was like no, I'm not playing drums. And he's like that's what I thought. And he, you know, lives up in Michigan. He's like I'm going to come down with my guitar. I got some songs we're going to you know, you can help me make my record Right and came down out of the goodness of his heart. And we, you know, sat in the studio for a week and, you know, put this record together, which was really fun. And then and he's like you know, now you're playing again, now you're, you're back up and running, and that that really got me moving again.
Speaker 1:And and the the the sad thing in all of it, when we're losing people who we had been close to, we're losing people who we had been close to, not just from offspring people, but you know other people I've known in the industry. You know some of them couldn't run away from me fast enough to not get any on them Right. And uh, it was sad to be like, wow, these people that I've known forever are afraid to be seen with me in public and they're kind of abandoning my family here. And here's all these strangers showing up, going. Can we do? How can we help? What do you need? You know, it was just really affirming of like okay, it's not this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's an identity death here of I I was the guy that played drums in this really big band, but it's's like that's not. That was something I did, that's not who I am, and it was a kind of a having to reprogram my brain around. Like, all right, well, we're not doing that anymore. What's next? And you know so I've been doing all kinds of different stuff for the for the last few years. Like it was. It was very much a period of just saying yes to a lot of things. Like some people, someone hit me up to write a theme song for a cartoon show. I was like, yes, I can do that.
Speaker 1:Yep, no problem, never done that before. Let's go. You know and you know doing the drum tracks, and then that turned into making drum loop packs for a company called Splice.
Speaker 4:And you know. So I've been producing, we've probably used them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have four different packs on there.
Speaker 1:But yeah, and I've just been able to do all that myself out of my studio and and you know that all that stuff trickles down and leads you in different directions, to where now I'm doing more like songwriting and composing. You know, I'm composing the score for a documentary right now and it's like all all things that five, five years ago, yeah, wouldn't wouldn't have been on my radar, but now it's like oh no, yeah, I can do that yeah, let's yeah
Speaker 6:god works in mysterious ways really for me, the.
Speaker 1:and when my buddy came down and we, you know, made his record to get me back on the drums, I hadn't realized how creatively stifled I was, being in the band where I was fed the script and I played the script and you know, don't bring any of yourself here, don't don't veer, outside the color, outside the lines, and it was like cool, I can do that.
Speaker 1:But then you realize like, oh man, I missed creating, I missed feeling like I added something here. So it's been really fun to be doing drum tracks for so many different people, cause you know I look at composing drum tracks the same as songwriting like well, what can I do here that's going to elevate this part, what's going to make make the song lift? You know, and it's been really fun to to get in there and kind of figure out what each song needs and what it doesn't, and like how can I convey the most, the most amount of emotion with the least amount of information? You know, and and that's that's been a really fun way for me to find my way back to my creative spirit, on top of everything else that you know we've gone through.
Speaker 7:So that's incredible, it really is. That's really cool and like like looking back and you've already kind of kind of answered it, because you probably do look back and though it painful at the time and everything about it sucked, but then now you're talking about all the freedoms that you have and do you think and I'm glad that happened, because now I have all the freedom to do the stuff that you just talked about- yeah, I wouldn't characterize it as glad that it happened, but I am happy with where I'm at, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:I drives it as glad that it happened, but I am happy with where I'm at. Okay, if that, if that makes sense, like I don't think any of that should have ever had to happen. Right, I should have been able to do my job. Other people should have been able to make different decisions about their own health and their own safety, and and I understand that fear was a giant motivator for everyone, and nobody nobody makes good decisions from a place of fear and anxiety. You just don't. And so I try to have a lot of grace for anyone, for, however they handled it, I think that my guys handled it poorly. I think I was treated poorly, regardless of whether it was acting from fear or business or whatever.
Speaker 6:What were the names of those guys?
Speaker 7:Oh, we don't do that here do we Offshoot.
Speaker 6:Oh yeah, and your Buffalo Bills are doing good, so you got to be in a good spot.
Speaker 1:You know I'm excited for the Bills. I'm cautiously optimistic, like every year. How do you know if you have to be cautiously?
Speaker 3:Well, okay, well, let's just hope it's a good time to do a field goal.
Speaker 5:God, he said it, he said it. Let's just hope I don't think it's going to be Josh Allen. I think, Josh Allen. I think it's hard to bet against Mahomes because he just finds a way to win.
Speaker 6:Here goes Tully.
Speaker 5:But I will say this is a good shot.
Speaker 3:No, the Bills look strong.
Speaker 1:That's the best shot we've had in a long time Did you go to school with Dawson?
Speaker 6:Yeah, she went to school with Dawson Knox, oh nice. Oh, you did oh yeah, went to Brentwood Academy. Sure did, I tried. I was a stud.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been a fun season for me because my youngest daughter has taken an interest in football and I'm not the biggest football fan, but I've always supported the Bills and I've been. You know, every year we show up there, hold her breath, but uh she's really into football this year and she has decided through through the season. She is on board with the bills now, so she's she's.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you've seen it and it's great. Well, you might not think it's great, but espn did a 30 for 30. I think it's a four falls a buffalo, oh and it's really good.
Speaker 2:Obviously, the super bowl. Have you seen it yet?
Speaker 6:no, it's, it's really good really well done and heartbreaking and inspiring, and all that the Titans featured.
Speaker 3:Seriously, we can talk to Pete.
Speaker 6:You know how we went on.
Speaker 3:He just laughed and went on Well, because, listen, we're like seriously over time and we could talk to Pete for hours.
Speaker 1:Oh, I could let him go. I live up there and I'll come back another time. Hey, you will Be a guest host, That'd be great, That'd be amazing.
Speaker 5:We're trying out for people on that side of the where you're just like I'll get a hat.
Speaker 1:What's that Tell?
Speaker 3:people how they can find you. I know it's at people out on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at people out on Instagram and Twitter X, whatever it's called I don't. I don't have a Facebook. Someone on there has me as a Facebook. So, um and um. Yeah, I mean I have a YouTube channel that's still the same just at Pete Parada and my website's peeparadacom. If you need drum tracks, send me a message there, you know, check out my splice packs and yeah.
Speaker 3:How do we find the splice packs? Seriously, is it just under Pete Parada? Yeah?
Speaker 1:If you go into splice in the search thing, if you search Pete Parada, cause my name's in each of the four packs.
Speaker 6:So there's, there's two that are more like pop, punk, punk rock. And then there's two that are pop, rock and and that kind of thing and with all the single hits the snares and like, oh, totally, and I know, yes, I need to introduce him to pat my cousin.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you do nice, oh yeah, um yeah, he's brilliant, and as long as we're plugging pete, let's plug ourselves, right uh if you're watching us on youtube.
Speaker 3:You gotta subscribe, you gotta download, you gotta like. Leave us a comment like this is this is gonna be a polarizing episode probably, and that's good. Leave us a comment. Let us know what you think. We want to interact with you guys. Follow us at try that podcast on all the socials, right, ali, all the socials we are rocking we're verified, baby thanks Ali. Pete, we can't tell you much. We appreciate you being here.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:Great to meet y'all absolutely, this is Try that in a Small Town Podcast.
Speaker 4:Thanks guys, make sure to follow along, subscribe, share rate the show and check out our merch.