Try That in a Small Town Podcast
In 2023, Jason Aldean's groundbreaking song and video "Try That In A Small Town" resonated with a resurgence of conservative values in America. The writers of the song, Kurt, Neil, Tully, and Kelley, took the opportunity to launch the Try That In A Small Town Podcast. This platform allows them to reveal the true inspiration behind the song and discuss the importance of common-sense values. With a lineup of influential guests, the hosts will entertain you with the stories behind their music, while also addressing challenging topics affecting our communities and country.
Try That in a Small Town Podcast
Faith, Family, and 80+ #1 Hits - Ashley Gorley's Songwriting Saga :: Ep 57 Try That in a Small Town Podcast
Ever wonder what it takes to write a hit song? Try writing 84 of them. Ashley Gorley has accomplished what many thought impossible – becoming the most successful commercial songwriter of all time, surpassing even Paul McCartney's legendary catalog. This record-breaking achievement didn't happen overnight; it was built on years of dedication, countless hours in writing rooms, and an unmatched work ethic.
From his humble beginnings making DJ remixes and blending acapellas with different musical backings, Gorley developed a versatile approach that would later serve him across multiple genres. While Nashville's country music scene became his primary canvas, his talents have extended far beyond, crafting hits for artists ranging from Jason Aldean and Morgan Wallen to Bon Jovi and even earning a Grammy nomination with Weezer.
What separates Gorley from other songwriters? Perhaps it's his unique process – often writing without touching an instrument, focusing purely on melody and lyrics before anything else. Or maybe it's his remarkable ability to sense a hit, though he admits being surprised when experimental songs like "That's My Kind of Night" and "T-Shirt" became massive successes. More likely, it's his philosophy of originality: "Don't write B versions of what's already out there... what can you bring to the table that we don't already have?"
Despite his professional triumphs, Gorley's priorities remain firmly rooted in faith and family. Rather than chasing material possessions, he's invested his success in experiences, taking his children on meaningful trips around the world and mentoring the next generation of songwriters. Through his publishing company, he's helped foster another 50 number one hits beyond his personal catalog.
For aspiring writers, his advice is both encouraging and sobering: find your creative community, be open to criticism, and prepare for rejection. The path isn't easy – Gorley wrote for seven years before his first hit – but for those willing to put in the work and offer something unique, Nashville still offers that rare opportunity where a great song can be recorded simply because someone loves it.
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Basically, my first songwriting was making remixes of like I'd find like an acapella and put different music to it or something. Wow, Just kind of writing. Loved hip hop, R&B, pop and country. I loved all of it, but I would definitely sit there and mess around and match up tempos. Nashville is so great and country is definitely the spot for a songwriter. I will say. It seems like the place where you can still magically get a song recorded because somebody loves it. They don't know who you are, they don't care, they love it. We're cutting it tomorrow.
Speaker 2:That kind of thing it's hard to find anywhere else, If you were coming to town or you had somebody that was talented or thought that's what they wanted to do. Since you are currently the most successful commercial songwriter of all genres of music, surpassing even Paul McCartney, what would you tell? That kid to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wish I could tell them to move here in 2000 instead of a year.
Speaker 4:I know right, you talk about it all the time that's.
Speaker 1:the difference is that I don't know how much longer I could have.
Speaker 5:I mean I wrote with a publisher for seven years without a hit. The Try that in a Small Town podcast begins now.
Speaker 3:All right, welcome back to the Try that in a Small Town podcast Going to be a fun one. Tonight we got K-Lo, we got Thrash TK. I'm Kurt and tonight I was looking at some of these stats. Guys, this is stupid. I don't believe it. Yeah, I think he needs his own ticker. He's written over 80 number one songs you can clarify when we get there, that's not even possible.
Speaker 7:From Morgan Wallen to Bon.
Speaker 3:Jovi Carrie to our favorite Jason Aldean, of course.
Speaker 1:Who is that?
Speaker 3:11-time ASCAP Songwriter of the Year. Give it up, Ashley Gourley. What?
Speaker 2:Thank you for coming out here. It's been a minute, so we've been trying to get you on here. What?
Speaker 4:were his excuses for not coming on.
Speaker 2:They were good excuses. The pay up, the number one parties.
Speaker 3:I get it. That makes sense. It's basically the money I would say baseball games.
Speaker 1:This is my life.
Speaker 2:He was going to do it on June 12th but there's some Hall of Fame thing in New York. Hey, We'll talk about that in a little bit. Oh yeah, but Ashley and I have been buddies for a long time. Both went to Belmont. Long time, you know. I mean it was years ago. You know he's not near as old as I am, but I did the math. Actually Is your 48 now.
Speaker 1:Yes just now.
Speaker 2:Is it 80? Is it 81? What it was is 84, so three or four, so it's roughly like 1.768, number one, since, since you've been born started early.
Speaker 1:So yeah, glad I laid all these tapes down when I was three. Yeah, I wonder you know I like math.
Speaker 3:That's funny, I'm not a number ones I was thinking on the way over here. The way over here, like tiger woods, has won over a hundred golf tournaments. Easy, easy right, but he's got over 30, some number twos, but not as many as nicholas, so it is. But my question is, do you I'm sure you don't know how many number twos you have? I don't know, but what's one that stands out, a song that only went to number two?
Speaker 1:yeah, there's two, three, four, five, ten, fifty a hundred.
Speaker 1:Some of my favorite ones. They all don't go, so I've had a few top fives. Speaking of Jason Laugh, until you Cry went top five. Barely Kevin Some Hill by Hardy is one of my favorite ones. That went top five A song called All Over the Road, a song called why you Wanna. There's a Chris Young song. There's a few Tim McGraw song that went top five, but not one there. There's been a few, not not, as you know, not like a hundred or anything crazy like that.
Speaker 3:That'd be awesome, but enough to come to come close and some people don't realize I mean those songs still have huge impact.
Speaker 1:Number one's a little bit luck timing. I mean songs like Break Up in a Small Town. Didn't write that Girl Crush. A bunch of huge songs went to two or three. We found out that of course we used it, but the Heads Carolina Tales of California song didn't go number one. Really, the original went to like three or four. I'm like how in the world did that not. I know that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3:Hey, I'm glad you brought that up because I've always wanted to ask whose idea was that to take that song and kind of revamp?
Speaker 1:it. I can't own that idea. But Cole Swindell, huge 90s country fan, I think he just wanted to take one and do something. The general idea was to take a great 90s song and try to flip it in some way, and I think he kind of got some opinions. I know Rusty Gaston at Sony was one of the ones that told him that it was the most karaoke song ever. It was Ed Scarline, I think. He made that up, which is funny.
Speaker 1:That's definitely not in stone anywhere, and so I think it was cool he went with a female song and that song in particular, obviously, but I think they tossed around a few and that one fit the bill.
Speaker 4:Good call, yep. So that brought me into it. People don't understand Out there. Our listeners don't understand how, what he's attained, how it's almost impossible if you've been doing it like we've been doing it for 30 years or whatever, and we all know how hard we worked. At one point I don't work near as hard as I used to and I certainly don't work as hard as this guy does, obviously, but to attain what he's attained, it's crazy. It's like I've done the math in my head. I'm going it's hard enough to even get a good song written, and then it's hard enough to get a song cut, and then it's hard to get a song on a record to make the album and then to be singled.
Speaker 2:It's absolutely mind-boggling it's a crazy crazy and I mean I don't think it'll ever be done again. Um, there's no way. But however, I'd not that I called the number, but I did call it you'd call it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were. You were an early believer.
Speaker 2:Second right dude, I called it way too early you called what I called, that he'd be the most successful songwriter in in nashville, and either our first, what made you say that?
Speaker 3:what made you say that about brown dog? Because when you said no, I remember the first night you were like no at the time we did have a big dog.
Speaker 1:The first three songs, number ones, he didn't have anything. But how did you know that he had my first two or three with me for sure? I mean nobody, I mean so he was the most believing one early on, for sure you're. The catalyst is that what you're saying?
Speaker 6:what I'm saying is no, absolutely, you're the ramp.
Speaker 2:What I'm saying is, you know, he started writing with me we did have five number ones together. Boom, now he. It's possible and and quite likely that he has more number ones than I do.
Speaker 1:But all that all that doesn't matter is that what an incredible mentor I was you know, we had carrie, that carrie song. That was the first one, almost 20 years ago, 2006,. I remember what made you say that about him, though I don't know why he got in a room with me. I had no idea I got that.
Speaker 4:Well, you're obviously very, very talented at writing a song, a commercial song. But what made you say that to him? Yeah, because I hadn't had any. It was really everything.
Speaker 2:It was the first one was Time Well Wasted and the next one was Don't Forget to Remember so, time Well Wasted. He came in with the idea and generally I would be an idea guy.
Speaker 5:Generally you do, to be honest, you usually do, and so I would be bringing ideas in.
Speaker 2:But he brought in this idea and he kind of just threw it around, like I have had this laying around a little bit. Mumbled out a little thing Mumbled out something called Time Well Wasted and he started kind of rolling out this melody and everything. I'm like God. This is incredible.
Speaker 1:I thought he was like all right, we're going with the first thing I say so we can get this over with. I had no idea it was good, yeah, but it fell out.
Speaker 2:It's one of those old school three-pronged country songs, story in story, then the bridge hits them differently and all the things, and wrapped it around and his melody was just so right, like like when he he just rolled it out and I'm just kind of writing things down and uh, and it was just at the end of it, I was just listening to it. A little work tape and it was an actual cassette tape. It wasn't. Even if we have phones, I don't think.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think it was on what it was, you know, that's all that tape and I I'd called him later, you know, and said, dude, this thing's incredible.
Speaker 1:And he's like, really, I remember, don't forget to remember you almost got mad because you're like, hey, do you know what just happened? I go no, what do you mean, you know? Yeah, like on the way home he called me. Uh, he was like that, that song's unbelievable. I was like, all right, I thought to myself, well, I guess he knows, we'll see, but I just didn't know at that time. I was just going, you know, putting hours in, trying to figure it out, and I don't know At that time I was just going putting hours in and trying to figure it out, and I don't know if he was just being super nice at the time, or if he actually meant it Kalo's not nice, kalo's not nice.
Speaker 1:Kelly, for sure the first one to, and he even got me in the room to write the third one.
Speaker 2:Well, and even on the Don't Forget to Remember Me, which was a Carrie song, we wrote it for Morgan Hayes, which married to Chris Stapleton it was for her at the time, right, and I had the idea, and Ashley just had this melody that was perfect for it, and Morgan's singing and throwing out lines that we were done just super early. And I'm just sitting there thinking, man, that's a hit too. I'm like I want to write with this guy all the time Because it was just so easy. But even on that second day, because I was believe it or not, I was it or not, I was late the first day, right. But so on the second day, no, we did have phones because he texted me, said it, said hey, say I'm gonna, I'm gonna be there at 10 or 10, 30, whichever. One said said you can be on time, you can be late, like like last time. And I went oh, that's freaking.
Speaker 1:Hey, no, I was just developing the friendship there. Oh, he's a pusher, he's pushing me early which I liked it, you know.
Speaker 2:But he, but he was, he was like that, he was getting it, getting it, getting it going, and then uh, and then on, and we'll go to another, another topic, but but you'd mentioned, like the, the third one. Um, on, when I'll get to that in a second. I do want to say this about titles, and this is ashley's title and I think it's fun for writers out there, because we have a lot of people in the row that are listening to this and a lot of writers, you know, all over the place. But but on that title, you know, I actually kept saying when when's paisley is he going to record it? You know, and at the time, you know, we're good buddies on the same farm. You have unlimited access, you know, just like you guys with aldine, and I said, man, I've pitched it to him. You know, we pitched him for at least an album or two.
Speaker 2:You know time wasted, time wasted and and brad keeps saying says kelly, I, I know the song, I love it, I can sing it right now. I know every word of it. It's great, so why don't you record it? And he goes, he goes, he goes, he goes. I don't know, but I love it. And so I went into right with Ashley and said what are we going to write today? And I said I said I don't know. I said Well, Time Well Wasted. That's the album title, that's what he needs to record. We don't need to write anything. So he was playing I don't know if it was whatever. It was happening downtown, but his bus was down by Bridgestone. I don't know what it was called then. But anyway, we went down there and I called him, told him about it. I said that's the name of your album, is Time Well Wasted. You know, Time Well Wasted recorded and life and love, all the things.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, that was a great call and he said he goes, all right, bring it down here. And that time it was a physical CD you had to bring down you couldn't send anything, couldn't send a text and he went down there and I was so excited and everything, but anyway that ended up being the album title, the tour titles all over all the 18-wheelers. And Paisley and his organization made millions of dollars and Ashley and I made $16,000 because, they never did single.
Speaker 2:What year was that Gosh? I don't know. It was a long time ago.
Speaker 4:That was one of the biggest records.
Speaker 2:But all that to say that actually started helping me think. Even in ideas, like when I'm trying to generate ideas, I would think what's a good album title idea?
Speaker 1:Tour title Tour title you should tell them also. Remember, all all american girl. I always tell the story because kelly, kelly and also chris dubois, they're, they're those two guys I know would would write with me. I had nothing going on at all and that that's a huge thing that you can't, you know, overlook. But um, kelly, when it came down to record the carrie underwood album, we had that song on there, but it was an outside song. I never met her. I'd only seen her on the tv, on idol. You know I was so hyped to have that on there. But I remember they were going through signing, you know, pairing her up with hit writers for the next record. I didn't make the cut because that's the only song I had out. Um and Kelly was like, hey, if you bring him in here.
Speaker 2:I remember you just stood up for me so much like almost all the way to the point where you said we to line up writers. Went through all the hit guys. He said hey, who do you want to write with? We've got one day with Kerry. I said Ashley Gourley, he goes. Okay, great, he goes. Who else, who else would it be? I said anybody, brett James whoever?
Speaker 2:Hillary, all of them. I said whoever I'll write with anybody, If you want a guaranteed number one, it needs to be Ashley Gourley. I said it three times and he put us in there Pretty wild. We wrote that and that was the second song of the day we wrote. We had one day, but that was the second song we wrote that day.
Speaker 1:You did the same thing, you left and, oh, we did it, and I'm like oh no, but I just knew it.
Speaker 4:I said that's a good one, or do you just yeah, no, no no, no, no, I do.
Speaker 1:I I feel like I can kind of tell I can tell better now, you know, than I could. Then I think, um, yeah, you, I mean not that you always know if it's going to be right, you're not, he's got great radar for that. But yeah, a lot of times I can definitely be like that. That sucks, you know, I can definitely do that part. But yeah, when I think now, you never know, all kinds of things have to happen. But I can definitely get there in my brain and be like if they, if this comes out and people hear this, I think it'll, I think it'll be big, you know you ever since that you ever cause.
Speaker 6:You've spent time on the road a lot. I remember seeing you out. Tr was opening for us, like knowing when a song might connect with the fans.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love going out and seeing the show.
Speaker 6:Versus what they, what the label might think, will connect with the fans.
Speaker 1:It's such a different thing. Yeah, there can. There can be two different things.
Speaker 6:I always love that. I see you out there.
Speaker 1:I'm like, okay, I'm out there and I'll walk all the way to the top and I'll walk, all, walk all the way to the top and I'll walk all. I can't stand still or whatever anyway. So I go from the soundboard to the back, to the top of the grass, all that stuff, and just kind of. You have to think about it like that, because sometimes they have one thing in their head or they just think radio or they just think whatever it is streaming or the show, but if you can get the trifecta, I'm always thinking like all right, if this was in the set, would it go off, or would everybody go get a beer? You know, um, when I'm out there, I love going out there and just checking it out and also seeing you guys and TRs watching and be like gosh, this guy has a set full of hits. You know just, the whole learning experience is awesome out there.
Speaker 6:But if you see that I love that about you. I mean, I remember telling Kurt when you were out there I'm like that's where the hits come from. If you tap into what's going on in the 18,000 people, they walk out of the label saying, well, I don't think that's a hit. Well, it is if you put it out. Right. Right, it is if you put it out, you know, because that's that's a great tool to have in your bag, though, able to know what the listener or what we think yeah, what they think we're reacting to give people a little bit because it's an interesting thing.
Speaker 3:You know, being in town there's a there's a certain way to write, but when you're out on the road it's a whole different kind of yeah environment. Give people a little insight to what that might be like if you're out on the road riding with tr oh man, it's just a little camp.
Speaker 1:That's still my favorite way to do it, if I have my way I'd take two, three days a week. Do that not right the other day? It's just any kind of concentrated binging.
Speaker 1:You know whether we and we do that we've had a lot of, I mean, I would say over half days. I've had have come from some type of situation like that where it's at least two days camped up and all of a sudden you strike gold. You know more than just kind of doing a quick drive by three hours and I gotta go. I'm not as good at that. I like to kind of, you know, live in it there a little bit, be on the road. So it's just like a little rolling studio party. You know what I mean? I feel like we're all having a big slumber party and everybody's getting to know each other and you're up at night and, man, when you listen back to a demo on a bus at two in the morning, there's nothing. Now that's where you can overhype a little bit.
Speaker 5:This is the best thing ever came the next morning.
Speaker 1:You're like that is pretty average, but we'll do it again.
Speaker 1:But sometimes you hit that magic and it's just fun to be like, oh my gosh, I wish you could play that tonight. You know, in the set, um, it's just fun because you're with everybody and it's a really close. You know it's a tight space so like you just end up getting along, or or not. Whatever comes from it. But I love, I love that aspect of like being where it's happening, knowing that y'all are doing a sound check in there and we're trying to get something worthy of putting in that show for all these people you know, that's what I went wrong, because I hate the road so much.
Speaker 1:I don't go out anymore like at all, but in that moment it was just a fun. I didn't do a ton like you guys or whatever, and for riders it don't go a lot. It was like, oh, this is awesome, they got catering and they got what.
Speaker 5:Just for a little two or three-day run.
Speaker 1:It's fun. If I was doing it every weekend I'm sure I'd fizzle out. So would if you start writing? Would you write after the artist show or what? Yeah, it depends on who it is. But tr, you know, he's a songwriter at heart, so he would. Yeah, he would be knocking on the door 9, 30 y'all ready, yeah, and he would write until he played. He would go do meet and greet, he would come back on the bus and try to I thought this riff while this riff, while I was taking pictures with people and then he would come back in after the show.
Speaker 1:There's been a few, a few times that's happened, where the guys just that's just where they like to write. Some people are like dirks. I remember being like I don't want to write out here. This is my time to. You know, yeah, tour play the songs. He wants to do it in town, so it depends on the artist, um, but guys like tr and a few others are just like they want to be family when they get home. Just, you know, like they want to kind of separate it. So they want people to come out there and write. Um, super fun, especially the thomas red. I mean, we probably wrote 15, 20 things out there that he's recorded and, uh, jesse frazier and I got to open and be djs for him for like an eight week run, which was my favorite.
Speaker 6:That was the peak of my career.
Speaker 4:That was what I wanted to be since I was like 13 what was your role as a dj on the road?
Speaker 1:oh, dude me and him I know what jesse's was doing that we just mixed back and forth no kidding. Oh, it was insane. That's what I did that from like 12 years old on I would dj all the dances and parties and basically my first songwriting was making remixes of like I'd find like an acapella and put different music to it or something just kind of writing um loved hip-hop, r b, pop and country. I loved all of it.
Speaker 1:But I would definitely sit there and mess around and match up tempos I mean now now you type in the tempo back you had to kind of hear it and blend it in.
Speaker 4:He has no limits.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I have limits, but that was the full circle moment for me, where I started. I want to do that and I'm writing country songs and when we could do both, we played like 90s hip-hop and R&B, 2000s jams to open right for TR, just to get the crowd pumped up for like 20 minutes.
Speaker 1:And it was live so you just click your phone and act like you're doing it and I would definitely mess up jesse wouldn't, but I would, it'd be stuck on us. You're like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 20, 20, 000 people like what's happening? I'm like I got it. Where's the button? So I'm not him, but we still he. I mean he texted today about trying to do that again for some people because it's so fun. It just made you appreciate music so much. To sit there and listen to the whole song and kind of pick it apart and blend it with something else is just fun. You know it's just creating, which is really fun.
Speaker 2:But yet like uh, but like coming here to town and belmont and stuff, I mean you'd think he's and melodically he's great, great with melody and you think he's an amazing musician and stuff, but didn't you just learn how to play keys, like at belmont, like while you were there?
Speaker 1:yeah, I could kind of play. I would say again, I was more like making. It's funny because I started out just making beats, tracks, samples, playing keyboard. Then I remember I forgot a writing deal. I literally put all that stuff up and now I can't hardly turn a computer on, you know, because I was just like I'm melody and lyric, I'm a top liner. Those other guys are so great at producing and making music. You guys, people like that, I mean I get lost in those details. So I did terrible. I tried to take piano in college so I could learn to read music.
Speaker 1:It was the worst grade I got was that and audio engineering and I have a studio and play keys now, but those were definitely the worst two grades I think I had to drop piano so I didn't fail it. He's like everything you're doing is wrong and I said you're too late. Yeah, because my fingers are like this when I when I'm trying to do it, and I grew up playing more like baby face piano, not like you know, honky tonk piano, but um, yeah, all that stuff worked out. I learned to play guitar. I remember at a party one time somebody showed me like four chords and it just made sense to me for whatever weird reason.
Speaker 1:Piano. I at least tried a little harder out or tried to learn, learn to play that when I was in high school. Um, but yeah, not not a great instrumentalist, just more can hear the melody and can do some do some weird chords because you write everything on piano, now right, and you have like, yeah, most of it 85 of the time I'll write not touching an instrument, if I can help it, because I like just the freedom of trying to come up, but it's not guitar it's, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it totally depends, it's been both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, early on, electric, grab the guitar like out. I've never seen a guitar in his hand yeah, he would say say hey, let me see your guitar for a second. He goes, he goes. I've kind of been tinkering around with this. I kind of learned it two or three months ago and he starts playing this melody and everything and he's tinkering around. I said I sound 10 times better than what I was playing you know, but he wasn't a great player at the time, but his melodies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't rip a solo or anything, but yeah, piano for sure, and it stays in tune. A guitar never sounds in tune to me if I'm playing it, ever. Even if it is, I'm like this is out of tune, so I usually opt for the keyboard.
Speaker 3:But I've done both, yeah you were talking about, um, you know, knowing when or having a good sense of when you think you've written a hit. This always interests me, uh, because neil has said this about a song that he didn't think was a hit, like night train. He wrote night train, which is an incredible song, but when he wrote it he was like, yeah, that ain't it right. And it ended up becoming a big hit and a ranch, uh, which you saw no money for. But, uh, ranch, is there one of those that you thought? I just don't see that that actually ended up getting its own life.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, sometimes you know, like, and probably cause night train isn't just like radio candy, it's got a lot of depth stuff to it. Sometimes I'm sure it was just like well, this is not just radio, I'm not sure about this and Jason puts out whatever he wants, as we all know so, and has hit every time. Um, but yeah, I think my my, true, if I boiled down my god-given gift, it would be more of an a? R. You know, like knowing if the thing is is what somebody should do, or guessing some step they could take, or anything like that. So I've had a few where I was like I'll probably push that too far. You know, like songs like that's my kind of night or t-shirt for thomas. I was like we went crazy on this song. No way, this is too much. But then even thomas, at the time when that song he asked to hold it. He's like I don't think they're ready for it, but if let's wait a couple years, see what happens. And then he put it out and it was a hit.
Speaker 7:You know so. Even he had a great great art.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was like can I hold this? I know he hadn't had much stuff and you know everybody loves him. We're just taking shots, you know, in the dark and who knows, with last night and and uh, again cowgirls, some of those things with a lot of rap flows and different kinds of different kinds of vibes stripped down to no instruments but acoustic guitar and a drum beat or whatever. So some of those it's it's like okay, now that that one I really felt strong about, but I definitely sometimes I was like this could be too far, you know. So more of that than like like thinking there's no way somebody hit and then it kind of comes out of nowhere. The other ways happen where I'm like this is going to be huge and then moving on to the next record, that's how it is Right.
Speaker 1:But usually I can kind of once I hear the final thing, once I hear the actual cut of it, like you used to. Yeah, right, so when it comes out, I sit there with my earpods in at 11 11 pm in the bed and try to do my best, judging for it, you know, but uh, but yeah, I usually have a pretty good sense about that are you pretty much, are you pretty much on all the time?
Speaker 4:as far as songwriting goes no, not anymore.
Speaker 1:That's a uh. I think people think that all the time I can turn it off pretty easy now. I can completely shut it down and go into fan mode. I don't write much in the summer. I don't write as much as people think, at least the last few years, but when I was grinding, I was grinding. I like to turn it on and turn it off, but if it's on, it's on. See, that's the thing.
Speaker 4:That's the difference in some songwriters. When I would, there was nothing, it was like it was just the success or the cut ratio would just go. But when I would pick and choose where I wanted to write and you snipe it a little better, yeah, yeah, it was. It was weird. If I tried to grind, it wouldn't work. Yeah, and I always pictured you as like a grind.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's more yeah, and it's always like the. If we're doing a camp, I'm telling you almost every song, like we do a camp with hardy at my house where I go fish for a minute and do whatever Hunter's making shrimp on the back of a truck bed. It's the country-est scene ever. It's on a river. It's awesome where my studio is and it's always like the 10 pm song is the one that goes. You know what I mean? We're starting at 10 am. We might even write two songs that are good, or may even Not the one. Just kind of happens when nobody's calling anybody and you're just in the zone and you're only doing it because you're loving it. You're not getting paid to be there at 10 pm, you know, necessarily. So there's something about that environment. Same thing of being on the road and just kind of riding one at midnight. It's like why are we even doing this? You know it's free overtime, you know. But yeah, that scenario I love. So I do like all right now, let's do one in 30 minutes.
Speaker 3:I'll always do the Hail Mary at the end of most sessions, if I've got time, and it's interesting because, when you know, I was thinking of the time, so we've done that too the ones that happen later at night, you're not overthinking as much either. And they just happen because you're having fun and you're just living in that moment, yeah, you're tuned in, you're like warmed up.
Speaker 1:You know like I love that.
Speaker 6:I love getting into basketball out of town, yeah, even I mean on the road is different for us, because it's it's harder for us a little bit to write in the road, because you know sound check sees, you know comes on quick, you know then you, then you got stuff to do when you play a show. And for me personally, though, when we do go out of town and do something like a writing camp or a retreat that's my favorite thing Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think it's most people because, you can concentrate on one and you can.
Speaker 6:you can really dive into it and get away from it and come back to it, and I used to 10 o'clock at night and bang one out and next morning it sounds pretty good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that always feels great to me. I mean I've had them both ways, but that one, that concept, is real. I think, just of kind of being there, you feel like you're kind of making a record or you just feel more like you know creative. And again, if you're gone, you know, then you don't have to coach whatever at 3 o'clock and leave or whatever. I always hate that feeling of having to cut it off. So it's fun to do at least a days in a row and just, and if you're not home, then you can't. You know you're not going home, so you're just going until you get tired, you know, unless daly murphy's there and then the next morning, and then you don't feel
Speaker 2:so good, yeah, you're going all night and that's when it can be rough.
Speaker 3:I heard he's calmed down a little bit that's I think yeah I doubt it well, I mean, it was such a high fire, I don't know if you can.
Speaker 6:I think a calm down. Dllm is still pretty hype. Yeah, it's there.
Speaker 1:I do write fast, but that doesn't mean the song's done fast. I just like to spit it out in like 10 minutes and get a vision for what the end is, just so we don't spend eight hours working on it.
Speaker 4:Hang on a second. Yeah, right Down, spit it out.
Speaker 2:That's kind of like what a co-write is with him, because he would spit stuff out and you're just typing it down. You can't understand everything. And then he said what did I say there? What did I say there? And I said I don't know. And I said but it was great. And I said what was it? He goes, I don't know, it's gone, it's gone.
Speaker 1:I've already messed up it kind of in a row, um. So I definitely learned how to write quick from necessity. But yeah, it doesn't matter, it may take 15 hours to finish, you know, three days to finish it, but that one the the main core of it.
Speaker 4:I feel like it's fun to let that kind of fly out and see, see if it sticks or not, you know I gotta, I gotta tell you it's like, it's like you know, after doing it, as long as we've been doing it, as long as I've been doing it, because it's's been like I mean 30, almost 35 years, and then you keep having all this success and you're like you. You probably don't know it, but you like it's an inspiration for a lot of us older guys to like wait a minute, it's almost like you know what I'm saying. That's like, it's not you don't get pissed, but you're like shit.
Speaker 3:I gotta get back to work. I got to get back to work.
Speaker 5:I'm not done yet Thinking.
Speaker 4:I'm done. I'm going to play more golf, I'm going to hunt more or whatever. I'm like no God, no, I need to get back on it.
Speaker 2:Well, one huge difference that he's always had that's different from, at least, I would say, you and I okay is we could write something that actually ended up being a hit. And I knew, looking at it and listening to it, and it's something that actually Dallas and Davis and I had written, instead of like running out of moonlight for Hauser as soon as we get done, I'm thinking that's done, that's a hit.
Speaker 7:I mean, that's it.
Speaker 2:If he likes it and they put it out, it's a hit and I'm like I'm starting to pack up. You know, I want to go hit some golf balls or something. She's like let's go, let's go, let's go.
Speaker 4:I've got two hours, two hours. Two hours, two hours. No, that work ethic is amazing.
Speaker 2:You want to ride another one.
Speaker 1:I don't want to ride one at all, and that would be me now, but yeah, yeah, yeah, what about this? I start rolling it out and open up my computer and then oh shit, here we go, hey we I figured you wouldn't be slowing down until you hit 100.
Speaker 4:If you get to 84, 100's got to be the number no, no, no, there's no number, there's not Uh-uh.
Speaker 3:Really, I think you're lying.
Speaker 1:I'm not lying. It's funny when people ask because they're like, dude, you have 100 next week. I'm like, well, that's 20 more. That's a lot of songs like that. Um, that's just tricky stuff because, I think you're lying.
Speaker 2:I think definitely whoever bought his last catalog wants to be 100. I'd say it's uh, no, no no, I would.
Speaker 1:I feel like if I was let to get out of it, I would. I would do it, you know, I mean for sure. And there's no, there's no more goals. Um, and being a somebody didn't know anything about being a songwriter or publishing, it's not like I even had those goals. Not like I wanted to triple play. I didn't know that existed, you know or any of that stuff.
Speaker 1:So it's almost fun now looking back, just being like I mean, most things you have all these exact goals, you know, whether it's financial or sports thing or whatever. But when you're just I mean, my goal was to not have to get a real job, you know there's still no, no better feeling than writing songwriter on your taxes. You know, I mean it's your job to me. I still haven't got that. That was the best feeling, so the rest, you know, is gravy as far as different.
Speaker 4:You've made the ASCAP Awards very unexciting. I'm sorry about that. That's my bad.
Speaker 6:I think you literally shut the ASCAP Awards down.
Speaker 1:It's like not even a show anymore. No, I just kind of hang out and get a drink. All right here, come get this.
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Speaker 6:Join our original glory family and help ignite that original glory spirit. It's a great lesson out there, though, like the work ethic, which is the biggest inspiration, which I think is the key to everything. But when you work hard through the years, like you've done, you gain the trust of the young artists you're writing with. That are established artists Gaining that trust. You're gaining the trust at radio or a girl is tapped in, and that's I mean it feels that way. That trust that you have is like label knows it, you know oh yeah this is radio candy.
Speaker 6:This is gonna and that, and that's what artists need stuff that's gonna go go up the chart.
Speaker 1:It's great yeah for sure, my whole career has been like these little phases of where I just kind of lock in and, for whatever reason, I'm speaking an artist's language, whether I'm writing them with, with them or or pitch or for them or whatever you know kind of a combo of those usually. But it's funny, it doesn't ever last like 10 years or anything. But there'll be like a little period of time there where I just feel like I'm I'm good at educated, guessing what they should kind of do, something they could do next that I think would go off. And I do. I do try to give them like I'm going in, like if I'm going in, I'm going, um, all in and really thinking, if I'm that person, would I do this, you know, would I actually put this out? Would I sing this? Would I get tired of singing it?
Speaker 2:um, I try to kind of be in their role a little bit, which I think helps, you know, instead of just trying to get one done and call it a day well and have have there been times like and you and I have talked a little bit about this, um, but I'm asking for everybody else like that you've been been in a certain camp and whether it's their first record, second or whatever, and have two or three number ones, all kinds of cuts and everything like that, and you say I'm freaking in, that, I'm in, they're gonna, they're certainly gonna call me back next time. Yep, but they don't every single time isn't that weird, isn't that weird?
Speaker 2:it's never not happened like you would think yeah, he's getting the call. He's getting the text for every camp. Everybody's coming up, even with people he's had multiple hits with.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and that's the hard part, you know I always say when I, you know, kind of wind down or quit or retire or whatever it is, it won't be because I'm burnt out on just songs, you know it's just like that's hard. It's hard to do that. You know. The people, the other stuff that comes along with it is tough sometimes. You know it's an emotional thing. I thought we had a thing, but everybody's after the next thing. So don't blame us. It's not like a bad thing I guess they're doing, but definitely I'll hit a little good period of time, not really make a mistake, you know what I mean. But it's just like all right, I thought we won the Super Bowl, but I guess you want a new coach. It's just a natural thing. I think that's just what they can change is who they're getting with. There's so many awesome new young writers. I mean I don't blame them, you know. So it makes sense, but it does. Every now and then I'm like, ooh, shoot, that stung a little bit. You know, can't help but feel that way.
Speaker 2:And you wonder sometimes too, like if it's a newer artist or even older artist or whatever is. If you don't get that call, maybe it's because you're like's definitely happened where it's like I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:I don't need any more gory songs or this guy's songs or whatever. So sometimes that that's. I don't think that's normal. I mean, it's definitely happened yeah that's not usual, but sometimes it just kind of. It just kind of happens. You know what I mean. You go in different directions or whatever, or like I've done that, he did that, and even though I think I could do the next phase too, they're just like let's turn and, you know, do whatever.
Speaker 4:How much, how many? How many cuts have you had outside of the country? Genre?
Speaker 1:Uh you know, I mean not as many as in country. I know several. Yeah, I mean I, I I mean I worked with, I mean even the last couple weeks with a couple of pop artists, because it's fun.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And even some rappers. I like being all over the map. We had a Weezer Best Rock Song Grammy nomination.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Alternative chart that is awesome, which is one of those Hail Mary days where I'm like all right, we've got 15 minutes, let's yell out something crazy. And then that turned into that and got to do some Bon Jovi stuff, charlie Puth, jason Derulo, different people there's been, especially with the Morgan stuff.
Speaker 1:There's a few rappers, moneybagg Yo we have a song with and things like that, and I love that stuff so I would love to do that. I'm not chasing after that necessarily because Nashville is so great and country is definitely the spot for a songwriter. I will say it seems like the place where you can still magically get a song recorded because somebody loves it. They don't know who you are, they don't care, they love it. We're cutting it tomorrow. That kind of thing it's hard to find anywhere else.
Speaker 3:You know it used to be. If you were a Nashville songwriter, LA or New York wouldn't look at your songs.
Speaker 1:Right, no, now they want them. They're asking for them, You're right.
Speaker 3:But talk about a little bit the process, because writing a country song is different than writing a song.
Speaker 4:It is yeah for sure.
Speaker 3:So what's the mindset that you go into or how do you approach that? Yeah, it's just a different part of my brain Depends on who the artist is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it depends on what it is. You know what I mean. I'll shut off part of my brain and turn on another little. Try to usually be. It's. It's probably a more more melodic and production based. The lyrics, I think, and some pop songs are amazing. Even you know better than some country songs.
Speaker 4:So I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't ascribe to like. I feel like people used to think, oh, pop, they just yell out whatever words, so that's easy. I'm like man, it's pretty hard to both sides of it. I think they're both impossible. Um, but definitely now you know most of those calls or somebody's making a country album or like, oh, we'd like, they love the, the, you know the nashville way, I guess, which is really pouring it all into the song and the lyric. They really, they really love the lyric to be have a little bit of a turn or something, you know, something that pays off there somewhere. So, um, now, now it's all blurred together which I love.
Speaker 1:You know, it looks like my playlist, you know as far as, like what I would just listen to, right, it's all mashed together, which I love, you know, um, so now I'm not trying, I'm not chasing after that stuff very much. On the pop things, if somebody comes through town, that that that I think is awesome and I could tap into their artistry a little bit, then that's really fun, you know. But it doesn't matter which honor they are now, it's just if it's, if I think I can bring something to the table, I'll do it, and if not, then I won't. Kind of, you know, I'm there, which is really fun to not feel like I have to chase this thing, I want to song on this thing. It's more like, yes, I want to spend time with those people that day and let's try that, you know, and we have a whole team of writers that are, so I mean, they're, that's who's gonna. You know, they're doing so well now that I'm pitching their songs more than mine and they're not needing me in the rooms, which I love.
Speaker 4:So it's all going in the right direction. That really pisses me off. I had him pegged as the hardest working guy in the world.
Speaker 1:No, my guys are working harder than me. They're working harder than I am. They're going hard.
Speaker 2:You mentioned the Triple Play Awards, which, for people who don't know, people who don't know, it's like having three number ones in a 12 month or 15 month period. Right, and I remember seeing the picture, uh, because april 29th when you had that and I think I think half the guys getting that were were one was ashley and half of them were ashley's writers yeah, that was like my favorite accomplishment.
Speaker 1:They just sent me the thing because I don't look at the internet or any anything at all, really, or social media or anything like that, so somebody has to send me something if we have it come out. So one of our staff sent it and it said something about that. I think six of us um got triple plays, or maybe one of them had their first number one they got recognized for, and I know five of us got triple plays, so that that to me is better than like, oh, I got this hit or I had this many number ones in here.
Speaker 2:Knowing that the that the crew is kind of, you know, jumping in there and going after it is really, really fun fun, yeah, and I know you've got a lot of writers now, but I know when you started and you had three or four or five, all of his writers were on the radio. There wasn't one writer that didn't have a single which you couldn't find a publisher where that would be true. It's amazing.
Speaker 4:Are you still driving that same Toyota? No, because I would see him. Yeah, the Sequoia. Yeah, I would see him. Yeah, the Sequoia, I would see him. And it's like you know I mean he's like he's had multiple number ones by this time Can completely afford anything he wanted.
Speaker 1:That was a good kid mobile yeah.
Speaker 4:And he still drove. He drove that Sequoia. I did Forever A lot of miles, yeah.
Speaker 2:Not as long as Casey Beathard drove his truck.
Speaker 1:That's right. I got the. I got the. I thought that was so cool. You just stuck with it. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah. I've never, never been a big car guy. I've spent all my money on uh trips. We're big travel crew, so we we made a bucket list and try to try to see the world with the fam so that was the main thing, so I'll give us one of those where have you gone.
Speaker 1:Oh, man, I mean all over that. That's my favorite thing. I mean, you know, music can do a lot of things, but it providing for us to go do that, me and my wife have always said like, hey, if any of these ever work, we're gonna not, you know, like save money, but we're also going to use it on experiences and travel. So I mean we've taken them to iceland, switzerland, israel, norway, south africa, like all that stuff. You know, if it wasn't for covid we would have got through the list, but we still got two or three more left on there. But we tried to do it while they were young and tried to really travel, you know, australia and the further away, and feel like, all right, as time as it gets harder and harder to get them all together, we'll do more US stuff, but we kind of went all around the world. It was nuts. At least a couple times a year we'd do crazy trips.
Speaker 2:But also not just family or personal trips. He's done more mission trips with his kids, his whole family. I mean since I've known him like even in when he was hitting, hitting it so hard he said I can't. I'm going to be gone three weeks.
Speaker 1:We're going some yeah, we would still travel yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just some tribe in Africa somewhere that we wanted to witness to Jesus, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've done a bunch of those. So the kids have, you know, I don't know how much I can offer them, but at least, like they know, there's a big figure out what they want to do. They have it all in their memory bank a little bit, you know, and I just love being in new places, seeing things I'll never see again. I just love that. That to me is like the ultimate rush, more than like things or whatever you know, so very, very thankful for that. They are too. I mean they still bring it up. Everything's connected to some trip. Remember when we were here and did this or whatever. So it's fun. I mean we're still doing it, but it's really fun.
Speaker 6:Well, for kids, especially to widen out their thoughts and know what's out there, and you know it's a great gift to give them.
Speaker 1:Well, it's different. Like you know, go to church when you're a kid is different than to go to Israel and walk around with like we got to take. My youngest got baptized in the Jordan River, you know, by Chris Tomlin and Darren.
Speaker 1:Whitehead, that's our pastor and that's like insane. You know, just to like actually see it. It brings all that stuff to life, which is a huge component of faith. I think it takes all the any kind of fairytale stuff out of it when you're actually walking around with the right guides, like we were um a lot of trips like that. I mean that one was obviously the biggest one and most important, but we've done we've jumped off sides of mountains, we've done some stuff that right now I would never do it again.
Speaker 1:Like I feel, like God was, like you got to do this now, because once your brain fully develops, around 40, you'll never hang off the edge of a waterfall again like an idiot, you know. But we have that picture. You know that kind of thing. So it's funny. I always think about that. Looking back, it's like I would never do that again, but the kids are fearless because of it, I'm not.
Speaker 1:I kick in a little bit. Yeah, it's like, all right, I don't know about that, I don't want to jump. Physics there, yeah yeah, paraglide and waterfall rappel, we've done all that stuff. But I mean they, they eat it up, it's fun. And now they're you know, I got one that's, uh, gonna be a singer in high school nature. It's. It's almost impossible to get them all together. You know we have a little time at christmas and over the summer my daughter's leaving for new york and my other son's in wyoming and the other one's playing travel baseball, which might as well just be a full-time job. It's tough. It's tough to get them all just in one room to hang out somewhere.
Speaker 6:When do they get married?
Speaker 1:That's what we're doing. Oh my goodness, I can't imagine.
Speaker 4:That's wild, it's coming though it's fun Coming fast.
Speaker 1:It's different. I mean, little kids are tough. Um, we had kids really, really young, um and not. That was easy, but there's something about when they become adults you're like, oh, wow, I'm really worried about. You know, this is a human with real emotions and trying to conquer the world or whatever they're doing. So, um, that's been tough. Last few years takes up a lot of a lot of brain space just to think like, man, have I done? Have I set them up? Like, were they experienced enough? Do they know what they're doing? All that stuff. So thankfully, we're all tight. That's. It's really fun. I value all my time with them and, uh, we'll definitely prioritize that over a session anytime there you go, but it's scary, you know, when they start to head out on their own.
Speaker 6:Oh yeah, with big dreams and you want to see them succeed, and that's the I. I worry more about that. Just got it, just praying that he gets to, or they both get to have their dreams come true. And, and you know we all get, they're all so different, it's out of your control.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's what's so about being a writer? I always talk about that. It's like control. I know that's the thing I love to a little bit of a control freak. I'm making that itinerary. If we're doing a trip, I'm the one setting everything up. A song, you know, and that's always been the hardest part for me to be like. I know what this should sound like, I know when this should come out, all that stuff. But that's always been tough as a writer or a parent to do that, to kind of leave that up to fate.
Speaker 3:The end part, you know that's one of the hardest things I don't think people control that's the hard.
Speaker 1:What happens after the?
Speaker 3:song is written especially in Nashville. It's like that you know there's other genres.
Speaker 1:You're like in there. They're like, hey, I was in there, they're doing the vocal, I'm coaching them doing whatever. I'm like I don't even get to hear. You know, I'll hear it when it comes out, kind of thing. That that is really tough um for me, which I'm used to it now. But man, that was for was.
Speaker 7:For a while I was like oh, let me in there, let me help you coach that or maybe play this or do that.
Speaker 1:I loved making demos, that whole process back when we were doing full band demos all the time, or even with the track, just having having that be a hands-on process. But it is tough to do that, you know as, and it's just for no-transcript it. They don't like it, dude, you know, because I'll have writers be like dude, you should, you should hype up so and so. On this, I'm like I've never had that work one time, yeah, I remember hey, remember, it doesn't remember this, it's still really good.
Speaker 1:They're like yeah, I remember that, all right see you, you know yeah it's usually the process, so I have gotten pretty good at being like this. Is it a defining success? As, whatever you leave the room with, that's it. That's why I want to pour everything I got into it, because that's kind of all you get to do. It's hard to go back and tinker with it and you don't get to take it across the line. You got to just call the play and hope it. You know, hope it works. Um, so I've tried to even talk to our writers, mental health wise, with, like all right, if you give, you've done all you can. You know, and that's it. You did it. Now, will anybody else realize you did it? Who knows, we'll see, but you did what you could do. You know that day, with the time you're given, so that's a great job and you just gotta be like that's it. I crushed it, you know.
Speaker 2:And roll on when you mentioned, mentioned mental health and that's a big thing for you, and then you've got that Jelly Roll song. I'm Not Okay. Oh yeah, Can you talk about all that a little bit?
Speaker 1:That's a really cool story, yeah, I mean, that's something I feel like everybody struggles with, but I definitely do and we've been to sessions, I've done whatever they are. You know on-site retreats and intensives and things like that. Even with they are you know on-site retreats and intensives and things like that. Um, even with, like my son, or with different you know different people, it's an open thing you know in the family, like hey, we're to talk through things, or if you need to talk somebody, go do it. Um, yeah, that song in particular just was birthed out of the way I feel and the way I feel like a lot of people you know feel.
Speaker 1:And then jelly, just thankfully he records weird songs. You know they aren't. They're not about picking a girl up and going having a beer on the river. You know he's like attacking real things. So we've got a song about the devil being a liar and other songs about not want to get out of bed in the morning. So, and their hits it's so weird. You know that he can pull that off, um, but thankfully he can, because that's assumed that that became like a top 10 pop hit. Somehow. It's like a serious ballad. I did not expect any of that. That might be the unexpected one. I did not think that would be on the pop charts.
Speaker 1:I'm not okay, or a single at all, um, let alone the first one. So, um, but yeah, that was, that one was special and I really feel like God uh kind of just gave us that idea. It just kind of poured out, um, you know, and I was on the bus, uh went out to write with him for like a day or two. That's one of the few bus runs I've done, um, just because I was really intrigued about to see his show. Again, we're talking about the show earlier. Go see a show, the crowd, it was like church out there. It was wild. I've never seen the fans. It was an incredible um experience to watch.
Speaker 1:And then, and that song was just kind of trying to be honest, I mean there's no, there's no cure at the end of that song or anything like that, or even a suggestion, or it doesn't even end well or anything. Um, it just, it just says, hey, we're not okay, we're going to be all right. Um, it's kind of a weird thing to say, but I think it makes sense. You know, like one day I mean it's talking about heaven and the other that solves what we're thinking about here while we're still here on earth. So I definitely struggle with sleeping thoughts. I'm definitely not thinking about charts or songs or anything. I'm thinking about, you know, happy things like death or like you know what happens when I think about that.
Speaker 1:I mean I really do. I think about that stuff every day and every night and just making sure just how short time is really really bothers me. So just making sure I'm making the most of that and just trying to think through and pray through what my purposes are. Is it still in the writing room? Is it both? Do I need to do whatever? I mean, I'm willing to do whatever I need to do.
Speaker 4:There's a lot of people out there that let, especially later in life, let their last chapter really get to them and really bring them down. And they have two ways to go. They can. They can pray about it and pray their way out of it and pray through it, or they can just waller in it and yeah and and I've seen both sides of that- oh yeah, I don't know I'm.
Speaker 1:I want to end well, not like obsessed with like having some great final that's what it is.
Speaker 4:People get obsessed with it.
Speaker 1:They get obsessed with it, with the last chapter be over the thing is, you know, in those phases of life I love the grinding warrior phase better than like the king or whatever they call it phase of the end, where you're more like doing whatever. But thankfully I built that stuff in. You know, with tape room, um, with the writers, being able to coach and mentor while I'm still writing some has like been a lifesaver for me. Like I need that. That's not like a side gig to try to make some extra money, that's just doing what I feel like I'm meant to do. So that's been really fun to to get to coach and mentor and run that even while I'm still doing writing sessions, um. So I've kind of got to pre-transition a little bit, you know, um, and so I feel like I'm ready whenever it, whenever it runs out. I'm ready, not saying I'll be good with it, but I'm, I'm, I'm ready for that whenever it comes and ready for whatever God's got on the other, on the other side of it.
Speaker 6:Hey, man, God makes it very clearly, at least to me, where those chapters of your life are and where they appear, and where a new one starts, you know, and that that it's yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a new one right now for me, music stuff's going great, but with the kids leaving and all that stuff definitely I think that's where I get fixated on that. I'm like, all right, I wonder what's going to happen now. It was a little easier back in the day when it's like all right, everybody's in school got to get their homework done, trying to write some hits, trying to meet some new cool people, time and all that stuff. I can get mixed up in that a little bit.
Speaker 6:I was just telling Kurt, you know, my son's getting ready to head off to college and I'm like how's that going to work? He's going to California, like it's not, like he's going a couple hours away. So you know again, my point is very defined.
Speaker 7:New chapter oh yeah, yeah, it's, you know, sure yeah it's like no, no doubt where the new one starts.
Speaker 3:You know it's got to be hard because you know, as a parent you're well, one of your roles is to help shape uh your child's life and give them uh, the right tools. But at some point you have to set them free and that's. You know I'm not there yet, but you're there and it sounds like you're. That that's just got to be a scary hard thing. Yeah, okay, you've got to go experience it for yourself.
Speaker 1:You've got to go learn for yourself you gotta let them fail a little bit, which is always tough, right, yeah, which is which is a crucial thing though, yeah, I mean for the character at least.
Speaker 6:At least I think that way, where you know the bumps along the road make you like to think and make them stronger, you know so it's, but again very defining, uh time yeah, god will let you know.
Speaker 3:You won't be wondering is this a new chapter?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah I have the mental thing where I just don't like stuff to be over, whether it's like a good night, I'll stay up all night long, I just want to have a good time or you don't want the song or the run or the.
Speaker 1:You know whether it's a chart run or it's a baseball game or it's just a phase where they're little before it gets too serious about sports, just all that stuff. I just love to sit in and I never want it to be over. You know last day of a trip or last whatever it is, you know a session or a uh any kind of memory, so I always try to milk those as much as we can.
Speaker 3:You got to move on you know, yeah, I want to talk about this and make sure we get to this, because it's important. When people talk about the music business, music is part of it, but the business is obviously the other part of it, and you've been really active in trying to make sure, in this new age of streaming, that the songwriters especially get taken care of. Can you talk about the Music Modernization Act and your role?
Speaker 1:Oh man, I can't take a role in any of that. I've been, you know, in DC a couple times and all that. That stuff is so tricky because it's a tough, you know, it's an uphill battle, you know, and there's something new all the time that's coming out. So I haven't effected as much change as I'd like to. I mean, I always go to the NMPA conferences or learn what's going on so I can tell that to my writers and however we can do it, we've tried to do a few new things, but really just having a good grip on it and making sure that we're all getting taken care of whether that's helping a writer sell their catalog at the right time, if that's a thing squeeze the most juice out of these fruits we got sitting around.
Speaker 1:As far as songs go, I definitely have a heart for that and for writers to be taken care of however they can. I don't have the solutions. It's really tricky and a lot of times it's going after people that are way bigger and have a lot more lobbyists and money than we all do. But I feel like it's getting a little better and stuff on the stream and it's accounting for a lot, but it's still not what radio is, and it's a tough uphill climb. I don't have the answers.
Speaker 6:I'm down to sit around and do a think tank anytime. It seems like the scales are so tipped that how good can it get? Yeah, yeah yeah, it's so lopsided.
Speaker 1:They're laws, so people just have to start giving you stuff out of the goodness of their heart, which is not going to happen
Speaker 1:that's not good, that's not going to happen. Yeah, but I do like to. Uh, I do know. I mean writers are so talented, so awesome. I definitely even like a lot of mine. I'll help, I'll jump in and try to help them if it's time to, you know, bundle up some songs and sell them or do a deal. I like helping people with all that stuff. I've I got enough of that knowledge from from belmont and kind of leaning in on that, the copyright, management of all of it and being a publisher and stuff where I have a pretty good grip on that. So I love helping people. Even if it's just financial plan or whatever, I love all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Being a financial piece is a big deal, so the sooner you can get to a point where you don't have to do it anymore, the better. At least for me, that's how I experienced it. Once I was to to the point where didn't have to have these hits to pay the bills, then, like a whole new chapter came about, you know, and it was even the songs did even better, you know, in the last three or four years than the ones before. I thought I was done. I was like, well, that's probably it, and then there's a freedom to that, that that it'd be fun to help some other people. You know kind of experience which is like you're doing what you want, picking your spots, and uh, you know it's fun. I mean, growing up we we did money, determined a lot, you know, um, and I was determined to make that not not the case, not like we can do anything we want, but you know I think you need to quit helping people and get to 100.
Speaker 5:Go ahead and get to 100 and then start helping people. It's it's.
Speaker 1:It's a nice even number. Put me first, that's first. That's a great thing. Well, let's count it as a publisher. That's a me person, he likes to even match.
Speaker 3:I was asking what your count is as a publisher.
Speaker 1:Obviously your own personal, yeah, as a publisher I mean not counting me. We hit 50 last year, I think 50 number ones which I promise I'm more proud of that than you.
Speaker 4:I don't even know how that's even possible. I know.
Speaker 1:That one blew my mind. I was like where are we? At once they counted. I was like, wow, so it's 50-something. Now We've got a few cents there.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, that's incredible.
Speaker 7:But yeah, I'm blown away.
Speaker 1:It's inspiring.
Speaker 2:That's kind of the hack, if there is one, I think, is sometimes yeah, sometimes no, no, I do, I do, I do. I do have a question because I had a kid. I had a kid ask me this the other day and I really didn't know, you know, uh, the answer to it, because he's 16 years old and he said he's a man, he goes. I'm just, you know, I like writing songs, I think I got some pretty good things and uh, he goes. What do you think I ought to do? And he lived in chattanooga, you know, and I was doing a benefit thing and it kind of caught me off guard. I'm like that's a fantastic question.
Speaker 2:I used to I would tell you and I did say I mentioned NSAI, national Songwriters Association International, and things like that and the PROs. You know, sometimes a lot of people listen to songs, but is that true anymore? I don't know If you were coming to town, since you are currently the most successful commercial songwriter of all genres of music, surpassing even paul mccartney. What would you tell that kid to do?
Speaker 1:yeah, I wish I could tell him to move here in 2000 instead of uh I know right, you know talk about it all the time.
Speaker 1:That's the difference is that I don't know. I don't know how much longer I could have. I mean I wrote with a publisher for seven years without a hit, um, but we paid know less for our first house than people do for their driveway now, you know. So it's just a different thing. You know the it's tough on the money and hopefully I mean that's my role is to get in there with at least our team and help it. Be a little less than seven years if we can help it. But it still takes a minute, you know. So I don't know at 16.
Speaker 1:I think they find out like hey, how many songs are you writing a song every day? Like no, but I have like three good ones in the last year that I finished and I'm like, all right, let's try to write a song. I'm telling them write a song every day and see if you get tired of that. You know what I mean. See, basically, find your crew. It's seldom that somebody of you know it's.
Speaker 1:A lot of times it's a team of people that come up and sometimes somebody like me sneaks into your crew for a minute. You know what I mean with with brad and chris and you, um, you let somebody in, but for the most part, um, you kind of find your own. You know, find your own way up with your own crew, I don't know, just just that. I mean, it's more of a warning for me is like, hey, if you want to do this, it takes a minute, it's a little bit feast, or famine, a lot of famine. So if you're willing to do that I don't know, I just talk to them, but you'd still say move here, forget they're 16.
Speaker 2:Maybe they're 25, right, and they've got two kids and a wife. Leave the family and move here.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And pursue your dreams and send money back to the family.
Speaker 1:It's funny because some people will be like man, I want to be a singer, but I, you know, like it's, that's been really hard. So I think I'm just going to write songs for other people. Sometimes that's a conversation which is like, okay, it can't just be, it's really hard. You know. You can't be like, well, I think I'll just write hits for other people. Like you are, you know, and I'm like, well, hold on, that's really tough it. You know, 11 years in town, um, so it depends on their plan, it depends on the person. I mean, all you can say is just pray through it and try and see what happens, just write stuff. I keep always tell them not to write b versions of what's already out there. That's usually what happens. You know they're chasing or they're like, okay, I'm gonna write songs that sound like that because those are working. When it's the opposite of that, it's like what, what can you bring to the table that we don't already have, you know, in our staff or on the radio, or that our artists didn't have already, you know. So it is still happening.
Speaker 1:I mean, I have a bunch of friends that there are a lot of first time triple play award winners, a lot of first time number one getters, which I love to see, and that's really a positive thing, because it doesn't seem like that's happening but it is. You know, a lot of new people coming up kind of taking over, so that's fun to see. It took them this long and they're kind of doing it. And the way they did it was offer something different than people were hearing and who knows, I mean everybody's different. So there's no just but the same thing.
Speaker 1:And I say I was taking care of people at ASCAP BMI. I definitely had a couple people sent to me by people who worked at ASCAP Robert, phil, harden, people like that, me, hunter phelps back in the day he's not there anymore, but there are some of those people out there that still care, that want to help writers and help them land somewhere. So just getting real specific about your, your plan, your goal and just I'm still definitely down to tell people move here, do it, go to everything, try it out, see what you think you know it's a hard gig, it's a failure business and you know people talk about baseball.
Speaker 3:If you fail seven out of ten times, you're successful.
Speaker 1:Right well, as a songwriter it's, maybe not for you, but for 99 out of 100 you're still successful.
Speaker 3:You're failing a lot most a lot.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what you got to kind of trial and see if you can take that or if you can stomach it right um I love it about getting you know.
Speaker 6:I told somebody the other day like find, find your crew, yeah, find your crew, where you know when you go in, whether you get something great that day or not, you're going to feel good about what you're doing, you feel comfortable, you know, not afraid to suck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a big deal. I mean, it's a shortcut world right now, you know. So everybody's trying to figure out how can I? There was somebody on the plane the other day that for some reason knew who I was and was asking about those questions. They had their nashville trip set up and it was to. It was like five meetings with organizations, you know. I was like I'm gonna go to the whatever, I'm trying to get into cma and the ac, whatever they are, all the, all the things. And um, I was like what are you writing, you know? And there's like, oh, I mean I was doing more networking and I'm just like I don't even know if I did that. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's, I don't remember doing that, I didn't play.
Speaker 4:I remember spending my time dealing with rejection right and getting good at it yeah and just writing more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, writing with new people, yeah, and I was like hey, what I would do? Go to writers around, ask somebody to write after it. If you hear something you know, play them a verse course. You have to see what happens. You know, like go right more than uh. I mean, sometimes people can get lucky and get a thing or two because they're in the right place the right time, but as far as career wise, it's definitely you got to do the work and it whittles them way down. The people that are willing to do the work you talk about writing that's a 200 songs a year for seven years away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's tough, you know you got that right so, yeah, just, I do love giving people advice, but it is harder now. Used to be like dude, move nashville, it's great, come on now it's like all right, save up some money first, you know, yeah, and come here and see and see what happens. But but, but thankfully we've. We've had a lot of guys have success with, you know that have published deals for the first time. Um, so that's the best I can do is try to provide them with a little bit of a inside mentorship or whatever and be hard on their songs.
Speaker 1:Not, I mean, hunter phelps got a triple play and he he said at the podium everybody was being super nice to me and tape room and thanking us. And he said he remembered when he played me songs and he said everybody else told him why they were awesome and I told him why they weren't. And he said Ashley told me why all my songs sucked. And after that meeting I knew that's where I wanted to write. I thought that was interesting, that's great. And he got there a little bit quicker than a lot of his friends did because he was just like okay, that's what I want to know. What am I doing? What isn't appealing about these or whatever, so long as that's the mindset and you're wanting somebody to tell you what you're doing wrong or what you could do better, and not just say killer smash and all that stuff good in the moment, but it's not not usually true, you know.
Speaker 1:So be willing to take it and to work on it, and if it's, not in the cards.
Speaker 3:It's not in the cards. You know there's other stuff to do. That's been an incredible conversation. Ashley, we can't thank you enough, seriously for your time all of that. Uh, we hope you guys had as much fun as we did. Uh, from the patriot mobile studios, this has been the try that in a small town podcast. Thanks, thanks, ashley.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you guys Appreciate you both Love you.
Speaker 5:Make sure to follow along, subscribe, share rate the show and check out our merch at trythatinasmalltowncom.