Try That in a Small Town Podcast
In 2023, Jason Aldean's groundbreaking song and video "Try That In A Small Town" resonated with a resurgence of conservative values in America. The writers of the song, Kurt, Neil, Tully, and Kelley, took the opportunity to launch the Try That In A Small Town Podcast. This platform allows them to reveal the true inspiration behind the song and discuss the importance of common-sense values. With a lineup of influential guests, the hosts will entertain you with the stories behind their music, while also addressing challenging topics affecting our communities and country.
Try That in a Small Town Podcast
From Super Bowl Dynasty to Micah Parsons Trade: Ed Werder Tells All :: Ep 73 Try That In a Small Town
Ed Werder's authoritative voice on all things Dallas Cowboys brings three decades of perspective to our deep dive into the franchise's most pressing issues. The veteran reporter, who began covering America's Team in 1989, doesn't mince words about the controversial Micah Parsons trade: "Almost nothing the Cowboys can do can justify trading Micah Parsons." Werder compares this move to the historic Herschel Walker deal but notes a crucial difference—Parsons is entering his prime at 26, while Walker was further along in his career.
The conversation shifts to a fascinating exploration of Jerry Jones' true motivations. Does the owner define success as Super Bowl victories or simply keeping the Cowboys at the center of the NFL conversation? Warder suggests the latter might be true, noting that while Jones claims he'd "write any check" for another championship, he refuses to make the one sacrifice that might matter most—relinquishing his general manager role. "He'll never do that," Warder states definitively.
We dive into the Netflix docuseries "America's Team," where Werder features prominently, sharing firsthand accounts of the dynasty years. He reveals the inside story of how he broke the news of Jimmy Johnson's firing after Jones personally told him, "I'm going to fire that MF-er." Thirty years later, the Jones-Johnson relationship remains fractured, with neither man having fully moved past their bitter split. Werder also provides sobering insights into Troy Aikman's playing career, revealing the quarterback suffered so many concussions he sometimes couldn't remember playing entire games—a stark reminder of how NFL player safety has evolved.
For Cowboys fans wondering what to expect this season, Werder offers a measured assessment of the team's prospects without Parsons, projecting around nine wins given their challenging schedule. His encyclopedic knowledge of the franchise brings historical context to current challenges, delivered with the candor and insight that has made him a trusted voice in sports journalism for decades.
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Almost nothing the Cowboys can do can justify trading Micah Parsons. They would have to go out like they did in the Herschel Walker trade and get Emmitt Smith out of that deal, get Russell Maryland, kevin Smith, darren Woodson, those type of players out of this trade. And I just don't see that happening because, primarily, jimmy Johnson's no longer here to make those picks.
Speaker 3:Strong take from Ed. And it's Thanksgiving Day, away from our families. We get on our bus and there's just a big tin thing full of fried chicken. Nothing, just fried chicken. I thought maybe even a room with some turkey in it.
Speaker 2:No, I'm blaming Jerry Well.
Speaker 3:Jerry's in charge, jerry's very hands on.
Speaker 4:He didn't have time to check on your chicken, does? Jerry Jones is in charge, jerry's very hands on.
Speaker 2:He doesn't have time to check on your chicken. Does Jerry Jones define success as a Super Bowl win or the Cowboys being the most talked about relevant team in the NFL? Because I think you could make an argument it's the latter.
Speaker 1:He always says you can't imagine the size of the check I would write to win another Super Bowl. And my answer to that what if what's required to win a Super Bowl is you relinquishing the general manager's title and responsibility and hiring someone to do that? He'll never do that.
Speaker 5:The Try that in a Small town podcast begins now all right, we're back.
Speaker 2:This is a drive out in a small town podcast. Give it to me. It's like christmas, can't wait I love this guy tk kaylo thrash. Yeah, it's gonna be fun today and do and, uh, do it's football season right. Fun today and do, and do it's football season, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, and so because of that Tully was just talking about it we have been friends with Ed Warder for a long time. If you don't know the name, ed Warder, you should. Long-time Cowboys reporter, journalist, been on ESPN since 90-something. He is all things football and he is definitely all things definitive cowboys. Really great guy and just a super human being.
Speaker 3:He comes out to shows, hang out, we talk some football. He loves music, loves the songwriting process, always asks about it and he's just one of those guys that you like having around. He's just really appreciative, and we like talking football and he indulges us in our I know he's great and he is a super fan of songwriting, like he.
Speaker 2:That's like. I remember talking to him. He was just fascinated with the process and I wonder, maybe because of his craft too? He's a storyteller. You know, old print style, you have to tell a story, yeah, and so I think he appreciates that craft.
Speaker 4:Uh, he's he's gonna be fun, but I wish we could come up with songs as quick as he comes up with his oh gosh three or four minute answer to every question, or when he's you know, when he's live on tv. Could you imagine having to write a song live? He, he's sharp, he says he. I think he thinks you know we, we can come up with that stuff in three minutes.
Speaker 3:Right, some of them take. Plus, he's probably. You know about his job is that everybody probably sees what he writes and hardly anybody sees the other 500 songs you write.
Speaker 1:They don't hear those.
Speaker 3:That's true. Interesting 500 percentage for sure.
Speaker 6:His success ratio is a lot higher yeah.
Speaker 2:And we're going to definitely ask him about. I don't know, have you guys watched the Netflix docu-series? So good, just started it.
Speaker 4:I'm on episode six.
Speaker 6:I'm on episode two. I thought it was just a documentary and I was going to knock it out this morning. Yeah, but it's not.
Speaker 2:It's fascinating.
Speaker 6:I'm going to finish it.
Speaker 3:Fascinating it really is. I mean I love like I found like Netflix, a lot of those great sports things go on there, like the comeback of the Red Sox thing and this thing with the Cowboys. I just I love that. I mean I love those, yeah, Especially going back, because what I loved about it was, back in those days, of course, no social media, so you heard some of those stories, but then you and then you didn't hear some of those stories. That's what I mean. Like you didn't a lot of that. You just it's on to the game or it's on in the next week and it's a it's in the newspaper cycle or I don't know, it's just kind of cool to look at it now yeah, ed's featured all over that thing really funny.
Speaker 2:You know he's part of breaking the biggest story in sports, um, which is kind of a funny story. We'll let him tell that. I'm thinking of that. They were talking about the white house. Have you gotten to that?
Speaker 4:uh-uh oh boy, not there, I'm not talking about the one in dc either.
Speaker 3:No trouble, right I?
Speaker 1:did that michael ervin had.
Speaker 2:It was right next to the complex, yes, basically where they had their parties what would they call that complex?
Speaker 4:what was it called? The white house no, no, the one that was next to you, oh Valley, ranch Valley. Ranch yeah yeah, valley Ranch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have seen that I mean that's just rock and roll, that could just survive social media that's just rock and roll.
Speaker 3:No, that's not making it past the DMs. Let's not waste any more time. We got to get.
Speaker 4:Ed on here to talk about this stuff. This is going to be fun. Ed, thanks for being here, bud. Thank you brother.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks for the invitation. I appreciate it. Hey, anything going on in Cowboys world?
Speaker 1:Nothing right? No, I mean they're just getting ready to open their season against the defending Super Bowl champion Eagles, just kind of making a few minor personnel moves here and there to deal with the end of the roster. Maybe get some guys on special teams up but uh yeah, I mean other than micah parsons being traded, that's it yeah, hey.
Speaker 2:So just so you know this, this will probably air in about a week, so we'll probably be a game in when this does air, but we can't not talk about it. I'm sure you've talked about it ad nauseum down there, but we haven't give us your thoughts on the michael parsons trade. Are you, uh, are you ripping them? Are you okay with it?
Speaker 1:well, I came here in 1989 to cover the cowboys, the first year that jerry jones owned the franchise. It's when they made made the Hershel Walker trade, which was a bigger trade than this. That being said, I cannot recall, in all that time, jerry Jones and the Cowboys making a more consequential trade in terms of moving on from a great player early in his career at a position of huge importance like this. Like Herschel Walker was older, he played in the USFL. You know he wasn't really just beginning his prime years as a running back, like Micah Parsons seems to be now at age 26 and being one of the elite pass rushers in all of football. And I don't think it's as consequential because the Cowboys didn't get as much back. They got three first round picks and players from the Vikings for Herschel.
Speaker 1:And the biggest thing like ultimately, this trade is going to be judged on not only whether you know Micah Parsons fulfills his. You know he's on a hall of fame trajectory. If he finishes his career as that kind of player, a transcendent player, and transforms the Packers into a Super Bowl champion, then almost nothing the Cowboys can do can justify trading Micah Parsons. They would have to go out like they did in the Herschel Walker trade and get Emmitt Smith out of that deal, get Russell Maryland, kevin Smith, darren Woodson, those type of players out of this trade. And I just don't see that happening because, primarily, jimmy Johnson's no longer here to make those picks.
Speaker 2:Strong take from Ed.
Speaker 3:God, ed, I just love hearing your voice and there's so much we want to talk about, but we'll get back to that. But I just want to. You know we met you a few years ago. You came out to a couple shows Big music fan. We love having you out. First and foremost. You know you're a great fan and a great friend to us, so thanks for coming out and supporting us. But every football season, me and Kurt, we're like we got to check in with Ed and when the Parsons trade happened, like I said, we have to get Ed on now the trade and then and then the really great Netflix cowboy special, the series that you're on a lot, which I think that's fantastic and you're amazing in it. But so I'll go back to the Parsons thing real quick. So the vibe in Dallas. It has to be very unpopular, I would think it feels like it is. There's a lot of question marks around it.
Speaker 1:A week later, the fan base seems to have turned its attention toward the beginning of the season. It's interesting because of the dynamic that the fan base has really turned against Jerry Jones and the Jones family. They're tired of 30 years of not getting to the NFC Championship game much less the Super Bowl to the NFC Championship game much less the Super Bowl. They've had these three teams during the Mike McCarthy coaching era where they won 12 straight games, 12 games three years in a row and did nothing in the playoffs the only team in history to win that many games and not at least reach a championship game. And so the fan base is really conflicted here because they hate what the front office has done. They don't like Jerry Jones being the general manager and at the same time they're not really that into Micah Parsons either, because while he's been a great player again, they've achieved nothing in the postseason since he's been here, and it's almost like they view him as sort of the defensive equivalent of Dak Prescott, right? A guy who puts up dominant numbers at his individual position during the regular season and then can't elevate his game in the postseason against the better teams in the league and in the playoffs when it really matters. And so I think fans are sort of torn as to, you know, how they feel about this whole thing, other than I think they're ready to just move on from it and play the games Now.
Speaker 1:I think not having Micah Parsons greatly compromises what this team is capable of this season. They're already starting, you know, as the third-best team in their own division because the other two teams, two of the other teams Philadelphia, which won the Super Bowl, in Washington, which has Jaden Daniels they went on to play the NFC Championship game last year. So the Cowboys are clearly starting the season third in their division, with or without Parsons, and you know they didn't have a great season. They were horrible last year on defense, even with Parsons. Which does that mean they're going to be worse this year?
Speaker 3:or does that mean they're going to be worse this year? Or does that justify what Jerry did? Ed, you're like Yoda. You're like football, Dallas Yoda.
Speaker 2:That's fair. Hey, telly mentioned the docuseries, america's Team, and there's a bunch that we want to ask you about that. But the one thing that I want to start with, I was thinking about us. You know we've all been to like a bunch of number one parties for songwriters and when you do these parties, all the writers get a chance to speak and then somebody says something how the song was created. And you kind of look over and go that ain't how it was. And I was wondering if you watch that docuseries and you see it all play out and everybody's take and somebody says, oh, this is how it went. You're like I don't remember it.
Speaker 1:That way, was there any?
Speaker 2:moments like that.
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, you mentioned songwriting, and you know I'm amazed by the brilliance of songwriting.
Speaker 1:I don't know how, by the brilliance of songwriters. Go on. I don't know how. As you've seen, it takes me four minutes to answer the most basic question and you guys tell somebody's entire life story in three minutes or less most of the time. So I think what you guys do is truly amazing. I'll never forget that one of the times I came out to the show was out in Frisco, texas, and I walked in. I'd just been laid off by ESPN in 2017. And Jason says to me what the F is ESPN thinking. So I appreciated that. And then you guys also introduced me to Banana Ball. Like I didn't know anything about the Savannah Bananas until I saw you guys at Backstage Dallas watching it while waiting for the show to start. But anyway, yes. So the documentary it was interesting. I'm glad I was a part of it.
Speaker 1:I used language. I would probably prefer not be associated with me, but I used the F-bomb, quoting Jerry directly, which I thought was important. I tried to use the abbreviation, but the Netflix people just weren't having it. They insisted that I say the word, and so I did.
Speaker 1:But one of my motivations for doing it was I'd been told by the producers that on the night when I was in the bar and Jerry stopped me and insisted on telling me he was going to fire Jimmy Johnson repeatedly, and it led to the end of their partnership within a week that Jerry was claiming that some of the things we used in that story in the newspaper 30 years ago was off the record material, and so I felt it was important to be there to testify, sort of add my testimony and make sure that part of the story was accurately told. I think for the most part everything was accurately told. I think it's just so interesting that all these years later, you know Jimmy Johnson still hasn't gotten over Jerry saying 500 guys could coach this team and win, and Jerry hasn't gotten over that Jimmy denied him any credit for rehearsal walker training.
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Speaker 4:You know I've been drinking this every songwriting session today.
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Speaker 2:Let's go back to you talking about how great we are as songwriters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was really hard to find those people to throw beer on your show.
Speaker 6:Hey, go ahead, galo. Oh, I was just curious. You know, like on the songwriting front, like have you ever pursued that or fooled around with it? Are you just interested in writing or just appreciate the craft?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just, I totally respect the craft. I would love to know the secrets to it, if there is any such thing. But the thing that amazes me the most, beyond what I already said about how you can condense somebody's life story into three verses, is how you, in most cases, from my understanding you actually do the music first and then put put the lyrics together, which I can't imagine.
Speaker 6:How you do that well, I mean, there's really no rhyme or reason, I just like to be like tully and just get a guitar and jump around.
Speaker 1:I was interested in music. That happens to my parents, my what? My parents got me a guitar one year for christmas and I looked at it and I'm like uh, dad, I'm, I'm left-handed. And so he, this is a guitar for right-hmas. And I looked at it and I'm like uh, dad, I'm, I'm left-handed and so he. This is a guitar for right-hander, so he just takes it and turns it around the other way. There you go, problem wow, that's awesome hey, um.
Speaker 2:So as I watched that uh docuseries, this kept coming to my mind and I thought this before, but as I'm watching it, I can't stop thinking about it. Does jerry jones define success as a super bowl win or the cowboys being the most talked about relevant team in the nfl? Because I think you could make an argument. It's the latter.
Speaker 1:Right. I think it's interesting that in this documentary and many times before and certainly I expect him to say it again going forward he always says you can't imagine the size of the check I would write to win another Super Bowl. And my answer to that, like I think some of the players in that period would say but what if that's not what's required to win a Super Bowl? What if what's required to win a Super Bowl is you relinquishing the general manager's title and responsibility and hiring someone to do that? He'll never do that. I don't think it's accurate for him to say I'd do anything to win another Super Bowl, because he clearly won't. He might spend a lot of money to win another Super Bowl, but he won't give up being the general manager. He told us at the end of last season, following a game, that people asked me when I bought the franchise did I buy this as an investment? Did I buy it for something to leave for my kids? And he said no, I bought it for the job opportunity it presented for me. In other words, I'm going to be the lifetime general manager and the results of my performance have nothing to do with it. Everybody else in the organization is judged on their performance, except for the general manager and anybody else named Jones. But I do think that Jerry likes being prominent in the headlines and he said hey, when it gets quiet around here, when it's dull, I like to stir it up and that's what he does and that's why there's a documentary like this.
Speaker 1:Most franchises would never want this done, but he loves that, do. I think he wants to win. Yeah, I think he's committed to winning to a point, to the point I just said I think he'd pay anything. I think he'll make any move he thinks would be in the interest of winning, although I think he just made one that contradicts that statement, and partly because I think he got personal about it and let his money get mad. But I think he's committed. I think he wants to win another super bowl. He's 82, he doesn't really have time to waste. But you would never know that based on the results of the way this team is played when he told at a party that night, I meant I meant to ask you earlier.
Speaker 3:Uh, when he, when he told you he was gonna gonna fire jimmy, did you think he was joking at first, like like, did I just hear that right? Or did like when he first said that, or did you know that?
Speaker 2:holy shit, he's serious and, ed, this is to let people know this is the biggest sports story it really could be of all time in the NFL. This was a massive, massive story. But, amwatali, did you think that that was a joke?
Speaker 1:Well, so to put it in some kind of context here, the cowboys had won back-to-back super bowls. They were a prominent rising young team that seemed capable of winning several more, or at least contending, uh, for several more super bowl titles. They'd already won two in a row, and there are we had. We had seen some indications that there was some level of jealousy between the two. You know, jerry got really mad when the week they were going the final week of the 92 season they were I guess it was the 92 season they were going to play the Giants to try and win the division on the last day of the season. They were going to play the Giants to try and win the division on the last day of the season and Jimmy was asked about Jacksonville, wayne Weaver, the new owner of the expansion team, being interested in potentially hiring Jimmy, and Jimmy said he would be intrigued and Jerry thought that was an obvious public indication of disloyalty and so I went up to.
Speaker 1:Jerry that next time I saw Jerry was at the game that day and I went up to Jerry in the press box and I said, jerry, I know what you said. I know that you're upset about this, but what if Jimmy won you another Super Bowl? Would you maybe then relent and let him out of his contract? And Jerry said what if he won me another Super Bowl? What if I won him another Super Bowl? And so you combine all of that with you're walking out of the bar at the owner's meetings and Jerry grabs you by the pants leg and says don't leave now. And I say, why not? He says you're going to miss the story of the year. What's the story of the year? I'm going to fire that MF and Jimmy Johnson Come on.
Speaker 2:Ed, You've got to say the word. You've got to say the word. Ed, you've got to say the word, You've got to say the word Ed.
Speaker 1:No, I think you have higher standards. By appearances. To the contrary, I've heard you have higher standards and so no, I mean the intensity with which he said it. He said it repeatedly. It was really the only point he was trying to make. My biggest concern was there's two other writers here who are just here because a free beer hasn't run out and I've got to get rid of them to protect the story. But I did think that this would blow over and that Jimmy left the meetings, put it on the record for us so we could report it, and then left the meetings for emphasis and just kind of wanted Jerry to twist in the wind for a while. But I went to Emmett Smith's football camp in Pensacola it was my next assignment three days later and when I saw Jimmy at the airport that day he was madder than when he got in his Corvette and left the owner's meetings.
Speaker 6:Man, that's interesting when you said that there are two other reporters there and they were hearing the same thing and you're like, all right, I got to get rid of these guys so you can have the story.
Speaker 6:It's the same thing with us, like to these guys, so you can have the story. It's the same thing with with us, like if we're at a party or a bar or anybody, and somebody's having a normal conversation and they're generally not even a songwriter they'll just say something and you'll think, oh god, I hope nobody else recognizes that it's a hit idea I love that idea and you're just kind of looking around. You're putting your phone real quick.
Speaker 3:You know that's funny so yeah, so then switcher comes in which is a completely different vibe from Jimmy, but watching the documentary it seemed like all the players really liked playing for him. Is that the case? Was that it around there? They seemed to really love him.
Speaker 1:Well, jerry made the statement that offended Jimmy and said 500 coaches could win Super Bowls with this team and its talent. And so, almost to prove the point, he didn't go and hire the next most likely guy to win a Super Bowl, he went and hired the guy who was least likely among that 500. Right, he hires Barry Switzer, who's been retired from Oklahoma for five years. You know he's totally happy with life in Norman, oklahoma. Being retired. Had never had any ambition on coaching in the NFL, much less inheriting a two-time Super Bowl winning team. But ultimately it was like too good an opportunity and the thing Switzer has said to me is hey, you've got to give me credit, at least I didn't screw it up. Somebody else might have screwed it up. I didn't screw it up, and this you know, jerry.
Speaker 1:Jimmy was very hard on the players and some of those guys, like Troy and Emmett Michael, you know, early in their careers they experienced three and 13 and one and 15. And so they only knew one way to win and it was Jimmy's way. And so I would say the players who were not ultra-competitive, who weren't driven, who didn't have the greatest work ethics, those guys embraced Switzer and the easier lifestyle he provided on the practice fields. He wasn't as demanding but it bothered guys like Aikman. Aikman then felt like now I can't just be the starting quarterback. Now I've got to assume the role Jimmy had here as a head coach and I've got to be the guy who kicks everybody's ass. I've got to be the guy who holds everybody to the standard.
Speaker 1:That created problems. He had played for Switzer, switzer recruitment to Oklahoma everybody's ass. And I've got to be the guy who holds everybody to the standard and that created problems. He had played with Switzer for Switzer. Switzer recruited him to Oklahoma. I mean he broke his leg against Miami and Switzer actually helped him get to UCLA called Terry Donahue. So Aikman had a very favorable opinion of Switzer and told us hey, you guys are going to like this guy. And we did. He was great headlines, he was quite a character. But Troy was surprised, I think in a short space of time, with just how much Barry had lost his competitive edge in those five years.
Speaker 2:You know you mentioned Troy and we're lucky enough to know him a little bit, but it was fascinating watching his part in this docuseries. And one of the things I didn't know was, I guess what after the third season when he got hurt and the cowboys went on that run, they got into the playoffs. He could have started, but jimmy chose steve berline instead that he asked his agent to explore a trade. I actually don't and didn't remember that. Was that a big deal? Did it go very far, or can you talk? And the relationship he had with jimmy was fascinating, I thought, and how they finally got to a point where they understood each other. But I didn't remember the trade request. Had that ever become public?
Speaker 1:it wasn't really widely reported um early in his career and I thought, if you asked me which you didn't um, but I'm going to tell you because that's how I do it um, the.
Speaker 1:The storyline to me that wasn't represented by this documentary that should have been and I think Jerry Jones has made this point too in some interviews is the Steve Walsh acquisition. Remember, the Cowboys drafted Troy Aikman first overall in April and a few weeks later came the supplemental draft and Jerry reached out to Troy and said, hey, troy, we might exercise a pick in this draft, we might draft a quarterback, we might take Tim Rosenbaugh from Washington State, and Aikman was fine with that. And Jerry said, for the purpose of trading and Troy was fine with that, but he wasn't fine with being told that and have him draft Steve Walsh who had just won a national championship for Jimmy Johnson and so many of the Miami coaches he brought with him to Dallas. And so Troy felt, you know, he lost trust in those two right almost from the start. And then to have that experience with, you know, steve Berline where, hey, we're finally competitive, I get hurt. I assume I'm getting my job back when I'm healthy because I'm the franchise quarterback and they stay with Steve Berline yeah, I think those two things really eroded whatever trust there was.
Speaker 1:And you know, I think at the time Jimmy wasn't convinced Troy Ackerman was going to be a Super Bowl winning quarterback. I mean, he never believed, until he actually saw him do it, that he was going to be a Dan Marino-like figure in the nfl among quarterbacks, not statistically, but in terms of being a dominant player who could challenge for championships, you know, on an annual basis, which he proved capable of I mean, speaking of acheman, one thing that stood out in that the hits that he took, oh my god, and like playing through that you forget, like that era of football, I mean watching it, you know, like man, he got just crushed and just kept rolling.
Speaker 3:Doesn't remember the game, you know, which I thought was really crazy, just to think about that. Like what did he say? Nine concussions, was it more than that? It was more than that. I think it was like in the teens, maybe.
Speaker 1:And I, what did he say? Nine concussions, was it more than that? It was more than that. I think it was like in the teens maybe.
Speaker 1:I think the public perception is that Troy retired because of the accumulation of the concussions and that sometimes he would be twice concussed with a single hit. He'd get hit and he'd be concussed. Then because of the injury history he would sort of black out momentarily and couldn't protect himself when he hit the ground and so then he might suffer another brain injury hitting the ground. But Troy will tell you that it was really his back that drove him out of the game when it did that and Jerry Jerry's personnel move. But yeah, I think people forget that.
Speaker 1:In the 93 game and I remember he got hurt, concussed he got hit by Dana Stubblefield in something he described as not looking terribly violent and you know, bernie Kosar actually came in and finished the game as the backup quarterback. Aikman went to the hospital. They had to black out his entire room. Back, aikman went to the hospital. They had to black out his entire room and he described, as you said, going back the next day and watching the game on tape. Didn't remember playing in the game at all, all he remembered was the pregame fight, and so my thought was well, that year there wasn't an extra week between the Super Bowl and championship game. Under today's concussion protocols, I'm almost sure Aikman would not have been allowed to play in that second Super Bowl and championship game. Under today's concussion protocols, I'm almost sure Aikman would not have been allowed to play in that second Super Bowl in Atlanta when they beat.
Speaker 3:Buffalo. It's crazy and I tell you this, that guy, we did a benefit thing at his house in Dallas. We went down with Aldean and did like an acoustic setup. In his garage In his garage.
Speaker 1:You know what I remember about that. I didn't get invited.
Speaker 3:You were on the list but we go in and Troy's so great anyway. But I remember we showed up early and I'm just like walking through the house, I'm like exploring his house and I look through the glass and he's in his gym working out and I'm like that dude, I tell you what could play. He looks like he could play right now. I mean he was working out. I'm like man that is intimidating.
Speaker 1:I mean I have not seen biceps that big since mine. He's in the best shape of his life right now. Yeah, he would tell you he's in the best shape of his life right now, at what? 56 or or whatever it is. I mean I know he goes on these exotic vacations and goes with friends and stuff and it, if they go out on a boat or whatever, it frustrates them that they all have to go to dock because acheman has to spend two hours working out super nice guy yep hey, ed this fascinates me.
Speaker 2:you're like this incredibly accomplished journalist, reporter, insider, you've been doing it. How many years have you been doing it?
Speaker 1:I graduated from college in 1982, and I've been doing it full-time ever since I was writing for my college paper, my local hometown paper before that Wow.
Speaker 2:So talk about this, because obviously the world has changed. The way people digest news is different. It used to be. I mean, you're a news reporter. You used to write for the newspaper. That doesn't help people gather information anymore. You've got to be on TV, you've got to be a social media presence. How has that been for you trying to reinvent what you do and stay relevant in those terms?
Speaker 1:Well, I had the good fortune to have a nice know career as a print reporter. Uh, I covered the cowboys for the dallas morning news for five years and that was during that period of time we've talked about, when they were. This documentary was basically shot, the essence of it when they had all those great teams and characters and um. And then I switched to television and went to espn for 26 years. So I was fortunate to have a career in television as well as print. And yet, and I'm still, I'm still covering the team on a part-time basis during the season for a local ABC affiliate in Dallas and I'm fortunate to have that opportunity. But yeah, it is different because you know, back when I was a writer, it didn't matter what I knew, as long as I knew whatever there was to know by 10 o'clock at night, right, Like there wasn't, nobody was going to beat me at two in the afternoon or three in the afternoon or two. You know 205.
Speaker 1:But now, like you're on the clock all the time and everybody, there's always been a sense when you're covering the Cowboys with most teams is, hey, it's just the local beat guys for the most part With the Cowboys it's like everybody thinks they cover the Cowboys. Every journalist in America and some internationally think they cover the Cowboys beat. Sometimes there are people who aren't even credentialed to games. They don't go to practices, they never talk to the players.
Speaker 1:The fact that people don't necessarily distinguish between the credibility of those people and the people who are out there every day and are out there even periodically, like I am, is frustrating. The fact that they put all media together and don't look at who's accurate and who's not accurate is frustrating. But yeah, it's a totally different thing now where somebody can break news any minute of the day and it might be the biggest story in sports for five minutes and then there might be a bigger story somehow. I didn't know the Micah Parsons thing was going to happen at 4 o'clock. I found out on social media basically after I'd finished getting a shower, thinking I was done for the day. Yeah, it's a whole different world now. I can't imagine what it would have been like if there was social media back in the 90s when the you know Cowboy players were getting arrested and having the.
Speaker 1:White House escapades. That Michael Irvin described the White House.
Speaker 2:That was.
Speaker 1:the amazing thing to me too, was they got this guy, dennis Pedini, who was kind of their fixer. They described him as a fixer but they called him the inch-high private eye. He was a short guy and he was the guy who got them out of all kinds of jamming with the cops and so forth. But you know, obviously eventually that didn't work out so well for Michael Irvin and Eric Williams and some other players.
Speaker 6:Man, we need a fixer. Yeah, that'd be great Ed.
Speaker 4:We need a fixer. Yeah, that'd be great Ed. I'm a college guy. I'm a college. We didn't have pro sports in Alabama. I'm from Birmingham.
Speaker 3:You don't have college sports there either anymore.
Speaker 4:It's all pro now.
Speaker 3:Sorry, neil, I love you, it's all pro.
Speaker 4:Yeah right, Do you think Saban's ever crossed Jerry Jones' mind?
Speaker 1:Probably not as a head coaching candidate. We've seen Jerry really prefers people he's really familiar with and comfortable with, and I don't think he'd be comfortable with Saban because Saban would take too much attention, demand too much authority and diminish Jerry's role in a way that he would prefer to avoid, if at all possible.
Speaker 6:What about sideline reporters? So I'd read where it's like 20% of sideline reporters are female, but that's not what I see. It seems like it's a lot more than that. Do you think, over the course of time, that they will almost be all female?
Speaker 1:It kind of seems like that's the domain that they've conquered or been provided. There's a lot of good ones. There are some that I don't think are so great. I've done sideline reporting for Westwood One. I did it for Monday Night Football for a few years and there's a real art to you know talking to players before a game and getting interesting anecdotes and relevant information and then being able to react quickly to an injury, to get it updated, put it in context and get it back to the play-by-play guy before the next play starts. There's an art to doing that. Not everybody does it well, but there are a lot of people who do it exceptionally well. Yeah, I agree with you, it seems like a lot more than 20%.
Speaker 6:Yeah, and maybe it's because it's easier for you know an attractive female to get access to the coach or the players or an injury report than it is a guy.
Speaker 1:Well, the thing, that's great about being a sideline reporter for one of the broadcast entities is you get access to a number of people privately in the production meetings, right, and so that's a huge benefit. Now some people I know make calls on their own or set up interviews at the stadium or on the phone the week before through PR or through their own relationships with guys, and the most ambitious do all those things to try to acquire as much good information as possible, not knowing how much of any of it will ever be used. But yeah, I think there are some who do it journalistically. Well, I don't think it's great when some of them say, oh, I didn't get the coach, so I just made up the report.
Speaker 1:I think that does a disservice to everybody in our profession print, radio, TV, regardless of what your role is, we don't make things up ever. If you don't have anything, say you don't have anything. I told the Westwood One people multiple times hey, I don't have anything. Say you don't have anything. I told the Westwood One people multiple times hey, I don't have anything on this, so they deal with it. But to say you made things up and embellish things, I think, Boy, it'd be real dangerous.
Speaker 4:It'd be real dangerous if songwriters got that job, wouldn't it? We'd be making up shit all the time.
Speaker 3:I always love it. I always love it at halftime. And the poor coaches and and the reporters where are they getting these questions from? You know they're, they're, they're down, you know, by 20 points, 21 points. And reporters like, what do you got to do to win? And the coaches, you can see them just steaming. You know like, and they're stuck there and it's like, yeah, like I mean, do we really need to do that? To the coaches, I mean, let them coach the game. What do you want to do differently? What should you do differently? Well, I don't know. They ran for 300 yards and stopped the run.
Speaker 1:That's the, that's the networks building that into their deals. Right they're. They're trying to show they get unique access to the people who are making the decisions. Even on game day, even in the middle of a game, there's almost never any relevant information exchanged. If you're, if you're fortunate, you ask a good question to get, get somebody who's engaged enough to trust you in that time frame, which is difficult then you might get an interesting update on an injury or if they're making a position change at quarterback or something like that. But for the most part it's minutiae and it's of no real benefit to the viewer. It's just look at us, we get access to this guy.
Speaker 2:Hey, neil brought up college football and just because you're in Texasas, we have to ask how did uh arch manning conversation go in texas, uh, over the last day or two?
Speaker 1:uh well, I think arch manning has. He and uh, caitlin deborah have sort of been been acquitted by what? Happened to Bill Belichick last night. The focus on those two guys ended last night when Bill Belichick was getting what so many feel like he deserved, and I watched some of that. I was at the game when I reported for ESPN when TCU and.
Speaker 1:Sonny Dyches coached against Deion Sanders in his first FBS game and they lost. It was a high-scoring game. They lost by three. So I always blame Sonny Dyches for what Deion Sanders became that year the celebrity that he became at. Colorado that year and, yeah, last night I was wondering at the end of the game. I wonder how many Super Bowls Sonny Dyches would have won if he had gone to the NFL, if Bill Belichick won six.
Speaker 3:Yikes Ed.
Speaker 1:I always said, hey, this is off the record right, it's just us.
Speaker 2:Just us Nobody watches this podcast.
Speaker 4:I always thought the Cowboys they never drafted enough Bama players over the years. They never did. And I thought Derek Lassick got a roll A roll into the deal. Derek Lassick, yeah.
Speaker 1:They have Trayvon Diggs, Tyler Booker Still not enough.
Speaker 6:I don't think those numbers are going to improve this year, based on the one-week performance.
Speaker 4:We're not talking about the game Saturday, we're talking about them. I'm talking about years past.
Speaker 2:Ed, we know you've got to run, but give us a Cowboys regular season win projection.
Speaker 1:Well, they have a first-time head coach in Brian Schottenheimer who's deserving of this opportunity. They've got to win early, not only for a player buy-in to Schottenheimer trying to create this different culture. And you know he wants to be Dak, to be under center, he wants to be able to run the football, he wants to be physical. And you know the back half of the schedule is virtually impossible. I mean they play four games against the Eagles and Commanders combined, the two teams that played in the NFC Championship game last year. Then they play the AFC West, which had three teams in the playoffs last year, and the NFC Central or NFC North, which sent three teams to the playoffs last year. So they have a really challenging schedule. Even if they were a really good team, it'd be tough to win 10 or 11 games. I think the over-under gets interesting at nine with the Cowboys.
Speaker 2:All right, I love it you guys got anything else.
Speaker 1:They just think it's seven and a half. So do with that what you will. Yeah, I'm taking the under.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:Ed, we really. I mean, thank you so much. That sounds like a really bad season for me to come.
Speaker 3:Sorry, yeah, you're, you're the best. So, seriously, we love having you out to shows, we love talking to you, always text us and check in on us and you're such a great friend to us and taking the time out on probably the busiest part of the year for you, ramp ramping up to the nfl season. Absolutely, we love you, appreciate you all the best of the family and you know, please come out and see us again soon, man, we we miss you, so you're the best time you're willing.
Speaker 1:100 miles, I'll be there, and if you send the private jet there's, there's no limit deal.
Speaker 6:We're still working, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1:Thanks for your friendship, Thanks for all the great opportunities to watch you guys do what you do so well and better than anybody else. Really appreciate your music. You know it hits me in the heart a lot Fly over states when I'm sitting on the plane going to wherever I'm going, man, that gets me.
Speaker 6:That's that guy right there.
Speaker 4:Well done, sir. Thank you, sir, thank you.
Speaker 2:Love you. Thanks, buddy, Thanks Ed. Football is back, dude. Football is back and Ed was awesome. He delivered all the goods that I was hoping he would.
Speaker 3:Could have went on for a long time, but he's busy A lot of stuff going on in Dallas.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. And just so people know we're actually recording this right before the season opener for the Cowboys. So yeah, he's a little busy. That's a layer in about a week.
Speaker 3:What is your favorite storyline of this season so far Of the NFL season?
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's a lot, they'll get to us later, taylor yeah that's okay, we'll get back to you, taylor.
Speaker 6:I'm just going to cuddle my Alabama football. We're coming with that Because I don't know what the storyline is. I'm just curious, you've got.
Speaker 3:Parsons, which is going to be hard not to. That could turn Green Bay into.
Speaker 2:It just fascinates me how the Cowboys are so relevant and yet they're just not good. They're okay to be relevant, which kind of made me ask that thing about Jerry, because I don't think he actually cares if they win a Super Bowl. He says he does, but how do you hire these coaches or keep these coaches or trade away your best players?
Speaker 3:I actually think.
Speaker 2:I disagree with that.
Speaker 3:I think he wants to win, so bad it kills him. I just think he also thinks he knows the only way to do it, and which is what which is his way, whether that means back in the day with the hersel walker thing, or whether it means not getting there with parsons. He, he really believes that his way is the way but it's been.
Speaker 2:I know they say it's been 30 years since they've won, so it's obviously his way is not working.
Speaker 6:Yeah, and if you've changed head coaches and players and everything you know, at some point you know you might look and say, well, hey, could be me.
Speaker 2:When you're on your eighth marriage. Sometimes you should go, hmm.
Speaker 6:It's possibly I have some flaws it's possibly me, you know, but to be the GM and the owner and everything I think you know. Obviously he loves the Cowboys and liked the story from the old to you know as soon as he did that and got the $100 million you know for that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 6:I know exactly what I'm going to spend it on, you know, which is impressive. So I think he loves the Cowboys and he wanted to, you know, do everything and make it a family business. He said he was bound and determined. He says this will be a family business, or he wasn't going to do it, you know. So he got all his kids involved and everything. So I think for him to let go of it would almost be like a death in the family, for him to let go of that part of control.
Speaker 6:But I also know, just as a witness you know, being close to an artist, or so you know, once they get to a point where they're not just the artist but they want to be the artist and they're writing the songs, they also want to produce, they want to engineer, they want to pick up a different instrument. Maybe the fiddle player pick it up and say, hey, no, do it like this. Or maybe pick up a bass in their own hand and say, no, I want it to sound like this. And to me, in witnessing that, it was kind of like, oh, that's not good, because you can't be, great at everything.
Speaker 2:And when does that transformation take place, like with an artist or in the Jerry Jones thing, but relating it to music, yeah, what makes? Is it just to their head? Is it ego or what is?
Speaker 4:I don't know every bit of its ego. It always has been. It's ego has always been the destruction of a corporation or a career always yeah, or not being able to communicate.
Speaker 6:You know what, what they want, so much so that you have to pick it up and physically well, they don't play an instrument that's not your instrument.
Speaker 4:They don't listen to other creative minds. They think they're the only creative mind in the room.
Speaker 6:Yeah, that's when it gets dangerous.
Speaker 4:And that's when it starts going downhill.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And then there's dissension. All that. It's just like a snowball effect.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Of. Well, I guess he thinks you know. I guess he knows what he's talking about. I won't say anything anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got to tell you not to interrupt, but just talking about that really makes me think about Aldean and how he's never changed that one where they're making a record. He knows his role is in there. He's very comfortable with it.
Speaker 4:Listen, we don't need to build his ego up on this show. No, I'm just saying but it is, but he doesn't, he does not, but it is.
Speaker 3:It is rare, though, because we've been in a lot of situations producing people where it's like, wow, you're really going to tell us what to do. Okay, yeah, we're making a record with Jason, we're even producing with him. He likes it when people have their lane because he knows that that's their lane and they probably know more about that lane.
Speaker 2:That's part of any good business. I think all of our points but it disappears.
Speaker 3:That part of it disappears, a lot in it and with him it hasn't which I. Which part what disappears? Well, just just the the, the part of like letting people do their lot and it, and with him it hasn't which I which part?
Speaker 6:what disappears?
Speaker 3:what well, just just the the, the part of like letting people do their thing and trusting them once you're in charge, a lot of people.
Speaker 4:Once they're in charge, they go I'm in charge of everything, yeah, and then all of a sudden, they're an expert on everything. Well, it's like it happens to a lot of people.
Speaker 6:That's why I now agree. That's why I like what we're talking about on break is that's why I love co-writing, you know, because I don't have to try to get good at something I'm not good at. I just co-write with other people that are already gifted in that area. I don't have to worry about it, and then you just you focus on what makes you know that, that you feel like you're gifted at, spend your time getting better at that and people you trust in that scenario too, because you might think something is right.
Speaker 2:But if Neo goes, no, it's this, you go. All right, I trust you.
Speaker 4:No, I'll say no, what about this? I won't say no, it's this, but you know what?
Speaker 2:I'm saying is that if you collaborate and work with people that you trust, you relinquish some of your ego because you also trust them to know best as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, good point 100% you think we should go talk to Jerry Jones, should we have him on I?
Speaker 2:would love to have Jerry on. He is fascinating and he has succeeded in making the Cowboys the most talked-about team ever.
Speaker 3:I have a question for him what you got? So with Aldean, we played halftime there 2006.
Speaker 2:It was a long time ago.
Speaker 3:We played Hicktown, played halftime Thanksgiving Day, met Jerry Really nice. Remember that he came down on the field.
Speaker 4:It was awesome. He seems like a really good dude though.
Speaker 3:Amazing, so we do our performance. He came down on the field. He seems like a really good dude though. Amazing, so we do our performance. We had an amazing time and we get back to the bus and it's Thanksgiving Day. My question to Jerry Jones on this podcast.
Speaker 2:I know what you're going to say.
Speaker 3:Thanksgiving Day, away from our families, we get on our bus and there was just a big tin thing full of fried chicken. Nothing, just fried chicken. No, not even a.
Speaker 4:No green beans, no mashed potatoes, no turkey no turkey.
Speaker 3:I'm thinking to myself damn, this is the Dallas Cowboys man. It was like a catering thing of fried chicken with no sides.
Speaker 6:How old was he at this time?
Speaker 3:This was his old six, so do the math. I'm bad at it.
Speaker 4:Maybe, his vision was failing and he thought the chicken was a turkey, the bill it was the halftime, it was just us, it was just y'all yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, I thought maybe even a room with some turkey in it, but it shut us back to the bus. I'm like wow.
Speaker 2:It was an odd choice. They should have just went something completely different. You know hamburgers.
Speaker 3:Burgers Right, right, right, but fried chickens.
Speaker 4:You can't blame that on Jerry. It's one of the minions, no blaming Jerry. Well, Jerry's in charge.
Speaker 2:Jerry's very hands-on.
Speaker 4:He's not checking on the chicken. He's just not going to do it he doesn't have time to check on his chicken.
Speaker 3:He doesn't. I just thought that'd be the day. Yeah, that's a good shirt.
Speaker 2:Check on your chicken.
Speaker 3:I just figured that'd be the easiest day for any of that stuff. Just turkey, no matter where you are, turkey, yeah, anyway, that's my question, jerry, if you're listening to the Try that podcast, what were you?
Speaker 6:thinking about you. And what were you thinking about?
Speaker 3:You know what? Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yes, what were you thinking, jerry?
Speaker 3:Anyway, all right.
Speaker 2:Okay, anything else.
Speaker 6:Should we wrap this thing up, I think?
Speaker 2:we wrap it. That was pretty fun.
Speaker 6:It was fun, you know, I really liked him. He's so knowledgeable in just hearing him talk about all the players that he was. Every time he says a name like, oh yeah, I remember that player, but he's just spitting them off.
Speaker 4:He knows that stuff inside and out. I couldn't remember any of that stuff, even if I wrote it down. I wouldn't remember I couldn't, and studied it for a week. I couldn't remember all this.
Speaker 3:And when you hang out with him, he doesn't just like talk to hear himself talk, Like we'll ask him something and he'll spit out the answer and that's it. It's like he's not like name dropping or he's just telling these incredible stories. Yeah, and you're like tell us more, ed it's like.
Speaker 4:it's like what I and I told him that the cowboys didn't draft enough alabama players and he rattled off like yeah, he did and did and your point was valid.
Speaker 6:You know, they said there probably should have been more, based on all the incredible players that have come through.
Speaker 2:Right, but the fact that he knew the Alabama players, he knew them, he knew them. He just rattled them off. He didn't even think he wouldn't let you win that point.
Speaker 6:No, I wouldn't no.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. We love him, and his wife, jill, is awesome as well. Let's thank Patriot Mobile. Yes, let's also thank eSpacescom. Hey, we need to tell eSpaces, though. It's a little warm in here. We would like a little bit cooler. Our vent is not working.
Speaker 4:I'll talk to Purtle.
Speaker 3:Trying to sweat us out he watches right.
Speaker 2:Does he watch this thing? Yeah, Purtle has to watch.
Speaker 4:It's his building.
Speaker 2:It's his building. Well, get us a little air conditioning. I think, since we have a unique deal, I don't know if we complain too much Little things like that. But we do love the studio. It's great. Maybe just some air conditioning.
Speaker 3:I'll talk to.
Speaker 4:Perto Original glory. I'll play him around the house.
Speaker 3:The OG, the OG, the OG OG and the OG the.
Speaker 2:OG the.
Speaker 5:OG OG.
Speaker 2:And they were the OG. They were the first one that's been with us and, of course, we're very appreciative of them. If you're watching on YouTube, leave us a comment, leave us a review, give us five stars, download the episode. Follow us on X. Follow us on Insta at Try that Podcast. What other social platforms Are we on? Facebook? The old talk Are we on Facebook? We're on the talk.
Speaker 3:Only fans.
Speaker 6:Gotta be on the talk, only fans.
Speaker 3:Jim's only fans account.
Speaker 2:I think we're on only fans. We on Facebook.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I think we're on MySpace. We are on Facebook. Facebook, yeah, you're right, not MySpace. We're on Facebook.
Speaker 2:So go, follow, follow us. We want to thank all you guys for listening. As always, happy football season. Go Long Tully, go Vols Cheers. Look at this and there we go. This is the Try that in a Small Town Podcast. Thanks for listening.