Try That in a Small Town Podcast

How Don Mattingly Balances Old-School Grit With Today’s Game :: Ep 84 Try That in a Small Town Podcast

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A legend sits down and tells the truth. Don Mattingly takes us from a Nashville locker room soundtrack to the white-hot core of Yankees–Red Sox, from Steinbrenner’s pressure-cooker to a tiny adjustment that unlocked one of the wildest streaks in modern hitting. We get the human details you don’t see in a box score: the phone call that changed a relationship with ownership, the way a clubhouse becomes a small town, and the rush of watching your kid fall in love with the game from the warning track.

We dig into hitting with precision and humility. Don explains why his doubles came from using the whole field, how a simple cue from Bobby Murcer turned 1987 on its head, and what it really felt like to stand in against Randy Johnson’s sidearm thunder. He reframes the analytics era as a language shift—ride, run, horizontal movement—while still championing contact, tempo, and action. The pitch clock gets a thumbs up. The challenge-based automated strike zone, he argues, is quicker and more strategic than people realize. And the extra-innings runner? It ends games, but it bends bullpens.

Away from the lines, Mattingly Charities is building home libraries for underserved kids, aiming at the third-grade reading cliff with the urgency of a pennant race. We talk about hosting community events in airplane hangars, flying in artists for one-night sets, and creating nights where generosity feels like celebration. There’s space, too, for laughter—Seinfeld memories, golf handicaps gone dormant, and the odd night where Larry David practically pitches a Curb episode over dinner.

If you love baseball’s past and care about its future, you’ll feel at home here. Hit follow, share this with a friend who misses contact hitting, and leave a quick review to help more people find the show. Your notes shape what we do next.

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SPEAKER_07:

Who's the toughest pitcher? Who got in your head the the most?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh I don't know about in my head. Langston wore me out a little bit. Mark Langston got me good. Randy was Randy Johnson was no fun. I can't even imagine. This dude's like 6'11, and he was like, I felt like he delivered it about halfway to the plate, and he threw sidearm. So, and anytime he missed, it was like right at a left-hander's head. We went to Minnesota and Tommy John was pitching, and I had a record like that, I think it was 22 put-outs in a game. So Tommy John's throwing the ball on the ground. I'm catching it come across the infield, but that counts as a put-out for me instead of record. And George came out and said something about Madden Lee doesn't care about winning, all he cares about is records. Alright? And I was kind of like, uh like the fans were just angry in Boston. Right? I remember being on the bus, and maybe I hope this wasn't you as a kid. We're on the bus and we're going to the ballpark, and kids with his dad, he must be nine years old. He's shooting this bird. And dad's like, good boy.

SPEAKER_01:

The try that in a small town podcast. Begin.

SPEAKER_05:

Alright, this is the try that in the small town podcast. We are back. I noticed last week I was like, we're back. Here we are. Here we are. Hey, man.

SPEAKER_04:

You can't be on 12 all-time. You gotta give yourself some place to go. Have some dynamics.

SPEAKER_05:

I like it. Just like music. I like the somber start. Yeah. Somber start. We got thrash, KLO, TK, I'm Kurt. And you know, we are recording on Monday. Our latest podcast just came out, which our review of the CMAs is getting some action. Some people liked our episode, some people I think most of them agreed with us. I think most of them did as well. But it was it was really fun to see a lot of comments, a lot of views. So um I haven't read any yet. Did anybody reach out to any of you guys? I took a little too.

SPEAKER_04:

It took a little heat for you. It took a little heat? I mean, there's a few responses of the wheel. I can see why you would get a little heat. Well, I mean, look, I I I'm not a like Kelsey Ballerini fan or Megarmony and I got And you don't like swings. That's for sure. I got uh I got some messages uh from fans saying people do like Megamaroni and I like Kelsey Ballerini, and I'm like, okay, well I was wrong there. Okay. Do have a couple fans. I'm not sure. Why they matter at you because you don't? I mean who cares? I still don't think it's the the uh I'll say this, it's the they still don't have mass appeal. I think I think there's some fans, pockets of fans, but I mean I I'm gonna go down with the ship this one for a minute. For a minute. That's okay.

SPEAKER_03:

But but also encourage, I would encourage those people to listen to the whole episode, even though it's really long. Uh because there's other things that gets because you throw some really good compliments in there to a lot of people too. So I feel like I'm firm but fair.

SPEAKER_04:

I feel like I'm firm but fair.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, firm but fair.

SPEAKER_07:

And honest.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I mean, and I and I I think I responded to someone who said this is just my opinion.

SPEAKER_05:

None of this is as we said it, music is subjective. Just because you may not like something doesn't mean that a million other people do that's right. Get a podcast. Yeah. That's what I said. If you can afford it. Yeah, if you can afford it. Wow. That's good point.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know if you can do it. It's not easy. I don't think we can do it. It's not easy. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_05:

The comment of the night, right there. That's the comment of the night. So funny, I'm crying. Uh amazing DV, who is maybe firm but fair himself. He uh I think he enjoyed the conversation. He's coming around what Neil had said.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. I haven't read so do we have have something you can read?

SPEAKER_05:

Uh you know, I don't even know if my glasses are. Jim, will you read it to us?

SPEAKER_01:

I certainly can. Hold on, here we go.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh let's see. Stand by for Jim McCarthy.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Now I gotta pull it up again because I took a picture of it. Said, hey guys, I enjoyed the round table and banter between the group. I think Thrash's idea of the C CMA might be worth a try. Oh. I usually watch for the CMA for the performers only. I've seen enough award shows to know that the winners are not who truly deserve the win. Too subjective and political. Also, I didn't see Jason Aldeen on the list of performers, so I figured it wasn't worth the time the time.

SPEAKER_04:

That's a good comment. I love that. He's coming around. You know, I like I think the two of you have a really great thing. You're good for each other. That's what I say. I think you're good, because I think I think he's he's like Kurt said, he's firm but fair. You you take it well. Yeah. But I think when you guys agree, it's a it is kind of a beautiful thing. I don't know. The world seems unbalanced.

SPEAKER_07:

I know, you see, I know, it seems like the podcast is just gonna stop. I know. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_05:

We've hit a dead end. But I do like the amazing DV he's commenting. I love that a lot of people are commenting. Uh uh Kayler, did you have any where I saw you looking? Did you have some?

SPEAKER_03:

I had one on uh Instagram that uh Birdie from Birdie Jane? Birdie Jane Lane. Yeah, yeah, I saw that too. Yeah, she said if you ever want the real tea on the Riley Green Ella thing to reach out, she has some she's got some tea.

SPEAKER_05:

How does she have the tea?

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know. But she she has it.

SPEAKER_05:

So maybe we'll have to maybe uh I think she follows us on X as well.

unknown:

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, maybe so.

SPEAKER_05:

I that seems like similar to my theory. By the way, hold on to your theory. Maybe we have her call. If you haven't followed us on X, please do so. We'll we need to build that up. Go follow us on the X.

SPEAKER_07:

What's X? Twitter. Twitter. I mean yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Uh what was your theory?

SPEAKER_03:

You know, the MySpace thing.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, you're talking about the Riley theory. Yeah, I think Riley, I think Riley shot her down to some extent. And now is with Megan. Is that what Bert Bertie Jane says?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I don't know. I so we may maybe we get Bertie like to call in and leave us a message on that. That's a great idea. You know, we could do that because that then we could be her voice and she could tell us and because uh because I certainly don't know. But she's got a little she's got a little info.

SPEAKER_05:

Okay, that's good. Um but listen, that's uh our review of the review of the CMAs. Uh tonight, I know especially Tully and I will be geeking out. We have Don Mattingley on the podcast. Some people refer to him as Donnie Baseball. Uh it's pretty cool. We're uh we're excited to have Don. Yeah, great guy. Good get good get great guy.

SPEAKER_03:

He's one of the best players of all time, statistically and everything else. And for uh he's amazing.

SPEAKER_05:

100%. I've I I had the stats, but it's like six-time all-star, nine time gold glove. Won the MVP, won the batting.

SPEAKER_07:

I mean, yeah, one of the longest Wikipedia scrolls I've ever done.

SPEAKER_05:

We're gonna have to go to war again with the Hall of Fame. Yeah, oh yeah. And he's not in the Hall of Fame, which is a travesty. Really? Actually, I don't understand that.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, everything I saw is it was because of the back injury and the and then his average started going down to to a normal average.

SPEAKER_06:

He already did enough. He did enough to get injured.

SPEAKER_03:

It seems like, yeah, you so you're injured. So but even after that, he still came back and and had some success. I I don't get it.

SPEAKER_05:

Uh I don't think any of us get it. And what's interesting is he is a country music fan. I think we'll probably talk about that. We've he's been out to a couple shows. We've been able to talk to him and talk baseball, which has been exciting for us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um he lived in Nashville for a minute, right? Like in 81, he played for the Sounds, which was cool. You know, I thought that was way cool. I didn't had no idea.

SPEAKER_04:

I didn't either until I started doing even more research and sounds in 81. I was like, what's yeah, yeah. He was going to Twitty City then.

SPEAKER_07:

You're right. He was getting his gun for you.

SPEAKER_03:

You still had gillies up there where the naked statue was.

SPEAKER_07:

Broadway was dead. Yeah. There wasn't anything there except so he hadn't seen it.

SPEAKER_05:

He hadn't seen it. No. Uh, we're about to get to it, but make sure uh you go to patriotmobile.com, go see those good folks, put on the code SmallTown if you want to get a free month for that. Uh go get yourself some original glory beer, of course. And we're always thankful for eSpaces, and we're about to get to Don Mattingley. All right, Don. Thanks for joining us, man. Appreciate you being here. Oh, it's it's cool to be on. Appreciate being on. Oh, man. You know, uh, we got lots to talk about, like with you, but we want to start with us, actually. That's how we usually like to roll. We were just talking uh before we started here about how we met you, and you've been out to a couple shows, and you were talking about being at a Toby Key show as well. Um but so I'm assuming you like country music. Who like obviously you like Toby. You've come to see Jason. Who else do you like in the industry?

SPEAKER_02:

I like, you know, it's funny when you I played Nashville, right, in '81, and probably too young to really appreciate country music at that point. Uh well, and I didn't really grow up with country music. I grew up with all kinds, grew up kind of like CCR. My brothers, you know, were older than me, the Beatles, uh just a little bit of everything. Sly in the Family Stone. Uh I mean Bachman Turner Overdrive, just all kinds of different music because I got older brothers, so I listened to different stuff. Um and Country kind of came late. You know, Conway was in Nashville, and I didn't know who Conway was really at that point. I remember country music through my mom and dad, like hee-haul and shows like that, right? And I'm like way too young to appreciate any of that. Um but slowly going to New York, and it was funny because Goose Gossage, I don't know if you guys have ever met Goose, but Goose is crazy. So he takes us out to a concert in the Meadowlands. It was July 3rd, and I remember it because Reggetti threw a no-hitter the next day, July 4th. And it was Willie Nelson, and it was just like one of those concerts that like tons of people into Ronstadt was there. And I've just kind of the older I've gotten, the more I like country. I feel like it's like it speaks to me a lot more. But I love all kinds of stuff. We listen to everything in that locker room, right? And but I listened a little bit of everything. I like more I like Morgan. Uh Larry Fleet just came to town and did a did a our our benefit here with uh Scott Roland. Uh, you know, Toby was like come to town. I like the singer-songwriter thing. I like more of the I like the acoustic stuff, small settings. So just all kinds of music. But I it's like if I have a choice, I'm putting country on the radio. Wow.

SPEAKER_05:

That's nice. Hey, and while you mentioned it, you know, people usually save this conversation, but let's get right to the Mattingley charities because you you brought it up. And it's such a uh important thing. And you've had, I was looking at it like a lot of our friends here. You've had uh Trace Atkins, you've met uh the Warm brothers have been up there, Jeffrey Steele has been up there. Uh so talk to us a little bit about the charity.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, the the foundation, we started it years ago, and and I'd say uh started it with my back, I had a back company for a little bit, started in Connecticut. So we kind of started to basically be able to give uh inventory that didn't sell or whatever, give that away to different organizations as you know, sports equipment to help organizations. Uh we've Lori and I, we brought it to Evansville. We wanted to center it around our hometown. And from there, we still did sports and we still do some, but we've transitioned more into education. It's been the most, we we we like to think about it as the most underserved kids. And and the reason I think we've turned education because we see that as an opportunity for them to make decisions. Like this past one was all about a reading program, like reading programs. And we're gonna give, you know, and we there's a promise zone here, which is some of the again, the poorest schools. Uh, we're doing 13 books. So basically starting home libraries for every kid from kindergarten through third grade, and which is really cool, and from this standpoint, you basically, if they found out in the state of Indiana, and I'm so I'm assuming this is kind of all over the country, if you're not reading at the third grade level by the time you get to third grade, your chances of graduating high school go way down. And they talk about like you you you learn to read up until third grade, and then you read to learn after. And so we started a uh like a thing here with the mayor. Uh we want to build home libraries for all those kids. Because the disparity between a a medium household and those kids is not even close. So we want to try to get that on an equal field to give these kids a chance to basically make good decisions and make choices and give themselves a chance to you know be in a better spot.

SPEAKER_07:

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02:

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, that's incredible. Well, we'll have to come up there. If oh, it's great. If you'll have us sometime, we'd love to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Oh, I'd love to get you guys here. It would we'd probably have to get different little different venue. This year we didn't get a little bit of a good one.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, you mean smaller, a smaller venue for us?

SPEAKER_02:

No, no. I don't know. Um like we did it this year in an airport hangar, which was really cool. Uh my friend, my buddy who owns that little air airport, which is used to be Tri-State Aerial, now it's uh United Companies. Uh and the gentleman, he he's been the guy flying guys in, and it's been kind of a a call, uh thing that's helped me get guys because he will fly them in from Nashville. He picks them up at like 3 o'clock in Nashville. This year it was Chattanooga for Larry. Uh but they fly in around 3 o'clock, do a show at 7 or whatever, or do a 50-minute, you know, two an hour little set, and are back on a plane and and home that night. And I think we realize our time of year, guys have been on the road all year, they've been traveling, they've been doing all kinds of stuff. And you know, they want to be with their families too. And they want to see their families. So this way allows them to be home with the kids in the morning, be back, and they sleep in their own bed that night. What time of year do y'all do that? We do it a week before Thanksgiving every year. You and you mentioned Jeffrey Steele. This dude tore the house down. I hadn't really heard about him, but he blew the house up, man. He was awesome. My brothers were like, man, I could listen to that dude all night because he's fun. Yeah, we may want to do that. We want fun. And again, we'll do it like a QA with Scott Rowland this year. I don't know if you know Scott, who Scott is. You should. He's one of the best, best third baseman of all time, but he's from like 50 miles from here. And he grew up in Jasper, Indiana, which is right around right right down the road. And so he comes in, does a Q ⁇ A, and and we talk, you know, just talk baseball, tell stories, uh, do an auction, and and then play some music and have a quick evening, a fairly good evening. People know when they come, they're you're there to get in their pocket a little bit, but we all we just want them to have fun, so they enjoy at least giving up the money, right? So it's it's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04:

Unreal. Well, that's amazing, Don. And and uh we gotta there's so much to talk about. I mean, love hanging out with you. You you come out to shows, and uh the last time you came out to Toronto at that uh venue that's on the on the water. Yeah, really is it the yeah, to that? Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, always something like that. Something Budweiser.

SPEAKER_04:

Always fun. So hanging out with you is always so fun because I just want to pick your brain about baseball and everything, and you're and you always do, which is great. You know, so you were the Yankees from 82 to 95. And I can't imagine I always wanted to ask you, like, what was it like actually with Steinbrenner as a player? I had to I have to know.

SPEAKER_05:

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_04:

I have to know, like, did you I never I meant to ask you last time like you ever did you talk to him a lot? Did he did he interact a lot? Well what was that like? Because that that's you've got to have some decent stories about that whole those years. Yeah. I mean I mean, what was he like as a player? Especially because you were the guy.

SPEAKER_02:

You were the guy there, like how well when I first got there, and that's the kind of probably why it was easier for me there in New York, was that I really wasn't the guy. I came up with Gossage and Nettles and Willie Randolph and Luke Piniella, all these guys. So this is a whole different crew, but they were a rough that was a rough group, man. And so George was intimidated. He and he wasn't around that much. Like he wasn't down in the locker room, I'll say. But like you knew he was in when he was in the building, you you could tell everybody was kind of on pins and needles. And you'd see him a little bit in spring training, but he was always he was always kind of in the on the edge in the papers, right? And that's the way he he operated was like his idea was good publicity or bad publicity was still publicity, right? And so he would like if he had to get on you, or he'd get on guys, so guys did not like him very much. Um and so I kind of grew up like learning that you can't really trust or you don't want to be a part of this, but I found him okay for me. Um just because he wanted to win, and that's all he really cared about. At the end of the day, he wanted to win, and that was a good thing, and then I found out he doesn't take on the little guys. Like when I first got there, he's not taking, he's not coming out and calling Don Mattingley out. You know, I'm a rookie, no expectation. He's calling Goose Gostage out or Dave Winfield out, he's calling out the big boys. But I found out later that I guess I became a little bit more of a big boy when he caught he called me out after I, I don't know if you remember in 87 I had a homer, I had 10 homers in eight days. Yes, did a home run in eight straight days. And and then the next night after I stopped the eighth, the ninth day, I didn't hit one. We went to Minnesota and Tommy John was pitching, and and this is a record you get for really just catching the ball. I had a record like I think it was 22 put outs in a game. So Tommy John's throwing the ball on the ground. I'm catching it coming across the infield, but that counts as a put-out for me instead of record. And George came out and said something about Madden Lee doesn't care about winning, all he cares about is records. Right? And I was kind of like, uh, that didn't set that well, right? And then that kind of went away, and I let that pass, and he came out and said something else, and then I kind of just kind of pushed back. Like, you gotta treat me, you know, basically, if he doesn't want me here, if then he should trade me. Right? And that kind of got ruffled in the paper, that got crazy. So that winner, Dallas Green's taking over as the manager, and he calls me and he says, Hey Donnie, would you you want to be here? I said, Yeah, I want to be here, but he has to treat me with respect. I said, I'm here every day, I play every day, I play hurt, I'm in shape, I'm not coming late, you know, all that stuff. I said, he's got to treat me with respect. And I understand he's the owner, but I he's got to treat me with respect. Because I always looked at the owner with respect, right? He's the guy paying your paying your giving you a paycheck, the whole thing. So he said, Will you call him? I said, sure, I'll talk to him. And so he sets up a phone call. I call, we kind of get into all this stuff, back and forth again, and basically saying just what I said to you. I said, You gotta treat me with respect. Money's not respect. I said, You gotta treat me like a man. And and it's like you can't uh all the things, because he we would bring in every every type of guy, guys that had trouble, guys who've been off rehab. You know, he tried to give everybody a second chance, right? So I'm saying, you know, you gotta treat me with respect. And so it went back and forth back, it was after the season, was just after the season had ended. So he goes, Well, good luck to you. Or it's not freaking me. He said, I'll trade you to Cleveland. And I'm like, you can trade me anywhere you want, but you can't take the field from me. I can play, so you can't take that from me. Right? No matter where I go, I can play. And so he said, Well, good luck to you. He hangs up, right? Wow. So my my wife at the time, my ex-wife, we were kind of in the house in Jersey and we were getting ready to come back to Indiana. I said, Well, we might as well put this baby on the market and work on after that. After that, though, he never another thing. It was like really he treated he treated me with respect. It was almost like you stood, I stood up for myself and he respected that. Yeah. Right. After that, we were gold. I would do stuff for his family. You know, they do I don't know if they called it Red Red Ribbon Day or something. That was an anti-drug thing, Florida or something. And he invited us to Kentucky Derby, his horse was running, things like that. Uh so it be and when I hurt my back, I hurt my back after I was done playing, I mean, hurt it really bad. Um, and he flew me in from Indiana to New York, had the surgery, put me up in this in a hotel, totally took care of me. And after that, I was like, you know, it was just funny. After you kind of had the fallout, then everything was cool after that.

SPEAKER_04:

You know, you mentioned those that fact that which I didn't know about, I was looking up some of your stats, and you mentioned the eight straight games of the home run. Is it right that that year, as well in '87, hit six grand slams in '87? Is that I did. That is amazing. I mean, that's a year. That's that's unreal. I didn't I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03:

And I never hit it and the only grand slams was that year. That's the only one but they're all right there together. Yeah. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02:

You know what's funny about 87 was it I was really kind of struggling up until a certain till that point I or I start got I got hot. And they sent Bobby Mercer in, and that's what they would do. They'd bring an old guy in that had played before, and he kind of talked to me about hit talked to me about stuff, and I was just searching for it every day, it felt like, and I just couldn't find it. And uh he suggested something. I tried it, it clicked right in. And after that, I took off. And that's when all this.

SPEAKER_05:

What was it? What was the tip?

SPEAKER_02:

He just got me to kind of stand straight and just think. And I don't know what that means to you, anything you guys, but you know, I hit kind of low and out of a crouch and things like that. Um and I probably got a little bit, and I would work and try and tinker if I wasn't going well. I was trying all kinds of stuff. And I think what Bobby did is kind of get me back to square one and just said, hey, how about you just stand up straight? He goes, and as the pitches come and just sink down with it, sink, which put me into the crouch. And I'm telling you, it it like clicked right into place. I had a homer that night and then it took off.

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SPEAKER_04:

You talk about hitting, you know, I've always wanted to ask you, I don't think I have before, but so growing up a you know Red Sox fan, you know, I was always following you because I was a huge Wade Box fan, and you guys were always going at it in the batting title. So is that true that you guys that you and Wade Boggs got with Ted Williams and hung out and talked hitting one time? Is it is that yeah, what was that? I I've got to know what what did Ted Williams say to you guys? I mean, three of the greatest ever do it sitting around, and I mean, what an amazing scene that must have been.

SPEAKER_02:

It was a blast. And it was with Peter Gamons, who's a famous Boston writer.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

You probably know him. And it was kind of during the Charlie Lau, Walt Reniac uh weight shift controversy, like you shift weight to hit, uh which you do, but I mean they always had. Ted was saying you don't shift weight, and Bogsy and I were kind of like, well, you you do, and and Ted and like Ted is I don't know if you guys ever met Bobby Knight, right? These he's a big man. This is a guy's a 6'6, 6'5, 6'6, big man, big, bold, ran the conversation, right? And it's just like Bobby was just like that. And and so you're talking, hitting with him, and he's saying this or that, and we just just talking, hitting, drinking beer, eating shrimp, and it's it was awesome. We probably sit there for two hours, we just talk, walk through it all, talk through different stuff, and uh and it got to a certain point, and he goes, Peter, I think we're done. And that was it. Great, right? So, I mean, I'm in awe. Bogsy probably knew him better than I did because he was in Boston and Ted was probably around, so I didn't know him at all. But it was really cool.

SPEAKER_05:

It was really cool to do. Yeah, it is cool. I mean, the in my mind, the best ever do it, Ted Williams. But um, you know, you were talking about hitting and uh today's hitters, it's different. Um I suppose it's launch angle still, uh, and maybe the analytics have got into it where it's home runs are the thing. It's like an NBA. It's three pointers or nothing. Everybody wants to shoot three-pointers because of the analytics. Is that the way it is with baseball now? Is it all about launch angle? And if so, uh what is that like for you talking hitting with today's hitters?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, it's I would say it's cut actually coming back around again a little bit. Because if you if you watched the World Series, right, we were a team that put the ball in play. Yeah. Um you heard more about that. Um a few years ago, I'd say probably five, six years ago, all you heard was get the ball in the air, when they had the shift going on, uh, launch angle, all that stuff. Um, yeah, it's it's there. And I don't I don't think it's come back around because you know, for a while there, that group who when they were saying get the ball in the air, and they showed this this kind of hitting thing, and it's similar because it's funny, it's a language, is all it is. And it was kind of the same with the Reniac thing I was talking about with Ted. That's how that all came about was weight shift and in this and keep your head down and do this and that. Well, it was a language thing for Ted. He didn't that language didn't, you know, kind of go with the way they thought about hitting. And then launch angle has come in and hit the ball in the air and all that stuff. It's kind of the same for the older guys a little bit, that it doesn't make sense to us, right? To just swing up. And kind of the way they explained it was swing up. Well, the problem is the same guys went into the pitching room and said, hey, throw the ball at the top of the zone. They can't hit that by while they're trying to do the launch angle. So that's kind of, and that's when you've seen the strikeouts go up, right? It was either a strikeout, a walk, or a homer, the three true outcomes they call it. Yeah. And games were awful to watch. There was a World Series game or a play. I don't know if it's World Series or playoff. I remember walking away from the TV, being gone like 45 minutes, and came back and it was an inning later. And nothing had happened. The score was the same. And I'm like, oh, this is awful. Right? It was getting hard to watch. And I remember saying, baseball's getting hard to watch. And they were losing viewership with no action. Right? Nobody wants kids today. Are you kidding me? They don't want to have no action. Right? They want action. But it's all a language thing. So talk and hitting, like they'll talk now. You probably hear Vert. Oh, his Vert is X or his horizontal movement. It's really a movement plot, right? That they have. And they talk about how many inches it's moving. Well, the same fastball they have today is the same fastball guys through 30 years ago, 20 years ago. It's all about like, and then we would talk about it and just say, hey, this guy's ball takes off up there. Right? And you would you would talk one guy to another because you didn't have the video or anything else at that point. But now they have a name for it and they can they can actually put a number on it, right? Because of all the technology. So it's really the same. It's just a little bit of a different language. So hitting is still hitting. And I do think it's coming around a little bit because teams are you know rewarding contact again. You still they still want you to hit the ball at the ballpark. And they want doubles and homers, and that's how you create runs. So there's nothing wrong with that. And I and I would say to them to them from an older standpoint to the newer group, you know, we never just went up to the plate and just tried to hit a ground ball. You know, you're trying to hit some balls hard, you're trying to crush it, right? And so we all want the same, same thing. They just it's just a different way of going about it with the new language.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, so many times you had um so much success in hitting hitting doubles, you know, like uh you'd have like the season record, you know, for several years. Do you feel like for you, is that just a gifting of knowing where to hit the ball? Or was it your was it the base running? Because you how did I mean how did you get so many doubles out of the whole league over and over? I I was curious about that.

SPEAKER_02:

I think it's more of whole field, right? I was a guy that hit the ball kind of line to line, gap to gap. So it was hard to play me. Like when you s when you see shifts a few years back, right? Everybody's playing on one side of the field. I would say when I played, they probably wouldn't have shifted me because I hit the ball kind of everywhere. And when you hit the ball everywhere, you end up hitting it in spot, they can't guard the whole field, right? So they don't know if you're gonna go left field line, right field line, and I can't control it. It's kind of where they pitch you, is where you end up hitting it. Right? It's like I don't say I'm gonna hit this ball down the left field line. That's not not really possible. I may be trying to hit the ball the other way, but I definitely wouldn't be like trying to place it. I'm just trying to hit it hard. And where the ball is is where you hit it, and that's where it goes and ends up going there.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, and then not the non-baseball, real quick, and I'll turn it over to Wednesday. Uh so and going back to Seinbrenner for a minute, did you ever go to the Seinfeld uh set like and watch when uh Jason Alexander, you know, uh his character Costanza, he was working, you know, for the for the team. Did you ever get invited?

SPEAKER_02:

I did not go. Did not go ever, but obviously follow a little, you know, watch Seinfeld, uh probably more in the reruns than the actuals as they were doing it. Yeah. But uh yeah, I see some of that stuff. It's it's funny. Larry David's hilarious. I mean, the creator of that show is hilarious.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. Do you know Larry? I actually met Larry in LA, a friend of mine who's the was a Yankee Bat Boy, is a writer out there. Now he writes he's he writes uh detective kind of uh books on real crime that happened, and so he's writing books on that. Um but his wife is like a talent agent, and she's been a few different places, but so every year she would have a dinner, and it'd be she'd have a baseball dinner, but Larry would come and different people. But meeting Larry was so funny because he was talking about golf one day and about the whole day of golf of like you were supposed to meet a guy and he didn't show up or he's late, and then he then he goes and wants to play with these other guys, and I'm playing just three of us, and I'm mad, but I'm playing my best golf ever. And then he comes back and wants to play with us, and my golf game goes to hell. I had to keep him out of the group. I'm like, I'm listening to a show. That's a Larry that's a curb show, right? Yeah, it's amazing. That's what was amazing, like listening to that, and like this is how their shows come about.

SPEAKER_04:

So I had to ask you too, again, back to baseball, because that's I'm gonna bug you every time I see you about this. So I was watching the when the comeback came out by the Red Sox coming back in 04, and I'm watching it, and then that game in was it July, I think, when was it uh Veritech and A-Rod got into it, and then they're showing the clip, and there you are, like behind A Rod. You know, there you are Oh in the brawl? In the brawl, yeah. So and and I was I wanted to ask you, I was like that whole ride through that season to the postseason that had to be very intense. That's when teams didn't like each other, which I miss like I I I I you know being a Red Sox fan, like it you know, I I miss the Yankee Red Sox like how it was back then, maybe more heated, and at least it felt that way as a fan. I'm not sure as how it was as the players, but that old four season, postseason I mean that was that was that was something. Like that that was I mean that's what it felt like, you know, as a fan.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know. That was um that was my first year back to coaching, first year back, and was doing the hitting in New York uh that year. And obviously crazy way it ended series, but I think the rivalry at that point was at its height. Yeah. Right. Was crazy. Like the fans were just angry in Boston, right? I remember being on the bus, and maybe I hope this wasn't you as a kid. No, no. We're on the bus and we're going to the ballpark, and kids with his dad, he must be nine years old, he's shooting us the bird. And dad's like, good boy.

SPEAKER_04:

It was coming off you know, it's coming off the 03 season, which ended so you know, with Aaron doing the home run, it ended so bad. So all that frustration. I remember me and Kurt were on the road during uh the 03 postseason. We're actually in Iowa, I think, when when Boone hit that home run and we had to play that night, it was torture, of course. Um but I think it carried over all the way through 04, and then the and the whole you know, the whole summer thing with Veritec and A-Rod and and all that. Yeah, and um I mean that I mean it was funny. I was watching it, and there you are. You're behind A Rod. I'm like, I gotta ask him about that, and that had to be very uh it just it certainly seemed intense, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

No, that series, that's when you play Boston in, and even when I played, when you came out of a four-game series with those guys, you're just exhausted. Because it seemed like there was so much media and so much attention on it, and there always seemed to be some kind of drama. I remember Jim Rice running halfway up the stands to get his hat back, right? In Yankee Stadium, he runs in the stands, and it was just intense, right? And so that year, that's why I'm saying it almost like came to a like the peak that year, and they had some really, really good teams. And I mean, it was just it was crazy. It was crazy. It was, it was, it was probably the most intense series in season because you're playing each other 19 times then, and when you play each other 19 times, you're just tired of these guys, right? Like I am so sick of seeing Veritek or sick of seeing uh Pedro and Schilling and Beckett and all these guys, and right? You're just tired of it.

SPEAKER_07:

Hey, who was the uh who's the toughest pitcher? Who got in your head the the most?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh I don't know about it in my head, but it wore me out a little bit. Mark Langston got me good. Randy was Randy Johnson was no fun. I can't even I can't even imagine. This dude's like 6'11, and he was like, I felt like he delivered it about halfway to the plate, and he threw sidearm, so and anytime he missed, it was like right at a left-hander's head. So this is like one of those, it's just like you gotta get a man up some courage and say, I'm not leaving, I'm not moving. I'm coming, I'm staying with you, Randy. I'm sorry. I'm I gotta and that's the only way to hit him, right? So he was he was no fun, especially as he got more refined. When I first saw him, he was all over the place, but he didn't really get anything over besides a fastball. So if you can hit a fastball, you're in a good spot and and don't give ground. But when he started getting the slider over, it became like I don't know what to do with this guy because it the way where he threw from to where the angle that was hitting the plate, it just didn't leave me a place to hit it, right? Like, where do I hit this ball, right? When it crosses it, because it doesn't feel like it's it's only crossing, like nick in a corner on the outer edge. And he he was tough. But a guy like Mark Langston gave me more trouble because he'd give me a lot of looks. He'd run the ball at me, he'd throw some sidearm, big curveball, short slider, uh kind of wild. It was just a combination of things, and I didn't, I never felt that comfortable with him.

SPEAKER_05:

I always think, you know, as I'm watching some of the new baseball. By the way, you were talking about how baseball had lost some viewership over the last couple years. I think this latest World Series gained viewership and brought back a lot of new fans with the way that you guys played ball, especially. I thought that was incredible. Um, but I want to talk about new baseball a little bit because as an old dude, I watch a game go to the tenth inning and they start with the runner on second, and I'm like, oh, and you know, you can only throw so many times over to first base, and it's it hurts my heart. Now they got the automated ball system coming in. Is that something that you're kind of kicking and screaming that you don't want to come in? Or is that just like we're old dudes thinking that?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I think like when the games were four and a half hours, yeah, like the pitch clock to me is a great thing. Yeah. Like I I like the pitch clock because it's probably getting back to more old school where guys got the ball and they threw it. Guys got the ball and they threw it, and guys stayed in the batter's box. They didn't go walking around after every pitch and things like that. Because when games get to be over four hours, people aren't watching. Agreed. So I think the pitch clock was a good thing. Uh the throwover three times changes the game a little bit. It puts more action in because it puts a lot more pressure on, like it puts a lot more pressure on the pitcher. If he throws over once, now you're like, oh, he can't throw over again, or if he gets to two disengagements, then the guy really runs. They've made the base just a little bigger, which is created just a s a little bit shorter distance to steal a base. All those rules are made to like enhance the game. And you have to think about all sports kind of change the rules enough to make it more action, more fun for the viewer.

SPEAKER_08:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So some of them I like. Um the three disengagements, you almost have to have it, or guys will throw over just to slow down the game, right? And they'll just do it to rest. Which is interesting. So they they would use that if you don't put that three in there. Um the the automated system's not as bad as you think because it's not completely automated. It is completely automated, but you only get three challenges per team. Right? And it doesn't really take long. It's like uh like you ever watch tennis, like when we'll be able to do it.

SPEAKER_05:

Actually, I like the tennis system.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's and that's what the the the automated is not fully automated, it's a challenge system where if it's the catcher says it's a it's a strike and the umpire called a ball, he can touch his helmet, it comes up on the big screen, it shows the pitch come in, and then it's either a strike or a ball. And if the catcher's right, they retain, they get more than they gotta keep that challenge. The worst thing about it is it's kind of embarrassing for umpires.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, that's what I wonder. Is it gonna get to where it's just fully integrated? Because how do you not do that at this point? Because you're right. As fans, we see the box, we know when it's a ball or a strike, and we're like, God dang, what's so is it gonna work that way?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't think it's gonna get fully automated because it they say the games in AAA are a lot longer when you go fully automated. If you go three challenges, then it becomes a little strategic. Do you waste your challenges in the first inning or do you kind of wait for the seventh, eighth, ninth where the bigger calls are coming and use them there? And it and it's pretty quick. It doesn't take a long time, so it goes fast. You know, so like they say we challenge, it pops up on the screen, you know, 10 seconds later it's over. Right? It's not like replay where it takes two minutes or whatever and the game stops. It goes pretty quick, so it's not as bad as you think. Uh so and the the the rule for extra innings, yeah, that's that's kind of one that's it's hard to it does, it makes the games end, is what it does. Right. Right? The guy at second, it ends the game like 10 or 11 innings usually almost every time. It doesn't get to like 18 innings, like what happened to us in LA, right? Mm-hmm in the in the playoffs. So yeah, so it's a little up in the air because your pitching gets totally messed up. You end up having to send a guy down to AAA because you need extra arms. So a guy that should be there gets sent out because you played 18 innings and he didn't do anything wrong. Right? Just because he's got options and able to move him because you have to bring up fresh arms to protect you. If that makes any sense to you guys. It does.

SPEAKER_04:

You know, I I texted you back in uh right before the season started. I I said, hey, you know, how's the season gonna be this year? Just touch in with you, and and you said, I think we're gonna surprise some people this year. That's what you said to me on the text. I'm like, I'm like, you certainly did. What what an incredible so you're up there uh coaching with Toronto, what a what a great uh ride. I mean, what a great atmosphere. I think Kurt's right. I think it's the most fun I've had watching a World Series in a long time. And it it I think without I mean being in the middle of it, so intense every night, and but I I think everybody enjoyed it. I think a lot of people watched baseball again this October and had a really good time doing it. You know? So I mean it's it yeah, it didn't end the way, obviously, but but crazy plays, crazy games. I mean, just to be part of that, you know, pretty pretty felt like baseball kind of made a little bit of comeback in the postseason this year.

SPEAKER_02:

It was an incredible, incredible run. Um you know, I kind of go back to your points. You could feel it with this team in spring training, you could just kind of feel the way they were like this thing's gonna be good. We got a chance to be good. And so that happened, that was cool. It was a true definition of a team. And I told a lot of people that, and you guys aren't alone. I can't tell you how many people have told me, like, the dude that puts my gets a sprinkler going at this house when I'm gone and turns it off, he goes, I don't even watch baseball, but I watched the series and I think I'm gonna be a baseball fan now.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, to crack it. Right?

SPEAKER_02:

You guys are not alone. This was a fun series to watch, right? And the screw this team is fun in a true definition of a team, and that's why I think I love this group, is because these guys, like, you know, talk about laying it all out on the line for you. If you watch these guys play, you could probably see it on their face. It had to come through the screen. These guys give you everything they had, and it it ended up being short, then we came up short, but still, you can't even not say you didn't love these guys because they give you everything they had. Yeah, it it certainly showed, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, do you do you feel like uh like baseball? It seems to me like I know uh we were talking about the people getting you know, you have the rivalries and the and fights and stuff like that. But like uh a baseball team almost more than any other sport seems kind of like a small town to me. You know, like everybody knows everything about everybody, and if somebody's getting in a fight, they're not standing back and waiting, you know, everybody's getting in there. So just kind of do you find that true as a as a player and as a coach?

SPEAKER_02:

It it is, it becomes one. And I think the the closer your team is, the better your team is usually. But you're right, like it's just like you spend a hundred and play 162 games plus another 30 in spring training, and you get about 20 days off in all of that. And so you're there every day with these guys, and their families are there with you, especially at home. You know, the kids hanging out together, and the families and the wives, uh the girlfriends. It is a it is like uh like a small town, everybody knows everybody. And um it's it's it's different, you know. It's kind of I mean, it's like you guys, we talk about this. The music out on the road, right? You're on the road all the time. You're you're always kind of like in a hotel or traveling or moving, you're never hanging very long anywhere, and it just becomes your whole existence is based around your group, right? And what you're doing. And it's it's I mean, it's cool. You gotta love it, right? You gotta love what you do to be part of either one of these deals, the music or the or the baseball.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, there's a lot of similarities. You know, I think you know, we've gotten to know a lot of athletes over the years, and it's interesting. Athletes seem to love music, and of course, the musicians, we love sports, and there's always that cool little uh friendship and kinship there. I was gonna ask you, you know, as being on the road with Jason, like when we talk about stuff, we always talk about the real old days. It's never the peak moments, it's always when you were grinding and like just coming up. And it's a little different with ball players because you're not with the same players throughout your whole career. But like when you're talking to people, is that the kind of fond memories that you have? Mostly you talk about, oh, grinding. You weren't in the minors long, but just the grind getting there.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think a lot of guys you do look at like the minors as some of your best days because everybody's in kind of in the same boat at that point. Everybody's nobody's making money yet. Uh, you're in staying in probably the same apartment complex. Uh, you know, everybody's getting together in somebody's room or around the pool, you know, drinking beer uh almost every night. And it's so it's like the minor leagues are they are a grind. But I think you look back at it and you love it because because of all those things I say. And and again, I think you don't realize that that your situation is not great at that point, right? You don't look at it like, oh, only five of us on this team are probably gonna make it. Right? You don't know who it is, you don't even think about the numbers like that, right? Who's gonna make it, who's gonna get to the big leagues? Because the percentages of guys getting to the big leagues is pretty low, right? That start out in the minors, but I think those days are cool because you're we're all on buses at that point, we're all traveling and don't really have any money, and just playing ball. All right, just playing ball. And you gotta love what you're doing at that point. And I don't know, that's cool. To me, that was cool. I love I I remember going to my the minor leagues and making, I think I made uh it was 238 something every two weeks. Right?$238.19. That's like my first publishing deal. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm thinking, man, this is the greatest thing ever. I'm getting paid. I'm out here playing ball every night, and they actually give us a little bit of meal money, get four bucks or eight bucks to eat a day. But you're thinking, this is great. I'm playing ball and getting paid. Yeah. And I just think that's what when you talk about the grind, that's the grind. But you didn't, it didn't seem like it didn't seem like a grind at that point.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. I was thinking, you know, we were talking about minor leagues. I was thinking about Bull Durham and like uh made me think of major league. What's your favorite baseball movie?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, good one.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh there's there's a few of them. Like lately, like I got a little, I got a uh 10-year-old now getting ready to turn 11, but he's been watching the Saying Lot. Oh, of course. So that's kind of that's fun, right? But I always I like Bull Durham. I played in that league, so I kind of knew the Carolina League or the There's a South Atlantic in some of the same cities, right? And um, and it was Max Patkin in that in that movie. Uh he's uh he used to come to the minor league cities and do his thing, so that was a good one. Um, you know, Field of Dreams. Uh that was cool. Yes. Uh there's so many good ones. Major I like Major League because they're fun, right? And with uh Charlie Sheen and all that. So uh I yeah, all of them are kind of fun to watch.

SPEAKER_07:

Mine was a natural. A natural? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Robert Redford. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I always like to ask like incredibly successful people like yourselves, like the family dynamic. And I only asked this one question because uh I'd I'd read when you were making the jump uh before going to going pro, uh, your dad had told uh some commissioner or something that says no, he's gonna finish college. But you but you didn't. You you went ahead and went ahead and went. What did that cause a rip between you and your dad? Was that was that all cool or what was that like?

SPEAKER_02:

No, it was cool. I'm sure he was, you know, you know, my dad was uh he worked in the in the postal system, right? And probably was pretty conservative from the standpoint of like, you know, not that many guys make it, you need an education, um, came from that school, and he was the one telling scouts, at that point you didn't have all the what they have now, with everybody kind of knows who the best prospects are, all this, all this stuff. You didn't really know if who was watching you, who was gonna draft you, any of that. Uh, but they were calling my dad, and I know my dad wanted me to go to school, so he was telling them that. And if they were to ask me, I'm like, man, I don't want to go to school, I just want to play. Right? Yeah. And shoot, I got 23 grand to sign. I was like, that's a ton of money. Right? And um, so yeah, I wanted to play the whole time. I I wasn't believing you know that I wasn't gonna make it. I didn't think about any of that, just think I'm gonna make it. And but I know he wanted me to go to school, but it didn't cause any riff at all. My dad was great. He didn't, you know, once once I signed and was gone, you know, he showed up. I think he retired maybe a year later and would show up pretty much every year, uh, at least you know, you know, two or three times to see me play.

SPEAKER_04:

So in Toronto, I wanted to ask you too, because you weren't the hitting coach in Toronto, right? You're the bench coach in Toronto. But how many guys come up to you and say, hey man, give me give me give me some more tips on hitting? Like, because I mean you're uh Donnie baseball. I mean, so it's like they got you around to pick your brain as well, which has to be a huge uh like plus if you're playing in Toronto and uh Don Mattingley's there every day. I mean it's got it's you know to them.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a little it's a little tricky because because you don't you have like you in today's game you got like three different hitting guys. So you you have the head guy, you have his assistant, and you have another guy that's helping. And what you don't want is too many voices in your head when you're hitting. And so I would be very careful. I'd a lot of times I would talk to the the hitting guy, uh, tell him what I if I saw something, what I saw. Um and he'd be like, hey, let's let him know. You know, talk to him. You can because I didn't I didn't want to like overstep, but if guys come to you with a conversation, you know, how well how'd you try to hit this certain guy, or how'd you what'd you do with this or that? Yeah, you get talking hitting, and that that's a different thing, right? Because now you're you're talking in general, right? Right. So in in general, that's the way I tried to handle it. I still I think too many voices is confusing. And I and I remember reading Dean Smith's book. I don't know if you guys watch basketball at all. And he talked about all his coaches, he had them all doing different parts, like the the defensive coach would also handle ball handling, the ball handling coach would do something with rebounding, so they all moved around. The only position that never changed was the shooting coach because he wanted one voice, and because it's so repetition, and you didn't want four guys telling you how to shoot, you wanted one, and that's kind of how I always thought about hitting. I don't need to be another voice in somebody's head unless it's kind of like we're all on the same page here, and that this guy's coming and he's asking questions.

SPEAKER_05:

Don, hey, so you're talking about being the bench coach. Uh, you know, you were obviously the manager of the Dodgers for a long time, the manager of the uh Marlins for a long time. Uh what does the future hold? Are you uh you eyeing anything? Are you happy with what you're doing? Are you gonna stop? What's what's next for Donnie baseball?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, this moment I'm happy because I'm not doing anything at all. I can I can relate. Uh I am eyeing something and it's not official, so I can't really talk about it. Um, but you know, a lot of people say, Well, why'd you leave Toronto? And I knew I was gonna leave Toronto when the season started. In my mind, I went there to help a young manager. Bring an experienced voice, you know, another set of eyes for him, just to help him just get start him getting started. Right? It was like he took over the team the year before, like part of the way through the season, and went in to kind of be part of that, his transition into being a full-time manager and really good manager. Um, so I knew that was gonna happen. So I knew I was leaving before the season started. Um but then it's like, okay, I'm not really, I feel pretty good. I still remember most things. I don't lose everybody's name all the time. Uh so I still feel good. And my little guy, the 10-year-old, this year for the first time, he was like, he was hanging around, he was with the guys, he was going to the ballpark with me. It was like he was all a part of it, and he's he was like, Dad, you gotta keep going. You gotta keep going. And so he's talking to me about it, which makes it a lot easier with with the family, right? Because you don't want you know me to be out doing this, this. My wife hates it, she's um she's by herself all the time. The kid doesn't like baseball. It's like we're all splintered, right? That's a that's not a good thing for anybody. So the fact that everybody's kind of on board, um, we've been able, he did well enough in school. Well, like last year we took him out during all spring training. So he's there six weeks, comes back, finishes school. Then he was in Toronto during the summer. And we, you know what? We took him out for that for the playoffs. We were like, he can keep up. Now they have so much stuff you can keep up. And him being a part of that was one of the coolest things that could ever happen. There's no way he didn't learn more about life and like trying to do something and be great at it during that month than he did watching this series, right? Watching guys fight and have a loss. We lose the first two games in Seattle, then we win too. I mean, just the back and forth, right? We learn about so much stuff when we do that, and it was a great, great for him at the end of the season.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, that's awesome. I tell people, you know, all the time, it's like my son's at that age now, where he's playing sports, and sports teaches you so much. It is invaluable the lessons that you learn being in sports, and I I just love that. And I love that you were able to have him there with you too. And I agree, he learned more in that couple weeks than he ever would there. I'm not uh, you know, dismissing what school can do, but having that asset as well is incredible.

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, no, no doubt. Like people talk about travel. This kid was on planes. I mean, three three series in a row, because you you play two at home, and then you got you go and you have an off day. And so that happened in New York. We're at he's out on the field, we're playing ball in the outfield with the other kids. You know, who gets to go out and play ball in Yankee Stadium? We do the same thing in Seattle. We go there, we have an off day. We're out on the field playing ball. We do the same thing in LA. You know, he's out there doing it. I mean, it's like he gets on the grass in LA, he lays down, he goes, Dad, I can sleep on this. I mean, that field is perfect, like pristine. He's like, I can sleep, I could sleep on this grass. I'm like, okay. But I mean, though those are life experiences that you just do not get. And you can't, there's no way that school can. Yeah, I'm I'm with you. I mean, obviously, I'm gonna can't say, well, you don't have to go to school because we're just gonna run around together. That can't happen. But there's there's another place for experiences or something that follow you your whole life and they stay with you.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, we said that with our kids coming out on the road as well. It's like, you know, that they just to be able to have that experience is gonna last a lifetime with them.

SPEAKER_04:

And it's funny, and it's fun as a dad, too. Selfishly, you know, of course, having your kids, you know, knowing they're uh loving it and experiencing it and and falling in love with the whole scenario. It's a it's a win-win, you know, on that one.

SPEAKER_07:

You know, I gotta know something, Don. What's your handicap?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh-oh. You know what? Uh I got where I was pretty honest. I'm gonna tell you the truth. I haven't played probably in five years. What? So Oh, I haven't played. Uh when when um I first retired from playing, I was playing like three or four times a week, and I was getting pretty good. I was usually playing like nine holes is all. And I got where I shot a 37 one time for nine holes, and I went, hey, that's a 74. That's pretty good. Nice, right? If I'd have played 18. But then I got into coaching, and you just don't have time to play. When I get home in the winter, now I got a little one, and you know, mom is not excited about me taking off for another four hours and coming back and oh, hey, honey, what's for dinner? Uh so I just haven't had the the chance to really go out and and say, I'm gonna go hit hit the links for three hours. Now, one of one of Lori's older boys likes to play golf. Now, him and I go out and hit the ball around a little bit, but haven't really played consistently in probably 10, 12 years. Wow, wow. Yeah, only the uh I'd like to. Yeah. I would like to.

SPEAKER_04:

I love playing, but I just don't have time. Like, yeah, it's no accident that the pitchers are always the great golfers. Exactly. You know what? No, yeah. Like we, you know, Saber Haig is a good friend of ours, and and he's an incredible golfer, Beckett and all those guys, and that's all you do is play golf. That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Pitch and four days off. Right? That's a good gig. That's a great gig. Like a starting pitcher is one of the best gigs, especially if you're going good. Yeah. Yeah. Right? You have a good game. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna play golf and work out for the next three days and I'll do it again. But if you're going bad, yeah, if you're going bad, it's not so not as fun because now you gotta think about it for four days.

SPEAKER_07:

And they don't have to transition from a baseball swing to a golf swing, because from what I've heard, it's a big transition.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it felt like it for me. The further I got away from baseball of actually hitting, the better my golf swing got.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Hey, do you I I read this about you that you were ambidextrous as a kid, so do you golf right or left?

SPEAKER_02:

Left. Okay. Left. Pretty much everything I did left, but I could throw right-handed.

SPEAKER_05:

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, as well. I know. It's weird. Weird. You know, because like as a kid, I caught, I played short, uh, right-handed. Really? Right? And I'd left-handed or play the outfield left-handed. I was always a little stronger left-handed.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and even in the um in the pros, you yeah, I mean you're such a good fielder. There there was a time when you played even third base and you were the last left-handed third baseman. Is that correct? Seemed like I'd read that like once you did that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I was the last one, but I know I played third, which was so much fun. Yeah because like like when you get the Pro Bowl, they kind of put you in a position and that's what you do. So you don't get to like when you're a kid, you get to play everywhere, which I think is really good for kids to be able to play all over the field because they learn the whole game. But so when a manager says, Hey, you think you can play third? I go, It was Lou Pennell. I said, Lou, I can catch a ground ball. I promise you that. And uh because take a few grounders over there today. You know, in an emergency, I may put you over there. Like in the fifth inning, here we go. I was over there, and uh yeah, first first play was a double play ball. Nice, it was it yeah, in the hole. Then I got some silent treatment coming in the dugout. Boys didn't boys didn't want to talk to me. I was so fired up, I was like, yeah. They come in and they're all like, what happened? Something happened.

SPEAKER_04:

I had my speaking of that, you I watched that um A Rod documentary that I thought was pretty good, actually, that on Alex Rodriguez, and you were there in New York with them for a little bit, right? And um is that it really and I mean he went from short to third. So you he be he and he became pretty pretty great at it, right? But it took it took a little bit, but even a guy like that who's incredible, it takes a minute to go to third base. Short. I mean it I mean it seems really hard. I can't imagine doing it, but you know, seemed like he was he was still doing okay at it.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah, the good thing about short to third is short's probably the one that uh it's the same side of the field, which makes it like like guys say sometimes going from short to second is different than going from like short to third or third to short, we'll say. Because they're on the same side of the field, you see the ball similarly coming off the bat. Uh but A Rob is just a special athlete too. And he was a really good shortstop, was probably gonna get too big for short, a little bit like uh Corey Seager. You love they always think Corey Seeger's are gonna be too big to play short, but he's incredible. I still think they'll move him at one point, he'll be a third. But um yeah, A Rod's just a special athlete, and so I think that transition came pretty easy for him.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, well, Don, I know we could keep you for hours, uh, but we're gonna have mercy on you and let you go. But we can't thank you enough for being here. It's such a pleasure for us, I know. Uh, we're incredibly thankful for you, and just the way that you went about everything as a player, as the way you were a manager, the way you are as a person, we're very thankful for you. And come out again to some shows, man.

SPEAKER_04:

Come out as soon as you can.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I appreciate you guys, man. I really, I really do. I always love coming to the shows and hanging out a little bit, get that free Tito's, something like that.

SPEAKER_05:

You got it. You got it, my man. Donnie Baseball. I I know you could have picked his brain for hours.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I always feel bad because when he comes out to shows, that's exactly what I do. I know. You're such a germ. I don't let him go either.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm like So tell us about the one time when That's what I do.

SPEAKER_04:

I know.

SPEAKER_07:

No, he does like the hey, you remember that Tom?

SPEAKER_04:

No. But I mean, how do you not? He humors me though. He I I do germ out around him quite a bit. Yeah, it is Don Mattingley. I always just love that era of ball. I'm a huge Red Sox fan, so I watched him play a lot, and that whole era to me is really, really cool, nostalgic for me, probably. That's incredible. He's a what a great guy. He comes out and literally hangs out and just has a drink and talks baseball and brings all the players out. And yeah, I don't know, pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And what what did you say? You guys were talking well in the break, uh Donnie baseball. Who who named him? And where did that come from?

SPEAKER_05:

You know, as obviously I I know very well who Don Mattingley is, but as we always do, you know, you want to research a little bit. And I was listening to him talk to Dan Patrick, and Dan Patrick didn't know this either, that Kirby Puckett actually named Don Mattingley Donnie Baseball. Because I guess he was just uh he's a baseball head, so he's always talking about this. He was saying this and this and this, and Kirby was like, Oh, Donnie baseball, oh, he's baseball. You know, so it stuck.

SPEAKER_03:

I like that. I like Donnie baseball because it's merited and deserved, as opposed to in football of South Carolina, beamer ball. I hate I hate every time I hear a playing beamer ball. I'm like, how where did he how did he get that that name? They're not even that good. Anyway, he just well, it's just he's uh it's just he's kind of a he's a he's a a cocky coach. I just don't really care for him that much, you know. Just as far as a coach goes, he might be a great guy. I don't know. But anyway, Donny baseball is very merited. Um But that's a that's a tough nickname to live up to. Oh no, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Donnie baseball playing for the Yankees.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, but man, his stats are ridiculous. I mean for so many years, just over and over again.

SPEAKER_05:

Um unfortunately, never got to a World Series. The I the other thing I learned, he came in in 82. In 81, Yankees were in the World Series, and then the year after he retired, the Yankees went to the World Series. They won it in 95.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah, but he never got to go.

SPEAKER_03:

No, that's why even though he was the the a stellar player that that whole time is just like.

SPEAKER_07:

And he's the only Jersey retired that didn't win a deal.

SPEAKER_03:

Which is crazy.

SPEAKER_04:

And yeah, that's why that's why in Toronto Toronto. I was really hoping that they would win. Yeah. So we can be part of a but we uh he's he's he's so great. I mean, it's and to do it in a market like New York for all those years at that level, it's a whole nother.

SPEAKER_05:

He was talking with Steinbrenner, and we didn't even mention Billy Martin with another huge character. Uh, but it's really cool. It's such a cool thing for us. We hope you guys enjoyed it. Uh you know, we want to make sure you guys go visit patriotmobile.com. Put in the code SMALTON. It's gonna give you a free month of service, and I promise you will not regret it. Go do it. Uh, I think original glory beer. If you haven't tried it, again, go do it. It's a perfect time of year to do it. Who doesn't like drinking beer during the holidays? Exactly. Wade Boggs does. Absolutely. East faces as well. East faces. East faces. Oh my gosh. We can't be thankful enough for these guys. And you know, we are not the business type, but if you do need an office, you need a corner, you need a cubicle, this is the place to go. Uh, you won't be disappointed for that. We want to thank everybody for listening. We got Neil, we got Galo. Oh, we got Thrash. I'm sorry. Well, that beard, it is Thrash. Wow.

SPEAKER_07:

I like it. Beard stays. You like the beard?

SPEAKER_05:

The beard is fast.

SPEAKER_07:

Beard stays fantastic. Kurt said it was intimidating. It is intimidating. Very intimidating.

SPEAKER_03:

And you were already very intimidating.

SPEAKER_04:

That's true. You're double intimidating. The beard is a actually more than anyone I I know, it's a transformation.

SPEAKER_03:

Really.

SPEAKER_04:

In a really good way. Good way. Good way.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Upgrade. That's what I say.

SPEAKER_03:

You're the kind of guy that somebody would see at a red light and look over and say, huh. Pretty good looking guy. If they only knew. If they only knew. Exactly.

SPEAKER_07:

I mean, I'm past the irritating stage. But and thank thank you guys. I I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05:

Thrash. You're welcome. Halo GK, I'm Kurt. Thank you guys for listening. Let's try that in the small town podcast.