Try That in a Small Town Podcast

From Press Room To Governor’s Chair - Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Leadership, Family & Football :: Ep 85 Try That in a Small Town Podcast

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Politics gets human fast when the conversation starts with family, music, and the weight of raising kids. We sit with Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders to trace a candid arc from campaign backrooms to the White House podium and into the governor’s office, where every signature has a name attached. She unpacks how motherhood clarifies priorities, why listening hard before deciding matters, and what it felt like to step into the press secretary role during the loudest news cycles of 2017.

We dig into leadership by friction—making the case, inviting disagreement, then owning the call. Sanders shares how she sometimes reframed language for Trump and sometimes watched him trust his gut, arguing that instincts, not scripts, often move voters. Then we shift to Saturdays and stadiums. As a lifelong Arkansas Razorbacks fan, she welcomes a new coach and calls out the unintended chaos of NIL and the transfer portal. She’s wary of heavy-handed fixes yet believes the current setup rewards the richest programs and strips away loyalty, a tension any college football fan will recognize.

The heart of the episode is education. Sanders walks us through the Arkansas Learns Act: raising starting teacher pay from $36,000 to $50,000, delivering raises statewide, and adding merit-based bonuses that reward exceptional educators. She details investments in literacy coaches and a hard focus on third-grade reading benchmarks, along with universal school choice that lets families find the right fit. We also hit Chiefs football, Royals loyalty, and the family pact that swapped SEC Saturdays for Kansas City Sundays, plus a frank detour into AI’s creative creep and what it could mean for Nashville’s session players and songwriters.

If you care about how policy translates into classrooms, how college sports drifted off course, or how leaders think under pressure, this conversation delivers clarity without spin. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves SEC football or education policy, and leave a review with the one change you’d make to fix NIL—we’ll feature the best takes next week.

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SPEAKER_02:

Was there any time when you were with Trump and in that advisement role when you either got a chance to or thought about saying, uh Sir, I I wouldn't say that or tweet that or let's delete that. Did did you ever suggest anything like that? And what if so, how do we respond? And what will you respond?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yeah, we had quite a few of those conversations. Yeah. I've not now, nor have I ever been impressed by anything James Cobby's doing.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh another hardball question that's right out of the shoot. Um what was it like growing up in the home of a bass player?

SPEAKER_08:

The Try That in a Small Town Podcast. Begins now.

SPEAKER_04:

Here we are. Another episode of the Try That in a Small Town Podcast. We got Trash with a heavy beard. Yeah. Coming in later. I'm Kurt. That's uh tell us uh uh tell us about this.

SPEAKER_05:

How long is it going? This is I don't know, what a month, maybe? A month? Month of growth? And I mean you can keep it, right? Yeah, I just it's time to it's time to trim this part up to match because I had the goatee first and then the color it's no I don't gray color. You really want to color it gray. Yeah, you want to color it gray. I'm just gonna it's time to kind of shape it up a little bit, yeah. Or let it get long. See what happens. I like it, I like a little I like a little like a scraggly?

SPEAKER_03:

That length, yeah. Not longer than that on the on the goatee part.

SPEAKER_05:

Okay. I love it. It's it's I've never had a beard. I'm past the irritating part, and uh Lana seems to like it. Okay. That's what matters. That's good. It's just it's like having a new man, I guess, for her. About time. Yeah, maybe could be.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, maybe she's a she's always she's always fantasized about a man with a beard. Now she has one.

SPEAKER_05:

And it's still the same me. It's still the same guy. Right. Thirty-one years, but it's a different it's a new Neil.

SPEAKER_02:

In her mind, it's a different man, which is exciting. Could be.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, there's something to it.

SPEAKER_05:

Leave the lights on now.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. There's something to that beard, man. I like it. I know. I I yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my gosh. Leave the lights on.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

It's just uh an interesting intro for our guest today. But uh, yeah, completely separate. By the way, Brittany.

SPEAKER_05:

I don't think you do, but she's one of us. The governor is one of us.

SPEAKER_04:

You're right. She is. And for people that might not know, we have uh the governor, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, uh, who was the press secretary for Trump. I think it's when people got to know her, but she's an awesome governor of Arkansas. Her dad is Mike Huckabee, who was the governor of Arkansas. And actually, I don't know if you guys remember. I mean, I love Mike Huckabee. Um, but it's gonna be fun. So we're definitely excited to have her on. Before we do that, we've got to thank our sponsors, Original Glory, Patriot Mobile, eSpaces, of course. Let's get it. Let's do it. Here's a governor. Uh Governor, I'm not sure uh who convinced you to do this podcast or who your advisors are, but you might vet them a little better next time. But we appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I'm not sure who signed me up either. So if it doesn't go well, we may have to let some people go, but I'll tell them that you guys are hiring and uh look for y'all and stuff.

SPEAKER_02:

That's perfect. We're hiring, but we don't really have a lot of um budget right now for for pay. But we would gladly take a uh an intern, a high qualified intern.

SPEAKER_03:

And if you do have to let someone go, I mean, nothing better than a good old-fashioned post-Thanksgiving firing. You know?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that always we have an amazing team, so I've I feel pretty pretty solid about our crew, but um I I think we'll be all right. Nobody nobody's getting let go before Christmas over here.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, good. Let's start with this because a little plug for us. We always like to talk about us, by the way. January 15th, the very first show of the Jason Al Dean 2026 tour is in none other than Little Rock, Arkansas. Yeah. So consider this your formal invite to come out to the show.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll be there. We're super excited. It's been on our calendar uh for a long time. And the only bad part about you guys starting off in Arkansas is that that means the rest of the year is going to be a real disappointment because you're starting at the top. And I don't know how you will beat spending the first concert and opening date here in Arkansas after that. But um, we're excited to host you. I know that people from all over the state will be coming in, and um I know that you will get a very warm and excited welcome from the people here in our state.

SPEAKER_04:

Wow, I like that governor. She's setting a high bar for us. I love her.

SPEAKER_03:

Always really good to us there, too. Absolutely. Always, always a great time.

SPEAKER_04:

Hey, let's go with an icebreaker question since we're talking about concerts. What was the last concert you saw? And then, two-part question, what was the very first concert you went to as a kid?

SPEAKER_05:

Great questions.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, these are good questions. So I actually uh went and saw Riley Green uh just a few days ago. He was here in Arkansas at the same venue that you guys are playing at. And I mean, not to put pressure on you to bring me on stage or anything, but I did get to go on stage and I did, I think, a pretty good job. Uh, don't worry, I was not asked to sing, I was not asked to play an instrument because I could have cleared the place out very quickly. Uh, but they did ask me to serve drinks. Um, and so I don't know if I should be insulted or really proud that they asked me to come up, but it was a lot of fun, and uh my my whole family was there. It was a good time. But the first concert I ever saw, and this is actually one of my favorite questions to ask other people, um, but the first concert I ever saw was Colin Ray. Um, he's from Arkansas, and he's from uh the corner of the state that I'm from, really small town in South Arkansas. I grew up in Texas, canada, it's right on the line of Texas and Arkansas, and he played the uh Four States Fair Rodeo. Um, and as a kid, we went out and saw him. And since then, um being in this role, I've gotten a chance to know Colin, and he came and sang at my inauguration and sang the national anthem. So a pretty incredible full circle moment, first concert, and then he was there on the day I took office as governor.

SPEAKER_05:

Wow.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Do you have any Sarah Huckabee t-shirts? Like merch. I do.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_05:

No, no, I'm no, I'm challenging these two to wear them on stage.

SPEAKER_02:

I have no problem with that. I'll I'll wear anything. Black. He won't wear anything but black, though. Well, and they have to be kind of cut up and frayed so they can look a little cool, you know? Because they're rock stars.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. What if uh we supply some cool uh Sarah Hugby Sanders merch and you guys can wear them on stage?

SPEAKER_03:

I like it. We're in. I'm in. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It feels like a or a hat or something funny like that.

SPEAKER_02:

I love it. Okay. Well, another hardball question. Uh another hardball question, just right out of the shoot. Um what was it like growing up in the home of a bass player?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I think my dad's like one disappointment as a parent is that he was unable to force um my brothers and I to play musical instruments. He was so hopeful that one of us would have a musical gift. Um, so much so that now as a grandparent, um, he has gifted all of his grandkids musical instruments, um, hoping that one of them will pick it up. We we've unfortunately received the electric drums, guitars, all kinds of things, really loud stuff is usually uh what he gifts our kids. But um, he's very hopeful that one of his seven grandkids will learn to play a musical instrument because my brothers and I were not gifted with that gene. So I play the radio, and that's about it for my musical talent.

SPEAKER_02:

So he really wanted a like a partridge family vibe then before he got into politics. He wanted he wanted that. Go out on the road with the I've actually got a I've actually got a better idea.

SPEAKER_05:

What if he came up and played bass? I'll try that in a small town. Oh wow. Yeah, give Tully a little break.

SPEAKER_01:

Hey, he he's actually a very talented musician. He's a great bass player.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, he can he can play. Tully might have to give him the stance, you know, because there's a particular stance on that song that Tully has mastered and it's gonna take some time. It's true.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh it's you know, when my dad was a kid, he wanted to be the fifth Beatle, and that didn't work out very well. Um he's decent, but he's not that good. And so uh he went into politics instead, but he learned that as a politician who also plays the guitar, he could play with some pretty great musical acts. And so um he started his own band while he was governor, and they called it Capital Offense. Um, and he said they pretty much offended everybody, and they would play at big events around the state all the time, and it was uh really fun to watch and um a great icebreaker too, something that he loved doing then and still enjoys to this day.

SPEAKER_03:

He didn't have Bill Clinton playing saxophone though in the BND.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think they have played together a couple. See wow. They're both from uh, you know, you know, you talk about a small town, they're both from a tiny little Hope, Arkansas. So a town of about eight or nine thousand people, and they're both from the the same hometown. It's amazing and play musical instruments and ha and have been governor of Arkansas.

SPEAKER_04:

That's so crazy. Hey, let me ask you about your dad. Of course, Mike How could be former governor of Arkansas. I think it's fascinating from the outside what your relationship would be with your dad, uh, both politically and personally. And do they uh are they ever separate? Do you ever lean on one thing and not the other, or do they always bleed into each other?

SPEAKER_01:

Definitely uh some some separation. Um I'm really close with both my parents. Um my dad has been um my biggest mentor, biggest example, but that also makes it hard because he is and was an incredible governor, had the privilege of serving in this job for nearly 11 years, and he set the bar really high. And there's probably no better communicator in our country than my dad. I'm obviously not biased at all in my opinions, but he's pretty amazing. And um, to follow in his footsteps every place I go into in our state, you know, somebody they know him, they remember him. Um, he did something for their town and their community, and they're like, your dad's amazing, we love him, he's so great. You seem okay. Um, and so living up to this very high bar that he has set can be a challenge, but it's also um a lot to strive for, a lot to work for, and he has been a great resource anytime I need something or advice um in life or in this job or any other. Um he's one of the first phone calls I make.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, pretty cool to be governor. I mean I I'm just looking, I mean how cool. I want to be governor.

SPEAKER_04:

No, you don't.

SPEAKER_03:

I just want to be honorary, honorary governor for like a few hours.

SPEAKER_05:

Is it is is it is it tougher to be a mom or to be governor? Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a hard question. I you know, being a mom, I think makes me a better governor because I know that every decision I'm making impacts my own kids as much as every other kid in the country. You can't stomper in the in the state. And you're setting that example, and you know whatever you're doing is going to impact your own kids. I mean, I have a 13-year-old daughter, um, which comes with a whole new set of challenges. Um, being a parent to a teenager is new territory for us. And then I have two boys that are 12 and 10. And so there is um always a lot of uh chaos and craziness at our house. But my kids also serve as a permanent reminder of everything that is at stake. And um, they're very good at at keeping you humble, putting you in your place, and so you can go around as the governor, and people are excited when you come in a room. They may stand up, they may cheer, and then you go home, and your kids will remind you very quickly that you're actually not that special. Um they're very good at putting you back in your place, but they also are very good at reminding you what's really important, and that has been a great um point of inspiration for me in this role and everything else. And so I think being a mom makes me a much better governor. Um, but being a mom may be the hardest job and certainly the most important one that I have.

SPEAKER_02:

What about uh stress-wise, being press secretary or governor?

SPEAKER_01:

It's just very different types of stress. Um, you know, being the press secretary was one of the most challenging, um, but also one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. It was the honor of a lifetime to get to do that for two and a half years. But in that role, um, I was not there because anyone had elected me. I was there to speak on behalf of somebody else. It was President Trump's agenda, President Trump's vision and ideas that I was trying to communicate to other people. Now those decisions lie on my shoulders. It's my name at the bottom of the page. And so there's a different level of responsibility when you're the one making the decisions, when you're the one setting the policy. And so it is a very different type of stress, and it's um pretty unbelievable how quickly the weight of the office hits you. In Arkansas, you take the oath and you immediately go just minutes later into your first legislative session. And so right away, you are um in the mix and making decisions that are going to change people's lives one way or another. And so that weight is something you feel very quickly, um, but it is a responsibility that I've been really honored and proud to have the opportunity to do. Um, and both jobs I've loved, but just in really different ways.

SPEAKER_04:

Man, talk about being thrown into the fire. Uh I think I think most people remember you or come came to know you in 2017 when you became the press secretary. Uh, at a very uh hostile time, especially from the the left-wing media, you know, it was Russia, Russia, Russia, or uh, you know, impeachment or stormy Daniels, for God's sake. But uh, could anything have prepared you for that role? Did you have any uh idea what you were stepping into?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh no clue. To be totally honest. You know, and I had never really been um in a public-facing role until I went to work for President Trump. I grew up in politics, um, I'd worked on campaigns and run them all over the country as an operative and a political strategist, and I, you know, loved that part of it, but I'd never been the person on the other side of the camera until I went to work for President Trump in 2016 on his campaign. In fact, he I got hired to come on as a senior advisor in large part to help with outreach to women, evangelicals in the South, and supposed to help kind of develop those coalitions. And I got a call one day where they asked me if I was willing to go on TV and do an interview. They needed more uh surrogates and more people out talking about and spreading the president's message. Or at that point it was candidate Trump's message, and I didn't know enough to say no, so I said sure. And I did an interview on daytime CNN. I think my mom and a couple of my cousins were the only people that watched it. And I guess somebody on the Trump campaign, because they said, Hey, you're not that bad. They didn't tell me I was good. They said you're not that bad. Will you do it again tomorrow? And so the next day I went on, and every day for a week I did TV, and then I get this call, big booming voice, no hello, no greeting, just directly jumps into it. I don't care what they hired you for, I don't care what you're supposed to be doing, I don't want you to do anything else for me other than go on TV. And it was then candidate Trump. So for the next nine months, almost every day I went on TV as a surrogate for the president. And um, you know, he makes history, wins the presidency, and two weeks later we were moving our family from Little Rock, Arkansas, um, to go work in the White House, and I was one of the first groups on the day he took office to go in, and within six months, I was the White House press secretary. So a pretty wild ride. Um, and certainly not at all what I saw coming.

SPEAKER_02:

Was there was there any time when you were with Trump and in that advisement role when you either got a chance to or thought about saying, uh sir, I I wouldn't say that or tweet that or let's delete that. Did did you ever suggest anything like that? And what if so, how do you respond? And what do you respond?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah, we had quite a few of those conversations. Yeah. Uh you know, and that's that's what I love about this president. One of the things that I think a lot of people don't know and don't appreciate about him is he actually loves to take in information from all different sides, all different viewpoints, but ultimately he's the decision maker. And so he is happy to listen to other people make the case. Um, but once he makes the decision, um, then you move forward with whatever that is. And so there were moments where I was like, oh, maybe we don't say that, or what if we said it like this instead? And sometimes he was open to it, and other times he said, Hey, you know what? We're gonna do it like I said. I'm like, okay, great. Like you said, it's like you said it is how I wanted to say it all along, so we'll go with that. Um and you know, he has incredible political instincts and has the ability to read the electorate in a way that very few people I've ever seen do. It's how he won in 2016, is he was able to tap into something that nobody else could have. Um, and it's how he's built a movement, is he sees and understands um the voting electorate and the base in a way that that most people often miss. And he's usually ahead of the curve. In knowing what people care about, what's going to interest them, what's going to move them. And he's not afraid to break things and talk about stuff that most people would avoid. He dives in all the way, and people find it very refreshing that he's not some scripted robot. He's not somebody who just follows what the consultants and the norm are. He follows his instinct and he's right.

SPEAKER_04:

I love that. Hey, let's let's do a hard pivot to college football. Pivot. We're going to pivot. I know you're a huge Arkansas Razorbacks fan. And of course, there's been a lot of movement in the college coaching circle in the last uh few days and week. And Arkansas is one of those. You have a new head coach, Ryan Silverfield, I believe. What do you think of the new coach?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I'm excited to see what he can bring to the program. Um I'm a diehard, lifelong Razorback fan, and I want us to win games. Uh, I want us to bring the energy and the excitement back to our program. Just in the first 24 hours of him coming on as head coach, he's already been able to recruit some of the top talent from here in state that were planning to go elsewhere. Uh so that's a good sign. I hope that he can continue that momentum, and I hope he can put some points on the scoreboard and get us across the finish line next season uh and pick up some some big wins. Arkansas is always right on the cusp. We had so many games this year that we should have won and just couldn't close the deal at the end. And so uh I'm the always optimistic Razorback fan. I I will watch the game until the final second, thinking we can be behind by 20. And my family's like, there's no way we come back from this. I'm like, there's still a chance. And they're like, mom, there's 20 seconds. They cannot score. This is impossible. I'm like, let's just make sure. Um, so I always believe that this is the year. I'm hopeful under the new coach that we'll have a big season. But what I think the real problem is, um, is one of the worst things to happen to college football is the craziness with NIL uh and the transfer portal. We have broken college football. And the way that it functions now, in my opinion, is a total disaster. I've decided though, if this whole uh you know governor thing doesn't work out, I would really like to be a college football coach that gets fired because you make so much money. And I don't even I don't even have to be a good coach. I can just be a fundraiser, um, which I'm pretty decent at. So I think I'm setting up for a pretty good second career. If uh this doesn't work out, I can go be a a fundraiser for a college football program.

SPEAKER_05:

Hey, do you see do you see uh the I kind of do, do you see the government having to step in when it's all said and done and fix the college football, the NIL pro all of it and put it in parameters around it?

SPEAKER_01:

I I hate the idea of government taking over college sports because usually whatever the government takes over, they screw up. Um but the system is so broken right now that we do need a fix. There's you know no real loyalty to a program. There's so much, I think, turmoil, and we're getting to a place where only the biggest, highest funded schools have a chance. Um, and it should be it, that's I don't think the way that it should be set up. And so it's a disaster of a system. I don't know what the fix looks like, but I think everybody's getting to that kind of breaking point of wanting to see something different when it comes to college athletics.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, we need kind of a lane kiffin type lore. You know, somebody that really sticks in there.

SPEAKER_03:

It really sees it through to the end, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

Some of a lane spirit, you know. I'm an SEC loyalist, but not that.

SPEAKER_04:

No, yeah, yeah. Um so speaking of Arkansas and famous Razorbacks, I have no idea. So I wanted to ask, do you have any relationship with Jerry Jones and or Jimmy Johnson, actually, for that matter?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, not Jimmy, but Jerry, um, great Arkansan. Um we like to remind people that he's from Arkansas when when Texas is always you know touting him out there, but um he's been great for our state and has hosted the Arkansas AM game. Uh we had about 10 years where we played that game and that rivalry uh there in Dallas, and it was always a lot of fun. And if you'll go back and look, he's in razorback gear. He's wearing razorback red at those games. So uh, you know, uh there's a lot of history for greatness in um and from Arkansas when it comes to football. Uh, so many of the greats have an Arkansas tie uh from Jerry Jones to Bear Bryant to so many others who first started or uh lived in Arkansas or started their coaching career here.

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SPEAKER_04:

Do you follow Pro Sports at all? Because I've I've seen this, I thought I saw an interview talking about how you need more time to manage your fantasy football team. Oh, let's get to it. And if you do fantasy football, do you do one of those really clever names, like where if you have Dak Prescott, it's the Dak Street Boys.

SPEAKER_01:

My 10-year-old um help kind of helps manage my fantasy team, which is really unfair because it's a family uh competition, and so he manages my team in order to make me lose every week I play him. Um so I I've really gotten too busy to the point that my 10-year-old is absolutely crushing me in fantasy most of the time. But my husband is born and raised in Kansas City, and when we were dating and we started having a lot of like serious conversations about whether or not this was gonna work and whether or not we thought we could, you know, go the distance. Uh, you have big, big conversations. Do you want kids? Where do you want to live? What do you want to be when you grow up? And which sports teams are you committed to? And so we made an agreement in that moment that he would take on Arkansas Razorback College Sports and become a college Arkansas fan. And I would take on all the Kansas City professional teams. And so I became a Chiefs fan and a Royals fan, and I was a Chiefs fan before it was cool back in the Alex Smith days when nobody else was cheering for the Chiefs. Our family was still there. Um, but have become over the last uh almost 16 years of marriage a pretty big Chiefs and Royals fan. Um and he has been a very committed Arkansas Razorback fan, and we put it to the test. Um, you know, I think when he made that deal, he didn't expect that it would really uh change his ability to still cheer for some KU sports. But um in the last several years, we've played KU in uh football bowl game uh and KU multiple times in college basketball, and he has loyally worn razorback red for all of those competitions. So uh we both held up our end of the uh of the deal, and it's worked out pretty well for both of us.

SPEAKER_03:

That's called that's called love, Governor. How's he feeling that's true love? How's he feeling about the uh about the well the Chiefs? The Chiefs right now are you know 500 looking human for once, and I still, you know, I'm a I'm a Patriots fan, but Mahomes scares me half to death.

SPEAKER_01:

So sorry about that. So sorry about that.

SPEAKER_03:

Hey, look, I I'm I love my homes and they're good, they're buddies of ours. And I still people always count the Chiefs out when they're I mean, no way. If if they make the playoffs, I'm I'm still scared to death of Mahomes and Kelsey and And everybody should be.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, what he has the ability to do, even if I wasn't a Chiefs fan, it's hard to watch Patrick Mahomes play football and not just be amazed by what he's able to accomplish. And I mean, he's a total magician. Um, I think one of the reasons I believe that the Razorbacks can always come back, and I want to watch until the final second is because I've been a Chiefs fan, I've watched Patrick Mahomes do it. I think maybe this will happen on the Razorbacks too, but he always manages to find a way to win. Um, and they have so much talent on the team this year. So uh I I'm hopeful that they the playoffs, uh, they'll make it into the playoffs and uh be able to have a little bit of a historic comeback.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, he can he can definitely lead them there, that's for sure. He he's if you're uh if you're a Chiefs fan, you should always feel good about Andy Reid and Mahomes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I mean, there's really just so many dynamic playmakers there that uh if they make it to the playoffs, um, I think they will certainly be a team to watch.

SPEAKER_04:

Gavin, we could talk about nonsense forever, that's for sure. But we do want to give you your flowers for a little bit. Uh I want to talk about the Learns Act, and you know, from what I understand, Arkansas had uh teachers, their starting wages, it was somewhere in the bottom of the country, it was around 48th. But with this, you put such an emphasis on that. It got them to the top of the nation. Uh we all have kids. Obviously, we know how important teachers are. Can you talk about that and why you put an emphasis on that?

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. We didn't want to just put an emphasis on one part of education. Um I was tired of watching Arkansas, always at the bottom, uh, 48th, 49th, 50th in every category in education, whether it was teacher pay, literacy performance, math, science, everywhere you looked, we were really struggling to make movement up. And so I knew that if we wanted to see transformational change, we had to bring about transformational legislation. And so that's what we did. And with Arkansas Learns, we did everything from raising our starting teacher pay. Uh, like you said, we were at the very bottom, 48th in the country, to top five. We went from$36,000 to$50,000 for starting teacher pay. We made sure every single teacher in the state got at least a$2,000 raise. And one of the things that was really important that we wanted to do was not just give across the board raises, but we also wanted to really recognize teachers who went above and beyond. And so we instituted a merit-based bonus system as well. And last year alone, we were able to give out up to$10,000 in bonuses to over 4,000 educators across our state, really not just recognizing, but rewarding the hard work of people who are doing so much for the students across Arkansas. Um, we put in literacy coaches in every corner of the state, really focusing on helping our kids meet that critical benchmark of being able to read by the time they hit third grade, getting rid of indoctrination and CRT. Um, and we did all of this in one piece of legislation. I like to say we were one big, beautiful bill before it existed. And um, it's made a real difference in our state. We've seen continued progress, continued growth and achievement among our students when a lot of the nation is declining in education. Arkansas is slowly ticking up, and I'm really proud of what we've been able to accomplish. And I know that we're just on the cusp of continuing to move up. We also opened up uh universal school choice to every single student in the state, and we now have over 50,000 kids that are receiving education freedom account money getting to go to the school that best fits their needs. And we know that's not just impacting those students, but it's their families, it's the communities they live in, and those kids' lives will forever be changed because they are in an environment where they can really succeed. And that's been our goal. Know that every kid has the ability to learn and the ability to be successful, but that's gonna look different for every child. So we have to create a system that allows for that to happen. I think we've been able to do that here in Arkansas.

SPEAKER_04:

Incredible. Yeah, absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and just a just a fun opening question that's nowhere related to anything you just said. But uh everybody wants to know do you follow James Comey on social media? And if so, are you impressed with how he thinks he's conveying the truth in those videos?

SPEAKER_01:

I've I've not now, nor have I ever been impressed by anything James Comey is doing. You know, my very first on-camera press briefing was the day after Donald Trump fired Comey. Uh it was probably one of the most terrifying moments of my life. And I was the deputy at the time, and I was filling in for Sean Spicer, who was on Navy duty, and the president the night before this uh debut moment for me, he fires Comey, and everybody thought that the world was going to end. Now, every single day, he's vindicated more and more by the decision that he made. It goes back to what I was saying before that he has great political instinct and he trusts his gut, and he's been right. And that's a perfect example of when everybody else pushed back and said that he shouldn't have done it or that it wasn't the right decision, and he couldn't have been more right on making that decision and sticking to his guns.

SPEAKER_04:

Governor, uh, we can't thank you enough. We know you could and should be doing other things, um, but we're thankful that you joined us. We're gonna hold you to that date in January, so we'll see you then.

SPEAKER_05:

Yep. We need more leaders like that. We're looking forward to seeing you guys then. We need more leaders like you. Amen.

unknown:

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank y'all so much for having me. And I look forward to seeing you guys in your uh Sarah Sanders for governor.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

We'll be ready.

SPEAKER_04:

I'll be looking for that merch box. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you, Governor. Thank y'all. Why do we insist on getting people way more accomplished and smarter than us in hopes that it'll make us look smarter?

SPEAKER_02:

Is that what it is? Is it doing that or is it having the opposite? Well, as long as they don't use uh what we say in the edit, then yeah, if we just nod our heads as if we know these things. It doesn't bother me. You know, they keep doing it.

SPEAKER_05:

They keep doing it. They seem to like it. It's fine, it doesn't bother me. I don't feel I don't I'm I don't feel that stupid.

SPEAKER_04:

That's because you're stupid. If you were smart, you'd realize how stupid you were. Oh, this came out with the fire. He's actually pretty accurate. It's close to the holidays. That's pretty awesome. I think you know, we've been lucky enough to have a like a few politicians on here, or even if it's whatever, actors or athletes. It's people only see them one way and it's like, oh, she's whatever, she's a politician, she's a robot, she's just uh doing this, but you it humanizes people and it's like, man, she's cool.

SPEAKER_05:

She's one of us. She's one of us.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, much smarter, but you know, she brought up a good point, you know, which we we've touched on before. Like it's uh for me, it's hard to uh she talking about how how having kids helped her be a better governor. And it makes me think it's like it's like a good answer. How could you be in that position w without having kids? Because how can you relate to you know all the things that really matter? So it that's a you know interesting it's like it should be a rule. You know how yeah, yeah. I mean, how do you know what it's like and how can you make those decisions on policy and teachers and everything? If you don't have kids, none of that really matters. That's right. It's hard. I mean, I I mean, I'm you know, just my small brain.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, no, it's a val it's a valid point. Um it's hard for me to say that, but it's a valid point. It really was a really good idea. I wanted to I was dogged.

SPEAKER_05:

I wanted to ask her if she took relaxum. What is relaxing? Her dad sells it. You hadn't seen the commercials? No. Oh my god. Like infomercials or something. He makes you want to buy anything and everything. I bet K Lo. I bet Klo has two cases of relaxium that is good. I don't.

SPEAKER_02:

Now I will I will attest that I have ordered Balance for Nature a couple times. But he's he's good. He's good.

SPEAKER_04:

He's like on Fox or whatever on the commercial. Everywhere. Really? Oh my god. I hadn't seen him in a while.

SPEAKER_02:

Is he still doing them? Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't play his bass on that commercial. That's the only thing I've ever seen him that doesn't play bass on. Yeah, he didn't. On the Mike Huckabee show, he would play bass with his band and uh other members that would come and he would jam. I mean, he's a player. He can act, he can play. Huh. Look at Tully. Look at Tully's face. I mean, I but you gotta see him. He he can play. And even even the governors uh qualms about it, you know.

SPEAKER_05:

But Tully's everybody, I mean Tully's definition of playing bass is different than everybody else.

SPEAKER_04:

If Mike Huckabee plays bass, I mean this isn't related to Mike Huckabee, but I I think it's because it's funny we have people that we know who are friends and they're whatever on a banking role or job, and they always were like, Yeah, I was gonna go do the I was gonna go do the band thing, and like it's that easy because you know how to write song every time we're playing, and it's like, bro, you've got no idea.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, can I come down to your hospital and and fix a heart? You mind? I'd like to try it. I'm a surgeon. I've I've you know, I think I can do it.

SPEAKER_03:

I always want to do that operating thing. Yeah, I was always gonna do that. I should have did that. Yeah. The whole space shuttle thing. I should have just did that. See. You could have. That astronaut thing. Nobody plays bass like you, Tully.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I mean, that's a trip.

SPEAKER_03:

That actually is true. Nobody plays bass like you. I I think for some uh for some reason music's got this thing where it's like if if someone owns guitar and bass and they play it. I play guitar. Right. It's a if it's if no one ever really says that though they don't they don't you know what else would be like that.

SPEAKER_04:

Did we ever tell the Sam Darnold story?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, this is great. Please tell it.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you guys know who Sam Darnold is quarterback? He got drafted number one by maybe the Rams. Yeah. He came out to a show and he was with I think his girlfriend or fiance and he came in the the Whiskey River before the show and we're all there with Al Dean and you know everybody in the band and she was like you know Sam plays guitar. He's a guitarist and you could just kind of see him go, oh wow Yeah he got a guitar for Christmas. Yeah that kind of thing. Sam's a guitarist and Jay who is in our band who is definitely known for speaking up in what he thinks he goes oh I got a football look at me I'm a quarterback that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03:

But but to be fair it's true.

SPEAKER_02:

It's like look you know like it's you know I saw I saw a thing uh last night um I gotta find it again because it was you know you just Sam Radio Sam Darnold sorry yeah fix it. I was scrolling on on Instagram and there was this for a random reason it just can't came up and it was a it was a like like bass players anonymous it they it was like AA except they were all bass players yeah and they were in there and they all had their bass and everything they had these sad depressing stories you know about being a bass player and like and like how they weren't respected and the band like yeah you know I had these ideas you know but the lead singer you know said he didn't want to hear them and all that and goes oh bro that's so terrible you know and he goes and anyway it was really it was hysterical I thought of you um none of them were like you of course because they hadn't you know made it but it was it made me think of you so well what does that look no I I mean it was just it was just funny.

SPEAKER_03:

It was just because it was funny. It's definitely um definitely harder to uh get noticed as a bass player in the classic version of that word. So but there's you know but then you have like people like Sting and Paul McCartney and who just set the brand. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04:

So it's yeah but there's I mean in the in the uh for for some reason yeah the the the the you know the bass is always the the the one that's uh gets picked on the most gets picked on the most see what you did there see see what you did there but you you make bass players cool you make bass playing cool well thank you neil you you make beards cool thanks there it is it is really coming in yeah it's time to trim no yeah it's time to trim no not not cut it but shape it's what does Lana think keeps going oh it looks so good yeah for the listeners Lana is Neil's wife and she's here in studio yes well you know what Lana did she gave us this amazing tree I know always takes care of us it's the holiday season and it's a very patriotic tree with with our sponsors that we got original glory beer drinking those original ornaments in our East basis studio yeah that's the way to go and obviously we love East basis and um we should ask people we did our Christmas episode of last year got mixed reviews.

SPEAKER_03:

Did it really well I remember that we were really weird about it because we were probably drunk when we're doing it but I I feel like it went over well did it not I think there were some people that liked it.

SPEAKER_04:

It was uh did we get some negative reviews remember after we did the episode we were like oh my gosh I don't know if we can air that because we were just we were just off the cuff.

SPEAKER_05:

But that was the eggnog that we were the Evan Williams eggnog sponsorship.

SPEAKER_02:

That's a uh again well yeah I think I think we I think we have to do another Christmas we have to I was worried after the at that episode I was like are people gonna listen to that or watch it and think that do we like each other at all? Because it seems so intense. You know like the people if you're you've got two parents you're rich. I'm like that's just what it that's where I'm from that was that was how you benchmark that's not good.

SPEAKER_04:

But anyway maybe we should just pick up where we left off from last are we doing it right now I think it's right we'll pick up we should ask our listeners to leave us a comment maybe uh them tell us their favorite Christmas movie we'll talk about Christmas movies we'll talk about whatever maybe they can help us with that.

SPEAKER_03:

Maybe some questions some more questions from the listeners.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah we need that we'll have a question episode I want to talk about Christmas songs. Christmas songs and yeah you can you can write one and when and when we get when we get the phone call to hey we from the publisher hey could you write a Christmas song and I'm like I just it totally turns me off man Hey Neil just go home and and write one on Suno say some words men reindeer Christmas tree and they'll just I've been trying to forget about AI I really have but that's not a bad idea.

SPEAKER_03:

It's actually been on my mind right in the front of my mind it's Chat GPT the gift it keeps on giving it's really taken up for a different reason.

SPEAKER_04:

It is pretty impressive what it can do but yeah as far as taking our job that sucks.

SPEAKER_02:

Well a little bummer yeah and well uh Chat GPT can give you a great Suno prompt uh it really helps if you're doing it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah but it does it really does well you talk about uh we we were just kind of joking about it but that's what people can do now who aren't songwriters they can pretend to be oh yeah and that's uh I don't know why it always happens to music like like that like I I feel like it's music's always the one to get the the hardest you know through the the creatives on the music side not the business side business side always finds a way to flourish yeah prosper. But the creatives are always on the front line. Yeah they get replaced well and the the technology not races the law you know where there are people in the old like wars in the back in the day when you kneel down people on the front line in the front line where they and they're just lining up facing each other like back in the old how did they convince those people to be in the front line dude and they gotta stand there and just hope they don't get hit. Oh they're getting hit they're getting hit but it was the rules of war like the right they just stand there and you you load your musket up and you just shoot. And I feel like that's what the Strongwriters and the creators are. That's right. We're the kamagazi I like that that's what it feels like. Yeah if you don't get hit you're lucky and you gotta get to load your musket and fire it. Yeah it's like what the hell's going on?

SPEAKER_02:

Well it's a I mean it's a whole episode but it's like the more you think about it like like AI is pulling from all of the commercial songs that have been released and been successful to to put together this song that you know somebody in in in Arkansas is saying hey I want a a a unique song from my girlfriend her name is is Sarah and I I really are really crazy about her and she drives a blue car, whatever. And it will come up with a pretty good song but it's based on all the other things that professional songwriters have created so in some kind of way it seems like you know how when they have the lawsuit settlements with obviously that songwriters get a piece of that because so since we've all put into that it seems like you would get something back out of it.

SPEAKER_04:

I heard a AI song somebody sent on us the other day and I was like well that lick is from the song even though it might not be as much but that's uh that's the the uh argument I guess against it. It can only take from what has already been there.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. It can't create which was created by demons.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah so well we are chipping away I don't want to turn this into a AI episode but we are chipping away again at the the soul of Nashville and the way it's done you know it's another another um avenue to okay so you know as soon as the song comes out the demo the the the track's done the mix is done you know so it's just taking you know people that would play on sessions or demos like we used to do or people that mix the demos for a living engineers. I just hate I hate to see it. I mean it and that's uh that's the old man to me I guess but that's um I just hate to see another that piece of the industry in this town kind of disappear.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah it's another little piece of the heart of Nashville Merry Christmas everybody we'll see you next week blessings to all the Lord comes back between now and then that's always possible we don't know when it's gonna be it is nor do the angels in heaven know really brought that down didn't I boy sorry guys eSpaces we we we want to thank eSpaces uh they provided us with this incredible studio we love it the office building is oh it's very awesome we're we actually we can look out right now we can see people hopefully we're not bothering them but they're out there working in their cubicles and it's an awesome deal contact people at eSpaces if you're looking for a place to work uh original glory beer we love those guys we love that beer in the tree right there those are empty cans for a reason yeah for a reason yeah we drink those of course Patriot Mobile we want to thank them uh it's an awesome service go to patriotmobile.com uh put in the code smalltown you can get a free month I love Patriot Mobile's logo love it's fantastic everything they do is right I'm liking those commercials too with uh Britney and Jason oh yeah we do need to put them on the tree yeah we need an ornament follow us Instagram X if you're watching on YouTube leave us a comment review download the episode please seriously though the comments have been fun don't stop on the comments uh ask questions whether it's Christmas related or not because we're gonna do an episode where we get to all of those uh anything else I love you guys I love you too Neil yeah love you choose love yeah it wouldn't be cool if this table was like a football field well Lena's gonna do it oh no and then we could put it takes the four of us there you go that's perfect that's amazing it takes the four of us in the end zone yeah Neil that's brilliant brilliant yes I did it again Lana and Jim Jim's over the like like four I mean who's running this did you guys notice the last episode or was it the last episode or the one before we asked Jim something and then it cuts to him and he has a little mic in the camera there it's like oh the people see Jim it's like the Howard Stern show over there do you have it? Can you do a quick yeah he's ready that's Jim at a moment's notice. We're thankful for Jim we never we never actually say that honestly we are thankful for Jim buddy thank you and in the in the pay cut you're taking in 2026 thank you Jim and by the way Merry Christmas everybody telling that that possibly is poor timing but we'll like to get it before the fiscal year ends you know it's go ahead and oh my god it's best to get this like this appointment early December. Yeah uh the fruit cake's coming Jelly of the month jelly of the month publisher jelly of the month absolutely all right well we but this this is bleeding into our Christmas episode I think it's a good precursor yeah all right we appreciate you thanks for watching listening this is a try that the small town podcast