The Wisdom We Share Podcast

Humour as Medicine: Finding Light, Justice and Joy with Marlene Fischer

• Season 1 • Episode 14

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Message us with your thoughts, burning questions, or reflections, we’d love to hear from you.

In this heartfelt and laughter-filled conversation, we sit down with humourist, author and blogger Marlene Fischer to explore how comedy can become medicine for grief, ageing, injustice and the beautiful absurdity of everyday life. 
 
From getting physically trapped in a sports bra to navigating profound loss, Marlene shares how humour has helped her move through life’s hardest moments. We talk about laughter as healing, the fine line between playful and cruel humour, activism in midlife, Groundhog Day traditions, and why writing daily vignettes has become both discipline and devotion. 
 
Marlene’s honesty, courage and wit remind us that wisdom does not have to be heavy. It can be light, sharp, loving and deeply human all at once. 
 
In this episode, we explore: 
 

  • Why laughter can be powerful medicine for grief and loss 
  • The difference between laughing with and laughing at 
  • How midlife and menopause can become a creative renaissance 
  • Humour as activism and social commentary
  • The deeper message behind the film Groundhog Day 
  • Showing up consistently as a writer, even when it is hard 
  • Community, mentorship and supporting other women to find their next chapter 

Everyday mindfulness through ordinary tasks like laundry, food shopping and chocolate 
 
Marlene is the author of: 
 

  • Gained a Daughter but Nearly Lost My Mind: How I Planned a Backyard Wedding During a Pandemic 
  • Trapped in My Sports Bra and Other Harrowing Tales 
  • I Was Hoping to Age Like a Fine Wine but I’m Feeling More Like an Avocado 
     

You can find Marlene here:
 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marlenekf914
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aisle4marlene
Substack: https://marlenefischer.substack.com/
 
You can also find her books by searching her name on Amazon or through your local bookstore. 
 
If this conversation made you laugh, reflect, or feel less alone, please subscribe, share and leave us a review. Your support helps us continue bringing these meaningful conversations to life. 
 
Until next time, stay wise.

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life is is absurd and funny and a lot of aspects as a kid I was drawn to writers like Erma Bombek um I had mentioned when we went to the Catskills I loved hearing the Borscht Belt comedians and laughing is good for you and it's fun and it feels good and so I enjoy trying to make other people laugh because I enjoy laughing as well always makes me feel better to have a good laugh welcome to the Wisdom We Share podcast where ancient truths and modern intelligence weave together to inspire ground and shape us for a wiser awakened life I'm Angela Amrit and I'm Robin Wald and together we bring you fascinating conversations from the worlds of spirituality science and human behavior so you can connect to your own inner wisdom joy and clarity elevating the way you actually live your life I am so excited to have my friend Marlene Karen Fisher join us today uh Marlene Karen Fisher is a humorist and blogger with nearly 60,000 followers on her thoughts from aisle 4 Facebook page and substack she's the author of three hilarious and insightful books gained a daughter but nearly lost my mind how I planned a backyard wedding during a pandemic trapped in my sports bra and other harrowing tales and I was hoping to age like a fine wine but I'm feeling more like an avocado Marlene is the mother of three sons and has one grandson and three beloved daughters in law she writes about parenting grand parenting aging and is a self proclaimed expert in laundry and stain removal more recently Marlene also blogs about US politics and she apologizes to the international listeners for the current administration on a personal note I've known Marlene for many years we practice yoga together and she always makes me laugh I know Marlene to be both funny and deeply caring about her loved ones her community and the state of the world so welcome to the wisdom we share podcast today I'm so happy to be here and that was a pretty thorough introduction so thank you you're welcome you're welcome so I wanna jump in and start by asking how did you find yourself being a humorist right there are so many things to write about that you could write about like what is it about you that really seeks to to find what's funny in the messiness and chaos of ordinary life I don't think I I seek to find it I think it pops out um life is is absurd and funny in a lot of aspects as a kid I was drawn to writers like Erma Bombek um I had mentioned when we went to the Catskills I loved hearing the Borscht Belt comedians and laughing is good for you and it's fun and it feels good and so I enjoy trying to make other people laugh because I enjoy laughing as well always makes me feel better to have a good laugh Marlene I sometimes think that laughter is medicine uh for it can be medicine for things to go through in life and I know you've talked about grief a lot in your writings and and and everything that you do um I personally I've I've experienced a lot of grief in my life I'm still grieving two 2 fur babies which is often not spoke about you know when you don't have kids um you don't really have a family but you have fur baby families how do you feel that humour um can be medicine you know my mum also lost a son I lost my brother and often we will turn to humour something humorous on TV or something or talk about things in a humorous way how can it be medicine for us do you think um I too lost an infant son and my brother when he was in his 40s um and these are very difficult things it's not necessarily in the natural order and yes for babies that is a loss um I am a pet lover I've had dogs I currently have a dog um I mean have you ever lost control with your good friend and you just devolve into laughter and it feeds on itself and you can't stop and you just get the giggles how good does that feel after when you've had a moment or two like that where you just keep devolving and it just can break tension and there was a Mary Tyler Moore episode where she was laughing when her friend chuckles the clown at his funeral I think he was crushed he was wearing a peanut costume and he was crushed by an elephant and she just uncontrollably starts laughing and it was her way to deal with grief and I think for some people it is a way to deal I know it does help me and in turn I try and help others by doing that so it's definitely medicine as as much or better than anything you can take orally by prescription yeah I I think as well life can be quite it can be quite diminishing as we grow older as well and the more that we have an experienced loss and you know for me personally I I reach for humour particularly and when I teach and when I coach and mentor I include humor because and lightness and levity and all great masters and gurus do is you know it's like don't take it all so seriously even when it feels serious and that's not to diminish our experiences but I think it's wonderful medicine to have humour and to your perspective on life for me it's not just humour it it's deeply philosophical but I'll I'll hand it to Robin so I've got so many questions but I'll hand it to Robin and then I'll ask my other I'll wait in turn so I'll just piggyback on that and say that you know I've experienced that some people take themselves very seriously and really get offended or defensive if anyone tries to you know tease them or point out something quirky or that is laughable but some people have really get very upset and I don't know if that comes from insecurity or from some wounds where they felt bullied or teased or you know invalidated when they were younger and they're on high alert so I'm not gonna judge anybody's experience but I do think there's something so wonderful when we can be light hearted about ourselves see our own flaws laugh at and make fun of our own flaws like be open to laughing when someone else is laughing at us with us like okay you know I think that that's a very special quality that not everybody has so I'm curious have you always been able to laugh at yourself or did something in your youth kind of like invite you into that like um that's a really good question I don't know that I ever thought about it I think I just was always a little funny and one of my parents was a little more serious and one of my parents was a little more serious less serious I had different things going on and I Learned to do it in my head if it wasn't appreciated for me saying out loud but as I got older and more comfortable in my skin I stopped saying it in my head and I taught my kids to be funny I have three very funny sons dry humor quick witted and I think that helps them navigate we all try and outdo each other in humor and they best me all the time and I love it and I'm okay with them making fun of me look I am tired and you know my youngest used to say he was it's like a nursing home here he was living home for a year he told his brothers he was taking care of us in the home um but as long as it doesn't cross over to mean and that can happen too um you can't it's okay to be funny and laugh at yourself and laugh at others but not be cruel there there is a line there and uh I do try not to cross it so yeah it's important that we we understand isn't it the difference between making fun with each other and making fun of another and I think your work just hits that razor's edge so beautifully I am fascinated by the way you see life your perspective on life because it doesn't come from the conditioned societal familiar it doesn't come from any of that it comes from a very unique your own I would even venture to say your soul or spirit's perspective it's very clean it's very pure um you talk about um in your book uh trapped in my Sports Bra it's hilarious on the surface but the descriptions also for me point to marriage parenting to loss you know um for me you know midlife is quite an underrated emotional reality and what you've managed to do is bring some really raw really honest truth about that subject matter in a way that is really relatable do you do you how when you're writing when you were writing that did you just go I'll just lay it all out here did or was it more of a cathartic process for you or did you go through the catharsis and then write it um I don't think there is a process I did get trapped in my sports bra Robin helped me navigate I witnessed to that she was dealing with a shoulder injury that was very limiting in our yoga practice for a long time that she was pitying because she literally got stuck in the sports bra and tweaked her shoulder and the rotator so so I it was covid and I was working out and gained a few pounds the sports bra was tight and it didn't have a hook in the back so it was wet I was sweaty and I got it up to about here and women know it like spandex it like rolled and it's like in a little ball between here and here and I'm tugging and that's how I got the injury but it's funny I mean you think about the imagery of someone being you know trapped in their sports bra and I should have probably cut it off but I probably would have stabbed myself and bled out um so I opted to keep trying to get it off and that turned out to be a very big mistake huge but I don't think I have a process I think I'm very honest and like I said I'm not afraid of making fun of myself and in retrospect it's funny it's people wrote in that was a post that did really well on my Facebook page one woman said she got stuck trying to take a dress over her head in a dressing room and she fell over and she broke her leg and they had to call the ambulance and people were regaling all kinds of stories and it allowed them to share and laugh she said she literally shopped until she dropped and she people were really funny and they appreciated the chance to vent and so I think I'm just honest and if you're really honest um things are funny and if you have a way to to just so I don't really have a process am I is it cathartic I I guess it's cathartic but I sometimes chuckle while I'm writing and I just enjoy doing it and then I love people their reactions when they relate and they laugh and I I feel good about it so I've seen you take something we talked about during a yoga session together and you would you were like you know you'll hear something that I say or something that you say and you'll in that moment you'll have like the light bulb go off and you'll say oh this would make a really funny post and then the next thing I know later that day you've posted it and the next day it's a blog entry I remember when I gave you a tarot reading and that was the first time you had had a tarot reading and there was a card with it was a 4 of pentacles card and the woman was holding her purse and you were like oh my gosh I really like that purse where can I get that purse and you did this whole funny take on seeing yourself like looking for that person as it there's just something about being open to the light heartedness and where that could take you is so relatable then to your readers and I have Stern stick I I do love Hamburg bags that's really true and Groundhog today is is we we just mailed our holiday card Robin look for yours in the mail today um and Hugh Jackman I have recurrent themes that I love to talk about um wait Hugh Jackman's Australian right yeah yeah he is oh my God that maybe that's why I love Australia I oh he's he's like my guy don't tell well my husband knows it's okay is he is he your hall pass he's my hall pass um oh cute come on please get in touch we'll put you together we're gonna have to tag you Jackman in this post yeah well yes yes um I saw a show with him once and he I was like in the third row and he was sitting on the steps singing to me and I thought okay well now if I die today it's okay it's it's it's a I've I've reached the Pinnacle so it's fine um but yeah so I don't even know what we're talking about but where I I got I heard Hugh Jackman and I literally went down the down that road tell us tell us a little bit about Groundhogs Day I don't know if this is a thing in Australia it's not a thing so please explain it's not a thing in England either so I've no idea what you are talking about so but not only is Marlene's got for the listeners her mouth is literally wide open explain people is it not a thing outside of the US but it's not a thing outside of Marlene Fisher like nobody Celebrate Groundhog's Day people send holiday Robin it's Groundhog Day not Groundhog please correct me Groundhog Day no possessive no apostrophe um people send holiday cards Christmas cards New Year's cards birthday cards Marlene sends a Groundhog Day card she's the only person in the world I think who does this what is that about for you why is that a thing so I was interviewed by Accuweather about this um because they found an article I had written about ground it's it's a it's a day it's if you look on a US calendar it says Groundhog Day every February 2nd whenever that falls and since the I don't know 1800s they pull in Puxatony Pennsylvania they pull a rodent out of a burrow and he whispers in their ear whether he sees his shadow or not and whether there's gonna be an early spring or six more years six more years that's what it feels six more weeks of winter so back in the 80s I guess uh Bill Murray you probably know who Bill at the actor did a movie called Groundhog Day where he's a weatherman and he gets stuck reliving February 2nd over and over and over and over and over and he's really miserable in the beginning and he falls in love with Andie Macdowell and he wants to make her love him back but he's so miserable until he worked there's such a good meaning it's amazing movie for anyone who hasn't seen it and he has all the time in the world and he figures out how to improve himself and how to do for others it's funny it's it's has a great message it's truly an amazing movie that has stood the test of time and so in December we could never get our act together as I say like normal people to send out a holiday card January we'd roll around we're like what can we send the card out for and my family not just me we we didn't want to do Valentine's Day eh like boring whatever you don't but Groundhog Day is very special I I've ordered a groundhog cake we watch the movie over and over I used to make my kids watch the movie on February 2nd cause they run it in a continuous loop on TV and they would complain now they all watch it my youngest makes his girlfriend watch it and it's become their tradition everyone knows February 2nd it's it's the fisher's holiday and it's a lot of fun and it's also a really good message if you had all the how would you improve yourself reassess it's it's sort of better than New Year's cause it's a day to think about reassessing so I I love the holiday um and watch the movie if you haven't seen it I have so seen that movie many times and and I agree it's just got this beautiful for for a start there's no killing and murdering um haha and it's got this beautiful message of if you had to do the day over and over you know at first he's like real sneaky and tricky and then he realizes actually it's better if you're a good person and and I think that I don't know I think from reading some of your writing and some of your work I think that deep down whether it's conscious or not Marlene you are doing that as well for your readers your who you call mates um you're doing that and I think there's something much deeper in your work I know it is it is very funny it's incredibly relatable but also that those two combined it goes to a much deeper place of um a deep connection you know human to human and these human experiences that we have and bringing a much deeper message do you write with that intention I bet you don't but I'm curious as to whether you do or not um I truly deeply want this world to be a better place and a fairer place and a more equitable kinder place um so I I hope that comes through in my writing because at the end of the day I just it's it's misery I I believe people deserve food and healthcare and kindness and I'd rather maybe some people they talk about gaming the system I'd rather some people all right maybe someone's gaming the system but I'd rather other people are covered who need it and so that's part of my my mission my writing to gently or not so gently lately um maybe try and make the world a better place and um 1 that's through laughter and 2 pointing out the um inequities of life and I don't know I just I I think I'm a little bit ideal or a lot of bit idealistic and and would prefer to see something a little better uh on this planet and the and the environment and so many issues I'm a grandma now and a Nana and I I want a better world for my grandson and future grandchildren and everyone not just mine everyone's grandchildren so yeah when I write I I have that in my mind too maybe I can sway somebody to act differently or do something or call to action or something so that's in the back of there more so lately than in my earlier writings and I hope to go back to I hope we can get this world to a place where I can spend more time writing about falling apart and uh you know my hip that hurts and and everything that comes after menopause and and beyond which is a tricky spot in life so yeah I'd like to go back to being lighter because especially the events here this past weekend with um something's going on I don't want to be overly political in this podcast but that that does weigh on my mind a lot so yeah that's been more in my current and recent writings it uh do you feel that writing about the inequities and the injustices that you see and kind of being that voice which is a call to action do you feel that that somehow is also medicine for you personally around you know what could draw you down into a very dark cynical you know kind of hateful place right and because politics is it's ugly and there's there's so much negativity and so much charge to that and we can get really angry in response or what you're doing is kind of you know you're expressing it in a way that is then inspiring others to maybe behave differently so I'm wondering again also I guess you've already spoken to this but but did you ever consider yourself to be an activist as a writer I never was I was I never thought of myself as a feminist an activist none of it um uh but as I've gotten older that's come out more and you say hateful I am I have a lot of hate right now it doesn't help prevent me from being hateful I I have a lot of anger in my heart at the current things that are going on um and but I feel that it's it's better to be productive and tell people you know I'm going to protest this weekend and maybe you you should too and maybe we should think about this issue and here's something you can do or contribute or call or here are actual things we can do besides venting and having a community which is also important I want people to feel less alone because that is really important people despair and feel alone but also to to meet up and and see these people in person and um so whereas I never really thought of myself as an activist uh I find it's become more necessary and I wanna be out there and be able to say I tried I tried I wrote I I did all the things I could and sometimes it's frustrating cause I don't think I'm making a difference at all but then you know we don't always know what what kind of difference we're making what the ripple effect is so I'm hopeful there's something or somebody out there who who heeds or feels something or motivated or at least less alone well you have you have a wonderful community you have an online community of you know thousands of people so you have influence and it's interesting that we've just moved into an era from Pisces to Aries you know from the last house to the first which is all about individuation and coming you know into our own and and for me um sure we can have an emotion of anger and frustration but we're not seeing the bigger picture and I think if we can zoom out and see the bigger picture that this is a shift in paradigm and everything's got to crumble and there has to be a catalyst for that and so if we can see that what is happening in the world that simply catalyst for a breakdown and the catalyst ignites the fire in our belly and we're not gonna stand up and protest we're not gonna say hey this is not okay if it's comfortable and so we have to get squeezed we have to get really uncomfortable and then we'll speak up and I love that you're riding those waves those first boats of speaking up and you know getting engaged and being involved and I think that's very commendable of you and I think if we all you know we don't have to be attached to the fruits of our actions we just have to know hey I'm gonna speak up for what I know is true for what I know is good and I I you know I I see you as a do gooder more than you know anything else is you're doing good you're doing such a great work in the world and I think that you know your your work is touching many people in many ways it certainly did for me when I you know was looking at your work and how you write and what you write about it's incredibly impactful and our energy is very incredibly impactful so we have to you know continue that really really powerful work so for your future you know if you look at the coming few years and post menopause like you said I'm in that same boat as well what do you what do you have in mind to write do you have another book coming that um you have in mind more posts where do you see yourself going especially in this economic political climate of transition um that's a really good question also I don't know I I couldn't have predicted any of this when I started I had three readers and probably one of them was my mother um and another was like my best friend and so way has LED to way and it's just been a path that has evolved whereas I started blogging more about my kids and um how rotten they were especially when they were little but they're really not all that rotten and they're grown UPS now so they can you know there's still stuff to write about maybe a fourth book about being a grandparent I don't know um that's a interesting thing that's happened and there is what to write about with that I have a second grandchild due in may um and but I like writing on substack books are a lot of effort um they it takes such a long time and it's such a process and the editing and it's it really could take you know a year to and I kind of like writing these small vignettes and on substack and doing it daily and it seems more manageable to break it down unless I have enough material and I put it all together again but we'll see right now I'm writing mostly about current events and things happening I would like to pivot but it's interesting when I write about other things right now it does OK but the thing people really wanna read about is the stuff in the news right now and so I don't necessarily wanna pigeonhole myself but I do respond to what people wanna read about so that's where I am right now and um I went with my oldest kids and my grandson on vacation a few weeks ago on a baby moon which is apparently a holiday you go on before you have a baby didn't exist in my day um so I wrote a couple of funny posts about that and I said it should be a grandbaby moon and yeah we and and it was fun and it was nice to be with them for a few days but they had balloons and all these things in their room I had nothing um and I feel like that's something hotels should work on and but I yeah so I wrote a couple of funny posts about being away with them and grandparenthood so I I do still throw them in every now and again uh but we'll see what the future I couldn't have predicted any of this like being on podcasts or having Accuweather interview me regarding Groundhog Day or yeah so you just sort of see where do your best and see where it leads and I have a couple of friends who kept inspiring me and I'm like why am I doing this in the beginning I was making no money and I had no readers and I'm spending all this time spinning my wheels and she's like you don't know where it'll lead keep going I had a few people like that and and that's why you need best friends to to push you along and to lift you up and to say you can do this so um I wanna be there for other women who reach out to me and inspire them to find their new act and whatever is in their heart because look we we all have wisdom we've gotten to this point we know stuff we know shit am I allowed to say shit on a podcast yes wow yeah so we all have different kinds of wisdom and so we need each other to say keep going you got this do this podcast reach out you know just so yeah I I don't know where I'm going long answer I have no idea we'll we'll see or I could stop at some point if I've if I have had enough and feel good I don't know hmm well I wanna ask you about your writing books are different long process a lot of planning but what you've shifted to with the substack is a daily writing practice and a daily post and I'm curious is that challenging to show up every day and force yourself to sit down and find something to say and then put it in words and post it is there ever a day when you're like uh not today I'm just not gonna do that like what keeps you coming back and where does that discipline come from I have no idea cause really I'm pretty lazy so um I really don't know I I don't write every day I probably put out 5 substacks a week maybe I take one day off on the weekends and one day off during the week on a day I'm busy with yoga and other things Wednesdays I don't always write um weird is that I don't wanna disappoint my readers I wanna see how far I can go and grow and that only happens if you keep going I I took a 30 a very short 30 year hiatus to raise my children and so I didn't have the career I made maybe wanted my kid the the childbearing years ended up being very extended and um I have a big age gap in my my kids ages and my husband wasn't home a lot of reasons didn't happen and so it's happening now and I want to seize this moment because I don't know that you know into the future how long but yeah there are days I'm like I don't want to do this but there's so much to write about and talk about I open a paper I I read my emails and the news and I'm like oh yeah um it's some of them actually write themselves I sit down and before I know it's it's there so then I have to edit it and put it up but yeah some days it's a pain in the neck but any job is um absolutely any job there are things you like more about it and things you like less about it so I just uh but for the most part part I'm loving what I'm doing now so it's uh it feels good that's the key when you love what you do it's not work and I think you're an amazing role model for um especially for older women you know women who have moved into that sage time of their life the wise woman time of their life because you're saying yeah you're saying to everyone very clearly and not through your mouth but but through your actions that life isn't over after midlife life is just beginning and and you are I see you are just blossoming as who you are you've done your drama you've raised your family you've done all of the things that you came here to do for others and now you're able to express your own wisdom and I think that that is so undervalued and underrated in our society the wisdom that post midlife people men and women have particularly women cause we carry the stories with us and you are especially carrying stories with you and you are a voice for and of the people so um I just wanna you know thank you for being brave because you are and you probably don't think that you are but you are very brave and courageous in what you write and how you write and just as we're wrapping up I want to ask do you have a daily practice other than writing which is your daily practice obviously do you have any other daily practice that you do that just keeps you on the straight and narrow keeps the world kind of lined up for you well you've been really good for my ego so I just want to say I don't feel brave but thank you you I got wow what an ego boost daily things I eat chocolate every day that's a huge with my coffee in the morning that's a huge daily practice a little bit of yoga uh what cleaning I'm I'm I really I'm like Monica on friends I find I find cleaning very and laundry same like not joking a little therapeutic going through the the repetitive motions of that it's sort of I can clear my mind and just use the do things physically and sometimes when I'm actually my my blog is thoughts for Mile 4 I used to food shop a lot with three sons and while I'd be in the aisles some of my best ideas came to me when I'm doing things that are not necessarily sitting and focusing um so even food shopping can be a practice although I do it a lot less'cause mostly just me and my husband and my dog who are home right now but um yeah so I don't know I don't necessarily do as much yoga as I should sorry Robin um or I don't meditate I probably should do more of that cause I do have anxiety but um with the other stuff I'm more lazy in the better weather I do walk a lot um right now it's about 400 inches of snow outside and and zero degrees so I haven't been doing that and I'm missing that so I find moving outside a little bit even though I'm not much of an athlete and that that I can't wait to get back to that practice when the spring comes well Molly what you are doing is practicing presence and mindfulness so if you didn't know that then if that's a revelation to you that's what you are doing you are practicing presence awareness and that's why your writing is reaching so many people because yoga and meditation isn't necessarily done on a mat it's done when we can be very present with our day to day practices our day to day washing dishes day to day cleaning and you are you are doing that and so that is your daily practice and you're doing it so well you're doing it unconsciously so um you can do it and and applaud yourself now when you're doing it because you're doing it so so well can I come back tomorrow when I'm not feeling good about or any day I'll just like I wanna be interviewed by these people again cause they make me feel so good yeah so thank you that's what mentorship does and that's what community does you know and and we all need that all of us we need that so um keep going with your community you know it's been an absolute pleasure so nice to have met you thank you so much for having me on thank you so much for being on and um where's the best place for people to find your books and with what's your substack we'll we'll add links in the you know show notes for people as well but where would you like so my books just look up by name or by their name or my name on Amazon or you can ask your local bookstores to order it um Amazon dot com or Walmart dot com um my substack is Marlene Substack for lack of a more original name and my blog is thoughts from Mile 4 if you look up thoughts from Mile 4 on Facebook you will find me in a wonderful community of like minded people actually a lot of Australians a lot of Canadians too I'm surprised they're still talking to us but a lot of Canadians a lot of Australians so we have an international community which is unbelievable here I sit in the cold and people from all over the world look at the internet isn't that incredible so yeah so they can find me if they want to you are so much fun to spend time with thank you for everything you do for what you write for the inspiration the wisdom that you had to share today um we'll link everything in the show notes for people to find you and I can't wait to see what you do next me too yeah thank you guys bye bye thank you so much for tuning in to the wisdom We share podcast we hope today's episode sparks some new insight imagination and practical tools you can integrate into your daily life continue this journey with us by subscribing sharing and dropping us a review until next time stay wise

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Anjani Amriit

Host
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Robin Wald

Host
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Marlene Fischer

Guest