Never Too Festive: Parenting with More Joy & Less Mom Guilt

18. Tips for Fostering Independent Play and Creativity with Jill Lerman

• Elizabeth Hambleton

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Unlock the secrets to enriching your parenting journey with the transformative power of play! In this invigorating episode of Never Too Festive, we're honored to host Jill Lerman, an inspiring play and parenting coach who transitioned from being a Manhattan preschool teacher to guiding families during the pandemic. Jill's firsthand experiences reveal the simplicity and joy that play brings, sharing strategies to keep playtime engaging without overloading on new toys. Discover how using everyday items can ignite creativity and joy for both parents and children.

Ever wonder how to empower your kids to resolve their own disputes? Jill provides invaluable insights into sibling play and conflict resolution, highlighting the role of parents as moderators rather than problem-solvers. Drawing on her teaching experience, she shares practical techniques like splitting materials and taking turns to help children develop essential life skills. We even draw on timeless wisdom from "Daniel Tiger" jingles, making them a practical tool for teaching and redirecting gently amidst the chaos.

We also tackle the digital age's most pressing challenge: screen time. Jill offers actionable tips for gradually reducing screen dependency and creating a balanced, interactive environment. Learn about the importance of independent play and how to foster it through play prompts and idea jars. Whether it's guiding children to manage their creative expectations or finding practical ways to promote self-directed activities, this episode is packed with actionable advice and encouragement tailored to modern, busy families. Tune in and transform your approach to parenting through the magic of play!

Grab Jill's free Guide to Independent Play at any age!

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to another episode of Never Too Festive. Today we have a guest who's gonna teach us one of the things that I know we all struggle with, and those are the words mommy, will you play with me? We sometimes, if you're like me, we mean well, but we don't always know how to respond to that, or we feel lost, or we feel guilty because we're not fun enough. If you have any of those concerns, this episode is for you. Hey there, mama, and welcome to Never Too Festive, the podcast where we celebrate the extraordinary in everyday motherhood.

Speaker 1:

I'm Elizabeth Hambleton, your host and fellow mom on a mission to help you rediscover your sparkle, redefine your style and reclaim your sense of self in the midst of motherhood mayhem, do you ever feel like you've lost touch with the stylish, confident woman you used to be before?

Speaker 1:

kids. Are you tired of living in yoga pants and feeling like you've gone from thriving to just surviving? Well, mama, it's time to reclaim joy, creativity and style, while embracing the fabulous mom you were meant to be. So grab your iced coffee and join me as we embark on a stylish adventure together, because here, on Never Too Festive, there's no such thing as too much sparkle, too much flair or too much celebration. Get ready to shine bright and live your most fabulous, joyful life, because you deserve it. Today, we're welcoming Jill Lerman, who is a play and parenting coach. I'm so excited to have you on. Thank you so much for coming.

Speaker 3:

I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 1:

Thanks, so I would love to start off with just sort of how did you get into this sort of specialty and a focus on play, Because there's a lot of different parenting coaches in the world who do kind of different things. How did play become your thing? Yeah for sure.

Speaker 3:

So I guess, to start, I was a preschool teacher, an early childhood educator, in preschools in the Manhattan area, which is where I live, and I taught specifically in the preschool program and also in the parenting centers of these schools. So some of the feeder classes that were more like a mommy and me with babies and young toddlers, and all of those classes were play-based and how can we facilitate play experiences at home. And really, as a teacher, I just fell in love with play and the power of play and I saw again and again how simple prompts could just come alive at the hands of a child, how they saw possibilities in objects that we as adults don't see and how it really I feel as an educator was the best tool that we have to support them across all areas of development. And so, as I was teaching, I also started my own business where I would take these play classes and facilitate them in people's homes, in play spaces, in stores in and around the Manhattan area, and was really just focused on how can I help people to use things they already have at home in new and unique ways and show them hey, we don't have to reinvent the wheel to create engaging experiences that are going to get our children excited about playing.

Speaker 3:

And then the pandemic happened and, like so many other businesses, my model as I knew it had to pivot.

Speaker 3:

I was teaching my preschool class finished out the year virtually, and I also found out I was pregnant the same week. So I realized at that point okay, everything as I knew it is going to have to shift and I started sharing on social media. People were spending more time at home than ever. They didn't have access to the same types of things that they used to, and so I started to share ideas about how they could facilitate simple play at home. And then, when I became a parent myself, I started to realize, hey, even more, I needed more simplicity. What I thought was simple wasn't even simple enough for me when I was really in the throes of the early parenting days and I just wanted lower prep, lower cleanup and I wanted more sources of joy and connection personally. So my work in play kind of took on a whole new purpose in our lives, and that was when I really started to pivot into more coaching with families and how they could create that environment at home.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's funny, there's so many different ways I could go with it.

Speaker 1:

I actually feel like the pandemic was like the peak of my play experience as a parent, of my play experience as a parent because, yeah, I am sort of naturally creative and I had the time kind of to your simplicity point right, like when we weren't doing anything else, I had the time to come up with these, elaborate like I did a whole 10 week travel from home thing in the summer because, like we couldn't leave the house, right, we had to cancel all our trips and we're a big traveling family that we did, like around the world and I would do an act, a country, every week and we did an activity and a food and a craft and, like we had a like I don't know, we had a high tea one week and we studied England and we watched like Paddington Bear, like you know.

Speaker 1:

So we really did like a movie, like all this stuff. But then, yeah, now that it's like real life again, I feel like I don't have time to set up a Tour de France bike race, you know, every week in the summer it's just gotten totally got that busier. Um, and when this is going live, like we're recording kind of end of summer, and I know a lot of people by this point in the summer are like, oh my gosh, my kid hates everything they own. What do you? What tangible tip for, like when kids say like I don't love anything, I'm just over it? Like, how do you make what you have feel fresh or new without constantly buying new stuff to play with?

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, so this is. I love that question so much. That's a huge part of the work that I do with families, so I think it's worth mentioning the school that I spend most of my time working in was a Reggio-inspired school, so for people that are not familiar, that's an educational philosophy that's very much about collaboration, about child-led learning child-led ideas.

Speaker 3:

So it's a great question. They definitely have some things in common. So it's a great question, they definitely have some things in common. I would say the biggest difference is that Montessori has a lot of focus on individual work and individual learning, where I think Reggio is a lot more about kind of how a class of students or a group comes together and works collaboratively. I'd say would be the biggest differences. But they have a lot of commonality in terms of being child-led and respect for the child's ideas, things like that.

Speaker 3:

But it really tuned me into this idea of us, whether you're an educator, whether you're a parent, which you're then also an educator in many ways to observe your child and learn about their interests and learn about their play style, and then that helps us to then create opportunities that are going to follow their interests Because, just like us as adults, kids are going to be so much more engaged with a play experience, and that's also constantly because their interests are evolving, their skills are evolving. But when we can have our observation hat on, even if we're just kind of watching for, you know, a minute, while they're kind of in a child led moment, we're going to pick up on some of these things that are going to give us information, to help then create engaging experiences. And the reason that I think that applies to what you're asking is that you know, if we kind of get tipped off to, my child is super into kind of engineering right now, right, how things work, constructive play, but they're really kind of over their Duplo blocks, cause that was like the thing that they were playing with for the last couple of months. That was like their go-to. Now we're kind of over it but it might then tune us into. They're still into that kind of play. They're not into that material.

Speaker 3:

So what other things can we build with? Now, that doesn't necessarily have to, it could also be okay. Well, what other things do we have that maybe weren't getting as much play that we can kind of bring into the rotation and bring at the forefront? Maybe we place that out with figurines from a movie or a character that they're super into and just kind of give them that prompt to spark them and spark their play. Maybe we're taking this building thing that they're into but we're moving it into a different location than they typically play with it and that just gives it that little something to spark and get them going. So that's one thing is sort of taking things you already have, setting them out in unique ways, setting them out in unique places, and then also taking kind of that place, superpower or that interest and thinking about OK, what else do we have that could kind of follow this thing they're into, but it's a little different than what they're doing.

Speaker 3:

So, giving the building example, maybe that's not using their usual blocks or building materials, maybe that's not using their usual blocks or building materials. Maybe we take some of our recyclables and kind of put them out in a basket and kind of create this opportunity for, hmm, I wonder what we could create with these. And maybe it's something like, again, following their interests. If they're really into I don't know superheroes right now.

Speaker 3:

Maybe it's like the Hulk needs a hideout. I wonder how we can make a super big hideout with these boxes that he could use. Hmm, it has to be really big because the Hulk is, you know, he's a big guy right. So we're kind of giving them that something to get them started. We're following things they're already into, but we're also letting this be an open-ended and child-led experience where their ideas are what's going to make this happen and there's not one way to do it, because that's the other key to an engaging experience is that there's plenty of different ways they could do it. There's not a right or wrong, and then they can also then take their play in new directions and kind of elongate the amount of time they're playing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's such a good tip that I've never really fully considered is taking the same item but putting it in a different location, like taking it outside or doing it like in a different room, because it is true that we tend to do the same, a lot of the same things in the same spots, time and time again. So that's yeah that's an interesting, budget-friendly, easy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah know, everyone can put that one into practice today. Yeah, I wanted to build on something you said about play styles, which I'm not an expert so I might be interpreting this incorrectly, but when I think of my two kids, who are 7 and 10 for reference for anyone listening they have very different play styles. For anyone listening, they have very different play styles and one tends to be very rigid and it's like if we're gonna play, let's say, barbies, and we're gonna have a shop for our barbies and they're gonna come shop at the barbies and then sometimes maybe this is the kid in me I like to be like a bad shop attendant and I ask for a lot of break stuff and she'll be like you're not doing it right, this is wrong. Or when my kids play together, that's a common complaint of like you're not building the marble track correctly.

Speaker 1:

It's like a lot about not being right or not following the vision. Yes, about not being right or not following the vision. Yes, how do you moderate that or coach that? Or like am I supposed to follow the vision? Like, what am I supposed to be doing as a facilitator, either when it's me and the child, or me and both children, or both children Help me Like what's happening there.

Speaker 3:

It's such a good question. I so I actually I have a like a monthly membership where I share simple play ideas every month, and there's also like a class, like a developmental play class, that drops every month on a different topic, and last month's topic was about sibling play and cause. This is something that comes up all the time. I think there's some overlap in the answer and then some things are a little different. So I'm going to try to tackle both. With the sibling play piece of it, I'm always of the mindset and maybe this is the teacher in me but we always want to try to give an opportunity for our kids to kind of resolve some of these things on their own, and sometimes they do. However, it's also our job as the parent and also the play facilitator to kind of step in when they need that support. So I think that my, my go-to in the example you gave like, let's say, with the marble run would be like a we have this one set of materials to make this marble run and we have two I want to say friends, because that's how I would do it in the classroom we have two siblings here that have different ideas. Gosh, what can we? What can we do about this? You want to do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah whatever that one said, and he's thinking that he wants to blah blah, blah, blah, blah. What can we do? And this is now like it's a play thing, but it also is, like I feel like just in parenting in general, just such a good way to approach any situation that kind of arises like this around conflict, with different things, because what we're doing is then we're kind of putting this in the hands of our children. We're giving them the opportunity to be the problem solvers in this situation, right, and that's a life skill that we want them to have, because there will be many different things that come up in their friendships and through their lives and as they grow. We're not gonna be there to facilitate, so we wanna help kind of give them the skills to figure this out, and I think our role in that is kind of being that moderator. I'm gonna present the problem. This is what I'm noticing about what you're saying, this is what I'm noticing about you're saying what do you guys think? And then we kind of facilitate that conversation. Why don't you tell me first what you're thinking? Okay, why don't you tell me what you're hmm, so how can we do this? How can we honor?

Speaker 3:

Those are both really great ideas, what both of you want to do, and I think that sometimes they come up with that solution. Then and again, kids always seeing those possibilities that we don't even notice right, they come up with that solution on their own, maybe something we wouldn't have even thought of. Sometimes it's about we can't, right, gosh, there's no way to make this happen. So now, what do we do? Okay, maybe that means we split the set into two, we make two different, smaller marble runs that are not connected, and then we show each other how the others works and we can kind of test it out. Then they might get excited. Okay, how do we now combine our two things? Now we're also elongating the play.

Speaker 3:

So I think this is going to be different situationally, but my instinct is to say that we kind of come from this place of facilitation and letting them be the problem solvers, that we kind of come from this place of facilitation and letting them be the problem solvers, that we give them the forum to kind of you want this, you want this, gosh, those are both really good ideas. What do we do here? And if we can figure it out. How do we create opportunities to honor both of the things that you want to do? And then I think that that's something that's also great for, like play dates.

Speaker 3:

When things come up and you know we have different opportunities. Look, there are other things that I could offer here of like, let's take turns, let's try it your way first, let's try that, but in my experience, sometimes that works. In my experience, everyone wants to feel heard and everyone wants to feel like their idea, which they're incredibly proud of, which is really well thought out in their mind, especially as our kids get older, you know, they want to feel like that's being honored, and sometimes the best way to do that just give them that forum. Ultimately, then we have to work separately and then sometimes back with no, I want the whole thing, all right, then we have to find a way. Then how do we make this work and does that make sense?

Speaker 3:

You know I think that kind of coming yeah, I think coming from that place is always going to be, is always going to be the key.

Speaker 1:

It reminds me of that. Daniel Tiger, uh jingle, like you're big enough, you're big enough to figure out what to do like I wish, yes, oh, my god over here it's.

Speaker 3:

Can I tell you, and I'd love to hear like you're a parent with and your children are a little older my daughter is three, but I that that's still. I feel like Daniel Tiger applies to every situation of life and there's always like, oh, there's a Daniel Tiger song for that and I'm like I hope this just always continues, like I find myself singing to myself as an adult.

Speaker 1:

I thought it was we would used to joke too that it was the polite way, at least in our social circle, to correct someone else's child where it's like you know, you have like another kid over, um, who I don't know, doing something right, and if you sing them the daniels hager jingle, it feels like the polite way to redirect, instead of being like, yeah, little johnny, you're wrong, like implying I don't know that the parent hasn't, especially if the parent isn't stepping in, and that can be so awkward when it's like, ooh, do I correct? But it's like you know and I don't remember as many of them as I used to, but there's a few that stayed in our family Kind of funny. The tiger family trip song is also still.

Speaker 3:

Yes, oh my God, every time we get in the car, elizabeth, every time we get in the car, my daughter's like especially if we're all there, like yeah, my husband, me and my daughter Then like that's, it's go time, it doesn't matter if we're going around the corner, it's a Tiger family trip. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's also like if we're headed to the airport and see someone saying Tiger Family Trip, even though, yeah, I was 10. So I love it.

Speaker 3:

Oh my gosh. I'm so glad to hear that it lives on, because I'm like what will we do? Like how it has taught so many life lessons and honestly, like I said, I find myself singing to myself in certain situations, Right when my daughter's not even here. I'm like, wow, then this has really done a number on our family in the best way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it is. Well, it made everything so sort of hithy or like you know, like it's just like the one line tagline for any play situation yes, they did what you did at that moment.

Speaker 3:

It's so true and like in a succinct and perfect, catchy way um, yeah, oh. And then to answer your other question, going back to it, about, like, when you're in it as the parent, I think, like some of the same things blah, talk about that. Except if you look at, hmm, you know you seem to have a different idea of what you want to happen here than mama's idea. You know, like, let's kind of talk this out like that kind of thing. So it could be, it could be something like that and sort of approaching it that way.

Speaker 3:

And you know, I think that that also is an important skill in life in terms of, like, flexibility. Right, I want to honor your idea. But also, like, when different people are collaborating together, we have to kind of have respect for everyone's ideas, and the same is true even in play. So I feel like that is one angle when you're kind of involved in the play that way. And the other thing that comes to mind is this is also why I tend to lean into kind of these open-ended play experiences that are less about my direct involvement and more about me kind of being in that observational role, and then the child can sort of direct whatever they want to do and there's really no right or wrong for them and there's no right or wrong for me because it's that open-ended. So I think it sort of depends on you know what kind of the place situation is if that makes sense.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, absolutely, and I totally agree, I think it's.

Speaker 1:

It's a balance between sort of letting for me, I and not that, not that I'm an expert, but I tend, I think my innate sense is that I balance sort of okay, this is her time to kind of be the captain of the ship, which she doesn't always get and I think she craves at some level.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so, like, sure, you can be the captain of the barbie ship and you can tell me that my character is supposed to go hang up clothes for the shop and I don't get a break and whatever it is, um, in the same way that I tell you no, we really are going to school, you got to put your shoes on right. So I think in some ways it's a balancing of that for her. But then also sometimes it's like okay, I think, because our and I don't know if this is because we are a little bit more sort of overtly creative, focused maybe, than some household, I don't know if this maybe comes up for us more, or maybe it's universal, I'm not totally sure, but sometimes I think there's a drive for perfection, even in play, that like if we do crafts or we do things, it has to be like the perfect craft or the perfect time and it has to be.

Speaker 1:

We get these very large visions around. This is what it's going to be and it's going to be this great and it's going to be this long and it's going to have music like it can really, yes, I roll in a yes, well, creative way, but also in a like whoa, this is a lot kind of way and yeah. So then there, I think there's that's the part that I maybe try to help her tamper down a little of like what is perfect for Barbie, it's like it could be okay, that's right.

Speaker 1:

You know, I don't know, the house falls over one time, like we don't need to cry and be like, oh my God, this is crazy, like it could just be. Yeah, this is crazy, like it could just be. Yeah, oh, there was an earthquake in California. Like, ok, now we're like, how do we roll? How?

Speaker 3:

do we roll with this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Like yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's such a good point, it's right, I mean, and there are, I think, like it's. Some of this is like a personality thing too, right, and certain children definitely, I think, are, you know, just the same way as adults are more kind of, you know, perfection driven, or maybe have more of a clear vision, you know about their work in the same way that we do. I was just talking to a client about this. Actually, I think that's some of our job in that situation, because she, her son, is like, is very into building right now, a little younger than your kids, he's five but it's very much like there is a way this is supposed to be and when it doesn't happen like that, he kind of falls, he falls apart too, and we were talking about that and I, you know kind of how, how do we manage that? And I feel like a lot of it is, you know, honoring the feeling, right, and some of that is the disappointment of it not going the way you want, because I think we can all relate to that of like, oh gosh, you had this idea in your mind and it didn't come out the way you wanted it. To God, that's so frustrating. I remember a time that happened to me and like sharing that, or you know, gosh, it seems like you wanted to go a certain way and it's not going right. I wonder what's going on right? And just sort of like because play, look, I could like geek out about this, for we could just go on and on.

Speaker 3:

But you know, play really is how our children make sense of the world around them, and in more ways than one.

Speaker 3:

Sometimes that comes in the form of, you know, we're actually kind of recreating a life experience, like maybe we just went to the doctor and now our dolls are going to the doctor, right.

Speaker 3:

So sometimes it's a little more clear and tangible. And sometimes it's in examples like the one you're giving, where it's just like it's this larger life concept of how do I manage things not going my way, or what do I do when there's something I want and I see it so clearly and I just can't get it to happen the way I want it to. And play allows us these opportunities to practice and to have these conversations and I think that sometimes that you know that's really clear about what that is right, like in the doctor example or in the we're reenacting this thing that we just went through, and sometimes it's these less obvious things, like the one you're describing, where, like that's a life skill that's being developed in this moment and we have an opportunity to kind of help them work through those feelings in their play, which is then going to give them the tools that they need to work through them in their life, when these things come up again and again.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that totally makes sense. I definitely can see that and I agree, sometimes it's very tangible, like, like you said, the doctor, or like we went on vacation no, my boat, my dolls are going on vacation, or whatever. But sometimes they're like back to school right. Like, oh, my dolls are going to meet their new teacher. Like, ok, we see this parallel to life here, but sometimes it is more these existential like I don't know what to do, that more. These existential like I don't know what to do, or that's right.

Speaker 3:

Like the Barbie doesn't know what she wants to be when she grows up whatever it is Right, right, or just like the problem solving Right, that goes into so many different situations. So with a younger child that might look like this isn't fitting Right, like these pieces are not fitting together the way I want them to with an older child, you know, big, bigger kids, bigger problem, like you know big and new problems, right. But I think that you know the principle is the same and that these are these forums for them to work out all these different things, and then it also can be a forum for us to kind of support them through it. You know, even if that's just asking the question or doing the noticing oh, I noticed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I wonder what was going on, right. And then kind of opening the door to that.

Speaker 1:

Totally Okay. I do want to switch slightly and ask you a question. I feel like you see it on social media as if it's so obvious, as if we can all apply it, and it's like a no braineriner and you see, it and it's like oh my gosh, like whoever posts this, I hate you.

Speaker 1:

Uh, at least that's how I feel. Like posts about just let your kid be bored, and then it has all these things about how boredom is so great for you and like non-boredom is ruining the world and our children are robots and like all these sort of like apocalyptic things around boredom. But I find myself that like just the idea of like telling your kids tough you know what? I'm not gonna help you at all. Go be bored is not a super practical strategy or maybe it works like right, yay right and right and like you're like, okay, cool.

Speaker 3:

To the person who posted that. Like are you the one here with my kids?

Speaker 1:

then like 10 minutes, it's gonna work, but yeah, it's not like a strategy for the summer. Um, to just be like you know, in my day I walked uphill both ways to school in the snow and I was so bored. It's like that energy and you're like, ok, well, the world has changed. So yeah, you're like cool, cool. But what am I actually supposed to do? And kids, I think, are fairly independent. I actually have a whole podcast episode on how I pay them to babysit themselves in the summer, and we call it summer money.

Speaker 1:

And I love that independence and we do like schedules of like an hour together, an hour apart, an hour of screen time and then, yes, but it's like very scheduled, it's not like you can just do whatever you want all day. But then I pay them to have that independence and they're pretty good like they can go off for a full hour alone and a full hour together and not bother me for two to three hours, which is pretty decent for seven. But still I help them with like a schedule and sometimes we discuss like okay, for the hour together, what are y'all gonna plan? Like, okay, you're gonna do this or that, um, and, but they're not allowed to do screens unless it's something very specific. And I think it like permission like, for sometimes I'll allow an iPad for stop motion photography or something, because it's so creative and they're doing Lego scenes.

Speaker 3:

And it's collaborative.

Speaker 1:

It's not like passive screens, yes, but I personally don't feel like it's super feasible as a modern parent to just be like, well, we have three weeks left of summer, I haven't planned anything, there's no screens. Go be bored and change the world, like what's the real way to implement, because I understand the idea. It's like basically the same idea of, like you need creative play, but how do you do it more practically, in a way that doesn't make you want to start day drinking? You know, yes.

Speaker 3:

No, it's such a good question and it right and it's like it's so great. Look, this is. I struggle with this as someone who shares on social media, because I think there is so much out there that one is misleading, kind of like what you're describing.

Speaker 1:

Or when you see like children, just like magically running off for hours on end, like these are not, that's not, that's not like the exam, like that's not the rule, that's the exception kind of thing, dave, my son actually asked me this morning, before I was going to get on to record could he take a walkie talkie and go down to the lake, which is not super far, but in a city we're in Dallas, in the middle of Dallas.

Speaker 3:

And I was like no, you are not allowed to go.

Speaker 1:

No you can't Take the blocks with just a walkie-talkie, that's right. Because if you walkie-talkie me and say someone's grabbing me. What am I going to do?

Speaker 3:

about it. What can you do? We're way too, far, we're also in a different world. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1:

I know very few people that are like oh, I just let my kids wander the neighborhood for eight hours without checking in on them.

Speaker 3:

No, I think so. Look, some of this is going to look different at different ages Right and different stages in the membership. It's vital, and it's not only vital for our kids, it's also for us as adults. It's vital, and I think that when we are involved in our child's play, every time that they're playing, it actually does them a disservice, because our skill sets are not equal as adults. With our children's play skills right, so we automatically kind of change the shape of what they're doing when we're involved. Now, that's not to say, you know, play and creating together, that's also a great source of connection and joy. So I'm not going to, you know, discourage that. I think there's a place for it. It just we don't want it to be the only way that our child is playing right. So, all of that being said, it's important to prioritize these windows for our child to kind of come up with their own things and lead their own way. That being said, some children are very good at self-directing from a young age, some less so. A lot of that is personality and temperament driven, but it's also because playing independently is a skill and, like every other skill in development, it requires some adult support, Like, I think that there's a lot of you know messaging out there that suggests that our child can just naturally go off and do this. Some can, many cannot. They need some support getting started and building those skills, because it is skill-based and then as they get it, it becomes more and more child-led and less and less adult-involved. So, all that being said, that was like part of why I started my membership, because play prompts are a great way to help your child get started without you being directly involved in what they're doing, and it kind of gives them the inspiration they need to get going. And once we kind of integrate this into our child's routine, you'll start to notice that then they're going to start more and more to prompt themselves Right. So it's like in the beginning we're kind of getting them going and that could look like kind of what we decide.

Speaker 3:

You know we're describing before putting out certain materials in a certain place or putting out maybe things together that they're not used to seeing. If we have a child that's super into art, exploration and creating, maybe it's a large piece of mural paper versus a small piece with some assorted materials kind of put out in a unique way. We're kind of giving them the thing to get them going. It's open-ended enough that there's no right or wrong way for them to do it, and it kind of gets them started. And when you start integrating, that enough, it's very low lift on your part right?

Speaker 3:

I'm not talking about Pinterest, crazy crafting here. I'm talking about using stuff you have put out in a unique place, in a unique way, and if you struggle in that department and you're not kind of a naturally you know creative person in that regard, which like no, you know, that's not everyone's thing, that's why I kind of I've created that resource, because I think that not everyone's brain works like that. I'm like I'm a teacher, Like I, you know, so I kind of have those ideas flowing. Not everyone does, but it kind of gives you this place to start and what starts to then happen is our kids then start to now kind of internally be able to manage and prompt themselves to create their own thing. The other thing with like older child, I'd say, with like kids around you know your children's age that I love is this idea I just did this with a client and it's been working really well for them An idea jar you sit together and you kind of collaborate with like, let's come up with some really fun things that you can do on your own safely and let's put it in this jar.

Speaker 3:

You could do it like fold it up on little pieces of paper. You know, if your child is of age, that they're reading and can do that on their own. They can help you with writing it if that's a skill that they have at this point. If they're younger but you wanted to try this, like maybe an older preschooler that's not quite reading it you could do this with pictures right, and images as well. You could also do it. My client did this actually hers on popsicle sticks and her child pulls a popsicle stick out of the jar.

Speaker 3:

But the jar is a great way for when you have these moments of like I'm bored, I have nothing to play with, I have nothing to do, that you can be like oh my gosh, we have the idea jar and it's filled with all of those fun things that we came up with. I wonder which thing you're going to pick. I can't wait to see what you choose. Or you know, something like that or something else like that empowers them. That's like you are. You are so creative and capable and you have so many good ideas Remember I put a bunch of them in that jar.

Speaker 3:

I wonder what you might come up with.

Speaker 3:

Let's go see, Right. And then it's also like one. This is something that they can direct themselves. It's empowering to them because with you they're coming up with the ideas together. You can add and take away things seasonally or as their interests change.

Speaker 3:

But this is something that I feel like okay, now we actually have a method, so it's not just like a let them figure out their things.

Speaker 3:

No, this is like an actionable tip and strategy that we can use that's still child-led, that still puts the control in their hands, but gives like a shape and a direction both to the child and the adult. And I think that's important because, as we're building skills, we need to kind of give some assistance one and also two, sometimes, even when they have the skills, you just need like a jumpstart. Right, we all have those days I even have it as an adult when I'm like I don't know. I walk into the pantry and I'm really hungry for a snack. I know how to pick a snack, I know how to eat, but sometimes I'm overwhelmed with options or I just like I just can't come up with anything I want to eat in the moment. But if I had like a list of here's a bunch of snacks I don't know, this may be a poor example, but I'm like okay, well, yeah that like I love hummus, I'll go take some hummus out, oh that makes sense.

Speaker 3:

I think, like, I think, like, like, like, totally relatable, like I like I know dinners but yeah, like not in the mood for spaghetti, I don't feel like this, like, honestly, elizabeth, this is something that we utilize in my home with food also, where we have like our list of kind of our go to like super simple dinners and on the nights, like you can't come up with anything it's kind of like, ok, we have like some go to's of stuff you know it's not every recipe that we've ever made but it's kind of like you know, enough stuff and enough variety that, oh, I could probably throw that together because it's for the same reason, and I think that, like when we think about our kids play, like that, it helps us to be like, okay, that's enough of a shape and enough of a tangible thing, without it then falling on me to become like the cruise ship director which I think a lot of parents feel, especially in the summer. You know that they have to become and you don't.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I love that because it's so balanced and I think it is giving kids room to be human on.

Speaker 1:

Just like you're saying, some days I read a magazine and I get inspired that I'm going to make this great new summer recipe and it's going to have all these, you know, seasonal items and it's going to be fantastic.

Speaker 1:

And other days I just you know, they're at a blank sheet of paper when I'm in a grocery list and I'm like I look like, I act like I've never eaten before and it's like you have those skills but just nothing is calling you. And you're right, it's totally reasonable that kids would maybe have the same feelings around activity, because even I mean even just just for activities, I think adults like if you're planning a date night, there's times when you're like, oh, I just saw this thing and I want to go do it. And other times you're like I don't know what should we do, like I don't have any ideas. So, um, I think that's completely relatable and kind of what I'm hearing is that it's okay to add a structure and kind of grow the time that they're alone or independent over time. It's like this whole turkey approach that you just like send them off into a meadow, it's like not.

Speaker 3:

No, it's not. It's not realistic, especially with children that have not, are not used to doing this Right, which and that, and I mean that a couple of ways that could be like they're younger, they've never really played independently, or they're older and that's never been kind of something you've done and it's a new concept to them. But also I'm even thinking like our children thrive on predictability and routine, and one of the things that's challenging the summer that I think that people don't really think about is that we're not in our normal rhythm and routine and just because it's like supposed to be fun or like supposed to be exciting and it's supposed to be what you know, for many children this feels incredibly overwhelming and, you know, and scary.

Speaker 1:

I remember that from being in some shape, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right, totally, I was like this feels like it's.

Speaker 1:

So. The days felt really long, like when you have a newborn, and you're like when is my husband getting home?

Speaker 3:

oh my gosh yes, and that's like you know. Again, I part of when I started to kind of change the shape of my business was because, even with my background in child development and play, I was feeling some of that too. I think we all go through that as new parents and it's like okay, but now what? Like, what do I do? I know what I'm supposed to do when they're sleeping, right. Like there's a lot of information about sleeping and feeding, but there's not a lot of information on, like, what do I do all the other hours when they're awake?

Speaker 1:

And you know now what? How much tummy time can we survive? Yeah right.

Speaker 3:

Like okay, like we did that, now what? And you know, that was part of why I wanted to offer support in that area. I think that there's a lot of stuff out there that makes us believe that we're just our kids are just supposed to know how and we're just supposed to know how, and that's not true. Like anything else, like it's a skill and we need to kind of learn and they need to learn. So I think that giving some shape to it, giving them a kickstart, is not even just, like you know, an option. I think it's a necessity for the vast majority of children and that when you do, then you're going to start to see them be able to kind of take it and run with it.

Speaker 1:

But I think giving some shape is really important yeah, well, and so many kids spend so much of their life now in structured environments that it like it's. It's like if someone just told us like it's like if they pulled you out of your career and we're like, okay, go work. Like in an empty building, you'd be like what am I doing? Doing what I've like. Yeah, this is. And managers and project list. Like like what now?

Speaker 3:

What? Yeah, good, medium, right, because it gives them, it's still giving them the opportunity to lead. It's still giving them, you know that, freedom to explore. It's just giving them that little bit to get them started, and I think that I, honestly, I would even say every child, or most, need that, you know. So I think it's important.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and I know we've.

Speaker 1:

There's so much more we could talk about.

Speaker 1:

The one thing I did want to ask, cause I know it's just such a hot sort of topic, is that if you have a kid who's very screen focused I don't want to use the word dependent, maybe, but just like really crave that what is like one sort of quick tip that you could give a parent on how to maybe I don't know if the right word is but like wean them off that kind of screen focus and replace some screen time. I mean, again, I don't think we the right word is but like wean them off that kind of screen focus and replace some screen time. I mean, again, I don't think we want to go cold turkey and say your iPad's going in the trash, because then it feels so much like punishment, right, but how do we wean a kid off of asking for a device and maybe go into the idea of more play? And maybe go into the idea of more play, just even like? How would we take those first steps if we feel like, oh, all my kid ever wants is the screen?

Speaker 3:

Oh, gosh, yeah, and so many, so many families that I work with are going through this. So if you're hearing that and like that resonates, know that you are not alone. It seems like everyone. You know it's everyone. Honestly, I myself I'm like. I feel my addiction and my pull to screens and technology and I didn't even grow up in the generation that had it, you know, accessible to the same degree from when you feel your child is old enough to be like but you're on your phone a lot and you're like OK, well, I feel I know.

Speaker 3:

I know, I know I worry Honestly. I've been trying to be more conscious of it myself because I'm like, if I'm going to have that expectation as my daughter grows, what am I like question? I think you know some of this is going to depend on their age, right and kind of tailoring to your situation. But what I would say is one having an age appropriate discussion about the why, outside of the moment of asking. So I think this looks something like you know, I've been doing a lot of thinking and you know, kind of going into with your child why, why we're going to make this change, why this feels like the healthy choice for our family, why it's important to do this. And I think that there is a way to say this even with our preschool age children that they can understand and relate to. Again, this is about coming from a collaborative mindset so that this doesn't feel like a punishment and we're kind of talking about this for the well-being of our family together.

Speaker 3:

To your point, I think it's about, you know, like a weaning, like a starting slow. This isn't like a we're pulling the bandaid and screen time is disappearing. It's about kind of cutting back. So if you're finding, you know that you're kind of this is your go to X. You know amounts of time in the day that maybe we start with replacing one of those times and my recommendation would be for that to be if you have screen time in the morning, that's a good time to replace that with play. The effects of screens on our children's brains in the morning have been seen in many different areas in terms of how they can focus their sleep, their energy throughout the day. If they're going to school, you know their energy to learn and ability to kind of take in information is affected. So that's a really good place to start and I would be leaning into, you know, like I was saying with my, you know with my membership, and like the play prompts, but leaning into something to get them started. Because, again, if this is going to be a new thing and we're kind of coming off of this thing that they really love and enjoy, we want to have something really engaging and exciting to kind of spark them and get them going. So I think that's something else to think about utilizing not having the expectation that we're going to be able to go from a screen to then just totally self-direct, going to probably need some support and that could be in the form of something really exciting and engaging and kind of different than what they're used to doing to kind of help them along. I also think the idea jar that we talked about is great for something like this because, again, it's the novelty and it's kind of replacing something that feels very novel and exciting with something else that's novel, exciting but isn't a screen. So I think that can be a really helpful tool here. But again, you know, I think starting small, you know, starting with a pocket.

Speaker 3:

I also think it's important for the parent and this is a lot of what I work with families one-on-one about who are screen detoxing to kind of take inventory down when am I leaning into screens and why?

Speaker 3:

Right, because and I don't say that in a judgmental way I think it like gives us a lot of information about like our one, our bandwidth right, one or two like what are the times of day that are really difficult and why are they difficult? And typically, when someone is leaning into more screens, it's because it feels like it's like the only way to keep their child safely occupied, for them to get something else done or for them to get time back for themselves. So I think having information about that is helpful, because then we can kind of figure out okay, this is why this is happening, and then we can work backwards. I also think it gives you information about different types of screens. So, like you know, a tablet and phone versus a TV, different types of programs or games have different effects on our children's brains and behavior. And I think when we kind of take inventory we kind of learn about that, Like maybe this show it's not that this show is bad, it's that this show is not great for them at this time of day. Right.

Speaker 3:

Or yeah Right, like you know, certain things are just like too much stimulation at certain points. Um, sometimes, if something your child watches, something that tends to give them a little bit of anxiety like I know for my daughter um shows with like rescues and things- like that at her age or kind of she like, oh my, my gosh, like it winds her up.

Speaker 3:

These are not good things for her to be watching close to bedtime, right. So some of these things are more obvious than others. Sometimes we don't even realize it till we pull back, but I would also recommend taking a look at that. I think that gives you a lot of information and sometimes it's like, oh, maybe it's not the amount of screen time that's so bad, but you know, or having an effect, but it's more when they're watching certain things. Maybe it's about having a slower paced show, right. So there's a lot of things to unpack. I hope that kind of answers the question. It's kind of a complex subject, but I think that's a good place to start.

Speaker 1:

No, that totally makes sense, and I think what I'm hearing is that there is nuance and it's it's a lot about tuning into what's working for your family. What's not working for your family, maybe? Each individual child too is, at different ages, different personalities, and I mean every look.

Speaker 3:

that's like true in parenting, I think, across all areas right, which is why the sort of like you know, whitewashing of like this is what you do right is a little bit dangerous. Because I think that like this is what you do is a little bit dangerous. Because I think that, like it is such an individualized thing. Every child is unique, every child's stimulation, tolerance is different, their learning style is different and I think it's important to kind of have an individualized approach because what is not working for someone might work really well for someone else. And while we have guidelines and we have information and that's important you also have to look at your family's unique situation and kind of figure out what works for you.

Speaker 1:

Right and kind of to your point. There's a different emotional, just impact to like cuddling and having a family Christmas movie night on the couch than there is to just being on a phone alone, like in a shopping cart or something.

Speaker 3:

That's right, not all scouting time is created equal and you know and look, that's true also in terms of right, the pace of programming, whether or not something is interactive or not, and whether we're co-watching or not. And I'm not here to say you always have to do that. But I also think there's a difference to your point between you sit down together and you watch something and you're kind of talking about what you're noticing or you're debriefing about it after, versus you're applying the lessons and like, okay, we're going to potty train and like I can't remember the potty one.

Speaker 1:

It's like stop and go right away or something. Like, yeah, you have to go potty. Yeah, go right away. There you go. Oh, it's right. Like are we using it as a tool? Right, that's so different than just mindless scrolling for any of us, that's right. That feels very balanced and relatable. That has been very amazing, so helpful. I think it brings both tangible strategies and peace of mind that all of us are just managing day by day. Balance is a constant thing. We're all looking for Different seasons, summer, school ages, even our own workloads. Like we as parents have more bandwidth certain times? Yes, I know for sure we are. I would not say that we are a screen focused family like overall, but I definitely see myself leaning more into screen when I'm super tired and I feel like just don't have the time.

Speaker 1:

Like yeah let's all watch a movie together.

Speaker 3:

And now like no, it's so true, and I think that like we have to also think about that with screen time. Like we're very low. I introduced screens late, we're a very low screen family. It's not like a very present thing in our family culture right now with my daughter, but I think there's definitely a time for it. There are times that you lean into it more. Certainly. You know if someone's sick when you're traveling. You know, like I mean, there's so many different circumstances. But I also think to your point like I sometimes, as an adult, after my daughter goes to sleep, need to like binge watch a trashy show's like how I decompress, I like needa moment. Sometimes our kids I'm not recommending like your child goes watch Real Housewives necessarily they're selling sunset here, yeah, like sometimes.

Speaker 3:

So they need that decompression too and I think again it's all about kind of awareness and situational. You, you know understanding and you know for us, I know, like a big screen time is after we've had kind of the whole day and I'm getting ready. Getting dinner prepared and we're not quite in mealtime yet is usually like a point that she is done, she's exhausted from a day of activities. It's not so close to bedtime that it's kind of affecting that I have something I need to do. So this for us is like a great optimal time that we both kind of need it, right. I think families can kind of look and figure out when those times are for them and that also having the flexibility to know sometimes it might be more than others, right.

Speaker 1:

And that it works better if they have. She's been on a screen all day. Then by the time you're cooking dinner, she like I'm over this, I don't even want the screen anymore that's right, and it backfires on everyone because you know they get tired. It's not like screens are. I mean they are kind of magical, but they're not foolproof. I mean I definitely know kids who are tired of screens because they're on them so much. You've had.

Speaker 3:

It's like anything else, like you have so much of it, it's like, okay, like I'm bored now, now what?

Speaker 3:

right, so it also, it doesn't always have its intended purpose either, which is why you want to think of it, I think, as a tool, the same way we utilize any other tool in parenting. It's not all bad. You know, I'm not gonna like be here, you know to be like, you know, it's just, it's a part of our lives and it can have a lot of benefits. Right, our children can have a lot of benefits. Right, our children can learn a lot of things. All of it just depends on how we utilize it For sure.

Speaker 1:

That's so good and, I think, very encouraging. So I did want to ask you what we ask every guest here, for a petite plaisir, and for anyone who is a new listener, a petite plaisir is French for a simple pleasure, because we're all about the idea that you can add small pleasures, small luxuries, small moments of joy to your life without having to face a total overhaul. So we'd love inspiration from you. What is a simple pleasure you're enjoying right now?

Speaker 3:

Oh my gosh. First of all, I love that question so much and I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves, especially when you're a busy parent, for, like you know, oh, I can't ever have self-care because I don't have enough time and like these little things can be a form of self-care. I love that. Right now, a big one has just been making an effort to go outside, um and like go for a walk listening to a podcast, um, that I haven't listened to before, which, for I like to vary it at this moment I've been listening to. I'm like a theater nerd at heart. I was a theater kid growing up, um, so I've been listening to a lot of Broadway podcast network.

Speaker 3:

And I mean I love it, and if you're into theater and musical theater I think you would too. But there's a musical podcast that I've been listening to that just basically like takes a lot of cult favorite musicals and kind of talks about the history of them and then kind of breaks them down song by song.

Speaker 1:

You're like gosh, I need for walks and listening.

Speaker 3:

I'll send it to you, but are they kid friendly? Listen to it like it totally could be kid friendly if your kid is especially your kid's age, if they're into that.

Speaker 1:

But my son made his musical debut as zazu in lion king. This I love that spring, so I'm officially I love that it's what's.

Speaker 3:

So I'm officially season mom. Yeah, I love that it's called. I just was looking. It's called a musical theater podcast and I've been listening to it and like geeking out on some of these shows that especially for me as a theater kid or like less known, and there's usually like a guest on who's either like an actor or a producer or a writer in the musical theater world and kind of them sharing their perspective and why that show is significant to them. But I've been loving it. So going for a walk and kind of geeking out on that, like shutting off everything else, and even if it's a couple of minutes, it's been really joyful for me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love this. Now I found something, see, this is why we do this. I found something Totally gonna check out. My kids are very into theater. We're not the sportiest family on the planet Not me either. We do love a creative project, so I will definitely be checking out and actually tying it back. We sometimes listen to podcasts or audibles or something while we do a more hands-on play thing, and it can add that little layer of new interest as well, like listen to the book while we build a marble track or something like that. It's a shared experience too. I think my kids like when I know the characters in some of their like long, like you know percy jackson or something yeah you know you're like there's 15 books in, like the total Percy series.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so it's like if they run 6000 pages of this or whatever, like they want to share it with someone and be like, oh my gosh, doing whatever you know. So that is something that we do. So I will have to add I love that. That'll be amazing and this was so helpful. You did mention a membership a couple of times. Where can people get connected with you and learn more?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so if you go to my website, wwwjillybeansnyccom, you can learn there more about my monthly membership as well as how we can work together one-on-one. I also have a free guide to independent play at any age with some of my favorite tips and strategies to support independent play, which you can also access there. So definitely check that out if that was something that resonated with you. And you can also find me on Instagram at JulieBeansNYC, where I share all kinds of play and parenting tips.

Speaker 1:

All right, that's perfect, and we will definitely put a direct link to that play guide in the show notes to keep it super easy for everyone. And that way, just go to the show notes, click on it and get ready to play. So thank you so much for coming. This was super helpful and I'm now inspired to finish out summer strong, make some fun, play memories before the kids head back to school.

Speaker 3:

I'm so happy to hear that. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for joining me today on Never Too Festive. I hope you are leaving feeling inspired and refreshed. If you've loved what you've heard, don't keep it to yourself. Share this podcast with a friend who could use a little extra sparkle in her life. And hey, while you're at it, why not leave a review on your favorite podcast platform? Your feedback helps us continue to grow and inspire more women like you have questions or feedback you want to share directly with me? Simply click the link in the show notes to send me a text. I'd love to hear from you. Until next time, remember, all we have is today, so let's choose to live our most fabulous, joyful life together.