Never Too Festive: Parenting with More Joy & Less Mom Guilt

35. Navigating Intimacy After Kids: Actionable Tips for Increasing Pleasure with Sex Expert Sofia Ashley

• Elizabeth Hambleton

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Ever wondered how to maintain a thriving intimate relationship amidst the whirlwind of parenting? Elizabeth Hambleton hosts an eye-opening conversation with intimacy coach Sofia Ashley, who shares her personal experiences and insights into sexual well-being. From understanding the profound effects of motherhood on libido to tackling stigmas around discussing sexual needs, this episode is packed with real talk on preventing relationship dissatisfaction and divorce through open communication.

Sofia and Elizabeth aren't here to tiptoe around the complexities of intimacy for parents. They address the societal taboos head-on, likening the journey of sexual intimacy to the trial and error of cooking new recipes. With practical advice and a focus on adaptability, they dispel age-related myths, affirming that pleasure is a lifelong journey that evolves as we do. A special focus is given to how major life transitions like parenthood redefine personal identity and sexuality, and the importance of nurturing both self and relationships through these changes.

Listeners are encouraged to embrace change and invest in their evolving sex lives. Through discussions around health issues like Hashimoto's and the importance of identifying both turn-ons and obstacles, the episode offers strategies to enhance intimacy. Techniques like scheduling intimate moments, maintaining a romantic simmer, and fostering communication are explored. The conversation wraps up with a focus on overcoming challenges, like faking satisfaction, by emphasizing honest dialogue and a supportive mindset to foster a more fulfilling relationship.

Connect with Sofia:

Sex After Kids Reset Roadmap:

Book a FREE 30 min call where I'll teach you how to plan a sex date you can actually get excited about even when you don’t have a lot of time or energy (before the end of December 2024.)

The Naked Sexy Funtimes Playbook Workshop: stocking stuffer for just $99 bucks. Create your pre-launch checklist and plan a party your libido wants to show up to with this guided two part workshop. 

Sex After Kids Quiz:  Find out your biggest libido block and get a customized 20 min mini date activity to help you get things in motion. Includes the May I Would You be Willing game in the results. 

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to another episode of Never Too Festive. I'm your host, elizabeth Hambleton. Since I know that people listening are moms and you may have littles with you, I did want to warn you at the top of this episode that this is a bit more of an adult topic. If you need clarification on that, just check the title in your phone before you let your kids listen with you. If not, you may have some questions to answer. So just think about that and, without further ado, we're going to dive into today's episode.

Speaker 1:

If you are someone like me who has a million things on your mind and even more on your to-do list, sometimes it's hard to find the time to prioritize your own sexual health and intimacy, and I know that's something that a lot of moms struggle with, and I'm so excited to have an intimacy expert with us today that we can dive into this topic. That doesn't really get a lot of discussion. Hey there, mama, and welcome to Never Too Festive, the podcast where we celebrate the extraordinary in everyday motherhood. I'm Elizabeth Hambleton, your host and fellow mom, on a mission to help you rediscover your sparkle, redefine your style and reclaim your sense of self in the midst of motherhood mayhem. Do you ever feel like you've lost touch with the stylish, confident woman you used to be before kids? Are you tired of living in yoga pants and feeling like you've gone from thriving to just surviving? Well, mama, it's time to reclaim joy, creativity and style, while embracing the fabulous mom you were meant to be. So grab your iced coffee and join me as we embark on a stylish adventure together, because here on Never Too Festive, there's no such thing as too much sparkle, too much flair or too much celebration. Get ready to shine bright and live your most fabulous, joyful life, because you deserve it. Welcome to the podcast, sophia. Thank you for having me All right.

Speaker 1:

Well, sophia, ashley is an intimacy coach for parents, which is something you may not have even known exists, and I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about how you got into this and what that even means. Totally so, I am somebody who has struggled with my sex life, my orgasm, my vagina, so to speak, for most of my life. So I got into sex coaching, like many people do, from just your own personal journey. The reason my company is called the Happy Vagina Project is because I basically spent my 20s at war with my vagina Says, experiencing a lot of painful sex, a lot of urinary tract infections, bacterial vaginosis, etc. Etc. Etc. And also just not finding the satisfaction that I want in the bedroom. I thought that orgasms were these like impossible, mystical things that were never going to be possible for me. And then I experienced my own sex coaching process and found out the opposite was true and that most of that came from not knowing my own body and being in an adversarial relationship with my body. So instead of listening to her and her needs, I was constantly arguing with her about why she was not cooperating with me.

Speaker 1:

So, fast forward a couple of years and I had a couple of kiddos, as well as a stepson. So I've got a 13, 6 and 3 year old in my house right now, and my libido went through various iterations after each of those children entered my home, entered my home, and I just became really fascinated with sex after kids in particular, because there are such huge identity shifts that happen in particular for moms that really affect our libido in ways we sometimes don't realize. There are particular relationship dynamics that change after a children enters our home in terms of like how we distribute child care and chores and things like that with our partner and different like scripts that come up about how we're both supposed to behave that can affect our sex drive, and then there's all kinds of like physiological and emotional stuff that's happening. So there's a unique storm of factors affecting our sex lives after kids and I just became really obsessed with that, and my whole mission in life is to help mamas and papas and parents have a way better sex, not only because it helps them to thrive as individuals and in their relationships, but also because one of the most common reasons for divorce is sexual dissatisfaction in relationships, and to me that is a preventable thing. If that's the only reason we're splitting up, we could have done something about it, and so I feel like I'm in the business of keeping families together when that's the right thing to do and supporting people to just live their best lives to do, and supporting people to just live their best lives.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, wow, that's a crazy sort of idea to me that people would be that dissatisfied that it would lead to divorce, but I guess it's partly to something that, like you, don't talk. I think that that stigma about not talking about it, like money and sex are two things that even like pretty good friends, I think a lot of times don't talk about and do you feel like that's true? Like when people come to you, is it the first time that they've ever been really honest about, maybe, what they need or what they're not getting or what they are getting or I don't know all those things? So most of the time when I ask people how long they've been thinking about this, it's years, and when I ask them what they've done, it's nothing or ignore the problem. Or maybe they've read a book and if they've done anything, it's like potentially seen a couple's counselor and so a couple of things are happening there, right, like I think the divorce piece is, um, you know, first of all it can lead to like affairs and things like that where people just go seek that need elsewhere because we've given up in our relationship. But also it can lead to that divorce that happens like after your kids leave the house because 20 years, 30 years of like not feeling desired by someone or desirable, has an impact.

Speaker 1:

Right, it's a slow erosion to the integrity of our relationship and what I'm all about is like there are seasons in our sex life, just like there are seasons in our parenting, and there are times where it's not the top priority but we get into the habit of letting it go so long that then it's the habit not to, and then it does hit a point where it's like almost too hard to come back. And so this is why I like to work with parents kind of in that like one to 10 year old phase where it is challenging in that phase and the default is to just let it go and wait for the day when it's possible again. And I'm kind of like a big advocate for I'm not your sex coach. That's like have a 5 million orgasms and touch the sky. Like I'm your sex coach. That's like let's have a practical, realistic amount of regular naked sexy fun times through the very chaotic hard amount of regular naked sexy fun times through the very chaotic hard times of having kids, so that when we have a little bit more breathing room we're not starting from negative 10 and we can actually easily pick up our sex life and get to those yummy, super spiritual touch the sky phases right.

Speaker 1:

And talking about it is super challenging for people and that's because it's we've got all kinds of shame around it. We've got all kinds of taboo around it. It's very vulnerable, it feels very risky and it feels very scary because we don't know how to talk about it in ways that are productive. So we default to, like blaming our partner. You never want it. Well, you don't have magic hands, well, you know, you know, like just this blaming of people not being good at sex, and I almost like to argue that, like, 95% of us are mediocre in bed and we all have to kind of take this posture of like there's way more to learn to please our partners and to please ourselves.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, like what? Like who taught you anything? Like I mean it's. Yeah, I would say most of us are. I mean, I have no idea this is completely my thoughts but, like, I would think most of us don't even have a clear picture of what a quote unquote norm is, and that it's so shaped by, like media and whatever books or movies or whatever that you read, because that's the only place that you see people engaging in intimacy, and so I think that could really shape your perceptions or expectations around it in ways that maybe you don't even realize, and that your partner might have a totally different set, or your friend or your I don't know whoever.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so we all have these scripts running, whether it's like women don't masturbate or men are just horn dogs who want, you know, pussy all the time. So there's like you know women are frigid and they never want sex, right, right, we have a lot of negative perspectives around, like libido, and a lot of stereotypes around what people want and don't want, when really we're each our own unique mix of things, as well as this expectation that sex happens with no communication, right, it's spontaneous. I just look at you, I'm horny, I smash your face to your face, we rip each other's clothes off. Two minutes later we're both panting and lying in a pile and sex doesn't really look like that, and good sex looks nothing like that. So we don't have any kind of role model or picture in our head for what an amazing sexual session looks like.

Speaker 1:

Our sex ed was all focused around how to not have babies and how to not get STIs, so most of us don't know anything about the anatomy of arousal, all the different erogenous zones in the genitals, how long it takes to warm things up and all the fun ways we can play, because no one ever said sex is a pleasurable, yummy, delicious thing. We sometimes have sex to make babies, but most of the time we have sex because it feels good and our bodies were designed to feel good. So we have no map to how to like operate our machines or like no manuals, and yet we expect ourselves to be five star sex, gods Right, and I constantly relate this to like. Lately I've been trying to cook a little bit more and I tried to make some like breaded potatoes, and I'm following a new recipe and the first time I made them they were like terrible, and I didn't put enough oil on them and so you could taste the flour and the kids were just like what is this, mom? And I have since tried the recipe three, four or five more times, because each time I made it I observed what happened. I tried something else the next time and now I can whip out some breaded potatoes without even cracking a recipe book, because I gave myself the opportunity to experiment a little bit, and we don't give ourselves that freedom when it comes to sex. Yeah for sure. And I think it's interesting that we have so many ideas even about age Like. I'm approaching 40. I'll turn 40 next year and I guess, because I am getting to sort of like a milestone birthday.

Speaker 1:

I've noticed all of the ways that people talk about intimacy in sort of what quote-unquote middle age and that like romance books and stuff. That's all like people in their 20s, maybe early 30s, but after that it's like your like steamy days are done and then even so. I was watching a movie on Netflix the other day while I was on my Peloton and the main characters are in probably they're supposed to be their early 30s. There's, um, the those characters parents are probably I don't know, I'm not great with age, but like, say, they're in their mid-60s and two of them are having an affair. And one of the characters in the 30s was like why are you having an affair? You're old, you don't even have sex anymore, and it's like those kinds of characteristics. And I heard someone the other day talking about someone we knew in real life and they're like, oh, they're in their 50s, I don't even think they sleep together anymore. Isn't that what marriage always becomes?

Speaker 1:

There's like these, especially if you're married, that your sex would peak in your early years of marriage and then just like dwindle to absolute nothing, as if that's inevitable, okay, or inevitable Like why would you even fight it? It's like wrinkles, yeah, or that you would have to have something like an affair that's like spicier, but that you wouldn't continue to have rewarding intimacy with your spouse. So I'd love to hear your perspective on that, because I actually hear that a lot now. I just turned 40, like two weeks ago. Like the narratives are so strong, like sexless marriages are inevitable, low libido after kids is inevitable and normal. You just won't desire each other anymore and like that's OK, right, and so much of what we want to challenge here is you know, when I first was going on this journey in my 20s, when it wasn't really about the kids, it was just this notion, in particular for women.

Speaker 1:

Like the older I get, the more I see how the vagina, my vagina, is like the center of my being right, like in the like physically, in the sense that it controls my sex hormones, my cycle, which means it controls my mood, it controls how I show up in the world. It is we talk about it being like the canary in the coal mine, like it's. It's that fifth vital sign for women in terms of like. How your period and your cycle is doing and how your vagina is doing tells you so much about your overall health. And yet it's this thing that we just like lock up in a little box and shove it in the closet and feel like we never have to talk to it, or we can just talk to it twice a year or take it out and force it to do some things it's not really into, and that that's like somehow okay, you know, and what started this whole journey for me was reading a book by Naomi Klein called Vagina, a New Biography, which was all about how, like, as women or vagina owners, like your vagina is actually like the seat of your power, right.

Speaker 1:

And if we were having amazing orgasms all the time, we'd be running the world, because it does cool things to our brains and how we see the world and like basically, it's where all of our superpowers come from, and so the patriarchy has been like we don't like those superpowers, so we're going to encourage women to just like lock that up in the little box and toss it away. And, in particular, I think when we talk about like witches or, you know, if you get into like crones and like older women, we continue to have a lot of power there, right. So one perspective is like why am I, ok, locking up this one part of myself and just chopping off this arm and pretending I like never had that arm in the first place. How was that like an okay thing and be like, why are we okay with that? Like I want to be having great sex into my 80s, whatever that looks like for me at that time. I want to be connecting with my partner in those ways and I think that people who are having great sex which we don't have role models for, like I interviewed a woman for my recent Sex After Kids Summit who's in her 60s.

Speaker 1:

She's been married for 43 years. She's the most in love with her partner she's ever been. In fact, the early three decades of their marriage was really hard. They're having the best sex they've ever had. She had a huge renaissance in her 40s because she finally decided to like talk to her vagina and go on an exploration and like figure out her pleasure. And I think that's what we have to look forward to as women, where we can enter that like give no fucks era.

Speaker 1:

And I've also talked to a lot of women through menopause where, like there are parts where your libido goes down, goes down, but then you know, like my mom was single in her 50s and joking that it was a terrible, cruel joke of nature where, like, men in their 50s are still dating young women to reproduce with and women in their 50s are like horny, confident, ready to go and like feeling at their sexual peak and they've got no one to do it with, which is crazy, right? Another talk that was awesome at the summit was um dan purcell from get your marriage on. He talked about the five phases of intimacy and how, um, really some of the best sex is yet to come. It's really in our 40s, 50s and 60s where we're more comfortable with our bodies. We give less of a hoot about all these things. We're through the crazy of child rearing that we get to relax into the third, fourth and fifth stages. So we're past the novelty of getting to know each other and creating norms. We're past kind of the lull or like maintenance sex phase. We're getting into like exploring new and novel things with people because there's a all crave and want that don't come from just handcuffs and lube. They come from deeply and vulnerably connecting with another human, and we have way more capacity for that in our older age. Human, and we have way more capacity for that in our older age.

Speaker 1:

So I would like to reframe that to say the best is yet to come, if we can make it through this crazy parenting stage and hold on to each other and there is only yumminess. I mean, I'll just share one story from this great book, which is this woman was like yeah, we used to have sex a couple of times a week and now we only have sex once a week. But the once a week sex that we have is that on Thursday night we meal prep and we cook meals for four days and we fill our fridge and then we make love Friday and Saturday and Sunday. So I was like I'll sign up for some of that in my 60s for sure. Yeah, I love that, because I mean, I think it's true that I think in every capacity of parenting it can feel like the season you're in is going to last forever, like that newborn phase feels like you will die with a bottle in your hand and like deprivation crushing your soul, like it just the light at the end of the tunnel feels far.

Speaker 1:

And then you know you get into the busyness of toddlers and like them going to real, quote-unquote real school feels like forever if you know you're in more of like a mother's day out and they're home with you like so much. And then the elementary is like, oh, I can't even imagine a kid in college, right, like each Like, each season has this sense of like oh my gosh, it'll be forever. And I think it's like to your point that we even if you had kids late, early, it doesn't really matter when you had them Like kids are really not. They feel like they're the bulk of your life and I mean that feels true for me today. Like it does feel like this is like the season, but really you have a lot of time like post or pre kids, both you know probably that like being your own person and that's important too. That's important too, and you don't want to like completely lose yourself to the hustle and whirlwind of parenting in these types of ways, because there is so much of your life that is independent of them, even if you love it and you're super invested in being a mom, and like it's what you do, and full time and like all the things they still will go to college eventually or move out or do whatever they're going to do, and like there's just so much time which I think people forget.

Speaker 1:

I mean it's the same as like investing in your sexuality, is first about investing in yourself and then it's about investing in your relationship, right, and I think part of the struggle we have is that the modern paradigm of parenting that we have, especially in the West, is built on this narrative, especially for women to just sacrifice everything for your children, to give them all of you, and we set ourselves up for absolute devastation the minute they start stepping away from us, which they naturally should, even in their teens. Like I've got a 13 old who mostly wants to spend time with his friends and spend time alone in his room, and so I maybe have like 10 minutes, if that, of conversation with him a day and if I didn't have little people. Like it's it's already freeing and terrifying, like how much time there is. And if you have obliterated your entire sense of self and completely let go of every piece of your relationship, it's just this void you're looking at Right, whereas if you've at least held on to a thread of that, there is an excitement of like, oh, what do we get to invent here? And the big thing I'm all about in this is like motherhood, parenthood is this huge transition and, bluntly, we've all mostly gotten away with pretty mediocre sex skills up until now.

Speaker 1:

Right, you didn't get much in sex ed. You started meeting people, making love. Maybe you've had one partner for your entire life, maybe you've had a few. You figured out a few things that have worked. There's maybe been a little bit of experimentation in that, but for the most part you like found something that worked and then you had kids and this is a massive overhaul of like your identity, how you feel in your body. If your body's changed a ton, especially as, like the birthing person and those mediocre sex skills like don't work when you've hit a challenge like that, just like they won't work if you get into a car accident and you're a quadriplegic or you get a concussion or you hit a massive patch of like grief because your parents have passed away.

Speaker 1:

Like any massive life transition is going to put pressure on your sexuality because of fatigue, hormones, depression, mood, sleep, like all that stuff, stress, and so this is I mean I think a lot of people just think of it negatively as like I've had kids, my sex life is over and I'm like I've had kids and I have the opportunity now to learn the skills I always should have learned to uplevel my sex life, which will help me to uplevel my sex life through whatever life throws at me. And basically, I am in control of my libido, I'm in control of my body, I'm in control of my sex life and I get to recreate what that looks like over and over and over again, just like I get to recreate who I am, and just like I'm not in one marriage, I'm going to be in like 20 marriages through my whole life with my partner, as we like evolve and shift, you know. And a perfect example of that is like I met my stepson. He moved into my house and I was used to having sex like multiple times a day with partners that didn't have children, like almost every morning before we got up, almost every night. And then I was like, oh, I'm in married with kids, sex land, even though I didn't have a kid, but I welcomed a kid into my home and so that looked, you know. We had to negotiate what that looked like, and then I had my first baby and then we decided that maintenance sex was. We were both just like things get rough between us if we haven't had sex in like a month. So we're not going for quality here. Somebody's just going to tap somebody on the shoulder and be like. It's been 30 nights and that worked great for us.

Speaker 1:

After my first daughter, after my son, I had Hashimoto's, which is a hypothyroidism disorder which kills your libido, and I had, beyond, no interest in sex. And that's a perfect example where no libido wasn't a normal thing. It was actually a sign from my body that something was happening. It was a symptom of something, and if I had just accepted it as like normal or what's supposed to happen, I might have not caught what was going on for me. And maintenance sex was not doing it for me anymore. I needed less frequent but more exciting and novel and interesting sex in order to stay interested, because maintenance sex was having the opposite effect where I didn't enjoy it. So then I didn't. I was like I just don't want any of this, and so that's a clear example of like. I had three different kids. I had three different versions of my sex life and what I enjoyed and what I needed after each of those things. And now I have a kid who's three, which means I'm sleeping through the night more often than not, and my husband and I are like entering a new phase where there's a little bit more time and freedom to invest and explore in things, right? So if there's one thing people can take away from this, it's like your sex life is not a static thing that looks one way for your whole life. It's a thing that's evolving with you and your partner and you get to choose what that looks like.

Speaker 1:

If you give it a little bit of intention and thought yeah, I love that, because I think it is true that probably the average person gets stuck in kind of I mean a rut I guess we'll call it that of like you do the same things and like, right, do we make the effort to be more interesting or change anything, or just kind of like it's so on autopilot, I think, for most people, which I would be curious, what is like for people listening that are thinking like, yeah, okay, like I probably could use some improvement here. What is like an actionable thing that, like the average person could be thinking or doing, or like one of the top I don't know if it's a mistake, but like, maybe mindset shifts that you like clients to have. They would just something someone's listening to think like is this me, I don't know, maybe, maybe not. Like what like could we be doing today? Or tonight, maybe? Yeah, so I mean it's cliche. It's like the longer I'm a sex coach, the more I'm like, oh my God, all this stuff is so cliche, but it's, it's what works, right. Like every time, I'm like candles and massage. People be like it's so cliche and I'm like, yeah, but you know why it works? It's because it soothes your nervous system and helps you to transition from being a crazy busy parent to landing in the moment with your partner. So it could be other things, but those things work really well to do that for a lot of people.

Speaker 1:

So scheduling sex, but not exactly sex, is something that people have a ton of resistance to. And they have resistance to it because, partially, it doesn't look like the sex in the movie, so it feels like it's not spontaneous, it's not sexy. Or people, in particular the lower libido partner, get stressed out by the thought of scheduled sex because they're like OK, so we're going to choose Saturday at 10 and the babysitter is going to come and take the kids to the park, but then my libido has to show up on Saturday at 10. And how can I guarantee that that's going to be the case a week from now, right, so there's two pieces to kind of debunk there. One is libidos are not 95% of the time spontaneous. They're actually responsive, which means we see something that kind of gets us in the mood and then we decide, like, do I want to kind of ramp that up or open into it? And then, if we do, we enter into a cycle where it kind of like the flame builds and if we don't, we dampen it. And we actually have two systems. This is called the dual control model. Emily Nagoski popularized it, but we have two systems in our body right One that's scanning all the time for gas pedals or fuel for the fire and one that's scanning all the time for breaks or reasons to shut things down.

Speaker 1:

So one of the simplest things that people can do is to understand what fuels your fire and what is a break, and, in particular, most people who are struggling with libido and most moms after kids have a break problem. We have five million breaks and three things that are lighting the fire. That feels relatable. I mean, I think a lot of people listening could be like my to-do list is just a list of breaks. Yeah, and your breaks can be things like you don't feel sexy anymore, or you're struggling with your body image. It could be resentment with your partner because you're fighting about laundry and there's just too many chores and you're doing most of them. It could just be the overwhelm of life and stress. It could be the fact that you're barely sleeping. So it can be physical stuff and emotional stuff and like relational stuff, stuff and like relational stuff.

Speaker 1:

But an easy thing to do is just, if you're in the pattern where your partner makes a move and you shut them down regularly, can you either, next time that happens, hit the pause button and observe what little like brain gremlins I call them are talking to you, and sometimes there's 20. And so you just have to invite yourself to like right. What are all the reasons my brain has said no, right, because what comes out of your mouth is I have a headache or not tonight. But there's 20 other little things that have gone up in your mind, and if you can just put them on paper and actually look at them, sometimes there are really easy fixes to those things that your body's just not getting creative about or wanting to allow right, and so that might mean putting a lock on the door so your kids can't walk in on you, or scheduling sex at a time where the kids are going to be at the house and you can fully relax.

Speaker 1:

Or getting your partner to like love you up and say lots of really great things about your body, or wearing something that makes you feel really good, so that you just feel that little bit sexier. Right? And this is key to like understanding how to make a sex date work, which is that when we schedule a time, you don't have to expect your libido to spontaneously show up, because she's not like that. She's responsive, which means you can create a party that she's interested in coming to and you don't force her to come to that party. And the biggest part in all of this is to keep the pressure off, and that's why I call it scheduling naked, sexy, fun times, not sex, because we're going to schedule a time to get naked and have fun with no pressure, and maybe sex will happen and maybe it won't, but nine times out of ten, if we do the no pressure part right, it will happen.

Speaker 1:

And it's just about thinking carefully through what I call like a pre-launch checklist, right? So astronauts, they like, have their whole little checklist of everything they need to go to do to get to liftoff. So for you, three questions people can ask themselves is what makes me feel relaxed, what makes me feel present and what makes me feel connected to my partner? And you could come up with like one thing for each of those. So maybe a bath makes you feel relaxed, maybe taking five deep breaths makes you feel present, and maybe watching stupid cat videos or playing a board game or playing strip poker or something makes you feel connected to your partner. And so you just agree to do those three things first and then see if people's bodies are ready to play and have a good time together. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. And I want to build on that connection thing because in my experience with like friends and even just all kinds of people I don't want anyone specifically, I'm talking about them, but like people I have known in my life.

Speaker 1:

So real wide umbrella here is that there's sort of life and maybe your partner is good at life, like he, I don't know, whatever does. Oil changes in your car regularly and he mows the lawn and you know he's reliable if he says he's gonna pick up your kid. Your kid is not usually left stranded like. So he like he's good, he's like. You know, checking the boxes on life would not be like sort of co-parenting and maybe just like adulting, right, takes the trash out cool, that's life. That's not exactly sexy in, any more than it is sexy when I vacuum, right, it's just like life. So I feel like there's that category and then there's actual sex.

Speaker 1:

But I think for a lot of couples, especially married ones, it's the bridge of like romance or connection, but for actual sex that gets lost, like the dating and the kind of like flirting and stuff. That's the part that I think a lot of people feel like oh, like I already know you, I know I'm gonna get some, I can drop this out completely, but then I think that's what a lot of people have trouble going from like I'm vacuuming my floor to like 10 minutes later I'm having sex. But there's no romance to it. Yeah, in like the ongoing relationships, like how do people either communicate to their partner that they need more of that or that, like that's what's maybe missing. For people like the ramp up and you know women are like famous for needing a little more ramp up time. I think a lot of us just want a little like romance, yeah, prior, so I don't know what are your tips on that.

Speaker 1:

So a really great analogy to use there is the concept of a boiling pot of water, and this is something that like people can use to describe this need to their partner. So if we imagine that the boiling pot of water is like, full, raging, ready to go sexy, and your day-to-day life is cold water, asking your partner to show up at 11 pm after a bedtime, battle anda, huge day, and just like doing all the dishes and whatever, and going from cold water to a full boil as quickly as most of us expect it to happen is a non-starter, right. So two things that you can do for sure are one is this concept of simmering right, which is the romance is like how do you add things into your relationship so that there's a simmer all day, so that when you do get to 11 o'clock, if you decide that's something that you're interested in, it's easier to go from a simmer to a boil? And simmering can look like, again, kind of corny things, but like sending each other sexy text messages, um, you know, even like starting a little like um, fantasy, like, uh, sexy storytelling via email, right, where you're like telling this story back and forth throughout the day. I'm having more images of like people's work email there. But yeah, catching them, I know right. But still, you can also simmer yourself, and I think this is an important thing, especially for lower libido people. And this is what I think of as the pre-launch checklist is like how do I simmer myself? So, for me, I could listen to an erotic audio story while I'm doing my dishes in my earpods. If I had a little inkling like, hmm, I want to be ready later tonight. Or if I know that a bath and this particular robe that I have that's really soft, makes me feel good. And if I like shave my legs and rub myself with lotion top to bottom, that just like primes me Great Right. So part of this that's just like primes me Great Right. So part of this is like knowing what primes you, and it doesn't have to be like right, like I'm hearing you say, like we don't have to rely on the other person a hundred percent. Yeah, like it's okay for your marriage If reading a certain book or like whatever, like honestly, like gets you in the mood.

Speaker 1:

My partner and I went through what we called a fling, because I started watching Bridgerton by accident. I didn't know what it was. I thought it was like a feminist period drama. And I walked right into this romance novel and we watched the second season together and like, all of a sudden we went from like no sex to like three, four times in a week and like spontaneous, and the kids are watching a show. Let's do it. Like it totally greased the wheels and he knew that. So he would kind of like initiate the the Bridgerton watching or whatever.

Speaker 1:

But also I knew that you know, and so I think it's like your pre-launch checklist, whatever it is that like paves the way for you. You want your partner to know it. So if your partner wants to get laid like, absolutely, these are like the keys to the kingdom, right, right. Grabbing your partner's ass and boob while she's washing dishes, saying like, hey, you want to get horny tonight, is not a way to get your partner, who's got a maxed out nervous system, to be like, yeah, maybe I could do that, right, but like lovingly rubbing her shoulders and saying, hey, I would love to maybe get down tonight. Is there something that you would love to do if I? You know, put the kids to bed and you had 20 minutes to yourself that would get you there. How can I facilitate that? Awesome, send this episode to your husband, because that's what I want him to do. Your partner can take the lead. If he knows what those keys are, to take the initiative of setting that up for you and you also.

Speaker 1:

You know like a big part of this journey for me is that, like my partner, we went through a phase where he was initiating a lot. Uh, that was basically the only way we were having sex, and then I also made him do all the work, and that led to a phase of me feeling pretty guilty about it, and so I've been challenging myself lately to notice that for me, the signal that I want sex isn't like this full body I'm so horny right now Like stuff that either was from when I was younger or new in my relationship. It's literally a small little thought where I'm like the kids are in bed and we have a window and maybe I could be into this. So if I tune into that way more subtle invitation from my body and then I go, how do I get my body from a zero to a 10? How do I get my body out of mommy mode and into sexy mode? I have my go-to list now and it can feel mechanical at first to implement those lists, but now my partner and I do it very seamlessly and so I know if I have that little thought, I just I put on a certain song, I put on a certain thing, whatever.

Speaker 1:

I have my things that I do and I get myself there, and then the the thanks and the gratitude that I get from my partner that I put the effort in to get myself there so that I could initiate him, is huge for our relationship. And and I mean we could do a whole other episode on like how we put people in boxes, but like the big box that we put our partners in is that they just want to bone us and like get their dick wet, for lack of a better expression, and like they're looking for connection from us, right, and we don't. I'm not advocating that we force ourselves at all, but to think that my body doesn't want it. I never feel like wet or, you know, spicy between my legs. Therefore I I don't ever have to do this again, um or it is not true.

Speaker 1:

Like you have the ability to decide. I want to get myself to that place. I'm going to figure out how to get myself to that place. I can be in charge of this and I can have amazing sex as a result, and I've been absolutely doing with that with myself, yeah, and I think for a lot of people it's like a little bit of a flywheel too, like kids. I know I don't mean this may be too honest, but like I had c-sections, I had two c-sections. So, like your, something doesn't feel great after two c-sections and like the idea of putting pressure on it and it's it's not great.

Speaker 1:

And then, yeah, that worry about physical pain I think can get in your head. Anyone who's had c-sections maybe can relate to this. And I mean, I'm sure vaginal birth never had a vaginal birth as its own things and, like you probably have the same issues of oh my gosh, is this gonna like physically hurt? And and then it's like when you have, you sort of force it and you have quote unquote, not great sex because you're like not ready and like you can't relax and like or it does hurt and you're like, oh my gosh, then it creates this resistance I think of like, oh, I don't want to try again, this is going to be bad and then. But the opposite can also be true that if we put in a little bit of the pre-work like you're talking about, and then you enjoy it more than I think it, you can get your mind more open to okay, well, maybe the next time would actually be fun.

Speaker 1:

And sometimes I think too, it's just like recognizing you're in a cycle and like how do I fix this? Like is it just, I maybe need more time after a C-section and that's just what I need, and like there you go, that's how humanity got here, guys. So, just being honest, okay, I need more time. Or, in this stage, I need you know, like you said, like I need you know, like you said, like I need this in this stage, and the more you can know yourself. And I think, try to express that to your partner without blame on them or like it's not like their fault, but I'm just maybe not in that spot, which I think is hard for moms too. So two things there you've hit the nail on the head in terms of like what I call the negative feedback loop and the positive feedback loop.

Speaker 1:

Right, so we don't have to go from no sex or shitty sex to amazing sex, like overnight. What we're trying to do is reverse that cycle of I forced myself, so it wasn't that great, and it's not even your brain, it's your body, your vagina goes. It was not good last time. I'm going to armor up, I'm going to clamp up to brace myself for this not so good time, even if it came with a loving partner and like all the best intentions Right. And so then you're armored up, your muscles are tense, there's no blood flow All the opposite of the things that we need for a good orgasm and a pleasurable experience are in play, and then we just recreate those experiences and all we need is and this is why I say naked, sexy, fun times.

Speaker 1:

All we need is a fun, positive naked together experience. Um, to change the tide. And a lot of this comes down to slowing things down so that, um, like, one of the ways you can take pressure off with your partner is to play something called the may I, would you be willing? Game and I can share that as a freebie in the show notes for you or whatever. But so often what will happen is our bodies go into freeze and so my partner makes a move and my body is like. Half of me is like I could want to and half of me is like F no. And I'm frozen in this like do I bother, do I not, mode? And it's because my body is trying to say yes to like full penetration all the way, and that's too much for me to say yes to from where I'm at. But I can say yes to you kissing and nuzzling my neck, and then maybe I can say yes to you taking my shirt off and tracing your hands down my belly right. So if I can find smaller things to say yes to where my body knows, I'm saying yes to this specific thing and it does not mean I'm saying yes to anything else.

Speaker 1:

There's a level of trust that we build with our body. That's basically consent, right A, with ourselves and then with our partner. And so you could just do a time like, especially if you're really it's been a long time or you're struggling or you've had a lot of pain it's to just do something where you like get naked, with no expectation that there's any penetration. You play this, may I, would you be willing? Game where you just play with, like may I do this to you? And your body goes yeah, I'm willing to do that, but only that thing. And then you do the thing and then you see what else your body's up to and into. And if you just did that and maybe even the first time you deliberately said we will not transition into sex after, we're just going to do that, we're going to set a timer for like 15 minutes and just do that, that would be enough for your body to go. I can get naked, I can communicate my needs, people will hear my needs and people will respect my needs, and that can be enough to start to flip the loop in the opposite direction.

Speaker 1:

And the other thing that you touched on there, which is so huge, is like we get so in our heads about any of our feedback being taken as like criticism. And this stems from, like we're all supposed to be, these five star sex gods, right. So any criticism is a hit on our ability as a lover our sex gods right. So any criticism is a hit on our ability as a lover. And so one of the biggest mindset shifts you can make as a team and what I love is like, after kids, even if it's been a while, you have this beautiful like excuse or runway which is to just say everything has changed because of the kids, like I had a C-section or I had a vaginal delivery. So my sensations are different, what I experienced is different, my fears are different, and we have to map this new landscape together and just pretend we both know nothing and start again. So this is not about you being a good lover or a bad lover. This is about us basically having no map anymore and we need to create the map together, and being a good lover means knowing how to recreate the map over and over and over again. And simple things there are really like just start learning together.

Speaker 1:

Watch some TED Talks about sex and talk about what you're learning. Watch Emily Nagoski's TED Talk on the dual control model. Listen to podcasts like this and just like learn and talk about sex in theory and then start to think about what are things that you want to try, or what are some things that you want to do again that you used to, or what are some things that you want more of. And all of those things are in the realm of positive. So we're not talking about what we want our partner to stop or how sucky they are. We're just saying here's what I'd love to try, here's what I'd like more of, here's what I'd like to start doing again and you've given yourself a whole menu of options to experiment with without feeling like you've pointed the finger and blamed somebody for being terrible in bed, right, yeah, no, I know, I think there is a lot of pressure, especially like if you came from any sort of like Christian background.

Speaker 1:

I was raised in a, I would say, a fairly conservative home and there was definitely this like do not sleep with anyone until you get married was definitely the narrative, and then, like magically, in the hours between you, cut your cake and you like go to your hotel room you have learned what you're doing and will please someone for 50 years, and it's like, wow, how does that happen? It's like a real switch. So I think it's true that, like we just so many people have never even tried, and it's like there's that vulnerability around, like maybe you tried something and then you didn't love it, and you have to be able to say, hey, we kind of tried that once, but it wasn't really my deal. Can we please not do that again? Because I think there's also like this stigma of like you're gonna try it and then you have to love it or else you're, you know, shutting them down or something. But we have to set up experiments, like experimentation time, where just think of it as trying the recipe. You may hate the recipe, maybe because you didn't cook it well and so you need to try it again, and maybe because you just don't like that recipe.

Speaker 1:

And one of my biggest things around feedback during sex is like your partner is not in your body. They do not have your skin, they do not have your eyes, they do not have your nose, they don't smell the world or feel the world or see the world the same as you, and so unless you give them feedback on what it feels like in your body when they do certain things to it, they have no clue. It's against at best. So how are they going to get any better unless you're like, yeah, I really like firm pinching or I really like soft, gentle touches. Um, and that's another way to experiment together is just like, what kind of touch does my body actually like? You know, sometimes people this is a new concept to me, but people talk about keeping a sex journal and debriefing is part of like.

Speaker 1:

I talk about this cycle of sex or naked, sexy fun times where so many of us, after kids, are flailing at the initiation stage. So somebody is making bids and we're just not getting very far with that and it's either because we're communicating poorly, we've got weird mindsets about sex after kids, or we're not tending to our nervous systems. And then we've got the kind of transition phase, whether it's the romance piece or just getting from I want to have sex with you to actual sex, and so a lot of us get stuck in our heads. During those phase we feel like we're taking too long, like a lot of those negative brain gremlins come up there During sex itself. We struggle to communicate what we need. We struggle to communicate what we need, we struggle to know what we want. We're judging ourselves all those things, and then almost none of us do.

Speaker 1:

The last phase, which is debriefing, which is to just share like what was really yummy for you today, what was something you don't want me to ever do again, like to learn from what happened and that's what's been so amazing for my partner and I lately is like we've been watching the little videos from my summit, experimenting with them with no pressure or expectation, and then observing, and we have learned things like my scar tissue from my deliveries is more sensitive in my luteal phase of my cycle, so I get a little bit more squirmy and like tender during the second half of my cycle, and that changes how we have sex, what positions we use and what I need to like have a good time. That's a massive discovery for us in terms of me having a good time and my partner having a good time Right. Or my partner the other day was like huh, I think we need, you know, we do the part where, like, he goes down on me and like I have my orgasm and then we transition to like penetration, and he was like I think we need to take a longer break in between those two things and find a different way to transition so that things during the penetration are a better experience for both of us. Again, that's a massive learning and so much. And to take that perspective, then I think, yeah, really good, like I think it's a lot of like. So does that work? Okay, cool, like you know, that's like real specific things that you can change or ideate on. It's not just like good or bad, check the box kind of overall. Yeah, so let's notice like there was, was there a specific move that your partner did? Was there a specific sensation that you enjoyed? Was there something they said that you really spiced you up? Was there something they did in the pre-launch checklist transition phase that, like, really worked for you? Today, noticing those things gives you like there's clues all around you if you're willing to pay attention to them.

Speaker 1:

Well, and do you feel, like some of the women or like clients who worked with you, like feel a pressure to sort of I don't know what the right word is like sort of respond to everything and then you're leaving sort of false breadcrumbs, because maybe you didn't really like it but you wanted to act like it was fine, like I feel like that could be common for women too. Totally, I mean, we so many of us fake it and I get it, and like this is the part where we just end up suffering in silence. You know, I've been there in different relationships where you have sex and you roll over and kind of almost curl up into a little ball and like the loneliness and like disconnection you feel from that person, because you feel so unseen because you've just lied and they haven't called you on it, because they probably know maybe, but they haven't called. You know no one's getting brave in that conversation. Yeah, is not getting us anywhere, you know. And so sometimes it's just about learning together and staying in the positive, just about learning together and staying in the positive.

Speaker 1:

And sometimes it's about and maybe with support and maybe not just getting really real with your partner. Like things have changed for me. I haven't been enjoying sex that much. It's been easier to lie about it, but I don't want to do that anymore because it hurts me and it hurts you. Like your partner wants to please you he really does, and if he thinks he's pleasing you and he's not, that is so unfair. It's so unfair. It's a form of what we call cruel kindness, because really you think you're being kind by not hurting their feelings, but you're really just trying to protect your own feelings because you're too afraid of having a conversation. Yeah, it's probably okay to be like, hey, you know we've been doing well, but like tonight was off for me, or like I couldn't get out of my head completely. And well, you know, whatever it is, like the Christmas dinner coming, or like in-laws or whatever, whoever it is, you know, my person is like these family members, like whatever it is that people you know, sort of these universal holiday things, especially. Like sometimes it's just like we don't always win the war.

Speaker 1:

I think of getting out of our heads and that like just accepting that we're human and today, like this really bad meeting at work like was just couldn't get out of it and or you know, you know pressure to do this or that, and knowing like it's OK to have one day, and it's not about them, it's not about you, it's just like it's just who you are in this one moment. Not every time needs to be phenomenal, not every time needs to be about us. Like two weeks ago we had a session that ended up being really great for me, but I could tell it was kind of off for my partner, even though he finished, and so the other night I felt that inkling that I was kind of into it, but I really put the emphasis on him and like I I had a fine time, but I didn't put the focus on like it being about me or me having the best orgasm ever and he had a fantastic time and I felt great that I got to offer that to him because of how often he has offered that to me. And I also think, like what you're speaking to is we just struggle so hard to advocate for our needs and like the amount of times we struggle alone, because you know, I've had times where I'm really struggling with the transition phase. So we're like we're naked, naked, we're in bed and my nervous system is just like fuck this. So, like it's too cold or it's too hot, it's too bright, the music's off, the lighting sucks, like nothing is working for my body and I can struggle alone with that because I want this like seamless experience where no one talks, because that's how it happens in the movies, right, or I can say time out.

Speaker 1:

This song that normally works for me is not working for me today. Can we change the music? Great, this lighting is really bothering me. Could we just do this, this and this to change the situation? Great, okay, I need to be wearing something different so that I can be a little bit warmer. Great, unpause, let little bit warmer. Right, unpause, let's try again. Right, and part of it is I have to get clear enough on like what's bothering me, but sometimes you just have to hit the pause button and go.

Speaker 1:

I'm having a really hard time getting into this. Can I just tune in for a minute on what I might need? You know, and maybe it's. I'm having a hard time getting into this guy at a bad meeting. I need to go meditate for five minutes or take a walk or dance it off or whatever, right, and come back to this. And maybe it's. I can't get this meeting out of my head and this isn't going to work for me tonight because I'm just not going to get there, right? Yeah, so there's that level of self-awareness or that level of tuning into your partner. You don't seem like you're getting into this. What's what? Are you having a hard time? Yeah, what can we do?

Speaker 1:

So communication, like the four ingredients for me are communication before, during and after. Nervous system tending to the nervous system before, during and after, like through that whole process. System tending to the nervous system before, during and after, like through that whole process. Relationship to pleasure is a big one and that overlaps with nervous system, which is like how much you feel like you deserve pleasure and what capacity your body has to relax into it and accept it. And the other piece is mindset and all those brain gremlins and like negative perspectives that are holding you back and working on all four of those things, through all four of those phases right, initiation, transition, actual sexy time and debrief is what helps us to slowly start to get to a better place. And what's lovely is something like the may I would you be willing? Game, which I'll share, allows you to practice all of those things all at the same time. To practice all of those things all at the same time and integrate all of those skills all at the same time. Yeah, and for anyone who's listening, who's like, oh my gosh, I probably need this, but, like whoa, that four felt like a lot.

Speaker 1:

How do you like? How does working with you help them? Is it more like you with just the woman? Is it you with a couple? Is it either, or Like if they were getting support from you, what would that look like? So it can definitely be just one person, although I'm transitioning more to working with couples, because sex is a team sport and so, even if one person is struggling more than the other, I feel like you will make more progress if both partners are involved in figuring out how to troubleshoot for that person. So I do one-on-one coaching either with women or with couples, and I have a course that's just on how to plan a sex date that doesn't suck, and it walks you through a lot of the pieces that we've talked about today and actually guides you through. Like I have like a guided audio where you go on a we do the pre-launch checklist part together and I share the may I, would you be willing game and like we do a couple of things to get you ready and then you go and transition on your own. Um, and the last piece that I'm working on is a course that I'm going to launch next year.

Speaker 1:

That's really all about supporting people to get better at each of those four phases and improve each of those four pieces, just with self-study lessons, because I know people just need to do their own thing, but in very bite-sized ways for parents. So this is about, honestly, it's like pick one thing and just get better at that. So for me, right now, that one thing has been tuning into when it crosses my mind that I maybe could kind of want to have sex and implementing that pre-launch checklist for myself or asking my partner to, and that's the one thing I'm really focusing on right now. Maybe you want to focus on giving better feedback during sex and you just want to focus on sharing what's working for you and what you want more of those two things and you just want to focus on sharing what's working for you and what you want more of those two things, and you just are like every time we have sex I'm going to practice saying those two things. It's really just picking like one little habit, one little thing at a time that can create the biggest transitions over time for people. Well, I guess for anyone who's still looking for stocking stuffers for their husband because I know those are hard for me, I know they're hard for other people Then a sexy date could be the stocking stuffer he really enjoys and remembers. So yeah, we will link up all of your contact stuff in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

A lot about how having a healthy sex life and connecting with that is so much about mindset. It's about how you feel, it's about how you're showing up in the relationship and in your day. And that kind of brings us to our petite plaisir section. If you are a new listener, we ask every guest to share with us a petite plaisir, which is French for a simple or little pleasure, the idea being that we can all reclaim joy and happiness in small, bite-sized ways that don't take tons of money, tons of time, tons of availability, and that if we're intentional, we can do that, and I like to get inspiration from our guests on how they're adding purposeful moments of joy to their life. I love this concept and it is foundational to what I teach, because what we focus on grows and pleasure outside the bedroom helps us to sit with more pleasure in the bedroom.

Speaker 1:

I would say two of my favorites. One is like making myself a very fancy turmeric spiced latte at the end of the day and like reveling in every part of making it and sipping it and enjoying it. But the other one is I love me a good shower with a good set of shaved legs, with lotion top to bottom and just taking the time to smell like the really yummy lotion and to like feel how good it feels in my skin and to be very mindful in that experience instead of just slapping lotion on my face. If that makes sense, yeah, for sure. I think an everything shower is definitely something all of us can get behind, because it's so easy to just be like I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow and like but then you know, years, months, weeks go by and you're like I haven't really done a face mask or lotion or anything to take care of myself. Yeah, it's so true Like if you don't take care of yourself, it's hard to either take care of someone else or let them take care of you, and have that just the right mindset around that. So this has been so helpful. I love that.

Speaker 1:

It's a topic that a lot of people maybe don't feel comfortable bringing up, so a podcast is a great way to broach the topic without it feeling too scary. And for anyone who is wanting a little more support, we will have all the links in the show notes where you can connect. So thank you so much for coming. Thanks for having me. Thank you for joining me today on Never Too Festive. I hope you are leaving feeling inspired and refreshed. If you've loved what you've heard, don't keep it to yourself. Share this podcast with a friend who could use a little extra sparkle in her life. And hey, while you're at it, why not leave a review on your favorite podcast platform? Your feedback helps us continue to grow and inspire more women like you. Have questions or feedback you want to share directly with me? Simply click the link in the show notes to send me a text. I'd love to hear from you. Until next time, remember, all we have is today, so let's choose to live our most fabulous, joyful life together.