Ep. 15 | Building One Team: A Structural Approach to M&A Integration

Are you treating your M&A integration like a rigid building code or a dynamic leadership challenge?   

In this episode of AEC Unscripted: M&A Edition, host Jeff Adams, Director of M&A at Stambaugh Ness, sits down with Sandy Matthews, Director of Integration at Salas O’Brien. Sandy shares her unique journey from structural engineer at a 35-person firm to leading post-acquisition efforts for one of the most acquisitive firms in the AEC space. 

Sandy brings a refreshingly human perspective to a process often dominated by spreadsheets, explaining why true value creation happens at the intersections of alignment, empathy, and “One Team” collaboration.

This podcast discusses:

• The “E-Bike” Lesson: What a 14-year-old’s request for freedom taught Sandy about listening to the true “why” behind an acquired firm’s needs.
• The One-Team Vision: How to move beyond service pillars to create a cohesive environment where every partner firm is “icing on the cake.”
• The Power of the Pause: Knowing when to “rip the Band-Aid off” and when to hit the pause button on branding or ERP transitions to protect a firm’s unique niche.
• The Cultural Litmus Test: Why the “Dinner Test” remains the most accurate predictor of long-term partnership success.
• Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast: Applying Navy SEAL philosophy to ensure your internal team is ready to scale at the pace of modern M&A.

Whether you are a seller wondering how your legacy will be preserved or a buyer looking to build a scalable integration playbook, this conversation provides a practical roadmap for aligning hearts and minds after the deal closes.

 🔔 Don't miss out! Subscribe to AEC Unscripted: M&A Edition on your favorite podcast platform. Let's explore the M&A landscape, unlock growth potential, and achieve deal success. Ready to dive deeper? Let's go! 🤝💰 

Transcript

Intro and Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to AEC Unescripted M ⁇ A Edition, your go-to podcast for unfiltered conversations and expert analysis, brought to you by Stan Bonnet.

The Structural Engineer’s Perspective on M&A

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Welcome to AEC Unscripted. I'm your host, Jeff Adams, the Director of Mergers and Acquisitions at Stambon S. Today we're going to be exploring MA through the lens of a structural engineer turned MA integration leader. I'm delighted to have joining me for this episode, Sandy Matthews, the Director of Integration at Salas O'Brien. Sandy leads the firm's post-acquisition integration efforts, working at the intersection of people, processes, and technology to ensure deals deliver on their promise. With a front row seat to one of the most active acquirers in the AEC space, Sandy brings a practical perspective on what separates integrations that create value from those that simply stall out. Sandy, welcome to AEC Unscript.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Jeff, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here today and honored to have the opportunity to share what we do at Sallas O'Brien in our approach to integration and building a stronger team with each partnership. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Well, I'm sure our listeners are going to enjoy hearing what you have to say. You guys have a lot of experience doing MA, and there's a lot firms out there can learn from the experiences that you had. So before we dive into today's topic, Sandy, why don't you just tell the audience a little bit about yourself and Salas O'Brien?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Sure. I joined Sal Sobrien by way of merger in June of 2020. My organization, PPW Struckful Engineers out of Oakland, California, uh, merged with Sal Sobrien at that time. We were 35 people and we joined Salbine. It was about 600 people at that time. Um, it was a great opportunity for everyone. It was right in the middle of a pandemic, so there was a lot of change just on its own. It was a great opportunity for myself personally. I was looking to move out of the structural engineering field a bit and was more interested in growing our organization, finding opportunities to streamline our processes and help us work better as one organization. So when we joined Sallus O'Brien, we were the first standalone structural team. Soon after that, we brought on additional structural firms, and I had the opportunity to work across Sallus O'Brien to see what opportunities we had to really build a more cohesive structural team and lean on each other for resources. It was a great opportunity to get my feet wet in integration and see if could we be as a larger organization together. At the end of 2022, they created this role to lead integration. At that point, they realized that there was a need for somebody to take ownership and have a more of a programmatic approach to integration as we were really bringing more teams in and starting to actually work more as a unified organization through collaboration. And so I transitioned into this role, and it was a great fit for me personally, and I've really been honored to be able to build up this team and grow who we can be at Sallas O'Brien through mergers and acquisitions.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

I appreciate you sharing that. I can relate to your story similarly. I was with an engineering firm as a CFO, and we sold in 2019 to a private equity-backed platform firm who I then worked for for a couple of years before joining Stambon S to start up a mergers and acquisition practice. And just like you, I was looking for a change, right? Wanted to do something a little different, leverage the experiences that I've had, and use those in a useful way for others. And uh so I'm looking forward to digging into your story here a little bit and what you've learned and what you do currently. So, Sandy, before we start digging into things here, uh let me just ask you how do you define integration success in the AE industry?

Defining Integration Success: Aligning “Hearts and Minds”

SPEAKER_00 4:42

That's such an important question, and that's really where it all begins. We have to understand what success look like? What is our vision here? What are we all working towards together? Um, so when I transitioned into this role, that was really the first thing that we stepped back to say, what is success for Salsa Brian in integration? In the engineering world, it's really clear what your success looks like. It's a building that stands and you're providing it a clean and safe environment for the occupants. Now, as a structural engineer, I appreciated the building code that gave you a clear roadmap to get there and it had some boundaries, it was safe. Within integration, it's a little bit different. You need to understand what is that final vision for us. And it salves O'Brien, that is creating one team to leverage all of our partners to have collective success. It's not about the success of one piece, it's about the whole. And so we need to make sure that we're set up appropriately to let our teams collaborate and seamlessly work across opposites so that we can realize that vision and really build one team together. And so my job is really to help align hearts and minds and making the team feel like they are one moving forward. So retention, people are really important. It all starts with relationships. Yeah, building those relationships internally and making people feel like, man, we are better together. This is one strong cohesive team, is really where it starts.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Well, I know you mentioned to me before a people first approach that you take to MA. Nice buzzword, right? People, you hear that all the time. Every AE firm says they're people first. What does a people-first approach look like in practice?

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Great question. It really starts with developing a mutual understanding of our people and having a two-way communication and being able to understand while we're all working towards a combined vision and who we want to be together, we need to listen to each perspective. One thing that we've learned is we can all see the same vision, but see it slightly differently. So stepping back and putting yourself in the shoes of those team members coming into Salves O'Brien, what are they feeling? What are their thoughts and fears? And what do they see as success? And looking at our internal team, how does it impact our existing team? Is a new merger coming in? And then looking at our team, our support team, our functional work streams, how is this new team going to impact our processes and our systems and making sure that we really start to paint that

The “E-Bike” Lesson: Listening for the “Why”

SPEAKER_00 7:30

whole picture from all the different vantage points to really understand how this new team is going to impact the whole organization? So understanding the different perspectives really is where it starts. Um, I think the best analogy for a lot of what I do is being a parent. I draw a lot of parallels there with my children and our my son, I've got a 14-year-old boy, and he came to my husband and said, I want an e-bike. I need an e-bike.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

A beautiful and I needed one when we were that age, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:06

100%. I would have loved an e-bike. I would absolutely. So he put together this beautiful presentation, you know, pros, cons, everything, why he needed this e-bike. So my husband and I sat down and listened to him, and we were aligned. We are not getting anything e-bike. He is 14 years old. Street smarts, he's got lots of smarts, but street smarts is not one of them. And we knew that wasn't best for him. And so we listened. And at the end of the presentation, we were able to say, Gavin, I hear you here, here, and here. This is what you are looking for. You're looking for freedom. You're looking for being able to hang out with your friends whenever you want. We understand that. We feel that. Uh, but let's do this in a different way. Here's what we can do. I'm your personal Uber driver. When you are 16, you are gonna get a car. We want these same things for you, but here's how we're gonna go about it in a safe way because I can see the bigger picture of really what is better for him. And I think a lot of what we do here in MA is we lean on our best practices. You know, we understand that everyone has a different perspective and that they see really what they want, but we need to help them zoom out and see what really is best when we bring them into the organization that we can talk through together and see this is what we're trying to achieve together. Does this make sense if we go about it maybe in a different way? It really builds trust with our leaders and it helps to have that two-way discussion where we you can tell them, hey, best practices, this is our framework for integration. This is what we've learned. And let's try to help you get what you want, but within some of these parameters.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

That personal story that ties in so well to what you're doing. Listening is such a lost art. And the way you sat there and listened to your son, I thought you were gonna say you had to give in when it was all said and done. You know, I love, I mean, you just blew me away where you came from with that. And you listened to him, you heard what he said, and it wasn't that you dismissed it. You said, no, actually, you're telling me something different that you don't even realize what you're telling me.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yeah, how important that is. Something else you said a while ago that I just want to highlight here, and that is not only do you listen to the acquired firm's employees, but you're listening to your own employees as well. Because change for both sides, right? It impacts both firms. And I think that's just such an important aspect that you highlighted there and all that. Well, hey, let's get personal about your experience. Uh you mentioned you were acquired by Salas O'Brien in 2020. Recognizing you work with Salas O'Brien now, what would you say they got right in integrating your team back in 2020?

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Well, first of all, Sallas O'Brien really prides ourselves on merging with strong companies. We find partners that really stand alone won't be successful. That everything we bring is a combined team is just icing on the cake. So the model is to don't break what's working. It's we want to make sure that they keep going. And culture is a huge part of who we are as a people first organization.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

The way we say in the South is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

So love it. Yes, exactly. And so what they really did right and still do right is trusting those existing leaders that they are the leaders of our local team. They're going to maintain that leadership presence in their decision making and you be that face or that organ, that local team in their clients. And so there was no real change as far as leadership, approach, relationships. Our culture is still the same. And what was beautiful was it aligned so well with the rest of Salas O'Brien. So when we got together with the other teens, we looked around and went, wow, they're just like us. This is like our family. It was really incredible. And I'm proud to say that's still the case today. Um, I had the honor of being with one of our most recent mergers, Rock Brook, in the New Jersey area last week. And we went to dinner with them and had leadership from three other previous mergers that were there. Sitting around the table and listening to the laughter and friendship that was already there was incredible. It's just such like-minded people. And and one of the leaders there, Mike Watcher, came up to me afterwards and said, Oh my gosh, I don't know how we did this. I feel like we've been friends forever. This was our first dinner out, but it's just it's magic, really, when you bring the people together and just it happens organically and naturally because we are similar people. So it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Well, that's awesome. What is four years now that you've been in your role? Um leading the integrations and setting the standard for how Sallas O'Brien is integrating firms. What you do today, how is that shaped by your experience of what you went through back in the middle of the year?

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Sure,

The “One Team” Vantage Point (Empathy in Leadership)

SPEAKER_00 13:24

it definitely gives me the perspectives of being a team member. I was an engineer going through that. I didn't choose to join Sallas O'Brien. I was with the small company. I liked the small company feel. So uh, you know, joining a large Yeah. And so uh appreciating that, really starting with empathy and understanding again, what do those team members locally feel? What does the leadership locally feel? What are some of their threats that they see, and really listening to them and finding what do you want out of this? And what does success look like for all of us? My vantage point has changed here. Again, being able to understand how a new merger impacts our existing team and our operations is so important because we want one team. We have to be ready to pivot and be agile enough that when we have a 500-person firm join us tomorrow, we're ready, that we can be there to adjust and look through the lens of every different person on our team to make sure that we are thoughtfully bringing people together, keeping everyone engaged and feeling like they're part of something there and want to be with us.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yeah. This might be a little difficult question for you to answer because you sound like you guys are doing it right, but perhaps you run across other things. Are there certain areas where you would say other acquirers maybe misjudge the acquired firm's perspective when they're giving that outside in look at that target phone? Any areas you think they're missing?

SPEAKER_00 15:00

There's a lot of unknown and uncertainty for sure. And what I really appreciate about our approach before the close is our leadership says, hey, here's a list of the people who joined Salbrian. Call any of them. We're not going to script what needs to be said. Ask them any question. What's the good, the bad, the ugly? And you know, we have that much trust in our team that they have been successful with Salis O'Brien and they see this as a positive. Just understanding or having that transparency is really important to be able to go in and open the door and say, go in, let's take a look, and you can tell for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

You mentioned the good, bad, and the ugly. Have you had a time where the ugly is what came out and showed itself?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

It happens. I mean, integration is hard and we're not trying to pretend like it's not. We pride ourselves on continuous improvement. So we really take a collaborative approach as best we can when things go wrong and say, hey, let's regroup. We're here to help. We're all on the same team. And you have that trust built in with the basic person, the relationship there.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

And it means so much when things go hard because you do have to pivot. You have to step back and say, what's the real impact here? Where can we adjust? Because there is no one size fits all. And so absolutely we hit different bumps along the way. We're there to support it immediately. And don't let it fester. I think that's an important thing is being able to listen so that way you can see it coming, okay? Reading the room before it gets to be a big, big deal.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

No, that's great. Appreciate you sharing that. You mentioned to me before when we were having a conversation that you always start with why.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

How do you extract the why from the acquired firm's leadership? You mentioned listening a while ago, right? That's a key part of that. But tell me a little bit more about that. How do you understand the why of the target firm?

SPEAKER_00 17:04

That's actually the easiest part. All you do is simply ask. So we start at the very beginning before close, and I meet with the leadership and say, hey, tell me about your people. Tell me about your expected pain rates. Where are the sensitivities? What should we know? And then why did you join Sallas O'Brien? What do you see as success? And I usually say it in hey, we can circle back on this later and what you can think about it. But I don't think there's been a call that they haven't immediately rattled off 10 reasons why they wanted to join Salice O'Brien. They have that vision and they're excited about it. So let them talk. And then again, you listen. And it's really amazing to hear. And the thing that I think is the best part of it, each leader that's joined us is it's always about their people. They want more opportunities for their team members. They want to grow together. So it's again very much aligned with our culture. Once they start talking, there's a lot of energy that's created, and everyone is there to participate.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

How much time do you spend really understanding the target firm before day one? And at day one, I define as hey, the day after closing, right? That first day after closing is day one.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

How much time do you spend before that getting to the world from as much as I can, really, but have to appreciate the balance. I mean, they're still working through due diligence. Due diligence is um weird hard. Um, I think I had heard somebody refer to it almost like a colonoscopy. I mean, it is really not pleasant. And we get that, but it's important and it helps. So we really lean on our corporate development team to help provide insights to us of what they've learned. Um, our team, we have a bi-weekly meeting with our whole integration team and our corp dep team. And the first half of that meeting is going through what's coming, and everyone can ask questions, get some insights, and so really trying to do what we can behind the scene to glean who they are. Um, there's certainly a list of items. We want to know what systems they have, what their functional work stream team members look like. So we're ready to help support them. So much of it happens, though, once you're shoulder to shoulder, really understanding the people after close. As much as we can do to understand where there may be something unique about this team. Do they have a strong system in place that we might not have? What are those things that we need to think a little bit differently on this is really what we're trying to identify before close. So we're just ready to ask the right questions.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah. No, when you're thinking about why are we doing this deal, why are we putting it together? I'm sure you've run across times where the corporate level synergies and how we're putting this together and we'll integrate it doesn't really align with what the local team is thinking, right? And they kind of you know have different timelines or different maybe they don't even believe what you're saying is realistic in the timeline you play it out. Um how do you handle that?

The Tailored Playbook: Strategic Pauses and System Fits

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Good question. We have uh framework for integration that's our best practices. We define milestones and have our playbook. Um but it's a tailored playbook. I think that's our starting point. And with each close or each merger, we look at it and say, okay, what is different here? Where do we need to adjust? And what's the appetite uh for change with the local leadership? Some say rip the band-aid off, we're ready to go. Others say, well, let us take time. And what's really funny is we've had some that have said, well, we need to take time. We are a 10-person company, we don't have the bandwidth, we are not ready. And it goes back to they don't know what they don't know. We see the big picture in best practices. And actually, for some of those smaller teams, the sooner we can get in there to support them, the easier it is for them because there's less transition time. And so then they can pass, we didn't want to do the finance work in all the back of office um tasks. They were actually really happy to let go. We can actually bring those in sooner. They can start realizing the success with Salsa Brian sooner. And so for some of those teams, if talking to them through of this is the benefit actually of going a little faster here. If they're okay with that, then we do that. I meet with them weekly to pick the temperature, see how are things going, where do we need to adjust. We're very flexible. We want to do what's right and what makes sense. We don't want to do that at the expense of our team members. And so it's very agile and we just work to lean on what we know is best. In that framework through all of it.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

You mentioned your standardized playbook that you have, but then you're tailoring each integration according to the need. You mentioned that you're meeting weekly and you're asking what's going right, what's not going right. Outside of that, is tailoring a reactive process, or is there a proactive aspect to that? And if so, how?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, it starts proactive. We learn enough about the T that we know where there's some unique pieces. So we set out based on what we find best practices, you know, hey, we're gonna take you through our email migration by month four, by month six, we want you in our ERP. And then we talk to the leaders and say, okay, do we have this? We talk to our internal team. What is the impact to our finance team with bringing them in our system? Are there concerns being we need to bring them in sooner? So proactively work through that plan right at close, right? Right when we're developing our integration plan with the understanding that this is flexible and we may just learn new things as we go together. And we're growing very quickly. We may have another merger come in that we need to shift resources slightly just to make sure that we're doing what's right for the overall company, too. So there's a bit of reaction just in the nature of so to speak, that we are merging, just staying flexible and transparent and honest that hey, this is why I'm best to follow this course and doing it collaboratively with the leadership and the rest of the team is really important.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Well, I'm sure there's times when you want to integrate things quickly in order to get maybe some quick wins.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

You know, how do you determine when to try to push for a quick win to build momentum versus let's just leave it alone for now? How do we make those decisions?

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Good question. If we have a unified approach, that's typically when we know that we have a good process in place, good systems, that they will be able to integrate easily and seamlessly. And it'll be changed in how they do it, but we're not going to disrupt the functionality of what they're doing. That's a case that we typically say, hey, this makes sense. Um, and it's getting buy-in from the local leadership and the larger team that, hey, this is a win for us. We should move forward with this. We're really cautious on other areas where we know we don't have a unified approach. What would happen if we switch this team's ERP system? We have a, for example, a forensic, their work isn't as project-based as our engineering work. And so they have a system that works well for them. It was built for them. It didn't make sense to transition them to try to fit a square peg into a round hole. And so we said, you know what, let's pause. Maybe as we mature as an organization, that we will have a unified approach down the road that makes sense, but it doesn't for today. So let's pause and we'll come back to this.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

I was gonna ask you if you've ever had to pause or reset an integration. If so, what what triggered that?

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Yeah, absolutely. It really depends on kind of the impact to the people and the team members and being able to produce the work. Um, it goes back to listening, regularly checking in. How are we doing? A lot of times it's simple adjustments that we can make that once you understand the root cause of the issue, and again, it's hey, I hear you that absolutely we are aligned and we want to make sure you can still function. But what if we bring into more resources to support you here or there? Or maybe we chuck it into you know, different steps of integration so we can do it over time a little bit smoother.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Do you have a specific example though, where you're rolling along and all of a sudden you hit a wall of a white man, you're like, oh, what just happened? You know?

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Have you got an example of that where that happened?

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Sure. Absolutely. I think one that we're working through right now is back to our forensic team, Peg, that merged with us. And they are different. They have an education piece to it. They people get certified, they get their Heg certification. So when we look at rebranding, how does that impact Peg if they take on this Alice O'Brien name? Really thinking through is it worth it? Is it okay to have a different brand? So I think that we were going down the path and still maybe likely going down the path of rebranding, but just pausing right now to think through what are all the implications of this? Should we do some and not all of it? What does that look like? And our answer right now is to pause and just come back next year and reevaluate and say, okay, does this make sense? We stay flexible and go back to what are we, what's our vision? Are we still going to be able to be one team? And does this really matter in the big picture? Or just pause it.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Well, you know, that whole branding thing, that's something sellers are always concerned about, right? I mean, yeah, well, I say always concerned. Sometimes I'll have a seller just say, Hey, I don't care, they can change my name.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

There's others who are like, Well, hey, we've had the same a long time. It means something to our community. We want to have it. There's others that are like, our name has a great reputation out there in the industry and on this specific niche that we focus on, and it's gonna hurt any buyer if they try to get rid of it. And it sounds kind of that that might be the word you're facing right now. Is what impact is this gonna have on customer and on future pipeline of work? So it's great that you hit the pause button on that and just kind of say, hey, listen, let's make sure we give some great thought and consideration to this before we make any changes, right? Goes back to it isn't broke, don't fix it, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

So hey, let's talk a minute about culture. Everyone says culture matters. I mean, I even here at Stand By Ness, I experienced that myself, as I said, when I went through change and learning firsthand how culture works. And we've tried to put together a questionnaire survey, if you will, that we could give to the employees of both the buyer and seller. But in the context of MA, that's rather difficult because of the confidential nature of it all. So, you know, sometimes it ends up just being the owner of the selling firm that's involved in it versus all the employees of the seller. But it's very important. How do you diagnose cultural alignment before and after closing?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

That

Cultural Due Diligence: Looking for Growth-Minded Leaders

SPEAKER_00 28:45

is so important. And we are blessed to have the leadership of Darren Anderson. He has a gift that not many have of being able to read people. And his approach really is he's not going in there to ask them about all their revenue and all the financial splits get into the week there. His litmus test is do I want to take this person, their spouse to dinner? How are they as people? How do they treat their team members and people around them? Everybody. If you can pass that test, then you're in. I mean, that really is where it all starts, is with the leadership. We want strong leaders that are people first, because that is our culture. And if you're lying there, everything else falls into place.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Well, what are some of the early warning signs that two firms are culturally missile on?

SPEAKER_00 29:38

For us, at least, if you're not looking for that next step for your team members, like a succession frame, how can we bring opportunities to our team? And you're not looking through that lens, I think that's a red flag. If they're just looking for an exit strategy for themselves, that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for a leader that wants to stay and be invested in continuing their local growth. I mean, that's why it's so important that we don't change that local culture. And so if we can see that they are looking out for their people, then it's an alignment. If they're not, then great company, sure, and good opportunities for them, but just probably not the best fit for us.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Yeah. And culture's hard to change, right? That's why the fit's so important. I mean, you said earlier, you started out working for a smaller firm structure. You had no interest at the time in working for a firm the size of Sallas O'Brien. But when you got in there, you realized, wait a minute, there it feels the same. We already feel like a team, and it's because of the light mind and cultural alignment. It was just a size differential, right? Yeah, there's probably a few more processes in place and all, but those are palatable when the day-to-day environment's the same.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Absolutely. Yes. Yes. And it makes people more open to the change because they see that those quick wins and those opportunities to collaborate, and it tells a story as to why we should do it. We want to be able to work together so we can collaborate and see more opportunities, win more work together. And it just organically starts to happen once you step back and say this is what we've seen for success within our organization already. And people are excited for the most part.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Well, you mentioned before communication is key. What does good communication look like during integration?

SPEAKER_00 31:39

The genuine desire to have mutual understanding, being transparent and listening to learn is really important. And disarming team members and stepping back and saying, let's just talk through this proactively making sure that you give people the chance to voice their concerns. They're right. Most every concern that somebody brings to me, I get it. Like it is a concern. It's not really that they're trying to derail anything. It's just they're looking out for their people. They're looking out for how they do their work. And rightfully so, being able to help step back and educate each other on our different perspectives is so important because once you understand where somebody else is coming from, it's a lot easier to let disarm and want to work together because again, we have the same vision. We both want our teeth to be successful. Your success is my success, and my success is your success. And so having that open communication to be able to say, hey, these are my pain points. These are my pain points. What can we do together to maybe smooth things out is critical for that.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

I was thinking that this takes us back to the personal story about your son, right? I mean, and you said communication is listening. And I think so often we think of communication and integration time of let me communicate to the target firm everything we're doing and how it's happening. And the there's a part of that, right? That has to take place. You have to explain to them what to expect. But the listening part is probably what gets lost on so many. Quite honestly, it probably gets lost because most of us are all uncomfortable with change. And when we're sitting in your shoes and we're having to hear other people complain about change, yeah. It kind of makes us feel a little uncomfortable with ourselves, right? Like, okay, am I doing something wrong? What's the deal? Right. But being able to be comfortable in your own shoes and recognize, hey, this isn't personal. This is what is personal. It's their personal lives, right? And you're trying to help them understand their why.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

A hundred percent. And this is the first time they've gone through a merger, absolutely. I mean, they don't know what to expect. They're looking at us to help them and bring them along the way. Those challenges and concerns they have are valid. I mean, that is the first time they are seeing that they are stepping back and letting go control a little bit. And we have to build that trust and understand what are your must-haves are? What is it that makes you tick locally? We can help make sure we don't break and that their team sees this as a win is really important.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

That's great. You know, Sandy, how do you measure whether an integration is actually working?

Measuring Momentum & The Navy SEAL Philosophy

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Listening to the people, go back to listening. So feedback from the team members, really, and from our larger team as well, getting that feedback is critical. We send out a communication to our new teams, we call it the merger minute that has a point survey that we, you know, how are things going? Fantastic business as usual. Or I have concerns, and we really listen to that and help have that help guide us to when we need to help support the local team more. Are these teams working together? I think that if they are winning work and seeking out to build relationships outside of their local team, that's a huge win. That says a lot about that integration and that it's going well to me. We see some teams that it takes more time, and that's okay. Everyone does their journey here. So trying to make sure that we're staying with them and helping to change hearts and minds that we are one organization here, and here's who we can be is really important through all of it.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Are there any areas that you would say some of your competition, experienced acquirers out there might still be getting it wrong when it comes to integration?

SPEAKER_00 35:51

I think every company is different and they have a different approach. That by design, some of their companies do have standalone, don't change much and don't collaborate because maybe they're different pillars of services or whatever. That doesn't make sense. So I think the important thing is knowing what is your vision, and back to your original question, what's your definition of success? And I think that we all have maybe different definitions of success. I personally love our definition of success. I believe in building one company and trying to leverage every team's strengths and build that community within. That's important. Not that other teams aren't doing that by any means, but it's just what is your reason? Well, who do you want to be? That's how you build all of your integration grids. How integrated do you want to be based on who you want to be?

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Well, that sounds like a win-win approach that Sallas O'Brien takes there. So, two questions as we wrap up. One, I want to ask you with respect to sellers, what should they be evaluating about a buyer's integration approach?

SPEAKER_00 36:59

What is the impact to your team members going to be? Look at how successful this company has been in previous acquisitions and mergers, and what is the plan for your team members? Are you aligned with that? Do they have that people first approach? What questions are they asking you? Are they asking you about your people? Or is it just the finances and all that, which are important too? We want to look understand all that, but just look understand what are those questions that the company is asking you. And does that align with what you would hope if you were to seek out a partner? Is that what you would ask first?

SPEAKER_01 37:37

All right. For buyers, flipping the strip here. What capabilities do buyers need to build before becoming an active acquirer?

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Oh man, I think we've invested a lot of time and energy into building up an integration team. We really saw the value in having a smooth process to really bring our team members in so we can, you know, at the speed that we are merging with teams. We need to know what we're doing. We need to have a playbook and a plan in place. Really appreciate the Navy SEAL's quote: slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Really taking that time to invest in your internal team and making sure that you've got a plan in place really is important. Again, define success. What are we working towards? Because that is what you use as your guiding light. And everything is built based on that. And so really just investing in the people there at your integration team and making sure that they work well together. It's a cohesive team that they see the integration success not just as one ERP migration, it is the whole experience for the team and how each change impacts has ripple effects throughout the organization. So they are looking at that as well.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Well, you guys have done over 20 deals since January 2024. So highly acquisitive. You have to be doing a lot of things right to do that many deals. So much appreciate you, Sandy, for uh just sharing your insights and the Sallas O'Brien way to us today. So thank you very much for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Thank you for the opportunity to share. Really believe in what we're doing, and it's a great team at Sallas O'Brien.

Outro

SPEAKER_00 39:26

So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Sounds like you're doing it very well. Thank you. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in to AEC Unscripted, the Mergers and Acquisitions Edition. I'm Jeff Adams, and it's been a pleasure guiding you through MA through the lens of an AEC integration leader. Please remember to subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcast. And until next time, keep pushing forward.