EP67 - VINYL TOY CUSTOMISER - David Bishop RUN DMB

David Bishop is a adult vinyl toy custom artist. Originally from Billericay. Basically, he draws and paints on expensive collectible figures - like Dunny and BearBrick. David got into collecting through vinyl records, the magazine Straight No Chaser, and Mo’Wax records, and then the street artist Futura2000. It was a whole cultural world that appealed to him. Labubu from PopMart is like a modern limited edition adult collectible. He lived in Brighton and was deep in music culture, jazz, big beat, art, Skint Records. Pre-internet culture was knowledge from magazines and meeting other fans, and it was hard to come by items, there was joy in the quest. Japanese Niwaki secateurs. Pharell Williams and Kayne West have both used visuals with Japanese designers and collectable culture. Why has David got beef with Kaws!? Some customisation artists like to resculpt collectibles, but David prefers to just paint them. He gets a vinyl figure, strips the paint off with acetone (carefully), spraypaints a base colour and then uses Posca pens to create patterns. His style is detailed layers of graffiti over the toys. He learned fine art at university and wanted to be a painter. He saw a Kid Robot pop-up at Selfridges, and bought a Munny to customise. He posted it on an early website, and a lot of people had positive comments and there was a supportive Kid Robot community that still exists across social media today. David exhibits at ToyCon at Hammersmith, the biggest custom toy fair in the UK. The shape of the figure and the Posca pen nib will lead his art, he usually starts without a plan and sees where it takes him. Getting emotionally attached to commissions and having to let them go. Some artists don’t spend as long on the back because most people only see the front, NOT DAVID, he gives it all love. David mostly exports customs to America, Japan, and Europe. Flippers will buy customs and sell them on for a profit. David is our most chill guest ever. Digital detox and getting away from screens. Customising Jerry figures by Modern Toss. Art is like meditation for David, time just drifts away. He painted an Open Reach box for the Concrete Canvas street art festival with some Chelmsford cultural legends - Squarepusher and Ceephax Acid Crew. Customising sneakers for collectors. Painting trains. SEE IT, SPRAY IT, SORTED. You can start customising by buying a cheap old blank vinyl toy - check out the sellers at ToyCon!

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Are You Creative? recorded by Adam at Lawker Media, Chelmsford, ESSEX
Edited by Nick Hearne
Artwork by Alpaca Antenna

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Transcript

Nick 0:02

Late night stables and highlands.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Yeah.

Nick 0:06

What happens there after hours?

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Not a lot, from what I can tell. No, everyone leaves at about half past four. Really? Yeah.

Nick 0:11

Are there any ghost horses there?

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Well, I've not seen them.

Nick 0:15

No.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Is it really old? Is the c is the stables really old? It is really old. The house itself's quite old, and I don't I think originally the house wasn't like rendered, so you know it's white. Yeah, yeah. I think it used to be brick. Really? You could see the brick. What I mean is you could see the bricks. That's not very grand, is it?

Nick 0:31

Yeah, so it kind of had quite a different feel. That would look a bit rubbish brick, wouldn't it? I thought it'd be marble or something, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

No, no, no, no, I don't think so.

Nick 0:39

So it's not exactly the Palace of Versailles, is it?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

It's not quite just like this brick, brick building.

Nick 0:45

Sounds like a new build.

Lora 0:46

Oh my day.

Nick 0:47

Highlands House is a new build, isn't that? It's before it was rendered white. Did you know that? Did you know that?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Well, they've got to build it out of something, obviously. So it's usually a popular choice, isn't it?

Nick 1:02

Oh no, but it looks like it already. Because it's got that Roman sort of, I don't know, or Georgian-y look with the columns. I thought it was gonna be like marble.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah, but it's yeah, it's not quite Roman.

Nick 1:12

I mean it's not I didn't think Michael Andrew would come and carved and have one single block of granite. It did not. It lived like Highland's house just above his home. That's why that's what I'm gonna say, right?

Lora 1:24

That's not a bad strap line.

Nick 1:25

It's not the Palace of Versailles. We're at Are You Creative Podcast again at Lochameda Studios in Essex, Chelpson, Essex, the best place in the world, best town. Well, no, not best town, top one of the top three cities in Essex, the best county in the world. And um, and we've got another amazing guest here whose name is David Bishop. David Bishop. And are you from Essex?

SPEAKER_01 1:54

I am from Essex.

Nick 1:54

Good, because otherwise I have to chuck you out. No, I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Are you born and bred Essex? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was uh I I grew up in Billaricky. I was born in Basledon. Yes, wow. Grew up in Billy, Billaricky Bishop. Yeah, yeah. And then when I was about I came to school in Chumced, funnily enough. Um when I was a senior school, and then uh I moved here when I was about I don't know, 25, 26.

Nick 2:18

Amazing, and you've lived here ever since just another another year or so since then. Yeah, yeah, I live down the road. Yeah, amazing! Yeah, that's brilliant. And are you creative? Sort of, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah, I am.

Nick 2:30

I I was on your Instagram earlier on and it says you're you're a part-time. Part-time. Part-time. Yeah. So part-time yes. Yes, part-time yes. Sagate, we've never had a um part-time creative yes before.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Theoretically, I should be creative all the time because my job's supposed to be creative as well, but yeah. I don't think of work as kind of the same thing.

Nick 2:51

Work's the money thing, and what you're here to talk about is what what what you would do if you could just have a fantasy thing where you could do whatever you wanted. Yes, exactly that.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah.

Nick 2:59

Oh, so look, hey, look, what we do now, like Sangeita is now going to guess what you do, and she'll never she'll never be able to guess it.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

No, no.

Nick 3:06

Because I think she's not even aware of what you do as a thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yes, right, okay, yes. It wouldn't surprise me.

Lora 3:13

Okay, so this is a tough one.

Nick 3:15

So Sangeita, Sangita, use your words, describe him.

Lora 3:19

Okay, so he looks like a very intelligent gentleman. Um, somebody I would say who has a lot of knowledge, and if I were to guess, I would say museum somewhere. However, I've got a feeling it's Highlands because I heard that pop up.

Nick 3:33

He has got a studio at Highlands, yeah, in the state of the world.

Lora 3:36

I was gonna say something to do with next to Nestle Guinea Pig. Um, okay, well, I don't know, but something to do with talking. I don't know if it's recording what happens in Highlands or No. No? All right, Tony. What do you think?

Nick 3:50

David Bishop, what do you do?

SPEAKER_01 3:51

I sort of draw on toys. Whoa.

Nick 3:56

So you would say it's a very important thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Is it you customise toys? I customise toys, but not sort of like you know, any old toy. They're kind of it's a sort of very niche scene called sort of design of vinyl, design of toys. They used to be called adult toys until that took on a sort of unfortunate, yeah.

Nick 4:16

Yeah, hey listeners, don't go googling that one.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

David David does not draw on dildos.

Nick 4:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

But yeah, that's so yeah, we try to avoid that. But you know, they've there are so many names for it.

Nick 4:32

We won't do anything about it. So, yeah, adult collectible toys, but now it's vinyl figures, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

And the the reason they're kind of uh for adults, I guess, is because they're so expensive. So yeah, you okay.

Nick 4:43

So Sagittarius, we are talking about this is really high-end, right? So it's collectibles. So say if sorry, you this will you will learn all this in a minute. But if you had a thing like called a Dunny, for example, which is like a a figure, it's called dunny, isn't it? It's like it's like a mad bunny thing. And if it even undrawn on, undrawn on in its raw form, undrawn, even even uncustomized, you know, that's probably gonna cost you about £100 or something, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:10

If you've got yeah, a large one.

Nick 5:12

A large one, and but then when it gets customized and drawn on, it becomes a one of one unique piece, yeah, and that's then worth loads of money. Well, it's more, yeah. 101 one hundred and one pounds. 101 no, but it is that then then they start getting more and more expensive because obviously that there's time that goes into it, but there's the art and the craft and things like that as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yeah, yeah. So they can get they can get quite painful. Um depending on who's gonna be able to do that. Well, the most over a grand? The most I've sold one for was about £800, I think. Wow, need.

Nick 5:46

We are not here to talk about the money though, we're here to talk about the creative craft. Yeah, I have I have bought some with me, so you can we'll have a look at some. We'll have a little show and show and tell in a minute. Wow, brilliant. But I think um it's it's such an interesting scene because if you're not aware of it, you know, this is a whole world that you could you could you could just never know about in your whole life. But as soon as you start noticing bits, you notice them like everywhere, you know, like um in people's windows at shops, around people's houses on their shelves and stuff, and it's very easy to ignore them.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah, yeah.

Nick 6:13

But then when you know, like because I I'm I I love like Futura and Bear brick and stuff and all the Japanese, you know, the Japanese world. Yep. And yeah, it's only just because I've been aware of it. Now like when you see it in different places and you're like, oh, wow, like bear brick, bear bricks, just like he's like a little Lego bear.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah.

Nick 6:31

But people customize them and people trade them and they and they become worth a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Bear bricks are wow. Very collectible, yeah. A lot of the basketball players, the NFL stars, they all have massive collections of of bear bricks and so on.

Nick 6:42

So yeah, Nigo, Nigo from Bathing Ape, who's like a fashion a fashion brand in in uh Japan, like he's like the arbiter of cool taste and collectibles. He he made collecting stuff cool, basically. And like he's got loads of them, and I'm just like just desperate to have one.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

That's really where I got sucked into it. So I I used to I spend a lot of money on records when I was younger, and uh as a consequence, one of the magazines I used to buy was called Straight No Chase, which I don't know if you remember if you like sort of jazz and and so on, then it it kind of trip hop when that was knocking about and hip-hop and and so on. And there was a guy called James Lavelle used to write for it, and he ended up starting a label called Mo Wax, and um they used uh a graffiti artist called Futura, Futura 2000 from New York, so really well known, did covers for the clash, I think, didn't he, and stuff as well. So and uncle, yeah, and then he did a same load of uncle stuff, and and so I've got quite a lot of his stuff, and and and that's kind of what I really liked. Uh, and that's sort of a I gradually sort of got drawn into this scene. I know this.

Nick 7:40

Let me I've I'm gonna just bring this to life for Sangator. So Futura, you know, like it's kind of like when you talk about the difference between street art and graffiti. So he's got a really cool style where it's like aliens, like these little aliens, but they're kind of like American football shapes, and they've got like spiky ears, and they've got really nice, like um spray little spray bits over, like like little galaxies and things. I'm not doing it justice, am I?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Well, he's he's way more sort of abstract than most graffiti generally sort of centres around writing a word or the name, or that was the whole point of it. Um, and but uh Futura kind of took it to the point where he was kind of almost just creating like uh an abstract piece, which was quite unusual back then.

Nick 8:21

It's a whole world that when you look at it, you sort of you feel a vibe, you get a vibe from it, there's something about it.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

It's unique stuff, I don't know what it is. Yeah, yeah, there's something about it really grabs you, and then it it became really, really big with MoWax, uh, and that whole kind of vinyl toy scene then evolved out of that, and by about sort of early 2000s, all these companies were popping up releasing figures. You can still get them now, it's still a massive company from China called Popmart, which you might have seen around you see it in Westfield.

Nick 8:50

Oh, yeah, Sankita. You know about laboo boos? Yeah, labos. Yeah, so labo is like an evolution of this whole thing because you know people buy these blind bag laboo boos, right? This is the same back in the vinyl toy days. People would buy blind bag vinyl toys, and you know, that's when it starts getting collectible and really expensive. I'm glad we've brought it to La Boo Boos. The death of collectibles it didn't take long to track it down.

Lora 9:22

But that's where you got the inspiration from.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

So, yeah, it was from it was from those that liking music really, and then reading all the magazines. I used to, you know, I used to buy all kinds of magazines, very short-lived magazines, you know, and and I'm old enough now that I'm starting to see some of those magazines in museum exhibits and stuff. Um you know, I I I went to the Barbican sort of last year and was looking at uh an exhibition about something I can't remember what it was, but it was music-based, and it had some some magazines that were Kiss FM when Kiss FM was still a pirate radio. Oh wow, and it had two magazines in there, like in a you know, a nice glass vitrine sort of, and I was thinking, well, I've got that one and I've got the other one.

Nick 10:00

I know you remember reading them, don't you? And you know what's on what's on all the pages. Well, I keep them as well. Yeah, I'm I'm one of those people. I saw mine out ones when I was moving house, and it makes me so sad. I had all the Grand Royal uh Beastie Boys magazines and I chucked them out, and I was just like, oh, no, that would never affect. I used to love the car heart rugged magazine as well. And uh what else was around at that time?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

You chucked them away.

Nick 10:23

Yeah, no, I can't believe it. There was so many kinds of shorts. David's just crying now, isn't it? He's pouring a little bit of drink on the curb for these uh these magazines.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

What other magazines were around at the time? Oh, there was Miles ahead, Soul Underground, Blues and Soul, uh I used to I'd hip hop connection, there was Oh, classic, yeah.

Nick 10:44

But it's it's funny that there was this scene and it was real like a scene of the time. I don't know, you know, what sort of what's around now because you know we're too old, we're we're irrelevant now. And that at that time it was exciting, you know. I've I've I met Gempster recently in um in Chelmsfest. Okay, yeah. And and I and we were like we were talking about you know, like big chill times and 93 feet east, and I feel like this there's this whole life in London.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Well, I went to university in in Brighton, and uh, and when I was down in Brighton, you know, you used to be able to go down there and and you'd have the jazz rooms on with Russ Dubri on and and all that stuff was mixed up in it until it got to the point where there was some some lads on my course who were running a DJ night down there, and then that was getting listed in straight no chase. So we're thinking, hang on, what's going on here? And then the the another guy I was with on my course, he ended up doing the covers for um all the skint releases, so fat boy skin, yeah. So yeah, so all that sort of stuff just sort of kept happening, and you kept thinking, oh, this is this is really cool. And I just got more and more into it, really.

Nick 11:41

What was really cool though, I think about that time was just that had like music, have fashion, had had uh visual, you know, like collectibles. Everyone was interested in all these little things and knowing about them, and it was very like early internet days. Yeah, that's right. So yeah, so so sometimes it was like this knowledge you'd have from magazines and things you'd have in your head, you know, like you'd know about stuff, and you meet someone else and they knew more than you, and you're learning from them.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Yeah, yeah. In Straight No Chase, I remember they at the back they used to they would put like a web link in, and it would always be something like you know, like massive attack.demon dot whatever stuff. Oh my god, you've got to dial up to see it, and it would more or less be an image and some text, and that you know, and it was pretty awful. But they used to push it, yeah. And it uh straight no again, Straight Note Chase used to have you would lay out kind of the best clothes from Japan, you'd have hysteric glamour and all the Nego stuff, yeah. And it was it was still just kind of oh, yeah, I'd love to have so you couldn't get it as well. That was the other thing because you because you couldn't just go online and buy it if you wanted it, you had to go somewhere specific to get it, and it was hard to get, and that was part of the the enjoyment.

Nick 12:46

Mate, I'm I'm in Japan next week, and I uh and I know bathing apes not as cool as it used to be, but I used to go there 20 years ago and buy bathing ape. I'm still gonna go there and buy it because bape stars are really wicked shoes. I love it, they last ages. I I'm gardening mines now, honestly, and I and I think one day like there's gonna be a hype beast coming around past my house. Being like, I just saw a guy at Bape Stars gardening.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

They're ruined, like I can't wear them anywhere else. It's funny how you go to gardening, isn't it? Because my wife loves gardening, and I my dad always used to like you know, and you always think, Oh, it's good that they like gardening, but I'm never gonna do that. Do you know what I mean? I'll I'll never do that.

Lora 13:21

Before you know it, before you know it, you're doing the garden.

Nick 13:24

You can yeah, you've got your Japanese streetwear up there.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's uh if you if you buy the Niwaki stuff, of course. So Niwaki's like a Japanese brand, and of course they make gardening. If you want a Niwaki jacket and jeans, you're looking at the wrong end of 500 quid.

Nick 13:37

Mate, if you're not gardening with if you haven't got a Japanese spade, you know, you're not you're not cutting earth properly.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Fortunately, I've got a Japanese secretaire.

Nick 13:44

Yeah, they're two samurai blades. So, Kate, I think um, just you know, to to bring this back, you know, like if you see like Farrell Williams stuff, you know, a lot of his artwork is by Nigo, this um the bathing ape guy from Japan, from this collectibles world. So you probably have seen like bear brick and things like that, because um Farrell often uses that sort of language in his artwork as well. Yeah. And Kenye West for a bit as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah, it's it it it's it's probably in the public consciousness, but you just it's not something you unless you pay. Unless you know, yeah, you're not really you're just gonna be something you've seen, it's just like a another thing that's just and you someone unlock it like now, like you'll know, and you'll be like, Okay, that's what they were talking about.

Nick 14:31

It's it it's like cause, you know, like no, like cause the street artist who does the crosses on the eyes of stuff. Yeah, and and you know, I hate cause.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Okay, yeah, what I'm but the reason I hate the reason I hate is because I customise one of his toys and his legal team chase me out.

Nick 14:45

Oh but but but he does stuff with Uniclove and things like that now, you know. So it's like suddenly you you become aware of these artists um and they but they become in the public conscious.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

He's he's massive, but I mean, yeah, it just really bothered me actually. So yeah, well that's it, he's done for me. I'm finished with it.

Nick 15:03

Adam, Adam, don't let the surprise guests come out of the cupboard. David might attack him. Oh, look, oh Sankita, what we have here, there you go, Adam has found a bear brick for us in his studio.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

That is a that is a 100% bear brick.

Nick 15:20

Oh, look at these. So we've we we have got some bear bricks in the studio.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

So they're the 100% ones, the little ones kind of like they're done the equivalent. Then you buy a 400% one which is about a foot high, and then if you buy the thousand percent ones, they're about three foot high.

Lora 15:35

So, how long does it take you to create to make one of these?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

So to to to paint one's probably one of those little bear bricks, but probably just a few hours to a three hours.

Lora 15:46

But like the big, big versions or customized or 40, 50 hours, I don't know.

Nick 15:50

Wow. So Sankia, let's explain the process to you actually, because because this is a whole weird world. What what you get is a bear brick is like having a canvas, right? Yeah, it is you just get this blank, and then David will take it and and some people will customize them, even take them apart, like you know, cut bits out of them and stick them back together again. But what David does, you mainly just draw on the top of that.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

That's not my bag, yeah. Re-sculpting them is not really something I want to do, if I'm honest. So, what what do you use to draw on them? So when you get one like that, you have to strip the paint off it first of all with acetone, which is deeply unpleasant stuff. So I don't recommend that to anybody. But um you once you strip the paint off it, it's effectively blank, then I spray paint it, and then I will use sort of like uh model kit spray paints to to get sort of base sprays down and stuff, and then I I literally just use Posca pens on them.

Nick 16:43

Poska penska pens about it. I love drawing with Posca pens and the best.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Absolutely, everything is done with that, yeah, and they are very expensive, and I have it. That's why customs cost so much money.

Nick 16:54

Poska pens, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yeah, I I probably have got about, yeah, at any given point, I've probably got about 600 quids worth of pension around the side. Oh my god.

Nick 17:03

Yeah, that's that's what they got security at the end. That's crazy. So I mean, drawing in 3D must be really difficult, like you know, like um you know, working around the shapes of them.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yeah, it can be because obviously, yeah, the pens don't lend themselves to detail and what have you because they tend to flick and then the paint spatters, which is not something I'm happy about. But um and your work's super precise as well. Yeah, which is that's another terrible decision on my part. Should have gone a lot freer. Um should have gone a bit more future, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I should just be a little bit more blasé about it. But um, yeah, no, I I I like it to be uh a certain way, and also the method I've kind of developed over the years is again is a is a terrible way of doing it because I I tend to do like all my black work first, then I'll do a colour, then I go back with black, and then I do another colour, and by the time I've got to two or three layers, I've obliterated half the stuff I've done twice at least, and then I'm still gonna other people do the black layer last because that's like doing the outlines and stuff, right? It's the only way you can get the look, right? So you have to layer it. So you you you if you to do what I do, if you want it to look the way it looks, then yeah, you have to be prepared to basically scrub out half your work all the time. So it's yeah, it's it's painful.

Nick 18:19

We we should um I mean, David, do you want to get some of your customs out? Because I think we'll describe it'd be good to describe them, but I think for Sankia to see them, it's gonna Sankita, use your words when you see them, yeah? Okay, describe them, describe them, use your words, they're very big compared to what Adam gave me.

Lora 18:44

Yeah. Oh my gide days. Wow.

Nick 18:49

What are you looking at?

Lora 18:50

I'm looking at this monster-looking thing, but it's very creative. Very my favourite colours, can I touch it?

Nick 18:57

Yeah, yeah. Sangeet, use your words.

Lora 19:00

Right, so my words are colourful, different, absolutely different. Looks like they belong in Star Wars.

Nick 19:11

So David's actually brought in some of his customers to the studio, which you'll be able to see if you watch the video of this, but if if not, these are probably about you know um 10-15 centimetres high, these vinyl toys, and they look kind of like these mad space aliens, a bit like um in the fifth in the fifth element when the sort of monster things come along, and they're covered in graffiti, like sort of stylized graffiti, which is what David's drawn on them.

Lora 19:41

There is so much detail.

Nick 19:44

Look at looking at these, so what you're sort of doing, you're almost applying this sort of super stylized smart graffiti style over the top of these toys. Yeah. Where where did you develop your style?

SPEAKER_01 19:59

I honestly I don't really I I I I if you want the full story, I did go to university and I did fine art at university, so I was a painter, I did painting. Um I quickly realised I was not gonna make a living as a painter because it's effectively impossible. Um so I ended up I I got a normal job, I got a proper job, blah blah blah blah. And then as I say, I sort of always maintained my interest in kind of laptop culture kind of stuff. Um eventually there was in Selfridges in London, they once had a pop-up of Kid Robot.

Nick 20:31

I remember.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

And Kid Robot was the the the people who make dunnies, and and they another toy they used to call was called a money, yes, and it was blank, and the idea was you would draw on it, and so I got one, and I mean I was you know, I was still quite old even then. Yeah, um, I got one, I drew on it, and then it encouraged you to post it up on this early internet on a forum, on the kid robot forums. So I thought, well, let's stick it up, see what happens. Um so I I I put it up on it, and and people were sort of like, oh, I like that's good, I like that. And and this was this was with your sort of graffiti style, wasn't it? Nowhere near as uh technical as this nothing like literally, I was drawing on it with a Sharpie, I think, the first few I did. Yeah, um so I draw on it with a Sharpie, just literally like doodled it, um, put it up. Oh, I like that. Um and then of course that appealed to my vanity a lot. So I was sort of like, oh this is good. Um so uh then I I I sort of started doing more kind of what I because when I was doing my paintings, they were always abstract, that's what I preferred. Um and so I I tried to think, well, I could you maybe I could use this as a sort of small canvas, you know. So uh so that's where I went with the fan.

Nick 21:43

You know, you know what, people you can never underestimate the importance of encouragement like for creativity. Oh yeah. And I and I think you know, that instant feedback, you know, when you post something online, you know, you you might have just done it put on your shelf and been like, Oh, that was fun.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah, but you see, the internet's not it's not really like that anymore, is it? You know, but back then it was it was very much kind of like, oh, there's a forum, there's loads of people on here, they're all into it. And they would they would comment, you know, people would spend a little bit of time commenting on it. So you would just sort of even that on its own, you just kind of appreciated the fact that there was other people who are interested and you could share kind of what you were doing and if they liked it or if they didn't like it, you know. I didn't mind if they didn't like it.

Nick 22:23

And were people were were people sort of swapping tips or um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

That was the other thing you could find out, like to start with. I didn't, you know, really realise that yes, ideally you need to strip the paint off, and then you need to prime it.

Nick 22:35

And somebody would it would just explain it to you, just you know and and so this was like a m whole money community, or is like a kid robot community.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

It was all kid robot community.

Nick 22:43

Mate, I miss Kid Robot so much. I loved Kid Robot.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Are some of those people still knocking around that? You know, they're still about, yeah. Um so yeah, you you know, you still you still talk to them, uh even now. And I mean it's yeah and that's amazing.

Nick 22:55

So you almost built a little community from Kid Robot what are we talking about? All these disparate communities, the Mo Wax community, like the jazz jazz heads and stuff, and you've got your Kid Robot community, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

And and you still chat to them and you still swap eat swap customs, still knocking around, yeah, and I still get I it's all moved kind of onto Instagram now, but um a lot of the people that I used to sort of speak to still will still comment on Instagram and and so on.

Nick 23:21

I was going through your Instagram earlier, I got exhausted, it just kept going on forever. Yeah, I can't honestly, I cannot believe how many figures you've customized.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah, I've done a lot.

Nick 23:32

You've done a lot. I bet you can't even remember them all, but I it was it was exhausting for me.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

I can remember most of them, but yeah, yeah. No, I yeah, I have done a lot.

Nick 23:39

But but thinking about that level of craft as well and seeing how precise your work is, and knowing how much love that you put into each single, every single one, yeah. I was just thinking, oh my god, this is like this is a million hours.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

It is when it's not kind of what you do for a living as well, yeah. So I they they do take a long time. I and I'm doing a show in in May in in London at Hammersmith called the Toy Con, which is the it's pretty much the only toy show in in the UK for this kind of stuff. Um and it's a two-day event, and I I finally have gone back. I I did the first three or four, and then I gave it up because they moved it to like a weekend format. I just couldn't I could not make enough stuff to sell to to have the point of having a table for two days because I couldn't, I just didn't have enough stuff to sell. Yeah. Um, but I've I made a sort of point this year of trying to get enough stuff together, and I've got about I reckon I've got about 30 bits by the time. Yes, wow, come on. Hopefully that will see me see me through.

Nick 24:38

And and will you be customising stuff live on the stand as well? I don't normally, but I could do. I mean, yeah, I don't it's just I normally I mean I don't mean like someone bringing up a thing and say, Can you draw on my asthma inhaler or whatever?

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Actually, really, yeah, weirdly, that's more what you get. Yeah, you do tend to get paper to cover. Can you just draw on that from okay, yeah, uh come back in two hours and yeah, so because your your wait your um yeah, your wait list must be really long.

Lora 25:03

Do you do you sign every piece of your work somewhere? Yeah, is there a little secret signature of it?

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, that one's covered in them. Really? Where is it? So that's me there. DMB, yeah.

Lora 25:13

Ah I love that. They're all over, basically. Yeah, little tang on there. So even if you think it's yours, it's really not.

Nick 25:21

No, it is you I mean, you never actually did graffiti then. You you just went straight to graffiti on these small characters.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah, I always just really like they are. That kind of that that was the artwork I kind of outside of fine art, which with the best will in the world, I'm not gonna come to a a toy like this and do you know something fine art related on it because it's just not gonna work. But um, that was the kind of outside of that that's what I liked, actually. Um, and so that's what I pursued in my style, yeah. Because and and it was particularly Futura was the the guy that I really liked.

Nick 25:54

You can see it, you can see it, but but what what's nice, it it doesn't look like a rip of Fujuri, you can see the inspiration there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

It's that initial pen work, you know, where he would just literally just swing marks, wouldn't he? Yeah, yeah. And I just took it on from there, really, yeah. But my I used to do a lot of work when I was at at college with handwriting, yeah. And so it kind of wasn't it wasn't massively far removed from it, actually. So um when I when I came to doing these, I sort of started in that direction, and then I've just developed it. Actually, it's part of it's come out of the way that the pens behave when you draw on the surfaces, but because like you said, because they're round, the pens tend to make kind of particular kinds of marks anyway. So you kind of get not help, but you know, you you you you work with the shape of the the thing that you're you're drawing on, so you tend to get a different effect on on each piece, which is what I like about it.

Nick 26:46

When when you start, do you actually have a vision in your head of where it's gonna go or does the pen the pen will just sort of take you a bit? Absolutely no idea. I I love that. So you you you just you just sit down, you start, and the pen will take over.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

If I knew what I was doing, I would I wouldn't do it.

Lora 27:01

Yeah, I mean for random, look at that. Like to go with that. This is proper creative.

Nick 27:07

Yeah, yeah. I love that. So so but you get you like literally you sit down, blank out, blank figure, yeah, and you just get in the zone and you just start drawing. Just somebody's someone switches you on. Yeah, you just start.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Go like run run DMB. You start drawing, you start, you know, you start with a black marks, you try and and balance them out so you it feels right. I don't even know what that you know how to explain that to someone. But you know, you know, you feel it up.

Nick 27:32

That looks like you've got your own language in your head.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Yeah, this is this is this is right. Then I I sort of tidy that up with a little pen, and then I'll go back in with another colour, and like I say, that so on on that piece, you know, that was sprayed grey, then I sprayed the white on it black on the base, but you know, etc. until it was sprayed up. Then you you'd go with with the grey colour outline, the grey, and then well, I quite like the blue. I'm gonna put some. I was gonna say, yeah. That's what you would do, and that that that's basically how I that's basically how I do everything.

Nick 28:02

This is why you got kicked out of fine art, because you because in fine art you can't say, I just thought I put some blue on it because I like blue.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Well, you know, you you actually can if you really want, you can, you can, but I yeah, I did get I got I got told off once in uh in a crit at at university because they thought I was being too flippant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, and I actually wasn't being flippant, and what happened was I did my explanation, then somebody else clearly thought that maybe flippancy was a good thing, and and then gave the explanation of their piece in a very similar vein. And I think the the tutor got really sick of it really quick.

Nick 28:36

Was it was it why did you do that? Because I thought it'd look good.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Yeah, it was more because I mean I was I just gave them sort of straight answers to things, you know. He asked me why I had stripes in, and I said the the stripes on the piece, it's the one in my studio, actually. I never I couldn't let myself give it away to anybody, so somebody tried to buy it off me the other day. I can't I can't sell it to you. Um but um it's got two it's got a blue-black stripe on it, and at the time when I was at university, I used to wear this this top that was blue and black stripes all the time. It was like an inter Milan shirt, yeah. So and I really loved it, and I wore it all the time, all the time. And uh that was my signature basically. So I put this down the centre, and I it also broke up a two-part painting, so it was a diptych. Yeah, we want to get arty about it. Um, and and that was and I I gave that explanation, they were not happy with that explanation. Really?

Lora 29:31

How dare you be honest?

Nick 29:32

Yeah, I'm from Brighton, I'm skint records, I like my football shirt, it's into Milan, I'm using the colours.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

When I was at your yeah, when I when I did go to the fine art course, I mean I turned out I was the only person who liked football, so yeah, of course. I was slightly surprised about that. Um, yeah, that was that's fine art course.

Lora 29:52

So have you ever done a piece? I mean, you said that you've got a piece at home that you would never get rid of because that's your piece, but have you ever been commissioned a piece where it's come out so good where you're thinking, I've just really.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

I've even said to people, I said I'd rather not give you it back, but um, you know, they have paid for it.

Nick 30:12

So can I buy it back off you?

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Yeah, honestly, a few of them I I I would uh just because I I did like them at the time.

Nick 30:20

But um I had that I I had I had my photo taken the other day on a Victorian camera on wet plate on wet plate with um silver silver colloid. Yeah, and the guy said to me, can I might ask for this back in the future for um exhibitions and stuff. Is that okay? Yeah, okay. And I was like, I was like, it must be so hard to just let things go, you know. And then I mean you can't end up being like the Damian Hurst Foundation where you're buying all your own artwork.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Yeah, no, yeah, it's it it it's it's difficult because it obviously when I I don't just trip them off. I don't I I um I don't want to just do them because I don't I don't do it for a living, so I don't I don't have to. So um so I do what I want and and I also I don't I kind of object to people asking me to do specific things as well. So I would usually basically say no if if if you want something specific. I will do like a colour scheme if you really want, yeah, but by and large I try to say no.

Nick 31:19

You're just gonna be like, look, listen, dude, I'm going where the pen takes me. Absolutely. You know, I uh I'm I'm not gonna draw at you, Homer Simpson, on this on this thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

And to be fair, the the vast majority of people are like, well, I don't wanna, you know, I don't wanna I don't wanna stop you doing something, so yeah, I just do whatever you want, and they're quite happy with that. They might say they'd like it a bit of blue or something, which is fun, but I'm hate, but so then really two pieces are never the same, they're never the same because they're all quite pretty unique, yeah.

Nick 31:45

Yeah, and if and I I guess if someone's coming to you and they already like your style, you're like, trust the process, yeah, you know, and what you get is gonna be a one of one. Yeah, no one will ever have seven for something the same.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Yes, that's basically what I say is that you you're you're gonna get what you're gonna get.

Lora 32:00

Um it means it's gonna be unique to you, yeah.

Nick 32:06

And I'm and I'm just gonna post it to you. I'm not even gonna show you everything.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

It's the thing, I don't I don't take any money off anyone until uh until they've until they've seen it, until it's done. So because uh in the scene, kind of a lot of people will take kind of half the money up front and stuff like which I I don't want anyone's money while I'm working on it because other than then they can guilt you into having to do it quicker. So I'm again not interested in that.

Nick 32:28

You're like it's ready when it's ready, you're on David Bishop's time.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

So that's what happens. Don't call me, I'll call you.

Nick 32:38

Hey, look, look, I've just got to tell our listeners here, right? So I'm holding one of these vinyl customs, right? I would say it's like like the size of the biggest baked potato you've ever had, right? Yeah, yeah. Like an alien thing. Now, how long would this one that's about as big as the biggest baked potato you've ever seen in your life? So that one would that take?

SPEAKER_01 32:58

I don't know how long I've spent on that. Maybe uh 20 hours, probably something like that.

Nick 33:02

20 hours. And how many sittings would that be?

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Uh it depends. If if I've got a bit of time, if I like when I do the open days at Highlands, I actually I I quite like that because I get to spend quite a lot of time on the same thing. And also, if you've got four or five in front of you, you you work on one, you put it down, you let it dry, pick up another one and work on that.

Nick 33:21

Okay, but apart from when loads of people come in and ask you questions about them like me.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

I don't mind. Yeah, I'm I I'm I like talking to people there, but it I think a lot of people don't even know it's there, to be honest with you, when they when they come round.

Nick 33:32

I mean, yeah, it's it do you do you find um because you know, doing like close work, I used to paint Warhammer figures, right? Okay, yeah, you know, and and like doing close work and doing like detailed work, you've really got to zone in and it does get exhausting, you know. Like after a while you suddenly realize, oh my god, I've had my face right up to this model for ages.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Yeah, I'd I I could never paint Warhammer figures for exactly that reason. Well, I couldn't now my eyes are ruined. I have got my glasses in my jacket there, and I was just pretending I don't need them at the moment, but um, yeah, no, that it's yeah, sometimes you you get a bit too drawn into it and it's a bit fine. But that part of the whole process of it was not not to do that. Yeah, because I don't want to do that.

Nick 34:17

What what what's cool about these as well is because you know you're thinking about it as a large canvas, you know, you there's an overall like a holistic look to it, yeah, but then there's all these small details in the like your uh your d your DMB signatures, and you know, the more you look at it, the more you discover.

Lora 34:31

The more you find. So I've got this little piece here, and it's got lots of little colours, and I can see a skeleton, but as I look closer, I can see the word no, then I can see some numbers. So you're right, you have to get really detailed.

Nick 34:43

Yeah, but you can appreciate you you can appreciate it from a from a from a top level as well as looking at it in more detail.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Well, I I hope the people who do have them do actually have a good look at it. I mean there was a bit of um a sort of approach, quite a lot of people, where they they would paint the front, yeah, not really worry too much about the back because the back's on you know, when you've got it on the shelf, well no one's gonna look at the back. But I'm like, well no, you've done amazing. But you your men are look at it all the way around. You know, it's not worth having.

Lora 35:13

Well, it makes you it it actually makes you want to look all the way around, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Well, I hope that I mean I hope the people who buy them do, but I mean, you know, I don't know what they do with them. I know some people have got outrageous displays with with yeah, built-in cabinets along massive long what I mean, it's ridiculous what some people do.

Lora 35:29

Do you have have you got that customer that will constantly come back to you because they're so addicted to this? This is like their Faberget eggs, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Every year I'm gonna order one.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

I have, I have got some, and you know, that they're the people that you you know you save your best stuff for as well, aren't they? Yeah, if I if for instance one of these big ones, if if I if I knew it was a certain that there's a few people who buy for me, and if I know it's them, it's there's no way it's going until it's absolutely perfect. Because I know that's that's that's that's neat ego when Nego sort of one. It's the best thing, isn't it? Is it is it somebody who really care values it? That's what you want. That's who I want to have for.

Nick 36:09

Do you do you have Japanese customers? A few, yeah, not not loads, I say because they and they're gonna care the most out of everyone, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:15

It's mostly mostly Americans, yeah. Weirdly, um quite a few in Europe, so Japan and Italy and many from the UK, yeah, quite a few. Yeah, there's one one one chap in particular name, but he he buys a lot of my stuff, and there was an another guy who used to buy a lot and he ran out of of yeah.

Nick 36:34

And it's is there a secondary market for it? You know, can can people resell it? Is that is it like this is a run D M B original?

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yes, there is, which is I I don't I don't mind actually. Uh funnily enough, uh things like Toy Con when you will get a lot of people who are flippers basically. So you know, like when people buy the new trainer releases and stuff. Yeah, not dolphins, they'll just literally buy them, yeah.

Nick 36:57

No, you know what a flipper do you know what a flipper is?

unknown 37:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

So they will come along and they will they will they will buy the pieces and they will literally get out of the venue and then they will sell them again for twice as much money as they bought them for. That's crazy. Um and that's because the the people selling them in there obviously are are ultimately just sort of this is what I'm gonna charge for them to be reasonable.

Nick 37:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Even though they they probably know in truth that they can go for more than that, but then you become the person who's just trying to rinse it for money, and then that's not that doesn't fit the the the scene if you're gonna be able to do it.

Nick 37:34

So do you sound someone out? Like you got like little interviews and you work out if they're a flipper or not? No, it's like do you like do you like the taste of sardines?

SPEAKER_01 37:42

You just know they give away that one.

Nick 37:47

They can't help themselves, but can you communicate over large distances underwater? Can you can you can you balance a ball on your nose and jump through a hope?

SPEAKER_01 37:59

No, you're stereotyping dolphins.

Nick 38:01

Yeah, I know, sorry, yeah, I don't I don't want to be dolphinist. Um but do you do you get a feel for like if someone if someone's like a tie kicker or they're like you know just looking to get something to flip? Yeah, and they know that if you draw a hot Homer Simpson on it, then they're gonna be able to sell it for twice as much. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

My view on it is that I ultimately I'm I ask what I think it's worth.

Nick 38:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

And then if they make twice as much money out of it because they found somebody who'll pay more, that's fine by me, because I've got what I thought it was worth.

Nick 38:28

So and you're happy that your time's been compensated, you've enjoyed the process.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah, I've done it, I've got what I what I wanted for it. So if somebody else can get more, that's up to them, and that's that's fine. I don't, it doesn't bother me.

Nick 38:39

But um I've gotta say, I think you might be like our most chill guest ever. Right, right, right, no, no, Sagittarius. Do you know what? Am I the oldest guest? No, no, no, no, no, not at all. The oldest guest I've had was about um 95. So um, but what I'm gonna say is I think that this as you this is your hobby, right? Yeah, you're you say you're a part-time toy customisation. I think this is the most zen thing, right? If you're doing close work and you're like locked in on on this customisation, yeah, and you're just letting a pen do its work, it's easy to- You must be like that, must be like a real happy place for you.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Yeah, I I just I just like I mean it's easy to lose a lot of time, yeah. You know, um I like for example, when I'm at uh work at lunchtime, I will I will do these and I'll sort of start, and I've got about you know about an hour, let's say, in it. You realise that you've I've I've barely sort of started before I went on that. The hour's gone. The hour's gone, so it's like right, okay.

Nick 39:39

So I do this, I I I do a lot of um pen work, I do merch for bands and stuff, and I and I and I hand draw it and I put a podcast on, and the end the podcast will end, and I'd be like, What? That was an hour? Yeah, you know, because you just you're just locked in, like drawing and it and it and it feels so chilled afterwards. Like, we'll have another episode of that, another episode. Before you know it, you've done four four So what sort of pen and ink work do you do then? I always use the same Stabilo as Stabilo the stripy black and white pen. Yeah, and I and and I I just do black and white drawing and then I'll scan it in and um yeah. I I have not got on to doing it on a tablet or uh iPad or anything with procreators. Yeah, I've never done that. I still like the physical analogue drawing, yeah. Same. Um and and I love it, it just makes me so chilled, and it's so nice to get away from a screen as well. I don't need to be on the um because I know you know you're a graphic designer during the day as well, and I do similar work as well, and it's just so nice to to separate corporate paid work from stuff that I enjoy doing. Yeah, exactly. I'd enjoy doing that as well, but you know, yeah, I know what you mean. To be in the analogue world, yeah, it's just and this why I I'm feeling your zen.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah, I just get all the pens out, you know. I get all the pens out. I've got 40-50 colours there, most of which I know I'm probably not going to use, but you know, it's it's just and then I'll look at graffiti books or whatever, and I'll just say, all right, yeah, quite I like that colour combination, and I'll try a bit of that, and and that that's all I have to do, you know. So I uh like on that purple one, I was just quite enjoying there was a little bit where it was kind of feeling a little bit neon, and I was thinking, oh that's working. Yeah, that's amazing. The colours in that area. So you know, I was I was that's that's what I like, yeah. I just that's that's the bit that's really enjoyable, isn't it? Is when you do it and then something really works, and you think, oh that's the one. But then but then you've got to know when to stop. That's the problem, isn't it? The problem with that is then you do the next piece, you think it'll never be as good as that. That one I do. Yeah, that one I did the other day, that's the best one I've ever done. Yeah, I'll never better that. I'm basically finished. I'm pegged, I'm on the decline now. Yeah, yeah, it's all that it's all downhill.

Nick 41:42

Then right, you have bought this, right? You've bought this funny little figure in here. He's like some sort of fat Elvis guy with sideburns, right? So even when you think you've done, you've peaked, you've done your futurists you've done your mad like robots, yeah, then does a new vinyl figure come out and you're like, okay, it's brilliant. I now I'm gonna start mucking around with it.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Yeah, yeah, you always get really all that. I did one of those the other day. That that is for Tell us what it's called. He's called Jerry. What is he? What is Jerry? I think Jerry is based on a sort of 1970s sitcom, a bit like think the good life, think Jerry in the good life.

Nick 42:13

He looks like a used car salesman, this guy. We're gonna call him Grumpy. Yeah, he looks like he's got a miserable soldier. We've got this vinyl figure. He's got he's got a he looks like he's got a toupee on, and he's got like a double-breasted jacket, yeah, and he's got a cigar. He looks like he's gonna sell a used car.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

The guy who made him is is from a uh a thing called Modern Toss. Have you heard of Modern Toss?

Nick 42:34

I love Modern Toss.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

If you if you they used to have their cartoons sort of printed. Mr. Tourettez is one of the greatest characters ever. There you go. Yeah, and Jerry Flat. Jerry is famously sweary, a famously sweary character. Yeah, um, yeah. So the guy I met him at um, funnily enough, at a weird little again, a little toy thing in in derby last year. And he said, Oh, yeah, he had a Jerry figure, and it actually had uh it had um an electric cigarette in it. So he did actually smoke, and it was like, oh this is brilliant, this is the best thing I've ever seen. Um and I I just was talking to him and I said, Oh, I could do one. And so I I did one recently for him, actually, and it was Jerry, and he said, Oh yeah, put him in a like a Poochie Pattern suit, which I I had to look it up, I didn't know what Poochie Pattern was, but actually it's quite once you've seen it, it's very 70s kind of psychedelia kind of thing. Um and yeah, I did a I did a Poochie Pattern version of Jerry for for him.

Nick 43:30

And so it must be really interesting, you know, when you've got a new shape to work with, like and you take your pens for a walk and you start like going over it, it must unlock new levels for you of it.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Yeah, it does, because yeah, that's that's what I was saying earlier, is just when you once you st depending on what the curves are and all the st all the details and parts, it you have to basically treat it in a different way. So I do a lot of ones called um like Kid Katanas and stuff, which is a kind of a like a samurai figure, and that and the uh the figure itself has got a load. Of detail on it. It's got lots and lots of detail on it. And it's kind of to the point where for me it's painful and I don't know.

Nick 44:06

Well, cause the pens just can't flow like you want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

You keep hitting little pimples and bumps and ridges and edges and and yeah, and it it's really hard. So I kind of like that anything that's kind of flat, smooth, simple, um, because it's the easiest thing to react to. But uh, whereas the other ones they feel a little bit when they're very detailed, you feel like you're colouring them in. Yeah, yeah.

Nick 44:27

It's a bit like bit boring. But um I think I quite enjoy that. You know, like Sagittarius, I think that's like when you know when you're a kid and you get like a um a little figure with like a little paint pot that to colour it in.

Lora 44:38

That's right, yeah.

Nick 44:39

You know, like an Ace of Bunny or something like that. This is like the this is taking that to the most elite level it could possibly go to. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

That's like a colouring book, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's quite nice. But um, yeah, you I just I just enjoy it and I just like the process really. It's just it's like you say, it's something that you can just do and and and time kind of drifts along a little bit more and it's it's it's more than that. When you're enjoying it, right? It's a remote. Where you're not I'm not thinking, oh god, I've got to do this, I've got to do that.

Nick 45:09

Yeah, that's right, yeah. That's what's nice when you're doing it on your run D M B time as well. Like it's ready when it's ready, right? Yeah, so you're not hurrying, uh you'll always enjoy the process. Yeah, no one can like tighten that stress screw on you.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Very occasionally somebody will like for ToyCon, for example. I I will get sent toys, and obviously I know it's got to be ready for ToyCon, so I've got X number of weeks to do it. Yeah, but by the same token, I've still got this long list of customs, and I'm like, well, this person's been waiting for a year and a half, so I can't I can't skip past that. But then I kind of you have to be realistic and go, well, I have to do some things for Toy Con because if I don't sort of stay in the game, as it were, when when that big show's on, if I'm not there or I don't have anything on anyone's staff, you're not really part of it anymore. So you in in order to remain part of it, you have to kind of do those things as well. So sometimes people's customs will wait, but mostly people are pretty good about that, they don't mind. They just as long as they're on the list and they know it's gonna happen, which it will happen, and also, like I say, I'm not holding anyone's money, so no one's lost it. Yeah, that's true.

Nick 46:19

I love this, it's so rare. Like it's just like, oh, I mean I'm I am in the wait list. It's like trying to get an ADHD assessment on the NHS. I know it's coming seven years' time.

Lora 46:33

But it'll be worth it.

Nick 46:43

Sagittarius, you might have seen a bit of David's um artwork and not known it. Which is, which is a um an open reach box near Chelmsford Station from concrete canvas. Yeah, that's right, yeah.

Lora 46:56

Okay.

Nick 46:57

And the one nearest Anne Knight building. It's right near the uh the zebra crossing.

Lora 47:02

Oh, well, I'll go and have a look.

Nick 47:03

So when did you do you did that last was that last year you did that? That was two years ago now, wasn't it? Is that the biggest thing you've ever done? Because that, you know, like when you're used to working at this tiny baked potato scale.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

It's the biggest thing I've ever done recently. I'll put it that way. Yeah, when I was at college, I used to paint sort of eight-foot canvases, but um now not so much. So um, but yeah, so that was the biggest thing I've done for a long time.

Nick 47:23

How did you find that? Actually, you know, working one, working in public where people can walk past and talk to you, but also working on a larger canvas.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Yeah, the the working in public, but it was quite I enjoyed the bit with the working in public because people did come and talk to you, and apart from the very odd few people who sort of really did genuinely seem to think I was just vandalising it, even though I was literally making no attempt to sort of hide it or anything. I I don't know, that was a bit weird, but um yeah, no, mostly people just wanted to talk to you and they liked it, or they you know they just wanted to ask you what it was or what it was about, and the concrete canvas thing that was well, what I was told was it had to sort of relate to Chelmsford. Yeah, so um so I did mine on I had Square Pusher on it and C Fax Acid. Amazing, yeah. So Square Pusher was a couple of years below me at school, yeah, yeah. Um, and I used to lend him records occasionally when he was when he was younger, and then he wouldn't know who I was now, of course, but um and his brother is C Fax Acid who does really cool, still doing kind of retroacid.

Nick 48:22

Absolutely warp records royalty, both of them. So Sangeti, when we talk about Mo Wax earlier, right? There were some big record labels at the time that were just the coolest things you could ever imagine, and it was MoWax, Warp Records, and Ninja Tune, yeah. And and we've got two of the absolute kings of warp records in Chelmsford. Yeah, wow. I've got and they're on the open records. They've got a lot of their records, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

So yeah, they are, and they were on there. So yeah, I put SquarePusher on it and I put C Facts as a question.

Nick 48:49

Has he seen it? I have no idea, probably not, but uh how often how often do you walk past it? Because I always think about this, like you know, you when you talk about you know, you send them off, send your toys off. But when you've done something like an open reach box and you're probably walking past that like once a week or something.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Yeah, I'll go past it reasonably.

Nick 49:03

But you think I'll change that? Or I would I I wish I'd done that.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Yes, quite a lot, yeah. I I sort of ran out of time on it because it was a weekend and and I uh I think I'd sort of overreached myself in the way I I did it because I was doing it with brushes and stuff, which is just insanely stupid to do.

Nick 49:20

The reason why I'm asking is I'm gonna do a bollard, hopefully, this year. Yeah, and um and I'm starting to be like, oh my god, how long is it gonna take and how am I gonna do it?

SPEAKER_01 49:29

And with a stable though, it'll take you a long time, yeah.

Nick 49:31

Yeah, no, I am not doing it. I would I would break so many nibs. The whole canal would just be filled up with broken.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Yeah, that would no, that it it it takes longer than you think. Yeah, but it does it depends what your approach is, doesn't it? Because like like when I see a lot of the the guys uh spray painting, I mean they get huge areas covered really quick, and they're really good with them, really precise. That's I I love going to see them do their stuff, and I mean there's some terrific pieces around as well. Uh mine was just nothing like theirs at all, and I I I I do feel like I probably could have if I'd had a bit more time, I probably could have stenciled it a bit more and it would have been quicker and all the rest of it, but it would have been different, and I I didn't want to do that, I just wanted to paint it, so I painted it with brushes and acrylic paints, which was idiotic, really.

Nick 50:21

Yeah, so you bate what's funny is like you've done graffiti derived artwork, but then in your fine art materials with like brushes and stuff, trying to replicate the graffiti, the original graffiti style. Yes, this is like this is like graffiti full circle, it's like ob Oberos the snake that's eating his tail.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was yeah, I don't know why I went that way, but that's what I went for, yeah. Yeah, it's just again, it was you know, you've got the box, it's there, and it's kind of like it's got locks on it and stuff, and bits that are in your way, and you're kind of right, well, I've got to get it round that. And I'd uh I had a head on it, and the head didn't quite work round the lock and stuff, and it was that was quite irritating.

Nick 50:59

So I know Square Pusher's eyes gone funny, like a weird like lock eye.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

The only thing is with that as well, isn't it? Is it you don't have to be miles off for it to then I thought it doesn't, it's not enough like him.

Nick 51:09

Yeah, and I was like I mean, he looks different all the time, sometimes with beard, sometimes with long fair.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Well, I kept faffing around with him.

Nick 51:16

Sometimes with a bass, sometimes with like a a a 303. Yeah, yeah. I'm lovely, Sangir. I'm nerding out so much. I'm loving it. I'm absolutely in my nerd heaven. No, you you've done some you've done some like sneaker customs as well.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Have you?

Nick 51:37

How does someone go about like asking for a sneaker custom and then do they actually wear them or do they just put them on the shelves?

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Um that's a good question. I don't know. I don't know. I I that people just have occasionally asked me, and occasionally I've just done them because I felt like doing some trainers. So it's usually actually if I'm if I'm flicking through the the trainer sales, because I buy a lot of trainers, um, and I see something basically white and leather. It has to be white and leather. I don't I don't really want to do canvas stuff and because the pens bleed and they just don't behave the right way. Um so if I've got that, then I yeah, basically you do have to be a little bit careful if you want to wear them because you've got to strip their factory finish first. So you know you can buy there's a company called Anglers that that makes all these products that you can do that with, and it's quite straightforward to strip it down and and you will get it back to essentially white leather. Yeah, and then I will mask it up, I will spray paint it, and then I will draw on it, and and you will get and there's yeah, there's a chap in London who's bought three pairs of me now, I think.

Nick 52:40

Um have you ever been approached by any of these sneaker brands to actually do like a proper full full collab on it? No, I just I don't really push them too much for that. No, but you know, like when you look at someone like Dave White, for example, like who he you know, he started out like he did some Jordan customs and things, and then you know, ends up before you know he's got his his his Jordan, which is what one of the all-time classics.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Yeah, well, you know, it'd be nice, but uh yeah, I don't I don't think that's gonna happen. But um yeah, I the the superstars that I did for that guy, he wears them, yeah. And he wore he wore one pair out, so he asked me for another pair. So yeah. Well uh are you like don't do don't wear them. Yeah, yeah. No, I don't I want him to wear them, to be honest with you.

Nick 53:16

Again, the only people that the only people that can wear run DMB superstars are run DMC, right? Anyone else that no?

SPEAKER_01 53:25

He wears his around, he's he's yeah, he's he likes them, he wears them all the time. Fat laces, yeah, he does actually. Yeah, and he he was I'll tell you what he was good at. He was good at putting different colour laces. I'd never thought of it. I just gave him back the ones with the white laces, and he put a different pair of. Well, he put a different colour lace. I thought, they look so much better. Uh it just look literally just for changing the lace colour. I thought it was miles better.

Nick 53:55

You know, if anyone wants to start doing this, yeah, you know, and get inspired by it, yeah, you know, how can how can they how can they get started? Because these vinyl toys are pretty expensive. Anyway, it's a big commitment.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Yeah, but the the things like the the monies and stuff. If you if you if for example, if you went along to ToyCon in May, so it's right at the start of May, there there's sellers there that just sell the the toys and they have all the old kid robot stuff, so they've got all the monies and stuff. They're about you'd probably get one for a 10 or 50. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not too bad. Not too bad. Uh for a reasonable size toy, it'd be blank vinyl, go to Halford's, buy some uh car body paint, so the car body primer, yeah, spray it with that, and you're good to go. You can you can paint on that. Really?

Nick 54:37

And you could grab some sharpies or poskas or anything, and yeah, as long as you prime that vinyl with it.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

And like I say, Halford's quite like carb primer be absolutely fine.

Nick 54:46

Why do you have to prime it? What's the importance of that?

SPEAKER_01 54:48

The primer stops it being that kind of slippery plastic. Oh, okay, and basically the paint sticks to the surface and the primer sticks to the plastic, so that's that's how you get around that.

Nick 54:57

And then when you're finished, like do you how how do you do you varnish it or do you spray some fixer on it? No, it's it's varnished, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

Like a kind of standard varnish you'd use on models, like like Warhammer fixer.

Nick 55:08

Like a spray, like a spray varnish.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Yeah.

Nick 55:10

Well, yeah, because I felt a bit naughty I felt naughty even touching them earlier.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

Like, I was like, oh, I've got gloves on. They have not been varnished, so yeah. But they'll they'll be fine, yeah. I I I handle them a lot, obviously, while I'm doing them, but it it it does help kind of not to handle them too much, but yeah, it's fine.

Nick 55:27

But do you think that could could anyone just grab anything and just start drawing on it and customise it? Yes, of course. We we had this we had this young uh graffiti artist Grubbin. Uh Grub. And he was brilliant because he because uh and I uh and I bought him some Hornby train trains because he's the only one that's painting a train. So me and Adam have both got one. Oh right, okay. It was fantastic. It wasn't just like one side customised, he was doing loads of tiny little um tags on it.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

Yeah, there's one you can get from uh he probably love is one you can get from America called um All City vinyl. Yeah, it's uh it's a half subway train, it's about that wide. Oh, I've seen yours, yeah, it looks amazing. And if you buy two of them, they do actually slot together so you can have a a a full carriage, and that they are amazing and they're really nice to work on.

Nick 56:10

I I really want to go at this just for I mean, mainly like I want a creative output, but also like just the chill of doing it. Yeah, you know, like saying, you know, like you see all these stitch of bitch sessions and like art sessions and pubs and stuff. I feel like we could sit around a table doing this and just come away like you know, just glowing.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

I think that's the thing about it is if you are if you wanted to do it, the the the thing about it is to not to get hung up on doing some somebody else's stuff. Yeah, yeah. You know, I've I've seen guys who do those the the the half trains and they're just reproducing Don D carriages and oh yeah, really famous ones, and you're just like it's great, it really looks like it, but like to what end? Because you you've just done a drawing of someone else's carriage, and like the whole point of Dondi was he was you know climbing on trains in yards and painting them, and that was the that was supposed to be the fun.

Nick 57:02

I saw the best central line painted the other day, a whole carriage, and it said, see it, spray it, sort it up, and it just honestly it looked it made me feel like that wild style New York sort of vibe, and and and it's just the fact that they're sprayed at such a big scale with such a good gag, so well executed.

Lora 57:26

Love that how amazing. Yeah, how amazing. I mean strangeless.

Nick 57:35

I kind of I kind of want one, but I feel like my wife would just make me get rid of it straight away. She'd be like, Can't believe you bought more junk in the house. Not junk, but you know what I mean. If you don't understand the culture, it's just like more stuff in the house.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

I think, yeah, I think my my wife would not collect them given the choice. Yeah, so put it that way, yeah.

Lora 57:54

But they are absolutely beautiful.

Nick 57:56

I would I I but I'd love to see like a ten-foot one, you know, I'd love to see like a gundam lift.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Yeah, I'm sorry, I I would love to do a really like ridiculously large one.

Nick 58:04

I don't know how I would do it, but I'd can can we organise that we just go and um paint Judge Tyndall one day in run DMB style?

SPEAKER_01 58:14

It might be a bit of a giveaway.

Nick 58:16

I do think I think for concrete canvas, we should go down a 3D scan Judge Tyndall, the statue, get him replicated, right? And do a run run DMB one. It would look so good.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Having a nice little mini Judge Tyndall would be quite funny. Yeah, yeah. Can I commission that? That would actually be really good. Well, if I you'd need somebody to make it for you. I don't really make that.

Nick 58:37

No, no, no, if if I make it, you can you'll draw it. Of course. In about eight years.

unknown 58:42

I'm just waiting for that.

Nick 58:44

It's gonna be one one day, David's gonna get in touch. He's gonna be like, I've I've drawn that, I've drawn that judge. Who who's this?

SPEAKER_01 58:50

For you, Nick, I'll make an exception.

Nick 58:53

Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

How amazing.

Nick 58:55

Right, so I'm gonna have I'm gonna have a go. I want to chill out and and and do one. I might customize one of my aspirin halers, actually. I think that'd be a nice canvas to do it. Honestly, it's so easy. Yeah, wicked. With all everything I've learned here.

Lora 59:07

Absolutely amazing.

Nick 59:08

Big up, and this good thing, like you could, you know, like down the youthie, you know, you get your kids to do this sort of thing. I think it's it I think it'd be such a great mental health exercise for everyone.

Lora 59:17

Funny you should say that, because we've just bought some little dollies, wooden ones, yeah, um, to make them into the called worry dolls for young people that don't have families, and that's the concept. Um, and I did speak to Adam about it to do some signage on it, but we've got the young people who will be painting it, and then we'll stick the stickers on it with a little message. Amazing. This is amazing.

Nick 59:38

But Lynn, you know, when you see how far you can push it, like with this fine art and stuff and this detail, it's so cool.

Lora 59:43

Yeah, definitely. The key rock no defo big up 100%. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

It's just you know it's just it's an opportunity to do what you want and not what other people want, which is why I don't let other people control what it's about.

Lora 1:00:00

But I'm just loving this alien theme.

Nick 1:00:02

Oh, yeah, it's again just take any that you want.

Lora 1:00:04

Davidson is fine.

Nick 1:00:06

Um just take any home. I'll have all of them then.

Lora 1:00:10

I've got five kids.

Nick 1:00:11

Um but isn't it isn't it mad like this this amazing culture is happening in Chelmsford at Highland Studio, you know, next to Natalie Guinea Pig and all these other people that are there doing like all like different stuff.

Lora 1:00:25

I would never have thought that. When you guys were saying Highlands, there's no way I would have thought this was being during your lunch break.

Nick 1:00:32

You thought you thought it'd be some frousy art and they're gonna bring out this like amazing no, I was like, whoa! Yeah.

Lora 1:00:42

More than dope, mate. Wait till you see the pictures.

Nick 1:00:45

All right, thank hey, thanks for listening to Are You Creative? Thank you, Sengator. Thank you, Nick. Thank you, David. Thank you for having me. And thank you very much, Adam, at local media. Follow us at r.u.creative.podcast. Let us know you're listening. Send us messages. I love it when you hear people are listening.

Lora 1:01:00

Could you want to put your number on then?

Nick 1:01:01

What? Or has they got drop a miss call? No, you can you can get in contact on Instagram.

Lora 1:01:06

Oh right.

Nick 1:01:06

Yeah, and then um we've got loads of more great guests coming up as well. Oh my god, I've got so many good episodes coming out soon. This will come out after them, but you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

As long as not two years.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

David, David, where can people um see your work? Uh so um on Instagram, I'm at run D M B vinyl.

Nick 1:01:26

Run D M B vinyl. Yeah. What's your favourite run D M C lyric? Oh well now you ask. Jesus, oh my god. It's the king of toys! There is none! He gets eleven pounds for his dungeon!