Real Estate Investing Strategies + Teaching & Mentoring Others With Guest Brian Gordon and Host Stephen Simpson - Ep. 11

On this episode Stephen interviews Brian Gordon. Brian is a Real Estate Professional who has had key roles at a large Canadian REIT as well as the Ontario Municipal Property Assessment Corporation (MPAC).  

Brian has always found an interest in the Canadian financial system and how money works. In part from experience working for a real estate investment trust. Brian’s personal interest in real estate investing prompted him to build his portfolio. Which consists of multiple investment properties ranging from legal duplex/triplex, vacation rentals and apartment buildings. Brian has also developed a college course which he delivers at Toronto’s George Brown College which helps investors learn to invest in real estate and finds time to mentor others who are looking to grow their portfolios.  

Links 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/brigor 

Instagram: acquiring_wisdom 

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Subscribe: @focuscapitalpodcastwithstephen  

Listen on your favorite Podcast Player: www.buzzsprout.com/2358487  

Web: www.focuscapital.ca 

Transcript

0:00

for joining us, and we'll see you next time.

Stephen: 0:11

Hi guys, Stephen Simpson here. Welcome to the Focus Capital podcast. On this episode, I interview Brian Gordon. Brian is a real estate professional. He's also an investor and he also teaches a college course on real estate investing here in the GTA. We have a great conversation about what he's doing personally. In terms of real estate investing, we talk about the market and also how he's helping other people to get into real estate investing through his college course. So I think it's an episode you're going to get a lot out of. And if you're interested in finding out more about what we're up to at Focus Capital, I invite you to check out our website, focuscapital. ca. On there, you can find a lot of great resources. If you leave your email, you get access to our newsletter and our investing guides as well. And with that, I hope you enjoy the show. Brian, welcome to the podcast.

Brian: 1:07

Happy to be here Stephen.

Stephen: 1:10

All right. Sounds good. Yeah. I'm looking forward to the conversation today. we've known each other for some time through various investment groups that we're part of. And I think you've got a great story. I think you're someone who is not only implementing different investing strategies in the real estate space, but you're also a. Teaching others how to do it, which I think is fantastic. And on the personal development side, I think you and I have a lot in common as well in terms of the things you're interested in. So I'm really looking forward to the conversation today and learn a bit more about the details of what you're up to. So maybe to kick things off, I, it would be great if you could just talk a little bit more about what some of those early influences were growing up and maybe what kind of pushed you to. Get into real estate. I know you had a career in real estate, but also, you're doing things on the personal side as well. Talk a bit about what some of those early influences were. Was it a book or a mentor or something that came across your path, which sort of, piqued your interest and steered you towards real estate.

Brian: 2:07

Yeah, so I would say it really started. It wasn't a book. It wasn't a mentor It was probably my mother, at an early age she has always Instilled on us to buy real estate and not necessarily as a real estate investor But at least at the bare minimum owning your own home And that's something she continued to do And still in all of us. So I have two other brothers. And so I didn't know how I was going to do it. I didn't know what I was going to do, but I just knew that, cause I obviously trust and love my mother, that real estate was going to be the Avenue that I was going to use to one day build wealth. And I think that's when then reading different books, like many of us investors have read, rich dad, poor dad, multiple streams of income. Some of my favorite earlier books that I've read. And just continuing to read, listen to podcasts as I got older and just really finding my way to different real estate groups and different strategies to kickstart my journey.

Stephen: 3:07

Yeah, that's awesome. And so what was it what were some of the first maybe steps that you took to look into real estate? Was it learning from others or trying to do a deal yourself? Or what were some of those initial steps maybe that you took to to start your journey there?

Brian: 3:20

Yeah. Great question. So initially I think I bought my first property when I was 22, but it was for my principal residence. It wasn't really about investing again. It was just. I was just taking in what my mother had told me over the years and so I bought my second property when I was probably 23, 24, again, semi detached in a terrible neighborhood in Scarborough. And from there, I took a pause. And that's where I started just really learning, reading some more. And then finally, I went to a multi family event about eight or nine years ago in Hamilton. for having me. Met up with a number of other investors and two of the investors that I met there Said to me that you need to join this real estate group out in durham And I heard about this group before I never really thought much of it and they you know They swore up and down on this real estate group and the value that it brought to them And then so I finally said, okay fine. I'll go i'll give it a try And I went a couple times and I think that's really where You My real estate journey really kicked off and I think that's because I was able to surround myself around like minded people, you know Going to these sessions, learning from them, learning from the guest speakers, understanding about different real estate strategies. And, I'm a big believer in learning, like you said, personal development and being able to have that community. At this real estate group really allowed me to focus get clarity on how to invest, where to invest, and really some of those fundamental things that I think we all need in order to become a real estate investor. So if you take away anything from this podcast is I'm a big believer in surrounding yourself around like minded people. And one of the great ways to do that and inexpensive ways to do that is joining a high quality real estate investment group.

Stephen: 5:12

Yeah, awesome. Said. Yeah. And I, as I was saying earlier, I think that's one of the things that you and I have in common. I think, making sure that you're feeding your mind and you're also, learning from other people from lessons learned and mistakes maybe they've made and, speeding up time and your own sort of journey and how you're doing things is super important. So yeah, that totally resonates with me. I'd love it if you could talk a little bit more about. Your career in real estate you've obviously worked in a few different roles over the course of your career at MPAC and at a REIT I see in earlier in your career. And it's always interesting to me to talk to people who work in the real estate field who, but who also take on some action and also invest in real estate, because there are a lot of people who really don't, they just, They have real estate as a career, but maybe not, taking that sort of second step and investing in real estate and using it as an asset, something to help them in their financial strategies. So I'd love it if you could talk a little bit more about how you got into your career and maybe how some of those roles that you've had over your career has have helped you personally with your investing strategy,

Brian: 6:22

Yeah, so my actual educational background is in property assessment valuation. I have, I can be an appraiser if I want or work on the assessment side, which obviously helped me at MPAC. But once I graduated from that program, I was recruited to one of the real estate investment trust. Now probably the biggest real estate investment trust in Canada choice properties. Previously, there were Canadian real estate investment trust, and I was so lucky and fortunate to. Be a part of the transactions group. So the transactions group is they're the ones buying properties doing the dispositions And we're talking 30 40 100 million dollar properties throughout canada So I was in this group. My associate vice president was in charge of the land development So i'd go to work every day pre covid, of course And listen to all these transactions. I would see the transactions and You I think one of the biggest takeaways for me from being there was that I was listening to these guys, I was watching them, I was hearing these big deals, and it brought, I think, a calm to me in that, these guys can do it, although they have way more resources than I can. That I could do it. And so it just made some something that would seem so daunting before just made it seem a lot more easily accessible for, I won't say the average person, but more or less the average person. And so I think that fear or those limiting beliefs. Were removed for me because I was seeing these transactions day in day out part of my job was reviewing leases so I would see these leases from all different Retailers and just getting a better understanding of what's involved You know some of those inputs in leases and so that had a huge impact on me And I think my perspective more than anything else. So it really just made me a lot more comfortable to know that, yes, I can actually do this. And, maybe not purchase a hundred million dollar building, obviously to start out with, but understanding that if you put the work in, you put the time in, you really focus on mindset and it can be achievable. That was really one of the big lessons learned from working at at at that rate. And then I would say from there, I was recruited to go to MPAC, Municipal Property Assessment Corporation. I really don't tell people that I used to work there because every party I go to or any function, they'd ask, that, you do the whole, so what do you do for a living? And then, if I say MPAC, the first thing I get would be, oh, you're the company that's increasing my property taxes. But

Stephen: 8:53

It's only bad news,

Brian: 8:54

Yeah, it's always bad news. It's always bad news. Never good news. But one of the things I really, honed in on my skills. There was surprisingly was really relationship building, like for me, I'm naturally a relationship person and my role there wasn't from a property evaluation perspective, although that was my educational background was really focused on stakeholder relations. So working with city councilors city officials mirrors and so on. And, Stephen, I'm sure you'll probably agree with me when I say this, at least to some degree that. Although real estate is brick and mortar, I believe it's really more about relationships with other investors, with your team and so on, and even getting deals. Or access to deals and being one of the first people to get access to deals. So really being able to hone in my relationships, skills and abilities has served me really well through work at MPAC. And of course, just having a better understanding of valuation and how properties are valued, more so commercial properties, again, has done quite a bit for me.

Stephen: 9:54

Yeah. That's awesome. And that makes a lot of sense. I think relationships are everything, right? Because the technical skills are one thing, but going out there and building trust with people. And again, getting back to surrounding yourself with like minded people to push each other, I think is excellent as well. But yeah, that definitely resonates with me in terms of the relationships. It makes a lot of sense. I wanted to ask you to, so moving forward, then you've got this career in, in, in real estate, you're taking on different roles. You're understanding assessments, you're working with, larger organizations such as MPAC. And then maybe talk a little bit more about. How that evolved into your personal sort of real estate investing strategy. Was it, I, you talked about your early influences from your mother and, moving that forward, but how did that sort of evolve in your, your real estate investing did it, Did you have a, an initial strategy early on and you kept it going or did it evolve as you went and you surrounded yourself with other people doing bigger deals and maybe talk a little bit about the evolution of that over the years.

Brian: 10:55

sure. So initially I would say I was very unsophisticated, although yes, I had diplomas and degrees and so on in property assessment taxation, but I think we all know theory is one thing and taking actions another. And so when I went to the real estate group. I saw what a lot of the investors were doing and six, seven or eight years ago, one of the big strategies or more popular strategies was a duplex conversions. And so I need, I saw other people that were doing really successful executing that strategy and I was like, okay, so I'll start with that strategy. And they were also doing it in Durham. And so I said, okay, I'm going to do it in Durham, right? No strategy behind it, not looking at fundamentals and all that stuff that I do now. And so I took the plunge. I purchased my first Single family detached property in Oshawa and started the process. So what was supposed to be a two or three month project, just adding a legal secondary suite ended up taking me 10 months. It was an absolute nightmare. It I

Stephen: 11:55

all had those. Yeah,

Brian: 11:57

all had those. And now I look back, it was a blessing in disguise because that's probably the project I've learned the most on. over my past eight or nine years, but a lot of things popped up that I couldn't that, that I couldn't foresee, but I also made a lot of rookie mistakes, right? I hired a friend of mine that was a contractor, but he wasn't a investor focused contractor that had the expertise of completing a legal basement apartment. And so one of the things I would also tell your listeners is that always focus in my opinion when you build your team is make sure that your team. Are really focused on are really investor focused, meaning the real estate agent that you work with has a high portion of their clients that are investors. Your appraiser should be investor focused. Your contractor should be able to execute the strategy that you're looking to execute. So whether it's a duplex conversion, whether it's a value add for multifamily. They need to have a large portion of their business focused in that area. But anyway again, the project took about 10 months. It was successful. Fortunate for me, the market was going up quite a bit. I did finish the project. And again, but because there were so many mistakes, I was able to learn a ton and, being able to maneuver through different things, dealing with the city and so on. And then from there, I realized that, okay, I did it. I finished it at, yes, it was a stressful process, but, now I'll move on to the next one. So I kept on buying, single family that attach properties in the Durham area that's executed the same strategy, the old fashioned duplex conversion, and that worked extremely well. But Stephen, I'm sure as you can imagine, all strategies don't work forever. And so I had to pivot and look at other options. And so that's where I started really thinking. Okay, I think I became a lot more sophisticated, really looking at the fundamentals on different neighborhoods, what makes a good neighborhood honing in on a different strategy and really having to pivot and moving to a different strategy. And I can talk more about some of the other projects I've worked on if you want.

Stephen: 14:04

for sure. Yeah, I think so. That's a good sort of snapshot. What I maybe wanted to focus on next was how. That experience and how those initial experiences and the career stuff and the investing, how did that eventually lead to you starting a college course and wanting to help others get into real estate or just learn whether or not it's right for them, maybe talk a little bit about that. And then we can branch off from there.

Brian: 14:32

Sure. So great question. And I can, a lot of people ask me that, why do you teach? And if I can go back to when I was young, fresh and green, my early twenties internet wasn't as popular back then, so we were all reading books, Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, among other books. I remember a friend of mine, we went to London for a Rich Dad seminar and spent, I don't know, thousands of dollars back then. But my point is that I never had anyone that I could go to as a mentor back then. Internet wasn't readily accessible back then. There just wasn't a lot of information available on how to become an investor. What type of strategy to use and so on so I really had no guidance and my parents were both immigrants to the country so we weren't well connected in terms of saying, hey, why don't you go to uncle go and you know he's an investor and he's got multiple properties. Why don't you talk to him. And so it was very different back then. So that mentorship wasn't there. And so I've always said to myself that one day I want to be able to have the opportunity to help younger individuals or even just new investors and provide that guidance. So I had a chat with a friend of mine last year, telling him, this is what I want to do. I want to create a course, teach it at college. And he said, I think that's a great idea. And he connected me with the Dean of George Brown college. We had a couple of conversations. He thought it was a great idea. And, a year and a bit later, I've been teaching an introductory real estate investment course at George Brown. And I purposely made it an introductory course, again, to give folks a chance to The opportunity to make their way into the real estate industry and to, to understand how to do it, the real fundamentals on how to become an investor. And that's really why I focused it for that introductory at that introductory level.

Stephen: 16:21

Awesome. And so how long have you been doing it now?

Brian: 16:24

So this is my third semester. I take the summer off and this is my third semester. So actually I just had my first class two days ago for this semester, first class for the semester.

Stephen: 16:34

the semester. And so talk a little bit about how the course was received. You don't, you do see a lot of seminars and conferences and different things like that, but I think it's a lot less common to see college courses, teaching people how to invest in real estate. There's probably a lot of courses teaching people how to get into careers in real estate, various aspects, but maybe just talk a little bit about, how it was received and what are your students saying? And what's some of the feedback that you're getting,

Brian: 17:02

Yeah, and so I remember I went to a mastermind a year ago, and I was at the mastermind, I was telling some of the other members there that I was thinking about doing a college course, and a couple people said to me, why do a college course and tie your name to a local college, just do a workshop, you're the brand, people are going to come there to see you, and to hear what you have to say, and I got discouraged, but I still decided to move forward. And. It's been very well received and the class continues to grow, so I've gotten a ton of great feedback. A lot of the people that are coming back to the course, or sorry, a lot of people that have taken the course are taking the course, are taking it because of referrals, which is amazing to see. So one of the first things I do in my first class is I say, Hey, how'd you hear about the course? And again, a lot of them have been referral based. And so it's really good to see that people are actually. Not only referring other people to the course, but they've really got something out of it. So I've had at least two or three students from every class actually take action and buy a property, which is really what I want to see, right? Like to me, that's, it's not just about educating yourself, but the real education comes from taking action. So to me, it, really near and dear to my heart when I hear students say that they've taken action and they've bought they bought a property. And so I've even done a couple meetups outside of class just for a coffee with some of my previous students to hear what they're doing, to provide further support to them. And again it's a really nice fuzzy feeling to hear students continuing on their journey and again, taking action. So I've gotten a ton of great feedback, which is great. And I continue to make, evolve the course, try to make it better based on some of the feedback that I've heard, but overall I would say it's been a success like this semester I have 21 students registered, which is great. And I hope the course continues to grow, not much more than 22 because, I'm a full time investor I have a full time job so it is demanding, but it's been great.

Stephen: 19:02

That's awesome. Yeah, I think that's amazing because for me, going back to the personal development stuff, getting somebody, we, you and I are both more advanced in our careers and looking at different strategies in terms of investing and things like that. And, Really, the major breakthrough comes from not doing anything to doing something or going from zero, investments to at least one and just starting down that path and taking that first step. It must be really rewarding just to see people, who maybe have been thinking about taking action or doing something, or maybe we're too afraid to do something before take that first step. And just. Move in the right direction and start getting in the game. That must be very rewarding for you.

Brian: 19:48

Yeah, it definitely is. And you're a hundred percent right. It's, and that was one of the things I tell my students, I tell them that after you take this 400 course, don't go and take another course. Don't spend 20, 000 to join a real estate group. Take action. And so one of the things I do for each of my students is I give them three hours of my time outside of class. just to provide that additional support because I'm sure we've all been there before where we go to a seminar, we go to a workshop, we're all excited and pumped up, and then we get home and we're, we don't know where to go from there. And because I've experienced that myself is one of the reasons why I tell my students, I'll give you again three hours of my time to ask questions and so on. And it has helped

Stephen: 20:33

Yeah,

Brian: 20:34

my students journey.

Stephen: 20:35

Yeah. So maybe talk a little bit about the outline for the course, what are some of the topics people are going to learn about how, in depth you get with some of the strategies, or is it just more of, getting to know what the components are and what things you should think about? And maybe just do a little overview of the course, if you could.

Brian: 20:53

Sure. So I start off real with the basics. I'll talk about, why invest in real estate high level. I talk about the, how do you know which market to invest in? And I start at a very high level. So I'll start with North America, specifically really Canada in the U. S., not Mexico, just Canada and the U. S. And I start looking at the broad fundamentals, right? So I look at all the key indicators that I look for when investing in a particular market, right? So GDP growth, population growth some of those fundamentals, making sure that they're. paying attention to those things. And then I drill down from, Canada, the U. S., right down to Canada, to the province, to the municipality, and then right down to the neighborhood, right? Again, how to choose a specific neighborhood, how to look at rents, and so on. So I do all those macro economic fundamentals, and I drill it right down to the micro. But I think it's very important, because in my mind, as long as you choose the right neighborhood. I think that's more than half the battle and eventually your investment will do well. So again, that's one of the areas I focus on and then I focus on three or four different strategies. So I will, I will tweak it depending on what's currently working. So I will go step by step, how to purchase a property and then how, and go right into how to convert it into a legal duplex. I'll do that with short term rental. high level multifamily, but I really don't go into details because it is an introductory course, but I will review three or four different strategies, step by step. I will also talk about some of the things I touched on earlier about the importance of surrounding yourself with people. So joining a group of people, Real estate investment group. So I'll give a couple options. I'll talk about that. And then I also do a bit on mindset and personal development. Cause again, things that I feel are very important is focusing on mindset, personal development, and then also really talking about goal setting. So why are you investing in real estate? Cause one of the first things you hear is financial freedom. I want to quit my day job. And as it's very difficult to quit your day job. as a real estate investor, at least in the beginning. So I try to set those expectations on, and give examples of what real estate has done for me and to be realistic about your timeline. So again, it's really the fundamentals, macroeconomics, reviewing three or four different strategies step by step. And then I also bring in several subject matter experts because although I've been investing for, At least eight or nine years. I'm not an expert in every strategy. So I will bring in a property manager because I don't manage my properties. I'll bring in a property manager. I'll bring in a paralegal. I'll bring in a real estate investor focused agent. I'll bring in a mortgage broker to have a conversation. So they could provide value to my students on what they're great at. And then that's more or less the course outline. And then I will also tweak it depending on what my students are looking for. So again, the first class I say to my students, what are you trying to get out of this course? Tell me one or two things that you really want to get out of this course. And so if one of my students say, I want to learn about investing in cottages, then I'll bring in probably an expert, right? As long as there's a common theme for multiple students, I'll bring in an expert to do that.

Stephen: 24:11

Excellent. And who do you see taking the course? Is this a variety of people across the board? Is it professionals? Is it people just, starting out their careers, who are you seeing in the classes?

Brian: 24:23

I would say if you look at the demographics, you're probably seeing people from age 30 to age 60, and most of them are not actual students. They have a full time job, they have a family, they are Either own their principal residence or they're renting and thinking about, either investing or buying their own principal residence, you have professionals, my last class I had a doctor so you have, you really have a wide variety of people and I'd say the average age is probably closer to 40. so, yeah. So it's a diverse group of people. I have students in Calgary, which is pretty awesome. I have a student in the East Coast. So it's throughout Canada.

Stephen: 25:10

Oh, okay. So it's all online

Brian: 25:12

Yeah. It's all online. Unfortunately I couldn't do it. I could do it in person, but it would just take up too much time just

Stephen: 25:17

sure. Oh, that's excellent. Yeah. So you can benefit people from across the country. That's awesome. Yeah. Okay, cool. Maybe shifting gears a little bit back to talking about let's say you're investing strategy and what you're seeing out there in the market I'd love to talk to you a bit about, what Maybe we'll call them smaller residential investors are looking at in the market today, and I know that a few years ago, it was a lot easier to get into the market, make properties cash flow interest rates are obviously much lower a few years back and now they've gone up. So I just see the market has changed a lot for people who are. Maybe thinking about getting into smaller scale, residential real estate investing. So maybe talk a little bit about what some of the strategies are looking like now, and are people having to be a lot more creative in what they're doing and maybe just share your experiences there.

Brian: 26:13

So the market, as Stephen, is very different than it was even just two years ago. Again, you could, you can create, you can easily buy a duplex, sorry, buy a single family home, a semi detached, add a legal secondary suite, the property, you refinance and you pull out 100, 000, 150, 000, the property with cash flow, maybe 100, but, you do your, run your pro forma correctly, you're fine. That ship has sailed, unfortunately, unless you go to markets like Belleville, Peterborough and further out, and my investment strategy is I like, I prefer to stay in primary markets, so to go to Belleville for me is not, it's not really an option, so I've had to pivot because A, to your point, interest rates have increased substantially, And so what used to work before again isn't working now. So some of the things that I'm currently working on is I'm currently building is really looking at my portfolio to see where I can intensify my existing portfolio. So what do I mean by that? So I own a triplex in the city of Toronto. And I'm currently building a garden suite on it. And what I'm doing though is, which works, is I'm converting the existing detached garage into a one bedroom apartment. And roughly all in, it'll cost me about 160, 000. It's on the final stages of of being done, but the numbers work. It makes sense. Whereas I know other investors are building garden suites from scratch and they're paying anywhere from 350, 000 to upwards of half a million. And I have friends that are building it. So these are real numbers that that I'm quoting here. And so when you look at spending 350 to a half a million on a garden suite, the numbers really don't make sense. You get. In my opinion, you could probably deploy that capital elsewhere but spending 160, 000, getting anywhere from 2, 000 to 2, 400 a month rent plus utilities does make sense to me. And so that's why I'm looking at opportunities where I can intensify my existing portfolio. Another area I'm looking at specifically in the City of Toronto is taking advantage of the new bylaw where you can build four plus one, so four units in one property and build a garden suite. So I'm looking at a number of deals where I can do that once my garden suite's done. And as far as Canada, that's the only type of investing I'm doing. I'm also working on a flip with investors in Cleveland, Ohio, and that's strictly just for flipping. And I'm also now doing research in Atlanta for single family detached properties, but those will be long term holds. So those are the three strategies that I'm currently working on right now that I still think make sense. I tell my students, if you don't own a home, maybe that's a great way to get started doing a house hack, putting in a legal basement apartment and making the numbers work that way. Or maybe going to one of those secondary markets like Belleville. If you're comfortable with the with the fundamentals or Peterborough and then still doing a legal duplex. But right now the market Isn't anywhere near as good as it was two or three years ago. So prices I feel have stabilized a bit, but I think we're going to need to see at least six to 12 months at a minimum before prices stabilized and start to go up. And that's really going to be as a result of interest rates continuing to come down.

Stephen: 29:43

Yeah, for sure. I agree. I think the markets changed a lot. I see, and I think when I was first hearing about garden suites to your point there, several years back, I thought that's a great concept. We're going to be able to use this excess land on these, bigger lots that are in a lot of these older neighborhoods. And, this is going to be great. And it's going to be this big investment vehicle. And I still think it has a lot of merits. Thanks. But the reality of all of the red tape here in Ontario and all of the kind of development challenges and the cost of building, that's really hampered a lot of, I think, a lot of the opportunities for investors to provide quality rental housing here in this province, because it is just such a struggle, I think, to get these things built.

Brian: 30:29

Yeah, and you're absolutely right. I had dinner with a couple of friends. They work for some of the largest companies, real estate companies in Canada, and they told me that they've paused their development, just about 90 percent of their development pipeline. And it's because of exactly what you mentioned, construction costs, development charges, and of course, interest rates. People talk about affordable housing, my, my thought is that we'll never have affordable housing in the GTA. And probably most major cities. It's just not possible because of development charges, cost of labor and cost of material, the numbers just don't work.

Stephen: 31:13

what are you seeing in terms of investors looking elsewhere? So I think, I was talking with our friend Quinton D'Souza the other day, and, he's obviously investing in other markets and helping people to look elsewhere. Again, consider markets like Florida, for example. People are looking down there for cashflow opportunities, different investing strategies down there. So are you seeing that in the market as well, and maybe through some of your students looking to invest down in the States or even in other provinces where it's a lot more landlord friendly.

Brian: 31:43

Absolutely. And I found that a little shocking actually from my students, right? I hear that from investors. Absolutely. But I would say at least 30 percent of my students do not want to invest in Ontario at all. And they're either looking at Calgary or outright the States. And so I've actually had to pivot my curriculum to accommodate that. So last class, sorry, last semester I brought in, cause I'm not an expert in investing in the States at all. I've just started doing research over the past four months. So I brought in. Who I felt was an expert who's been investing in the States for at least the past eight or nine years to have that conversation and to provide information to my students. So a lot of students are looking Texas, Florida. Again, I'm looking at Atlanta and working in Cleveland right now. But yeah, there is a huge appetite for the States on a whole.

Stephen: 32:36

Okay.

Brian: 32:36

it's because a lot of the things that we talked about, landlord there are a lot more landlord friendly, I think we can go on and on about the benefits of investing in the States.

Stephen: 32:44

For sure. What I'm interested about Cleveland, what sort of led you to that market? Is it just the accessibility of it? Or is it the certain market dynamics that are going on there?

Brian: 32:54

Sure. So the same individual that I had on my class and that's been investing, that's one of the areas he's invested quite, quite a bit. And typically he'll flip properties. And for long term goals, I wouldn't invest in Cleveland. Like I don't think the are that great to be quite frank, but for active income for quick flips. The, the price point is pretty good. So our model is we'll buy a property. So a group of us, it's a group of investors. We'll buy a property for a hundred, 130, 000 us. We'll buy it cash. We'll spend 30 to 40, 000 on rentals and we'll list it. And so it's just a matter of rinse and repeat. The idea is not to get rich at all because it's a group of, it's a group of investors, but it does allow us to have some active income. Nothing crazy. I think really for me, it's some fun money. So when I travel to the States or other areas, I don't have to change us dollars. So you're definitely not going to get rich from it. And it's something I just wanted to try to see if the model worked. So we just finished our first flip and it was actually listed last week. So we'll see what happens. Sure.

Stephen: 34:01

Awesome. That's great. You're branching out. It's I hear, as I said, I hear about a lot of people either looking or actively investing down in the States now just for more opportunities. So I'm always interested to hear people's experiences and, I think. I think it's a necessity of what's going on here. The market characteristics right now on the residential side on the small scale, residential side are just not favorable, right? So people have to look elsewhere, they've got to keep their money working for them. I think that's great that people are looking at different strategies and different markets to to keep their money moving. That's for sure. Okay, so maybe switching gears here, Brian, a little bit. I wanted to talk a bit more about personal development side. As I was saying, I was checking out your Instagram and you've got a lot of cool posts about some of the stuff you've been doing to challenge yourself. Some of the mountain climbing. I know you recently did an adventure to Everest base camp, I think. And before that it was Kilimanjaro. You've got some really cool posts about that and what you're doing to push yourself. So I'd love it if you could just talk a little bit about that and maybe what led you to say, okay, yeah, that's something I want to challenge myself with. And, how did that sort of come about?

Brian: 35:12

So as we talked about earlier, I'm a big believer in personal development. And so every other year I will hire a business coach, a mentor, et cetera. And I did that last year. And as we were planning our 2023, I think it was, yeah, 2023 sat in his office and he said, okay, Brian, I want you to focus on these four key areas. And one of the areas were. physical and mental health. And he said, so I want you to challenge yourself. I want you to do something that's going to make you extremely uncomfortable. And you figure out what that is. So I remember I was in Costa Rica with my buddy Quinton, maybe a month before that. And Quinton told me he was climbing Mount Kilimanjaro. And I was like, I gave him the, Oh, good for you. And the eye roll.

Stephen: 35:59

Let me know how that goes.

Brian: 36:00

Yeah, basically, and anyway, so fast forward a month and a half later, when I had that discussion with my mentor, I messaged Quintin right away. And I said, Hey, Quintin, I remember you telling me, my client, is there any room? And he's, he said, no. And then he messaged me back a week later, someone had dropped out. So I signed up immediately and started training. I never slept. I've never climbed a mountain. I'm not a hiker. I've never slept in a tent. And, but, so I was like, Absolutely a newbie rookie. I had to spend hundreds of dollars, thousands of dollars on equipment and all that good stuff. But but anyway I trained, I did altitude training, I obviously had to go to the gym and to get myself ready, but it was an absolutely amazing experience. It really pushed me way past my comfort zone. I remember the last night or last 24 hours when we were summiting, I got extremely sick because of altitude sickness. And it was a huge struggle. What should have taken me probably 12 or so hours ended up taking me about 20 hours because I was literally going step by step because I was so weak, sick. I thought I was going to faint. I thought I was going to throw up. It was a huge struggle for me, but but it allowed me to do a lot of soul searching. It, it really got, it, it made with me, I would definitely say mentally stronger and It I was very appreciative for that experience.

Stephen: 37:27

that's amazing. Yeah. I'm thinking about some of those posts you put in. You literally you're gasping. You're okay. And we met, I could, I, you could feel the pressure and the exhaustion that you had, but that's awesome. That's so good that you did that.

Brian: 37:40

Yeah. Yeah. And I tell people, sorry, go ahead.

Stephen: 37:43

No. Go ahead.

Brian: 37:44

I tell people that, I'm not, I enjoy hiking. I think it's great. I enjoy the social aspect more than anything else, but I try to encourage people to do anything. It doesn't matter what it is that's going to make them uncomfortable. And because I truly believe when you put yourself in purposely in uncomfortable situations that it will build resilience and it will help you to become a better parent a better business partner. Just, I think just a better person in general, regardless of what area, it doesn't have to be business. It could be anything. One of the things I've taken away from that is I every year now I do at least three or four things that's going to make me extremely uncomfortable. And again, it's not just climbing a mountain like I'm doing a Spartan in a couple months. So just whatever it is, just try to do something purposefully that's going to make you extremely uncomfortable.

Stephen: 38:31

Excellent. And then I also see you're active with mastermind groups. Maybe talk a little bit about that and how that sort of. Challenges you and helps you in what you're doing.

Brian: 38:41

Yeah, so one of the things I has been that's been very beneficial for me is joining a mastermind group, I would say outside of joining a real estate group. Once you become, I think, better known in the community, those opportunities present themselves. And so an investor that I've known for, actually that same investor that I met probably eight years ago at that multifamily conference, he invited me to join a mastermind with six or seven other investors throughout Ontario. And it's been such a huge positive experience for me. Sitting down, so we would meet once a month, we would meet in a hotel in Durham and we would talk about challenges, opportunities, and we would all feed into each other on how we could support each other with, with whatever problems or challenges we're facing. And that's actually where I got the idea to build a garden suite because the guy that was sitting right beside me, he was building a garden suite, but not just a garden suite, he was converting it. Detached garage into a garden suite and he was on the second conversion and I was like, Hey, Scott, that's a great idea. Tell me a bit more. And he started walking me through it. I had a couple of calls with him. And so again, if you have the opportunity to join a mastermind, you don't need to spend tens of thousands of dollars. This mastermind I was invited into it's free. Mine is paying for the hotel, but again, surrounding yourself around like minded people who are either where you want to be or. That are where you are, it will pay spades in terms of your personal development, your growth. It's, I can't say enough about being a part of a mastermind. Sure.

Stephen: 40:20

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay. Maybe switching gears here again looking forward to the future, Brian. Maybe talk a little bit about what your plans are. I know you're you've recently switched jobs in your career and obviously. You're continuing to own and manage your portfolio of real estate, but I'd love it if you could just talk a little bit more about what coming down the pipe and maybe what some of your goals are going forward.

Brian: 40:47

So I think the market in the midterm will get better. What I don't think is going to get better, at least in Canada, is The overall long term fundamentals. I think we're going to see increased pressures on rental providers. I think regulation is going to increase from the Ontario landlord tenant board. I think there's going to be greater expenses for landlords, whether it's increased property taxes, more fees, etc. I think we all know productivity in Canada is lagging. And I love absolutely love and adore Canada. Canada has done. A lot for myself and my family, but I think there are a lot of challenges in Canada which is why I don't see myself buying any long term holes in Ontario going forward. It would just be the small land development deals that I can build and sell, and then the bulk of my actual long term holes will be in the States, specifically Atlanta suburbs. And that's, so that's where I'm going to be focusing on really over the next. I'd say 36 months. And then, I have a huge passion for travel. I'll continue to do that. And I have my course now at George Brown that, again, I was hoping to cap it at 10, but again, I have, I think I'm 21 students. So I, for me, I reached my goal and I just want to continue to add value to students, to other people. And again, I'm a relationship person. So I love these conversations. I love, I enjoy camaraderie with my students and I'm going to continue to. Make my class better and just, move in that direction.

Stephen: 42:27

Yeah, that's awesome. Do you see maybe a second course being added on, like maybe advanced strategies or is it the goal is to give everybody this sort of maybe jumpstart into real estate or do you see that evolving into two other courses as well?

Brian: 42:42

I don't because, again, my goal was just to help people. I really don't do this for the money. I can assure you, George Mountain doesn't play that well. It's really for, it's really not worth my time to be quite frank, but it's really to give people that opportunity. And that's why I'm doing it. And I feel that I've met my goal by being able to give folks that jumpstart. There's a lot of smart people out there like yourself, Stephen, that can create an advanced course or that have advanced courses. And so that's not for me, this is a, I would say a pet project that's near and dear to my heart. Selling a course for more advanced students is not, it's not really my focus and it's not really what I want to do.

Stephen: 43:22

No, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. As I said, I think the. The maximum benefit, though, comes from getting those people from doing nothing to something. So that that makes sense for sure. Okay, so Brian, as we're wrapping up I just wanted to ask, if you wanted to share any links or information or where can people find out more about you and what you're up to.

Brian: 43:42

Some people can find me at on Instagram at acquiring underscore wisdom, or they can find me on LinkedIn, just type in Brian Gordon or on Facebook, Brian Gordon. But one of the best places to get a hold of me is acquiring wisdom, acquiring underscore wisdom. I usually check it a couple of times a day so you can message me. Always happy to have a chat. And yeah, I love the real estate industry. I love talking about real estate. So always happy to hop on a call and chat with potential investors.

Stephen: 44:11

Okay. Sounds good. Yeah. And we'll make sure to put those in the show notes as well. So people can can connect with you that way. All right. So finally, just wanted to say, really enjoyed the conversation today, Brian. It's I really appreciate your insights and and thanks very much for coming on.

Brian: 44:24

You're welcome. It's been an awesome experience and hopefully your listeners have taken one or two things away. And again, please take action. And cause that's what creates traction. So again, thanks for having me.

Stephen: 44:37

All right. Thanks, Brian. So hope you got some value out of this podcast episode. I invite you to and subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, leave a comment let us know what you think and for any other information about us, what we're doing. And the types of investments we're into. Please visit focuscapital. ca, focuscapital. ca. And on there, you can find a ton of information, additional podcasts, and a lot of free resources. That's it for this podcast episode. Bye for now.

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Transcribed by https: otter. ai