#13 From Burnout to Breakthrough: Transformative Leadership Lessons with Christin Marvin

In this episode of Restaurant Leaders Unplugged, we’re thrilled to host Christin Marvin, influential leadership coach, author of The Hospitality Leader's Roadmap, and founder of Solutions by Christin. Christin opens up about her transformative journey in the hospitality industry—from her early days as a line cook to scaling restaurant groups, facing burnout, and becoming a sought-after coach for independent restaurant owners.

Christin shares:

• The emotional toll of burnout and how to overcome it
• The crucial difference between management and leadership
• Practical tools to create a positive, mentally fit work culture
• How to balance personal growth while leading a team
• Insights into navigating the future of restaurants in a changing industry

Packed with real-life stories, valuable leadership lessons, and actionable advice, this episode is a must-listen for restaurant leaders looking to empower their teams and themselves.

Her podcast: https://www.solutionsbychristin.me/podcast
Her book: https://www.solutionsbychristin.me/book
Social media links: Instagram, LinkedIn
https://www.instagram.com/solutionsbychristin/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christin-marvin/
Website: https://www.solutionsbychristin.me/

Restaurant Leaders Unplugged with Sebastian Stahl

Follow us on social media to stay updated:

Instagram: @sebastian_stahlb | @breadthrestaurantmarketing
YouTube: @SebastianStahlb

Subscribe, share, and leave a review to help other restaurant leaders find us!

Transcript

Christina Marvin - Transcript

(0:00 - 0:22)

My favorite coach, Rich Litman, always says, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And there's a chapter in my book about this, hiring people that are smarter than you. If you are putting yourself in a position where you know you don't know everything, and that you're going to hire people with specific skill sets, so that you can all learn and grow together, and you can leave your ego at the door, you're going to be way more successful than coming in there thinking that you know everything.

(0:22 - 0:27)

Because nobody's going to respect that. Nobody wants to work with somebody like that. That's awful, right? People want collaboration.

(0:27 - 0:38)

They want to be challenged. They want to be empowered to have their voices heard and present new ideas. Welcome to the Restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast, where real talks with restaurant leaders take center stage.

(0:39 - 0:51)

Discover the challenges and victories that define success in the culinary world. Dive into essential strategies from marketing to operations and gain insights that will transform your approach to your restaurant business. Don't just keep up, lead the way.

(0:52 - 1:00)

Join me, your host, Sebastian Stahl, on this journey to excellence. Christine, welcome to the Restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast. It's really a pleasure to have you here.

(1:00 - 1:08)

And again, just I know you have a lot of insights and experience that I'm really excited to share with our audience. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me.

(1:09 - 1:18)

We've been having a lot of fun the last couple hours for everybody listening. So I'm excited about our conversation. Yeah, yeah, we've been trying to figure some tech stuff out.

(1:18 - 1:32)

But anyways, yeah, so let's get started, Christine. I mean, for the people that don't know you, Christine, that don't know what you do, tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do now, your company. And then we're going to move into learning a little bit more about your backstory, because I know you have a very interesting story.

(1:33 - 1:38)

Yeah, absolutely. So I have a company called Solutions by Kristen. I am an influential coach.

(1:38 - 1:53)

I work one-on-one with independent restaurant owners and operators. I also do leadership workshops for those restaurant groups or single unit locations. My mission is really to provide as many leadership resources as available to people.

(1:53 - 2:12)

So leadership development resources. I do that through a lot of LinkedIn content every day, newsletters once a week on my website, and then my podcast, which is No Hesitations, and my book that just came out, The Hospitality Leaders Roadmap. So I'm in this content creator mode, which I didn't really understand was a thing.

(2:12 - 2:28)

And I guess that's what I am now, in addition to a coach, but a coach at heart and here to support the industry. That's fantastic. Well, listen, it's the only way to really get the word out there of the value that we can bring to our audience, which I think, you know, talk to similar people, but anyways, it's just so glad to have you here, Kristen.

(2:29 - 2:44)

So Kristen, tell us a little bit about your background. I know you've been in the hospitality industry since you were 15 years old. What drew you to the industry and how did those experiences shape your career? Yeah, I mean, I started as a line cook at 15 years old, and obviously it was my first job.

(2:44 - 2:57)

I didn't really know that that was what was gonna lead me on this path to doing this for a career. And I tried the retail gig a little bit in high school and I found it incredibly boring. I was piercing baby's ears and it was just awful.

(2:57 - 3:10)

It was an awful experience. I'll never do that again. And when I graduated high school, I moved out to Colorado and I got a job serving and bartending at Outback Steakhouse, which this was 1999.

(3:11 - 3:21)

And so it was all the rage. And I was working in the busiest location in the state of Colorado. And my first night out of training behind the bar, there was a Matchbox 20 concert next door at the World Arena.

(3:22 - 3:33)

And they put me in a well. And for two hours, I just got my ass handed to me. I was just sticky, covered in syrup and peach schnapps and margarita mix and beers.

(3:34 - 3:45)

And after that rush and everybody left for the concert, the whole restaurant was destroyed, right? The bar was destroyed. I took a step back and I just said, I don't know what that was, but I'm hooked. I want more of that.

(3:47 - 3:56)

So I'm an introverted girl from the Midwest. So that whole experience was just eye-opening to me. I'd never worked that hard in a brief amount of time and made that kind of money.

(3:56 - 4:17)

So I was hooked and worked my way up through the ranks and fine dining in a hotel for five years and just was really hungry to be a GM by 24 and then managing partner by 30. And then I loved the independent space. And then I ended up jumping on with a restaurant group that was independently owned and went to private equity.

(4:17 - 4:28)

And we grew from six to 48 locations in seven years. And completely burned myself out and then became an entrepreneur. That's a long and short of it.

(4:28 - 4:43)

That's a pretty quick story of everything that happened. So tell us a little bit about that story, right, Kristen? Because I think in the restaurant industry, it's very particular about, you know, of course, we're gonna talk about leadership and all these things. And I think what you just mentioned, burnout, it's something I think a lot of us go through it in this industry.

(4:44 - 4:58)

And it's still a problem due to culture, I guess, restaurant culture. I think it's changing for sure. But tell me a little bit about your experience when you went through those years and the transformation that you went through and the insights that you got from this burnout experience you were talking about.

(4:58 - 5:11)

Yeah, you know what? It was a really long process for me. I did not know or was willing to admit that I was burnout until many years after I was going through burnout. I had a view, not a lot of people were talking about burnout in the industry.

(5:12 - 5:26)

And I probably would have never admitted it because I saw it as a sign of weakness. You know, I used to be super judgmental in my years kind of growing up in the industry. If you bitched about how hard you were working or you weren't reliable for me, that meant you didn't have it.

(5:26 - 5:39)

You couldn't cut it in this industry. And that is the wrong, as we know today, that's the wrong mindset to have. I loved the independent space and I've had the pleasure of opening 13 restaurants in my career, many of those different concepts.

(5:39 - 6:15)

But I loved the creativity and the innovation and the empowerment of the independent space. Being able to open different concepts and be in a leadership role and quickly identify pain points and develop systems to make those operations really streamlined and see a lot of success in that was part of my core and part of who I was and part of my values and I didn't know it at the time. So when I went to jump on with Snooze A.M. Eatery was the name of the company and we started exploding and just rapidly opening the same concept over and over again, I wasn't in love with that.

(6:15 - 6:36)

It wasn't very exciting to me. There was a huge shift happening because I used to be in a position where I could identify the problems and call the shots. And now what happens, which is just natural when a company grows like that, you build this huge corporate office of 20, 30, 40, 50 people.

(6:36 - 6:50)

And so all of a sudden you're learning about all the KPIs and you're getting all these directives from all these different departments. So the agenda was very much being fed to me, not something that I could identify and make an impact in. So that was part of it.

(6:50 - 7:18)

I'd also really struggled with my direct leadership report for about three years and there was a lot of lack of trust and respect and communication in that relationship. And so I let that impact my confidence and instead of developing myself, which I'd always done in the past, I leaned on the company and thought the KPIs were more of where the development was coming from. And I started to drink really heavily to cover up that stress and that unhappiness in my job.

(7:18 - 7:32)

And so I left and ended up leaving finally. And I went to work for a local ice cream company that still has extraordinary leadership. And they had six locations.

(7:32 - 7:37)

They wanted to keep it locally owned. They wanted to expand to 20. And I did that through the pandemic.

(7:37 - 7:53)

And then I realized I was just doing the same thing over and over and over and over again. And that's when I really raised my hand to myself and looked at myself in the mirror and said, there's a problem. You're covering it up with alcohol.

(7:53 - 7:57)

You can't live like this. This is really dangerous. You need to get your shit together.

(7:58 - 8:12)

And I started working with a coach and it was through that moment of just slowing down and starting to invest in myself again. I gave myself enough space to say, you've been burning out. This is exactly why you need to change your environment.

(8:13 - 8:36)

You need to get back to your core values. And I had to figure out what those were because I'd never done that work before. And then I just realized through that work and transformation that I wanted to help as many people as I can in the industry that were going through something similar and make sure that I could kind of share my knowledge and words of caution for people so that they didn't turn around and do the same thing.

(8:36 - 8:44)

Wow. Wow, Kristen. So that's interesting that you mentioned that I haven't shared this with you, but I went through a similar circumstance in terms of the drinking, the drug use and all that stuff.

(8:45 - 9:06)

You know, one of my early years in the restaurant industry, in my case, it was due to many different things, not just a burnout, but I mean, definitely had a big impact on that. And it's just such an easy reach, right? And you know, when I was, I've been sober for a long time, but really in my restaurant days later, a lot of team members, that was a recurring issue. And they would come to me to talk to them about these things.

(9:06 - 9:27)

But I think what you're doing in really providing the tools and helping people avoid these pitfalls, it's fantastic because I think it's gotten better again, what we're seeing, but it's so easy to fall into that. It's so easy access. And like that culture of like working 80 hours or whatever it is that you're working, it's just not a good way to live.

(9:27 - 10:04)

So, you know, when you got out of that and now transition into the other company, what are some of the challenges that you face there and learnings in that they made you actually get out of that and really go into what you do now? I mean, when I started working in the ice cream world, I started working with Gen Z, you know, we had six locations opened up one more, 30 to 60 employees per location. I had taken not a break from drinking. I had cut back on my drinking in order to focus on the position.

(10:04 - 10:14)

And then the pandemic meant I wasn't spending as much time in the shops. And so I was isolating myself and I started to feel more and more and more like a black sheep. And that was just all my own doing.

(10:14 - 10:27)

I was becoming this victim. I just didn't know who I was. And I think that, again, recognizing that I had stopped investing in myself over the years, I just completely felt like I was lost.

(10:27 - 10:36)

And raising my hand to say, I need some help with this. But I didn't know what that help was. My husband was going through this battle with sobriety, too.

(10:36 - 10:42)

So we were lucky to be in it together. But that's also really challenging. And we had tried AA.

(10:43 - 10:51)

Yeah, it is, right? We had tried AA. It wasn't a good fit for us. I've got a therapist, which is great and recommend everybody have one.

(10:51 - 11:09)

But the coaching for me really helped me focus on what I was dealing with in the present moment. And then what I needed to focus on in the future. And once I set that vision of where I wanted to go, just like I used to do back in the days with the restaurant industry and then in the independent space, I realized how much I loved the industry.

(11:10 - 11:33)

But I really recognize the environment that I was creating for myself was really, really toxic and dangerous. And that it was solely up to me to take control of that and to make a change. I made a commitment to myself to never be in a position again where I was working for someone that I was afraid of or didn't respect because life is too short.

(11:33 - 11:45)

And I think this is a wonderful company, but I kind of had this perception that I couldn't go anywhere else. And I wasn't going to be able to find something as good as what I had because salary was great. Benefits were great.

(11:45 - 11:55)

All the company initiatives were great. So I kind of let that fear make a lot of the lack of decision making, I guess, if you will. For what I was going to do next.

(11:56 - 11:58)

Yeah. I mean, it requires a lot of self-awareness. Look at that stuff.

(11:59 - 12:16)

Yeah. Painful. Yeah, it is.

It really is. It's been my experience as well. And I tend to find these things that at the beginning can feel shameful or whatever, like looking at these fears and these things that we have inside that are really stopping us from making the changes that we need to get better and to be better in so many ways.

(12:16 - 12:53)

Because now that you're in a leadership position and you were in the leadership position at that time as well, but for all the leaders out there as well, this is crucial, right? Because if you're not in a good place, how can you lead a team? Totally. They're looking up to you and you're basically filled with all of these feelings, all of this fear, all of this stuff, and you're not in a good headspace to be able to be a leader. So what are some of the things, Kristen, that with your experience at first that you identified in yourself and now that you're helping other people in leadership positions, what are some of the things that you help them identify that are red flags basically where they need to kind of step back? Yeah, there's so many, right? Which is beautiful.

(12:53 - 13:12)

We can start, depending on the person and their lifestyle, we can really start where people really need to start. So sometimes it's relationships. You know, I had that conversation with somebody yesterday and there was a toxic relationship in their world that they really needed to address and they were not ready to have the crucial conversation, but we worked through it and figured out how to help them get uncomfortable to have that conversation.

(13:13 - 13:29)

Sometimes it's lifestyle. I love to do an energy audit with clients of very simply on a piece of paper, left side, what is giving you energy, right side, what is draining you of energy and really taking a look again and understanding having that self-awareness of what am I doing? It could be what you're eating. It could be lack of exercise.

(13:29 - 13:49)

It could be how you're sleeping. It could be drinking too much, whatever the case is, right? Figuring out what things are really draining you and then one by one, making commitments to yourself and starting to cross those things off the list and changing behavior because it takes a lot of time. Another big thing that I do with all my clients is I focus a lot on positive intelligence.

(13:49 - 14:25)

So when I start working with people, I send them a link to an assessment and that assessment includes what we call saboteurs and there are 10 saboteurs in general, which are the negative thoughts that were formed during our childhood based on our upbringing, whether it was good or bad, tumultuous or in full harmony. Those thoughts cause all of your stress and frustration and anxiety and resentment. So those saboteurs can be somebody that's controlling, somebody that is a hyperachiever, which a lot of us are in the restaurant business because we get a lot of self-validation off of accomplishing a lot of things, making checklists and crossing things off.

(14:25 - 15:11)

A lot of us are people pleasers, which means we work really hard for our team and then we get resentful when we turn around in the restaurant and we see that we're working harder than them, right? Why aren't they following my lead? So we work really hard on getting aware of those negative thoughts and who they are, what saboteurs they are and then kind of putting some imagery to them. I'm getting a little woo-woo here, but and then figuring out how to help people manage those thoughts because those thoughts are not who we are, but they are informing our decisions and they're causing all of our unhappiness and we no longer need them as adults, but they're still there with us. So once we start understanding and we all have these, right? So hyperachiever is my number one, which also causes me to burn out.

(15:11 - 15:24)

So doing a lot, building a business, trying to create all these revenue streams, right? Everything's a shiny object. There's opportunity everywhere. If I continue to do that at a really unhealthy level, I'm gonna burn out very, very quickly.

(15:24 - 15:43)

So now when I get that physical urge to learn more and lean in and go, oh, I'm gonna focus on this or I wanna learn more about this and then I'm gonna start this project, right? As I speed up my speech, you can hear that. That's not sustainable. So I can catch myself now and go, nope, hyperachievers in the room, knock it off and change the behavior.

(15:44 - 15:57)

You just gave me a great piece of feedback here because you're describing me in many ways. And for sure, I know that cause of some of that stuff is validation and stuff that I might've not gotten as I needed it or whatever. Everybody has a story.

(15:57 - 16:09)

And then, so you're looking for that in the wrong places. And in that word, the overachiever perfectionism kind of kicks in. And perfectionism, the thing is that you can't disguise itself as something positive.

(16:10 - 16:17)

Or that, oh, and people refer to them as like that. Oh, I'm a perfectionist. Even on interviews, you know, and that's just like, oh, that's a positive.

(16:17 - 16:24)

What you're really telling me is that you're scared shitless. That's the truth. Then you're gonna people please yourself to death.

(16:24 - 16:29)

And the reason I'm saying this is because I've done it. I've been there, done that. And it's always driven by fear.

(16:29 - 16:41)

And one thing I read in this book, it's called Dare to Lead. I'm sure you've read it from Brainy Brown. And it's talking about this stuff with perfectionism, about how self-development is focused on self and improving yourself.

(16:41 - 16:58)

And then perfectionism is really focused on the other person, on other people. How am I going to do things better for you? So you like me better, you approve of me, right? And then you just continue to push yourself. And on that note, I remember, you just reminded me of the story at the beginning when I was in the restaurants and working with this other group when I was getting started.

(16:58 - 17:11)

I literally put myself through hell through working. And there was a complete grind culture because who could last longer? Right, last one standing, yeah. Yes, and like working Monday to Sunday.

(17:11 - 17:26)

And I always remember we were just, these guys were doing cocktail testing on a Sunday and I was sober already, like five years, something like that. And I was this close to going back out because of my inability to set boundaries. And it was just all driven by fear.

(17:27 - 17:44)

Kristen, now that you're an entrepreneur and like you're doing something completely different, how do you catch that in yourself? And for people that are listening, you know, for restauranteurs that they think that because it's a restaurant, you need to be there 24 seven. And they have all these things. If you're not there, it's gonna fail.

(17:44 - 17:57)

If you're not there, people are gonna steal. So there's, I guess, a loaded question. First, and how do you identify it in yourself? And then when you're working with restaurant owners that are starting out or maybe not starting out, how do you help them change this? Because it's so ingrained.

(17:58 - 18:07)

Yeah, it's a great question. It takes time. You know, the best example I'll give you is if you wanna be fit, you have to eat well.

(18:07 - 18:15)

They say you can't exercise away a bad diet. You have to take care of your body. And that means eating well consistently, right? 80-20 rule is what I follow.

(18:15 - 18:31)

You can't eat like shit all the time and then look at yourself in the mirror and go, why am I not fit, right? Kind of show up consistently and nurture your body. It's the same thing mentally. You have got to create space for yourself to be healthy.

(18:32 - 18:57)

You've got to practice meditation, getting outside, some exercise, some breathing. You have to constantly be learning new things and challenging yourself to really get uncomfortable so that you can know what it feels like to grow and develop, right? And the more that you work and exercise your brain, the smarter you get, right? Our brains can hold the quantity of information that's on the internet. We are absolutely incredible human beings and incredibly resilient.

(18:57 - 19:24)

When it comes to, and I did this for myself and do it for restaurateurs as well, we start by building a vision of where they wanna go, whether that's their business or themselves. So I designed my lifestyle before I started my company because it's important to have a compass of where you're going. And then through the work that we do together, we make sure that every decision that we're making and every commitment is guiding us towards that vision.

(19:24 - 19:49)

If it's not, it's not healthy and it doesn't make sense. So we get real clear on that vision down to how many restaurants you wanna open? How much money do you wanna make? When do you wanna retire? How do you want your relationships to look like in life and business, right? How do you wanna be as a leader? How do you wanna show up? All of these things get really, really clear on so that we know exactly where we're going and we make sure we don't steer the car off the road. Mm-hmm, that's great.

(19:49 - 20:16)

So I got a lot of thoughts going on here, but again, in leadership, right? And I guess that's why the name of the book is Dare to Lead because it's there, because it seems like it's, everybody wants to be an entrepreneur because it seems glamorous or whatever it is. A lot of people wanna open a restaurant and they're like, I wanna open a restaurant. What are your advice? Like, don't do it, but it's fun and it seems glamorous or whatever it is, but the restaurant business is the furthest thing from glamorous, it really is.

(20:16 - 20:47)

So when you're talking to leaders and we're addressing these emotional components of leadership, how do you get people to open up? Because it's something that we don't want to talk about, especially in business and sometimes as men. I think women are a little bit more open to talking about those things. How do you make that approach and how do you make them see that this is important and it's going to affect how they run their business and everything that they do? It's interesting and I agree with you.

(20:47 - 20:54)

I tell people when somebody comes to me and says, oh, I've never been in the restaurant business before, I wanna open a restaurant. I say, don't, I'm a huge advocate for the business. Don't do that, please.

(20:54 - 21:00)

We need better restaurants, we don't need more restaurants. Yeah. Last year, the majority of my clients were men.

(21:00 - 21:15)

Which I thought was really interesting because I thought for sure this was gonna be more of a female-driven business than male. It's interesting because it's like any other relationship. It takes time to build trust and mutual respect.

(21:15 - 21:35)

And coaching is not about sharing my experiences or story because I'm an influential coach. I build this body of work online that can be available for people 24-7 and so they can learn more about my experience. But coaching is all about them and it's all about asking really powerful questions to help them really peel back the layers of the onion of where they wanna get to.

(21:36 - 21:49)

And so it's about creating a really safe space for them to be vulnerable and be honest. And I'll share things every once in a while when I feel that they're relevant. But one thing that we don't do well in the restaurant industry is slow down.

(21:50 - 22:10)

And when I work with people, we work together an hour every other week, it's not an extraordinary amount of time. We are distraction-free, we are just like this, one-on-one. I can feel the energy that comes through that screen, which is wild to me because I've been used to being in person for so long, all my career and I love that.

(22:10 - 22:26)

But it's up to me to really challenge and dive deep into what I'm seeing and what my intuition is telling me. And I can call things out for people that they don't recognize or see is there and help them identify the blind spots. And that's where the moments of insight come from.

(22:26 - 22:48)

That's where the perspectives come from. And sometimes people don't know how, a lot of times they don't know how they're showing up. So sometimes I just get to hold up a fake mirror and not even a mirror, you know what I mean? Reflectively for them and say, here's what you're saying, here's how you're showing up, is this the intention? When you call that out for people and they realize they're showing up differently than what they've actually intended, it's a pretty powerful moment.

(22:49 - 23:18)

Right. And so as someone that now helps people navigate leadership and burnout, what do you think is the most common mistake leaders make when trying to manage their teams under high pressure, under these not slowing down, going fast, you know what I mean? These things, what do you think that is? I don't think they understand the difference between management and leadership. And I don't think that they understand when they want to open a business or when they want to open a restaurant or whatever business it is, that their job first and foremost is to lead.

(23:19 - 23:26)

So what's the difference between management and leadership? Management are the doers. They're the ones that are in there. They're solving the problems.

(23:26 - 23:29)

They're making shit happen. They're following the playbook. They're running great operations.

(23:30 - 23:38)

The leaders are the visionaries. They are the ones that are making sure that the decisions, again, are leading towards the vision of the company. They are in their coaching.

(23:38 - 23:48)

They're empowering their employees. They're not giving solutions to problems, but they are asking, what would you do? How would you do it? Go solve it. Go make a mistake.

(23:48 - 23:53)

It's a completely different skillset. And it's a natural one. Yeah.

(23:53 - 24:19)

Give us some examples of a toxic leadership style that you see often, and then give us some examples of how that can be shifted into a more positive leadership style. Maybe a case study, something that you've seen, something that you've worked on with a client. I have been pretty fortunate to not have toxic clients on purpose.

(24:21 - 24:33)

On purpose, but I, so I will tell you about some people that I've worked with. Maybe not completely toxic, but you see that the leadership style at the restaurant, it's not great. People are burnt out.

(24:33 - 24:37)

People are not happy. It's not going well. And person's like, I don't know what's wrong.

(24:38 - 24:44)

So those, those two extremes. When that leader, that leader shows up and it's, it's all about them. It's about their agenda.

(24:44 - 24:50)

They are the one that wants to work 60, 70, 80 hours a week. They brag about it. They martyr themselves.

(24:50 - 24:55)

They think they're a victim. Everything's happening to them. They're not taking responsibility for any of the actions.

(24:55 - 25:08)

They say, I don't know a lot. I'm actually, we're working on coaching this right now with a client. Whenever the night is busy or something goes wrong during the shift and they look at the leadership and say, what do you suggest? What do we do here? And the answer is, I don't know.

(25:09 - 25:12)

We're just not this busy. We can't serve this many guests. Just pull the tables out of the restaurant.

(25:13 - 25:35)

That's really toxic. When that person is not curious about how to make improvements every single day to the business or to take care of their people or to check in with their people or to be able to stand back and recognize, have empathy for their team and recognize verbal cues and nonverbal cues of how their team's doing. That's super toxic.

(25:35 - 25:45)

Wow. So what you're talking about here, so to be able to recognize this, there needs to be some level of humility. And I think we talked about this in other interviews when we talk about leadership.

(25:45 - 25:55)

I think it's one of the key components of good leadership. What are your thoughts on that? You're 100% right. My favorite coach, Rich Litman, always says, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.

(25:56 - 26:17)

And there's a chapter in my book about this, hiring people that are smarter than you. If you are putting yourself in a position where you know you don't know everything and that you're going to hire people with specific skill sets so that you can all learn and grow together and you can leave your ego at the door, you're going to be way more successful than coming in there thinking that you know everything. Because nobody's going to respect that.

(26:17 - 26:23)

Nobody wants to work with somebody like that. That's awful, right? People want collaboration. They want to be challenged.

(26:23 - 26:36)

They want to be empowered to have their voices heard and present new ideas. 100%. I think to all of us in a leadership position, it'll come sooner or later, either by getting the help and seeing new things or it comes by pain.

(26:36 - 26:47)

In my experience, it came through pain, mostly. I've been put in positions where I was forced to be humble. I was doing shit wrong, basically.

(26:47 - 27:03)

I was put in a built-in spot. I remember this, you know, I was getting started and I was managing one of the restaurants and basically one of our partners, the guy was, you know, at that time he was the CEO and he put me in front of all the servers and all the managers and just like everybody, like one-on-one dissecting all the shit that I was doing wrong. Wow.

(27:05 - 27:19)

So, talk about humility. I was so angry, resentful, ashamed. All of these things were fortunate because I had some development in me, you know, self-development and a lot of different things.

(27:19 - 27:32)

I was able to stand back and like just accept it. Good for you. And it was rough, but it helped me to get into a position of humility, learning, and really seeing where I could improve and then empathy with other people.

(27:33 - 27:41)

That's extraordinary. A lot of people would have run away. It's not easy, but listen, when you really want to grow, that's the only path.

(27:41 - 28:00)

So, how do you help people when you confront them with reality? And especially with these type of things and when they're running a restaurant that you see they're making these mistakes, like I was making all these mistakes. How do you confront them? How do you help them see the truth? The truth will set you free, but first they will piss you off. I don't know if you heard that same.

(28:00 - 28:23)

How do you do that? Well, I had a client last week tell me they hated me for all the right reasons. I have a tough love approach to coaching. I'm going to be honest with people, right? In a leadership role, oftentimes the people around you are saying yes a lot, right? So again, being honest with people and saying, I'm going to tell you from my perspective how you're showing up right now or what's going on.

(28:23 - 28:28)

Sometimes it lands with them. Sometimes it doesn't. And they can always negotiate and counter what I'm saying.

(28:28 - 28:39)

But I'm just really honest with them. And again, that helps build that trust and respect between the two of us. And it's just part of the process of breaking down the walls and just getting real, real.

(28:39 - 28:56)

And then from there, just starting to rebuild. And once people start to make those behavioral changes and that shift and change the way that they're thinking and start to feel the difference and feel lighter and have more energy and have more in-depth, real conversations with their family members and with their teammates, they start to understand. And then a lot of them get hungry for it.

(28:56 - 29:06)

And they're like, tell me what else you see. You know, what else are you not saying to me? So it's very much the same shift that you went through. Yeah, that's awesome because that's totally true.

(29:06 - 29:33)

That's been my experience as well, right? That once you get into the practice of being self-aware and understanding where your flaws are, it becomes freeing because you can actually see what needs to be given up, changed, ideas, thoughts, any of the things that are holding you back. It does that, but it also, in the beginning, for me anyway, kind of made me nervous. I was like, oh shit, what other things am I not aware of? And so you start to, I started to kind of question some things.

(29:33 - 29:39)

Then I realized that was a different saboteur. I just needed to quiet down, you know, everything was fine. Yeah, no, definitely.

(29:39 - 29:48)

So Kristen, share with us a little bit about your book, because you have your story here. We, I think you go into depth about talking about these things. Yeah, share a little bit about that.

(29:49 - 29:58)

I do. So the book is called The Hospitality Leader's Roadmap, Move from Ordinary to Extraordinary. It is a really raw, vulnerable experience of my 20 years in the industry.

(29:58 - 29:59)

I was very much a type of leader who left their shit at the door, expected employees to do the same. I was never vulnerable in my career and always hid everything that was happening personally from my team because I thought I needed to be the strong one all the time. And with this book, I, and a challenge from my coach to really get uncomfortable.

(30:17 - 31:00)

I just really laid it all out here and talk about the alcohol abuse, some really scary health moments that showed up for myself and my husband. Wonderful stories like Anthony Bourdain coming to record at one of our restaurants, which was awesome. And over 30 leadership lessons that I've learned along the way as in any position, line cook, AGM, GM, regional manager, managing partner, and working in the independent space.

And then what I learned through the expansive growth and the journey of burnout to becoming a mentally fit leader and an entrepreneur. So it's really a book that anyone can grab at any stage of their restaurant career. And there's also six podcast episodes that I reference in there kind of off to the side.

(31:00 - 32:11)

So if people want to take a deeper dive, they can jump into the show and listen to it. That's fantastic. And where can they get your book? They can find it at Amazon? Amazon.

Yep. And then kristinmarvin.com book as well. Okay.

Fantastic. Kristin. Kristin.

So just to talk about this, where can people find also for information about your services and what you offer to restaurant leaders? Yeah, absolutely. Kristinmarvin.com is going to be your main source for everything. My cell phone number's on there.

My email address is on there. I would love to have a conversation with anybody for 30 minutes to 60 minutes about any pain point or problem that you're having. And I'll do complimentary coaching sessions with people too, just to see if we're the right fit.

Cause sometimes I'm not exactly the right partner for somebody, but I've got a wonderful network of coaches that I can recommend to people. Okay. Fantastic.

Kristin, thank you so much. Kristin, I do have one last question for you. Imagine you're hosting a dinner party for some of the most influential figures in the hospitality industry, past or present.

You have the chance to ask one question to spark a conversation that could change the future of the industry. What would you ask and why? This is a really tough question. I'm picturing Danny Meyer sitting at the table.

(32:13 - 32:40)

What's the number one thing that Danny Meyer thinks independent restaurants need in order to be sustainable? That's a good question. I think I know, but I want to know his perspective. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it all goes back to what we've been talking about because I think it starts culture, companies, businesses. They start with individuals and the people that run them.

(32:41 - 33:20)

If we are not well inside, we're not going to be well on the outside. And even though you buy me baking money, people are going to suffer. People are not going to be happy.

And at some point, it's going to fall. That's my two cents. I love it.

I love it. Anyways, thank you so much again for being on the show. It's really fantastic to have all your insights.

Everybody, of course, you already heard where you can find Kristin. If you guys are struggling with anything with your restaurant when it comes to leadership and anything that's happening within your business, you can reach out to Kristin. She can help you out to figure all this stuff out and move your business into the right direction.

(33:20 - 33:21)

Thanks for having me. 

(33:21 - 33:23)

Okay. Thanks so much, Kristin.