Hospitality That Lasts: Tracy Rathbun on Building Restaurants That Stand the Test of Time

What does it really take to build restaurants that last? In this episode of Restaurant Leaders Unplugged, Tracy Rathbun—restaurateur, co-founder of Dallas gems like Shinsei and Lover’s Seafood—joins host Sebastian Stahl for a raw and insightful conversation.

With over 30 years of experience spanning hospitality, luxury automotive, and entrepreneurial leadership, Tracy shares how her people-first philosophy, relentless adaptability, and creative vision have kept her restaurants not just surviving—but thriving.

Discover:

• Why self-policing teams outperform rulebooks
  
  
  
• How to scale without losing your soul (or your values)
  
  
  
• Lessons from missteps, including what COVID taught her
  
  
  
• The surprising secret behind her back-of-house longevity
  
  
  
• Why independence still has an edge in today’s market
  
  
  

Whether you’re an aspiring restaurateur, a seasoned operator, or just hungry for real talk about building something that matters—this one’s for you.

Connect with our guest:
 Her Restaurants: https://shinseirestaurant.com/ , https://www.loversseafoodmarket.com/ , Perch, Rathbun Curbside BBQ
Social media: https://www.instagram.com/loversseafoodmarket/
Website: www.shinseirestaurant.com

Restaurant Leaders Unplugged with Sebastian Stahl

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Transcript

(0:00 - 0:27)

Today I'm excited to sit down with Tracy Rathbun, an incredible restauranteur who brings more than 30 years of hospitality wisdom to the table. Tracy began her journey waiting tables while studying psychology at UT Austin, and later moving into leadership roles at Hyatt Regency and even conquering the luxury automotive industry. Today, she's known for co-founding beloved Dallas hot spots like Shinsei and Rathbun curbside barbecue, and beyond restaurants, Tracy is passionate about art, travel, and unforgettable hospitality experiences.

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So let's dig into her story, what drives her, and her unique approach to creating restaurants that people truly love. Welcome to the Restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast, where real talks with restaurant leaders take center stage. Discover the challenges and victories that define success in the culinary world.

Dive into essential strategies from marketing to operations and gain insights that will transform your approach to your restaurant business. Don't just keep up, lead the way. Join me, your host, Sebastian Stahl, on this journey to excellence.

Tracy, welcome to the Restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast. It's really a pleasure to have you here. Thank you.

It's a pleasure to be here. Tracy, so let's start at the beginning. I know you have a pretty interesting story through your journey in the restaurant business.

You didn't start in the restaurant business. So can you take us back and just tell us a little bit how you got into it? Actually, I did start in the restaurant business. I went to the University of Texas in Austin, and my first job was waiting tables, as I think most of us start in this industry.

We kind of start on a path, if you're front of the house, waiting tables, back of the house, it seems like everybody starts as either a dishwasher or a cook. So yeah, I started waiting tables, and I did that all through college, graduated, went to work for the Hyatt as a food and beverage manager, and absolutely hated it. I determined that working for a large corporation was nothing I ever wanted to do.

So got out of the restaurant hospitality business and got into the automobile business. Fourteen years later, kind of found my way back. So then how did you start after deciding that you didn't want to work for a corporate world? I didn't want to be in the corporate world.

I actually did it for a little bit, but I didn't enjoy it much. And so how did then the decision come to let me open a restaurant? Let me get into this again. So, you know, I married my husband in 2001.

At the time, he had a restaurant called Abacus here in Dallas. It started in 99, which was kind of groundbreaking. It was five star.

He was a five-time nominated James Beard chef, but it was a volume, five dinings. So something that we hadn't really seen, especially in Dallas or in Texas, I would say. And it kind of renewed my passion.

(2:47 - 8:12)

I love people and I love hospitality and I love the business end of it. So it kind of renewed my passion, I mean, around his business and what he was doing. In 2003, we had our first child and I changed dealerships after 10 years.

I was in the Porsche business, in the Porsche world. And looked around the men that I worked with, because it was all men. And I was like, I got to do something else.

And the only thing I knew was hospitality. And so I approached a friend of mine and said, listen, her husband was a chef and said, listen, if we could open a restaurant, would you be my partner? Because I knew that it wouldn't work if I had to do it on my own. And I knew I didn't really want to partner with my husband in that sense.

So she thought about it for a little bit and said, you know, yeah, I would, I would partner with you. And then from there, we just kind of built on it. And I left the automobile business and we opened our first restaurant in 2006.

And then from there, we've kind of gone along a path. It's been a while, Tracy, because I mean, since 2006, having a restaurant open that long, especially in this time, it's not an easy thing. Yeah.

So what do you think are the things that you learned, especially, I mean, through your whole journey that have helped you guys stay in business for so long and still thriving? Surround yourself with people that share your values and keep them motivated because they'll keep you motivated. I was talking with our staff yesterday. I work one true management shift a week still, you know, where I'm an opening manager.

And I do that because I love it. It's a totally different experience when you're working as a floor manager than when you're an owner. So I try one shift a week where I'm opening.

I see everything that's going on and I sit down with our pre-shift and talk with the staff in a different way. One of the things we were talking about yesterday is the ability to police yourselves. And when you have a team that everyone shares the same values, I'm not going to tell you every hire is perfect because they're not, but your team actually does a great job of policing themselves.

When you have a member that's not sharing your core values, they can push them out pretty quick. I think that is the key for me. Everybody on board has to share those values.

And one of the things we talked about yesterday was it's not enough to treat our customers well, our guests. It's got to be that we're treating each other well and that everyone on our team is a valued member and they understand what we're trying to achieve or our guests are never going to experience that. So number one, surrounding yourself with the right people.

And then number two, reinforcing that and treating those people and giving them power and autonomy to do what your vision is. Well, Tracy here, you're talking about buying, right? And it depends of course on where you're at with the business. And correct me if I'm wrong, you guys also open in other restaurants.

Yeah. So when you're scaling, but it's been my experience, right? Because we also scale the small restaurant to multiple units and concepts. What values they can become writing on the wall, basically, instead of really trickling down from the top all the way to every single member of the team.

And then getting the buy-in is even harder because it's, okay, you might say it to, as you scale, again, you have more members, you talk to the managers, and then how do you make sure that, again, they just trickle down. So in your experience, Tracy, any systems or things that you have implemented to help you so that all that information, not just the information, the actual values go to everyone and that everybody acts accordingly. Right.

I think there's two things. I think one is you have the right people in place. Right.

You're never going to teach someone hospitality. You can teach someone systems, but if they don't truly care for people and want to create the same synergy that you do, it's never going to happen. So putting the right people in place is key.

You can't be everywhere. And as you grow, you sure can't be everywhere, but everybody kind of has to buy into your message and understand what it is. Like I said, you can't really teach caring for people.

If it's not there, it's not there. And so the trickle-down effect is true, but I look at it more as we all are in the same boat together and really everybody understanding that our vision of how we take care of our guests and how we present our product and long-term goals, everybody has to share that, not just buy it, really share it. Obviously trickle-down is true because we're the ones captaining the ship.

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But if your crew is not on board with you and really understanding, you're always going to have a few weak links. You don't want that. It really goes back to hiring.

It goes beyond before even that process begins, right? Like understanding your values yourself and then finding the people that will align naturally with those values. And so then selection becomes the most important thing. Absolutely.

We've had many managers come to us from reputable companies. They can read a P&L, they understand food costs, they understand expenses, but if they don't understand what we're trying to accomplish, which is exceeding our guest expectation, none of it matters. It's interesting.

And I truly feel like maybe somebody that's not successful with us, there's a place for them. It's just not necessarily with us. Yeah, a hundred percent.

It's better off for everybody. Sometimes you're in a need, you're missing somebody in the kitchen or whatever it is, and then you hire because you need to substitute that position. And I think many restaurant owners fall into that.

(9:25 - 11:22)

Missing a cook, I need to hire now. You know, especially over the last few years, because COVID really changed our world. Yeah.

And probably the most eye-opening epiphany for me, even though you know things, our chef, our corporate chef and I sat down with every single back of the house employee. We did front of the house, but the chef and I did the back of the house and really talked to them about where do you see yourself? What do you want to do? How can we help you advance? How can we help you make more money? And it was such an eye opener to me. 80% of our back of the house people were like, I love what I do.

I'm right where I want to be. Well, how do I get you to the next level so you can make more money? I don't really want to be at the next level. Yeah.

Yes, we bet. It was out of my way of thinking. And I was like, okay, take a step back, Tracy.

You're going to have to realize that what you have to do is just keep these people motivated to do what they do. They don't want to do more. They don't want to learn more.

And that should be okay. There's a reason that you can go in some incredibly successful businesses and you find people that have been doing the same thing for 20 years. Yeah.

I think we had the same experience with some people because falsely and we would believe like these guys want to grow or they want to pack. Some do. Some do.

But a lot of them, they just prefer to stay where they're at. Don't move anything. I'm happy here.

This is cool. And they're truly happy. Yeah.

I mean, it's so interesting. Like I said, it was such a shift in my thinking because that's not my personality. My brain doesn't work that way.

And we buy into like the American dream. No, no, no, no. A lot of our people, they really love what they do.

(11:22 - 13:46)

They want to be who they are. This is what they want. Well, how do I make you satisfied and happy? Okay.

Okay. I'll give you an example. Our dishwasher, who is quite well paid, has been with us in June.

It'll be 19 years. I mean, I've got, I shouldn't say, probably 10 people that have been with us since the day we opened the doors. And they love what they do.

They like the people they work with. They like what they do. So, okay.

Yeah. So, Tracy, you mentioned COVID, of course. That was a challenging time for, I think, absolutely for everyone, especially, I mean, in the restaurant business.

It was crazy. But we all go through ups and downs. Can you share a particularly challenging moment? I mean, COVID is one of them, I understand, but that you had to push through and where I think you learned the most and made you appreciate things in a different way.

Yeah. I would say that our restaurant, Lover's Seafood and Market, we missed it when we first opened and it was not performing where we wanted it to perform. Our vision wasn't, we couldn't figure out like, okay, we have a vision.

Why are we not reaching it? What's not working? And we had to really take a hard look at ourselves, step back, say, okay, here's what we missed and let's correct it. And actually COVID was kind of a godsend because we used the opportunity to pivot and we're able to use the funds that we receive totally. I mean, that's what they were for is outside dining area.

And we built a beautiful patio. Glen helped us, everyone came together and it was a game changer. We did some other things, really were like, how do we take a step back and invest a little bit of money and make this what we were trying to achieve in the beginning? Changed our business, tripled our business.

And I think I learned a lot from that, learning that sometimes you have to really evaluate what you're doing and change. And we could have walked away. Thank God we didn't.

And we've been open eight years now, but not being stubborn in your vision and understanding that, hey, I'm going to have to rethink this. Yeah. Tracy, I think that's something that many restaurant owners go through.

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I certainly went through that because you have a vision, the initial vision, and you have, you're like this, this is what I want to do. And this is the vision. And then when you see that it's not working, it's obvious and you need to change, but there's still some resistance to it because you start coming up with excuses.

Why not? Right. And the reason is maybe why it's not working out. So how did you guys or how did you really come to that conclusion? And then also saying, hey, I'm actually going to invest more money because, you know, the risk in restaurants, it can be like you'll bleed money like crazy in no time.

In no time. Yeah. So for other restaurant owners that might be listening, what was your aha moment when you said this is what we need to do? And what was your attitude towards, okay, kind of screw my initial mission to change and do something different? I think that I hate to say it, but again, in the words of Kenny Rogers, you know, you got to know when to hold them and know.

You decide like, okay, I'm going to give this one last effort and I'm going to be totally open. And I think the problem with a lot of us in this business is we're a little bit crazy in this business, because if the odds of succeeding, they're not good. So it's like deciding you're going to be an actor.

Your chances of succeeding are really small. So you have to be a little bit crazy to do it. And fortunately, I'm a little bit crazy and just decided that, sure, we're going to do this.

And you also have to know when to step back. Say, okay, I'm looking at every avenue here. And if I go this way, if I go this way, I still don't see success.

And I truly believed that if we made the changes that we did, working with the numbers and what I thought could happen, that it would, it was going to be the last-ditch effort, but I thought that it would succeed. The problem is we are a little bit crazy and we get coned in on what our great idea is. I mean, have you ever seen a restaurant tour come to you with an idea and go, it's probably not a good idea? I mean, no, they all, I had this idea and it's so amazing and it's so great.

And they have a hundred percent buy-in on it and they get you, they get investors excited. They believe in it. And so being able to step back and go, yeah, I know I said this was my idea.

I know I said that this was going to be the way it is, but I need to take a step back and pivot a little bit and change my idea. And that's what's hard for most people is they are so locked in with what they are a hundred percent on the road for. They have to be able to say, okay, there's another way to get there.

There's another path to this idea. Yeah. Tracy, I think with what you just said is also crucial to surround yourselves with other people that can give you honest feedback.

And I think that's for every entrepreneur because it can be a lonely road, right? Because the decisions you need to make and all the things and moving parts and all that stuff, in some sense, we're blinded, right? So what have you surround, of course, besides, I mean, your husband, I think it's a key asset for you guys to getting other people's feedback into your decision-making. So one of my best hire, I had a friend that I met right after college and she was working for Eatsies. And I don't know if you're familiar with Eatsies.

Eatsies is a market here in town that does a really great job at fresh food, market food. They have, you know, to go basically. And started by Phil Romano and experienced a lot of success.

(17:38 - 18:52)

He grew it, went to New York, Atlanta, all over. It didn't work. And she came back to Dallas.

She got a job working for QuizMeds as their franchise development person, locations working with franchisees. And then in 2007, she was laid off. And she had a year severance.

She just had a baby. And I went to her and said, hey, I have a job for you. It's basically as my assistant, but would you be interested? And she was like, well, it's actually kind of perfect timing.

I just had a baby. So yeah. She's now our director of ops.

And probably one of the best things I've ever done because she's very honest. She's intelligent and she's one step away. It's not a partner.

She's one step away. And I think being able to bring in people that you trust, that are honest with you is the key to being able to step back and make changes. Even if they say, you know, surround yourself with people smarter than you.

Yeah, that's true. But if they're not honest and willing to tell you like it is, then they're just smarter than you. They're not really assisting you on your journey.

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Right. That's the key. And that's a great way of putting it.

And then Tracy, as restaurant business right now, it's going through a lot of things, a lot of shifts. And again, we kind of have to go back and keep reinventing ourselves. And so what are you guys seeing? Where are you guys heading? How are you guys adapting to the shift? Of course, labor costs way higher now than before.

Food costs are way higher. Now we're talking about tariffs, which who knows if that's going to bring up the cost of everything, which I think it will do in the short term. Oh, well, for sure it will.

And I mean, avocados. Lime. Yeah, right.

Exactly. To give you an example, I went to the store yesterday. I bought strawberries and blackberries.

And my 18-year-old this morning said, when is strawberry season? He said, not right now. Not right now. And I was explaining to her that you always want to look, where these are raised.

And they were both packages were from Mexico. And I said, we're in Texas. Most of our produce is from Mexico.

It's either from the valley, Mexico. They not only have farms, they have greenhouses and that's how they're raising them. And just trying to get her to think about how the world impacts what we do here in Dallas, everyone.

And you're exactly right. I wish I could tell you I had this really sunny outlook for what we do. I don't.

I see the world changing at light speed right now. And not necessarily to the better for small business. I'm a member of an amazing group of restaurateurs here in Dallas.

We have about 25 people and there's constantly we meet once a month and 15 to 20 of us meet once a month because you know, everybody's traveling and they have, which is a pretty good number considering who we have. We have the CEO and founder of front burner, some pretty large restaurateurs, not just in the state of Texas, but nationwide. And we all come together and kind of have best practices and what's going on and what you're seeing in the industry.

And last year, it was interesting because our January meeting, we have a round table. Every time we have lunch, we have a round table. And one of the guys who's an extremely successful commercial real estate developer and by choice investor in quite a few restaurants, he was like, I got to tell you, the people that we're going to fall out are small independents that be swallowed up.

And what we're in the next 10 years is a big change in what we see on the landscape of restaurants. And I don't disagree. If you can't consolidate your labor, your management labor, your costing, you know, I'm not buying my meat on contracts.

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I can't do that. So it's, it's a scary time and it's an interesting time, but what they say, the only thing guaranteed in life has changed. So yeah, you got to adapt and figure out where you fit.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with you, Tracy.

I think there's a very, very challenging times. I just think that there is still a way that independence will survive because we're so creative. I think you are.

I agree. And so many survived during COVID and went through so many changes and so many regards, but things that we're seeing and with the more people that we talk to is, I mean, what you're talking about, right? It's simple menus, streamlined menus, streamlined operations, smaller real estate, or if you have larger real estate, a lot of controlled cost events, right? That's like where people are heading because that's high ticket controlled, right? You can control the menu, you can control labor, all of that. Correct.

And then the people that offer have again, full service, all this stuff, they're just bringing in more experiences because still people want to go out, still people want to have these experiences. They want to connect with other people. We just have to provide even more value in different ways, not necessarily through food.

Right. So that's a trend that we're seeing it in Miami. And it's like, I'm sure it's in Dallas as well.

You're seeing Miami just kind of get crazy with all these people coming in from all over the world, trying to open restaurants. Yeah. All the locals and the small operators, because we've been there for a long time, the competition got crazy.

Yeah. It's like New York, LA. We've seen in Dallas, y'all's restaurants in Miami come here.

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It doesn't. We see that, I think because you open a successful concept in one city, doesn't mean it's going to be successful in the next city. I think there's many things that are not taken into account when that happens.

Anyways, that's an entire conversation that we can have. But it's pushed home for me. And what I've really tried to talk to our team about is stay true to who we are and what we do.

Write your business smarter, but stay true to who we are. And who we are, we are known for our hospitality. So stay the course, run efficiently, be creative.

We really focus now on your right experiences. We do wine tastings, wine tasting events. So basically for $50 to $70, we'll bring in winemakers.

You'll get a two ounce pour. You do five wines, you taste through. We'll have 30 to 40 people with a bite.

So you get five bites of food. I mean, they're great bites of food. But then they have dinner and you're able to give them a value and something different.

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Hopefully reach people, first timers every time and kind of show who you are. Of course, you have your core people that always come. But not just wine dinners, not just omakase experiences, but things that you do more often at a lower price point with controlled costs.

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I think you hit it also with what you're talking about with these experiences and the hospitality first, because you're building those relationships and people, when we're talking about loyalty, that plays a big part, that connection. Now, convenience trumps anything. That's my experience.

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If not, just look at Uber Eats. But we can do the best that we can with, again, just building those deeper connections through experiences. So I think you're definitely on the right track.

So Tracy, for new restauranteurs or for struggling restauranteurs, what would your advice be from everything that you learned in your career in the restaurant business? I would say, number one, find someone that can help mentor you. I don't necessarily believe in restaurant consultants. A lot of these guys, if you're not hiring a restaurant consultant that has years of experience doing almost exactly what you do, I'm not going to hire a restaurant consultant from a major food group.

They don't understand what I'm doing. They're past that. They left that years ago.

So find a mentor and really get them to meet with you and go over your P&L. Where are your numbers off? What are you doing? How do I truly, on this portion, on your expense portion? And then the same thing, maybe you're missing it on your hospitality side. Maybe you're missing it on your functionality of the restaurant.

(26:57 - 29:04)

What are you doing? Maybe you have this idea as a restaurateur of what you like in a restaurant. That's where I think a lot of us step is we have this idea of what we like. And unless you're your customer, necessarily, you're not.

I mean, I walked in a restaurant the other day and they had on like 80s hair bands, rock, you know, and I'm going, what? No, they eat my dinner with this. Being able to have somebody say, hey, you're going to need to make some changes that maybe you don't agree with. Maybe your menu is too big.

I know you love all these things, but really listen and have a mentor that you can listen to and you'll take their advice. Try it. It's not working.

Try it. A lot of us just get really, like I said, we attract our business kind of attracts the crazy, passionate people. That's great.

But business side to this in a formula that that has to work. And a lot of us aren't willing to step back and change. And if you don't.

Yeah, I think it starts as basic as site selection, Tracy, because basic as site selection. This place is going to do great. My menu is the best.

My food is also another pride experience. People are going to find us. We're a destination.

This was my mom's lasagna. I love it. Everyone comes to my house and they think it's the best.

Yeah, yeah. Still to this day, I keep seeing over and over again, people betting on places because, oh, or because it's a second generation place that they get a good rank on and they take it. And then everything can be working in terms of like food, service, like all it's good.

Right. Reviews are great. But your location sucks.

There is nothing that you will do because I've experienced it myself as well. Nothing that you can do is going to bring more people. I've experienced with a great location that the concept is solid, but it's not fitting your base.

(29:05 - 29:11)

Product market fit. I mean, there is a restaurant out of Miami right now. Yeah.

(29:11 - 29:18)

That is probably one of your number one restaurants in Miami that's here. What restaurant? Komodo. Oh.

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Has not translated. Okay. And part of it is where they are.

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Culture. It's culture. Yeah.

I saw they were opening. Yeah. Yeah.

And I was like, how is this going to translate in Dallas? Such a different vibe. Oh, 23,000 square feet. Okay.

All right. I think their private club does well on the weekends. Their nightclub, not like Miami.

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Miami is one of the highest selling restaurants, I think, in the U.S., but like it's Miami is such a different scene, though. Like people, it's just, it's just completely different. Understanding Dallas is really a different beast.

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And I could pretty much say that about every major city. They have a different personality demographic. We don't have tourism.

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No one's coming to Dallas. Hey, where should we go for the weekend? Let's go to Dallas. They come here for business.

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Yeah, but we have a beach. We don't have mountains. We don't.

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It's not that way. And our convention business is not great comparatively to even Austin or Chicago or Vegas or Miami. You have a core clientele understanding that our core clientele, they are very loyal, very, very, very loyal.

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But you're not getting a ton of new business. You're not you don't have a revolving door of tourism. You don't have a revolving door of convention business.

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That's a portion of your business. Understanding that in this city, more than ever, we have to have a product. And when I say product, I don't just mean the food.

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I mean, our entire experiential product that brings people back constantly. And if you're not doing that, I sat with our management team. We had our P&L meeting last week and we talked about the new restaurants in Dallas and how many new restaurants are coming in.

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And I said, yeah, but I want you to look at the actual numbers of who's doing what. And the top five restaurants are still the top five restaurants. And they're there because of the experience and the hospitality that they give our guests.

(31:48 - 31:54)

Consistency. Consistency and hospitality. Like Danny Meyers would make it in Dallas.

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Yeah. Komodo? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I hear you, Tracy.

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I hear you. I hear you. I'm not saying anything negative about Komodo.

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Yeah. That thing. I don't know if my restaurant would thrive in Miami.

(32:11 - 32:16)

OK, so please understand. I am not saying anything negative about Komodo. I understand.

(32:16 - 32:22)

It's not about that. It's about, again, product market fit. And it's like I think we're going to a new city.

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I opened my first restaurant in Miami, and I wasn't from there. And it was also a huge learning process. I didn't understand.

(32:28 - 32:43)

And I completely misread the whole thing. So and I didn't speak to locals or local restaurants towards enough to really understand how everything was moving and how people behaved and all these things. Right.

So I think that's that's crucial. Oh, my gosh. I had a lot of palpitation.

(32:44 - 32:58)

Gosh, four years ago. So right after right after Kevin with the New York broker that was getting carbone spot here. And I asked her what her proforma was.

(32:59 - 33:06)

Well, what are you budgeting? She told me 24 million. And I started laughing. And she was insulting.

(33:06 - 33:13)

She was insulting that I laughed at her. And I said, you're not going to get there. She was you don't know.

(33:13 - 33:21)

She goes, we have 20,000 square feet. And I go, you're not going to get there. You're not going to fill that place first.

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And sure enough, they came in. They would not accept walk ins. They had a host staff that was trained basically to tell, you know, I was like, Ron.

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Not going to work. Our city is not like that. Our city is not like that.

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You got to work in here with open arms, embracing the community. And if you're not doing that, you're missing the boat. Because I won't come back.

(33:51 - 34:00)

They can have a great meal and they won't come back. They want to feel warm. And the restaurant that has done a great job of that is catch.

(34:01 - 34:16)

Great job. They brought in their GM from Aspen, David Richardson, and he's great at hospitality. And he came in with the mindset of I'm going to win these people over and they're going to be our regulars.

(34:17 - 34:32)

And it makes all the difference in the world. You know, I think catch is thriving. They've done an incredible job here.

People love. But it's not because it's so hard to get reservation. Right.

It's going back to hospitality. That's right. I don't know if it's a Texas thing.

(34:33 - 34:46)

I just known that that's the way our clientele, they want to feel one. Yeah, they'll come, they'll come once because it's a hard to get reservation and they want to check it out. And if they don't feel wanted and warm, they won't be back.

(34:46 - 35:00)

Right. So Tracy, what next for you guys and what's next for you in the business or what's coming up? I know you've been doing this for a long time. Yeah, I've actually got some really crazy ideas, but I'll just say this.

(35:00 - 35:29)

I think that what we're talking about, independence versus corporate. I feel like there's a market in secondary markets in cities that are 200,000 or less that have had to rely in the South. I don't know if you guys have it in Miami, but there's a restaurant chain called Cotton Patch, and they've had to go to these places like Cotton Patch, like Texas Roadhouse, like Cracker Barrel.

(35:29 - 35:43)

That's their restaurants. And they want more. And I think in my mind, I'm just maybe the last two months, I've kind of had this in my head, like, you know, I think there's an opportunity out there for independence.

(35:44 - 36:02)

And the corporate companies aren't looking to this market besides the Chili's and the the really corporate. I think there's a need for that in their marketplace, because I grew up in a small town. And when I go to these towns, they're not small towns.

(36:02 - 36:12)

If you're 200,000 people, there's a marketplace for a nicer style restaurant. So in my head, I've kind of been mulling that over. Yeah.

(36:12 - 36:32)

Just to share with you kind of my thought process. But I think right now we're all as small independents trying to take a step back and say, OK, what's my path forward? Besides, just I got to control my costs. How did you decide to start a podcast? I've been doing this for a long time as well since 2005.

(36:34 - 36:59)

And I think this is a channel where restaurants, coaches, leaders. We interview a lot of people from different places in the industry, share their ideas, and we just give it back to whoever will listen, because we're all going through these changing times, all these things. And the more help that we can receive through different people, different angles, different points of view, I think we can be more successful with, you know what I mean? With our businesses.

(36:59 - 37:02)

Yeah. And I just love talking to people. That's why I got into hospitality.

(37:02 - 37:12)

I do something different now, but I'm still involved with hospitality. But it's that's just the way I'm built. Again, it goes back to kind of a lot of us that have an idea.

(37:12 - 37:18)

We get into this business. We're wired a little differently. And part of it is we do love we love people.

(37:19 - 37:25)

And we love the energy that good people bring to us. And you're exactly right. So, yeah, I could see that.

(37:26 - 37:47)

Yeah. And I think you're onto something, Tracy, actually, when we go to the big shows and, you know, fast casual summit or whatever, when you talk to these big operators, what do you think are the best performers or like their units? Yeah. They're in these small markets because lower rents, people are happy to go get there, they don't have that many options, so they do really well.

(37:47 - 38:00)

And those markets have been ignored, except for the chain restaurants that are along the freeways, that go through there, that go through their towns. And I mean, I'm not talking in a car bounce. That's not what I'm talking about.

(38:00 - 38:07)

I'm talking it's the marketplace for where you're going. And I just feel like there's a market for it. And you're right.

(38:08 - 38:16)

You've got lower rents, lower labor, paying the same for your food, really. But the people are loyal to the different mentality. It's a different mentality.

(38:17 - 38:21)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Tracy, this was an awesome conversation.

(38:22 - 38:29)

It really was. It was such a pleasure to have you. And for anybody that doesn't know or is visiting Dallas, actually.

(38:30 - 38:44)

So can you share where your restaurants are? We're about 10 minutes from downtown. We're in a neighborhood called Park Cities. And we have Shinsei, which is a Asian restaurant with a traditional Japanese sushi bar.

(38:44 - 38:50)

We opened that one in 2006. It's really unique. It doesn't really feel like anything else.

(38:50 - 39:00)

It doesn't fit in the box of a certain style. And then we have a restaurant called Lover's Seafood and Market. It's at the corner of Lover's Lane and Inwood here in Dallas.

(39:00 - 39:13)

So Lover's Seafood Market. And we have a small market for fresh fish and really an amazing selection of seafood. Plus, of course, steak and burger.

(39:14 - 39:26)

We have a restaurant that's sort of a European bistro style restaurant upscale called Perch. Great bar, pastas, pizza, still has steak and burger. I don't want to call it Italian.

(39:26 - 39:35)

I would say more of a Italian-European. And then we have a catering operation and my husband has a barbecue concept. So we kind of fit everything.

(39:35 - 39:39)

I love everything. Yeah. So yes, definitely.

(39:39 - 39:56)

I would say if you want a great experience, really great food. Plus, yeah, I seldom talk to people that have it when they've come to the restaurant, they all want to go, oh my gosh, you know, Tammy waited on us and she was so amazing. And so it's always, we try and make it that type of experience.

(39:57 - 40:00)

Yeah. Well, Chrissy, that was wonderful. Thank you so much.

(40:00 - 40:18)

So besides including all the links, of course, we'll include all the links for you and different businesses on the podcast notes. Is there anything else that I could do or we as a company could do to help you in this journey? Get the word out, I think. Keep people coming, understand, like we just, we were saying that independence or go to your local place.

(40:19 - 40:23)

If you, as you love it, go. That's great. Well, thank you, Tracy.

(40:23 - 40:29)

I really appreciate your time. And I think I might be visiting Dallas soon. So if I'm here, I'll reach out and I'll stop by.

(40:30 - 40:32)

Definitely I'll stop by. Absolutely. All right.

(40:32 - 40:34)

Thank you so much. Thanks.