Saying Goodbye To Liam Payne

Hi, Feelers! In this week's episode we say an emotional goodbye to Liam Payne after his recent passing. While we process his shocking and untimely death, we unpack:

• The duality of grieving someone who didn't always do the right thing
• Darkness in the music industry machine
• Supporting people through substance abuse and mental health struggles
• Grappling with the loss of the first death of a pop star for our generation
• Sharing our memories as One Direction fans

We know grief looks different for everyone, but we encourage you to share your stories and memories and alchemize the pain into something creative. If you do, tag us! We'd love to see it!

If you or a loved one are struggling with substance abuse, you can visit helpguide.org

Chapters

• 0:00 Disclaimer/Update
• 3:05 Welcome + What's In Your Cup!?
• 10:13 The Shock of Liam Payne Passing Away
• 14:57 Processing Loss as a Fan of One Direction
• 18:23 How to Grieve Someone You Admired Amidst Allegations of their Actions Toward Women
• 24:27 The Implications of Mental Health and Substance Abuse in the Music Industry
• 39:30 Fangirls Make The World Go Round
• 47:21 How Our Friendship Blossomed Through Loving One Direction
• 54:22 Making Lasting Friendships With Fellow Fans
• 1:00:38 How Music and One Direction Has Helped us Heal and Process Difficult Times
• 1:04:06 Sharing Our Fangirl Chronicles from the 2010s
• 1:13:31 Rest Peacefully, Liam, We Love You!

Transcript

crystina_5_10-24-2024_215712: 0:00

Hey feelers. It's Crystina I am editing this episode. And so I wanted to put out a little disclaimer, as you probably know, we tragically lost Liam Payne about a week ago when I'm recording this, but when we filmed the episode, it was a lot closer to his passing and a lot of things have come out since then. So at the time of the recording, we didn't really have all the facts. And also keep in mind that at the time of the recording, we were still working through our own shock and our own grief. And I think that our goal is to celebrate and honor the life of Liam, but also respect him and his family and his son. We also wanted to hold space for One Direction fans to come together and grieve and talk about their feelings and feel like they had somewhere to go. Because I think a lot of us relate in that we. Don't always have other people to talk about these types of events with when they happen and just know that you're not alone. And if you are not ready to listen to this episode, that's totally okay. I totally understand. And I also wanted to put it out there that if you or somebody that you love struggles with substance abuse, that there are resources available for you. You can go to helpguide. org. We're going to link that in the description and put any other resources we find down there for you. It is a very ugly disease. And it really breaks my heart that Liam went out thinking that he had nobody in his corner and that people online, people who he tried his best to put out good music for and entertain, just didn't care about him. It doesn't excuse some of the things that he has done and said and the poor choices that he has made. But we do overall want to put out this episode because he is so loved as is One Direction as a whole. And everybody deserves to feel loved. And if that's something that we didn't drive home enough in the episode, I really want to drive it home here. That he brought light to a lot of people's lives who were dealing with so much and even some of the things that he was dealing with. And so it breaks my heart that. This is the way that he tragically and unfortunately has left this world. So, all that being said, if you see someone in your life that is struggling, please just reach out, because you never know when the last time it may be that you're talking to somebody, or you may never know what the impact that that might have on them, the positive impact. So, Without further ado, I hope that you enjoy the episode and we hope that it sparks conversation. Talk to you soon.

2:44

Welcome to Empaths Anonymous, a space for dreamers, healers, and feelers, navigating the fine line between putting yourself first and holding space for others. If you struggle with balancing your needs while still supporting your tribe, then you're in the right place. Welcome to the support group.

empaths-anon_1_10-22-2024_140922: 3:05

Hello, welcome back to Empaths Anonymous podcast. I've missed you guys. I love, absolutely love, love, love when we have a guest, don't get me wrong. But sometimes I miss us just kiki ing and this may not necessarily feel like a kiki type of episode because it's. It's going to have a very heavy subject matter, and I know a lot of us are emotional about it. But before we get into that, what's in your cup, girly pop? I have a can. I was too lazy to put in a cup. Product placement. I have a Nixie sparkling water, and it is a flavor, where did I get this? Where was I at where I told you I found a new flavor? Roots. Was it Roots? It was Roots. Shout out to Roots. We love a local grocer. I don't know if they have that many other locations. I was gonna say, I've never seen roots anywhere else. Right. They do feel very local to the Temeculas and the Murrietas. Yeah. Anyway, I found the pomegranate green tea nixie. And it is very good, and it obviously is green tea, so it does give you a little bit of a caffeine kick. And it's good. I like the flavor. I bought it to use for our cute little how do you say? Oh, our mocktails? Yes, a mocktail. Thank you. And yeah, I just need a little pick me up that wasn't coffee, because I do be getting coffeed out, as we've been saying. Yeah. We've been doing really well. I think so. At not having coffee. Overload on coffee. Yeah. We've scaled back. We were overdoing it for a while. Yeah. And now we're kind of like, okay, back in our tea era. Yes. We're waiting for it to actually be cool outside. We had a scare for a week. It was in the 70s. I'm like, yeah! I know, sweaters! And now it's what, in the 90s again? Back to shorts. Yeah, today's 91. Yeah. What's in your Life cup in my life cup cup of life. I think I'm doing well overall Feeling a little bit behind like I have to make some stuff up but feeling really I think I'm showing up today kind of proud. I feel proud today. I feel proud of us. I feel proud of us being able to stick to the commitment that we've made to this project, to this new lifestyle, to you guys, to you guys, to one another. It's a lot to keep up with and it's really fun. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not like stress doesn't come into it because stress does come into it. Right. And so, yeah, I'm really proud of how we handle ourselves and I'm really proud of how we show up here. Really true and authentic to ourselves and not letting other things get in the way of us not committing to what we've committed to, you know, because we, we talk about this a lot, what we've been able to accomplish and the people that we've been able to meet and interview that's like the pot of honey, I feel like. So I'm at the point now where it's like, the numbers are great and we have steady growth and we're so appreciative of everything. Yeah. And we are, we are growing online. we're nearing 250 followers. So that'll be our next But right. I feel like it's so hard to, it's so hard for people to talk about this, the reality of organic growth, right? A lot of people pop up out of nowhere. Right. And you're just like, Oh, 10K followers. Cool. Right. No one talks about the nitty gritty. Who the hell is Bobbie Altoff? Right. Yeah. They have these viral moments and all of a sudden they are just it. And they are just them. No one wants to talk about the nitty gritties where your milestones are 250 followers. Those are celebratory moments as well. And we appreciate every single person. Yeah, that got us to the 250. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe this episode will get us there. When you hear this yeah, is that, yeah, that's pretty much it. I'm, I'm very chilled today. Also nearing the start of my cycle, so just little bit sleepy, I guess. Well, there's a reason why we're more sleepy. We'll get into that, too. Okay, cool. I have what do I have? Brew Doctor Cherry Vanilla. Kombucha. First swig, I was thinking it was going to be a lot creamier and because they said right on the thing that it's is inspired by a cola. So I was thinking like, Ooh, cherry, vanilla, Dutch pepper. It still tastes like kombucha. Yeah. I don't think you do the tang, right? I don't. Yeah. And I don't think that brew doctor particularly is usually very vinegary for me, but this one's kind of giving vinegar. Oh. Like you could taste it more almost. Maybe because they tried to make it like soda? Maybe. It is very It's like a combination. It tastes like I put apple cider vinegar in it. it's good. It just, I think I had a different vision. Right. For me when I think cherry vanilla I'm thinking a cream soda girl. Yes! Give me the texture. I'm thinking cherry vanilla Coke, cherry vanilla Dr. Pepper, like a treat. What did they call them in the, in the olden days? A soda fountain? A soda fountain, where you would go and you would like order like, and they would mix the shit. Live in person. Yeah, if you ever heard some racist ass days though if you ever come with me, too Yeah, for sure. You ever come with me to my hometown. We still have one of those. So are we allowed in? What is it called? I forget what it's called. I think it starts with an a it's Albert's or something like that. That sounds really cute. But they have ice cream sundaes and they have sodas and floats. Yeah. Yeah. And they have like candies and stuff. How freaking cute would it be to do a photo shoot and dress up in our little but like culturally respective like eras. Yes. Yes. Ooh, that would be really cute. Right? Because you're thinking 50s, right? So you'd have to look back to your specific culture to see what the girl you're wearing. Exactly. Exactly. So life cup, life cup. I, yeah, I'm showing up kind of chill today too. Kind of like I said last week like grateful feeling full circle moments and just trying my best to be present Mm and I think coming off of Hispanic Heritage Month I'm really proud of all of the episodes that we released. Mm hmm the solos and the guests obviously and I'm just trying to like we enjoy this week because I'm jet setting again Every time. It's like I get back, I settle, I get back into my routine, and then it's like, oh, I gotta go on a trip again. Time to pack up my entire life. And this time it's for an extended period of time. Yeah. This time I'm gone for Almost two weeks. But I'm going to a wedding and my cousin, the one that I'm closest in age with on my mom's side, she's having a baby. So a little baby, a little baby. So, her Baby shower was the weekend after the wedding I'm going to so I might as well just Make a thing of it. Yeah, and all the holidays. They're gonna do all the holidays Yeah, so and as of an hour or two hours ago, I think I'm gonna meet up with Alexia Really? And the last time I saw her was at the One Direction concert in 2014. So it'll be a 10 year Reunion if we're able to make it happen. So yeah Which kind of leads us into what we're talking about today. Yes, we're trying to keep it positive. I think that the shock is still very much there for me personally. Of course, when I speak for myself that we have to say goodbye or see you later or something to Mr. Liam Payne. Even just saying it, it's just not like registering at all. I feel like I'm telling like a false story. Story false narrative, right? He's not here on this planet. Earth anymore, right? There's no like he's gonna come back later. No, nothing. No, that's the part that's really hard To grasp the day that it happened. I woke up feeling so Strange. Mm hmm. My body and my mind just felt physically heavy I remember having really dark and weird dreams the night before and so, you know when you wake up and they just kind of linger That feeling lingers with you the anxiety Yes, and I just felt really sad and I was like, Oh, depression? Is that you? You're back for another stint? It was just random, very random. Yeah, and you had left to go pick up your daughter. And I just couldn't get myself to get up and get started with my day. I laid in bed on my phone and watching YouTube videos until 1, 1. 30. And then finally got up, got ready, went to a coffee shop to go work, and that's when I got your text. Right. That he had passed. Yeah. And he had passed at 1 p. m. Right. And so I'm really wondering if my body, Knew it somehow like psychically. I don't know. Yeah before I'm like my brain is still registering it But it's like I don't know. Maybe I'm trying to like grasp at straws to make meaning, but I'm I feel like That was it. It's hard to explain. You're not being able to Like physically do something normally she's up and moving about you know, right? going on a morning walk or You Right. Doing something. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a while since I think you've slept in that late and that you were kind of just chilling in the room. So yeah, last week as a whole was just all very strange. I went to go look at a car. Proud new owner. Oh yeah. That's another update. A brand new to me, just a side note, brand new to me car finally. I love it. I have my own vehicle again and it has been since a car really, really feeling like my own. 2000, just call it 17, 2017 was kind of the last time I felt like I had a car to myself that was mine. That I took care of. Right. You're not sharing it with anybody. No. coordinate anything. No. No coordinations. I coordinate with myself and I am obsessed with my car. I'm like, uh, I just can go anywhere I want. It's fantastic. It has been a long time. The majority of my years in LA, I functioned, you know, sharing a vehicle. So it wasn't anything that really felt like, I feel like that freedom was gone a long time ago. Right. So now to have it back, it's like a little bit of a weird feeling. Apparently this whole week, or I guess last week and a half is just kind of feeling like things aren't really real. Having to come to terms with what is my new reality? Yeah. What is a lot of people's new reality? So I was there and it was the LA Times headline and I really was waiting for it to be nonsense. Yeah, I was in line ordering my coffee at a Bode and I saw your text and I literally had to stop for a second and I let the lady behind me go because I was like, hold on a second. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, what? It was like that. I audibly said, hold on. What? At the car lot. Yeah. I'm looking at my phone. We're wrapping up and I'm. We're getting ready to leave and I see the, the headline dead at 31. I'm like, no. I'm like, someone made this shit up. Something happened where people think that he is, and it's just not like the news is about to come out that it was a false report. Right. Or he would've tweeted oh no, like rumor that I'm dead again. Has that been a thing before? Oh, not, I guess not him, but you know, people. People, yes. So, yeah, it was just one of those things that I just felt off. I felt like a really weird, sad, dark energy. Mm hmm. I mean, I think that it took me a few days to really register what had happened. Yeah, we still had to function very much in like our everyday, regular life, go to work, deal with the things that we're dealing with. We couldn't just lay up. Right. And like you said, not that I didn't believe it, but I just it didn't feel real. And I mean, just to, to catch you guys up, we were fully there for that era. Oh yeah. We were, and we, we are the same age as the guys were the same age as Louis. Yeah. And so we were older fans at the time, I was fully in college when all of that was happening, but we were there for it, like, went to the tours Did all the shit. Yeah. And so I think that we not saying that if you're not, or if maybe you were a newer one direction van or you weren't there for the whole time, that makes your feelings less valid. Never. Everyone's feelings are completely valid. And I think I find myself feeling like besides her and besides my couple of friends that also were there with that time. And we're one direction fans. I don't really feel like anybody it. Quite understands. No, it's definitely very much. Feels like a virtual or online community. I mean, it really was the first boy band that blew up online. I mean, yeah, there were the Jonas brothers, but like there was barely Twitter when the Jonas brothers started, they were the first ones that from the jump were online with their entire journey. Yeah. Especially cause their entire their Formation process was televised. Yes. So definitely the first of its kind, I guess, for a boy band. We were the younger fans of NSYNC and Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears, but imagine if like your older sister or cousin was in college and they were a huge fan of NSYNC and like a huge member of NSYNC passed away, that is what this feels like. Yeah. Or I keep comparing it to like, What if a Jonas brother passed away like that's how it would feel cuz like right we were in middle school, right? Oh, yeah. We really never had a chance. I got my first album when I was like five, six years old. My mom got me Britney Spears doll. Wow. Britney Spears album and the movie for my birthday one year. I had the tape. So my first experience like choosing music that I wanted to listen to, I had a boombox. It was a gift, and I think I was maybe like seven or six. And the boombox could play music. Play, of course, tapes. And I think CDs were just kind of coming out at that time, but tapes were still huge. And they used to put singles on the tapes. Yeah. So it was maybe one more time. And I played the shit out of that tape on my boombox. And it was like my first real introduction to essentially choosing the music that I wanted to listen to. And so that just spiraled into so many other things. And I got excited to watch the Things like VMAs and all the music awards, because that's when I got to see them, you know, on TV. And then it ended up being my, NSYNC was my first concert. I never, unfortunately, did get to see Britney Spears live. Me either. I never saw Backstreet Boys live either, but I wasn't interested in them. So, NSYNC being my first concert is very telling of how I was going to grow up. We never, we never had a chance. Right. But even so, with all of that we haven't, Experience to death, like rest in peace to Aaron Carter. I mean, that's really the closest thing that I have to it of somebody from our era. Right. I mean, similarly to Liam, like Aaron Carter also struggled with drugs for a really long time and he wasn't still in the spotlight when he passed. Right. You know, Aaron Carter was famous for a very specific moment in time. Yeah. That you had to be there for and I think he struggled with that and he struggled a lot him and Nick both I think struggled very much with their family dynamic and so it really just speaks to I mean, we talk about it all the time. We're a mental health podcast, but you know, I guess this somewhat goes into what is it you kind of and Wrote down as far as how you were feeling last night, but being able to talk about the mental health of someone while it's happening and also while they're still making the choices that are not palatable or when you find out something about someone. Yeah. And it was a wrong decision that they made and it was a poor decision. And they still haven't come to terms with that, or if they've not taken accountability for it, or if they denied it and it ends up being true on multiple occasions. Something you reposted today was like, you can still have humanity about someone who has made wrong choices. Right. Yeah. And I think that that too, like the first few days was like really hard for me. I didn't have an instant like cry it out moment. Me either. If you don't know Liam, there were allegations that came out from a past girlfriend that he was abusive. And then another girlfriend didn't outwardly say it, but kind of hinted in a tick tock video. Like she was agreeing, like, yeah, girl, hashtag me to kind of shit. Yeah. Yeah. So there was that. He also, you know, just over the last few years has been kind of chaotic, has said and done some things that were off color, has said things about the other guys in the band that were not great. And so, I think at first I was conflicted about how to feel like, of course I was sad and of course it's heartbreaking when someone loses their life, especially in such a way as he did. But I was like, I don't, I almost don't know how we grapple with this. Are we allowed? Yeah. Am I wrong to do it? Am I not, am I dismissing those women's experience with him? If I grieve this person who just did not make good choices. And then ignore the bad choices. To only highlight him as the hero that he was in the band, which I will never take that away from him. But yeah, it's like, how, how do you grieve? We're all imperfect humans. So let me first start by saying that we're all completely imperfect humans. It's not like I'm trying to hold him to a standard, but abuse is serious. And the words that you say about people, especially people who were once very close to you in your life, you can never take those words back. And while we're all allowed to make mistakes, I don't think he thought of the impact that the things he said about Zayn, the things he said about Harry, the things he said about Niall that just have not been kind, I don't think he realized how that would affect the fans. Because it kind of, I felt guilty because I had almost written Liam off. I wasn't following him on Instagram anymore. I don't remember the last time I ever listened to any of his music. Like I wasn't supporting Liam, which made me feel even worse. Right. So it's like I had all these different feelings mixed together and I didn't really know what to tackle first. So at first I was almost very like stoic and Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, I just felt like it was unfortunate. It was tragic. And then you just kind of start to remember what he meant to you at a certain time in your life, because like you're saying, it probably has not been since they were together, like the band ended. And I really only care. I don't want to say care. That's not the right word. I really only listen to Zayn and Harry. and that is kind of how I was. Of course, you know, if you're a direction or I never called myself a direction, but if you are a one direction fan, you know that you basically kind of picked your lane or two, it's hard to follow five different careers. Yeah, it really is. And lot of the time it's like they're gonna go in very different directions. And they did it musically and they did. And I longer in one period. And I can appreciate that. And I admire that. I think that's exactly what they all needed individually. And so that was just bound to happen. You were going to have people that aligned more with Niall and Louis style, and then more of the. Casual laid back style of Zayn or like the poppy, folksy, really fun style of Harry. And I just, it was hard for me to convince myself to not feel guilty about not supporting him because it just wasn't my cup of tea. Right. So I kind of felt the same way. And then plus all these attitude changes and we had to figure out kind of like that he had this really interesting and slightly strange relationship with someone 10 years his senior. And then all of a sudden he became a dad, who became a dad first, him or Louis. I Louis. Louis became a they're releasing the last album. Then that's when he announced that his partner at the time, is he still with that person? I don't know. Yeah. We've fallen off. Like we, that's the other thing. It's like, we just don't even really follow their personal lives. I will be honest. I was really, And I think that it took me a long time to realize. I don't think I'm an angry person, like I don't have anger outbursts. I'm not like somebody who just walks around being angry all day, but I think that I have held anger for situations in my life and didn't realize it until after. So when Zayn left the band, I was really angry. Not at Zayn. I still to this day ride for Zayn and I was at that time, but I was angry by the way the boys treated him when he left and I was really angry at how the fans treated him like he owed them something right? What is better his mental health and staying alive? Because he said he was in a very dark time. Yeah. Or him entertaining you. What was more important? And then the racism that also followed that. I was just angry. So really once Zayn dipped out, I remember listening to the last album with the four of them but I really was not in it anymore. I checked out when Zayn checked out. I, yes. That's just the reality of our situation. Right. Especially because we, we were. older at that time. It's like we don't really have time for the bullshit. At that time, that was what, when did they release the last album? 2015, I was already 24, 25. Like I had other things to worry about and think about. I definitely was. I was trying to survive myself. You know what I mean? Right. I had just moved to a new city. I was trying to get my life together. I was like basically on the verge of having to work three jobs just to afford some ramen and rent. Ramen and rent. But yeah, I think that, I guess back to full circle it back to the mental health aspect. You really, See all these videos and things resurfacing and when they start to be Accumulated like that and then put together then you start to notice that pattern But when they're so sporadic and he's talking about his sobriety or loss of sobriety They're speaking to Liam's experience, right? with Substance abuse and alcoholism, which started way earlier than I even knew, like started very, very early into his experience in the band and was some type of coping mechanism or something that he needed to cope with the level of fame. And like you said, having to be locked in a hotel room with nothing to do and nobody to talk to, right? And just the demanding schedule that they had. Like we talked about that too. They never got to just be a normal band and do things on a timeline that felt good to them. No, they made an album. They put it out there. They did the press tour, then they went on tour. Then while they were on tour, they were making the next album. So they were recording. Then as soon as that tour that they were on stopped, they released the next album. And then a month or two later, they're doing all the interviews are doing all this shit. And then they're going back on tour. Right. I just cannot imagine that level of exhaustion. Transcribed Right. Just very, just, it's beyond tired. It's like fatigue to where your body is shutting down. When Zayn left, he looked ill. Yeah. He looked sick. And that is how I was starting to feel when all of these allegations were coming out about Liam. And his girlfriend was very present on Tik Tok and so then those started to show up. I wasn't, like we said, not really paying that close of attention to him prior to all this. And so the allegations started coming on and I started to see more of him surface up and bubble up. And this was just, you know, I don't know, two weeks before he ended up passing away. And so I, I do wonder like how much he had access to things online because people online were just, Oh, I'm sure. We're just saying. Some of the worst things. He was very present online. Like he posted on his Snapchat all of the time. He was on Twitter a lot. I think that he, out of the five of them at this current moment, is the most, was the most present with the fans still. Yeah. I think that from all of the footage that I'm seeing now, it's almost like he was wanting to be seen again. Yeah. And he was wanting to be appreciated, right? And going to all the guys shows and meeting fans outside I mean, somebody said that they got in an elevator with him and he's like, I was in a boy band, you know, it almost felt like he felt left behind all of the other boys. Cause look at all the things that they're doing. His label drops him and he's not able to release the album that he worked so hard on like things like that He probably just felt so hey, do you guys fucking remember me? Yeah, I think he anticipated having that level of fame that Harry has right and and the level of following that maybe Louis and Niall have like those girls ride hard for those boys like they're They are going to the shows are going to multiple shows right back to backs Yeah Meanwhile, I'm over here like Louis was touring. Yeah. See, and that's okay. Because I'm just so, I can't Right. I can't hold everything in my brain anymore. Right. It's too much. Five different careers is a lot. And I can love them both from afar when Nile's on. I love it. The voice, I love watching him as a, as a judge of a voice. Right. He's so great. We do it. We can. We're very grown ladies and you can't even, even monetarily, cause I know he came to San Diego. Even monetarily, I can't support everybody. We're spending 200 to go see Zayn in January, you guys, which another point is. You know, seeing all of the boys messages and then obviously Zayn reschedules his tour, which I'm so glad that he did, but we can't monetarily support everybody. No, it was already going to cost us like, first of all, we don't like driving and we are very much in our luxury life era and we're going to pretend that we can afford it until we actually can. Yeah. So it was like, we're going to LA and we are not far from LA y'all. I mean far enough for it to be an inconvenience, but yeah, it was something we had like Thought about and we're like, we should definitely get a hotel, right? She was like, I was actually thinking that. So it was like, the tickets, which were resale. So they were high. If anyone knows, I just, I'm just curious, what were they, any of the Zayn girlies that got a ticket? What were they at face value? Because we spent 200 each. Yeah. And I was fine with that because it being Zayn, you never know when he's going to come back. Right. And so I was like, this might be our first and last experience, which is totally fine. And I, I respect his choice to do it or not do it. I'm, but if he's going to be there, then yeah, I'm going to spend the money. Because it might be the only time I get to spend 400 on Zayn. Right. And then at the end of the day, that's a deal. Yeah. I saw Zayn once in my life and it was for 400. Right. So, but yeah, bringing it back. I, what really struck me first was it was very apparent that Liam was not doing okay. And he even went on a live or on his Snapchat something and said that he was really struggling with his mental health. And it just. I don't ever want to blame other people when somebody else dies. But I'm like, where was his support system? Why didn't anybody do anything? Or was it just past the point of being able to, I know that he went to rehab for almost an entire year. when will we get to a time where we can see all of these people who have died because of drug addiction and mental health? When is it going to be enough for people to say their health and them being alive and on this planet is more important than making sure they post on their story every day or they're releasing music or they're dot, dot, dot, when can we step in and say something? And when can we stop? Patronizing and bullying people online to the point where he went out knowing that or thinking that everybody hated him. Pretty much. And that on its own makes me want to cry. Yeah. Because like I said, I think he had a lot of access to what people were saying about him and speaking to a potential lack of support system. We're just making these assumptions, but who knows, like what kind of divide there was, right? Like he wasn't with the mother of his child, you know, he wasn't with his ex fiance. He was with his new girlfriend. Right. And then you wonder okay, well, where his. His parents like what did he have siblings or no? He has two I forget I know one of them is Nicola and then one of them he was really really close to and I But yeah, he has two sisters. He's the baby. Mm hmm. He has two older sisters. Yeah, so at what point Karen? Yeah, so at what point did they like? I don't want to say give up because you never truly give up on a person, especially if you love them as deeply as they love their brother and their son. But like, when did they give up or as far as, maybe let loose a little bit on. The fact that they were completely out of control of his behavior and his actions, right? If you say that, okay, I've gone to rehab for a year, right? And I've done all these things and I've tried to remain sober and worked on myself and worked on all the things that like are my triggers. And you do those things as a family member. To support that person and then later on, it's like, Oh, well, I'm seeing the same pattern that you're slipping back into. Right? Right. At what point does it? Not really become their responsibility anymore and you support them and you love them, but you have there's a fine line I mean this is coming from someone who watch intervention like on a regular basis did he have too much access to funds? You know, Did he have too much access to? The internet, right? And I think this is something you guys can correct me if you're wrong. If you know the real scooby doos, I think that he has said in an interview that because he was yanked away at such a young age, forced to cope with everything they had to cope with on his own, alone in hotel rooms. Yes. I don't think his family knew a lot. Right. He said that he struggled with like, how do you talk about mental health? How do you tell somebody you're struggling? I'm just trying to like, I'm being escorted here and shuffled here and this interview and this show and this and this. when do you even really have time to process it and then be able to reach out to your loved ones at 16, 17, 18 and be like, Hey, I'm depressed. so? Yeah, I think in his specific situation. I mean, it's sad So you always kind of want to say who done it, right? Who got him to this point was it Liam himself? Did he just not ask for enough help which I think from what we've seen he did and he said on multiple occasions He had a lot of these struggles which is hard enough to do By itself say that you're even struggling to begin with. But I, I often wonder like you saying that just kind of made me think about how do the people feel that we're on that management team? How do the people feel right now that we're basically responsible for this Group of boys from the ages that they were up until when they exited the band, right? How do those people feel because those are the people that actually could have made different choices Those are the people who could have said actually, you know From this tour to that tour to this songwriting session to that interview I think these boys are going to hit a point where they're just not well Yeah, and no, they won't be producing for us in whatever freaking machine that we've got going on here, right? They're a person They're not a cash grab. Yeah, they're human and I think that maybe that's Definitely a bigger conversation that people are starting to have more often now because it does unfortunately take this it does take rice It does what I'm wanting a severe death Right. That's what I'm wanting to point to is like the system as a whole is broken and I'm not blaming his family. I'm not blaming his girlfriend. I'm not blaming his friends. I mean, I would do kind of want to know what happened in his own management team and you know, getting dropped from his label and all of that. But like I'm looking at the industry as a whole is very. Broken and it chews you up and it spits you out. And I've said this about Britney Spears and I've said this about Justin Bieber, we failed them. And now I'm looking at Liam and I'm like, I think that the bullying contributed to it. I think that he went through a lot in a short amount of time. Mm hmm. Went all of a sudden from in the biggest band in the world to now the band's over. Yeah. And how do I cope with that? It was like the idea of relevance. Yeah. It's like one minute you have to be locked in your hotel room and the next minute you could just walk outside and no one's really bothering you like that. Right. Because now you're by yourself it's not you plus four other guys. And you don't have this entire publicity team and management team and this, the machine that is the music industry backing you and making you relevant. Right. That's the problem that I have because it's like how many child stars do we have to see be fucked up before we do something different? Yeah. Get Alison Stoner on the podcast. Oh my God. I wish Alison Stoner is doing her goddamn thing and we love it. We love that she started that conversation. She started it years ago, years and years. And I think that she Definitely is a person that will not give up that fight. She is not about to give up on this shit. I think her book's coming out about it. Her podcast is so, eloquent. She's just like the very eloquent, yeah. She's a very eloquent human being. I think that this whole situation has just been a reminder, even just in my personal life, that if you have something to say to somebody, just say it. We've made a few friends in, oh my god, not me getting emotional we've made a few friends through this band and through other bands. And I kind of like went back and forth for a while and I was like, do I reach out? Do I not? Liam wasn't their favorite. They're it's fine. they're probably like, Oh, I haven't talked to you. Right. Like I haven't talked to you in years. Like, why are you randomly reaching out? And then I like told myself today, if I'm thinking of this person and I want to let them know I'm thinking of them and I want to make sure that they're okay, like, why do I have to have a reason to reach out to somebody? Yeah. And I think that it's just reminded me of that, of if you see something wrong with somebody, if you, someone pops in your mind, if you miss somebody, anything. It's like, what's the worst thing that they can happen? They don't respond. They don't respond. Okay. But at least you are making sure you're trying to make the effort with people. So that's really like what this whole thing has brought. Yeah. For me. Yeah. It's brought on a lot. Like I said, it was not really until last night that I actually allowed myself to kind of feel the things I had been like festering. And I allowed myself to watch some of the videos that I was definitely skipping past because I just knew I wasn't really ready to. process all of that. And then, yeah, just speaking to why we're tired. What we spoke about earlier is we were just kind of sending videos to each other back and forth. But a part of that was really cathartic and it was really part of you have to feel to heal. And so being able to watch those videos and being able to kind of look back on certain memories of him and how we remembered him and not all these allegations that were circulating in the rumors that were circulating and the photos of the hotel room. all that stuff was what we had to see first, right? Right. Because it was just the news. until you let those things dissipate. For a few days and then you started to see more of the tribute videos or the fans sending up vigils everywhere you guys like One thing about girlies is we're gonna get shit done and we're gonna invite everyone to the carne asada. Okay, Mexico City, Argentina, of course where unfortunately took place all over LA I think San Diego did one and just some pretty much every major city city and every country I saw, like Germany, I saw like Jakarta and Indonesia, all these places setting up vigils. It's so unfortunate because there's girls that even are saying my boyfriend's making fun of me for crying or I never felt free about loving one direction. Cause my family would make fun of me of like, Why are women, girls, whatever, any age group, Why are we made to feel bad about being passionate about something that we're literally, I'm not saying I wasn't saying we're carrying on our back, but in a way, yes did they do the work? And did they put out the music and go on these tours? Yes, but I gotta sell the tickets to somebody. The reason that they had all that is because they blew the fuck up. Yeah. And we're still showing up. I'm still spending lots of money to go see Zayn. Yeah, you know, and I would have spent a lot of money to see Harry as well. My daughter loves Harry. If you think that I'm not going to use my last bottom dollar to go take her to see Harry when she's ready to go see him. You know what I mean? We're carrying on something that like is an experience. Yes. Why are we shamed for having experiences? Right? Like I said, it's really weird. I really wanted to like, Wear merch today. Yeah, and just be comfy and nostalgic. But I Don't have anything and I went to four concerts And I never bought anything because one, the merch wasn't the greatest. It was kind of juvenile and marketed towards 12 year olds. Yeah. But two, I was embarrassed. Yeah, I was embarrassed. I was like, I don't, I know I'm not going to wear that in public anyway. So I don't have 80 to spend on a sweatshirt. Right. And now what's funny about all that is like the secret fans are coming out. Yeah. I'm like, Oh, so y'all too, you just didn't say anything. Right. Not all these men knowing words. Like the lyrics. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, okay. So now that everyone is trying to mourn and grieve and celebrate now it's like out the woodworks. I remember I tweeted or I said something on my Instagram story when Jonas Brothers kind of had their little comeback moment after Nick almost ruined the band. We'll never forget. And I said, and like all of a sudden people started to like, Post things and there was no shame in loving it. I'm like y'all I swear to God I've been here since 2007 and y'all used to rake me. I'm like, oh now it's cool. Now. I see y'all right right now It's cool to like them. But right but before I was a nerd or right or they were gay which is so what? I'm like, they're brothers first of all, so that's weird that you're making those assumptions, but to I was on AOL messenger crying when Nicholas got diagnosed with diabetes as if he was going to fucking die. Yeah. You know, that's how they, yeah, it was a little bit longer and he'll be fine. It was marketed that way. I'm there's no doubt about that. It was definitely like, it's sad because we joke about it now. It's like, this is sad. This is how it has to be because I have comic relief 11 and 12 year olds had no business pretending like somebody having diabetes was Life ending, but for us, we understand what the hell was diabetes. I don't know what that is. I just, I like remember specifically, I have such a vivid memory of his brother's talking about it and his brother's talking about it was what kind of made it and his parents too, was what kind of made it so next level is because their reaction was so emotional. Right. I made this joke the other day because it was Kevin and Kevin was like, he was just drinking so much water. He was just so thirsty all the time. And I'm over here crying oh my god, you're so right. You're so right. So much water. He was so thirsty. He was so thirsty. He was dying. It made me grow up with this like fear of Oh, if I'm drinking a lot of water, does that mean I have diabetes? Or Oh, I'm extra tired today. I have type one diabetes. Right. But anyway, there's a Tik Tok sound going around right now of it's okay to be a fan. And in fact, it's good for you to be a fan of something because that's the zest of life. It's the sparkle. It's the fun. Why are we made fun? Of for liking things that's so stupid men are never made fun of for liking fucking baseball and football literally crying over football teams and crying when their teams lose right it's like i i actually should make fun of you for that but i don't because i don't give a fuck what you like or don't like and starting fight imagine physical fights physical fist fights getting blackout drunk abusing your family on a sunday because your team your team Who doesn't know a thing about you. Yeah. It's the same shit. Oh, you care about, you care about that band? They don't even know who you are. Like, why do you care about someone you don't even know? I don't know. Why the fuck do you care about Tom Brady? The obsession because we don't care as women. We mind our business so hard We don't care about what you like or don't like. We occupy that much of your brain that you really have to think about like right? I guess it goes for everybody right stupid women and men Whomever right makes fun of another person or shames another person for being passionate about something for something for being a full on Fan right caring about a celebrity or a person you've never met get a life Yes, we already have ours. Okay, we're living it. Yeah, that's why we don't care about you And it's like the hiding it so I had to go to work not the next day, but the following day after this all happened and There's a girl who's close ish to my age and she like came up to me and she was like were you One Direction fan? I loved them. I literally went to bed at 7 p. m. last night because I was so upset. I cried myself to sleep. I'm like, Oh my God, girl. Yeah, into it. Yeah. And then one of the other coworkers that was standing around and he's like, probably our age, if not a little older, like mid thirties. Okay. He's like, if you ever bring this up, I will never, ever admit to it. And I'll call you a liar, but I love Harry Styles. And I'm like, why does it have to be, why is it a secret? He's like, yeah, me and my toddler, she loves to listen to him in the car. It just makes her so happy. And why wouldn't you share that story? That's like the most beautiful story ever. I'm like, and I literally said to him this actually made me like you way more. Yes, because you for once shared an authentic thing about yourself. Yeah, joy. Yeah, and you're not trying to be this hyper masculine, right? It's not weird that your child liking something Yeah brings you joy and then of course you're going to love the thing that your child loves Yeah, because that is bringing them joy and they bring you joy They can literally pick their nose and flick it and that's gonna make me laugh and make me happy cuz they're my child Yeah, why wouldn't why would you not share that right? We get down to 4Town in the car, okay, because it makes her happy. Yeah, I literally will get in there and I'll be like any music requests because I care about what she cares about. I want her to know that she can care about anything she wants. Yes. And, and if anyone tries to give her any type of lip, I am the mom to go to the school, unfortunately. Absolutely. I am there to get a visitor badge. And stare into the eyes of anyone who speaks to my daughter any type of way. She won't need it. She won't. That's the thing. She will stick up for herself. But I am still the type. So don't let it get to that point where if she's sticking up for herself and it's still not working. Oh. uh, which kind of leads me into, I mean, we obviously have gone into the darkness and his shortcomings and things like that. I would love to end the rest of the episode on a good note. Yeah. And I had to have a moment where I told him I'm sorry privately. you know, I'm sorry I turned a blind eye. I'm sorry that I let the things that you did that I didn't agree with change my view of you. So forgive me and also I love you and thank you for everything. Oh my God. Just say it. You gotta let it out. I was going through a lot in that time when One Direction started. I was just going through a lot in my family and in my personal life and even just mental health. I was just in a really dark spot and I think that's why I Clung on to them so much. I'm like, Oh my God, like the serotonin, the dopamine that my brain's not making on its own. Great. Yeah. And like just the fun songs and side note, a little story time that I wanted to tell. Danie and I kind of have one direction to think for becoming close because we met my freshman year of college, which is a different story for a different time. As far as just the religious trauma, I only was. Right. Yeah. I only went there for a year because that's literally all that I could handle and Dani was living off campus. But one of her family members was my roommate and that's how we met. And I only went there for a year, but the following year I came here. When I first met you, you lived in the other house. And when I came to visit you guys, it was spring break and I came here and their first album had just dropped. And I didn't really know I don't even think I knew that you were a Jones Brothers fan at the time. I didn't know. I didn't know that you were a fangirl, you know? Well, no, because again. The embarrassment, the having to suppress it because if you did that, you were not cool. And then being so involved again, different story, different day, but quickly being so involved in a controlling organized religion you were really made to feel if your focus wasn't God, then you were a loser. And you couldn't have any other interests other than like just trying to be the most Perfect human being on earth. And so that was kind of a time where I didn't allow myself because then it was like, I was guilty and I was a sinner. Right. And it's like, well, why are you, that's so, they're so worldly. Why are you supporting someone of the world? Yeah. It's But anyway, back to the story. I came out here for spring break and we were hanging out in the, when the TV room was in the other room And I started playing stole my heart and this bitch starts Amy polar mean girls dancing in the doorway. And I was like, Oh, I know what she is. You can spot that bitch from a mile away. And yeah, at that time I think I was like, In this weird limbo of still being kind of involved in it, but realizing a lot of stuff on my own. It's, like, early 20s, so, a lot of stuff is developing upstairs, you know? And so I think I was kind of, teetering that line. I'm like, I'm getting back to my roots. Oh, no. Everybody watch the fuck out because she's back. So I had definitely quieted that part of myself for a long time, which is why that part of my life just didn't even really feel like just like a genuine part of my, myself. I just didn't feel like I was experiencing myself. In my own life. Does that sentence even make sense? Like I wasn't able to associate it. Yeah, I was not experiencing like the full breadth of myself. Like I was not able to go there because all those things were just not allowed to happen in the lens of somebody else. Right. Unpacking. Okay. So yeah, to this day, stole my heart is in the top five. And if you don't know what we're talking about, that song is slept on. If you know, you know. Justice for Stole My Heart. Stole My Heart stands. Please rise. Yeah, for five minutes. I think it's why I was a Louis girl. Cause that's such a Louis song. Really? I feel like it's such a Liam coded song. But he sings it. Every time I hear that song, I immediately think of Liam. I just hear Louis voice. Louis doesn't really sing in that song at all. What? Yes, he does. I have to play this. The verses are Liam and the choruses are Harry. What? Yeah. There was never a music video for that, was there? No, I don't even think that they ever performed it. Cause it's such a dance pop song. I'm so confused. In the club, we all fam. If they played that somewhere, I would fucking pop this pussy immediately and immaculately. Joy. Oh no, Joy. I was oh my God. Why did I think it was on take me home? It's on up all night. It's on the first album. Okay, now I'm remembering it's Liam. I knew it was Liam. I mean, What the hell? How do you not get up out of your seat? You hear this shit right now? I know this is Liam. Yeah. This is where it, so I have to physically be in it. I have to be watching the videos. I have to be listening to the music for me to be like, Oh, that's real. I'm still able. To be like, that is here and this is here. Compartmentalizing. Yeah, I very much am good at that. Yeah. I think it's a trauma response. Fast forward to the second verse. I think that it's, I think that they're both Liam. Ah, cute. That's Harry. Is it? It is. It's so high. Well, yeah, he was like 16 at the time. He's like 12. Okay, and again, and then I think Zayn does the bridge. Am I about to get to the bridge? Zayn on the bridge. You're right. I don't know why it's Do I remember him writing it? Did he write this one? No, at that time they didn't do any of that. Written by Jamie Scott and Paul Newman. Where did I get all confused? I swear, I could swear up and down, I would bet money on that. That I thought it was a Louis song. Also because I, first of all, didn't even remember it was on the first album. I thought it was on the second album. Oh no. Can someone do an EDM remix of that, please? Oh, I'm sure there is already. Ugh, I need it. I need to know, does anybody else, when you listen to Stole My Heart, do you have to listen to it twice or do I just have OCD? I listen to the full thing, it gets to the end, I'm like, no, it wasn't enough. Replay. Every time. I can't just listen to that song once. Is it every time? Pretty much. Today on a walk, listened to it twice. Oh. The other, when I found out and I was driving, because it reminds me so much of Liam, I was like, Ooh, dedicated to Liam. And I listened to it and I had to listen to it twice. I don't know why I just completely did not. I don't know where my brain, I don't know what my brain was doing. I know Liam sings the whole fucking song. And that, that album, honestly, it was mostly him and Harry holding it down with Zayn on the bridge. That's literally, Oh yeah. It took Niall and Louis a minute. Yeah, it took them a minute. They had to kind of figure out what their sound was. Hashtag let Niall sing. Remember that I remember that on tumblr there was a petition they were in an uproar they had to get 50, 000 signatures, I feel like we could go on for three more hours But I did want to like I think some of my most favorite memories was yeah just the friendships that got formed around having the same interest and having the same amount of adoration and love for these Five young men who just made us happy. And I think I said this in the last episode that saying you're happy is very underrated and just not said enough because it just matters. It matters that you have joyful moments and matters that you make connections with people and it doesn't matter what it's over, right? If it's Pokemon, if it's fucking Dungeons and Dragons, whatever, if it's Club Penguin, if you know, you know, if it's Neopets, you guys remember Neopets? I loved Neopets. If you have a connection with someone over anything, cherish that and nourish that because you can let a lot of people in your head. That will mess up who you are genuinely and authentically. Yeah. And so I think just some of my favorite memories are building on those relationships and building those connections and being able to I think just get along so easily because you did have that one thing in common. And then the more you hang out, you're like, Oh, actually we have more than this in common. Right. And now I have a friend for life, right. Or I have multiple friends for. different eras of my life, whatever it is that I'm interested in, in that moment. Right. And I can still reach out today. Alexia texted me right after you texted me, you know what I mean? She's like, you're the first person I thought of to talk about. Right. You're always going to have that, just like I have my bitches from Miley world, you know? Yeah. And you're people from the Jonas Brothers. Yeah. You're Jonas Brothers era. You know, it's like you always have that and maybe you go 10 years without seeing each other. Right. And years without talking. It's like you always are going to have that connection because every time I think back to that time, it's you and me. Mm hmm. You and me in your Honda Civic. Yep. Driving to Los Angeles. All the time. Bumping the albums. Yep. Meeting up with our girlies. Yep. Going and getting some Urth Cafe and fucking shit up. Yeah, wreaking havoc. Wreaking havoc in Los Angeles. Study Los Angeles. Going to the Rose Bowl, girls. This is the 2013's to the 2014's. Yes. Those were a goddamn time. It really was the height. It really was the pinnacle. And you guys, just so you know where we were at in comparison to everybody else, everyone else was having to go with their parents to the Rose Bowl for, what tour was that? That was Where we are? I think so. Where is where we are, the one that Zayn left. What was the one that they toured for Midnight Memories? I think it was called Where We Are. I joined the One Direction Reddit. It honestly is a great time in there. I bet. Up All Night, Take Me Home. Four. They're skipping one. That was the album. They're skipping one. X Factor Live Upload Night Tour. I want the Where we are. On the Road Again. Oh, yeah, thank you. It would just I didn't go to that one. That's the one where I didn't go to, the On the Road Again. You went with Ashley and Nora. I did. Before they knocked down Qualcomm. And I forgot that I went. That's because I was looking for Zayn and he wasn't there. He left right before they came to the U. S. Oh. They were over in like Asia or some shit. That's right. He left in the middle of a tour. Yeah. Yeah, literally was like, Mom, do you have a bed for me? And like literally just left. Wow, I remember Harry punched a wall or some shit Zayn threw Liam up against the wall They all got in a huge ass fight and it was also around the same time That he had allegations that he cheated on Perrie and he made that post. I love a girl named Perry Edwards. Oh Remember it was all of that and then naughty boy And Louis was like subtweeting Naughty Boy and they got in a fight and then Zayn had to tweet back at Louis and be like, mind your fucking business. Oh my god, I forgot about that time. And that's when I checked the fuck out because I'm like, I'm done. Yeah. We're not doing this. Yeah. Oh my god, yeah, I definitely, hello? I'm too old for this shit. What do they call it? Amnesia. Not me forgetting what amnesia is. What is that thing called when you forget something? Yeah. So, what did we Yeah, where we are tour. Where we are tour. We're at where we are tour, and everybody's there with their parents. And we are in the parking lot taking fucking fireball shots. Okay? Absolutely delicious. We were fucking lit. It was great. Wait, it was fireball. And then we got a fucking cider. Yeah. Spicy apple cider. Yeah. Oh yeah. We had to do it because it was, it was a lot. And it was getting to the Rose Bowl in general is a lot. It was a lot. And I think we did it twice. We did do it twice. We tried to do it thrice. We did do it thrice. We got there and Marge was like, you better be back because I'm picking your ass up. It's not a good story time, but it is a good story time. So, this was definitely when we were at Galavanting around the city. And so they did the three nights at the Rose Bowl. And we did the first night. We did the second night. Second night was on a whim. We had tickets, I think, for the first night. Yes. Yeah, second night we were like, we're not doing anything else. Let's just go. Yeah, cuz our friend was like, I don't fucking care We're going right now. I'm buying the ticket. She's like, I'm buying everyone's tickets. We're fucking going. I'm not missing it. We're like, okay Shout out Nora Liu. Shout out Nora Liu. I love that bitch. And so, that same night, it was such a fun show. And when we were gallivanting around the city, we were not getting sleep. Okay. We were figuring out where, where we thought they would go in all of Los Angeles. And it was during a time where it's like you were like fangirl royalty if you posted a picture with anyone on your Tumblr. That was a also a huge time in Tumblr and everybody had a Tumblr. Everyone was on there, the Lord. So it was just an experience, you know what I mean? It's just mems. It's just all the, I wonder where some of those girls are. Cherish the mems, some of those huge one direction. 5 Seconds of Summer, you're like Tumblr girls. Yeah. I'm forgetting how like they're so, me too. There was just one girl though. She was brown and she was really cute. I think her name was Priya. Yeah. I followed her and she was my favorite. It was like, it had something to do with Zayn. I just forget what her thing was. Probably. Yeah. Anyway, we can have a discourse on this. You guys can comment back and we'll talk about it in the comments. I wish Tumblr was still cool, but it's not. It's not, I honestly would love to bring Tumblr back. It was so fun. I don't have time for it though. Exactly. Y'all, that was a time in our lives where it was like, that was a, a pretty dark time in my life too. And I was basically figuring out, I didn't know it at the time, but I was dealing with a lot of depression and anxiety. During that time. And I just thought I was weird or something was wrong with me because I just couldn't seem to get my life together or get out of bed or figure out why I was feeling that way. I just knew that I was which is basically how it's, it's how that happens. It's how you start to feel the depression, especially if you've not been diagnosed, you can't necessarily put a finger on it, which I think speaks to how a lot of people feel on this. It's like, Journey of mental health and trying to have these conversations and not knowing how to have them, right? I don't know what this is I don't know why it is but I just know that it is You go from like I was fine this day and then all of a sudden I feel like I'm in a hole and I don't Know how I got here, right? I don't know how to get out. Yeah, so I guess to put a bow on it. I'm still not at the point where I think I've fully experienced the grief, however, that's going to look for me. I will never make excuses for poor behavior, but I also do think that we need to be kind. And when someone reaches out for help, like they probably mean that shit, especially if it's multiple times. And I don't know what else we could have done to make him feel like he was wanted or loved because now he's not here to know this. He's not here to see. I guess we can't see him see it. Does that make sense? Maybe he can see it. And I think He's been showing us signs that he is present, like a lot of the stuff on the TikTok I think is really sweet, and like, all the arrows in the clouds, yeah, so I think that if it's his soul, his spirit, just his entity, if you will acknowledging that He can feel it at least at the very least, but perhaps see what he's watching. Yeah. Yeah. Seize it. You know, I, I like that and I can appreciate that, but we'll never have the physical body of Liam back. Right. And, you know, One Direction is not One Direction. I mean, it stopped being that when Zayn left, in my opinion, but I guess it really just, someone said it the other day, it's now there will never, there will never be One Direction. It's like, at least we have the possibility of it, right? Yeah, I think that that too is why it's hitting me so hard, because like I said earlier, When Zayn left and everything happened and then they released the album, just the four of them, which I don't fault them for, there's some bops on that one too. I was just angry and I checked out and so I never processed, like when they announced they were going on that 18th month hiatus that has never ended to this day, everybody was really sad. I never had that moment cause I already had checked out. And so I think it's hitting me now. Of everything from that era, how beautiful it was, all the friends that I made, how much light it brought to a very dark time in my life, and just the joy fact that we got to experience that we didn't get to experience that for NSYNC, we were too young. Right. We did for a moment, it was like Jonas Brothers, but I couldn't drive myself to go to a Jonas Brothers concert. Right. Or to go to a meet and greet. It's much different experiencing it when you have freedom. Yes. And you are in that, that spot in your life where I can go and go to any type of concert I want and take myself there. I have my own money, I have my own, yeah. Yes, I can, I can do it on my own. Right. And making those choices. I don't have to rely on my mom. To allow me to go, or allow me to do this, or buy me this, or whatever. Right. It's like I'm making the conscious choice to do something that I love and care about. That's really what it is. That autonomy it's really like a healing process to allow yourself to be able to do those things, especially in dark times. Because there's moments where you're like, Oh God, I can't function. Outside of this and I just need something to get me out of bed. And if that something is going to a show and going there with your friends, why wouldn't you do that if it's going to benefit you in any way? And I think that we both had this attitude of fuck it, we're going because we both were individually in that. Right. And so when we were together and gallivanting and doing all the things, it's like, we could put all of that to the side. Oh, for sure. You guys. I probably put 10, 000 miles at the time. I was living in Vegas. I didn't live here. She was driving. I probably put 10, 000 miles on my Nissan Sentra coming back and forth to LA all of the time. It was a lot. There was one time where we randomly Oh my gosh. We've have so many stories to share about this time in our life. And it just is relevant now because these were the years, right? These were the years that this was happening. When One Direction was like, Absolutely popping the fuck off. I mean, we're talking about filling stadiums. somebody cares about them, right? Right. And Several thousands. Yeah. In each city. And She was near the area for something family related. I'm like, well, when are you gonna be done? And she already knew what I meant by that. Yeah. So, I was like, well, wherever you are, I can be there in an hour. And then, from there, it's only an hour to LA. Okay. I was in Corona, bitch. Yeah. So I literally drove there. I was like, I can be there in 30 minutes. And I think I was, I think that night we ended up getting to LA like the fastest we ever did. Oh yeah. Cause it was already late. It was already late. We'd already done like 10 or 11. It was my cousin's wedding. So we did what is it called the rehearsal? Oh, I think so. Dinner rehearsals, just two bitches. We've never had a wedding. We're like, what is that? Fuck is that what you like practice and shit? Yeah, and then we yeah we drove our asses to LA I don't think that was for them though I think that was for five seconds. It was yeah, but it was still like they were opening So it's like yes, we were hoping that they were all hanging out together Right down nine of them and say all just having a cute time around a campfire Like that's not how it was and that's okay What we were hoping for the best. And I have one more story. Please. It's just the time to share you guys. And I do really, I do want to end this like on a high note and on a happy note. So do you remember what year could this have been? It was 2015. Oh, so like I said, the first time I came out here for spring break, but then in our friendship, every single end of summer slash beginning of fall, we would have a Vegas girls weekend. Oh yes. Danie and her cousin would come out to Vegas and we would do a Vegas weekend. And this particular time, I'm pretty sure this was it was Liam's birthday. And Oh my God. I forgot about this. Yeah, they had just finished a tour and we had no idea, you guys. We were not, we always went to XS because in my humble opinion, especially in that time period. Oh yeah. 20, the early 2010s, XS was the best nightclub in Vegas at the Wynn. And it's just, it was the vibes, you felt expensive even though I was there in an H& M dress. Who cares? And we went and we, we had no expectations. We were going to go see Calvin Harris. We're like, let's just fucking go. Yeah. I had a connect at the time who would always get us in free and would give us meal or meal tickets. Are you hungry? Little girl would give us drink tickets. And so we would be like, well, we're not paying for drinks, so let's get adios motherfuckers and be done with it. So we did. And we were in the outside portion of excess. So like by the pool, and I'll never forget this. Calvin Harris. This was at the time that Justin Bieber was making his comeback after not being around for a while, you know, after having his hard times. And he, this was like this was what do you mean era? And he had just, so what was the, what was the song that he did with Calvin Harris? But he did a song with Calvin Harris. You guys will know. And all of a sudden he starts raising from underneath the stage. And I. Got pushed in the pool by some crazed bitch in my brand new thigh high Roberto Cavalli boots, and I was so pissed. Oh yeah, she did. She took a little dippy doot. Not all the way, but she didn't get like a little stumble. Yeah. And I mean, I was like halfway inebriated. I had lost the third of us. Yeah, and so I was like halfway dealing with that. I was gonna beat up a bitch And then someone was lost and all of a sudden like Justin Bieber was in front of me and I'm like, oh what's happening here? Yes, so we get separated. We somehow all come together outside of the club. We meet each other outside of the club We're hanging around these guys approach us We were in the casino. Yeah. Okay. These guys approach us. One of them told me I'm Zayn's cousin. I'm like, yeah, what the fuck ever? No, you're not. We're hanging out with them by the slot machines, like on the way to the entrance of the club. And all of a fucking sudden who walks by us? The posse. Security, security, security. Paul and Niall and Liam and Louis walked past us. With a huge group of people. I mean, we're talking like, was it? I only remember them. I think I blocked everybody else out. I like barely saw them. Yeah. It was like a lot of people around them. It was like, I think they each had at least two security. I would like people they were hanging out with. I would have thought it was, I only remember seeing them three. Cause I remember seeing, hearing Niall first before I saw him, his laugh, his laugh. I remember his laugh. Yes. And it was Liam's birthday. And I think Liam was already like inebriated. Yeah. And then Louis was the closest to us.

1:08:53

And I remember like, Louie, I love you at the club, lying

empaths-anon_1_10-22-2024_140922: 1:08:58

no, she didn't you guys. I was his biggest hater. The biggest hater. Listen, this is us many, many moons ago. Now we have a much different appreciation. This was me at 23 years old, At the time, Louis's personality. I think I just stared with my mouth open. Yeah, I think you did too. I think that I was the only one that said anything. Was I? Did you say anything? I don't know. I feel like I said hi. If I said anything, it was hi. I don't know who I said it to, but I said hi to somebody. We honestly were elite for the fact that we were the same age as them, so we were able to be in the same places they were without trying. Right. We had no idea. Major coincidence. We had no idea that they were staying at the Wynn. We had no idea that they were going to be at XS. As far as we were concerned, they were following us. We had been going to XS for years. For years! It's our stomping ground. It's our regular spot. We went there every day. Single summer. I'm like, what are you doing following me here? This is my club. This is my place. Get out. I just got pushed in the pool. So now you're there and Justin Bieber's there. What the fuck is going on? Where is Zayn? Where is Zayn? I don't think he was there that time. No. It was just the three of them and not Harry because he, he's openly said many times that he hates Vegas. Oh. He doesn't like Las Vegas. A lot hate Vegas. It's not really my scene, you know. But yeah, that's, that's a funny story is that we actually accidentally. Yeah. After trying for so many years, and we did it on accident. And I remember them being kind of nice. Am I making that up? They were very in a rush. They wanted to go to the club. But they were not rude. They weren't rude. And I think that they didn't stop. I'm want to say that I think that we answered back and said, I love you too. And I was like, well, I was lying, but thanks. I didn't mean it. It just came out, bitch. It just came out. And I will justify myself here. I think sometimes the only thing that will come out, you know, what it's like, there's nothing else I can say. What else am I going to say? Nothing. I can't sit here and talk to you for 10 minutes. I know we're not going to have the interaction. The same thing happened with me and Ashton, not the first time I met him, but when we were. And I got an undisclosed location and I had way too many people in my little car and I got kicked in the head when they were trying to get out and she kicked me really fucking hard and I will never forget this. We had to sprint across the street. Oh my god. Okay, yeah, that's it. That's it. Was that story going somewhere? You got kicked in the head. I just told Ash and I loved him. Oh, because you were delusional. I had nothing else to say. You were delirious. They were, they were getting ready to go somewhere. They were loading up into the car, but they were, yeah, outside of the hotel. I do remember that now. And I kind of, stared back, again, not knowing what to do or say. Right. And so I was like, love you. He was like, I love you too. Love you too. I do remember that. Probably cause I wasn't inebriated at that time. That was before the One Direction thing though. That was like, that was before we saw Liam and Louis. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway. Yeah. That does happen. You just start to say, I love you.'cause that's all you can say in three seconds. Was Zayn not there because he had already left the ban at that point? 2015? Could have been. I think so. Could have been. I think so. So yeah, you sometimes just say shit like, you remind me of my brother. Okay, we don't need to share that one. See, that's what happens. Joy fell off because she's talking shit. I'm not ready to share that story yet. That is weird. We could get into it, you guys. We've really held back but it is how we became friends. It's like you can't really, I have to stop being ashamed of it because it is part of my story and it is part of my life and it was a huge chunk of my early 20s. Yeah. I can't just erase that. No. Cause you got busy cause you started working at one at the winery. Yeah. So you just couldn't just pick up and do shit wherever. And I was in Vegas. I couldn't just drive to Vegas every time. Right. At some point we did stop caring. We got it out of our system. We did. We're like, look, there's only so many pictures I could take with these guys before they're going to start to think that I don't have a life. Because in reality, if you have time to do that, I All the time, every single day. You really don't. Right. And some of the girls that were doing that were still in high school. So it's of course they have time. What else are they doing? Yeah. And then that's not who we were. I mean, That's not how I wanted to be remembered. We had to start getting our life together. We were like 23, approaching 24 at that point. Yeah. So it was like, That's not how I wanted to be remembered by any of them. Right. It's like, we gotta stop this. It was embarrassing. We got our pictures the one time and that's pretty much it. Yeah. But yeah, I don't think we really. Have that much of a, of a prayer but we will say, We love you, Liam. We appreciate everything that you did for the band and the talent that you brought and the connection that he was the glue. Yeah. The connection that you brought, because I think that it was very important for them to have that. And make sure that they were kind of on the same page, and if he was even somewhat responsible for that, we owe him a thank you. And we'll miss you. I love you, Liam. I really don't think that One Direction would have gotten as far, even an X factor, because he was the experienced one, and he was the one putting the motherfuckers in line. Yes. And so if it was, imagine if it was just the four of them fucking about. No. I don't know if they ever would have gotten past the first. Yes. So if you are out there and you're listening, please know that while there was no front man of One Direction, you were a huge integral driving force and your feelings were valid and I'm sorry that we didn't always appreciate you. But we do love you and your memory is always going to live on and I do want to just address the fans as well. Don't be embarrassed about your grief. You can cry for as long as you need to try to find some kind of outlet. Like for me, this is the outlet. Was my outlet today because it's like, I can't just make a random like post, it just doesn't feel authentic to me and I'm like, I don't even know what to write down. So it's like, I don't really want to journal about it. I can't just keep scrolling on my phone on tick tock. So I need to do something. Mm hmm. That's how I felt last night. I was like, there's only so many like memory videos that I can watch, but it's just like my feelings aren't going anywhere. I'm not talking about it. I'm not processing it. I'm not even figuring out what it means for me at all. Right. Yeah, that's that's basically it. Take care of yourself. Take care of your mental health And if there is somebody that you want to reach out to just reach out. Yes, it's okay And let's try to Be better the next time with the people that We love who give so much of themselves to us and so much of their talent and lives are just displayed for everybody. Let's try to keep that more front of mind the next time that this happens so that we can hopefully avoid it. I'm tired of seeing it happen again and again and again. I really think that Liam will be like our generation's Elvis. Elvis was in his 40s when he passed, but like my grandma never got over that shit. Yeah. My grandma was sad about Elvis forever. Right. This will be our new normal. When you talk about One Direction or when you share memories or when you share stories, you have to talk about now Liam being the first one to pass from the band being only 31. Yeah. It's a part of every single story that you're going to share. Yeah. It's a part of every single memory. Yeah. Because that is what's left of it. It is the reality that when you are sharing these things, it's like a constant reminder oh, but wait it's not that anymore, you know? Right. He's not here anymore. So that's gonna, like what you're saying, your grandma experience, you don't ever get used to that. You don't ever become accustomed to that. So it is going to feel very weird for a very long time and we just have to be okay with that part of our grief. Right. I mean, I loved Mac Miller in a different way. It but like I still when I think of Mac Miller, I'm still sad that he passed away. So be patient with yourself, give yourself time, try to find an outlet and be kind to each other and do not go to that funeral. There are people online that are trying to go to the funeral. It's not for you. What's for us is the vigils and the meetups and the reddit threads and all of that. We're already doing it. If you want to find something that will help you grieve, it's not to involve yourself in the family affairs. I'm sure that there's gonna be people in the streets lined up like just for expressing their gratitude and love, but don't try to go in there and leave the other four boys alone and give them their time to grieve too. Right. Right. Even if it for instance, we had tickets to Zayn this Sunday and I was like, 99 percent sure that that wasn't going to happen. And so when he postponed, I was very glad. Cause it could have, you never know, you never know how someone's going to process anything. He could have very well said, you know what, it's I have to honor my friend, right? I have to honor this relationship that I had with him, even though it wasn't on the best of terms prior to, but that can also affect how you greet someone because you never got that closure. And who knows, even if you, if they ever would have. Yeah. Right. Speaking of, I don't know where this information came from, but I've seen it now several places that he, that Zayn is taking it really hard. I think because of the fact that they weren't on good terms and there's that guilt and like he never, they never got to reconcile. He never got to say the things he wanted to say to Liam when he was alive, that he 24 seven. Cause people are like worried that he's not and in a good place. So. Thoughts and love and good energy to all of them. They're all going to process it in a different way and that's totally okay. Just because one person said one thing and another person spilled out their heart does not mean that one of them cares less or more. Right. We deal with grief on different timelines. Yeah. For sure. Allow people to do what they gotta do and no judgment. Yeah. Okay? And, that's really all that I have. Yeah. If there's anything else, it'll be in the description. Yeah. We love you guys! Thanks so, so much. Thank you so much for listening. And if you're new to this episode because you also are a One Direction fan, welcome. We hope that you'll continue to listen and we hope that this provided some kind of safe space for you to relate and let some of your feelings out. If you did enjoy the episode, please leave a rating and just let us know and we will be on social so we are available to talk to if you want to talk. The gyms are open. Yep. If you want to throw in your favorite memory of Liam or what you loved about Liam, do that or comment or anywhere. We'll be on the YouTubes. Yep. Okay, y'all. I don't know how else to close this out. That's really it. Yeah. See you next time. Bye. Bye.