Elphaba Is A Fellow Empath! | Our Wicked Movie Review

WE HAVE AN ANNOUNCMENT 👏🏽👏🏽  (and this is also your spoiler alert)

We are clandestinedly OBSESSED with the Wicked Movie... in the Ozdust TRENCHES if you will 😉

This week we deep dive all things Wicked – our experience being fans, cast notes, movie review, and it wouldnt be an EA review if we didn't explore the deeper cultural, political, and socioeconomic themes of one of the most beloved stories that has finally made it to screen. Buckle in!

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro + Welcome back! (to Shiz)
• 3:53 What's In Your Cup!?
• 8:21 Gallavanting for Wicked Merch
• 13:59 Getting into our love for the Wicked franchise
• 21:53 Our thoughts on the Wicked Movie casting
• 39:13 Our Wicked Movie review
• 47:38 Glinda and Fiyero as examples of allyship
• 52:03 Choices look different for everyone: exploring through Glinda and Elphaba
• 54:41 Can we talk about the VOCALS!?
• 1:02:26 "Good" vs. "Wicked"
• 1:08:01 SPOILER and excitement for part 2
• 1:14:25 Elphaba is the mirror
• 1:16:05 Variety charity pins + episode wrap up

Transcript

ea-host697_1_11-23-2024_132833: 0:00

Once she learned how to control her emotions and her feelings, That's where the superpower really correct comes through. Yeah. She wasn't ever trying to get rid of it or diminish it, even though a lot of people tried to convince her that that was the answer. It was like, if you take control over all of these things that make you whole, then yes, that is the unlimited part of you.

Speaker: 0:24

Welcome to Empaths Anonymous,

Speaker 2: 0:27

a space for dreamers, healers, and feelers, navigating the fine line between putting yourself first and holding space for others.

Speaker: 0:35

If you struggle with balancing your needs while still supporting your tribe, then you're in the right place.

Speaker 2: 0:41

Welcome to the support group.

ea-host697_1_11-23-2024_132833: 0:45

Hello. Welcome back to empaths, anonymous podcast and the special edition, the special wicked edition of empaths anonymous. I'm Crystina. I'm Danie. And we look absolutely sorry. Just ridiculous in the best way. If you're watching or I'm not watching that ridiculous, it's a sweater. No, but I have the whole, I have the full thing. I just feel like I, I love being ridiculous. We talked about this several episodes ago. I just love being a fan. I don't think it's ridiculous. We're filming an episode about Wicked. No, I know. But I mean, like to go all out, like people, people love Wicked and they don't have to do the most, but I love that we do the most Honestly, if you're not going all out for Wicked, are you actually a fan? I mean. Because we got our nails done. We went the full nine yards. We did. I feel like this is maybe because this is the most I've ever done for something in a very long time. In a while. It's been a while. I'm surprised my hair isn't pink. Maybe that's why. Because we haven't really had something like this to go out for. It's been an excitable time. Yeah. Like pre pandemic, honestly. That's true. And even like, I was in it. I was in the trenches with Twilight. I never dressed up for Twilight. Ever. Ever. I went to all of the, not all, I think I went to the first three Preview premieres, like midnight, whatever. But I never dressed up. Me neither. I never did anything special, I just went Ha ha ha Ho ho ho ho ho I did I think I did maybe one or two midnight showings for Harry Potter. I think I only did one for Twilight and then I was like, I'm off this shit. But yeah, this the the lead up to this and like the preparation. Right. It's been a time. I mean, I don't know. I just feel like it's been so fantastical. And it's everywhere when you go on social media. It's like, how can you not? How can you not be involved? Also, we've been waiting for this for 20 years. It's true. It's true. I read the book. Did you really? I did. I haven't done that. It's different. It is. It's not the play. It is. I'll tell you that. You read the original book. I did. The one by Gregory, whatever his name is. Yeah. Exactly. It's kind of dark. Huge fan over here. It's kind of dark. It is. It's a little strange. Yeah. A little bit off. Right. There's other things happening with the animals that is not happening in the book. The Broadway play. Like sexuals. Pretty sure. Like bestiality? A little bit. Weird. But like it's very common, I mean, not to, actually no, that is a kink that I will shame because I'm like, why are you trying to have sex with animals? No, it's like, no, but it's, it's as normal as it is for them to like talk in the play. Because they're kind of like people. Yes. Kind of like in Narnia. Mm hmm. Like they're citizens of society. And like all of us travels. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But that's still. I don't know, girl, I could be misremembering, but I don't think I would misremember that. That's crazy. So, yeah if you haven't already gathered, we are doing a full episode on Wicked and the significance and the anticipation and the amazing talent. Before we get into that, what's in your cup today? In my very fancy cup. Shout out to my brother for bringing these over. He's a real one. Yes. A lot of the time, all I have to do is text him a picture of something and he knows what that means. Yeah. This time that wasn't the case though. I sent it. Virgo. Yeah. I sent it. And I thought I was very clear about, you know, what it is I wanted to happen. I asked for, obviously, if they had the Glinda as well, and they only had Elphaba, which we should get into and we're getting into it right now. Racism. I mean, he's like, yeah, we got like at least 12 of those and no Glinda's. So it's like, everyone was buying up the Glinda and I'm like, you don't understand that. Bless you. I'm like, you guys must not understand that Wicked is obviously, yes, about their friendship, but it's about Elphaba. She is the main character. In fact, they gave Kristen Chenoweth more of a part when it became a musical because she was the big draw because she was the big name at that point. So it's like, they kind of built Glinda around Kristen. Yeah. But it's like in the book, it's. Elphaba is very much the main character. Yeah, we learn a lot about Elphaba. We learn a lot about her upbringing and her family life and her home life and everything. So, yeah, in my cup, in my cup is what I typically order, which is a brown sugar shaken espresso. I've been enjoying almond milk rather than oat. Oat just kind of sticks and it's not my favorite. And now that the holiday drinks are out, they've got cold foams up the ass. And so I did a gingerbread cold foam on top of my brown sugar. And it's fucking delicious. I, in my cup of life is many things. I'm obviously very excited to be here today and do this. We had very much of a time, which we'll get into. Anyway happy to have had a break. Happy to have had a full week with my baby. And most of all, just happy to kind of get things rolling as it relates to other things happening in my personal life, my career, things like that. We were talking last night about how I have to apply to transfer to a four year. starting right now for next fall. So I'll be finishing up some of my lower division stuff very soon. And yeah, I'm coming to university. I'm going to Shiz. I'm going to Shiz. What would you study at Shiz? Oh my gosh, I mean, I feel like we didn't really get into it. Yeah, they don't show a lot of the coursework because it's like that's not really the, it's not like Hogwarts. What I will tell you is no matter what I was studying, probably having something to do with the animals, like I loved the fact that the animals were the teachers. Having something to do with that whatever it was that I was studying. I would be up in that library we've talked about this, you know, I love a library loves a library. And that one specifically I was like, how do you not spend all of your waking moments there? So that's why I would be okay What's in your cup sister? I have the same thing. Yes. I have a shaken espresso with the gingerbread cold foam I love gingerbread I have always been a gingerbread latte bitch during the holiday season. Did they not bring out the gingerbread loaf this year? Cause of that. I've not seen shit. But they do have a turkey danish. It's a turkey sausage danish. And that, a turkey sage something something. That shit is a bomb. For uh, I felt like it needed a jam. Oh. I had it at the airport. I'm like, oof, there was a little cranberry jam. A cranberry. Ugh, Starbucks. Give us our royalties. Period. But yeah, that's in my cup. I have a funny story because I don't know what has taken over me with this launch. I think maybe because it's the first thing in a while that like, I can go all in on. And I just, I don't know. It feels unapologetic. Yeah. It feels like I'm, I'm happy and very thrilled to do the most. I want it all and I, I feel no shame for wanting it all. I need it all. Yeah. I think because sometimes I'll see things when there's a premiere or a release or something like that and everybody goes and gets all the things and I'm like, Oh, I wish I would've gotten that. Hmm. Kind of like what we talked about in the One Direction episode of Yeah. Not being embarrassed about what you like. Correct. And not, and then having the memory. Later on I'm like, oh, at least I got a sweatshirt or I got a shirt or whatever So this one I was like, I'm not gonna miss out right the Stanley Cups came out a while ago Which is like they started releasing stuff. Yes. What's summertime two months ago like August Oh August September they were already releasing wicked merch and I'm like, hold on hold on This isn't even coming out until like end of November, right? But anyway, so I missed the Stanley Launch they've sold out in like 16 seconds or something crazy and I didn't want the big ones I'm not really about the big honkers. No, I wanted the little 20 ounce tumblers. They were so yeah, I wanted one I remember this trick you were gallivanting. Yeah, you were around the towns. Yeah Yeah, so that happened and then when I know knew that these were coming out I saw on Trisha Paytas is She went gallivanting for the Glinda one. Yeah. And I was like, Ooh, I need to have these. And then I saw them announced on the Starbucks app and I'm like, okay, it's on and fucking popping. Yeah. So, her brother, like she said, got us these, but the Glinda's were sold out everywhere. I called every Starbucks, you guys, I called 15, 20 miles away thinking like, Oh, nobody lives there. They'll have them in Fallbrook. Who in Fallbrook is gonna watch Wicked? Nobody. Nobody in Fallbrook gives a fuck about Glinda. Just me. Yeah, so I called every single Starbucks in Temecula and Marietta and the one in Fallbrook and I was about to be defeated and then I was like, you know what? Maybe my hometown has one. Hold the phone. So I called the new, it just opened like a month ago because that's how like behind my hometown is, the new Starbucks. Starbucks in East Troy, Wisconsin, and they had one Glinda cup. Shout out East Troy! And I texted my mom and I said, Hey Crystal, I know we couldn't get it done for the Stanleys. But can you do me a solid and if you are near the Starbucks or are going to be around there? Can you please go? FYI, they close in 15 minutes. She was knitting somebody a hat because my mom has a crochet business. So she was knitting somebody a custom order. She halted that shit, ran to her truck. My mom has a huge Dodge Ram. She, in her slippers, Love. Down a one lane road in my hometown, to Starbucks, almost got pulled over. Because she was speeding. The speed limit is 35. She was going 55. Girl. To get to the Starbucks on time before they closed and I called the Starbucks and I said, hey, Someone's probably going to be on their way. They're not going to order anything. They just want to get the cup because they wouldn't put it on hold for me. Oh, so she gets there at six 57 and they already had the doors locked. And I was like, A new Starbucks to already have that attitude is nuts. Nuts. They've only been open for like maybe a month. That's crazy. You can't do that. Yeah. Yeah. And she was pulling on the door and they saw her and they knew she was coming and they wouldn't unlock the door for her. They just stood there at the register and stared at her. Little did they know that she knows people in high ass motherfucking places and her co worker and friend's son is a Opening like a store opening manager For Starbucks, like he travels around and opens new Starbucks regional and he opened that one and was still working at that one to train everybody still and She called Carter and he got the cup for me and not only that but he told those girlies you keep the doors open until 6 seconds And if somebody walks in, you serve them with a smile. So it just goes to show, don't be a rude ass bitch because you never know who that person may know. Especially in a small town. There's 6, 000 people in my, in my hometown. Chances are somebody knows Carter. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The crazy part to me is staring at her through the door. Yeah. So long story short, I have a Glinda cup coming to me, but I won't have it till December when I see my mom. And I'm manifesting one. I already talked to Richard down the street and he's call me on Tuesday. And I'm like, Richard, I will. Absolutely, Richard. I will. Yeah. So yeah, that's, that is our saga and I'm showing up today. Okay. How am I showing up? How am I showing up? I am riding the waves of life. Working on some exciting projects that I'm trying my best to keep to myself Because evil eye is real y'all and you don't want to tell people what the fuck you're doing until it's already been done, you know So working on some exciting things. We May have a photo shoot on the horizon, which I'm excited about And yeah, getting ready for the wind down of the year getting the last minute guests scheduled and yeah, I'm just kind of in a headspace of wrapping up the year, I think. Yeah, I don't know. This whole journey of the last, you know, three ish months of my life has just told me that It's safe to slow down like you don't always have to be on a hundred and ten all the time Mm hmm, so I'm kind of enjoying that. I still have an urgency obviously but using that feeling as Motivation. Mm hmm. It's a really good smell the roses Moment. Yeah, we're smelling them Yes, we really are. So yeah, just I'm standing 10 toes down on my boundaries and my values and how I view myself and love myself. and no one's going to step on the 10 toes. I'll tell you what, try stepping on them. See what'll happen, bitch. See what'll happen. See what I mean? Don't get us together. We'll read you to filth. Yeah. So yeah, that's kind of just where I'm, I'm showing up. I'm very happy to be here. This is a. release and a story and a movie that I've been wanting to happen for a long time. It was in, they tried to do it 20 years ago. Like after the musical came out they tried like a year later to like immediately turn it into a film It just never happened It's gone from production to production from director to director and like they just weren't able to make it happen interesting Yeah, you know who did make it happen John motherfucking Chu motherfucking Chu. Is that what the M stands for? Yeah, it must there's no other there's no other thing that would stand for at all It could be Michael, but I like it but motherfucking Chu Is, I feel like, the absolute way that we feel about that man and we'll get into that. I love that. Okay, so getting into it. Let's just start the start our time together sharing like what was your like experience and connection to Wicked and the Wizard of Oz world? Well, gosh, I feel like I have some of my earliest memories are always watching Wizard of Oz. It was one of those movies that like if it's on you're watching it. Yes. And it's a family film. Yeah, and so it wasn't my mom's favorite, but my dad would always have it on. Is he like secretly a musical kid? And he loves music, right? Pisces and me and my brother would watch it a lot. And I always felt you know, empathy for all of the characters. Obviously, Dorothy, you're meant to. But they never taught you to feel empathy. Toward, at the time we didn't know she was Elphaba, we just knew her as Wicked Witch of the West and she was supposed to be this evil, horrible person who just inflicted pain upon people and wanted to steal people's joy. So, going from, That version of her and knowing her in that way to then deciding to pick up wicked the novel and reading it then I mean I'm, pretty sure I saw the play in san diego in like 2008 I know I was still in high school and I had read the book prior to Seeing it so I guess I should have fact checked this before but when did that book come out wicked? I mean the book had to have come out before the play and the play premiered in 20 2003 yes Okay, 1995. Written by Gregory Maguire. Yep. And I forgot it did end up being a series. I would love to revisit the series now that all this time has passed. Right? I know. Yeah. Ooh, that'd be a fun book club. It would be a fun book club. Would you guys want to do a book club with us? Let us know. Because we're going to read them, but if you want to join us and do like an empaths book club, that'd be fun. Mm hmm. Okay. It is the first in the Wicked Years series, so the book club would be the Wicked Years. And the first one, of course, is Wicked, The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, followed by Son of a Witch, published in September of 2005, A Lion Among Men, published in 2008, October 2008, and Out of Oz, published in November of 2011. Nice. So, yeah, I forget there was that many in the series, but I haven't read any of them. Yeah, so I must have read that, you know. Maybe either the same year maybe the year before I'm thinking like it was high school time So it couldn't have been before then so 2007 I'm thinking And you read the whole series before you went to just wicked just just the first book. Yeah, just the first book Well, the only other one that I could have read would have been the second one Okay. Cause the third one didn't come out. It wasn't out. It was an eight. And I think that's the year that I saw the play. Oh, eight or oh, nine. I can't remember. But yeah, it was in San Diego. I went with my mom and her coworkers who oddly enough were just my friends also. I was like a 16, 17 year old having all these friendships with the elderly ladies in my mom's life, which I loved. And so, yeah, I think that just seeing it go from there. Of course, I wish I could have seen the original cast, but it's like being on the opposite coast. It's very difficult and very expensive. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think that it was just definitely a full circle moment for me. We'll get into the casting and why I think it was so important. But yeah, that's really, that's really it. I've always loved musicals. So yeah. So yeah, I. So another story time. Sorry. I have a cool aunt. She was always like the single aunt and she worked in like radio and media her whole life. And so I just thought that that was absolutely magical. Yes. And so she, anytime she would come in town, she would bring me something like she brought me the first Jonas Brothers album. The EP or whatever, the one with the red cover, the one that Mandy's on. It's about time. It's about time. She brought me that. She's like, you're going to love these boys. I was fine till 7. 05. Yeah, she brought that for me. She's like, they're hot, they're up and coming and the blah, blah, blah, like you're going to love them. I'm like, Oh, indeed. Okay, Auntie. Yes. She was right. She got me Legally Blonde. And so I like watched Legally Blonde for the first time because of her. And then she saw how much I loved that and fell in love with. Just the feminism and the girlhood that is Legally Blonde and I just became obsessed with it. So she's like, you're really gonna like Wicked. I'm like, oh, okay. So I never saw, I didn't see it until later, but I listened to the soundtrack right away. So I like grew up being, you know, singing and taking singing lessons and being in like plays and musical theater and stuff. So it's like, that's all that it took for me. It was just like listening to the album of the original cast. Right. And then I didn't see the show until we moved to Vegas. Cause it was on the strip as a show at one of the casinos, I think at the Venetian, it was running for a really long time. So I didn't get to see it probably, probably around the same age. I know I was like, In high school, like either junior or senior year of high school. So around the same timeline. I feel like that was pretty much around the time that it started to blow up so much. Right. That it was like the shows on Broadway were selling out one after the other after the other. And obviously this was like well after Idina and Kristen were the original witches. And so just this constant casting of these two women has just been so important and so vital on stage. So it had to translate on screen. It had to be the same. It had to be the honor. Right. That's why when Ariana said, I'm going to take such good care of her, The whole community, the musical theater community understood what she was saying. Right. Yeah. So after, so I saw the show, but even, even deeper than that, like I love, have always loved Wizard of Oz kind of like you. It's like one of those things, like when it's on, it's on. Yes. I like grew up in a family where because we grew up very. religious, I don't know why, but like classic films were seen as well, those are okay. Like the classic films and the classic musicals. I think I've talked about this before. Yes, you can watch those all you want. So I remember watching it with my grandparents and then when they re released it. And like the Technicolor or whatever for like the theaters. It was like in the nineties, maybe early two thousands. I, my dad took me to the theater to see it. Oh yeah. And so I just have like really early memories. Mm-Hmm. And I always I loved The Wicked Witch. I remember like being a child and being like, oh, but she seems cool as fuck. Yeah. My petite, yeah. Mm-Hmm. I didn't like the monkeys. The monkeys freaked me out. My mom hates the monkeys. Yeah. I loved the, I loved the witch. And then. Just being a huge Judy Garland fan, like she's like my favorite actress of all time. And so it's like, you can't, it's iconic. It's an iconic role. So yeah, that's how I, Right. Really fell in love with the world of Wicked and, of course, anything witchy I was down for, even as a child. Exactly. I love witches. But, but yeah, we can go ahead and talk about the casting, as we say, because, like I said before, it's been rumored for a really, really long time. People have been waiting to both try out to be in it and to watch it. For, you know, almost 20 years now, so it was really vital to find the right people. But how did you feel about the casting, like, when they announced it? From the jump, Cynthia made so much sense to me. I have adored her for a long time, and I'm sad that I really didn't get to see her. I wasn't paying attention to her when she was on the stage. So it's like really when she got into playing Harriet and she had that role. I was like, Oh, this is somebody that will be here. Yeah. Right. This is someone to be heard. And then of course, finding out she's a Capricorn. I'm like, right. That's I, I don't think I could say enough good things about Cynthia. Yeah. I feel like it was really important. For a black woman to be casted in this role because of. How relatable the experience is, and how much personal experience Cynthia brought to the character. Right. The same way being queer. That's true. Oh my gosh, I don't know why I didn't know that she was queer. Mm hmm. Oh. Basically everybody, I mean, Jonathan Bailey, Obviously, Bowen. Yes. Ariana's an ally, her brother. Yeah. You know, so imagine it would be like, probably was like just a big kiki all the time. I know. Right. Yeah. And that's why everyone's like, stop crying, stop crying in the interviews. I'm like, if you don't understand why they're crying, then you're just like, don't watch it. Don't watch interviews. Don't watch them interact with one another. It's like if you're not really that interested in the experience as it. As a whole, then it's just not for you. And that's totally fine. No one's making you, I get it. It is everywhere, but no one's making you stay on a video. No one's making you click on anything. They're crying for a reason. And I feel like we'll get into that, but yeah, I make you uncomfortable. Then that's more of a you thing. Period. Yeah. I wish I would have been able to see Cynthia in the color purple. That would have been so special, but yeah, I agree there. For years, there's been a lot of talk in the Wicked community because there haven't been a lot of women of color casted. Correct. As both Elphaba or Gwenda. Mm hmm. For the first 10 years, it was pretty much a Caucasian cast. Yes. And then when they did cast there were a few Latino women who were Elphaba, Okay. and one or two Black women. And just recently in the last few years was the first ever Black Glinda. Wow. Do we know where that was? I think she was on the traveling cast. The one that travels and does the tours. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so that's been something that's been talked about by fans for a really long time. the fact that the themes of the show and the story lend itself so well to what, people of color, or just marginalized communities experience in general. Why hasn't there been somebody that represents that? Wicked is so popular because everyone can see themselves in these witches. Everyone can identify either which way. And a lot of the time if you are someone who is a part of a marginalized community, whether you are a person of color or you're of a different race, Different socioeconomic status. Like those were not, you know, Elphaba being green wasn't the only difference between her and Glinda. Right. They were also brought up very differently. Like obviously Elphaba's dad was some sort of mayor, mayor. Yeah. Political figure, but Glinda just seemed to like, Always have everything right continue to have everything so it's like she had the looks she had the materialistic possessions, right? So there is someone for everyone and so I think those conversations are really important to be had now. I will say though when I did find out that Ariana was cast as Glinda, as much as I was happy for her, I think I was a little bit scared. Really? I think I was a little bit afraid. For her? For her, that she was going to be like, bullied the way that she is. Oh. I knew she was gonna kill it though from the second. I mean, it's Ariana. If you're a fan of Ariana, you know how much this means to her. And I think that that's what got me so emotionally moved. Tied in is like we've talked about this like putting yourself in the shoes of somebody who like this is all that they've ever wanted For their entire life and she in many ways has manifested this for herself Going from seeing the show with the original cast at 10 Yeah And meeting kristen chenoweth and telling her like I want to play Glinda and kristen being like well you will one day Like it just happened and I feel that way about the whole cast in general. I feel like this cast was cosmically aligned, rained down from the stars. Yeah. From the cosmos to bring this cast together and this director together at this time, at such a time as this. But specifically for Ariana, like I knew that she would kill it. And I knew that she was going to take this seriously because she's talked about When there were first rumors about the auditions, she was going to stop touring. She was on the sweetener tour. Oh The sweetener world tour and she told her team if this is happening right now, I'm out Do what you need to do, refund the tickets, we'll reschedule, I don't care I'm stopping the tour, I'm getting voice lessons, I'm rehearsing. And I'm going for it. Cause this is all, it's all she's ever wanted, so I think that that's, I've put myself in her shoes of there are dreams that I want, and if I got the once in a lifetime chance to have them, I'd be like, Mind blown. Yeah, I think I get emotional for her knowing that that's that for her. Yeah, I think so, too Yeah that's what made me nervous those that she was going to have to in the same way that Cynthia was going to have to rise all the way above And exceed people's thoughts and opinions and expectations of everything and I think just step into the character, step into the role for themselves. Yeah. And not to try to appease anybody else or, you know, Look for the review or, you know, the 100 percent on Rotten Tomatoes or you know what I mean? They it was more so like this is for me. Yeah as a person It's for me as an artist and an actor and someone who cares very deeply about the characters experience versus how can I get accolades? I don't think either of them are very interested in that. No it's very apparent that they were there to tell the story and to have the characters shine through and that there's a deeper meaning for this For all of them and I mean even just running through the cast like when Jeff Goldblum was most cast and I was like hell Yeah, right. It just makes that no better Oz. Michelle Yo. I'm like, perfect. Madame Morrible. I can't think of another person who plays evil so maternally where it's like you really want to love them, but you know, I mean, and if you didn't know the play before, I guess you didn't know before seeing the movie that she was going to turn up, end up being the bad guy. Yeah. I honestly forgot. Yeah, I honestly forgot. I knew that the wizard was not good, but The wizard's a fraud, yeah. There was so much of me that it's the, it's the exact feeling that they had the whole time, right? There was so much of them, and me too, that wanted there to just be pure goodness. But with that much power is there, right. You know, with the amount of power that the wizard had and the, what, and the attention that he garnered and this like huge leader and the most perfect leader in all of Oz, just this amount of attention that he garnered and the amount of power he gained over several years of Of really theatrics and nothing that was based in reality. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing is like it was all fake, which is very reminiscent of politicians. i'm just gonna get in here and pretend That I know what i'm doing and pretend that i'm giving the people what they want But I don't actually have true power to change things We can get that more into that. Yeah, so I forgot that she was going to be on his side, but it only makes sense, especially when you listen back to the soundtrack and you're really, really listening to the things that she says, it was like she had barely met Elphaba and then all of a sudden it's the wizard and I. You know what I mean? I'm going to write him immediately. You're the power that I've been waiting for. Yeah. Not even really like you're the person that I've been, that I've been waiting on to nurture your talents or understand your experience. And how you got here to be at Shiz and why you have these powers. It was more so oh, I found the one who's gonna make the changes. for us, right? Implement all the things that we want to get done. So it's this idea that we talk about a lot where it's like you see someone else's light, you see someone else's ability to do a certain thing that you don't have, right? And all you want to do is take and you just kind of hide behind this. Yeah. Mask or facade of I, I cherish that part about you, but really they're at their core. They want to take it. They're thieves. Yeah. Yeah. So obviously Jonathan Bailey is another Underestimated person. I feel like if you're a Bridgerton person, you knew he was going to kill it. I did, but she didn't, she, you guys bully her into watching Bridgerton because that is one thing I cannot get her to do. I can't watch it. You're going to love it once you do. I know, but this is, so this is what we had this conversation last night because we started in the Heights, which is another thing I need to rewatch because my internet was wonk to the fuck out and it was just buffering and wasn't doing anything. But I told her, I was like, there are certain things that I have to keep at a distance because then I will be like this with everything. Yeah, I don't think you'd be like that with Bridgerton though. That I suppose it's really just the people it's the it's the actors and then I'll just start to follow them You know throughout what are they doing now, which isn't necessarily like a bad thing, but it's like There's already so many things on my plate of things that I love and care about where I'm like, I can't add another thing The plates full Especially because it also comes out in the summertime So it's like my summers are stacked. Like I can't take another thing. Yeah. It's like, I'm sorry. Love Island, the summer. I turn pretty is coming out this summer, love Island, big brother. Everything comes on in the summertime for me. And so it's like, I, it's an over, it's overwhelming, but Bridgerton, I usually binge the entire season in a day or two because they only release eight, that's the thing is it's usually only eight or nine episodes for the whole season, so it's not it's like 24, So it's like an easy watch and you can get through it fast. Anyway, I digress. I did like the fun fact that he had the same horse. I thought that was the absolute cutest thing in the whole wide world. I know. I know. That might get me to watch it. He. See ya. Does such a great job and we'll talk, I guess, about his his number later, but I also kind of wanted to dip into the lore of the other people that auditioned because I have, I don't have very much information on that other than Amanda. That's all I know. So please in my enemy talk about. Is that Amanda was going for Glinda, which I feel like she could have done it vocally. I just don't know the connection. And so the rumor was her and Lady Gaga, Lady Gaga is Elphaba and Amanda Seyfried as Glinda. Well, I think that could exist in another realm. I just, no, the, the connection that Cynthia and Ariana have. I think that that was also cosmically aligned. Yeah. I don't think that could have happened with another casting like Dove Cameron, Selena Gomez, Renee Rapp. I love Renee Rapp. Do I think that she could have played Glinda? No. She's a little too rough around the edges. Glinda needs to be very refined and soft. Yeah. Yeah. And I can't really think of anybody else, like we've said, that could have played. Alphaba that's going to make the impact that Cynthia did. Yeah. Another fun fact, Not one person's coming to my noggin at all. Exactly. So, two people who applied to be Fiyero, or who, Joe Jonas. Joseph and Nicholas, they both auditioned for Fiyero. Oh my gosh. Yes. See the thing is, Fiyero needs like spice, he needs sass, right? Yeah. Oh, seeing, it's hard now having seen it. Yes. Because you're, you're just, you just know that Jonathan is Fiyero. Yes. However, if either of those two brothers could have done it, I don't know. I don't know who has more sass. I don't know who could have leaned into the sass more. I don't know. I don't know if I would have been able to see Joe as Fiyero. I feel like it would have made it feel too star studded of a cast. Yeah. Where it's I would always just be looking at Fiyero as that's Joe Jonas. Correct. I feel like Nick might have been a better person for playing the character. Mm hmm. But I think Joe has that. Bisexual energy. Yeah, which I was really like loving in the theater I was really trying because there was a girl right next to us another two other friends And I was trying to not talk or yell things out too much because I really wanted to but during his number I'm like, this is giving bisexual energy because everybody was falling in love with him Not just the women and he was flirting with everybody. I was like it was that is a homosexual man you guys that's what happens When you cast the right people. Yes. Yeah. He needed to be like the most charming person ever. And Jonathan just gives that. Right. Yeah. I don't know if I, yeah, I'm just not sure that either of them could have actually tapped into the more feminine energy. Right. They could have tapped into the flirtiness of it. Yes. But to be in this fluidity, I don't know that they could. And not to say that they're not talented. Okay. And that maybe they could have been trained up in that way, but yeah, again, I would have seen Nick and I would have seen Joe. Yeah. I would not have seen Prince Vero. And I don't know how the chemistry would have been with Ariana. No, see, I'm just not saying that because you know who I see. I don't, I'm not picturing Glinda and Fiyero. Right. I'm picturing, it was still hard for me to see, even though Ariana's Glinda was perfect, it was still hard for me to not see Ariana. Right. Because I've seen her face for over a decade. Right. And we've done so many things and have gone to so many shows and have been so involved in we're big Ariana fans. Yes. So even though she had huge physical changes and even the way her voice sounded, she was like classically trained. I just don't really see. anyone else as Fiyero. Now, I suppose if I'm thinking of a white man, maybe Timothee? Hmm, that would, hmm. Timothee could have done it. I think that could have, that's a good runner up because he can sing. We saw that in Wonka. Yeah. And he does have the charm. And he does have the bisexual energy. However, if I'm thinking a person of color, I think that opens up the, it opens up the categories. I don't know what, who I would have chosen as a person of color. Yeah. For Fiyero. Yeah. I don't know. I think that honestly. It's hard because it can't be too sexy. Right. He has to have a little bit of a, like a Prince Charming type of character, like a little bit of that feminine polished edge. Yeah. Like the Prince from, from Shrek. Yes. Shrek 2. Yes. But mommy, yes, that, and somebody who can be a little bit apathetic, uh, like, uh, whatever, right. Which is what dancing through life is. Yes. Yeah. And then of course, just like a shout out to I forget her, I forget the actresses name, but who they cast as Nessa Rose. I thought it was really great that they actually cast somebody who uses a wheelchair, who uses a wheelchair. Hello. Hello. Hello. Yes, and then Boq, of course I can't really think of anybody else for Boq, but I also I'm just like I don't know. He had like three lines. I'm not like in love with Ethan Slater, you know, but I think that he does a good Boq. Yeah, so yeah those that's some fun facts. I think that I don't want to be mean. That's why I'm gonna shut up. Okay I think that people really rallied around certain people like people were really pushing for Selena Gomez and for Taylor Swift I'm like if you think that they could have done what Ariana did, listen to the first song just the first one Her fucking whistle tones, do you think they could have done that? No, I'm sorry, I love Selina, but she can't sing like that. No, many people cannot. Yeah. Many people cannot. There are, there's a very small group of people that have that range. And on top of that, the ability to be trained to get there, even if you are not always and constantly singing that way. Yeah. There's, I'm sorry. No. That's our thoughts on the casting. I really just think it was perfect in every single possible way. And I wouldn't have recast at anybody, maybe Boq, but I also don't have somebody else I would have replaced. Right. So he's just, he's just such like a secondary. That I'm kind of just yeah, whatever about it. Yes, and I have things to say later on But now let's just get into the the review Mm hmm. What our experience seeing it. How did you walk away from it? What were your overall thoughts? Ooh I don't know. How do I sum it up into a sentence? You know what I mean? I suppose from start to finish, everything that I felt can just be summated. Is that a word? Am I using that correctly? You can make it a word. I'm making it a word. Summated. We make up words. In the we're making up words and we make up words on this podcast all the time. Just joy. It was pure joy. From the second you hear Glinda, before we even see anybody and see anything, you're like, Ooh, it's giving warm and fuzzies. It's giving I'm ready. I love that it was this foreshadowing of ultimately what happened and everything else was just kind of this memory or this story that Glinda was telling the people of Munchkin land, which I also appreciated was very diverse. Yes. I loved that Munchkinland was so diverse. It was fun. I think just as to review the whole thing, I loved that so much of it was a built set the same way we love that about Barbie. I think it makes a difference. It makes a huge difference. And it also puts the actors in the world in the world and it puts them right in the middle of where that character is. And just, I mean, I could just get into the, the makeup, she was green, but it was, it was green skin. I wanted to say that in the movie so bad, but I was like trying to shut up like you, I was trying to say that I am so obsessed with how it looks like skin. it just doesn't look like she's painted green. Right. Like in the Wizard of Oz, like it's paint. Yeah. Yeah. But as she was just. Yeah, she was green and the freckles and the contacts and the hair Yeah, and that was really important to her because I guess in early conversations. They were talking about just adding the green in Post and she was like, no, I need to like I need my actual skin to be green No, yeah, no. To fully be Elphaba and to walk into the room and not be Cynthia anymore, like I need to be green. Right. So yeah, they airbrushed her every single day. Yeah. She said sometimes it took four hours. Yeah. Sometimes it was two and a half, three and a half. It depended on how much of her skin was showing in the outfit. Mm hmm. Cause shout out to Paul Tazewell, who also designed these collections for Target. He did all the costuming and so some of it is mesh. Mm hmm. So, her Ozdust gown is meshed so you can see some of her décolletage through her, through the dress. And so then they had to do it all the way down to her titties. Or the scene where, yeah, or the scene where her and Glinda are writing letters to home and she's got this, like, pajama slip on. Yeah. And it's all shoulders. It's all neck. And it's all neck. And yeah, when I saw that scene, I was like, Oh, that was, I know that was a long day in the makeup chair for sure. Yeah, just the I am a huge person for details because I think that little things go a long way. And when you can see how much attention someone has paid to something, then that shows that they care about it just as much as the audience and just as much as the fans who have been here for, you know, 20 plus years there. Readers of the novel as well. It was a tall order and John Chu really did deliver and I felt so confident That he was the director because he's created these worlds in so many other I mean in the Heights. Mm hmm crazy Rich Asians step up to the streets Those are some of like our top films you guys, I think we have a thing for John. I think I do. We have a little bit of a thing for him. I think that he's up there with Boz. Congratulations on his new baby by the way. I know. I think he's up there with Boz Luhrmann as one of my favorite directors of all time. Cause I like that, I like directors who put you in the world. they give iconic scenes in the same way. Yes. Like for Boz, that's also Romeo and Juliet, Great Gatsby, those Elvis, I can literally get down. That's right. I, the Romeo and Juliet, I still, my favorite scene is when they meet each other through the fish tank. I'm like, Oh, who thinks of this? Yeah. Who thinks of romance in this way? Yeah. Oh God, it just gets me every time, plus the song behind it. Oh, I can't. I know. It is so good. So it's like everything coupled together that just gives you that artistry. Yes. They're just artistes. They see things in a very creative way. And like you said, the music, the visuals, everything adds to it. Crazy Rich Asians, when she's walking down the aisle and it's fairy lights and it's Pina Grannis and she's singing and it's just like, And the water the water, and I'm like, are you fucking kidding me right now? I know. I know. It's. Absolutely out of this world. So I think just to the point where I'm like, I want my wedding like that. If I don't have water trickling down the goddamn aisle when I walk down, okay, if I don't have fairy lights being floating above me, I don't want it. Get me lightning bugs. I must have them. Yeah, yeah, I think that's, that was my overall take was joy. And then obviously, The multitude of feelings, a rollercoaster of feelings, wanting Glinda to choose different, knowing that she wasn't going to. And just the empathy of it all. Right. Feeling the exact feeling that Elphaba has felt and just felt her whole life. And that's why I like when she first met Fiyero and he asked her, is like the defensiveness a new development? Well, it's, you're like, yeah. When I always have to explain myself to people, it's this idea of being ahead of the joke. Yep. You know, when she first got to the, to the school and she was like, yes, I am, I am. Green. Yeah, to pretend like she didn't know. My sister's a perfectly normal color. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I am. I am. You have to be ahead of the joke. Mm hmm. Because if you can own the joke, then they can't, they don't have the power over you. Correct. Defense mechanism. Yeah. So she learned that early on. I mean, she was getting bullied from the day she was born. Her own father. Her own father. Right. So, yeah, I think that was, that was it for me. Lots of tears because I just felt for Elphaba so much as I always have. Yeah. Yeah. I've always felt like such an Elphaba throughout the stages. Of my life, like very literally when I was like school age, middle school, you know, getting bullied and just always feeling othered and having these big feelings and these big dreams and nobody really getting it. And people just kind of trying to put you in a box. And even recently, I mean, I, the week that we released our podcast, I had to find gravity on repeat because it's just something, it's a song that's always just given me a lot of courage. Mm hmm. For something that seems as small as launching a podcast in a day and age when everybody has a motherfucking podcast, it felt like a very big step for me. And it felt like I was defying something. And it felt like I was taking a step towards the future I always wanted to build for myself. But didn't always have the confidence to do so yeah I've always felt very much like an Elphaba and really connected with her a lot Yeah, I I agree. I think that I was very emotional I was talking to your mom about it Cause she was saying like, I was just so focused on the story that I couldn't even be emotional. I wasn't really remembering everything, so I was just so zoned in on everything that was happening. Whereas I was anticipating everything that was going to happen, and that's what was making me really emotional. Yeah. You know? So I think that, The Oz dust scene like just really got to me. I was really, it was silent. I was purposely made that scene so quiet and you can hear a pin drop in the theater. And it's like, I cannot be the one sobbing in the middle of the scenes. I was like trying to be so quiet with my tears that I didn't even want to like reach for a tissue. I wanted to reach for one too, but everyone would have heard the rapper. I just let my tears fall. Yeah. And then I just mopped them up later. But just that feeling of just having everybody look at you. Mm-Hmm. and stare at you and have these preconceived like opinions of you just from how you look. Mm-Hmm. is just something that I've always really related to and like that fear of I'm gonna be the only one doing this. And then the emotions when like Glinda does step out. Mm-Hmm. I think Glinda represents a lot. Mm-Hmm. and, I think that's something that we can get into too is talking about how allyship can look so different. I think that Glinda very much overcompensates right like you were talking about before the privilege of it all but I think inside she's really trying to overcompensate because I mean she was never chosen by Madame Morrible and she would have never been if she had not been connected to Elphaba. You know, she wants so badly to be seen as this person who has it all. and revered and be the best wizard of all time. Kind of like a Hermione type of figure. Yeah. But she just goes about it in a very different way and I think that one of the things that you see in the movie and also in the play is this very like opportunistic allyship. Mm hmm. Like when she makes the announcement that she's changing her name from GaGlinda to Glinda. Mm hmm. As an act of solitude with or as an act of what is it? I think she said solidarity. Solidarity, not solitude. Yeah, and it's like well you never cared before but it's like it felt like very much 2020 when everybody was posting the black boxes on their Instagram. Mm hmm It's a formative social justice. It's more about how it makes you look. Mm hmm and not necessarily that you're trying to help to do it Whereas Fiyero I have all these theories about that too with the poppies and how everybody was falling asleep Just the fact that it's so easy to go back to sleep and to ignore things when the going gets tough and when people are being marginalized and people are, you know, in a spot where like their lives are being changed, not by their choice. And it was really interesting to me that the arrow puts on this whole facade that he just doesn't give a fuck about anything. And Elphaba really calls him out on that. And she was like, well, you're the only one that was here with me. Mm hmm. And that's for a reason. How are we feeling about spoilers in this episode? Spoil it. You have not seen it by December, whatever day we're putting this out. But I mean, I mean, foreshadowing for the next part. Oh, you just have to, I mean, if you're listen, if you're listening to an episode about wicked, right. And I will put it in the title. It'll be spoilers for part one and part two. Yes. It's been out for 20 years. People are already talking about it on Tik TOK, but just the fact that The poppies don't work on him in the Wizard of Oz either, because obviously, if you know the story of Wicked, he gets turned into the Scarecrow because Elphaba's trying to protect him, right? And so when he I didn't know that! You didn't know that? No! Oh yeah, she does that whole Alakazam, na na na na na na na, she's doing a, uh, spell to protect Fiyero. Because she doesn't want him being tied to her to negatively affect him. Yeah. So she turns him into something that he can never die. And that he can never be destroyed. It's a fucking scarecrow because they're not real, right? Yeah. Full of straw. Yeah. And it's also going back to this whole idea of dancing through life, like life is painless for the brainless, like if I only had a brain, you know, and so in wizard of Oz when they're going through the poppy fields, he's the only one that doesn't fall asleep. Oh my gosh, the scarecrow. So it's kind of like a, because the wizard of Oz was always a movie. Yes. Right. So. Book. It was, right? Yeah. So. It was a kids series. Really, how it originated. J. J. L. Baum. Okay. Frank Baum. Okay. So Gregory Baum took certain details from Wizard of Oz and he said, this is going to make sense here. This is going to make sense here. Yes. That's so interesting. Yeah. So it was always a book before it was a movie. That's what I thought. Yeah. So, yeah, it's just interesting seeing in that way. Comparing their activism and their allyship. I think that Glinda's superpower, even though she doesn't have real powers, her superpower is that she always sees the good in people. And you eventually see that with how she sees Elphaba, like when she tells her you're so beautiful and she kind of gives Elphaba that confidence to do it. She helps her see herself a little bit more. She does. That's Elphaba's superpower, which I don't think should ever be underrated, but I think that there's a difference. In allyship, and I think hers is more opportunistic because at the end, you know, she makes the choice. Yeah, she does. And it is a very real choice. I think people argue over the fact of was it a choice or did she have no choice like no, she she did have a choice. She didn't have a choice. And I think that she represents a lot of people who would have done the same thing. I think we do it every day. I think we face different life situations. Every day where we can choose to be the Elphaba or we can choose to be the Glinda and more often than not like to Protect ourselves to protect our reputation to protect our own self interests. We choose what Glinda would choose all the time Right Glinda is not this bad person the same way Elphaba is not for right defying the status quo wanting to do something Completely different wanting to rebel against what she knows is inherently wrong, right? I think that she knows that she can't make the same choices that Elphaba can, or she doesn't have the courage to, why she makes the choice can be up for debate but I really do feel like she knows inherently that she just can't, and there are things in life that we see other people make a different choice than us, and I'm so glad that they're making that choice, but I'm just not in the position to make that choice. Mm hmm. Yeah. Because life looks different for everyone. Right. So Glinda knew that she just didn't have the, well, number one, the powers or the capability to escape in the way that Elphaba did, right? She would have to rely on, I guess that's, that's part of it too. It's like, will I lose my sense of self or my individuality? If I'm always relying on Elphaba to take me to these certain places and Elphaba was just like, girl, does it even really matter? Just get on the broom. Right. We're going to figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. But she's more worried about the kind of like the logistics where Elphaba just kind of throws herself into things, but she kind of has to. Yeah. Which is another point that I want to make because There are people in my life who are like, wow, like you just really care about causes and you like really care about politics. And it's like, I don't have a choice to not. And I feel like that is how Elphaba is. Right. Elphaba did not have another choice. Right. She was already made out to be the bad guy. What else was she going to do? Right. She had no other choice than to do what she did. Yeah. And like she sings in the song, like she's not going to be caged and she's not going to live her story the way other people want her to live her story. Right. It got tiresome. Yeah. I think that that, yeah, I think that she represents for a lot of marginalized community, that feeling of I have to be passionate about this because I don't have the privilege. And that's why it had to be Cynthia. Yes. Full circle. Yeah. I mean, we touched a little bit on the vocals. Hmm. But the vocals for me. Yes. Yes. And that's all I'll say about that. Yeah. Many, every single choice was perfect. I'll just put it to you that way. Every choice that each of them made in their own right was perfect. I think a lot of people were saying, Oh, like Ariana's trying so hard To sound like Kristen? I don't think so. No. Glinda is Glinda needs to sound a certain way. Yes. On top of that, do you know what a soprano is? You uncultured swine. On top of that, the way that Ariana knew she had to pay respects to the original Glenda. on stage is very important. Do you not? Have you not seen her do impressions of every single huge vocalist on in our time and before then as well? There were parts of her where there are parts of popular where I was like, that's Kristen or it's a, it's an homage. Like she's paying respect to her. And there were parts where it was like, that was an Ariana twist. Yes. Yes. Which I loved. There has to be. Yeah. And that she talks about the fact that John really gave her the room to play. He's like, I liked that choice. I liked that risk. Do that. Do it differently next time. I don't care. Mm hmm. I think that she felt very free. Yeah. And very safe in that set. I think a lot of them did. Yeah, I think so too. Yeah. But yeah, the, the vocals are quite literally crazy and again, it goes back to, I think people really underestimated Ariana and it's like, we both have seen her live. Yes. So we know what she can do live. Not always do things transfer on a recorded song. To the live stage where she has more freedom. When you're releasing an album, you're kind of putting out the wrapped up version of it. The most fine tuned. Yes. Where you see her self producing and she's like, do that again, do that again, do that again. Where it's like, yes, you can have so many takes, but when you're just in the booth, I mean, it's a lot easier to just do something 20 times versus when you're in front of the camera and everyone has to reset and you have to do the take over and over again. It's much more difficult to get there. Yeah. So the, the rawness of it. Right. Was what just. Right. So we know that cause we've like, anyone who's seen her live, you know that she can do the riffs. She can do the whistle tones. She can do crazy things with her voice. So I knew she was going to kill it, but hearing it that way, it was just like. Mind blowing. When she gave me opera. Yes. I was like bitch. Shut the fuck up I just I just can't with her. Yeah, I mean as much as like Cynthia will always blow me out of the water. I think that Ariana's dedication to just being, yeah. Right. As soon as she found out then she was like, it was a transformation. Yeah. Right. We've seen her kind of like release certain past versions of herself and really step into this is me now type of situation. Right. Going off of what you said what did people expect her to do? If she was going to come out there with a thank you next version of Glinda, everybody would have hated on her more. Yes. It's just Ariana pretending to be, it's just Ariana, I didn't see Glinda. Right. She had to do what she did and she did it beautifully. And if she does not win both a Grammy and a fucking Oscar, I'm going to have some words to say. With the Academy. Both of them. With multiple academies. Yeah. So yeah, the vocals and I do cause I, we didn't really get into it in the, when we were talking about the casting, but Jonathan and dancing through life, that was like a perfect number in my opinion. Everything from like the dancing, the choreography, his personification and the way that he was interacting. I guess he really likes improv. And so they were talking about how there were times where he would lift Glinda or spin her. And like the facial expressions that were captured were Ariana's real in time expressions, cause she was never sure what he was going to do with her. Yeah. I think I caught one. I think I caught one. reaction of hers during that scene where I was like, Oh, that was, that was not Glinda. That was Ariana having a reaction. There was some, it was somewhere like toward the end, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And people are calling for him to be the next, like Matthew McConaughey, cast him in more like rom coms. Yeah, he is the rom com guy of this time. I love that. Maybe I will watch Bridgerton. I love him I think he's absolutely adorable. He doesn't sing in Bridgerton, but he's just so dapper. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we love a dapper man. Yes Yeah, so Jonathan, I mean who else had like I mean obviously Cynthia with the Gravity and with all of it, all of it. I mean, even like wizard and I wasn't ever really on the top of my list. I know it's an iconic song. I love it. Yeah. But you know, defying gravity just takes up so much space. It's just the big, it's just the number, you know what I mean? Everybody was wanting to know what she was going to do with it. Correct. There's battle cry and all that. There's so much conversation about, because the, the song can be picked apart and, and, you know, You know Defying Gravity. The lore of Defying Gravity. Yeah. But The Wizard and I is just ugh. I also wanted to say, she makes her voice sound youthful. I don't know if you caught this, but if you listen to the soundtrack, the youth that you can hear from the beginning compared to Defying Gravity at the very end is fucking nuts. And it was a choice. I was like, how do you, how does she make herself sound young? She did that on purpose because she wants the Elphaba before. Defying gravity to sound very innocent and very hopeful and optimistic for what's going to happen. And then everything changes, literally, when defying gravity happens. And that's why defying gravity has that grit. Yes. And it has the power and it has the strength and it has the diaphragm. Where Wizard of Wizard and I is up here, it's light and airy. It's very oh, I can't wait to see what happens. It's gonna be such a good time. She's dancing and frolicking and blah blah blah. Yeah. I heard it right away. I'm like, Her voice sounds young. Yeah. And how, I can't even ask how, I mean, it's just Cynthia. Growing up, those were my two favorite numbers. It was the wizard and I, and I'm not that girl. We're always my two favorite because The Wizard and I is like that if I just get in through the doors I'm supposed to get then my life's gonna change and I'm gonna get all of my dreams and just like that daydreamy like this is How it's gonna happen. Mm hmm. I always loved that one and then like I always felt like Alphaba in the like I'm not that girl. Oh, yeah, it's always being picked over the chosen That shows the one that wasn't chosen. Right. Right. You have the pretty friend and the popular friend. And I was also like an Elphaba in the way that I was kind of, I don't want to say an ugly duckling. Cause then that sounds like I'm being mean to my younger self. But I was a very much a late bloomer. We talk about this all the time. I was very, I was awkward. And there are still times where like I enter into new things and I feel very awkward and very fresh and I'm not really sure what I'm doing. And so I, I relate to that of Of course he's gonna choose that girl. she's the one. she's the Glinda type of girl. She's the it girl. She's got the locks. She's got the soft curls. She's got the face. She's got the confidence. Right. Right. So confidence radiates, right? Yeah. And if every, if everyone's constantly telling you how beautiful you are and, and you're this and you're that and you're very popular and yes, you're always going to feel like that. Many many many choices down. Yeah, and you're just like well, the song is just like well, obviously I'm not her that's how it feels to me. Yeah, it's like I'm obviously not her. Yeah, it's Definitely somebody else before me And the long it's just such a heartbreaking song for me. It's just uh, I know it's a love hate but yeah, those were always my two favorite numbers the wizard and I and I'm not that girl. I did want to talk about This idea of no good deed it goes unpunished which kind of shows up more in act two, but there's this big theme of good versus wicked. Obviously going throughout it. And she's told that from the beginning, if you make good, you'll meet the wizard. is obsessed with this image of being good and looking good. Oh, Glinda, you're just too good. You're just too nice. Yeah. You're just too wonderful, you know? That dichotomy of like we're always, a lot of times women are told like you have to be the good girl. Oh yeah. And how that has kind of shaped her and even though she really tried so hard to be good, she just, things were always fucking up you know, just be good. Just don't fly off the handle. Yeah. Just relax. Don't do anything that's going to make other people upset. Yeah, or uncomfortable. Yeah. Even if it's the right thing. Right. So, being good doesn't always Mean doing the right thing. And that's where Elphaba just struggled. Doing the most palatable thing. Uh huh Yeah, I really think that Elphaba is If not an empath at least a highly sensitive person. Oh for sure on the spectrum Yes, because just her connection with animals which can like obviously in the movie it's animals But like we can relate it to a marginalized group. Mm hmm that she goes out of her way to help. Correct It's the underdog. And feel for. It's the underdog. Right, and I really think that it The key point of the movie is your superpower can be bound when you learn to harness your emotions in the right way. Because before she would erupt, right? And then it was unpredictable and she didn't know what was gonna happen. Some shit was gonna get fucked up, but like she had no control over it. And once she learned how to control her emotions and her feelings, That's where the superpower really correct comes through. Yeah. She wasn't ever trying to get rid of it or diminish it, even though a lot of people tried to convince her that that was the answer. It was like, if you take control over all of these things that make you whole, then yes, that is the unlimited part of you. Yeah. It's like you're unstoppable at that point because you've taken control over something that used to control you. And so I think. Toward the end when Glinda does tell her that like just stop flying off the handle like just take a deep breath like think about what it is that you're doing and Elphaba doesn't have the time or the privilege to think about it. Her life is at risk. Yeah. Right. She needs to go. She needs to make the choice now and she already knows that the choice that she's not going to make She already knows what she's not gonna do. Mm hmm. And that is listen to the wizard It's listen to Madame Warble when she figures out that they're both really bad people and are the exact reason why the animals are being Basically, I don't know animal napped. Pushed out. Yeah, and having their voices taken away So, for me, that speaks to my personal takeaway, which is, it's timely. It came out in November where things happened in November. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that the biggest part toward the end for me was obviously knowing the wizard was going to do what he was going to do, even though I didn't want that to be true. Yeah. And he said that People need a person to dislike or hate as a means of this collective or foe. People need a common enemy. Yeah, a foe unison. We're not really united. We just all hate the same person. And so that gives us the idea that we're united. It gives us the idea that we're all on the same page. But realistically, it's like we've all just been been given an enemy to hate. So these like loudspeaker moments where it's like, there's an enemy in Oz and she's trying to do this and trying to do that all because she didn't give them what they wanted after of course they lied to her. So I think that speaks to the climate that we're in. And so as As long as it's going to feel, I think the second part is really going to tie a bow on that. And who knows what will be happening in our world and in our United States of America in one year. Yeah. Yeah. She represents this like righteous feminine rage that goes hand in hand with Pluto and Aquarius, this we will not stand for you pushing us around anymore. And we know we're the true. Power lies in here and in our strength together and in our differences. The thing that made her the most different is the thing that made her the most powerful out of everybody. And again, it goes to that. What we talk about a lot is like, if we could just understand that we're all on the same team and that we should be serving the same goal. And looking out for each other, because the powers that be will never actually do that. We could ignite so much change. And so I think that just what Elphaba represents, this, things are going to come to justice, and you can label me as evil, but everyone's gonna get their karma. Like with, with Boq, this fake niceness, this fake nobility Oh, I'm going to ask you to the dance because that's the right thing to do. Yeah. But in reality, he's in love with Glinda. Yeah. What the character doesn't know what Nessa doesn't know in the moment is that it's only because He wants to look good to Glinda. Yeah, he wants her to fall in love with him. Exactly. Which is obviously never gonna happen. To the point where you're playing with somebody else's feelings. Mm hmm. And then what's gonna happen to that motherfucker? He's gonna get his karma. What happens to him? You want me to say? Yeah. So in the next act, when Fiyero gets turned into the scarecrow and the lion cub gets turned into the cowardly lion, he gets turned into the tin man because he has no heart. He has no feelings. Hmm. I love that. It was just a rework, like he, he started backwards almost like he had these core characters and he was like, who was the tin man before he was the tin man? Yes. Yeah. They were people before. Yeah. Right. And it was supposed to be this like whole dream. Right. But the dream goes deeper. It's supposed to be Dorothy's I don't know. Yeah. Tornado dream. Yeah. So interesting. Yeah. I need to I would now it's just like he wrote so much more. Son of a witch and all that. Mm hmm. I'm really curious to know what happens in those Yeah, we should definitely do a book club full show Yeah, that's one thing that really stuck out to me Is that if you're doing things for the wrong reason eventually those things are gonna come to light and you have to answer for them Right the person that you hurt is gonna get their lick back because and he will and I cannot wait Is that what you held your tongue when we were talking about Ethan? You Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't know why I forget so much of what happened in the second part. Yeah. Because eventually Nessa finds out. Yeah. Of course. Well, toward the end of the movie itself, they're getting on the train and yeah, a part of me forgot that she asked Glinda to come with her as well. And I know it was necessary because of course we had all the moments that needed to happen. And I hope you're happy where they're just kind of like, girl, I can't go with you, but I can't stay with you. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of things that I, that I definitely forgot. Yeah. So many things I need to revisit. I know. It's interesting. I want to watch, now that we have HBO, I want to watch The Wizard of Oz because I was going to before we went and saw the movie, but it was like 6. 99 and I'm like, do I really want to pay 7 for a movie I've seen a thousand times? But yeah, I think that's really interesting that they all get cursed But in reality, it's like either a protection for Fiyero. Mm hmm or a punishment for Fucking around with her sister right around and found out. Yeah, so it's like this battle between who's really wicked Yeah, I mean who's really good and who's really not that's why the interview that I love the most On this press tour was when Cynthia got told that a little girl knew that Elphaba was the good witch. Yeah. And that's why it made Cynthia tear up so much because it's, these women have related to these characters and become them so much or were already characters. You know, them. Yeah. Yeah. I think that Cynthia has been an alpha buffer a long time. I am really happy that she gets to represent that for not only the black community, not only the queer community, but just anyone who's ever felt othered. And I really loved the foreshadowing. So this is not a spoiler because it's literally the first scene. It starts with Elphaba dying and everybody celebrating and what you don't realize until maybe. Later on is that when Glinda is talking about the wicked die alone and nobody lays a tulip on their tomb and things like that, she's talking about herself because in not standing up for what was right, she lost two of the people that she cared about most. So it's like she experienced the biggest loss to gain power. She's experiencing this insane grief because everybody's celebrating that her friend died. Mm hmm. You know, that her friend's been killed. And she can never say that to anyone. Right, and she's having to grapple with the fact that I not only lost my mans, but I lost my best friend. Correct. The paths did cross is a crazy line. Right. Our paths did cross is a crazy line. Because she's having to hide behind this idea that's Oh yeah I mean, I, I knew her like a little bit, like we went to the same school and shit, but We didn't fuck with each other right when in fact they absolutely did. Yeah heavy. Yeah, because she had to she was then made the poster child when she chose to blend of the good witch to hug Madame Morrible back and be on her side Madame Morrible knew exactly the emotional reaction that that's gonna elicit from Elphaba You know what you do to somebody who you want to pin as evil You take their greatest ally and you make them good. Mm hmm. You make them the icon to look up to. Correct. Because that's going to hurt the other person the most. It has to be a versus. It has to be a versus. Yeah, it has to be good versus evil. Look what happens when you do evil and look what happens when you do good. Right. She, she already had a poster child for evil. Right. Elphaba chose righteousness, even though they made it look like the opposite. Right. And then Glenda was just there, basically, because she didn't choose to go with Elphaba. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, a lack of choice and just being a little bit, you know, Apathetic to the well, it doesn't affect me. So You know, that's kind of what it's hard for me. Like I know That Glinda is such a complex character, but sometimes it's hard for me to not get upset at that. Right. Yeah, but It's like because Elphaba was really ready to like It's just the thing that we talk about a lot. It's like being the friend that always gives the 110, only for the other friend to like barely meet you at 90, less than half the time. And then when they do, it's for Their own benefit is to benefit them or it's for them to look a certain way when she started to notice how Fiero was being weird. Yeah. That's when she changed her name to Glinda. Right. Weird, but really it was him kind of like coming to, Oh my gosh, it's so, it's so terrible what they're doing. All of a sudden. Yeah. All of a sudden it's terrible. Yeah. We're like, girl, that already that happened. It wasn't terrible when it was happening. It's like, why is it terrible now? Because it's in your best interest to appear certain way so that your mans don't leave you. Yeah, he was already emotionally checked out. Exactly, the poppy in the pocket, please. That was the, that was the, okay, we're coming for a circle. Full circle, ladies and gentlemen. Elphaba, as we say a lot. Yeah. Is everyone's mirror. And that's why she makes people so uncomfortable. She showed Furo exactly who she is. She showed Glinda exactly who she is. She showed Madame Morrible and the wizard what they don't have. And eventually she's going to show Boq. Yeah. And her dad and her sister everybody she's a mirror right makes everybody so uncomfortable That's why her dad can't stand to be around her. Yeah, he doesn't know the reason really why she turned green It's because of the green elixir. Mm hmm when her mom was fucking around with the wizard. Yeah before he was the wizard, you know Yeah, but these like little choices of like I need to control things. So he gave Alphaba's mom, all of the milk flour. Yeah. Thinking well, this isn't going to make sure that she's not green. Like this fucking weirdo over here. And then it's giving skin bleaching. Right. And then it turns out that she's still like that NASA, had her disability, you know, it's like, we have to just stop controlling things and panicking when something makes us uncomfortable and just look in the mirror and look at the uncomfortable thing. More often than not, it's trying to teach us something about ourselves. And so if we don't ever do that, then we're just going to keep facing mirrors our whole life, girl. Yeah. We're going to keep getting scented. Yeah. Because we never look. If you never look, then yeah, it's just going to follow you around like a little fucking shadow. So yeah that pretty much wraps up our episode on Wicked. We hope that you enjoyed it. This is a full spoiler episode. So hopefully if you've listened to this you already are aware about the story of Wicked or have already seen it. Let us know your thoughts on the movie. We did also want to talk about these pins that we have. If you're watching, you can see them, but there's a Elphaba pin and a Glinda pin and a heart, and they go along with the cause. So Danie kept the little card. Yeah. First of all, it's so cute. And we got them at the actual theater. I don't know if they're doing it in different theaters. Right. So the purchase of the pins support variety, which is the children's charity that empowers kids who live with special needs or who are disadvantaged by providing vital equipment services and experiences that help them thrive. So we will link this. It's a QR on here. But once I find the link, I will Link it in the show notes so you can get your cute little pin or drop in a donation Which we love that they did I don't know if it's something that they sent out Just based on the release of the the film itself or if different theaters are doing different things Which yeah, we've gathered that many theaters are doing Theater that we saw this in wasn't a chain So I'm under the impression that they probably sent these to multiple theaters. I'm hoping so You know, you have to look, we'll look, but we're going to link everything for you guys below. You can go grab a pin. They were only three dollars each, which is really awesome. So. Of course we had to have both because you can't just have one or the other. Yeah. I, I got a Glinda and an Elphaba and so I gave her the Glinda obviously because she's Wearing the pink and she was like, Oh, I need my Elphaba and so They she made them open back up the registers again before we left and got another set and we also got really cute. We got so much that was ridiculous Okay, so we got a blanket and she had the blanket in the theater. We also got the little like plasticky cups that kind of like resemble a bubble in a way where we got our drinks in Yeah which the drinks were cool I wish they would have been a little different but bankers can't be choosers. And so yeah overall It was just such a fun time. It was obviously me and her and then we went with My mom who of course really enjoyed it. And that was of course we saw the play together So yeah, lots of full circle stuff and lots of really good Memories, even though they were like decades apart, which is cool. Yeah. It's going to be the movie. That's going to be talked about for a long time, because they already have submitted Cynthia and Ariana for Oscars. And all of the award season and I'm guessing that they'll probably I mean if the soundtrack does well They'll probably also get nominations in the Grammys. It's honestly perfect for score So there's one thing that we didn't spoil which is what are we the secret? Oh, let's not know what everybody to enjoy Yeah, there is a secret. There is a very very fun Glee filled she yeah, she literally exclaimed out. Oh, shut the fuck up in the middle of the theater I did I did like it was an audible like I said that shit out loud and I meant to say it out loud. Yeah, I was like there's surprise. Oh my God. The fact that they were able to keep it a surprise for so long is so good. So I don't want to ruin it for you. Okay. Oh, just know that there is going to be a few. Little surprises along the way. And we love that. We do love that. And thanks for joining us. Of course. See you next time on our alphaba couch. It is an alphaba couch. If that doesn't say it all, folks, I don't know what else does. And, To close us out on this magical journey, let us pray. Spirit, give me the serenity to defy others expectations of me. The courage to be changed for good. And the wisdom to not give a cowardly munchkin their lick back when they try the people we love. And so it is.