Celebrating The Power of Female Platonic Connection with Friendship Coach Danielle Bayard Jackson

Happy Love Week, Feelers!

This has been a long anticipated episode on our end BECAUSE we have the lovely, eloquent, well-versed, and female friendship hypewoman Danielle Bayard Jackson on the podcast! 

Danielle Bayard Jackson is a women’s relational health educator who speaks nationally about the science of women’s platonic connections. She is the director of the Women’s Relational Health Institute and is also the author of Fighting for Our Friendships : The Science and Art of Conflict and Connection in Women’s Relationships.

Danielle shares her insight weekly on The Friend Forward Podcast, has several viral videos on social media, and has written for Insider and Harvard Business Review.

You can learn more about Danielle and her work by visiting www.betterfemalefriendships.com.

In this celebratory Galentine's episode, we dive into:

💞 Building relational resilience

💞 Why conflict in friendship doesn't = a bad friend or friendship

💞 Friendship goals + platonic intimacy

💞 How to ADORE your gal pals!

💞 How having fulfilling friendships directly ties to your happiness and physical health

00:00 Intro + Welcome to the special Galentine's Friendship episode!

01:42 What's In Your Cup!?

07:29 Introducing Danielle Bayard Jackson

11:22 What's in Danielle's Cup?

14:05 Female friendships - it's not just girl drama!

16:47 Friendship dissolution

17:58 Addressing and healing the friendship wound

23:10 Healing in community

28:55 Nurturing friendships using the ADORE method

32:38 Big girlfriend groups - how many people REALLY have them and are they realistic?

39:17 Why intention matters in friendships

43:51 Adopting the mindset of being a connector

47:23 Friendship for BIPOC women

56:11 How Danielle is honoring herself this Black History Month

59:33 Empaths closing thoughts and reflections

Please let us know what you think in the comments! Leave a 💜 if you made it to the end of the episode. 

Transcript

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 0:00

I just feel like I'm a part of this movement of women who, who are like me. And that is affirming to me as a person. It increases my confidence. It makes me have higher self esteem to be able to look around and be like, yes, look at us. You know, uh, it makes me feel like I'm a part of a community and I think community care is self care.

Speaker: 0:19

Welcome to empaths anonymous

Speaker 2: 0:21

a space for dreamers healers and feelers Navigating the fine line between putting yourself first and holding space for others

Speaker: 0:30

If you struggle with balancing your needs while still supporting your tribe, then you're in the right place

Speaker 2: 0:35

Welcome to the support group

ea_2_01-06-2025_111805: 0:40

Hello, lovers and friends. Welcome back to the Empaths Anonymous podcast. I'm Crystina. I'm Danie. And today, I am so, so excited, you guys. You have no idea. I'm kind of a fangirl of our guest that's coming on. I've been following her for a really long time, and one of my favorite topics is friendship. It's just the creme de la creme of life and so when I found her podcast and Instagram, I was like, Oh my God, there's somebody talking about female friendships and not even just somebody like a black woman talking about female friendships and not just a cishet white man. Mm hmm. Giving. Like, research about friendships, so very, very, very excited to get into our combo with her. But first, what's in your cup, girlfriend? Today, you can tell we're dressed up for our Galentines. Happy Galentines week to our gals and our pals, but only if you're a true pal. In my cup today is Instead of a reheated coffee, I just went ahead and put that shit on ice. And that's what it is. Coffee from home. It's, a little bit of Lavazza from the pot and an extra couple of ounces of Philz coffee. So I've got a blend happening in here today. I love that. Yeah, also, please forgive my congested voice. There's nothing I could do about it. I'm sorry. In my cup of life because I'm not feeling 100, I suppose that's just how I'm showing up. I'm here. I'm excited. But the brain fog is definitely takes over at some point. So if I look like I'm dissociating, it's probably because I am. But overall good. I love that it's Galentine's. I, even when I was in a relationship, like I really. Like Valentine's was just okay. I love doing the gal pal stuff. Like that was so fun. I love doing the crafts. I love getting together. I love having a pajama party, like get the girlies together to celebrate some love. So that's kind of how I'm feeling. And today I'm feeling like flirty and fun. Absolutely. What's in your cup, sister? So I have in my Glinda cup, speaking of gal pals, speaking of friends, how do I say, what word am I looking for? Long awaited? Yeah, the long awaited. Yeah. Because it's part of a bigger story this time. Oh, yeah. It, I don't remember what episode that was. Me either. Uh, it was definitely a 2024 episode, but if you guys know, it was, oh, duh, it was our Wicked episode. My mom, Crystal, Crystal's corny, Crystal's corny, absolutely. She traversed, uh, East Troy, Wisconsin in her slippers, abandoned her crochet project to go get me the last. So, and it's a whole story time. You guys can go listen to it in the Wicked episode, but inside of it, I have the Chamberlain cold brew, the coconut one, and a shot of Phil's Tesora with cold foam that I created at home. Yeah, you need to go into the cold foam because I saw you, I saw you put the mix ins. Oh, it's, it's a lot. Okay, so. The cold foam has. Actually, you should try one of my little brain Cymbiotikas because it actually will probably help with the brain fog. It helps me. It should. It's just sinus. Like, I'm so clogged. Yeah. Okay, so it is Califia Organic because we're not about seed oils in this house. Never. Almond milk. Mixed with the Laird vanilla. Creamer that has functional mushrooms in it and the big size and the big size and then I put in a Cymbiotika, I think it's called golden brain. Mm hmm. I put that in there also has a bunch of mushrooms in it And I think it also has Like gaba and zinc or something like that. Honestly, this is probably concerning or should be concerning. I feel like my brain does not turn on until I have that in the morning. And I usually put it in my, in my coffee. It doesn't you can take it just straight up, but I like to mix it in my coffee. It's a chai flavor, like a cinnamon chai. And then I add cinnamon to the mixture and I put it in the frother on cold and put it on top of my cold brew. That's what I'm drinking today. And that's Crystina's elixir of the day. And that's my elixir. Yes. And how I'm showing up. I, well, again, also excited to be here, excited about friendships. And as I was getting prepared today, I'm just so grateful for the friends that I do have. Namely you and I am putting it as a priority for the rest of the year to attract more friendships as always. I feel like that was a priority for me in the last year too. But yeah, being out and about and I am. We talked about this in the episode a little bit. I am proud of myself for recognizing some patterns and seeing that, you know, a couple years ago I might have reacted this way, but now I'm getting a hold of it. I think that I am getting better at managing my OCD, which is great because I'm doing it without any Help from a therapist. Mm hmm. So I'm really happy about that. While it sucks and it feels like sometimes my brain is a fucking war zone I'm getting better at managing it. So that's how I'm showing up today. Grateful, proud, ready to talk about friend love. Yeah, it's feeling, I do have that same feeling of readiness. Yeah. Yeah, let's go. I, I, I feel like a frat bro. Let's go, bro. That's how I feel. We're here for our friendships, bro. Bro. I love you, bro. Yes. Yeah. It's giving really chaotic energy. Kind of, but Hey, I'm here for it. The best way. Yeah. Happy Black History Month, of course. Absolutely. We're celebrating all month long. It just happens to coincide with our Valentine's week episode. So we wanted to do something fun and cutesy. Yeah. And what better way to celebrate Galentine's than talking about your gals. So without further ado, we will not yap any further. Here's our guest.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 7:29

Hi, welcome back to the Empath Anonymous podcast. This is our special Galentine's edition of the podcast today. And we're so, so happy to have Danielle Bayard Jackson on the podcast today. She is a woman's relational health educator who speaks nationally about the science of women's platonic connections. She is the director of the Women's Relational Health Institute, and is also the author of Fighting for Our Friendships, the Science and Art of Conflict and Connection in Women's Relationships. Danielle shares her insight weekly on the Friend Forward podcast and has several viral videos on social media and has written for Insider and Harvard Business Review. Welcome to the podcast, Danielle.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 8:10

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here and to, and to talk about this because it's so important.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 8:15

Yeah. Of course. Yeah. We both really value. friendship and female friendships. And we think that it's something that, you know, not necessarily is misunderstood, but kind of gets a bad rap sometimes. And as you speak about in your book, isn't always prioritized in the same way for other women.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 8:34

Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's great to have you all commit to facilitating a moment for us to talk about this because, um, because I do see a trend of women moving toward prioritizing this in their lives in a way that feels very new to me. So I'm excited about that.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 8:48

yeah, do you find that there's a reason for that? Like, is it the pandemic or any other factors?

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 8:54

Okay, so I, I think it's a lot of things. One is, one, I think it's being modeled for them. So to see other women talking about how important their friendships are kind of makes you think to yourself, Oh, I, I guess they are important. I've never really intentionally thought about that before. You also see trends like more and more people are being interested in like, uh, What do they call it? Like these, these house shares, like buying houses with friends or living with other people. I think that's on an uptick. I think you have more and more women opting out of marriage, opting out of having kids. And I mean, the next natural step is to think through what role does friendship play to the single woman? That is your family, you know, and so I think these shifts in certain trends, how women thinking more intentionally around what their friendships mean to them and what role they wanted to play in their lives overall.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 9:45

Yeah, yeah, we definitely like have our own, like we live in California, so it's a little bit harder to think of buying a house and things like that, but we have a plan of, okay, if in, you know, five to 10 years, we're still both single and we want to think of the long term because that's just. Smart, right? We're in our 30s. We're like, what are we gonna do long term? We're like, let's get a Yeah, is it called? It's a compound compound

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 10:11

Yes, I love it.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 10:13

I need the chickens. I need them. I like I need everything baby So I want to like I need a mini horse. I need a mini cow. I need all the baby things And she could have her own place. I can have my own place. We're still on this shared plot of land where it's like, it's still a shared space. We have shared responsibilities and we both bring things to each other's lives. In a very like practical and loving way. And I just stay. Understand why more people are not, I know it's more of like a capability, like we're just not able to do it at this point in time. But yeah, as we get closer to that age, I'm almost like, I'm looking forward to it. I'm like, nobody find me, man. I don't want, I don't want one. See

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 10:54

Yeah, I, I get it. And this is what I mean. So even you saying that if there's a person listening, who was like, Oh, I never even considered that. I think it just kind of starts with that seed and then it takes off from there.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 11:05

Yeah. Definitely. I got a little ahead of myself because I am just so excited to talk about this. But we always ask our guests, because we have a segment called What's in Your Cup? So we always ask our guests, are you sipping on anything this morning? And how are you showing up today? So what's in your, in your cup, your personal cup?

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 11:22

So, so physically in the cup is cold coffee and I do the thing of like the four, five reheats, which I don't know if that affects the quality, but at this point, um, and, and then I think just slowing down is, is in my cup more like metaphorically of, of, You know, I think as millennials, a lot of us were raised at the, in the golden era of hustle culture. And I've definitely been guilty of doing the thing where I'm showing on my Instagram stories, like how busy my day is, or like a quick screenshot of like, look at how much I'm doing today. And it's almost like a status thing in the past three years, I've been working really hard to, to. Unlearn that. And so now I see the value of, uh, moving slowly, intentionally being present, doing things that make sense for you instead of things that feel cool. So I'm rethinking all that. And so because of that, uh, moving at a slower pace is what's in my cup, uh, on a day to day basis.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 12:17

Yeah, taking care of our internal selves and our nervous system.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 12:22

Totally. Mm-hmm

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 12:24

Yeah, because you've been busy with the book and like, I see you on all different types of podcasts. I know you were on Les podcast. That's one of my favorite, Ballad's Black Girl. So you've been doing a lot of promo and stuff like that. So it makes sense to prioritize slowing down in your personal life.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 12:39

Yeah. Yeah. And she, she's great. Her show is so terrific. Yeah, and you know what I'm learning about hustling and the grind and stuff too, is it can come in seasons. And so 2024, that was the season. And the season feels like it's gonna be one for just like. Slowness and being present with my kids, my friends, and, and more outings that have nothing to do with my professional advancement. So, you know, sure. Things that are exciting to me like this, having this conversation was an immediate. Yes. You know? So things like that, that feel energizing or make me curious is going to be a yes, but anything where I find myself thinking like, Oh, this will look cool to do. Or I might get closer to people at the top, like stuff like that. I just, I don't know. For me, as a woman of faith, I feel like I trust that God is gonna find a way to make it happen. I don't have to chase down every little thing. Sometimes it's a no. And I also trust that that won't be the last of the opportunities to come my way. And so far that attitude has been, has been serving me well.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 13:35

Right. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Even for us to take our little two week hiatus, which was so nice. We both got to just kind of completely take a break, stay off of social media and really still always are thinking about it because it's our baby and we love it very much. But just to not be so active within that headspace was really nice and just to breathe for like a very quick second. And then we were a lot more re energized and ready to come back. Yeah. Inspired. Hit the ground running starting this month. So, Yeah, I was trying to explain, I don't know why I did this, I was trying to explain your book to a man. And he's like, well, I just don't really understand, like, I don't really understand why it's just so much girl drama. And I'm like, hmm. It's not that, and I, and I kind of detest that. I don't really like when female friendships are deduced to just girl drama. I'm like, well, you wouldn't understand the complications because you don't have a strong and deep and emotional connection to your male friends the way that women have. Like, it's a very special thing to have. And so I just kind of, I tried my best, but it's like, he's like, Oh, it just kind of sounds like girl drama. And I'm like, well, no, that's not what it is. And so I really like that the way that the book breaks things down. I like that how the chapters are organized. And I like that we really talk about the truth is that it is very complicated and things do happen where we don't ever set out to start a friendship. Thinking that it's going to end and sometimes it does and we have to take inventory and so when you were talking about maybe some of the friendships that you had lost along the way, I was wondering why I was, I was listening and reading along because I'm just that type of person. I was wondering to myself, how did you kind of. Well, first of all, did you have guilt, and then how did you kind of process through that in losing a friend?

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 15:38

Yeah, you know, I've, I mean, I've definitely made friends, lost friends along the way. And you know, the, the book itself fighting for our friendships, the goal was to help women develop more relational resilience. So you and I, when we have a thing, how do I come back for that, uh, from that? And, you know, my specialty is studying the research and women's cooperation, communication and conflict. And I, I know that there are. It's a lot of evolving discussion around gender and language and things like that. And I appreciate that. But the research continues to show that women cooperate and expect and communicate differently than men do when they're in male dominated groups. And so, you know, 70 percent of a woman's network is other women. To me, that means it's worth it to take some time to figure out, okay, well, How do, what do we constitute as a violation that a man might not? How do we become close in ways that men, men don't prioritize? What are the things that that split us apart so I can go into friendships kind of anticipating that, being equipped to navigate that and having a deeper understanding of the mechanics of women's friendships. And you can't really have that conversation without talking about friendship dissolution. And this is because the research finds that while women's friendships are. deeper and more intimate, they do dissolve at a higher rate. Now, a lot of people like that man in your life might say, well, yeah, because they're petty. It's easy to jump to because we just have a lack of tolerance because we are just so obsessed with the drama. But it's because, you know, you're probably not falling out with the person you weren't close with to begin with. So you having that best friend who's been your boy, you know, for 20 years, Yeah. And the last time you talked to him was last summer. So you probably are not going to have a big fallout because it's not that deep. I'm not saying men can't go deep. I'm not speaking to their capacity. I'm just saying generally the tendency is for some of those friendships to be more surface level and compared to women. To your question about guilt, I've totally felt guilt over ending friendships. You know, one was last October and was really hard. Having friends pull away from me in my past. But I think learning things like kind of what I talk about help us to metabolize that rejection.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 17:57

Yeah. I think that we, a lot of us have this, like a friendship wound, and it can show up in different ways for different people, right? Like I, mine is I don't want to have conflict. I used to tell people, well, I don't fight with my friends, so if you have, like, issues, or like, if we're fighting, then we just aren't meant to be friends. And it's just so not true. The older that I got, and the more that I sort of Treating friendships as real relationships as you would with a boyfriend or your family members, you're going to have conflict, you're not going to see eye to eye because you're different people. I think that we have this sometimes, especially when I was younger, this idea that your friends have to You know, have the same ideals, beliefs and like personality as you. Otherwise you're not getting along. But yeah, can we talk more a little bit about the friend wound and what it might look like to heal that wound so that we aren't bringing that insecurity into other friendships? Yeah,

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 18:54

you know, I know it's popular for people to say, and I'm sure I've said it before too. Uh, you know, I'm in my healing era. And for many people that looks like. I'm kind of in isolation right now, reading books, doing, I don't know, shadow side journals or whatever it is. And that's cool and necessary a lot of times to get away from noise, distraction, from hearing other people's voices around what you ought to do. So for sure, but I'm always gonna Kind of poke us a little bit to think about how healing happens in community. A lot of times the wounds that you do have, you know, it doesn't get better by just like thinking about it and reading books about it. It's, it's the next time I'm triggered in that same way. Do I respond differently? That is it being healed inside of me. So me being scared to tell a woman my business. Because women have betrayed me. They've, they've told, you know, they've shared very personal things and I told them not to. So it's very tempting to say, you know what? I'm not sharing anything anymore. I am so done with that. And you can't trust people. It's also, sometimes important for me to position myself for what therapists refer to as a corrective experience, meaning the circumstances look the same. It's happening again. I have an opportunity to share, Maybe I'm a little wiser now, a little more discerning, and so now I share a little something again, something little, not something somebody could completely destroy me with, something little, and I position myself to show my brain, uh, that we can do this, and to update the messages that I've downloaded, it's time to update them, but I have to show myself I can, so maybe I share with this new girl a little something, and she says something like, wow, thank you for telling me that. Or, wow, you know, that, that stays between you and I, you don't have to worry about me sharing that or I see that she had an opportunity to tell somebody and she didn't and my brain says, okay, well, maybe, maybe you can tell some people, maybe some people, but I have to give myself a chance for that to happen and often that happens in partnership with another person instead of just The, the glorified I'm in my solo healing era.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 21:08

I totally agree. I feel like right now, which I think that there's a time and a place and a need for it, but I think we're being bombarded by this messaging of, you know, everyone's a narcissist. Cut those people off. If they don't bring you peace, they're not meant to be in your life. Like whatever, you know, that kind of thing. I see a lot of it on my Instagram feed and my tick tock feed. And I get, there are some people in your life that. are toxic that are weighing on you that aren't meant to like keep going forward in your journey that we do have to say goodbye to. But I think that we forget that before we get to that step, there's also this conflict resolution. And a lot of times it can be just our own perception that's keeping us from understanding the other person.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 21:50

Oh, a hundred percent and, and you know, it doesn't help when you, you, we, me are on social media and I always encourage people to take a look at the friendship content that you find yourself engaging with, like liking, watching all the way through reading the comments on cause I'm training in the algorithm, feed me more stuff like that. And so the, the, the videos where women are like, so story time. About why you can't trust women or here are signs to cut a friend off. Is it helpful to kind of know some signs that this is going poorly? Sure. But we've tried to commit, you know, with my brain and business on attuning your eyes toward the green flags. Because if I ask you, tell me some red flags and green flags, I bet you can whip those red flags so quickly and it might be more of a struggle. To think through the positives. So we need to train our brain. What are the positive things I'm looking for? You know, what are the signs that she, my new friend is trustworthy. She says she's going to do things and she does. She does. She's not telling me her other friends business. That's a good thing. Right? And so, you know, a lot of it looks like, what am I constantly consuming and how does that feed? insecurities and, and, and inadequacies and fears I already have, well it sure ain't helping. So, you know, it's, it's helpful sometimes to, to be intentional about that as well.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 23:07

Yeah, totally. Yeah, I feel like there's this oftentimes a misconception or misunderstanding about what healing is and what that looks like and how it looks so different for everybody. And I am certainly guilty of this. Where I thought it was isolation, leave me alone, I have to heal and then I can come back out into the world and function as a healed person. I very quickly learned that's not how it was gonna work for me. I know some people do very well in isolation and I like spending time by myself, but it wasn't only that. And so I did wanna speak to a little bit. about how, speaking to healing the friendship wound when we do have those close friendships in our lives, like, how can that healing look? Kind of what you spoke to a little bit, how do you know when we're healing alongside someone, right? Like for myself and Crystina, it was kind of a whirlwind of us being able to live together. This is the first time in our 13 year friendship that we've been this close and it like went from not close at all to like extremely close. So navigating that and then us finally coming to the realization that, oh, I think we're kind of in this like same era or same position in life. And we could look at it as like a woe is me situation, or we could take advantage of the opportunity and understand what it's like to heal in tandem. So how do we know when that's happening for, for two friends?

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 24:42

That's a great question. I think one is kind of what you described of, do I feel like I, I am growing here? And you feel like you are growing here too and perhaps we're bringing our respective uh, negative experiences or complexes and we have our own things going on. This friendship with you is turning me into a version of myself that I really like. I feel proud of. I feel Myself maturing in certain areas and this friendship is helping me grow in that way. And I don't often hear people talk about growth in partnership. Maybe it's like, I need to grow on my own, but how has a friendship grown you up? How is a friendship that you have turned you into a version of yourself that you really like? You feel proud of who you are with her. You like what she brings out in you. I think that could be one way of measuring your progress. And I think another is to look at certain situations that you're in, where you respond in a way that's different from how you would have. Maybe three years ago. So sometimes looking at like, Oh my gosh, three years ago, I would have I would have a spiraled, right? She didn't talk to me for like three days. That's not normal. I would have spiraled into, I guess she hates me. Maybe I said something that offended her, but today I was able to muster the courage to ask her outright. Hey, are we good? Because I know we kind of talk every day. I haven't heard your voice. We're okay. Right. And three years ago, I wouldn't have done that. And so finding ways to say, oh my gosh, I think, I think I'm growing, you know, so sometimes comparing to how old you would have responded and how you are responding now, I think that could also be a measure of your progress and growth.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 26:20

yeah, yeah, especially because we're so isolated now. I think that the pandemic escalated that, but I've noticed that like a millennial is we kind of in our cocoons and I think we were all, you know, going through a lot of stuff. We have our careers. Some of us are starting families, there's different things going on that might attribute to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But just being around her. I mean, we've been friends for 13 years, but I lived in a different state. So for most of the time we were long distance friends. And so it was normal to not talk for a few weeks and then, you know, check in with each other. And now it's just hearing some of the situations and things that we've been through. She, she went through something. And then through, you know, having all of this time to really like talk through it and we're each other sounding board. So we're like, okay, I'm not crazy, right? Like this is going on. Like I'm going to, you know, give you all the details, like help me be my second brain so I can make sure that I'm getting this correct through doing that. There's been situations where I've noticed. You know, the signs or like things in relationships I've been in, and I'm like, Oh, she went through that already. And even though these are different people, maybe slightly different situations, I kind of know what to look out for now. So I think one of the beautiful things about female friendship is that we share this. Communication, you know, we love to just get together and just talk with our girlfriends. And I think that in itself is like a great way to learn. And while not every situation will be the same, I think I've just had so much value and learned so much just from like hearing and seeing her resilience of what she's been through.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 27:52

Oh, that's, that's really beautiful. And I love hearing the way that you're describing how integrated you are in each other's lives, you know, roommates or not, but that this is a person I, uh, who helps me make daily decisions. This is a person who helps to regulate me when, when I'm off and I need somebody to bring me back down to earth, how integrated you are into one another's lives. And sometimes that level of closeness, Comes with an increased risk, right? Cause the closer we are and the more we're in each other's business, you know, my buttons, right? But, but the opposite is true. If we're not doing that, then there's a lesser degree of closeness and you're not in my life. I'm, we become catch up friends. I'm just self reporting to you once a month, what's going on. And so I think it's beautiful to hear stories like the one you just shared about how deeply you guys are woven into each other's lives and how much of an asset that is for you.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 28:41

Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think that it's rare. And I think that we try to protect that. So going into that, I know that. I'm really grateful for her friendship. And I know that not everybody may be experiencing that right now. What are some ways that we can really try to nurture those friendships and build stronger friendships for people who, or for those of us who are looking for more of that connection?

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 29:06

Okay. So yeah, the question is like how to nurture existing friendships a little more. Okay. Yeah, I love that question because you know, the, the most popular question I receive is, you know, how do I make friends? And, and, and there are so many things that are happening that are putting people in a position where they are inviting new connections into their lives. But there's another group who's like, actually, I have no problem with like making friends. I'm sociable. I like people I'm extroverted, charismatic. Yeah. My current friendships don't feel totally satisfying, but I don't know what to do aside from like, I don't know, hang out more or be nice to you, check in more. And so we came up with five research based ways to help you deepen existing connections and they're all research based and I call them the adore practices and practice meaning This is ongoing. It's not I do this one time. Now we're close. And so a door in each letter, you know, stands for something as an acronym, but very quickly, the A stands for appreciation. It sounds very obvious. Uh, but a lot of times, you know, the research finds that we say, thank you, less often, the closer we are to people. Cause we just expect it. I don't have to be nice here, but if I asked your friend, like, do you feel appreciated? What would she say? Or do you just expect her to say yes. So what are the ways that I can make it known how much I have? I place value on you being in my life. That's verbally, like, how am I assuring you? So that's one. The D stands for desire. Oftentimes when we think of desire, sometimes it's in a sexual context, but it's important to express platonic desire. I know because women often tell me how they wish their friends reach out to them, how they wish their friends If she did a hangout, how they wish their friends reached forward toward them. So they weren't the pusher. And so how can I communicate to my friends? I desire you, meaning I want to know you more. I want more of your time. I want to know what you were like as a kid. I want your company. How have I communicated that? the O stands for openness, which is vulnerability, the R for reliability. So how are we establishing trust constantly? And finally, the E stands for experiences, because the research continues to show that time is a key ingredient in the friend deepening process and you can't get around it. Uh, in fact, one study from 2021 found that it takes about 34 hours to move someone from an acquaintance to a friend. So it's just time together and by exercising a mix of those practices, like making sure that's what you do, uh, before you know it, you would have deepened that connection.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 31:38

I like that. I love a timeline. Like give me an amount of hours to do something. I'm like all set. Absolutely. Yeah. I I've never been the type of person to, and we talk about this a lot, to have a very large friend group. I think the closest I got to like a super large friend group was once when I was 12. And then again, When I was like in my early twenties but that became more of like a coworking situation where it was like, I was spending so much time with these people that didn't really have a choice. Cause they were the only people that I ever saw in my life. Cause it's like, I was working, you know, 40 plus hours a week. Of course, I'm going to get close to these people. I don't have an option. And more often than not, it was like, those are the, that's the fun group. We're going out. We're having fun together, but I was noticing that I wasn't having these like deep emotional connections to these people that I was used to, you know, in my other friendships or in my more lasting friendships. So I suppose my question is, when you do find yourself in a large friend group, is it possible to kind of create those friendships? Because like you're saying, it takes so much time. And time spent with those people and not just I'm having fun and we're going out for drinks and we're dancing. Like that's not necessarily quality time. It's a fun time, but I'm not learning you at all. I know your drink order and I know the music that you like, but I don't really know you. So how do those, do those big friend groups tend to always dissipate? Do they always die out or do we kind of pick and choose from those like larger groups who we're going to establish a stronger connection with?

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 33:21

Oh, that's a great question because I know that that is a desire for many women. I just want a group of girls, you know, you know, first, let me say, I know that there are friend groups out here that are writing strong. I know that's a thing. I think it's beautiful to, to have this group of women who are your people and they, they serve as some kind of constant in your life is great to the woman who is trying to reconcile her desire for a friend group. With her desire for deep relationships. And she's trying to reconcile those two things. I want to offer some, some insights for her to figure that out. The first thing I want to say is there is research that finds that when people gather, most of them are gathering one on one. So right there, if you think everybody's got a friend group, except for me, it's actually not true. 50 percent of our gatherings are one to one. I think it's like, I want to say like 30 percent not even 30 percent I think like 20 something percent is in a trio. Then like 9 percent is in four. So the more you get, the less it's actually happening. Don't let social media fool you. It's, it's, it's not happening. Uh, another thing is as you age, it becomes more difficult because you are working with multiple schedules, people's competing obligations. So one's got to work. One's got kids. One lives over here. So the practicality of trying to get everybody together to hang out, we've got more barriers to getting it done just logistically. Okay. And then finally I'll say that the research also finds that women tend to be more dyadic than men. D Y a D I C, meaning we tend to splinter off into one to one groups, one on one, one on one, whereas men kind of gather. But when you have a larger group gathering, it affords you a certain level of anonymity. I don't have to totally show up and be seen here because there's a squad of seven of us. I can't hide when it's just me and you though. You talk, I talk, you see me, it's a lot different. So if a woman wants to be a part of a group, I get that, but I would encourage her to look at to what degree it's requiring you to sacrifice depth because you want to be in the squad. So if you're in a group chat, Cool, whatever. But if it's one of those things where it's like the expectation is we only hang out as the group. Now this is limiting my opportunities to hang out with girls within the group. You know, it's something to look at. If you're in a friend group, I feel like the only way it works is if people have other friends outside of the group. I feel like you need to have secure attachment because people are going to have Friendships and other places. Are you okay with that? And we also have to prioritize the group. Uh, so it can't be like, uh, some of us are constantly hanging out without the other people we need to be mindful of. Man, it's been a while since we all got together. So just think through what your goal is. Your friendship goals, and if having a friend group aligns with your goals, or if it just feels nice to be a part of something bigger than yourself and I feel like if you ask yourself those questions, maybe you'll, you'll arrive at answers of what you need to do.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 36:17

Yeah, I feel like that comes up a lot when her and I, we love to plan a thing. So when we're trying to plan a thing, our birthdays are very much back to back. She's December 21. I'm January 8th. And so. It being all around the holidays, we're trying to, you know, who can we get together? Like where can we go? And it's more often not like surrounding those things. But on the day to day, like I have always appreciated the one-to-one. I've always appreciated. Let me go grab coffee with someone. I just did that the other day. Was an old friend who moved back to the state and it was so nice. And yeah, I suppose at that time it was a catch up situation, but it was in a completely different context. She brought one of her kids. It's like, we both have kids now. And the last time I saw her, it was not the case. So it was I feel like it was a very beautiful thing. And getting to relearn someone is also a beautiful opportunity when it's like, they were in your life before. Things happen where they became a long distant friend or you guys just kinda lost touch and coming back to each other and figuring out how we can establish a new connection and establish a new friendship. I feel like that happened between her and I as well, because I am with child and, and she's not. So it was a very interesting dynamic to explore and very quickly, she did not meet my daughter until she turned two. Yeah. So it was a, really interesting experience to have. And then to essentially like what we talked about earlier, figure out all of these different things that were happening in our lives separately, but simultaneously. was so interesting and we didn't know that they were happening at those times. So I think re establishing those connections with sort of like long term friendships can be equally as important if that is your goal, rather than seeking out a huge friend group. And then you might find yourself doing that more and more, and then all of a sudden you do have a group. So I, I like that. I like that a lot. Yeah. Yeah, especially in, I think I'm really happy to see that we're in an age right now that in the media where they're celebrating friendships, right? Like wicked just came out. It's all about friendship. There's a lot of like things at the forefront that are talking about women's friendships. Even we watched the golden globes last night and it's like, there's just so many women being celebrated. I'm so happy that we're in this time. And I've always, I felt a little isolated as. In my early twenties, because I mean, we all grow up, we get in relationships and that kind of becomes our priority. And I was always like, but, but my girls, like, I just have always felt this like deep connection and with my girlfriends. And I, I'm really happy that most of my experiences with female friendships have been positive ones especially in, in childhood and like adolescence. But I think that one thing that we can really Kind of what you were saying earlier is reframing our mind watching like what we're consuming is also reframing the beautiful parts of friendship and making sure that we're prioritizing, celebrating each other, like you were saying, the appreciation and letting each other know. I think that's a small way to really Continue that bond. There's sometimes where I don't reach out to someone I haven't talked to in such a long time because I'm like, well, so much time has gone by that now it's like kind of awkward, but there's been times where people have reached out to me, you know, after a few years of not talking. And I was like, Oh my gosh, Tracy, I'm so glad to like hear from you. Like, I feel special now that you were thinking about me. So sometimes I think, you know, nurturing friends the way that we do. Other relationships in our lives can just be so fulfilling and it can look similar, even though we kind of treat it differently or can treat it differently.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 40:14

Yeah, definitely. And I think that key, the key word is just, you know, intention in, in, I know that's a popular word, but I just want to encourage women that the idea that female friendships or friendships are, are easy, natural and organic. When you believe that. You often put less effort toward it because you trained yourself like, Oh, just, I mean, it should just happen naturally. In fact, there was this research study where they asked people, do you believe that friendships should happen easily and naturally and organically? Or do you expect that it might take work? And then they followed these people over, five years and then they asked them again, and they noticed that the people who reported that they believe friendship should be easy and organic were reporting greater degrees of loneliness. Then people who said they expected that it might take work. And so for the woman who is hearing this right now and she's listening and she's like, man, does it take all that? Do I need to be making the coffee days and doing that? Yes. Because if you believe that like it should just happen and that that's evidence that it's a real friendship, that it just happened, it's just not true. Especially once you're getting late twenties, early thirties, we've got other things going on. So. You know, there was a time when it maybe felt organic. So you thought it was natural because you were in a place filled with your peers for eight hours a day where there were literally people telling you, okay, now go to recess and play. Okay, now everybody go to lunch. Okay, we're all living in the dorm together. Those things were happening to me without your knowledge. And you had these social institutions who were manufacturing opportunities for you. While the research tells us that your social network grows and grows until about the age of 26. And then it starts to decrease. At this point we have to start looking and making those opportunities for ourselves. Now you're in charge of your calendar. And maybe now your friends have moved. What are we going to do? So the whole, it'll just happen, either, uh, you have not updated your ideas and expectations around adult friendship. Or you're in friendships and I hate that. Let's just keep it real. You're in friendships where it feels natural to you, but it might mean that the other person's doing the work and you're around here talking about, I just feel like it's natural. No, she's the one who's calling you every week and coming up with ideas for what you guys can do when you hang out. And she's got it on her calendar to remember your doctor's appointment that you were anxious about to remind her to ask you about that. But for you, it feels so easy. She's doing the work. And so I'm not saying that friendships. You ought to feel hard, but I'm saying the same planning you put around your professional goals or your health journey, the same intention to think about it and come up with a plan. You might need to do the same thing about friendship, and it doesn't mean the quality or the closeness of your friendship with any less that you have to do that. If anything. It's an indicator that you value it because you're taking the time to do it.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 43:11

Yeah. My mom always told me growing up, you have to be a good friend to have good friends. And when I stopped being in that mentality of. No one's reaching out to me. Things aren't, you know, happening for me and I just put myself out there and was okay with the rejection or not necessarily rejection, but you know, if things kind of dry up and fizzle out or it's not being reciprocated, well, eventually I'm going to call in those people that are meant to be in my life. But I'm not going to do that if I'm just in my house being better than I don't have anyone to do things with and not reaching out to people and inviting them to things. I'm like, wow, what a concept, Crystina.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 43:49

No, I, that's, that's so good. You know, one of the things we say that I always lead with with clients in the coaching program, like a big thing I'm always saying is that you have to Adopt being a connector as a part of your identity. And I know that sounds kind of, you know, woo woo, like, you know, embody it. And I, I'm not really a woo woo girly, but I'm saying it because it works. And so, anyway, I'll spare you all the research on it, but essentially when you make things like a part of your identity, instead of a behavior, you're just going to try on like a verb, quite literally if you make it a noun instead of a verb, it's more, It will stick and it will activate you. So instead of saying, you know, I like connecting with people and they like doing little things to connect. Those are verbs. I like to connect, but when it's, I'm a connector. That's who I am. Then whether or not I text you or plan a Galentine's party or reconnect with an old friend, I'm doing it because that's who I am. These behaviors are consistent with who I am as opposed to well, I mean, I'll do it if they do it first and if I'll do it if they, no, no. At some point we have to say I have agency. I have some authority. Over my friendship story. I don't have to wait for people to pick me, wave to me, text me. And so if I do wave or I invite girls to my party and they reject it. That sucks. That's going to sting. But so much of life comes down to how you metabolize rejection. I don't now start saying I'm, I'm done. It's okay. Well, you know what? That gave me some data that I actually need to know who to invest in. So she's a great girl. Sure. But something's not aligning. She either doesn't have the time or the interest in me. Either way, it makes this pursuit now inappropriate. So now I turn my attention to girls who are giving it back. But I'm not going to stop doing it because being a connector is who I am. And to your point, the woman who shows up like that, connecting, friendships are just a natural byproduct of showing up that way every day.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 45:46

In any relationship, it's going to take that amount of work. If you, if you care deeply enough to make. That's something strong and something constant in your life. And it's like, as you're explaining it, it's sounds like dating. It sounds like taking inventory of the people that you have in your, in your life or that are involved in your life and figuring out who's, who's giving when you're giving, like, who's giving back. Right. And so we just had this conversation recently. It's like, I had a date and I'm like waiting for the text, you know, cause I'm not. I'm not texting first. I need you to check in with me. Like, hey, did you get home safe? Like, how are you today? Like, are you feeling any better? And if I'm not getting that, guess what? Not in alignment. Not for me, right? So in the same way that we spend so much time, if you are in your dating era, which a lot of us in our 30s are right now It's the same with friendships, if not more serious, because a lot of the time it's like you can have a lifelong friendship and those friendships will see you through the divorce or separation a breakup. And you'll not have that romantic relationship in your life anymore, but the friend will always be there. So it's like putting in that time, definitely putting in that workout. When someone says it needs to be natural and organic, sure. That can, I can have that feeling, but only if both people are showing up in that way.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 47:21

Yeah. absolutely.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 47:23

one of the things you do touch on, on the book is black women tending to feel safer with other black women. Our podcast, I mean, we celebrate and hold space for women of color. Everyone else is welcome to listen, but we do, we saw a gap and felt like there were less of us on podcasts. And so one of our goals was to highlight. You know, black and brown women more. Do BIPOC women experience friendships differently?

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 47:51

So I'll say that, Universally, we're all looking for the same things. I need friendships where I feel affirmed and safe. I'm growing here. We enjoy each other's company and we can share and offer emotional support across the board. But yes, uh, women of color often report that they find more understanding affirmation and support in, uh, Friendships with people of the same race, same ethnicity. Now, does this mean it's guaranteed? No, of course not. I mean, I've definitely had black friends where I'm like, okay, yes, finally. And then they say something, you're like, oh my God, that's anti black. Like what you're saying is not okay. You know, so they're not mutually exclusive, sadly. Right. But yeah, you know, a lot of people would argue that friendship is supposed to offer a sense of, of, Ease a piece of refuge and sometimes befriending somebody where I already know that you know what it's like to navigate this world in a brown body that I can speak to you in shorthand. I can say girl and you're just like, I saw that too. Okay. Right. And I don't have to explain that. Like, yes, what the store clerk said to me was racist and not have to be with somebody who's like, I mean, but are you sure though? Or do you think that she was just A lot of people would say that if you're in predominantly white spaces, especially that sometimes we feel like we have to be on to some degree. And there's something about coming back to friendships, which are an entirely elective relationship. I don't have to be here. And I needed to offer some sense of, of peace and natural flow and refuge. And I don't want that be on or explaining to you. Now, am I saying that I need to have All black friends all the time, you know, some people I've talked to women who are like, you know, I've been hurt so much and disappointed and offended so much by other groups that yes, that's the circle I want around me, you know, but, you know, I always say like, look at your intersectional identities. Okay. you're a woman, you're a Brown woman, you are maybe a Christian woman or a mom. You need to be in communities for each one of those identities because it affirms them. So like, yeah, I have kids, but, and it's nice to have mom friends, as a black woman, I need to have black women who get it, you know, but also having a woman outside of that, it adds texture to my friendship landscape. It offers me perspective. It expands my world. But a lot of women do report feeling safe. Okay. And seen and a sense of understanding with women who know what it's like to navigate the world and a brown body.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 50:25

Yes, agreed. I like, to your point though, that it's not always going to be those girls. It's not always going to be those women. I've had plenty of Latina friendships who felt comfortable All the time telling me I wasn't enough of this or enough of that, or I was whitewash and my coconut, things like that. And I'm like, if you don't understand how that wasn't even my choice. I just got brought into the world the way that I got brought into the world. Right. I recently learned from my maternal grandmother that I'm at least fourth generation. Cause she was talking to you about it. That like her, her great grandma. I think was the last person to be born in Mexico. And that's. You know, in California specifically is not super common. A lot of my peers were first generation and they just didn't understand why I wasn't. I'm like, well, I, that's just how I got here, you know? And so having those friendships where Maybe it's a Latina who does understand like, okay, like I can understand why, you know, your native language wasn't Spanish. Like your parents didn't feel comfortable speaking it. Also it was a huge part of assimilation in the nineties. You're not speaking any other language than English because this is America, right? It's not celebrated. Now we have these, you know, Spanish immersion schools where it's like being bilingual is a huge Plus, and a great sign of intelligence. And so now, you know, being where I am now, it's like, I'm working with multilingual learners and it's like, not only Spanish, and I have kids who are speaking all different types of languages and being able to kind of. understand their experience without having gone through it myself. It makes me feel like, okay, I can now have coworkers who are my friends, who maybe understand that a little bit differently than maybe my peers growing up. And so I think to your point is that we're all looking for the same thing and it's not always going to be found in another Brown woman. It could be, or maybe not even in the same culture or in the same ethnicity. Like I work with two Indian women who I align with very much. And I'm, that was unexpected from me, but I love that. And I love that I can make those connections. So maybe not within my same ethnic group, but we're all Brown at the end of the day. You know? So we do understand this kind of, we're towing the line of like, how much do we assimilate, how much do we. Show up as our full and true authentic selves in our professional space as well. Yeah,

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 53:11

Yeah. And I, that's a terrific example of how, you know, to some degree we find home safety ease and other ways. We're like, okay, this brings up some stuff, but it's important to have women who kind of mirror to you. That experience and maybe who've gone before you, like women who are the same ethnicity, but older. And they can say, Hey, here's how I advanced at work, or here's how I had that experience. And here's what you can expect, you know, so even intergenerational friendships and, and, and the value of those dynamics as well. So, you know, I, I think what we're saying is, I think a lot of it comes down to you know, there's research that finds that people who have relational diversity have better wellbeing, like they're, they're. And by relational diversity, I'm not just talking about like, oh, you need some white women in your group, but like, they're talking about the types of friends you have. Women who have more types are happier and healthier. So that means, you know, the woman who has her sister as her bestie and she's friends with her neighbor. That's terrific. But the woman who has her sister, her neighbor, her happy hour friends, mom, friends, college friends, work friends, that woman, her wellbeing is better than the one who has fewer types of friends. So to that degree, I encourage all of us to have friends of different textures who affirm us in different ways because you know, not to be dramatic, it becomes a matter of life and death and how happy you are, how fit you are in your body. It really is that serious.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 54:37

that was like a, a shocking fact that I learned from your book is that it really does affect your physical health.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 54:44

Mm hmm. Yeah, and I hope I like leading conversations kind of with that and to encourage us to look at friendship from a wellness perspective because so often it's like, you know, yeah, I love my girls and like, I love brunches and like, for sure, all those things benefits, right? But when you realize that it has more of an impact on your longevity than your diet and then in your exercise, which obviously is super important. Okay, but the impact is. Greater when you have more friends. So like, yes, make resolutions around eating. Yes. Work out more for sure. But like, what are your friendships looking like? Because that's a greater predictor of how satisfied you feel with your life when you're in your deathbed and how happy and how well you are in your body. And you know, there's even something that found that the number one, killer of women is heart disease. That's the number one way. It's taking us out heart disease, but having strong friendships cuts it by 30%. So it really is something that I hope encourages us to make it more of a priority, the same way we would anything else. We just don't see it modeled or promoted to us as often.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 55:54

Agree. Well, we so appreciate your time. We know we're getting towards the end of it. So to round out our time, and I think that we led into this nicely, how are you honoring yourself this Black History Month?

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 56:10

so I think for me, the way I feel like I'm honoring myself, my blackness during this month, honestly, is supporting other black women because it reminds me that I'm a part of something bigger than myself. And it makes me feel. Just like seen and it makes me feel like I matter and it makes me feel like, yeah, I have a family, I have people. And so even if I don't know the woman personally whose business I supported or whatever it is, just by saying, you know what, we're, we're buying all black this year. And if I can get the same thing from a black woman who made it with her hands, like that's something I'm going to commit to for the year. I just feel like I'm a part of this movement of women who, who are like me. And that is affirming to me as a person. It increases my confidence. It makes me have higher self esteem to be able to look around and be like, yes, look at us. You know, uh, it makes me feel like I'm a part of a community and I think community care is self care. So that small act of, if I can get this, Made by a black woman in her specific way, then I'm going to just shift the person I buy it from that act, uh, this year is one way that I am caring for myself and my community as a black person.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 57:22

Yeah, I love that. I think to round out this whole conversation, we've really hammered in the fact that we're in a time where we really need each other and to show up for each other and to support each other and community is really the way that we're going to progress and like see change in other areas of our world and even in our inner world. So I love that I really want to challenge myself and anyone listening to research more black owned businesses and trying to give my dollar to that over just going the easy route and hopping on Amazon and hopping on target.

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 58:00

Yeah, same. It's, it's, uh, it might be tough at first because we're, you know, you have your go to default places. But it matters. And so I love what you're saying about community. I appreciate you guys for, for bringing me on to have this conversation. I know there's, you know, a couple of people now who are, or speaking about friendships. So I don't take it for granted that you've invited me into to have this conversation with you, but I'm just glad that you're kind of leading it with this group. And I hope that it encourages women that if they haven't been intentional before that they start to, and I hope that they see the urgency around prioritizing platonic relationships.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 58:34

Yeah, I agree. Getting some friend love. Yes. Yeah. Definitely, uh, thankful for all of the women who have displayed healthy friendships for me. And I'm grateful for you. I found your content maybe two or three years ago, and it really has helped me. Kind of changed the way that I think about how I'm showing up myself and in friendships. So thank you so much for everything that you're doing. And when we started, when we were planning the podcast, you were one of the names I threw out. I'm like, I really want to have Danielle on the podcast

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 59:04

Oh, I'm so glad.

ea_1_01-06-2025_100623: 59:05

Yeah, of

danielle_1_01-06-2025_130624: 59:06

awesome. I appreciate you. And it's always nice to find women who find value in this and they see like, Oh my gosh, this, this conversation matters too. So I appreciate you for bringing me on and, and, and sharing about the book and taking the time to read the book is, is really cool. And I just appreciate you. And, and the goal for me is just to show women all that is possible and available to them on their friendship landscape. So thank you for giving me an opportunity to do that here.

ea_2_01-06-2025_111805: 59:33

Y'all, when we say, like, we were trying to keep it cool. I hope we came across as cool ish. I think we did. Yeah. When we say fangirl, we really mean that shit. Like, of course, we have a Google Sheets. You know, we have a Google Sheets organized by, like, what it is that's happening on the podcast. And there's a tab and it's called Dream Guests. And when we tell you she's lived in the Dream Guests tab for, since we We're in the planning stages when we're talking about like, I was gonna say since May, but before May. Yeah. Before May. Yeah. Before last May. Uh, it was, it was a no brainer, but it was also a reach. Cause it's like, who are we? But. In a way, it's taught us that, like, everyone is kind of just in that same playing field, right? And as much as, like, we can think that, it's just really not true. Yeah. And at the same time, I do still feel very, like, surprised. And honored all at once. When someone like Danielle was like, yeah, absolutely. We're going to have this conversation. I'm like with me, with us. And it's like a yes. Like, of course it's what we're doing here is very important and always bringing that confidence to the table. I think it's really important, but sometimes it does kind of feel like a, Oh shit, for real. Yeah. As Danielle said During the episode we're all looking for similar things. We're looking for connection. We're looking to connect with other women, support other women. Be affirmed. Be affirmed. And so I think that we often kind of not put it, put it ourselves in a box, but we kind of get in this like imposter mode of like, who us? Yeah. But. I do. Yeah, I think that at the end of the day, also like Danielle said, your true intentions are going to shine through and I think that it was just, it fits the pods, it fits us, it's just who we are and it's why we talk about friendship on the podcast so much is because we truly do. Value and care about that shit and think that it should be protected and celebrated. And we, like we said in the episode, we really appreciate how many more conversations are happening surrounding this idea of female friendship specifically. And we will of course link everything. We did forget to ask her to shout everything out, but everything will be linked in the show notes. And you guys should really, if you guys are not, uh, audio book girlies pick it up. It came literally in one day. If you want to order off of her website, that'll be linked as well. I'm fighting for our friendships. It's so good. It's broken down so easy. It's very easy to understand. Extremely easy to digest. And one of those things that's like, you can revisit that more and more as you go throughout your friendships with different people. And it's something that you can like pick it up and like, Oh, let me like flip through the chapter where she talked about this, or let me flip through the chapter where she talked about conflict. Because I don't know what to do when I'm in this situation now. And she just breaks it down so that. It's so easy. Like what you were saying, it's like, you can't have a real true connection without conflict. So it's all about how you digest those things the same way Danielle was talking about digesting rejection. So I don't want to, I mean, we'll talk your ears off about how much we love her, how much we love these ideas how much we love the book. But we want to know what you thought about it. So please Spotify comments, YouTube comments. Let us know what are, what's your opinion on the group friendships versus the one on one. Like, where do you find yourself right now in your friendship? On your friendship journey. Yeah. Are you in a place where you are putting your feelers out to make new friends? Or are you good with the people that you have and you just want to grow with those people? We're always in different stages of our lives. At different times. And it's like, you can't always be set. I thought I was set with my relationships two years ago. And then it just, there were a lot of friendships and people that just needed to fall out of my life and it's okay. So there's always going to be this process of new and growing simultaneously. Also, I want to know what Galentine's Day. And if you loved this episode, please share it with one of your gals. Yeah. Tag your gal. Tag your gal. Share it. Share the YouTube. If you guys are like tried and true podcast app girlies or Spotify podcast app girlies, send the audio episode too because we're here for all of it. It can be a small way to let a friend know that you're thinking of her or that you're wanting to prioritize your friendship more. Yeah. Send her the episode. Hey! I was listening to this podcast. It actually made me think about you and how grateful I am for you. The appreciation and adore. Absolutely. Yes. We love an acronym around here. Yeah. So that's it. We'll leave you with that. We'll let you kind of digest all the things that we discussed. Of course, we're so appreciative of Danielle for coming on. It was like a huge. Full circle moment for certain. Oh yeah. You guys between us, when she messaged me on Instagram, I felt like Beyonce was, was messaging me, we were eating dinner and I was like, yeah, I was like, Oh no, what is, what is this? But yeah, it's been, it's definitely been a journey and it's been quite a few months in the making and we're so happy to just have made it to this point and we're so happy to have made that connection with her. So with all of that, we were going to leave you with a prayer on this Galentine's. So Let us pray. Spirit, grant me the serenity to sit with the idea of taking inventory of my friendships. Be courage to show up as a connector. And the wisdom to not spiral on a bitch when she tries me. And so it is. Bye.