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#11 Ryan Horgan: Where The Fear Lies, Growth Follows

• John Gillman

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Have you ever tried to integrate your shadow self? Are modern-day self-help influencers as honest as they seem? Meet Ryan Horgan, a rising voice in men's personal development, who has built an impressive following on YouTube by tackling modern societal issues.

In this video, Ryan dives into why many young men today are giving up and the potential shift in mindset among younger generations. We explore the critical importance of self-awareness and discovering your true purpose, as Ryan shares his personal journey from hitting rock bottom to overcoming adversity.

The discussion also exposes the hypocrisy among self-help influencers, emphasizing the need for skepticism, the negative effects of social media, and the importance of setting boundaries for mental health.

Whether you're looking for clarity, inspiration, or practical strategies to maintain a positive mindset, this video offers valuable insights to support your journey toward self-discovery, resilience, and fulfillment.

Wherever the fear is, wherever those uncomfortable feelings are, that's kind of where the goal lies. I'm not sure if I've identified my shadow yet. I know it's there. I couldn't tell you what it is. I don't think we have any idea what it is. You'll die one day. It's a nice thought. They're closer to the source than me and you. I'd be homeless and I'd back myself to be at peace. That's why I felt like so miserable. I could go off on the deep end now, man. I like to try and come from like a place of love. I'll give you a super quick introduction, Ryan, from what I know of you anyway. Um I know you have a really interesting YouTube channel, and you kind of focus on men's mental health and men's personal development. And then you also commentate on social issues today. I saw you call out a few YouTubers also, which Ienjoyed. Yeah, would that be an accurate description, Ryan?That's a good bird's eye view right there, yeah. Yeah, a bird's eye view. I'm sure there is more to you. But, yeah. I watched one of your videos recently, Ryan, and you made the point that a lot of guys are giving up. Why Why do you think that is true, or can you explain that? Why Why guys are giving up?I mean, it's it'sIt's multifaceted, right?There's There's a lot of things going on. There's a hell of a lot of things going on. I mean, you can trace it back to destruction of nuclear families, one. That's a massive part of it. You're brought up in a system that tells you the way to think, education-wise. You know, go to school essentially to act like a girl, really. You know, sit down, be quiet, listen up. Umyou grow up, you're told to go get a job, or go to uni, get a job, get a degree, blah blah blah blah. We all know that story, the whole system and everything else. And this was this was a system that people could buy into for a long time. Like almost ignorance is bliss in a way, especially post World War II. And then men wereThe breadwinners right men were the ones that were expected to go to work and so on and then you and then you throw in feminism, okay, you can throw in feminism on top of that and and the rise of of women women's like liberation and power which has many benefits to that of course, right, but it's got to the stage where they set the expense of men and then you fast forward to a stage where menmen don't feel, men aren't felt so needed you know, they're not as needed as they were, they don't feel as as valued as they were, they're not as respected as they were in general in society and so on and with women are celebrated. Anything a woman does that a man traditionally would do anyway is sort of raised really high and celebrated whereas no one gives really a shit about men. And so You throw in all of those factors and and there's many other factors and inflation going crazy. It's difficult for a man on a single wage to to raise a family by himself. So that's kind of emasculating in a way as well. So many other things that goes into it. And then the rise of leftist politics like world culture and so on. denigrates masculinity, etc., etc. And you're left in a stage where we we are now, where yeah I feel like generally men are really struggling in a way. You know Men are struggling in a big way, whether that's financially, whether that's physically, whether that's relationship-wise, whether it's spiritually, whatever it is. They're in a sorry state, even though seemingly we have it pretty good in the West. Ideally, you could argue we have it better than we ever have in many ways. But that comfort and that, that comfort has given rise to to things that, you know, men are trying to come to terms with and trying to find their place again. Do you think, like, do you think there's a lot of anger in the red pill space? Yeah. Do you think some people are extreme?It's like extreme views. Yeah. YeahDuring COVID, I would have watched like a lot of red pill content. That's when I first started watching like a lot of like social political issues on YouTube. And it definitely doesn't make you like happy watching that stuff nonstop. Like you said, there's a lot of anger in the red pill. Most people find the red pills on women through heartbreak, right?There's some woman that's cheated on them or they've had rejection after rejection. So a lot of guys in there immediately just going in there with like fury, you know. pain. Like you said, there's a lot of good, there's a lot of truth, but there's a lot of a lot of shit in there as well. Do you think that like, you think some of these kind of self-help influencers, you think they, like there's one guy I know you talked about on your channel, Hamza, do you think they can be manipulative?So like, like Hamza in general or you mean like the majority of them?Well, let's go with Hamza. Do you think that they kind of they feed off of like males' loneliness? Yeah, Yeah to some degree. I mean, to some degree. Do they intentionally start off that way or do they see it as an opportunity? I don't know, it's it's hard to tell. With Hamza, you know, I'd watch a bit of Hamza 'cause even though I'm an older guy, you know, people like always, even on my channel, they're like, Bro, you're like 36, why are you watching Hamza?It's like,Yeah, I've had a passion for helping younger guys out for a long time now, even with my with my coaching career. So I kept an eye on Hamza for a long time. I'll be completely honest, Hamza, like my my spidey sense was going off with Hamza like from the start. I didn't, I felt there was something sus there a little bit. He spoke a lot of sense, but This was, I always got the impression that this guy like hadn't really, his knowledge, what he was talking about was like from books essentially, not like from my experience or anything like that. Yeah. I looked into his background, I was like, I mentioned this in the video that went viral, but the guys barely had any life experience really looking at story and stuff. So I kind of found it weird how he developed such a massive following, I mean it really was like a huge following, two million followers for a24, 25 year old that kind of really hasn't done much. Yeah, he's very charismatic. He's very charismatic and he speaks very confidently. Yes. I think, yeah. Yeah He knows, he knows how to sell himself. He knows what he's doing in that regard. I will give credit where it's due. He is very clever, he's smart, he knows what he's doing. But as time has gone on, I think he has been a little bit exposed for his lack of,Lack of experience in many ways, yeah. Lack of experience, okay. Yeah. Do you think you should be like, do you think it's wise to have like a healthy amount of skepticism with a lot of these young influencers?Like there's a lot of like, there's so many guys online like selling different courses and how to make 10k a month and so many agency owners who, and multi-million dollar agencies and other coaches, et cetera, et cetera, and you know, leave the matrix and There's a lot of this kind of like rhetoric online. Yeah And I see so many guys who are like setting up marketing agencies now. And my friend was a teacher in Prague. He was a secondary school teacher. And he said the one name he always hears amongst like 17, 18 year old guys is Iman Gadzi. Yeah, which is funny, like, 'cause he's like literally like, he has like such influence amongst young guys like through like TikTok and Instagram. Yeah, Yeah I mean, Iman's huge, right, five million. Yeah, I know I know a bit about Eman and stuff and we can get on to that but yeah he's amongst the teenagers, the young guys. Yeah. He's huge man, he's absolutely huge, that's what I'm really looking up to, yeah. YeahBut But I just want to touch on the skepticism man, absolutely, absolutely like skepticism on everything. Anyone even watching me, you want to watch my channel you know, of course, think about it, question it. Try and put two and two together. Do people contradict themselves? Do they, you know, they say one thing in one video and another thing in another? Yeah, yeah it's usually as time goes on, if people are, if it's smoke and mirrors, people, over time, people can't keep up with their lives. They, you know, they trip over their own feet. What do you think of the phrase, self-improvement is masturbation Yeah, that's a good one, that's a good one. It's It's a great quote. A lot of people misunderstand that quote. The notion of self-improvement, again, it's like this, right?Self-improvement masturbation what's masturbationIt's feel good, it makes you feel good, right, you know. Do this, go to the gym, buy this, buy that, get this closed, make yourself feel good, right? Self-masturbation, you know, you're masturbating the ego in many ways. umm But what also is masturbationYou know, it's not the real thing. It's a substitute for the real thing. The real thing, I believe a lot of self-awareness, a lot of diving in, a lot of unraveling. I think that's more of the game, you know, peeling back the layers, then trying to add layers on self improvements, like trying to add layers on, umm add more, do more, be better, get this, do that. Whereas I think the real game isPeel it back, peel it away, get rid of all the dead work, get rid of all the shitAnd then you and then you get much clearer idea of who you really are. Because as I was saying earlier as well, everything you've been told, like who are we?The question is who are we?Who am I? Who are you?You know, most of us don't know. Most of us don't know what we are. We've been told certain stories and we've told ourselves certain stories because of. you know, the the expectations placed on us and everything else, and people don't know who we are, but when you when you figure that out, or you can't fully figure out who you are because we're so complex, but if you can get some type of grasp on it, then you can get a much clearer idea of where you want to go, and actually who you really want to be. And since I've been doing that, since I've been going into that approach,I've kind of stepped away from the self-improvement thing almost cheesy saying like self-improvement you know and red pill and all this. I've sort of stepped away you know going down more this authentic route and what I really want to do. So So you have to find out who you are to know where you want to go. Yeah, that's one thing I preach massively is like self-discovery man, self-discovery. 100%, because I was saying this in one of the calls inside the Yo Anz community and we're talking about this, one of my best responses to a cause was like, one thing I said was I think we all hear this story of really successful people, you know, multi millionaires, they have everything, they have the cars, the mansions, all of this stuff, and they say they're unhappy. And I think one of the things, there's a few things to it, but I think one of the things is, um these people haven't haven't really reflected on who they are enough and they sit there and they they think I I thought this was going to make me happy because this is what society tells me. If I get the cars, if I get 100 million in the bank, then this is going to make me happy and then it doesn't because that's not really what they wanted because they didn't know who they were. And if you find out who you are, maybe maybe it is what you want, maybe you still do want that stuff or maybe it's something else, you know maybe it's something completely different. And that's, for me, if you can align your your internal with your external, you can align yourself, you understand who you are, then you can derive and create, or maybe not create, maybe you can choose the values that you want to live by and then you live by those values, regardless of whatever outcome comes by, that for me is the definition of success. So this is why I preach that self-awareness so much. Is solitude something that you think is important, like moments of solitude and like being on your own for a while and kind of figuring things out?It's so important, man, especially like I said, if you want if you want to peel away the layers. Like it's something now, because I'm a father to, I'm so busy, I barely have any times of solitude anymore. And I look back on my times, pre-kids or single, and I just, I have some regret, in that I didn't do it, I didn't make the most of those times to reflect and and a little bit more of self-discovery and value setting and stuff. And that's that's the times, you need those moments, you need those those times where you can't do it, you can't do it when you're surrounded with other people, when you're busy, you can't you can't reflect, you can't have... You can't ask yourself the deeper questions. You can't get to know yourself on a deeper level if you don't have those moments. It's impossible, in my opinion. So, as much as you can, not too much, right?Some people go a little bit too much, they go on monk mode for a little bit too long or a little bit too often. Um But yeah, do it as much as you can in keeping it in a healthy amount, whatever that looks like for you. It's funny you mentioned Monk Mode. I actually tried Monk Mode for the first time in January. Yeah My buddy and I did it. He He moved out to Spain with me, and we were living together. I think we did it for around six weeks, and like we were super dialed in, like planning out a week to like a tea, and like every morning up

to 7:

00 a.m., like tracking our like meditation, stretching, reading, workout. only Saturday was our only rest day and like we didn't drink and like, yeah, yeah I think after like three weeks, I was just like so unhappy and yeah, 'cause I'm I'm quite extroverted. I've I've realized now that I'm quite extroverted. I always thought I was like in the middle, but my friend who did it with me, he's like a lot more introverted, so kind of suited him better, but I definitely think that, like I was actually watching like guys like Hamza talk about it and he was like, like you know, on his stories, like just coming out of,just coming out of a season of Monk mode and like, you know, feeling good and I was definitely influenced by a lot of those guys and like, yeah, yeah but I don't know, I definitely have mixed feelings about it. Like I did actually make a bit of progress with like work and the gym and stuff. But yeah, it was a funny time. Like I definitely, it was after like six weeks, I was like, I definitely felt a bit like isolated. Yeah. Well, you had that you you had that realization, right?You're more ready than you thought. And there's value in right. Sometimes sometimes the value isn't realizing that this isn't serving me. Sometimes that value is itself. Chris, Chris Williamson's makes a really good point about mug mark and that it can be like a, you know, the the introvert types and stuff, they can almost see it as a virtue in a way and and it canjustify them being on their own and not having to be social. Yeah And then they get trapped in that, they get lost in it, and next thing they know, they're just socially retarded but ignorantly or like obnoxiously virtuous about it, and it's really not the case. So it can be a bit dangerous, it can be a slim free slow. Hmm Well, definitely don't regret doing it. Sometimes I've made like silly decisions you know like went like partying for like too long. I was like, what was I doing there?You know I've done some stupid things and I'm like, I was an idiot. I definitely don't regret trying it because at least now I know. You wouldn't do it again. You're not going to do another round. Yeah, it's a good question. I think I'll probably do it for like three weeks, maybe. I'll do it for a lot shorter. I'm actually considering doing it for like two weeks, maybe in the future with a friend who wants to get involved in the podcast. I don't think I could do it longer for three weeks. Yeah, interesting, interesting. I think for a lot of people it's, it's I think it puts people's nervous system in a in a bad state. You know, we're social creatures, we need to we need to be social, completely isolated and locking yourself off to the world without even realizing that you're sort of in some heightened, anxious state. Do you think adversity is important? Massively. You You can't, you're not gonna know who you are without those moments. You're not gonna know what you're made of, what you know, where's your, what you're capable of, how resilient you are, where's your limits?Yeah, they're so vital and and like, but what's what's vital is you get a good balance of life, life's gonna throw those curdles at you, they're gonna, it's gonna throw that advice at you anyway, life. Life hits fucking hard, man, but during those moments of, of you know, it's not always like that, right?So there are good times and so on. I'm a big advocate in in throwing yourself into challenging situations, you know, putting yourself forward and and challenging yourself and finding adversity where you can. Massive advocate for that. So yeah, massive, yeah, vital, absolutely vital. Was there anything in particular, like for me, I remember I got like basically beaten up on a night out once. I got assaulted. It was in my hometown, like everyone knew about it and there was like loads of gossip about it and like the police were involved. The whole town was talking about it and like I got kicked in the face and stuff and like dragged around the dance floor. I was like super like, for like two months I was like very like anxious. I felt like super overwhelmed after it. In university, I was 100% like a people pleaser. And I think after that situation, like after like having all this drama and all this gossip, like I was like, for some reason after it, I just stopped being a people pleaser. And like in university then, I was like huge into like partying and like going to like raves and nightclubs and like just like trying to be cool, you knowLiterally just, yeah, trying to like please people andDefinitely was like, after that incident, I think, yeah, it definitely like made me reflect and made me question things and like made me like, what am I actually doing with my life?So that was my one, like whenever I asked that question, that was, for me, that was why I asked it, because I think it was an important moment. Yeah. No, that's that's a shitty thing that happened, but It's interesting though. It sounds like, because you can you can go two ways. You were already a people pleaser, so you didn't, then you were just like, ohh fuck people or you just didn't trust them. How was it?Well, I realized who my friends were during this situation because like I had like big social groups and you know certain people just didn't want to get involved. The other guy maybe has a bit of a name where I'm from anddidn't want to be associated with me because they didn't want to get involved. And there's loads of drama, there's loads of rumors. And then I realized when I was like super anxious after it and like, you know, there's a lot of gossip about me and stuff. And like I realized when I felt terrible, like I can't entertain like these kind of draining relationships anymore because like what's going to happen the next time something like that happens?Yeah, that's not. Most people have very, very few good friends, right? Eventually that that gets revealed to you who they are. YeahUsers, stuff like that. Yeah. I think it's just a reality, really. I saw on your channel that you spoke about when you were younger that like you had, you got bullied. You had like a few like pretty, John, it sounded pretty like horrific incidents. And it's funny when like you shared that, when you shared aboutthose when you shared those incidents on your channel, like really gave me like a feel a lot more context into like where you were coming from with your points. I think by you like opening up about like those issues, like it does give a lot more context into like who you are and where you're coming from. I hope that's the case, you know, hope it's the case. I just like you were mentioning before, you know, with influences and stuff like I don't want I want to I want to put be as honest andAs clear as I can. You know I don't I don't want to put no image. I don't want to be one of those guys like I've put it all together and I'm perfect and no flaws. You know, fuck that, man. That doesn't exist, man. If you genuinely believe that about yourself, you're a raving narcissist anyway. So, umm yeah, I just just try to be as honest as I can, man, and real, and I want people to to know my story in that way. And yeah, there were there were some rough things that happened and stuff, but I see him as, you know it's molding me into the person I am today. I turned it around to try to make it as much of a strength as possible. One thing I noticed with this podcast, I was kind of saying, Will I do it or will I won't do it?for a long time, and then I finally grew up here. I was so afraid of what certain people would say, what some haters might say, or whatever, and I've only got positive feedback from it so far and like so many people like kind of friends of friends like reach out to me like about certain points and like I found that really interesting and yeah, so like really built up my network and I was just, all I could think, I just couldn't visualize that any positive outcome would come from it when I was starting it. I was just like, my logic was just do this so you'll stop tormenting yourself about doing it. And then, but it's so easy to like focus on likeThe negatives. Yeah, I can relate. I can relate with with even starting YouTube. Right. I don't know. I don't know about you. I'm not like I put I I tried to be honest as I kind of put some of the spoken about some of the worst things that happened to me, let's say. It's still there. The flinch of like, especially more people that I know if they see this stuff. Only recently I've shared it on like my Instagram and let people know. about the channel and stuff, and I still flinch, you know, I still get that flinch of like, ohh you know what do they think or whatever it is, but it's very interesting as well. You know The people that actually like it and support it, they're gonna let you know. From people you know, they're never gonna give you a message and be like, what the fuck are you doing, man? This is stupid, they're not gonna you know laugh at you or anything like that, but they'll be quiet. And it's and you know, it's you know, it's the ones that you think may be your friends that you may be close with. And if they're quiet, you know, that's that often speaks a lot as well. But yeah, it's not I'm not unfallible. I try to be as open and honest as possible, but again, being open and honest, like I'm still. I still go there, I still get that that flinch of like, oh, what do people think and stuff, but. I'm used to that. I'm used to that. That's like a reflex for me now because of my past. Because of the way, you know, my my history, the stories that I've told myself, that's a reflex. But I know it's a reflex. I know it's a foggy story. So I just sort of accept it, acknowledge it, and I do it anyway. Fuck it. Take the consequences. Do you think you having your own YouTube is maybe an outcome of you stripping back the layers?It's almost like aIt's almost like a therapeutic thing. It's a lot of self-discovery just doing it as well. You know Sometimes it picks up the camera. Sometimes with the videos I've done, I just want to get things off my chest. You know It's almost quite cathartic. Just get it off your chest, talk about Sometimes it's an unraveling of an idea in my mind um and it's a creative side of me that was lost for a long time. And then you've got to think about certain topics and then you discover these topics and and as you're researching a topic to discuss about, you have a new realization and a new realization about yourself or you know new knowledge. I I recommend it for many people, I actually recommend it for many people and then again, like you said, you you put yourself out there, you expose yourself, it's like I put my ideas out there. For a lot of people that's quite scary for me getting started, it's a scary thing, ohh Jesus what are people going to think if they're going to call me out, they're going to think this is a stupid idea, that I'm stupid. You have all these things and all these things going in your head and sometimes it does happen, you get negative comments. Fuck it's actually been a really great self-development tool for me. And I love it, man, I love it. And I think in three years, the process that it's given me, like the benefits it's given me, man, I see myself doing this for a long time. And if anyone sits on the fence with this, if anyone's watching or on the fence about starting something similar, just do it, man. Just do it, because there's more more pros and cons. Do you think being creative is essential to being human? Good question. Yes. Yes I think that's why we're there. Hmm I think that's one of the main reasons we're here. I think that's the reason why I started my podcast. I was backpacking through South America last year. I went solo and I got a sabbatical from like my day job, kind of corporate nine to five IT job. And I had a lot of solitude and like I was teaching English for a while in a small town in Columbia and there was like like limited wi-fi and it was a complete detachment and it was just like a really nice time. It was a beautiful time and like I felt like so calm and happy and I think it was like then I just realized that like my lifethat I'm coming back to, this is no creativity. And I realized that was like the issue. That's why I was traveling like because I had no creative outlet. I wasn't expressing myself and that's why I felt like so miserable. All right, yeah. YeahInteresting. Yeah. But I think everyone can be creative. Man, you see this, when you have kids, that's that's like it's an instinct. It's an instinct to I I view kids as, they're closer to the source than me and you. You know, they're so young, they have this this urge, this instinct to learn, to develop, to push themselves, to challenge themselves for independence and then, and and to create and to draw and to make things and whatever it is, it's like an instinct that we have and unfortunately as we get older,For some of us, it's it's beaten out of us, it's taught out of us, or we, you know, beat out of ourselves, whatever it is. And for me personally, speaking to me personally, like it's, it's I was big on art, like I was, I was I loved art as a kid. I really loved drawing, I loved that. And I just stopped, I just stopped out of nowhere. I don't know what it was, I'm not sure what it was. Um And I feel like just getting into YouTube again, yeah, I welcome that again. It's It's a beautiful thing, man. It's a beautiful thing. And you know, when we say create, people's minds go to like amazing works of art or whatever it is, a business. Man, it doesn't have to be that. It can be just, it could be anything. It could be anything. It's subjective, right?We just create some fucking ideas and put them on the internet, that's it. You said your kids are closer to like the source. There's a book I read called The Artist's Way, and it's all about creativity and why it's so important. It's a spiritual book. It talks about like ideas being, like there's like a higher purpose almost, and like you can tap into that, and that's where you get your creativity from. AndIt's not actually your idea. It's like, it's like the universe's idea. It's like, kind of gets into energy and stuff, but what did you mean when you said your kids are closer to the source?Were you getting at spirituality there or was it just a word? Oh, I could go off on the deep end now, man. I could go off on the deep end and start talking some, well, it could sound very wacky to some, but let's, I'll try-- Some people. Yeah, I consider them... Some people will describe me as wacky, so don't worry. No judgment here. Here we go. Likewise, likewise. I'm I'm a very spiritual guy. I consider myself a spiritual person. I used to consider my spirituality quite practical. It's like, uh, it's just in terms of improving and understanding myself. I would say over the last 12 months, my belief in in a God, in a creator and in things about the universe that we don't understand has been solidified and confirmed to me and when I say that my kids are closer to the source that's where they come from and they come from the source that creates you and me here and all of us here and when you're young and you're uncorrupted by humanity and consciousness and Tao and all of this. So that's why they're that's why they're a little bit closer. And I think part of the journey is as you get older, you come out, some of us will come out the other end of it and realize, I've got to get back to that source again. I've got to get back there. I've got to get back to a little more of that childlike state. So that's what I'm alluding to. We have art so we don't die of reality. Nietzsche, my favorite. Yeah. My favorite philosophy. Yeah, that's true. Would you describe yourself as religious or just spiritual or? Yeah, not religious. I believe in God. I do believe in God, but not in a religious, I don't follow a religion. It seems slightly silly to me in that regard, but as a as a creator, a creator of the universe, I couldn't tell you what it is. I don't think we have any idea what it is, but yeah, that's that's it. I even saw a name for this, what we're called, like people who believe in God, but not in religion. I can't remember the name. I actually saw this the other day, but yeah, that's how I'd somehow. It's funny when you think like what you're actually doing, you know,like Sometimes I think about my life, my existence, and what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it, and what I think, what I think. It kind of leans into like stoicism that like you'll die one day. It's kind of like a nice thought. I think about how irrelevant my existence is in many ways, and it really kind of helps me to say whatever anxiety I have about maybe doing a podcast with you, like, Will this go well or not?It's like you have a lot less control over life than you think. It's like being the the observer rather than the person trying to control. Do you ever get anxiety or do you ever struggle with anxiety or? Yeah, massively. So maybe you probably noticed this on my channel, like social anxiety. I've had social anxiety probably like my whole adult life. Peaks and troughs, times where it's got like quite bad. unbearable, times are better. As I've gotten older it's gotten better. So yeah, I get anxious, I get anxious. I'll be honest, even in this call you get a little bit anxious, a little bit nervous, oh I hope it goes well, you know, your thoughts come up and stuff. So yeah, yeah anxiety is there for me but it's getting better. I find social media makes me like very anxious. I find it very hard to like limit my social media time. I always get drawn into like just looking at people's stories and stuff. I think it's very bad for my my energy. I don't know if you're like into like vibrations. I like to try and come from like a place of love. They say that's like the highest vibration. And like, you know, and I find that when I go on social media, I just observe in myself negative emotions. Yeah, yeah, yeah fuckSocial media is like, in my opinion, it's a net negative on... Net negative, definitely. It's a net negative on culture, humanity. Um But it's not going anywhere, unfortunately. We have to we have to try to figure out, we have to be conscious again, like self-awareness and conscious of how we use it. It's very difficult man, they're some of the smartest people in the world, they're sat in roomsthinking about ways to keep us addicted to these apps, to keep us in these apps as long as possible. And unfortunately, the tricks that they use are, they're not there to make you happy, you know. Okay, you know, dopamine spikes and everything else, but, you know, there's a lot of it is, a lot of it, yes, it makes it going to make you feel very shittyAnd of course, when you look through social media, what what you see, it's mostly everyoneYou know, it's their highlight reels, right? Everyone doing really well and doing better than you. And then there's that natural comparison that we all have. It's that instinct that kicks in. And you see some guy who's 21 years of age on a yacht, driving a Lambo and you feel shit about yourself, right, what the hell, you know?I think it makes people like lonely. And I think the more, I think there's studies that the more, I listen to a podcast with Mark Manson, he wrote the book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Talk, andthe more like lonely you feel, the more prone you are to addiction. And basically social media makes you lonely and then it's addictive anyway, and then it's just like a vicious cycle. Yeah, Yeah man. 100%, 100%, 100%. And the sad thing is as well, it's like, man, I see it, you know, people are sat there at a tablewith someone else and they're not talking to that person and they're texting someone else that is not there, but if they were if they were sat with the person they were texting, they would be texting the person they're sat with. Make sense?Yeah yeah completely. It's like what the what the fuck are people doing man?Like no no one's just there face to face connecting in real life anymore. It's so and again it just feels this feelingof like loneliness in the end. So sad to see, so sad to see. And of course, I'm guilty of it, I've been guilty of it, you knowI'm on my phone, my wife's called me out recently, I'm on my phone too much in front of the kids. Fuck it's hard, man, it's hard. These things get you, especially, you know, you're doing this podcast now, you've got to spend more time and looking up videos and research and guests. It's It's a hard balance to strike, there's a very hard balance to strike. Are you optimistic about your life? My life?Yeah, are you like optimistic about the next 10 years?Because often I find like that I just focus on the negatives, and things are rarely as bad as I think they will be. And like sometimes like my mood will fluctuate, whatever, if something didn't meet my expectations or if I was worried about something, I just like tell myself like, sometimes I forget that I will be happy again and things will get better. I think it's easy not to focus on positives, even though it sounds cliche, but I was wondering like, would you consider yourself optimistic or? Yeah, I would say genuinely, I'm optimistic. I've got a body of research to to back that up, the last 15 years or so has put me in a good place, I think why why not, why not kick on and everything else, butum Also, I don't fear so much it not going to plan. Yeah I guess that's the stoic in me, the stoic approach. I don't mind. For me personally, it'll go to shitI know I'm going to be fine. The only thing is now you know I have kids. I have people you know relying on me. So that makes it more complex, more more difficult. But yeah, I'm pretty, pretty optimistic, pretty confident and excited, excited for where it goes as well. Yeah. If it all goes to shit you'll be fine. Yeah, man. Yeah. I'll be, I'll be homeless. I'll be homeless and I'll be sleeping on the streets like maybe easy to say, but I'd back myself to be like be at peace. Why is that, do you think Ryan?Do you think you've, why do you think you have that mindset?I'm curious because I don't know if I, I'm not sure if I back myself there. Although a lot of people would, a lot of my friends would say I'm quite relaxed in ways, so maybe I would, but like I think it's a great place to be if you're not afraid of failing because I think like even my lesson from this podcast, like I was so afraid of failure and thenI just started and I realized that was holding me back all the time, when I should have just tried it. I think for me I'm not scared because I've failed so many times, I've failed at so many things, that's number one. Very rarely have I achieved a goal in a sense, like I set out to do something and I achieved it. Many failures ended up being fine. Also like I I spenttwo years like sleeping on a flea ridden mattress in a shitty pub in North London, in Tottenham, where police cars are driving past every five minutes and you don't want to look people in the eye in case they might rob you or stab you or whatever. Like real shithole, real down in the dump scenario. And And I put myself, like I said, I willingly put myself into some very challenging andscenarios and testing my resolve and mental resolve. I back myself with that stuff. That's why I back myself, you know, almost like almost like a rock bottom thing. Like I wasn't quite a rock bottom, right?I didn't go all the way and wasn't there, but, you know, not too far off, I guess. So it doesn't it doesn't faze me in that regard. So you wouldn't describe yourself as materialistic. No, no, I'm not. I've I've said this on YouTube, like I I do YouTube, yeah, I wanna make money on YouTube, but I don't, I have zero motivation for a fancy car or what, it doesn't matter, just freedom, freedom and security, that's it. If those things come about one day, who knows, but, no, not at all. Ask my wife, bro. Ask my wife, I've been wearing the same clothes for like the last 10 years, or same t-shirts, you know, my car is a mess. I just don't care, man. I don't care for that stuff. I definitely was materialistic. So, but then like after I came back from backpacking, um I really questioned like, why did I want a new watch?Like, why did I want to spend like four or 500 quid on a watch? Because I realized like, it's like filling a void and like, Even now, like my dad loves cars, and like he's like super interested in cars. He'd like take apart the engine and fix it and stuff. He's an engineer. I wouldn't I wouldn't have a clue. And he's always telling me, oh like what car are you going to get when you come home? And I'm just like, I actually don't care. He just can't understand that I'm not interested. Yeah, it's funny, man. People that are materialistic can't quite wrap their heads around it, but it's it. It's not, I don't know about you, but it's not like I reject it. It's not like I would reject yeah my swatch. It's the Buddhist principle, right?A lot of people think from the outside that Buddhism is like rejecting that stuff and it's it's not, it's just not attaching yourself to that stuff. Have a nice watch. Losing yourself. Yeah. It's fine to wear a watch. Like I would be fine to wear, have a Rolex watch if I could afford it and there's no. you know, and there's no problems financially if I was going to buy it. And I was like, you know, I like the watch because, you know, it feels good, looks good, but I wouldn't I wouldn't attach myself to it, my value to it. Whereas a lot of people that are materialistic, that's what they they put their value on, right?And they attach themselves to it. That's where that's where the problem comes. Yeah, there's an author called Eckhart Tolle. He wrote the book called The Power of Now. I watched the video with him and he talks about like materialism and he's like, If you lose yourself in an object. The way he phrased it, he's like, If you lose yourself. And then I thought, that's me. I saw the nice watch. It wasn't just I was buying a nice watch. I was visualizing my identity in the watch. And he's like, That's just your ego. That's just greed and fear. Ultimately, there'll be no positive outcome from it. And that's what I believe. Yeah, and Echo talks about this, because what... if that's the mindset then it is it's trying to scratch an itch that that's it's ultimately that stuff's never going to scratch so so what's the cause of the itch that's the only way to solve it what is the cause do you think why do you think I want to watch I don't know man I don't know i don't know don't know enough pay story fair enough could go Go Freudian, it's probably, probably something in the childhood. Who knows? It's probably there's there's always, it's always in the childhood. There's always something there. Yeah, I don't know. Plus, I'm not psychologist really, so. Fair, fair. I was just curious. I was just curious. Do you, did you always find it easy to be authentic?No, No only onlythe last couple of years, man. YouTube's actually helped me in that regard, but no. Man, like I told you, like if I, like if you're socially anxious, the idea of authenticity is like terrifying to you, right?So, a lot of the problem with people with social anxiety is they, it's because they they want to fit in, you know?that is derived from a from a story. You tell yourself that you're not enough, you know, funny enough, good looking enough. There's a problem with me. So fundamentally, there's a problem with me. So I have to change. I have to mold myself to be often become people pleasers, being a very good people pleaser and everything else. But yeah, I I had a big problem with that. But it's gotten a lot better and beingBeing more of an asshole so integrating the shadow. Umm Talks about that, Colm Young's stuff, that's that's been a big help as well. Incorporating the shadow is something that I find very interesting, but I'm not sure if I've identified my shadow yet, and I know it's there, but there's like shadow work you can do, and you have to like identify your shadow. like Do you know how to do that?My wife gave me a good tool. She said it was a good visualization exercise, because my wife's a clinical psychologist and she she actually kicked off this whole self-development process. She said, like, imagine you're in a room, you're in a room, it's a black room, nothing else. And it's you in there with your shadow. You in your shadow, nothing else. What does the shadow look like?How tall is it?What's his complexion? Is it Is it tall?Is it small?Is it strong? Is it skinny?Is it, you know, what's his voice like?How does it speak?How's his mannerisms?Try and picture it. So like the first things that come into your mind, the first images that you're going to get, that's essentially going to be your shadow. So that was one important thing in mind. Mine was like this, like Gollum type thing, like this little Gollum, you know, it was like unfair, skinny. Pathetic. How do you, so then you incorporate your shadow?Like, so you find out like this kind of like deep subconscious art, this kind of unconscious side to you that is kind of somewhat like malicious, or I don't know how you describe it, but. And then you incorporate that more so into your like conscious mind. And what is the desired outcome then?What I started with with Corporated Challenge, you know when I first started, because I was such a people pleaser, I found conflict very, very difficult. The first thing I started with was online, like Facebook. Everyone at the time, all of my friends were using Facebook, so writing like controversial statuses with Facebook. So I started going into like, I was like right of center, and this was at a time where it was not popular to go against sort of mainstream beliefs and like left-leaning politics, like pulling out feminism and all this like no one was doing it and I was starting online. That was like my first dipping my toes in the water of like, you know, conflict and being a bit of a dick and talking back to people. Now that's very easy to do online, right?But it was the first steps and then gradually I'll start doing this in conversations with people. you know, pulling out opinions and I'd initially do it in a social setting where I could have a few glasses of wine and then it became two glasses and then one glass and I could do it sober and gradually, gradually and then you start having these conversations with your boss one day and then with your co-workers and you do it in a respectful way. Again, my wife led me down the path of looking into ohh assertiveness. So basically, essentiallyyou know, how to set boundaries, how to be firm, but you know, in a respectful way. So you don't have to just be an absolute asshole and whatnot, but you know, all these steps gradually, gradually have helped. And I still struggle, still struggle, man. I still struggle. So it's, you know, conflict is is challenging for me, but man, wherever the fear is, wherever those uncomfortable feelings are, that's kind of where the goal lies, so you've got to go for it. What advice would you give to your 18 year old self? Stop putting so much attention on pointless pussy I wasted too much time, destroyed my rubbish tennis career, but I destroyed what career I had in tennis, wasted too much time, too much mental energy, too much money on pointless pussy Thanks, I love Ryan, I love the honesty and it was niche, it wasn't generic, some answers are generic, so I like that. Yeah, it's actionable. Yeah Yeah yeah, not so easy when you're an 18 year old, right?Not so easy, but I wish I fucking did it. Yeah. Yeah, it was a pleasure chatting with you today, Ryan. I enjoyed it, thank you. Yeah, I really learned a lot from talking to you and yeah, I wish you all the best with your channel and I'm very excited to see how far you go. I know I'll continue to watch you. I appreciate it, man. I've really enjoyed it. Let's do a round two further down the line. Yeah, I understand. And I wish you the best of luck as well. Hope it goes, buddy.