Connecting the Dots

Connecting the Dots...with a non boring accountant (Nathan Harvey)

• Adam Leishman • Season 1 • Episode 36

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Dive into the fascinating world of internet numbering with Nathan, a finance director at APNIC. Discover how they manage the essential IP addresses that connect devices across Asia-Pacific. Nathan's journey from auditing to managing internet resources shows just how exciting and crucial this field is. #APNIC #InternetNumbering #DigitalConnectivity

Speaker:

Week 36. Since I've been connecting with other people and asking them about what they do, or how they got there, or in this case, both. Because I'm fascinated by how he got there and what the company does that he now works for. I met him running. That's not what we talked about. That's not our common bond. I think our common bond is he's entertaining and interesting and I like Things that entertain me and interest me, which is

Speaker 2:

why I do a lot of this every week.

Speaker:

Anyhow, let's go meet well, he likes to call himself a non boring accountant.

Speaker 2:

You'll see what I

mean.

Speaker 3:

This is Nathan. Let's start with what you do. Cause I've heard you joke about it. What, what, what do you do?

Speaker 4:

I can tell you, but I'd have to kill you. No, not at all. So I am by trade an accountant, which sounds really boring. But I've never really followed a traditional accounting career path. So, my role at the moment is finance director for an organization called APNIC. APNIC stands for the Asia Pacific Network Information Center. And essentially APNIC are responsible for administering and managing the IP resourcing for the internet in Asia. So we have remit over 53 countries. Countries across the Asia Pacific region. And for every single device that you own, be it a mobile phone or a computer, that connects to the internet, it needs to have a unique number that allows it to communicate with every other device that's connected to the internet. So APNIC are the organisation that are responsible for administering and managing all of the IP addresses that connect to the internet.

Speaker 3:

So these are these what are they? I'm going to take a guess, 11, 11 digit numbers or something like that. Yep. Yep. And called an IP address. Correct. And you manage them, sell them? Think of, no, we don't sell them. Think of it as the phone book for the internet. So you, so you manage, manage the phone numbers for the internet?

Speaker 4:

Yep. So we, we don't, we don't sell them in order to acquire IP addresses, you need to have a, it's means tested, so you need to have a reason to do so. So, typical organisation that would require IP addresses is a, is an ISP, an Internet Service Provider. So think of, you know, your Telstruders, your Optuses, your Singtels, etc, etc. They will all come to APNIC and they are all indeed members of APNIC. Their their blocks of IP addresses are provided to them by APNIC. Now, you don't own IP addresses. No one can own IP addresses. They are provided to them as a part of a membership with the organisation. So we've got about 10, 000 members across the region. APNIC is one of five regional internet registries globally. So there's one for Asia Pacific, North America, Latin America, Europe, Middle East, and there's one for Africa. And are you all similar? We all operate independently, though, you know, obviously what we do is This is very comparable and we have a lot in common, but we all operate independently. We're, APNIC is a membership based organisation, so the members of APNIC, the 10, 000 members of APNIC. Vote on things like policy, they vote on the the, the board of directors and, and that sort of thing. So, it's, it's very bottom up approach too.

Speaker 3:

So they don't buy the numbers and you're managing them. Who gave them to you? Where did these numbers come from?

Speaker 4:

So there's an organisation called ICANN, ICANN back in the day were originally responsible for managing names, so domain names, and the numbers, the IP addresses. When the internet exploded it all got too big for one organisation to manage, so they were split into names and numbers. And then as time progressed they got split further and further down to the five internet registries that we have today that manage the numbers.

Speaker 3:

Right, so are we going to run out of numbers?

Speaker 4:

Theoretically, no. Right. So there are two series of numbers. There are what is called, the original series was called IPv4. There are about 4 billion IP addresses in the IPv4 range. At the dawn of the internet, it was expected that we would never need more than 4 billion internet numbers. Because, you know, that's a lot. That's a big number. So who would ever think that we would get to this point where there would be more than 4 billion devices. Connected to the internet. How wrong we were. And so as the allocation of IPv4 addresses approached exhaustion they created another series called IPv6. Now, I can't remember the number off the top of my head, but there are literally trillions of IPv6 addresses. I think I read something that there are enough IPv6 addresses in the world. For every grain of sand on the earth to have an IPv6 address. So, theoretically we will never run out of address space. However, we've been wrong before, so.

Speaker 3:

And are they in use now?

Speaker 4:

Yes. Right. Yes.

Speaker 3:

So that's a lot of technical information for the accountant at the company.

Speaker 4:

Yes, you really stretched me. You've reached the outer bounds of my, of my technical knowledge. How

Speaker 3:

did you end up doing this?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, right, so like I said, I didn't follow a traditional path. I started in firm world as a lot of young accountants, like young aspiring accountants do. I was an auditor for a mid tier firm here in Brisbane. And then I quickly jumped over to the corporate space. And I was the second member of, at the time, Flight Centres. Global internal audit team. And so myself and my boss at the time were responsible for auditing the global operations of Flight Centre. Which is a lot for two people to manage. We quickly sort of grew that team out. But it was during that time that I got to have the opportunity to visit many, many countries and places around the world where Flight Centre had operations. One stop that we made in late 2008 was India, and we conducted an audit there which didn't go so well. This is all on public record, so there's no issue, but we had a very bad divorce with a joint venture partner we had for a corporate travel management organization in India. Long story short, Flight Centre are buying out the joint venture partner and set up its FCM Travel Solutions brand as the corporate travel provider for its Indian operations. I was meant to be there for two weeks, I ended up staying there for three years. So, one of the things I was tasked with was finding a CFO for this new operation. And I, I failed dismally at that task and my punishment was I had to stay there as the CFO, which at the time I was about 26, 27 years old. Responsible for what was about a 250, 300 million turnover organization. And it was a calculated risk on my part. Obviously that progressed my career very, very quickly, much quicker than I would have, If I had have stayed here in Brisbane in corporate head office. So a bit of a calculated risk that I took to take that role on. But it was fascinating, you know, we, once we acquired the operation, it was like having two, you know, two siblings that didn't get along because they had Different policies, different finance systems, different this, different that, and culturally, they're very, very disperse. And so over the three years that I was there, I sort of was responsible for implementing Flight Centre policy, Flight Centre processes, and then integrating the finance systems, and culturally. And you were living there? Yeah, I was living there. Yeah, wow. And then the other thing was sort of culturally bridging that divide between Australia and the Indian operations. Very, very you know, Flight Centre culture is very work hard, party hard. Yeah. India is culturally very conservative, so we tried to bridge those two cultures together.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, wow. Where did you go to from there?

Speaker 4:

So, after three years in India my wife said, It's time to go home. You've had your fun. You've had your adventure. We're going back to Australia. She'd fallen pregnant with our first child at that point in time. She didn't really want to raise our children in India. And so we boarded a plane back to Australia. Stopped over in Singapore and I just happened to drop into the Singapore Flight Centre offices and there just happened to be a roll going there, so, we made it halfway home but we pulled up camp in Singapore for about 6 years and I was the, the regional Chief Financial Officer for Flight Centre's operations there. Right, so it wasn't just almost

Speaker 3:

made it home with the paws, it was, it was a substantial stop.

Speaker 4:

Yes, it was a substantial stop. So, that was kind of, it, it was a negotiated outcome whereby we were far closer to home and Singapore is a far more palatable country for a young family to live in than say, than say India. But it provided me, you know, I guess an extension to my adventure.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Okay. And where to from there?

Speaker 4:

So we, as I said, we stopped in Singapore for six years. My wife is also an accountant. She managed to. Get employment in Singapore quite easily we had two children in Singapore and then in 2016, she said, nah, it's time to go home. This time, it is absolutely time to go home. Want to raise our kids close to grandparents, aunties, uncles, and that sort of thing. So, we pulled up stumps in Singapore, but it was a, it was a long journey home. We, we decided to take six to 12 months off and just have a bit of a, a decompress. We've both been working pretty crazy jobs in Singapore. And so, we first stop was Bali where we intended to spend sort of four to six months just figuring out life. But pretty quickly we fell pregnant with our third child, which cut short our adventure. We managed to squeeze in a bit of a lap around the world before returning back to Australia in 2017. So my wife was heavily pregnant with our third child and we sort of said, well, it's a race to the flag. Whoever gets the role first goes back to work and the other one is the The spouse that remains at home. And luck or good management, my wife managed to get a role first, so for six months after getting home, I was the stay at home dad.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 4:

Our third child was in my care. And we I eventually went back into the workforce working for a council owned subsidiary responsible for the management and maintenance of Robertstreet Parklands and Southbank Parklands. It was a bit of a career back step, but we had three kids. We'd just relocated to Australia. I needed something that was going to enable me to balance all of that craziness at the same time. So I spent three or four years there, and then when I moved back to Australia, because I have this fascination with Asia, I always have, and I've always been very passionate about, you know, Australia's interests in Asia, and our proximity to Asia, and how important that is to our economy. To us as as people. And so I'd always wanted to be involved somehow in the Asian region. I remember going to, to see a an ex colleague of mine when I got back. And he said, what you need to be is a seagull. That you've returned to Australia, but you need to be able to fly back to Asia every now and then. And Flap around and create some ruckus and then come back home again and so I sort of that stayed with me for a while and it was in 2021 I think this opportunity to work for an organization called APNIC came along and I'd never heard of the organization I had an interview with him, I thought it went terribly and I'd never hear from him again. But I did and sort of the rest is history, I ended up with APNIC, which sort of fulfills that function of me being able to be connected with Asia in a really big way. Still very passionate about, you know, numbers and, and, and working for an organisation that's got a really great purpose. But living it here in Brisbane and doing it in this beautiful suburb of Sendgate.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so where's work for you now? Where's, where's the office? The office is,

Speaker 4:

is in South Brisbane. Yeah, okay. So I go in there about three times a week and the other two days I Have the luxury of working from home, as many people do post COVID. Yep. But yeah, it's uprooted.

Speaker 3:

And so you work for an organisation that's looking after some things, and you said 53 countries. Yep. How many offices does the organisation have? One. One South Brisbane, it's here in Brisbane. Absolutely. Looking after all of that.

Speaker 4:

Yes. We, it was made for you. Y Yeah. So we, we have obviously there's, there's quite a bit of staff travel involved to go and do community outreach, membership outreach in all of those economies in countries we do training for network operators and engineers and the like, so there's, we've got a, a team of trainers who are on the road most of the year.

Speaker 3:

Yep.

Speaker 4:

But the, the. The head office for APNIC is here in Brisbane.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, awesome.

Speaker 4:

Crazy, huh?

Speaker 3:

That's, but it's awesome though, at the same time. The bit I'm, I'm jealous that you work in a tech, you know, that, that tech internet style. Business. That's pretty cool. You get to work from home, but I'm really jealous about where you live. You've recently moved. Tell me about that.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so my wife and I have always wanted to live on the waterfront. And that's just been a dream of ours. There's just something about waking up and looking at the water every morning. And so, a few months ago we managed to realize our dream and buy a beautiful house. It's here on the, on the Sandgate waterfront. So, that sort of bleeds into my other passion, which is where we met, which is running. And that means I can sort of step out my front door every morning and be right there on the waterfront ready for my, my sort of canter around the,

Speaker 3:

around the pier and whatnot. I noticed there's four types of runners that come to our morning groups. There's the ones that live along the waterfront. They have no excuse. There's the ones that live in the Sandgate Brighton community. And so they don't have to travel far. They run there themselves. And then there's the third group which come from around the regions to come and run on the waterfront because the water, it's all about the waterfront, it's lovely. And then there's me, I drive from Caboolture to run along the waterfront here. But it's, that's why I'm jealous you are, you are living right there at this thing I spend 30 minutes every morning driving to.

Speaker 4:

Zero excuses.

Speaker 3:

That's brilliant. What's you've had an interesting career. And, and as clearly not the trajectory of a normal accountant. What's next?

Speaker 4:

I've always been fairly career driven, but I'm at a point in my career now where I'm, I'm happy. I've ticked off a lot of goals. So, as I said, I've got three kids. They keep me very, very busy. They've all got diverse interests of their own. So that's, that's a fairly big. How old are they now? My eldest my daughter is 12 years old and then I've got two boys who are nine and seven and like I said, they've got diverse interests. So that's, that's my weekend gone essentially, except for my, my weekend run. But, but sport and running as part of that is my other real passion just talking before we started here that I sort of had a hiatus from running during pretty much the COVID period. I've just come back to it this year and I found that really, really hard. Yep. And I want to keep working at that because I want to get back to where I was five years ago. I still sort of think my body's capable and, you know. And that sort of thing. So, I'm pouring a lot of focus and energy into trying to get my running back on track.

Speaker 3:

And you mentioned your half marathon time of 1. 33. I mean, that's, that's moving.

Speaker 4:

Yeah it is. And as I said, I couldn't even do a 5k at that pace. What's your,

Speaker 3:

Favorite distance?

Speaker 4:

It would either be the half or the full. I just, I love, I love the mental endurance. I love the, the thought of being stuck in a pain cave and sort of white knuckling your way through it. And there's a lot of, for me, there's a lot of crossover between what happens on the running track and what happens in the, in the boardroom, you know, just being able to problem solve your way out of something whether that's, you know, Oh my God, my leg hurts and I don't know if I can get through these next 10 kilometers or we've got this massive problem at work that we need to solve. I love the idea of kind of problem solving my way through, through life. So love the marathon, love the half. I've never been a super quick runner. But I remember when I started running here on the waterfront back in 2017, I was at the front of the pack. And over the years I've just graduated my way to the back of the pack. I would love to be able to migrate towards the front of the pack again. Though I think with the, the, the absolute freakish runners that we have in this community, I will never be at the front of the pack, but I'd like to work my way towards, say, let's

Speaker 3:

We're certainly growing in numbers down here in the club. A hundred percent. And you did some crossfit? I met you the first day when I joined the club and I rocked up. I met you the first day. And cause you've got a a quirky humor about you. And you're like, Oh, you, you figured out I'd run a lot. And you said, Oh, do you, do you roll? And I'm like, Oh, and I didn't know how to answer it. It was like. Like, do you stretch and roll? And I'm like, no. And you're like, I don't worry, we're all runners. We don't either. And I'm like, oh, right, okay. You've certainly got a comedy about you that's interesting. Where'd that come from, do you think?

Speaker 4:

I think it came from my father. Growing up, he was very much into British humour. I remember religiously every Christmas, and we're just about there, aren't we? Sitting down and watching Monty Python, you know, the life of Brian and sort of things like that. Or Chevy Chase and the National Lampoons, that sort of thing. So I think my humour kind of migrated from my father to me. We still talk about it. Sort of on text and what not, have these quite wry, you know, humour from time to time, so I think that's where it came from.

Speaker 3:

It's never a dull, when there's a long run on and we've had the pleasure of running together, it's never dull with you, that's for sure.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I think, you know, life is so serious that you've got to take a step back and see the lighter side from time to time, so. I think working in the role I do and that sort of thing, once I, you know, Sort of clock off on a, on a Friday that you never really clock off these days. It's, it's nice just to sort of step back and, and be able to laugh at yourself and laugh at life in general because if without laughter, what do we have really? That's

Speaker 3:

it. What has wife got an accountant role now?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, Amber she's, she's working for a a mining company at the moment and she loves her role. It's sort of, has grown over the last 12 months or so and she's now traveling quite a bit as well. So that keeps us pretty busy between the two of us trying to balance schedules and manage the kids and what not. But she's, she's a far better accountant than I am, I would say. She's more of a debits credits accountant and I'm more of a I don't know. how you'd describe me, but I'd say she's a better accountant than I am.

Speaker 3:

Awesome. Thank you very much for your time today.

Speaker 4:

Thanks, Adam.

Speaker 3:

Cheers,

Speaker 4:

mate. Cheers.

Speaker 3:

you Used to do some CrossFit?

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. You enjoy that?

Speaker 4:

I enjoy it. I was never very good at it, but I, again, I enjoy the mental side of being stuck in that pain cave and trying to push your way through it. The workouts are a lot shorter than sort of a two, three hour long run, but for 20 minutes or half an hour, you're sort of, you're going at it. And, and that. That's, that's that's pretty tough to work through.

Speaker 3:

So if you're not a normal accountant, is that why I can't see the normal accountant white Camry parked here somewhere?

Speaker 4:

No, I've got three kids, so I drive a Santa Fe, it's a people mover. The other accountant car? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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