Connecting the Dots

Connecting the Dots...with my Cookie Dealer (William A. Forsythe)

• Adam Leishman • Season 1 • Episode 47

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What happens when a dancer-turned-choreographer falls in love, bakes cookies, and still writes cruise ship shows? You get William – co-founder of William & Chai, entertainer, and storyteller.

In this vibrant episode of Connecting the Dots, Adam chats with William about:

  • His early years in Brisbane
  • Working with Kylie Minogue & Cliff Richard
  • Building a dance college
  • Falling in love in Thailand
  • Starting one of Redcliffe’s most beloved cookie businesses

It’s joy, colour, love, and cookies.

🎧 Tune in now and connect the dots.
 #ConnectingTheDots #CookiesAndChoreography #WilliamAndChai #PodcastLife #EntrepreneurStory #PerformersJourney #LGBTQBusiness

Love cookies. I love cookies. As much as I, no, not, no. I like cookies more than most other things in the world. And well, I've got a cookie dealer and, well, I've got two of them. They come as a pigeon pair and and I've been, you know, getting my source of cookies from these guys for quite some time now. And during that time I've got to know both of them. And I could just tell there was a little bit of a story to. Ask more about from one of them, and I did. That's what I've done this week for number 47 of me connecting the dots with people I do or don't know or get my cookies from. We're gonna find out about a lot more than just cookies from this guy. So come get my cookie dealer.

Speaker:

This is William. I'm gonna start with your name because I noticed that it's a, when you Google your name, there's a few William Forsythe that come up.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely. Funny story. There's two, and we are both choreographers, so I had to add an a, my middle name into it because one time my old production company was supporting the dance awards in Australia and we were the presenter. And they actually thought I was getting the award, but it was the other guy. Right? So after that night, I went home and I went, oh, your middle name's Alexander. Add an A. So if people Google or do William a Forsyth, but yeah, the other guy, I think we both got Irish backgrounds and with the similar coloring. We're about a decade apart in age, but yeah, we get confused many times. When I worked on, the TV show Idol like years and years ago, I did an interview for TV Week and the girl was doing the interview and she turned the what do you call it? Tape recorder off. And that's how long ago it was. She turned the tape recorder off and she said, oh, I just wanna say I saw the ballet you did last week for the Australian Ballet. I really loved it. And I, I, in my smart ass, funny, what I thought was funny, I said to her, oh, babe, that's the other one. You probably need to do more. Research for this interview.'cause I'm not that guy. She did laugh. She did get my sense of humor. But yeah, often mistaken for him.

Speaker:

Now every Sunday I come to Redcliffe markets. Mm-hmm. And I buy the best cookies around from William and Chai. You are the William Chai is your husband. How is it that you've come to be in cookies?

Speaker 3:

Well, when Hai and I got married and he moved to Australia, after about a year, I asked him, what, what's something you want to do? I've always had my own businesses. What's something you would like to do? And I was thinking it would be a little hole in the wall cafe, like a coffee. And he actually said, I would love to bake. And the funny story there is I was thinking. I've never seen you bake. I, I know you're a great cook, an incredible cook at Thai food. And I said, have you ever baked? And he said, no, but I would really like to. And I said, do you know how to turn the oven on? And he said, no, I don't. And I said That I know how to do. I turned it on. He started cooking using other people's recipes, and about four months into it, he just kept going and going and going, and then created all his own dough. And then at that mark, I said, let's try one weekend at the market's in Sydney. And we tried them and we sold out. And so then we did them for six weeks. And then I thought, is this what you want to do as a business? So I said, let's set it up. And we, we did it more like a business. And because he's a great husband, I said to call it CHAI's cookies, but he was like, no, you've supported me. Let's call it William and Chai.

Speaker:

There you go. So that's

Speaker 3:

how we got to it. So how long have you been at the Redcliffe markets? Redcliffe markets are one year this month. There you go. So we did six years in Glebe markets in Sydney, and then we moved back home to Queensland and Brisbane and we've been You Redcliffe for one year. Exactly. There you go.

Speaker:

So over that year of me coming and buying. Your wonderful cookies

Speaker 3:

every week without doubt. Before or after a jog.

Speaker:

Yeah, that's right. I've, I've burnt, I've earned the calories, that's for sure. And then I put them all back on. And then some I've, I've picked up in our little conversations just getting to know you, that there's a rich history not connected to cookies with your, you know, your career. And you've touched on that. So tell me a bit about. Who William is.

Speaker 3:

Alright, so I, I was a dancer originally. I trained here in Queensland at the QUT in Brisbane. And then I moved to Sydney in the eighties and was a dancer in musicals, video clips, TV shows. I did that for about 10 years and then I. I did I sort of fell into choreography quite quickly and a lot of people liked me and trusted me, so that took off very quick and I choreographed up until I was 55. So for decades. Yep. Went, traveled the world, London, la, Dubai, Hong Kong, a lot of work here in Australia. And, yeah, did that and also opened a school. So I, I, I'm a part owner of a private college in Sydney, which I'm still owner of. So yeah, entertainment industry has been my whole thing. Yeah, that's why probably at the cookies, we are dressed a little bit over the top, like in matching, I call them costumes. Chai reminds me it's a uniform. Mm-hmm. So yeah. Red shoes. Yeah, red shoes. Boot boots, boot red boots. Red is the color of the brand. So yeah. But entertainment has been my thing for, I'm 64, so 43 years I've been in the entertainment industry. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Speaker:

What have been some of the favorite things you've worked on?

Speaker 3:

It? It's weird. One of the most. Most favorite and most challenging thing way outta my comfort zone was I choreographed a musical for Theater of the Deaf, which was the first in the world, and that was like a two year project. Mm-hmm. So we would come together every three months and work on it until we got to the final rehearsal period. That changed my life and style as a choreographer. I've done some really big jobs. I did concerts for Kylie Minogue. I did a lot of work in England for a very famous legend, a Sir Cliffe Richard. I did like 20 years for him. Every two years I'd go to London and do his world tours, and yeah, I've done lots of big concerts. I do. My theory is every job is a great job, and I used to have this joke with everyone. I worked for$50,$500, 5,000 or 50,000 for the one week. So I take every job. It wouldn't matter what job I was doing. I just love to choreograph and I love entertainment. So whatever anyone had I took, sometimes some of the smallest jobs have been the life changing jobs.

Speaker:

Yeah. Wow. Mm-hmm. And I think it was maybe talking about some of my trips on cruise boats that you mentioned. You've Written some stuff. Well, what is it? You call, you do,

Speaker 3:

well create written, yeah. Design originally. My first company that I owned for 15 years are still the producers for Pinot Cruisers and Princess Cruisers with here in Australia. So we did about eight shift. I still work for them now. I still consult and help write and create the shows. Probably create is the word. There's like three or four of us are created together. Yep. And then I will direct and choreograph it and put it up. So that company I started when I was 30. I sold it when I was. 45 to my business partner. So him and I were together the whole time working on that. And then he took over and now I still work for him now when they want a new show every four or five years, I'll go in and create that. So I just created, maybe just after Covid was the last big show I did for ship Out of Sydney and outta Sydney and Brisbane. Quantum The, no, the encounter and the encounter in the adventure princess encounter in adventure. I'm not good with the names of the ships'cause I've done so many ships

Speaker:

them. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Wow. So I, I, I will say as a young choreographer, I started on the ships at 30 A, actually 30. And as I said, I'm 64, so I've been doing them for 34 years. So, wow. It's amazing. I, I love ships and I love shows on ships and. Yeah.

Speaker:

What, what brought you back to Queensland?

Speaker 3:

We, because I owned my own business and after Covid I realized part of my business I could do from home. Mm-hmm. Like everyone in the world worked that out. My, I moved back from my family. My mother is 94 and still still lives in our family home. Mm-hmm. So, Chai and I decided because I could do half of my week from home, we. Come back and look after my mom, so, yes. Yes. At in Bri 64, I live with my mom in

Speaker:

Brisbane.

Speaker 3:

Here? Yeah, in Brisbane, in Bulimba Oh, lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. She's a great lady. She's as strong as a Knox, an Irish immigrant. She, as I said, is in the family home, runs up and down the back stairs, the Queenslander. Scares the shit outta me, but does everything.

Speaker:

What did mom and dad do back in the day?

Speaker 3:

My dad was a bus driver for in Brisbane, and my mom my mom had a million jobs. Okay. So yeah, both, both. They moved here as young immigrants. My mom moved when she was 18 and my dad when he was 22. So both from Ireland both working class moved here and, yeah.

Speaker:

And you went off and did creative arts.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Can I say, I'm gonna talk a bit more about my parents, my parents immigrants and working class, so bus drivers. My mum worked in Coles for a while, then worked for YWCA in a, in a great position. They trained my sister and I both to be very successful in, in a great way, but always work hard and. You need to work hard to get what you want. Yep. And I, I do remember I had started my accounting degree after high school, which is what I was going to do. And I did dux accounting and economics at school. And I took up dancing one night a week. I was working in Myers in the accounting section and about to start my degree. I had a gap year, about to start my degree the next year, and I took up dancing one night a week. Yeah, just'cause I was bored and off it went off. It went very quickly and as I said, I trained two years at, I did a few, I did a year of classes while I was working in the accounting firm. And then I got into, back in that day in the 80 80. One, they were desperate for boys. So I auditioned, I was hopeless, but QUT took me probably'cause they needed some boys to lift the girls. So I trained for two years at QUT and then I moved to Sydney and my first job was in a musical West Side story. So Right. It all happened very quickly for me. Yep. And then just to cap that off, I worked for 10 years as a dancer in Sydney and Melbourne. And then around. 30 I started choreographing and then I started a production company. Brisbane would've changed a bit in the time you were gone. Yes. Can I say, and I do love Brisbane for those people I. That are listening. But when I used to come back in my twenties and thirties, I think being a gay man, I still found it quite scary. But now once I started to come back in my fifties, I think Brisbane, well, the world has changed with diversity and acceptance anyway, but Brisbane had changed and I, I particularly think in the last 10 years, I think Brisbane is an amazingly beautiful city.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 3:

And even before the. Thought of moving up to look after my mum. My intention was always in the last 10 years when I retire, I will move back to Queensland. I love Brisbane that much. Yep. And just seeing it around. And I still, all my friends are from grade one. My best friends that I hang out with here. Yep. So then they started to show me different sides of Brisbane the last 10 or 15 years. And then I was like. I'm gonna move back to Queensland in retirement. It just came a little bit earlier than I thought for my mom. Mm-hmm. And so here. But yes, Brisbane has changed. Just great. Always a beautiful looking city. But I think more to do, I mean, because of Chai, we are both foodies. We love to eat. Yep. And I love to eat a$5 meal, not a$500 meal. Who would want to eat that? But I, I don't mind spending. Every now and again on a good meal. So I love eating and I think Brisbane great food. Great coffee. Yeah, I think it's fantastic.

Speaker:

Have you got a favorite go to your restaurant in Brisbane?

Speaker 3:

I do have a fa. Oh, I've got a few. Favorite restaurant Chai and I both love seafood. I, I'm a pescatarian, so seafood is my thing. We really love Reef even though it's a cafe restaurant, reef. In the gas works at Newstead. Mm-hmm. And we love Italian food. Okay. Chi Chai is very Thai food. Mm-hmm. Because HAIs are very. Proud of their country and it's very tasty food of course. But he does like Italian, so we like a little restaurant in Howard Smith wharf called Ciao Papi. Ciao Papi. Mm-hmm Ciao Papi. We like there as well.

Speaker:

Yeah. Awesome. But,

Speaker 3:

but Reef would be our go-to Sunday night after the weekend of the markets. Yep. Redcliffe, we finish at the markets, we go buy all the ingredients for the next week and we pretty much always head to Reef for great seafood. Yeah. Awesome.

Speaker:

What does your sister, what did your sister end up doing?

Speaker 3:

My sister's retired now. Mm-hmm. She started in medicine and then she was a speech speech therapist back in the day. I think you call it speech pathologist these days. Mm-hmm. But her main job that she did for decades was an audiologist.

Speaker:

Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So in those, like most people, in those first five or eight years of her, she changed business, but all health related. Mm-hmm. But yeah, loved audiology and did that for about 40 years.

Speaker:

And how long has chai been over in Australia for,

Speaker 3:

Since. 2019. Okay, so six years. Yep. Something like that. We got married in Thailand. Mm-hmm. A few years before that. And then when he came here, we got married once, it was already legal here from 2018, so we got married here as well.

Speaker:

Yeah. Awesome. How did you meet him?

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's a very long story, but I, I will do it. It sounds crazy like a movie, and I will shorten it and just get to the gist of it. I was in Thailand, as I said. I buy my college. I always buy all up my costumes in Thailand. So I've been going back and forth for about 10 years. I speak a very little bit of Thai and I was on the street and I lent across him to press the buzzer for the walk button. And I said, inti, excuse me. And we just started chatting. We crossed the street, and I thought, oh, there's something about this guy I like, and I, I've actually never done this in my life. And I asked him, did he wanna go for a coffee? And he said, no. Then I said, a drink. I kept talking to him and then I said, A drink? And he said, no. And then I thought, maybe he didn't understand my English. I'll sign coffee. And I signed coffee. He said, no again. And then I thought, walk away from this guy. He said, no to you. Three times in 10 minutes, I walked away. Over the next two days, I thought that guy works around this area. I'll keep my eye out for him. On the Sunday night, that was the Friday night. On the Sunday night, I walked past a restaurant that he was working in and I saw him. So I hung outside till I caught his eye and he came out. And we talked and his friends were laughing and I said, what are your friends laughing at? And he said, they just asked me, are you the guy that I met Friday night that I've been looking for for the last two days? So then I asked him out and we went out and we've been together ever since. It sounds stupid and like a bad romantic movie, but that's the truth of the conversation. So we met three days later, we re-met, but we both tried to. Look for each other over those three days casually just out, out and about and yeah, been together ever since. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Speaker:

If you could do one more job, one more big production, what type of job would it be?

Speaker 3:

I always, mm-hmm. My goal, it, it had changed. And I'm just gonna talk about this anyway and say, see, it's funny how you, my goal was always to do a major musical. I have done musicals, I've done some in New Zealand. I did some smaller ones here. So my goal was always to do, you know, a big musical, like, I don't know, 42nd Street, west Side Street, choreograph, something like that. But I don't have that goal anymore. If I had. I probably at this age don't have a dream of, because I'm gonna sound like a wanker, but I did more than I dreamt of, and I hit my goals higher than I ever dreamt. Wow. So, and that's why 10 years ago I stepped away from choreography be, and not, I was bored, but I'd just done everything and I just loved it so much. I felt. I'm done with that. Yep. In a positive way. And one of my friends was like, don't, that's who you are. And I go, but I'm really beyond satisfied and I don't want to keep doing it. And as I said, I've got a college and I was already very involved in the college for the last 15 years of that, so I just took that on more. But getting back to your question, believe it or not, if I was to do something again. It would probably, I know people would think, I'll say one of the pop stars I've worked for in the past and one of their bigger concerts. But no, I would probably do a cruise ship because I have more control over it. And I'm like, as I said, three or four of us put together. We're very respectful to each other, but in the end, I get to direct it and choreograph, and I have a lot of input on what material goes in there. So I know I like the material. So if I was to do another one. Not that I want to, but if I dreamt of doing another job, it would be another cruise ship and maybe bigger, where the stage is bigger. A much bigger cast or, or actually, alright. If I was to do something that I hadn't done that I dreamed of doing. But in the vein of what I love, which is cruise ships, I'm gonna say like a big. And not these two, but something like it. A big casino show like the Moulin Rouge or the Lido back in the day, and I'm not saying in Europe, but that sort of, I've never done that sort of show, but cruise ships can go that sort of genre. But to do 60 dances and elephants coming through the floor, I'd be really up for something like that and it would blow my mind to push myself that far.

Speaker:

Yeah. Awesome.

Speaker 3:

That was good how I got there. That No, that's actually the truth. I was like, oh yeah, you've done that. You repeat that. No, I, that is within me, that's within my realm of what I actually do. Yeah, it would be great.

Speaker:

Awesome. Markets, Redcliffe and West End

Speaker 3:

and Cathedral. So Cathedral try does three markets. Yes. I, I try and be there every day with him because that's the bit where I help out. And it's our, our baby and we like to hang out there together. So we do cathedral in the city and then Western on a Saturday. Mm-hmm. And Redcliffe on a Sunday where we always see you

Speaker:

and then sometimes you're not there because you're off holidaying. What's your favorite holiday destination?

Speaker 3:

We're actually not off holidaying too often. We, I, I, I think it's only been the once. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and even then, we were in Thailand buying costumes for my school and we went to Thailand and we see CHAI's parents and family as well. My, my favorite destination this is gonna sound corny. Yeah, I haven't taken Chai here, but I love the Sunshine Coast area. Noosa Newville, Noosa Junction. I love up there and it's a dream of Chai and I, when we have a holiday in the next two or three years to spend a week or two up there.

Speaker:

Yeah. Awesome.

Speaker 3:

I love up that way and I, poor chai. I tell him all the time how good it is, and he's like, when do we go? And I like, I don't know, but, and we, I did have a great holiday Hai and I did have a great holiday this year. We did have a holiday. Mm-hmm. I was stayed corrected. I was, I was.

Speaker:

I was about to pull you up on it and go, where about he is wrong?

Speaker 3:

No, I was like, yeah, we went to Uluru for a week and that was our big holiday. Yes, absolutely. I've forgotten that. It was great. A must do place. Yeah. Fantastic. Thank you very much. I was gonna say Hai loved all Ru. He actually wanted to move there and I said I didn't think it was possible. Brisbane was a big move for us. Really loved it. Such a magical place. Like everyone tells you, oh, it's spiritual, but you arrive and it is what's something like you've never seen before.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Amazing.

Speaker:

Thank you very much for chatting with me today. Pleasure. Absolute.

Speaker 3:

I think that's the biggest thing, like for, and it's probably Chai and my personal connection, my business is to entertain people and it's always about your audience leaving happy. Not about what you've done on stage ever. Which people don't know that that's actually, if you are really good at what you do, I create. To move an audience and they leave feeling great about themselves or thinking about something. And Chai, I watch him, the, the cooking is he wants people to love the food. Yeah. And I watch him like yourself when you come back. It makes his day. I,

Speaker:

I watch his face light up when you talk about the last week's cookie you got, or you know, one, you, when you've tried one of the different ones we haven't tried before, and you can just see on his face. Yeah. A, a a a. You know, a proud moment for him.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. It, it's, it's his passion. Mm-hmm. Like dancing was my passion. Yeah. And I suppose when you asked me earlier how I have always had my own business, I have always been one of the lucky people. I do what I love every day for my living. And I wanted that for hai. That's why I was like, let's decide what you want to do and let's work towards that.

Speaker:

Yeah. Awesome. Fantastic. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. Thank

Speaker 3:

you. You know, I say I, I'm hopeless at technology and people like, but you do so much. And I go, I hire people to do everything for me in, in Sydney. I go, I don't do anything. I turn up, I do what I'm good at, and I put great people around me to do everything I can't do. There you go. This is the way to do it,

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