Sun, Moon, and Talia

In this gripping episode of Tales of Bedlam, hosts Micah and Andrea dive into Sun, Moon, and Talia, a haunting 17th-century Italian version of Sleeping Beauty by Giambattista Basile. With dark themes including non-consensual acts, cannibalism, and revenge, this early fairy tale is far removed from the Disney classic. Listen as Micah and Andrea react in real-time to the shocking twists, unsettling humor, and complex morality embedded in this rarely told story.

As part of our Sleeping Beauty Origins series, this episode highlights how fairy tales were once cautionary and brutal—offering fascinating insights into historical storytelling. Trigger warnings are in place, but if you're intrigued by the darker roots of childhood stories, this episode is a must-hear.

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Transcript

Micah 0:02

Welcome to Tales of Bedlam. I'm your host, micah, and with me today my lovely wife, who will be taking over for Dustin this season two of Tales of Bedlam.

Andrea 0:13

Hi, I'm Andrea.

Micah 0:17

Today's story, if you listened to the previous episode on a history of Sleeping Beauty, our first story for the A5.

Micah 0:26

A five minute history of Sleeping Beauty. This is the first story of the three that we were going to do from the history, or different versions of Sleeping Beauty through the last six centuries, centuries. Our tale today comes from 1636 in Italy, by the author Giambattista Basil, and it's called Sun, moon and Talia. We do have to give a trigger warning here, because some of these stories involve unconsensual sex and cannibalism. Did I say, I'm sorry, involved non-consensual sex and cannibalism. Let me correct that. What did I say?

Andrea 1:14

I don't even know.

Micah 1:16

Non-consensual sex. We have flung far afield here, okay.

Andrea 1:24

Alright, so Okay, all right.

Micah 1:26

So Andrea, who hasn't spoken much yet, gets to start us off with Sun Moon and Talia.

Andrea 1:35

There once lived a great lord who was blessed with the birth of a daughter whom he named Talia. Of a daughter whom he named Talia. Eager to learn of her destiny, he summoned the wisest men and astrologers in his realm. After much deliberation and the casting of her horoscope, they determined that Talia would one day face grave peril from a splinter of flax. To protect her, the Lord decreed that no flax, hemp or similar materials would be allowed in his household, hoping to shield her from his foretold danger.

Micah 2:14

Very similar to the Sleeping Beauty that we know today with the spindle. That's right With the flax yeah, same, but different Right. One day, as Talia had blossomed into a young and beautiful woman, she was gazing out of a window when she noticed an old woman passing by spinning thread.

Andrea 2:36

That's talent.

Micah 2:38

With spinning and walking. Yeah, it's kind of like rubbing your belly and patting your head, exactly. It's kind of like rubbing your belly and patting your head Exactly. Having never seen a spindle before, talia was intrigued by the spinning spindle and, driven by curiosity, called the old woman over.

Micah 2:56

Hello, can I touch your sharp thing?

Andrea 2:58

Meow, Eager to understand this new object. Talia took the spindle and began to stretch the flax. Tragically, a splinter of flax lodged itself under her nail, causing her to collapse lifeless to the ground.

Micah 3:18

It's like the splinters under the nails in the movies.

Andrea 3:21

Isn't that painful the torture.

Micah 3:23

Yeah, they kidnap some spy who's the good guy trying to save the world? And they try to put slivers of wood underneath their fingernails.

Andrea 3:32

I can't ever watch that. So the old woman, terrified by what had happened, fled in panic and hasn't stopped running since.

Micah 3:46

She may still be running Like forced. That's right. Maybe they'll meet up.

Andrea 3:51

Well, it would be pretty scary Thinking. A woman just died, you know, from something you gave her.

Micah 3:57

Yeah, but I wouldn't just run in any particular direction forever because of it.

Andrea 4:03

Yeah, that would be a stretch and run. You stretch before you run. No hold on, I'm in full panic here, but give me a second to stretch. No, you know, instead of a hit and run, she stretched the flax. I was like a stretch. Sorry, dumb humor she's stretching the flax.

Micah 4:27

Yes, it was a stretch and run.

Andrea 4:29

So she ran because the woman died. Oh my God, go ahead.

Micah 4:33

It's a stretch by yeah, I gotcha. When the grief stricken father learned of the tragic event, his heart broke and he wept enough tears to fill a cask. After paying this sorrowful price, he had Talia's lifeless body taken to one of his country estates where she was placed on a velvet throne beneath a canopy so that's different Not on a bed. Overcome with grief and desperate to escape the memory of his immense loss, he locked the doors and abandoned the mansion, never to return to the palace that had brought him such unbearable sorrow.

Andrea 5:20

Sometime later, it so happened that a king was out hunting and passed by the estate, one of his falcons slipped from his grasp and flew through an open window into the house. When the bird didn't return his call, the king sent a servant to knock at the door, assuming the palace was inhabited. So, despite knocking for a considerable time, no one answered. Determined to retrieve his falcon, the king ordered a ladder and climbed up to explore the house.

Micah 5:55

So one of his entourage just happened to have a ladder.

Andrea 5:59

Well, you know he ordered it, so I guess he could have had it made. Go get it, or yeah.

Micah 6:06

Or maybe they made themselves into a ladder, like a human ladder.

Andrea 6:10

Yeah, yeah, that's possible?

Micah 6:13

Yeah, he searched every room, nook and corner, astonished to find no signs of life. Finally, he reached the reception hall where Talia appeared, enchanted, Mistaking her unconscious state for sleep. The king called out to her, but she did not wake. Captivated by her beauty, his desire overwhelmed him and he lifted her in his arms, carrying her to a bed where he took advantage of her. Oh my god.

Andrea 6:46

This is where he gets bad Dirtbag.

Micah 6:47

Yeah.

Andrea 7:01

Well, after nine months, talia gave birth to two beautiful children, a boy and a girl, each as precious as rare jewels. Two fairies who visited the palace, cared for them and placed the infants at their mother's breast. On one occasion, however, the babies couldn't find the nipple and began to suck on talia's fingers instead. They sucked so persistently that the splinter of flax was dislodged. Talia woke, as if from a deep slumber, and, upon seeing the two priceless gems beside her, she embraced, offering them her breasts.

Micah 7:44

Well, there's a lot of anatomy in that paragraph. Wow, yeah, but that's pretty good.

Andrea 7:53

It just took getting that out of her finger and she awoke.

Micah 7:56

Too bad, somebody hadn't thought of that sooner.

Andrea 8:00

I know when did these fairies come from.

Micah 8:03

I don't know. It doesn't say, they just appeared. I mean, two fairies visited the palace, cared for her. What, what, what, what, go ahead, oh. The children became dearer to her than life itself. Alone. In the palace with her two children, talia was bewildered, unsure of what had transpired.

Andrea 8:27

Yeah, that would be pretty scary.

Micah 8:29

Wake up who knows how long later and have two children. Yet she noticed that the table was always set with food and drink brought to her, though she saw no attendance, which has to be the fairies still right, I'd assume.

Micah 8:46

Meanwhile, the king began to think of Talia again, Pretending he was going hunting. He returned to the palace and found her awake with two beautiful children by her side. Uh-oh, Overjoyed, he revealed to Talia who he was recounting, how he had discovered her and all that had transpired. Upon hearing this, their bond grew even more robust and the king stayed with her for several days.

Andrea 9:16

Before leaving, he promised to return soon.

Micah 9:19

We're not going to talk about that.

Andrea 9:21

No, you did a good job.

Micah 9:24

What I did a good job. No, I mean, she just is going to accept that.

Micah 9:32

I mean Okay, I don't know what you say.

Micah 9:37

I guess she needed a baby daddy and hey, hey, he's a king, there's some security there. But never mind what he did.

Andrea 9:46

I know, I felt like we had talked about this. But, yeah, I guess you know she is alone, she has two kids, and back then do anything for your king and or your kids. I mean, it was more to be like kings ruled they, you know whatever they told you that went. I don't know.

Micah 10:11

Not that it's right, I don't think she was so much thinking about what he thought. I think she was maybe just thinking of how she was going to take care of those kids.

Andrea 10:21

Yeah, exactly.

Micah 10:23

It would be frightening. Yeah, and at least she doesn't remember that happening. Mm-hmm Right, mm-hmm Shoot Okay shoot.

Andrea 10:39

Okay. So before leaving he promised to return soon and return her and the children to his kingdom. However, once he returned to his realm, he found no peace, constantly uttering the names of talia and the children whom he called sun and Moon. Even in his sleep he found himself calling out to them.

Micah 10:57

The king's wife grew suspicious. This dirtbag just gets worse. Anyway, she grew suspicious due to the increasing length of his hunting trips and how he constantly spoke of Talia, sun and Moon. Consumed by a fiery jealousy, he summoned the royal secretary and said Listen closely, my son.

Micah 11:23

You are caught between a rock and a hard place, between danger and destruction. If you tell me who my husband, the king, is in love with, I will reward you with untold riches, but if you withhold the truth, you will vanish without a trace, dead or alive.

Micah 11:47

Terrified. The man felt his fear and greed overpowered any sense of honor or justice. He confessed everything to the queen, speaking plainly and leaving nothing out. I don't think he's losing really any honor in telling the queen what her evil husband's been doing behind her back been doing behind her back.

Andrea 12:19

So, upon learning the truth, the queen sent the secretary to talia, pretending to speak on behalf of the king, and requested that she send the children, as the king wished to see them. Overjoyed, talia complied without hesitation. However, the queen, whose heart is cruel, ordered the cook to kill the children and prepare them into a series of delicious dishes for her unsuspecting husband.

Micah 12:45

The cook, moved by the sight of the innocent children, couldn't carry out the queen's wicked plan. Instead, he took the children home to his wife and hid them. He prepared two lambs in their place, transforming them into a hundred different dishes. When the king arrived, the queen took great pleasure in having the meal served to him hundred dishes, that's a lot. And not only is he a great chef, he's saved the children.

Andrea 13:18

Yeah.

Micah 13:19

So he's like the hero.

Andrea 13:21

He's not a bad guy.

Micah 13:23

I didn't say he was.

Andrea 13:25

Right, I'm agreeing. Well, the king savored the meal, exclaiming by the soul of my ancestors.

Andrea 13:36

This is excellent.

Micah 13:39

Each time, the queen responded with Eat, oh eat, for you are eating of your own. Ha, ha, ha ha.

Andrea 13:52

At first the king paid little attention to her repeated phrase, but after hearing it several times he finally snapped.

Andrea 14:02

Of course I'm eating my own, since you've brought nothing into this house.

Andrea 14:10

Angered. He stood up and left. Angered, he stood up and left, heading to a villa some distance away To calm his temper and find peace.

Micah 14:20

He does need to find some peace.

Andrea 14:22

Well, she's screaming at him and telling him he's what? Eating his own. Isn't that what he said? If it were true, yeah, if it were true, it would be a terrible thing. But he doesn't know that at this point, what the? Heck, stop yelling at me.

Micah 14:41

I mean, he doesn't know that they're dead, either Right or anything, because he just thinks that she's being pushy today, meanwhile, the queen, not yet satisfied with the harm she had caused, summoned the secretary and instructed him to go to the palace and bring Talia back, claiming that the king awaited her presence, believing she was obeying the lord's wishes and eager to see him again. Talia left immediately, unaware of the danger awaiting her. She was met by the queen, whose face was burning with fierce anger. Whoa, first of all, why I didn't know that palaces had secretaries. Maybe somebody's gotta, you know, make appointments.

Andrea 15:29

Well, I mean, there's a lot of people in the palace, so it makes sense you gotta keep them all in order somehow.

Micah 15:35

Yeah, maybe it's just like a manager. Yeah, she greeted her with scorn.

Micah 15:40

So this is the queen greeting the princess with scorn, saying Welcome, welcome madam busybody, you're quite the piece of work, you wretched creature, enjoying my husband. Oh, quite the piece of work you wretched creature enjoying my husband, whoa. So you are the lump of filth, the cruel bitch who has driven me to madness. Change your ways, for you'll soon find yourself in purgatory, where I will make sure you pay for all the harm you've caused me.

Andrea 16:10

Wow that's. That was quite caused me. Wow that's.

Micah 16:14

That was quite a rant.

Andrea 16:16

Yeah.

Micah 16:17

I'd give that a. I'd give it a seven and a half out of ten, as rants go.

Andrea 16:24

So If I met a queen?

Micah 16:27

Would you?

Andrea 16:27

come ranting at me Saying all those horrible things, I'm pretty sure I'd turn around.

Micah 16:35

I've heard. I've heard worse in PG-13 movies today.

Andrea 16:39

Yeah, but that was in a movie, if that was at me.

Micah 16:43

That's true. I've heard worse on the streets.

Andrea 16:49

At you? People are saying these to you. I guess not at me. That's what I'm saying.

Micah 16:53

Well, I guess there's been a few times. It's been at me.

Andrea 16:56

Wow, that's scary.

Micah 16:58

Undeserved, of course.

Andrea 16:59

Okay, yeah Well, let's see what she says. Let's see. Upon hearing these words, Talia tried to defend herself, explaining that she was not to blame because her husband, the king, had taken her by surprise while she was in a deep sleep. However, the queen refused to listen to her pleas. She ordered a large fire to be set up in the palace courtyard and commanded that Talia be thrown into it.

Micah 17:31

Uh-oh, I think the king needs to get home. Thrown into it. Uh-oh, I think the king needs to get home. Seeing the dire situation, Talia knelt before the queen and pleaded to at least be allowed to remove her garments. The queen, not driven by sympathy but by the desire to claim the richly embroidered robes adorned with gold and pearls, agreed saying you may take off your clothes. As Talia removed each piece no, no garment. When she let out a piercing scream, the guards then dragged her to the fire where she was to be burned to ash. It's getting tense, yeah.

Second Chances

Andrea 18:23

Very scary. Yeah, oh, boy. Upon witnessing the horrifying scene, the king suddenly appeared and demanded an explanation. When he asked about his children, his wife, accusing him of betrayal, revealed that she had had them slaughtered and served as meat. Overwhelmed with despair, the king lamented.

Andrea 18:52

Overwhelmed with despair, the king lamented Alas, I have become the wolf devouring my own sweet lambs. Why did my veins not recognize the blood of my own flesh? You dog, what evil deed is this witch you have done? Be gone, you will receive the punishment you deserve, but I won't send someone with such a cruel heart to the Colosseum for pannis.

Micah 19:27

With these words, the king ordered that the queen be thrown into the fire she had prepared for Talia and the secretary who had orchestrated this cruel scheme. He also intended to punish the cook, whom he suspected of slaughtering his children. However, the cook threw himself at the king's feet and pleaded.

Micah 19:50

My lord, my lord. For such a crime, nothing less than a blazing inferno and a spear from behind would be just. I would willingly accept being burned alive and have my ashes mixed with the queen's, but I hope for a different reward for saving the children, despite the queen's malevolence who sought to kill them and return to you what was yours by blood.

Andrea 20:18

Upon hearing these words, the king was stunned and disbelieving, unable to fathom what he had just heard.

Andrea 20:27

Turning to the cook, he said If it is true that you saved my children, know that I will remove you from this task and place you in a position of honor when you can fulfill all my desires. I will reward you generously so that you may consider yourself fortunate in this world.

Micah 20:57

Ah. As the king spoke, the cook's wife, recognizing her husband's plight, brought out the two children, Sun and Moon, for their father to see, the king, delighted in playing with his family, showering them with kisses and affection. He rewarded the cook handsomely, appointing him as a chamberlain. He married Talia and they lived a long and happy life together with their children, genuinely embodying the truth of the proverb.

Andrea 21:30

Those whom fortune favors find good luck even in their sleep. This was not a great story, you mean?

Micah 21:42

well, the bad guy wins.

Micah 21:43

Yeah, this is not a great story. This is sleeping beauty before it became what we know today. It makes it sound like it ends happily, because they lived long and happy life together and maybe that is good. Maybe he will be better to her than he was to his previous wife.

Andrea 22:05

He wasn't happy at the castle with the queen and he fell for Talia and had children that he loved well when you say he fell for.

Micah 22:15

He may have fell for her afterwards, but the first time it was obviously just no, that's what I mean. Fell like he didn't at first, but then he fell for her afterwards, like when he came back because it said that he went when he came back to do that awful thing again, and then he's like oh, I have two kids, yeah, so no, he was an awful person and nothing that he did was right, but it seems like they're going to be happy, so hopefully he will take good care of those children and Talia.

Andrea 22:47

Maybe it's a story about second chances. I guess you could look at that.

Micah 22:51

Gosh. So then we have to go into moral conundrum about does he deserve a second chance? Because the thing that he did was pretty gross.

Andrea 23:04

Then see, there goes my brain All these you know which ways, because look how awful the queen was.

Micah 23:12

Well, that was her reaction. Yes, it was a poor reaction. That's not a normal person's reaction.

Andrea 23:19

There was this Bobbit lady. Not that it would ever be okay, but why would a husband usually like go that drastic? I mean like you could just get all crazy thinking and be like maybe he hated his life and his queen wife.

Micah 23:31

So you're saying it's the queen's fault, you never.

Andrea 23:34

Wow, babe, I'm just saying.

Micah 23:37

That's okay. Maybe she wasn't the best wife but, you don't.

Andrea 23:42

He should never have done what he did.

Micah 23:44

No, no, he should not have. It was awful. Maybe the queen and he was going to do it again. That's what really gets me, are you sure?

Andrea 23:54

Do we know that?

Micah 23:55

Yeah, he was. I mean, did he have any idea to think that she might be awake when he comes back? He was going to poke the lifeless body, and that's what gets me that he went back a second time maybe he was going to just check on her that makes it hard to give the guy a second chance.

Andrea 24:18

I'm an optimistic. I like to give people. I just I feel that that yeah maybe he was just going to apologize and see if she's okay. I don't think so. He said he explained what happened and be like I'm so sorry.

Micah 24:35

I do not think that's what was on his mind.

Andrea 24:37

Maybe we can just think that we could.

Micah 24:39

I mean, if you think that See the good in the world If you think that he was like carrying a bouquet of roses and a box of chocolates with this long rehearsed apology for the horrible thing he did, then it does make the story a little bit better.

Micah 24:55

So we could just think that.

Micah 24:58

But actually our next episode will be Sleeping Beauty in the Wood and it will be a little bit better, a clean it up a little bit.

Andrea 25:10

More optimistic, yes.

Micah 25:13

There we go. Better Clean it up a little bit More optimistic. Yes, it's not as cleaned up or sterilized as what we know today. Like the Disney.

Andrea 25:19

Sleeping Beauty.

Micah 25:21

But it is better than this one.

Andrea 25:24

Okay, can't wait.

Micah 25:26

So if you enjoyed today's show, please like and subscribe I agree. Well, thank you for joining me, andrea. It has been a pleasure and I'm looking forward to the next story and the one after that and the one after that. Let's get to 100, and then we'll see where we'll go from there.

Andrea 25:46

Sounds good.

Micah 25:48

Thank you again for listening. Check out our website at talesofbedlamcom for more fairy tale fun and have a good night.

Andrea 25:56

Good night.