Hey, doc. This is another piece of the Mom and Mind podcast that I recorded some time ago, and I clipped this piece specifically because it's about breastfeeding and my very unique views about breastfeeding, especially as a physician mom. And I think it is very important to re-release this podcast on my platform because I know you need to hear this, doc. I know you know another physician mom who needs to hear this because it is a fairly unique perspective when you think about breastfeeding. But it's not really that unique because I know so many physician moms who are stressed the fuck out by breastfeeding, and I can think of many people that I've spoken to that were like, "Yeah, breastfeeding almost broke me," which was my story with my daughter, and I talk about it in the episode, and it's really just permission. Permission to stop if you don't want to do it. Permission to admit that you don't enjoy it, if that is the case for you. And to say, "You know what? I'm just not even gonna do it. Even though I know all the benefits, even though I may be judged, it's just not something that's for me." This is a no judgment zone, and I get it. I think I got it before my experience, but my experience definitely solidified all of those feelings, and I wanted to share that with you in case you needed to hear it too so I wanted to share this episode with you. Share it with a friend. Reminisce about your experience. Hopefully, it wasn't, it wasn't this bad, and you're like, "Oh, my gosh. That didn't even happen to me." I hope that's the case. And very importantly, share it with an expecting physician mom. Share it with somebody who's trying. Share it with somebody who's... may- maybe not somebody who's not sure if they wanna have kids, 'cause they might be like, "Oh, my God." because we need to normalize this difference of experience so that people don't feel more guilty. And you know that's the point, right? So that you can feel a little more seen and a lot less alone. I hope you enjoy the episode. I still struggled with the breastfeeding. That, I think, prolonged the anxiety. And it was just a lot of frustration because even though I still was able to make enough milk for her, my supply was very tenuous. So if I Didn't drink enough water. If I skipped a meal, anything, if I skipped a pump, it would tank and then I would just be playing catch up. So that was very frustrating. And I just felt like my entire life now that, you know, I feel better, things are better with my husband, but I still have this one thing that is dragging me down. I have to plan everything around, you know, this production of the milk to make sure she has enough. And it really. took a toll and I stopped at eight months, even though my plan was for a year. I just couldn't do it anymore. So I think that kind of prolonged my suffering. And I, you know, I hesitate to use that word, even though that's what was happening, because I don't want it to sound dramatic, but you know, I was really suffering and I was glad that I was able to make that choice, but it still was a difficult one. Even now, I still, I'm like, Oh, I wish I could have a little bit longer. And when I see people Breastfeeding. Um, that's sweet. But I needed to stop. I definitely needed to stop. I think that was the biggest toll on my mental health after the immediate postpartum. Sure. I mean, it sounds very stressful because it really something you needed to be fairly constantly aware of. Yes. So after the breastfeeding weaned or stopped, did you have any noticeable improvement? Oh, yeah. It was like night and day. Yeah. It was just such a relief and it helped that she did not care. My daughter just, she, we had already added in the formula because I was gone. So If the milk ran out because it was so exact, they knew from since we went to Mexico, they had it as a backup and she would take it easily and take a bottle easily. I know that's not always the case for people. So that's an even, you know, bigger layer of stress is that if the baby's refusing a bottle, but she was fine. So I think that helped with the guilt. And I also had another good friend who made a lot of milk and I got. her breast milk. So she was actually still able to get breast milk up until about a year. So she still got like a mix of her milk and mine. Plus we started solid. So it wasn't as big of a deal. I mean, eight months is still quite a long time. So, but yeah, for me, it was just a relief pumping. I feel like it's a torture, like a special torture. Yeah. I mean, it's an additional level of work. It's not just like, you're not just. Pumping instead of breastfeeding, you're setting it up, you're cleaning things, it's an extra, you know, bit of time for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and then like, how much am I getting? And then you got to store it. And that's why, you know, when I hear the evidence about breastfeeding and its relationship to depression, I always chuckle a little bit. I'm like, we need to give people some caveats with that because I never really bought into that 100 percent because I'm in a physician community. I know a lot of us do not have that relationship with breastfeeding because of the level of pressure and the level of guilt. We tend to be away more and the breastfeeding becomes so much more important because, well, at least I can do this one thing. Right. So if you have that level of pressure and then supply issues or whatever else is going on, it can really bring you down. And yes, it is beneficial. And I enjoyed it with my son and it was great. And I even enjoyed it with my daughter. Blanket statements and beliefs that breastfeeding, you know, if you stop breastfeeding, you'll immediately get depression. And I know that's, I'm exaggerating it because that's how I feel inside. You know, like when you hear those things and the pressure from externally lactation consultants and everything about, needing to breastfeed, it can really worsen things when you want to stop and you want to stop for your mental health, like I did, Um, so yes. If you breastfeed your rates of postpartum depression are less, but you can also feel a lot better if you stop if it's part of the reason that you are depressed and anxious as well. And I think that's important for somebody to hear. Yeah, and it's as you probably already know how much of a hot button issue it is. I mean, there's Debates online and people who feel very, very strongly about their position, even if their position is out of the context of someone else's reality. We have to temper it, have to temper it, and you just never know what somebody is going through. And I think that's the biggest thing. They have to make a decision that is best for them and their child and their family. So yeah. Thanks for speaking to that. It's, man, it gets rough in those chat rooms and so on social media and whatever. I actually, it just came to me, I forgot about this. I was at a conference pumping because I was away and I've been back on TikTok at this point. That's where I used to create all of my education stuff. And I made a TikTok giving like, I was like, I don't know who needs to hear this, but you can stop breastfeeding. You can stop pumping. It's okay. And I was talking to myself. Because I was so frustrated that I had to leave. I had to go and figure out where I was going to put this milk, like all of the things. And I just remember just being like, I just wish I could stop. And nobody was making me continue. It was all internal. And. In that video, somebody commented about, I just need to figure out, like, something, you know, it'll be okay. Just keep going. And I was like, this is exactly what I was talking about. Right. Like, you don't know what I'm going through, you know, and that is not helpful. Not at all. Yeah, as soon as you hear the, why don't you just, that, okay, yeah. Right. Cool if it works for you, but. Right, right. It's really hard. Hi. Hi. I hope you enjoyed the episode, and I just wanted to end and say if you are the one giving the advice, don't be like that commenter on my TikTok video. really listen and be there for the mom that's sharing with you. And if she is asking for what to do to increase the supply to help with the pain, sure, you can tell her. But if she's just venting, if she's saying, "Oh my God, I want to stop," listen, be there for her, validate her feelings. Don't give her advice she didn't ask for to continue, because even if you feel like it may be helpful, I am telling you, she is interpreting that as, "Oh, well, this is a reason that I should just continue. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough. Maybe she's telling me this because she's saying that I'm a bad mom because I can't continue, or I don't want to continue," and her mind is spiraling. So really listen and Ask yourself, what does she need from me right now? What is she actually asking? And give her that. And if you're not sure, you can ask. And this is, you know, to take a step out, this is a communication tool that I advise my clients to use specifically with their husbands. but it can be for anybody that you're in relationship with, and That means literally everybody. When somebody is speaking to you, and they're complaining, they're unsure, and you, you immediately go to giving advice, pause and ask yourself, "What, what do they actually need right now? What are they asking me?" And if I am not sure, "Hey, what do you need from me right now?" It's something I ask my clients because sometimes I'm not sure, 'cause I have a... Y'all know I have a lot of things to say. I have a lot of advice, a lot of opinions. But in a coaching container, when I am supporting another physician mom, it doesn't actually matter what, what I want to say and what I think. It's about what she needs in that moment. And sometimes it's unclear. Sometimes it's unclear because there's so many things that I'm being told. Sometimes it's unclear because she's unclear, and asking the question helps her clarify. But I, I ask, actually, I did that yesterday in a coaching session because there were a lot of things I could have said, but none of those things are important when somebody's in front of you, and you want to be supportive. So if you're not sure, "What do you need from me right now? How can I best help you? How can I help you feel better?" Or not feel worse. Because it could just be, "I just need you to listen. I need you to commiserate. I need you to tell me that I'm not a bad mom. I need you to tell me that it's okay for me to stop." And even the release of admitting what she actually needs could be the thing that makes her feel a little bit better when she already feels so, so shitty. So I am asking if you're ever in this position where you're hearing another mom talk about breastfeeding or complain about anything that has to do with motherhood, take a step back and really evaluate, "Am I giving her what she needs with this advice, with whatever I'm about to say right now?" And if you're not sure, ask. All right, doc, I'll see you on the next episode of Stethoscopes and Strollers.