Murals to Movements, Wide Open Walls Creates Art for All.

Join me as I converse with David Sobon, Founder and CEO of Wide Open Walls, a most unique nonprofit. We discuss the impactful mural movement that has transformed Sacramento into a vibrant city-wide canvas, celebrating diversity, creativity, equity, and civic pride. David shares insights about the genesis of Wide Open Walls, the involvement of local and international artists, and the role of public art in connecting communities. We also discuss the extensive work done in schools, curating local talent, and collaborations with other nonprofits. The episode highlights the challenges of fundraising and the future expansion plans for creating more public art in Sacramento and beyond.

To learn more about Wide Open Walls, you can visit the website by clicking HERE.

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00:00 Introduction and Local Pride
00:35 Welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast Network
01:25 The Impact of Public Art in Sacramento
02:25 Interview with David Ban: The Genesis of Wide Open Walls
03:31 David Ban's Artistic Journey
04:23 The Birth of Sacramento Mural Festival
06:02 Challenges and Successes of Wide Open Walls
10:31 The Logistics of Creating Murals
17:53 Honoring Legends Through Murals
20:37 How to Get Your Wall Painted
25:30 Curating Artists for Wide Open Walls
25:57 The Vision for Sacramento's Art Scene
26:29 Empowering Local Artists
28:22 School Murals: Art for All
32:23 Collaborations and Nonprofit Support
34:55 Funding Challenges and Corporate Support
41:32 Expanding the Footprint of Wide Open Walls
44:59 Personal Passions and Future Plans
49:02 Conclusion and Call to Action

Thank you so much for listening to this nonprofit story! We appreciate you. Please visit the website to sign up for our email updates and newsletter. https://www.nonprofpod.com/ And if you like, leave me a voicemail to comment on the program, leave a question for us to ask in the future or a message for me, Jeff Holden. I may even use your voice mail message in a future episode of one of our incredible local nonprofit organizations. https://www.nonprofpod.com/voicemail. Thanks again for your support in listening, commenting and sharing the great work our local nonprofits are accomplishing.

Transcript

David Sobon: [00:00:00] It's just something that I think that people, they have a lot of pride in their city when there wasn't a lot of pride going on, for a lot of things going on for a long time that I grew up in this town. I think that was a, an impact. That's maybe not as easy just to recognize, but I mean, if you ask me, I see it, I see the pride that people have.

Their kids are moving back here. They want, they want to go do mural tours.

Jeff Holden: Hi, I'm Jeff Holden. Welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast Network. Our purpose and passion is to highlight a nonprofit organization in each weekly episode, giving that organization an opportunity to tell their story. In their words, to better inform and educate the respective communities they serve, as well as provide one more tool for them to share their message to constituents [00:01:00] and donors.

Our goal is to help build stronger communities through shared voices and to both encourage and support the growth of local nonprofit organizations through podcasting. Thanks to our partners for their support in getting these stories told. CAPTRUST fiduciary advice for endowments and foundations and Western Health Advantage, a full service healthcare plan for individuals, employer groups, and families.

What began as a bold idea to bring art into public spaces has grown into one of the most celebrated mural movements in the country. Imagine Sacramento, not just as a city. As a living, breathing canvas where art has transformed neighborhoods, school campuses sparked community conversations and created opportunities for local and international artists to be a part of something bigger, a shared cultural experience that's both accessible and unforgettable.

This isn't just about murals, it's about what happens when [00:02:00] you give people and places a voice through color, shape, and story. It's about civic pride, economic uplift, and making sure that art belongs to everyone. It's about placemaking, equity, storytelling, and the power of public art to spark change. This colorful idea has blossomed into a citywide movement that celebrates diversity, elevates creativity, and makes art a part of everyday life.

I'm speaking with David Sobon Founder and CEO of wide open walls to have him tell the story. How the program changes neighborhoods, supports emerging artists and uses public art to connect people across backgrounds and borders. We'll get the story behind the murals and the mission that drives them in such a way that these walls don't divide, but actually connect us.

David Sobon, welcome to the nonprofit podcast Network. 

David Sobon: Ah, Jeff, so great to see you again. 

Jeff Holden: And you know, I wasn't gonna do this, but I'm going to, we have a bit of history. We both crossed over at some [00:03:00] point in time, back in the day, probably 85, 6 7, at a radio station that was FM 1 0 2, Chris and Mike in the Morning Zoo, and a whole lot of craziness.

And our paths have just crisscrossed all over the market for the past. I hate to say it decades, 30 plus some years, right? Yeah. So it's it. It's so neat to see you doing what you're doing. Wide open walls. What. Was the genesis of it back in what, 2017 ish That Yeah. Even got you going? 

David Sobon: Well, I think it all has to, everything starts with my mother, literally, because she was the impetus of art in my life and art in in our, in our family.

Oh, she was the impetus of you. That's also true. There was a dad involved there too, but she was always an art lover. I'm the oldest of a family of six. Our vacations were spent either camping or going to museums or doing yard work, you know? Mm-hmm. Gardening, that kind of stuff, but kind of instantly fell in love with the whole [00:04:00] art process.

She always had. Art books laying around and Architectural Digest and you know, I was always sort of interested in that stuff. And I think it really came from one day they went on, I think maybe their first vacation together and they came back with an oil painting from the ocean and they said that it cost $150, which is like three weeks of Oh, a lot of money.

Money, right. I'm. Okay, so I guess this is something special. Right? And then she, when, uh, when the family started the winery, it was something that she was not really interested. The winery say she something that she wasn't really interested in doing, but it was my dad's passion. She's gonna support him. She had to go back to work as a nurse to make it happen.

And as soon as the opportunity came that she didn't have to work full-time anymore to support the wineries. She wanted to do an art gallery, and so the winery, the original winery in the second phase of the winery were basically cleaned out with new buildings being built, and she ended up bringing in an art gallery that ran for.

She's almost 20 years and running. Yeah. Attached as a running of 

Jeff Holden: the winery. Yeah. So when you came to do wine tasting and that there was a gallery there [00:05:00] for exhibit, 

David Sobon: there was always a gallery space there. Oh, how neat. Neat. And outta high school. I, I think even the limited tra traveling that I had done, I've been to all the major museums and, and looking at art, the traditional stuff.

I was a big, big fan of impressionism, but when I was on my own and traveling around the. The world. It was more about, oh, I gotta go to the Tate, right? And you're in London, you gotta go to these different museums. And there's like, what's that stuff on the street? And the alleys out there that grungy looking cool stuff.

So I kind of got a taste of what that sort of looked like. Continued doing a lot of traveling and the more traveling I went and sort of the bigger in the grungier, the city, the more outdoor street art. The murals. The graffiti. And I started in the subway. Sure. Really starting to get into it. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. You see so much differentiation in the big cities.

Yep. You know, on the trains, on the subways, and just in those somewhat desolate areas where it. Actually is attractive because it's a whole lot better looking than a busted bunch of windows in a factory that's [00:06:00] dilapidated. 

David Sobon: Yeah. So that's where the real interest came. And I've lived downtown for quite a long time, spent a little time out there in the suburbs raising kids, but when I came back downtown, just walking the dog every day, something that I, you, you're, you'll probably ask me at some point, what do I do for fun?

I'll get that outta the way. I love to hike. I love to walk and just walking in downtown. You know, at some point, you know, every building, you know, every Victorian going down the street, you know, all the commercial buildings have walked every single street in the grid. And it's like, okay, let's walk the alleys.

And there's alleys in Sacramento that looked like rural California with orchards on 'em, like over near the railroad tracks. And there's alleys that had art on them, like graffiti. And I'm like, man, this town would be super cool if we could do some of that stuff they do in London and, and all these other different cities in Sacramento.

So I, um, was an A LF with Shelly. American Leadership Forum. American Leadership Forum, yes. Right. And she was the arts commissioner at that point. Okay. So we basically asked her, can we do something like this in Sacramento? And the answer was, yes. We can help [00:07:00] you fund it. We can run it for you. 'cause you're not a, you're not a nonprofit yet.

And it actually started, the first alliteration of Wide open walls was something called the Sacramento Mural Festival. It was something that I came up with the idea, we ran it by her, she had a lot of resources and actually hired a curator out of LA to help. Get that project started. So we did 11 murals our first year, which doesn't seem like very many.

Well, it sounds like a lot to me. Well, but actually there was already 300 murals in Sacramento. I don't think anybody could tell you where they were or what they were. I mean, a very small percentage of the population could do that, but there was no attention on them. The average person had no idea there was any murals.

Most of 'em were in downtown or in the south area. Sure. And what the first year did was. Pretty magnificent. We've got a pretty good marketing eye and you know, back in the radio days and working with Lizanne Hunt and promotions and all that good stuff, we were able to, and with the help, that's where it comes from too, is Patrick Harbison from PHPR.

Mm-hmm. He was one of the [00:08:00] original, um, board members, unofficial board members. Over on our committee meeting, putting together the Sacra Intermural Festival. We had 44 unique television stories. On 11 murals. I was just gonna say for the first year, the very first year of Sacramento Mural Festival, and all of a sudden there's all this interest.

It's like, oh my God. The city decided they were our sponsor for the nonprofit, so we had to become our own nonprofit. The city didn't want to do it anymore. They did it once and it was something that didn't make any money for them. So let's be honest, it was too much work. It didn't make any money, and I figured that, oh, I can break even and I'll do it on my own.

Got, got a committee together and that's basically how it started. So we went from 11 murals and I decided that I would try to outdo that and we did 44 murals our first year as wide open walls. 

Jeff Holden: You are kidding me. 

David Sobon: Yeah. Just about killed me and I didn't In, in 

Jeff Holden: what period of time? Over what, what? 10 days.

So all that took place at once as like the festival, the period of [00:09:00] time was during that quote unquote festival time. That's. 4.4 a day getting completed. 

David Sobon: Well, everybody starts literally within the same week and it's a 10 day festival, so they're painting. We actually pro, I know that we had a mural that was done before the festival, so when you have the press conference, there's something for everybody to look about and talk about.

It's in front of it and we can talk about that, but sure. They had, they shot more B roll. For all the television stations and the, and the promotion literally lasted for months and then all of a sudden the Visit Sacramento was involved. And the tourist agencies. And the hotels and it became a little bit easier to raise the money that I personally lost the first year.

'cause it wasn't a little bit, yeah, I just kept going full speed ahead and then, and at the end did the math and it didn't quite work out. You know, I know why the city didn't wanna do it again, but being a little bit more conservative in the, in the second year of We Up Walls, I think we produced closer a little less than 30, I think it was 28, 29 years.

Still a 

Jeff Holden: fair amount of product to put out into the community. 

David Sobon: Sure. And we also learned some lessons of what you should and you shouldn't spend money [00:10:00] on, and how do you have to be a little bit more conservative and a lot of partnerships in the community. I was just gonna say, we're gonna get there in a second.

It's about the partnerships with the hotels and Visit Sacramento and all those lovely people that supported us from there. At the very beginning, Sacramento, the community regional foundation. Mm-hmm. We were able to basically sort of make up that, that that lost income in the, in the first year. So we've been going ever since.

Jeff Holden: So you've got an experience now in terms of what this has done, what it's done for the city, which I think some of it's certainly really obvious, you know, coverage and the beautification elements of it. Tell me what happens transitionally in the experience of seeing this art on a wall. When people see the change, 'cause stuff happens.

David Sobon: Yeah. I think one of the, one of the, I think one of the best compliments over these last eight, nine years of doing this was a friend coming up to me and saying, you know, my kids, you know, they went to college and they went away and they decided they want to come [00:11:00] back. And I go, well, tell me the reason they wanna come back.

Well. There's all this, well, there's all this cool art now and all these new restaurants that are opening and it's kind of the scene in the, and the kids want to come back. And if, and if you've been downtown lately, it's full of kids all the time. You know, young adults. Excuse me. Yes. And um, it's just something that I think that people, they have a lot of pride.

In their city when there wasn't a lot of pride going on for a lot of things going on for a long time that I grew up in this town. Totally agree. And I think it just, I think that was a, an impact That's maybe not as easy just to recognize, but I mean, if you ask me, I see it, I see the pride that people have.

Their kids are moving back here. They want, they want to go do mural tours and they, oh, you know, even they bring in out of town guests. Mm-hmm. What do the outta town guests wanna do? Oh, you wanna go on a mural tour? Oh, of course. Let's go see all the garb. Yes. So that kind of impact is, is pretty neat to be a part of that, 

Jeff Holden: which also changes the perspective of those neighborhoods.

David Sobon: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Because all of a sudden the neighborhoods can take some pride in the exposure that they're getting [00:12:00] from, from the art. Yeah. And I think it was you that even mentioned in our, our prior conversation, art should be free. Yeah. You need people to see it. 

David Sobon: I think I was fortunate I got to go to museums, right?

I got to go to art galleries, but everybody's not in that same, same position. So I think making, I think our tagline for quite a while was Art for All. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

David Sobon: There's really no reason that everybody shouldn't be able to be exposed to this beauty and the creativity and the messaging. I mean, yes, a lot of the murals have messages in them.

You know, you look at the Johnny Cash mural that's on the 18 stories of the, the Marriott on the Capitol, the Shepherd Ferry piece of Johnny Cash. It's not necessarily just about the musician. I mean, it's about prisoner's rights, right? Right. And you have to look at that mural to kind of take a look and see that's what it is.

And it's not just Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison. So, 

Jeff Holden: and it's clearly on there if you look for it. Oh 

David Sobon: my goodness. 

Jeff Holden: Yes. It's, it's definitely there. But if you do just drive by. Yeah. Oh, that's a cool Johnny Cash poster. Yeah. Or a cool Johnny Cash 

David Sobon: mural. There [00:13:00] was quite a conversation. Had the ownership of the hotel, approved the design, the exact same design.

It was approved, the stencils were made of the exact design. And then Shepherd Ferry, after he is finished. He's having a conversation on the news and the owner's going, well what's, what's this? Nobody told us about this. You know, what's going on? He goes, and Shelly, who basically has been the general manager ever since then, said, our numbers are going up.

People are gonna wanna stay at the Johnny Cash Hotel. And it's been true ever since. Yeah. So, you know, it is worth a little cash. Johnny Cash Hotel. Yeah. A little, little bit of controversy. And the same thing on the opposite side of the hotel that's facing the convention center is a piece by how Naam, and it's all about Mother Earth and big oil.

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

David Sobon: Same year. Just a little statement, just a little bit. Just a little statement. Just about a little bit. So, I mean, that's one of the fun things about art. It can be just beautiful, but it also can be very important. It's something that we can turn around in a minute. So when Lady Bird got nominated for the Oscar mm-hmm.

I called Mary Conrad. What does your schedule look like? Well, I'm booked. I'm booked. I'm booked with this goes. Yeah, but the Oscars are tomorrow and [00:14:00] we need to do a lady beard mural. Can you get, can you come up with the design? And I can, and I know that I can get Steve Hanson and Mike Testa. We'll get a couple thousand bucks together.

I'll get the paint, we'll get you the equipment goes. Okay. And then the next day it's raining. She goes, it's raining. I go, you can paint in the rain. Right? It's oil 

Jeff Holden: based. Well, 

David Sobon: not really, but anyway, they ended up being at about nine 75% finished with that mural. And unfortunately Greta didn't come. And there was a unfortunate thing that happened in the United States and Sacramento was kind of affected by the, the Stefan Clark thing.

Right. And there was it, it wasn't possible for her to come to visit the mural at that time. Yeah. But we were able to do something in literally 48 hours. 

Jeff Holden: Amazing. 

David Sobon: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Tell me about that. Do something. What is, do something. I'm thinking just the logistics of one mural, because you've got the paint and the equipment and scaffolding and artist and design and timing to get it all done.

Yeah. You're talking about multiple things and in, in multiple places and different spaces. So who's doing [00:15:00] all this work to make it come together and coordinate it and sequence it properly so that everybody has what they need when they need it? 

David Sobon: Well, we've made every mistake possible because I've been in charge, you know, and, but hopefully I haven't made the same mistake twice.

I mean, we've ordered equipment, the wrong equipment, and it's all of a sudden, okay, now you need somebody from the equipment company to come and tell me what piece of equipment. 'cause I've guessed wrong too many times. Yes, the scaffolding can't go on here because the angle of the wall, it can't be attached right here.

So I've got a partnership, skyline scaffolding, I, I couldn't do this without them. So it's a matter of a lot of different, you know, and paint parts. Partnerships, we've had everybody from Bear to Home Depot to Visions, quality co co coating, which is a recycling paint company. I need paint, I give 'em an order, they bring me bucket paint, uhhuh, you know, and it's, it's fantastic.

So those kind of things. But as far as the logistics, I've had help for artists relations before, which is when all the artists come to town, there's somebody that's gotta be in charge, and that's usually a local artist because they [00:16:00] know what the other artists wanna do. They need time off. They need to paint, they wanna party, they want to get together, they want to eat meals.

They come and work for sometimes a fraction of what they would normally get paid on a commercial job. For the comradery. Sure. For the exposure. I mean, I, at this point, I, I mean, I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say I have probably 200 artists from around the world that want to come paint sitting Sacramento just to say, I wanna do this.

Right. Sure every, every time I go to, to Florida or Miami or a different festival, or even in Scotland last year or London. Artists want to be part of it. They know what White Open Walls has done on on the East Coast. So as far as the logistics goes, yeah, I mean it was a lot of trail and error. I think we have the system down pretty well right now.

We know who to call for painting and who the experts are to do all this stuff that that truck of mine has got a hundred and almost 200,000 miles of driving supplies around. I'm telling you. Yeah, just 

Jeff Holden: 30 square mile radius. 

David Sobon: Right, exactly. Exactly. And you know 

Jeff Holden: what's so cool, David, that I really, really appreciate and I think is back to the [00:17:00] statement you made about.

The kids, meaning the young adults wanting to come back to the city. We see a lot of them. They go to school somewhere else and they do come back. They're recognizing that the SA Sacramento market is finally starting to get some stride. And you know, we've got the development of the rail yards and the downtown waterfront.

Things are changing and you've got wide open walls, which is a spectacular statement 'cause it's so visibly obvious. You can't hide from it. Yeah. And then we have the restaurant. We have Terra Madre coming. I mean, these are big deals for the city that really make a statement. And so we've got this food, we've got this art, we've got the Crocker.

We have. The genesis, I think of something really beautiful happening finally. 

David Sobon: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: That we've all been waiting to see. It's all 

David Sobon: jelling at the same time, isn't it? Yeah. Isn't, isn't it? 

Jeff Holden: And 

David Sobon: all the right people, the right place at the right time. 

Jeff Holden: Exactly. It's great purveyors who get it, who have finally seen the fruits of their labor.

So 

David Sobon: can I, can I slip in a surprise for you? Absolutely. About Tara Madre that you mentioned, the the international slow food event that's coming to town. 

Jeff Holden: Yep. 

David Sobon: We've been working with Jerome [00:18:00] over at the Sheraton. Mm-hmm. And with the families of four culinary, four legends of hospitality. We're going to honor, we're doing a big mural on the back of the Sheraton, which is basically the focal point.

It's in, it's at the entrance of the convention center. Yes. Which is gonna be the focal point for re and we're. We're honoring four legends with black and white portraits. Oh, how cool. The four legends of hospitality, three of 'em have passed. And you'll know the names. I mean, I was gonna say, could probably come up with 

Jeff Holden: a couple of them myself.

And they're all gonna 

David Sobon: be the same names. It's Beone. Yes, it's Lena. Fat. Fat. And it's, and it's Randy Perry. Yeah. Everybody came up, comes up with those exact same names. Yep. And Darrell gave us permission last week to have him on the wall. So there will be the living legend that's on there. And this is four murals of a 200 foot plus long wall.

Wow. And we'll have room to probably do seven to 10 more in the future. So those are so kind of car legends. 

Jeff Holden: Our Mount Rushmore Yeah. Of recognition in [00:19:00] Sacramento. 

David Sobon: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Fantastic. 

David Sobon: We, we did a legend's wall at 12th and R on the back of a Twisted Track gallery two years ago. An artist from North Carolina.

Currently in LA by the name of Js, and Brian did this project all black and white portraits that are 95% accurate to the actual photograph. He uses 13 different shades of gray to paint a black and white portrait, and we honored LaVar Burton was the only living legend from Sacramento. Russ Solomon. Sure.

Tower records. Joan Didion Sure. And the artist Wayne Tebow. 

Jeff Holden: Wonderful. So there's 

David Sobon: 15 foot portraits, uh, right there on 12th on our, if you haven't seen those things, haven't. So we're do the same kind of style with the legends of hospitality. Fantastic. And then we've got legends of art. We get Yeah, you can get, we're to fill it up full of portraits.

And one of the cool things, uh, also about this here, model League location, it's on Jazz Alley and there's already 22 murals on jazz. One is Danny Sandoval, a saxophone player from Sacramento who plays at at the Torch Club and all [00:20:00] around town, and Phil Cerna helped us with that little project and we'll brand Jazz Alley in a number of different places.

And hopefully at some point K Street will be absolutely beautiful and gorgeous enough that everybody's gonna walk down from Doco from the convention center. Up K Street looking at all the cool shops and the coffee shops and the restaurants, and then walk down jazz alley and look at all the art 

Jeff Holden: and maybe there'll even be some semblance of what used to be our jazz festival, only in a contemporary way that we all would've loved to have seen that continue.

David Sobon: Yeah, that's a 10 year project for me. Yeah. I started a few years ago. It's got a long ways to go, but it's gonna happen. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, I agree. It's gonna happen. I totally agree. So I have a wall Uhhuh, I have a building. How do I get. My wall and building to be one of those that is recognized for a mural, 

David Sobon: write me a big fat check.

No, it's a, it's a really good question because a lot of people think they sort of have the right, the right building. So the right building can be a couple of different things. I mean, [00:21:00] if I could just paint. 10 story buildings that all face the freeway, that everybody that's coming past town would go out there.

That's pretty impressive. Millions and millions of people would see those walls. But there's also sort of a, a scavenger hunt. Idea behind where the murals are past. I mean, you can walk down Jazz alley and you can see 22 and for Jazz 

Jeff Holden: Alley Give, give us the actual location 

David Sobon: so everybody knows between J and K Street.

Got it. Right. So, but you can also go between, well you can go between I and J Street on Improv Valley and see another 20 murals. So there's little pockets, you know, that are around Sacramento that have, you know, individual little projects that are going on. Mm-hmm. In all total, we've, we've created over 200 murals downtown, 

Jeff Holden: which is incredible.

I was on the website scanning, and scanning. I think, my goodness, I've seen. 10% of them 

David Sobon: we need, we need to go for a tour. Hey, we absolutely do. Let's go do it. We absolutely 

Jeff Holden: do. So. So what does one do? How do they, is it an [00:22:00] application process of sorts? Oh, it'd 

David Sobon: be helpful if I answered your question. Yes. And you, you got me back in for my tangent.

There you go. There is at least a telephone call. Usually what'll happen or they'll contact the website if they've got a wall that needs to be used. And then it's, if it's a viable wall, and usually that means something that's fairly visible and fairly big. We've done some small projects, but a small project is really.

Like a 15 by 20 wall. Mm-hmm. That's a small one. You know, when we've done 18,000 square feet murals, that's a very small project. Mm-hmm. When you're looking at, you know, four or 500 square feet. Right. But it, it's still, still a viable project. Right. It's still something that can be added to the portfolio, that can be added to the map.

There's always, there's always gotta be a cash commitment. There's very few walls that we have painted that we have been able to finance on our own right. We spent a lot of time, I spent a lot of time trying to raise money for this, for, for this festival. So at this point, if somebody wants a, a mural on their wall, if it's just an absolutely.

Fantastic. A one plus wall that I've been [00:23:00] dreaming about for the last 10 years. Then we'll paint it, but we still need to get paid to do it. Sure. So the artist needs to get paid. We started, when our consultant was hired in that first year of the Sacramento Mural Festival. He said, you don't need to pay the artist.

And I said, you're nuts. My friends are artists. I'm gonna get, they gotta be paid. Right. And we are one of the first festivals in the country to come up with a paid stipend. All your travel, all your food, your hotel airfare if necessary, and your paint, and your equipment and your supplies and all anything that you need to get your project done.

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

David Sobon: Because they could be painting in that first year for $2,500 when they can get a commercial job that'd be $25,000. Mm-hmm. Right. For maybe even the same size project. When Shepherd Ferry did his wall, the 18 story, Johnny Cash, he didn't expect to get paid. He was just, you got me the location and you got me the best wall in Sacramento, we'll just paint it.

And when the check came through it was like, oh, oh that's cool. We, we will pay my boys. Right. Right. That came and assisted on it, but it's also wall that cost over $50,000 to [00:24:00] produce way back when. Scaffolding the lifts, the, the paint, the material, and we had to pay a company to come in and basically do all the prep work.

I mean, there's a huge design in the background that was pre-painted, and then it had to be sealed afterwards, so Okay. It was a pretty expensive project. But yeah, we're constantly raising money and, and looking for walls. 

Jeff Holden: This colorful conversation continues right after these messages from the people who make the program possible.

Scott Thomas: Hello, this is Scott Thomas with CAPTRUST in our Sacramento office. I specialize in working with local nonprofits and associations annually. We survey private and public nonprofit organizations across the country to better understand challenges they see in today's environment. In our more recent survey, we hear concerns about proper board governance, mission aligned investment, and how to implement alternative investments.

If you would like a copy of the survey or do discuss your organization, look me up, scottThomas@captrust.com. 

Jeff Holden: I'm thrilled to have Western Health Advantage partnering with [00:25:00] us as they do so much to support so many nonprofit agencies in our community. As a truly local health plan, you'll find individual and family options, employer options plans for CalPERS and Medicare Advantage.

From medical services to pharmacy health and wellness support, as well as behavioral healthcare, Western Health Advantage has a plan that fits what you need as an employer for profit or nonprofit business, individual or family. You can find more@westernhealth.com. So we talked about walls. How about artists?

How do you curate the artists? Where do they come from? Why? Why all over the country, all over the world. I'm not quite sure the, the range of artists that have shown up here to paint murals. 

David Sobon: Well, the, the focus has always been when, when we started this conversation about the amount of murals that were already existed before, wide open walls, before Sacramento Mural Festival had, there was 300 artists Right.

And maybe 10 or 20 of those were from outside of the area. It could have been more, I, I, I didn't actually keep track, [00:26:00] but it was mostly little local project and small walls, and it got very, very little attention. So the goal from the very beginning was how do we get the world to see what we're doing in Sacramento?

That had to be, that's one of the first things on the vision board when we started this, this adventure. Uhhuh right One, we gotta have a marketing machine behind us and we gotta be able to tell our story. And that was pretty easy to do when we brought in world class artists. I've gotten flack for not hiring a local artist, but if you look at the, if you look at the website and you count, we have been the most diverse mural festival in the country and we, we've had, I mean, we have more than half of the artists or artists of color or women that have basically just occupied the space that we've done.

But the, the local artists. My part of that goal and part of that is vision. They need exposure around the world. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

David Sobon: They need to be able to go out there and, and paint in Spain and London and in Scotland and [00:27:00] Dubai, wherever. And the right 

Jeff Holden: artist is gonna grasp the concept of I'm from Sacramento. Wide open walls.

You might might be familiar with it. Yeah. I recognize that. Here's the, maybe I helped or maybe I was aware of, but. Then they can now take their craft, even if they haven't been part of your program to say, I'm familiar. Let me try something here in your area? Yeah. Or your, your, your, your city, your community.

David Sobon: It's, it's pretty cool. Yeah. I think one of the things I am, one of the two things I'm probably most proud of is the amount of local artists that had never painted a mural before in their life. I can appreciate that. A very large, I mean, this is, well, we're talking over 30 artists, local artists that had never painted a mural before.

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

David Sobon: And I would say at least 20 of 'em are making a living doing it. I mean, Marin Conrad, Rafael Delgado, these, they, they've never painted a mural before and they came and they did it. And the encouragement and the support they got from their sponsors and their family and their friends and, you know, they're off and rolling.

Right. Right. And there's quite a few. So [00:28:00] I think that's something that, that they'll always go back to the idea that, you know, giving them their first shot. So. 

Jeff Holden: If Wayne wasn't so old at the time, we would've had him up on a scaffold for sure. Getting something done. 

David Sobon: You know what? We always wanted to honor him and, and Gregory Condos says condos too.

Sure. I gotta, I gotta do with Gregory Condo. Miro. We've been talking about Monty to that. We just gotta get him on a wall too. Yes, yes. Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: What about some of the other projects that you've got? I know that you've done some things on school campuses and there's a dynamic there that is literally visceral.

Yeah, tell, tell. It's the best. Tell us about that. It's 

David Sobon: the best. Tell us about it. Two years ago, we changed our mission statement from art to art for all to wow US wide open walls, uplifting schools. And at this point we have created over 200 murals on 10 different campuses in Sacramento. It's been just the greatest [00:29:00] experience.

I can't afford to pay the big wall prices, but artists will just come in. I mean, artists from all over the world. Are you doing a festival this year? I, I don't have any big walls, but we're gonna paint a bunch of schools, okay? Mm-hmm. How many schools are you gonna paint? Are you gonna cover my supplies and my accommodations?

Absolutely. Come in and, and paint walls For us at schools, the, the process with that is a little bit different, right? We're giving many artists their first shot. Had a, we did a vendor market. There was a vendor market that we were doing at Rosa Parks Elementary school, and there was an artist, uh, art by Bray, and she had little canvas bags and de and designs that were on there.

And she's just a beautiful young lady. We had a conversation where she goes, have you ever painted a mural? Goes, no, I've always wanted to. She goes, I have a wall for you. She goes like, like, for this weekend, for like now. And I go, yeah, what do you need? We gave her a wall. I didn't, we were at a budget, but I got her paint.

I gave her a wall, and she basically painted a really, very, very cool design. Something similar that she was doing. Her mags, [00:30:00] and the happiest moment is like, I'm calling her next year, I got your first paint gig for a mural. And it is just outstanding. That stuff just kind of makes it happen. But the, but the whole school thing is.

A little bit different because there's a lot of impact from the teachers and the principal. Mm-hmm. And the kids. For every school that we've done, we've done a project that has involved almost all the students at the elementary schools, they're doing hand prints or they're doing drawings. Um, at Hiram Johnson High School, we had eight out of our 34 walls, eight were painted by students, and three were painted by teachers.

Or teachers with a group of students. So we went in there and talked. We came up with artists to mentor the students. And there's nothing like go to see Shane Grammar's wall at, uh, Hiram Johnson, and photos of 25 kids just having a blast with paint, just splash and paint all over and following instruction and filling the lines.

And Shane just laughing away and they're just having so much fun and they get, [00:31:00] there's so much pride involved. Yeah. When the kids get involved every time, and it really is, and that's that. That's just the best. 

Jeff Holden: And every time they walk on campus, they see that I was a part of that. 

David Sobon: And those campuses aren't getting painted for 25 more years.

Those murals are gonna be up there for a long time. Yeah, they'll be, 

Jeff Holden: those will be generational murals. Oh, absolutely. That cool family after family that was grandpa's mural. 

David Sobon: Well, you know what, and what's interesting about that, so we've, we've basically gone back to a few of the schools because they've asked for help for mentoring.

So like, what's the, the first school we did is on Lemon Hill. I'm, I'm drawing a blank on the name. And we went in and we did 15 murals, but there's 10 more murals that have been painted since. Same with Tahoe Elementary. That was the first one we did. Mm-hmm. We did 22 murals out there, and I think there's over 30 now.

Because it just inspired other artists to go, oh, can we paint there? Can we do this? Can you find a wall? Yeah. And the last time I visited, I was totally surprised. There's like five new really cool murals that are there and some of them being done by students that, that, that school has, has a special part in my, in, in my heart.

My [00:32:00] granddaughter was eight years old, an incredible artist for an 8-year-old, and I asked her if she wanted to be a paid muralist. Festival and she actually painted a toad on the principal's hallway for his office and it's still there today. And it's, I'm sorry. It's brilliant. 

Jeff Holden: Isn't that 

David Sobon: awesome 

Jeff Holden: Question for you with regard to collaboration with other organizations, other nonprofits?

Who, how? What does that look like? Because I know you do. 

David Sobon: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: Who might they be? It's a, 

David Sobon: well, it's a little bit different. I mean, for what we do, so a lot of the requests, I was a professional auctioneer for 30 years. Yes, I do remember that. You might remember I sold the company and then I got the company back this year.

So I'm kind of excited about going out there and doing auctioning for nonprofits. Freddy's killing it right now, by the way. Yes. He, he's just doing a great job. He's awesome. Freddy's got some competition because I'm back. A lot of it has been with the organizations that I've worked for before. I mean, hope Cooperative.

I donated a huge piece of David Garibaldi that I got stuck mine 'cause nobody else has bidding and I've bid against myself. So I [00:33:00] donated to them. But we've also done murals for them. Right. And St. John's. Mm-hmm. We've done donations for them and the Heart Association of, I'll conduct a mural tour, I'll get an artist to create a piece of canvas.

You're gonna go on a tour, you're gonna drink, you're gonna eat, you're gonna have fun and you're gonna get a piece of canvas when you're done. These nonprofits have raised over $10,000. So just by being creative and knowing a lot about the nonprofit world mm-hmm. A lot of, I've reached out to nonprofits, or, well, they've reached out to me.

Sure. See, can you donate something for the auction? For our live auction. So those kind of collaborations and those kind of projects we have from D-D-S-O-D-D-S-O stands for the development, though Disabled something. Anyway, we've hired artists from a lot of these different groups, some from homeless artists to paint during the festivals before.

Mm-hmm. I mean, some of those creations have just been absolutely brilliant. So it's a little bit different. It's, I think in our organization it's aous way to get there. Yeah. [00:34:00] But exactly. 

Jeff Holden: But. A very supportive way because it's literal in terms of the result that they see because it comes back in cash.

David Sobon: Right. Well and there's another op opportunity, so we did, we did a mural once for a nonprofit. You're gonna 

Jeff Holden: wish you didn't say this because we're having this conversation. You're probably gonna get hit by I 

David Sobon: It's okay. More love the better. Right. I, that's right. I always find out more is more, people always find time to do more stuff.

That's right. That we just do. But we offered an opportunity. We came up with a very reasonable price for the cost for the nonprofit to basically pay to have an artist come and paint a wall. Mm-hmm. And they did a fundraising campaign and they ended up $15,000 ahead because they raised more than the cost of the mural outstanding.

And they knew they were doing it. It was just a way to basically do a fundraiser without doing a fundraiser. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

David Sobon: So we've done that a couple times. Every time. They've raised a lot more money than than they anticipated, so that's been kind of a fun and it's fun way to support the nonprofit community.

Jeff Holden: Great segue too, funding for the organization. How, how does it work? Who do you go to? How do you get this stuff [00:35:00] underwritten? 

David Sobon: Yeah. Those are my hands on my head. Exploding. Exploding. But you guys can't see 

Jeff Holden: Yes. Yeah. For the audio only. 

David Sobon: Yeah. That's, that's, that's the challenging part. It's been different every single year.

We got a lot of support from the, the city and visit Sacramento in the very beginning. Mm-hmm. And then we were in their, in their eyes, successful. So they don't need to support again, visit Sacramento is the exception they've always done. Sure. But we haven't really received any of their support from the city or the Arts Commission ever since then.

Um, so they're really kind of focused on new opportunities and new organizations, and they've done their own mural festival. Mm-hmm. So a lot of those sources are not in that same position. And in the nonprofit world, I mean, I think probably our, our best year, we raised over $600,000. And during COVID it was closer to a hundred and maybe even less than a year.

Sure. A year after that. So it takes a while to be able to pay the CEO. It took four years to get my first paycheck and, and then, then it kind of dried up again. Yeah. So it's [00:36:00] just part of it, it's part of the passion, the part of the love You gotta do the new projects, the one doing the legends, there'll be a, there's this kind of a separate fundraising component of what that looks like to support different walls that we're doing there.

Jeff Holden: And I would imagine you have corporate support from some places, of course, that have interest. I don't want to put anybody in a box, but the uc Davis is in this, let's put 'em all in a box right now. The Kaiser, you we're gonna list them all out right now and smud, lemme keep going. The people that really engage in our community to support it, but yes.

And some of the banks, Hey, this is a beautification act. It's community reinvestment 

David Sobon: and two of our, our longest supporters, other than some that I've mentioned that are doing equipment, things like that yes, have been dignity health. Dignity Health, good to hear, and, and uc. Davis Health, we've done many murals at, at both of their, their campuses.

We're finishing one this week, a 200 foot long wall on V Street at the UCD Health Center. It will be the street that you're gonna drive down, and next year we are creating the, one of the, if not the largest mural, the west of the Mississippi, here in [00:37:00] Sacramento. So you're gonna drive down V Street, you're gonna see a 200 foot.

Long redwood forest, and then about another half block, you're gonna look up and you're gonna see a 50,000 square feet masterpiece painted on the city's water receptacle, the big water tower that's out there. Very cool. So you know the one that's on Hamra? I know exactly. Everybody knows that one, know exactly what you're talking about, but the yards on there.

This one's twice as big. So it's a hundred feet tall and five a hundred feet along. So we have an artist coming from out of town and he will hire a big crew of local artists to basically support his design. So we went through going through the, the neighborhood associations and the, and the different representatives to make sure that the design is approved and we finally will have our method of understanding from the city, hopefully next month, and vote to go and we'll be ready to rock and roll next 

Jeff Holden: year.

No, that's just awesome. Yeah. And what a great spot to do it. Oh my goodness. Yeah. You know what a wonderful spot. So much attention focused. You see it from space. Yeah, right. It's a big mural. I love it. Wide open walls. Great. Wall of the Great Wall, right? Yes, [00:38:00] exactly. So we have a situation, somebody says, I love what you're doing, David.

I got a blank check for you if, oh God, I love you Jeff. If you give me a good enough reason to give it to you, what would it look like? What would you do with the organization if somebody said, here, do it. I love that 

David Sobon: question. I mean, there's so many things that come to mind. I'll, I'll, I'll share a project that we did and it's prob, it's not the number one reason, it's probably number two or three on the list, but we've had some pretty good years with fundraising where there's been, you know, there's money that, that we didn't spend producing the festival.

Sometimes it goes for deposits for next year and mm-hmm. And, you know, paying insurance and all that other stuff that you have to do when you have a nonprofit. Right. But we've basically, on a couple occasions, the biggest sort of art festival in the country is in Miami. It's called Art Basel. And Wynwood Walls happens at the same time and there's a community out there.

And they started a project that the Wow US literally came from. [00:39:00] There's a couple different projects in Miami where they basically have artists, they come and they volunteer and they find money for their paint and their equipment. Mm-hmm. And they paint schools. It's done on a very limited basis, but they've been doing it for a long time.

So in, in talking to both those organizers, we gotta do it in Sacramento. I've had both those organizers come out and see what we are doing. We've learned from each other doing that. And in the last couple of years, I've taken artists from Sacramento to go paint some of the biggest walls in Miami. And wide open walls.

My other company Evoke Arts that does commercial murals is the one that sponsored it last year, and we brought artists, one from Sacramento and two from Sacramento and one from San Francisco. All great talented artists, and none of them had painted a 80 foot tall wall before. They, they wanted to do it for their portfolio.

He goes, alright, well I'll get your paint, I'll get your equipment. You can, you can come, I'll get a condo wall, hang out together and we'll fly out there. And they painted. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

David Sobon: And being able to bring artists that have worked with our [00:40:00] organization and give them those opportunities, like that would be something that I'd love to do.

I, I would love to do a lot more of it, but I think if it came right down to it, I think the vast majority would have to do with kids in schools. The Sacramento City Unified School District, you know, they sponsored the first year of those first six schools with the quarter million dollars. It costs money to basically put that many murals on walls at schools.

Mm-hmm. It just does. They had a change in leadership there and decided not to continue that. So all the other schools that we've done since then have been, you know, part of our fundraising and our campaign. But I would love the opportunity to go paint schools and pay artists a, a really fair wage to come out there and do it.

It's just not gonna be all, you know, young artists or artists that hadn't painted murals before. We always like to give them a chance, but I think. Expanding this program from not just schools in the Sacramento area. There's so many other school districts that, that could use it. I get, I get phone calls all the time.

How'd you do this? How'd you do this? What'd you do? How'd you make it happen? [00:41:00] You know? And it, it takes money to do it. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

David Sobon: If there was a, a blank check i'd. I don't know if I'd have time for vacation. I literally would be just setting up schools and hiring artists from all over the world to come paint and give these kids an opportunity.

Something to be proud of. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, that's the love. It's, let's go find that blank check, dude. Come on. So, so take a step backwards now. We're outta the blank. Check space. We're into reality. What is the greatest need? What do you see that is the best opportunity to continue to do what you're doing with these walls?

What, what is that? 

David Sobon: I think it's to expand the footprint. I mean, I've done 200 walls in downtown, in Midtown, Sacramento. There's another 20, almost 50 in other outline areas. We've painted in Roseville, we've painted in Rockland, we have painted in West Sacramento, but there's so many other, you know, communities in need that see what we're doing.

Our next big event every September and every May is we've kind of expanded from once a year. So twice a year, maybe [00:42:00] not festivals that are quite as big in scope mm-hmm. As having 44 artists at one time, but doing it twice a year gives a little bit more flexibility. So every May and every September we'll be doing a version of wide open walls.

But Elk Grove is next on the calendar. Sure. We are going through a process right now where we should be able to paint, hopefully. For the next five years and make that community, they, they've done a good job with, um, with public funds for statues and big public mural or public projects, but really no significant murals whatsoever.

So going into community like that, I mean, it's one of the fastest growing communities. There's a lot going on our most diverse 

Jeff Holden: communities too. I can only Oh, that's amazing. Imagine 

David Sobon: what those murals could look like. 

Jeff Holden: It's gonna be brilliant. Yeah. I mean, 

David Sobon: we're gonna paint there. There'll be some difficulty painting in, in the historic district about sort of the approvals and the colors that get to be used, but we, we have that experience.

We, we know what we're doing there. We're in for some surprises even before that next mural festival in Elk Grove that are just, just around the corner. So kind [00:43:00] of, kind of looking for that. So expanding the footprint. It doesn't mean I'm gonna stop painting in, in downtown or in the midtown area if those opportunities arise.

There have been people that have been wanting to have a wall painted for the last five years and just haven't come around to the design or the money yet. Right? Sure. And we're always checking in with those folks and, you know, giving them another, another opportunity. The other thing, it's just not about us.

It's just not about wide open walls. I think one thing that we have done is given. The artists, whether it's their first mural, their 10th mural, they're out there hustling. 

Jeff Holden: Mm-hmm. 

David Sobon: I'm seeing new murals go up all the time, and it just makes me, you know, first, oh, I missed that wall. But they didn't, they're out there hustling.

They know they can do it. They're super, super talented and you know, with a little bit of. A little bit of salesmanship and you know, showing their portfolio. They're out there, they're getting their own walls. So even though we've created, you know, a good, probably 450 plus at this point, there has been in the last eight years as many walls created from just artists out there hustling, [00:44:00] which is 

Jeff Holden: great to see because they came from their experience and their confidence and their, a lot of times it did exposure.

David Sobon: Yeah. A lot of times it did. Of 

Jeff Holden: either practicing with or hanging out with somebody who was of notoriety doing it while and or now doing their own. Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful because. More is more. Mm-hmm. It's just it, it's better. It's, it's what it produces for those neighborhoods. Yeah. And that's so, so significant.

David Sobon: So expanding that footprint is something that really has me excited. I mean, I've gotten phone calls working to hopefully do a mural in Plymouth this year. Right. And Plymouth, I've in Amador County at Center Creek and up in Auburn and all these different small communities and I can see what those might look like already.

Wow. 

Jeff Holden: Exactly. And some of those communities we think are so stayed and traditional. They really have a progressive element to them that could be so cool. 

David Sobon: They don't all want historical stuff. I agree. Which really is, you know that, that makes me smile. Yes. I'm happy to do a historical mural every once in a while.

Yeah. I got the culture. We've got all that. It's happening, but let's just paint an ice cream cone on a wall that's pink. Right. Come on, let's just do art for art's sake. Yeah. [00:45:00] So 

Jeff Holden: what does David do for fun? What's, what's your passion outside of the art itself? I mean, when you're unwinding just. Out of the realm of.

Wide open walls. Hmm. 

David Sobon: I love to hike. I am just so in, I just got back from a vacation and I did 60 miles and quiet last week. 

Jeff Holden: Oh 

David Sobon: wow. Just golfing and hiking. And I live in the Ranch of Marietta community and I've spent a lot of time building trails. There's already a, there's already a community of about 23 miles of trails and now it's 23 and a half and it'll be 24 soon.

So get out there with a pick axe and a, and a and a trail hoe and, you know, move rocks around and build trails is something that I, and definitely something we really enjoy doing to kill those damn rattlesnakes out there too. 'cause they are everywhere, right? Yeah. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta keep that open.

That's neat. And, and just to continue, I think for fun it's, it's, it's traveling. I've been very, very fortunate. To make travel a priority in, in, in my life and all of the [00:46:00] travel. If it's not golf related at this point, it's art related. Yeah. So, yeah. Visiting other communities and visiting other artists. I mean, there's nothing like going to Scotland and seeing your very favorite mural in the, in the entire world.

And then calling the studio and making an appointment with Smug. And he is like, oh, white open walls. Come in, let's take a look at the studio. I'm like, oh my God, there's nothing better. Isn't that great? So it's just the best. So, you know, it is somebody that's on that list that wants to come to Sacramento and paint.

He's gotta find the right, the right wall for 'em. So how 

Jeff Holden: does one find out more? Learn about the organization, see what you've got going, what's the best way to do that? 

David Sobon: The website is probably the best. If you wanna look at just the new art and what's going on every single week, not as much information, but lots of photos and lots of yes information.

That'd be Instagram that we, we post on a regular basis. You're looking the stories, they change all the time. It's, it's. Wide open walls. Okay. You'll, you'll find it right there. It's pretty easy. There's also a YouTube channel that probably has hundreds and hundreds of videos, but the website, wide open walls.com is the best.

Okay. [00:47:00] If you wanted to take a tour, we don't, we don't do tours. We've had other organizations with our permission and in our education go out there and do tours. Like there's a, there's a food group and Fleet Feet. There are a couple of other organizations that do mural tours, but, um, and I saw you do 

Jeff Holden: have a tour route.

David Sobon: On the website. Well, that's the whole point. The website literally has, it's the best mural website out there. It, we, it's just we, they put a lot of time and a lot of energy and make it, making it something special. But you can go and pick a mural, tour, a route by artists, by location, by neighborhood. You plug it all in and you can print out a map and you can follow it on your, on your phone.

Everything's on your mobile application, so you can go do a mural tour and walk around for an hour just around R Street. You can walk around an hour just in, in Midtown. You can walk just J Street and see in between J Street and Jazz Alley and Improv Valley see 30 murals. So fantastic. From, from Old Sacramento all the way down.

So 

Jeff Holden: yeah. Well, we'll put. Each of those in the show notes so that somebody doesn't have to worry about where to find it. They'll [00:48:00] be there, they can just look and it'll be a, a, a quick click, 

David Sobon: you know, what else is on that website? An opportunity connect and let us know that you wanna volunteer, that you want to donate.

I did see that. That you wanna be, that you be part of this, this great vision that we have. Great part of the community and support art. So that's always very helpful too. 

Jeff Holden: David, our art's, absolute. We know from both research and practice, the art and color design can make a literal visceral difference in a space where they are applied.

You are changing our neighborhoods, our cities, our schools, and our community for the better with wide open walls. And thank you for that. Thank you for bringing color to our city in a whole different way. 

David Sobon: I've really enjoyed our interview. It's so great to be, to be together and, and you're welcome. That's probably the appropriate thing, but I am blessed just to be able to go out there and do it every day.

Ups and downs, just keep on pushing forward and, you know, keep on bringing in Art for all and uplifting schools. Well, the energy's contagious. 

Jeff Holden: It is. So, thank you.[00:49:00] 

Thank you for listening to the nonprofit podcast Network. I hope you enjoyed the episode. If what you heard moved you, please reach out to that organization and do what you can to help. If you like and appreciate what we're doing to support local nonprofits, please give us a positive review, subscribe and share.

If you're a nonprofit with an interest in participating in an episode, you can reach me at Jeff at hear me now studio.com. Once again, we're grateful for the businesses who have made this program possible. CAPTRUST fiduciary advice for endowments and foundations. You can find them in Sacramento, Roseville and Folsom captrust.com and Western Health Advantage, a full service healthcare plan for individuals, employer groups, and families.

Western [00:50:00] health.com.