Lights, Stage, Advocate: Theatre and Change (feat. Jenna Bainbridge)

In this captivating episode, Cassidy Huff and Jenna Bainbridge share their personal journeys as disabled performers, diving into the highs and challenges of life in the theatre world. They discuss Jenna’s path to Broadway in the groundbreaking musical Suffs, their shared love of musical theatre, and the inaccessibility that still pervades the entertainment industry. The conversation highlights the power of storytelling, representation on stage, and the resilience required to navigate a creative career as disabled women. Jenna offers heartfelt insights and advice for those aspiring to break barriers in the arts.

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Transcript

Hello and welcome to The View from Four Feet and Three Inches. I'm your host Cassidy Huff and I am a white woman. Today I have a white background because as you know, this is my virtual recording session background.

I have black glasses on, my hair is tied back, I have blue butterfly earrings and a blue and white patterned shirt and today, you guys know I have amazing guests on. I have one of my dear parasocial friends on from social media on today, Jenna Bainbridge. Hi Jenna.

Hi everybody. Hi Cassidy, thanks for having me!

Thank you so much for being here! Do you want to do a quick intro, like a visual description of yourself real quick? 

So, Jenna Bainbridge, she, her pronouns. I am a white woman with dark hair. I am a wheelchair user, though you can't see my wheelchair currently, and I am in my living room so there's lots of plants around me and it's my happy place.

I love it. I truly love it. Okay, I know this is like an existential question but I always start off with this. Who are you? What do you do? What are you all about? For those who don't know who you are. 

Yes, I am an actor. I am a disability rights advocate. And the things I am most passionate about are making the arts accessible and equitable and inclusive, especially for people with disabilities.

Okay, I feel like you glossed over like a really big part of yourself. You're currently on Broadway. 

Yes, I am currently on Broadway.

That's a small thing. 

Yeah, tiny, tiny. No, it's like, it's kind of surreal and it's, it's one of those weird things that like, you know, it, it was my goal for most of my life was to get to Broadway.

Yeah. 

And I'm here and it's, it's, what's so strange about it is that like it is so all-consuming, which like, I think we all kind of know as actors, like, you know, eight shows a week is no joke. And, you know, the, the bigger product, the bigger of a production you are in, the more of your life it, it consumes.

And that continues to be true on Broadway. But it also means that the days where I'm away from it, like I fully kind of disengage. So, you know, I don't have a show for another six, what is it? Five hours.

So I'm like, great. I'm not in the theater. I have my, I have my life today.

Yeah. You're like not in it. That's really interesting.

I'm currently on Broadway. I am in Suffs and it is incredible. We won two Tony awards this year in 2024. And- 

Congratulations! 

Thank you. And I'm, I'm just honored to be there.

It's an incredible show. And, you know, it is the first time ever in Broadway's history that a new musical has featured an actor who uses a wheelchair. 

We love it!

Thrilled to be there. I'm thrilled to be making history and just humbled by all of it. 

Yeah. Well, I don't know if you know this, but I got my BFA in musical theater. I went to, you're like, “yeah”!

Well, I have stalked you!.But like in a friendly way, in a nice way!

No, no, I know because I've done the same thing to you. So, um, we started following each other, like actually following each other, like a few months ago. And it was because I knew of you, but I was at the Rollettes experience and you came up in like, so many conversations that I was having.

And I was like, okay, like, it's, it's not a coincidence at this point. Like, I just need to follow her because so many people are talking about her. And like, then I followed you and we have like 80 mutual friends.

So I was like, yeah, but I got my, my bachelor's of fine arts in musical theater and went to AMDA.

You know, I have a lot of friends who went to AMDA and, you know, they're doing, they're doing great. So we all come from all kinds of paths.

There is no one way to get to the career you want. 

Yeah. And so my goal forever was Broadway.

Like that was my, that was where I saw myself. That was my goal. And it was really discouraging because I didn't see myself.

I'm pretty preaching to the choir right now, but I didn't see myself represented on stage or in any mass media as a disabled person. And so when Ali Stroker won the Tony, I was like, oh, maybe I can do that. And I was, what was that? 2016.

So I was, yeah, I was like a junior in high school. And so I'm curious, what brought you to the stage? Well, how did you, how did you get to where you are? 

That's a good question. 

That's a big question, I know. 

It's, it's funny that you bring up the Rollettes because I first encountered the Rollettes strangely at Disneyland. And I happened to just see, and like, I didn't know they were the Rolettes at the time.

I just saw this like, band of beautiful women in wheelchairs. And I was like, oh my God, this is the greatest thing. Exactly.

And I just like struck up a conversation with them in line, um, for one of the rides and, and, um, you know, I've been following them ever since, which is, which is funny, but you know, so one of the things I think the Rollettes has done for a lot of people is something that happened to me when I was about 12 years old, which is, you know, representation. The Rollettes shows people that, you know, you can use a wheelchair and still be a fierce dancer. Right?

And have an incredible community of disabled people around you. Um, and for me, that experience was at Family Theatre Company. And Family, for those who don't know, is a theater company in Denver, Colorado, where I grew up, um, that hires entirely actors with disabilities and the whole range and spectrum of disabilities. Um, so it created a really beautiful community for me.

Um, and a community that was, you know, you, you learned both the, the craft of, you know, acting and performance and, you know, all of the, the, the hoity-toity like artistic side of it, but also you learned how to advocate for yourself and for others, how to accommodate for yourself, how to voice those needs, um, in a way that, you know, meant that you were able to get the accommodation you needed, um, and stand up for other people too, right. Stand up being a metaphor, but, um, you know, you were able to be there for others in a way that was just so natural. It was just, you know, learning how to work as a group to achieve access.

Um, and working at Family, I started performing there when I was 12 and, um, continued, you know, my, my last show at Family was, oh gosh, it was 2019 probably. Um, you know, so not, not that long ago. Yeah.

Not that long ago. And honestly, like I, I, I still am involved in Family. I would still be doing shows there if I still lived in Colorado, but, um, you know, I, I also, I recently performed there.

I recorded their curtain speech for their performance of a chorus line this year. Like I'm still, Family is my, my first home. It's, um, you know, the place where I realized that I could do this for real.

I could, I could be an actor. Um, it's also the place where like, I met my husband, like it's, it's an incredible, incredible place. And I think that every, every person in the world needs community and needs a place where they belong and needs a place where they feel like they don't have to hide any part of themselves.

They can ask for what they need. And I think for people with disabilities, it's really important to find a community of other disabled people. Um, and especially other disabled people that have a similar passion to you.

And so, you know, I think the Rollettes gives that for so many people, Family gives that for so many people. Um, and I, I, I, I'm always excited to hear about more places like that, more companies like that all over the world. But I think it's so important to find that community because, you know, learning how to advocate for yourself, but also just like learning what you, what you might want.

You have to have other disabled people around you to learn that. Like, even if it's just little things like, you know, what angle do I want my wheels at? Like, you know, when I go to a fitting with a doctor, I'm talking to a non-disabled person who doesn't have personal experience using a wheelchair. And I might ask a question like, “hi, yeah, I want to, you know, dance and play sports.

What, you know, what, what do I need?” And they kind of go like, “Oh, well, some people like this or this”, but if you don't talk to somebody who has actually like played sports in their wheelchair, you're not really able to figure out like, well, do I want a two degree tilt or do I want like, carbon fiber wheels? Or do I want like, there's so many things that just for like the basics of what is my assistant device going to be like? But then the bigger questions of like, you know, I never knew that I could play tennis in my wheelchair until I met another wheelchair user who played tennis, right? Like, it kind of opens up the possibilities of like, how to, how to just exist in the world and to get the access you need and deserve, but also like the fun things and the community and, you know, finding other people who relate to like how annoying it is when, you know, the police barricade off the curb cut during parades, right? Like, 

Oh my God! please! I could talk forever about non-disabled people just not thinking about things just like that.

Just being like: “Hey, wait, wait, wait, I need that!” What are you doing? I got a, I did a Q and A, um, post on my story yesterday. Uh, ‘cause I'm filming a YouTube video this week.

That's all about like, answering questions about dwarfism because dwarfism month and I have dwarfism. So, you know, um, so I was like, so timely! And, um, so I didn't want people to think that like, I'm just talking about a disability that I don't have.

Um, but, but yeah, I, uh, so I did this Q and A thing and one of the questions was really good. And it was like, what are some things infrastructure wise that you wish were more catered to your specific disability or like, people with dwarfism? And it's things like that where it's like not, I don't know.

‘Cause it's like, it's not infrastructure. Like it's not permanent, but at the same time, it's just things to be aware of that disabled people or non-disabled people shouldn't do, you know? Um, like I have, at Disneyland specifically, actually there are, you see, there are, um, this just happened to me recently. There are taller sinks and then there are shorter sinks and I use the shorter one, obviously!

And all these like, tall people are like bent over the shorter one. Go use the tall one! Go use the tall one!

Like, what are you doing?!  It's just, it's things like that where it's like, my thing isn't infrastructure. ‘Cause I don't want things to be inaccessible for other people. Right? I don't want to discriminate against other people or average height people, but I would like just, just non-disabled people to be more aware, more aware of certain things.

And like, maybe don't block off curb cuts for parades.

Right. Yeah. 

Like maybe don't put the, you know, extra outdoor dining, like on the ramp, right? Like on the side, blocking the whole sidewalk, right? 

Like maybe don't put a dumpster in the disabled spot, you know? Like, little things.

Well and even just, you know, little things like the table that is marked as wheelchair accessible.

Like if you don't need that table, don't use it. Right? Yeah. Like I, it's, it's also-

Don't sit there.

So I also run a consulting company called Donsultability and we work with theater companies primarily to like, help them become more aware of, of exactly what we're talking about. Right. It's like, here's, we do like anti-ableism trainings, but we also will like, walk through spaces with them and be like, you know, here are the things that you can do for free or for very, very cheap that will make your space more accessible for everyone, right? For, for your artists, for your employees, for your visitors.

And, you know, sometimes we also give them big things like, hi, when you do a renovation, you need to put in an ADA compliant bathroom, right? Like those big things, but there's also little things like, you know, hey, move this trash can and also replace this trash can with one that isn't a foot pedal trash can. Right. Like things that, you know, the free solution is.

I encountered that in my doctor's office the other day and I was like, are you kidding? 

It is my favorite thing. My favorite thing. I mean, biggest pet peeve, but it is a thing I see the most is going into like the ADA bathroom and the only trash can is a foot pedal.

It's just so-

So many things. I think people just don't even think about that. Like, yay, we put a trash can in the bathroom! And you're like, but can I use the trash can?

No, wait, wait, wait. But can I use it though?

And half the time it also like, blocks the swing of the door. Right. Where it's like, you know, you can only open the door like halfway because the bath, the trash can is like behind the door.

There's so many things like that where I'm just like, okay, let's think about this for a moment. Enter this space. And you know.

Sometimes I want to put them in like a horrible, like, hospital wheelchair and make them go in there just for like five minutes and be like, can you easily maneuver? Okay. Then you need to change some things. 

Yeah.

And it's so funny because it's equally like the amount of people who come up to me and they're like, “Oh my gosh, wow. You're working so hard. I broke my ankle once.

So I totally understand. ‘Cause I used a wheelchair.” 

I literally just had a whole podcast episode about this that wasn't even on my podcast, but it was a non-disabled person that had me on her podcast.

And she was like, it was, it was, um, oh, it was about Halloween costumes and ‘cause we're filming this in October. And, um, it was about Halloween costumes and how a lot of non-disabled people will dress up as disabled people. Um, and so we were talking about that whole issue, right? Whether it's kids, whether it's adults, it's kind of an iffy thing.

And so we were talking about that whole thing. And I was like, yeah, it's like, they're putting a cost- like they're putting a part of my identity on as a costume. And that's the problem that I have.

And so we were having this whole conversation and I was like, yeah, I get a lot of people that come up to me and they're like, “I broke my leg once. And so I know what it's like. I was in a chair for two months and I get it.” I'm like, “Oh no, two months?!”

But also there's parts where I'm like, it's so frustrating. ‘Cause I'm like, no, you don't, you don't get what it's like to be disabled. You also certainly don't understand what it's like, like culturally, because you had a temporary disability, you are not being treated as disabled.

You are not understanding that cultural difference and that bias. 

Everybody can see the cast on your leg, therefore they're going to treat you differently. 

Right. So like, there's that side of it.

But also part of me is like, you know, I'm going to take the positive for a moment. Yes. You broke your leg.

So you understand that the world isn't accessible. So maybe we should make it accessible! Like everybody will encounter disability during their life, whether it's temporary,

Or become- and become disabled.

Exactly. If you're lucky, you become disabled because the other solution is you die before that happens. So like, shouldn't we, and we have all these euphemisms now for like, making things accessible.

Like there's, um, there's a new one in, uh, for, for home building, they call it like aging in place. And it's like euphemism, euphemism for like, you can become disabled and still live in your home. And I'm like, that should just be every building.

What if you ARE disabled?

But every building should just be like, accessible so that if you are disabled, you can live there without making, you know, major accommodations. And if you become disabled, you can continue to live there. Like that should be every building.

Yeah. Agreed. So how are you finding the, um, accessibility in New York City? 

Ugh! New York! 

I have a love hate relationship with New York City.

I love it. I love it so, so, so, so much. I can't explain the feeling, I've never lived on the East coast.

I've lived on the West coast my entire life, but every time I go to New York city, I feel like I'm home. I don't know another way to describe it, but then I go outside and then I'm like, this city was not built for me.

I say, I always say that New York is openly hostile towards people with disabilities.

That's a good way of putting it. 

But like, with that being said there, there is something like, kind of helpful about just knowing it's going to suck. Right.

‘Cause you like brace yourself for it. So like, and then you're pleasantly surprised if it doesn't suck. 

And then you're like, “Oh, it's not that bad!”

I feel like it was, I grew up in Denver and Denver is super accessible for the most part. You know, but it meant that when you did face inaccessibility, it was like a jump scare and you like, you weren't prepped for it. Like New York, you're like always walking through brace, like looking over your shoulder and you're like ready for it.

Um, and Denver, you get like lulled in this false sense of security. You'd be like, Oh, this has been so great. Look at me.

I got everywhere I needed to go today. And then like, you know, suddenly the train isn't working and there are no accessible options, 

The one accessible subway stop. And you're like, great! Elevator’s broken.

And so New York is definitely where it's like,

Okay. Yeah. You just know only 30% of the, you know, subway stations have an elevator and of those elevators, probably half are working at any given time.

Um, and it's, I never thought I would live in New York because of that. I, I was always, you know,

Yeah.

It just doesn't feel like the right fit for me.

Like, if I'm not going to be able to easily get to and from where I'm going, why would I live there? And, you know, I grew up in Denver where I could just drive to where I was going, park in the accessible spot, you know, walk into a flat building. It's on the, on the first floor built after, you know, the passing of the ADA, like, I had kind of gotten used to all of that. Um, but I've, I've learned, I've learned to really love New York, um, and learned how to make it work for me, but I do always have to be braced for, you know, even though day to day, 

Ableism.

Exactly.

And like day to day, I know how I'm going to get home, you know, all of that, but then there's just gonna be that random day where there's a parade and there are barricades blocking all the curb cuts. And there's going to be that random day where like they're, uh, repaving the street that I park on and there are no other nearby accessible parking garages, right? Like that happens. Um, and you kind of have just, but because I'm always braced for it to suck, like I'm always thinking of backup plans.

Um, which, I don't know, it's not a great way to live, but like, at least I always do have the backup plan in the back of my mind. 

And I feel like that's a very disabled experience. 

It is, it is!

Nobody else does that. 

Like, all of us have backup plans. 

Everyone else just goes like, oh, that didn't work.

I'll pivot. And we're like, oh my God, how do I pivot?! I don't have the balance to pivot! 

I, wait a second.

I can't, I literally cannot pivot. Um, I mean, all of us have, whether it's physically or like, I have that in my routine, right? Where like I, uh, last week I had an appointment that like, knocked me down for like a day and a half. I was out.

I was in chronic pain the whole time. I had two vaccines, one in each arm. And I'm the person who like, has adverse reactions to every vaccine I've ever had.

It doesn't mean I'll stop getting them. It means that-

But you know, 

It's just, I know what to expect when I get them. And so I was prepping for that a week in advance so that all of my, because I knew I was going to get two vaccines.

So all of my work I could do from the couch. So, but it's, it's that kind of thing, right? So it's like not necessarily pivoting physically where it's like, Oh, that street's blocked. Gotta go the other way.

You know, gotta go the long way. Sometimes it's literally like, okay, I know I have this appointment a week in advance. How can I schedule my work around this? So that I can still get stuff done and that like my needs are being met and like I have, you know, a dog and a cat, their needs are being met.

But also like, I'm getting, I'm getting work done while also taking care of my disabled body. 

I have to mentally prepare for physically preparing, which is a different, I, the other day, I couldn't park in my normal parking garage. And you know, so I have my, my, my pivot.

Yay, I'm going to go to this other parking garage that I've, I've used before. And, you know, I've only used it like twice, right? It's my backup. I rarely have to use it.

And so it's my backup!

It’s plan B!

And so I go to this other parking garage, which, you know, it was like one block away. And after the show, I like left my theater, which is on 45th street. And, um, I was heading to the parking garage and, you know, the parking garage is on like the South side of the street.

And so I, you know, have to plan ahead because of curb cuts. And so I moved to the South side of the street and I happened to be walking right by, um, another theater where Moulin Rouge is playing. And, you know, I'm having just like a normal day.

I'm like, great. My day's over. I'm getting to my car.

I'm going to go home. And like, right next to the parking garage is where the Moulin Rouge stage door is. And I'm like, you know, I have to be on this side of the street.

I planned ahead to be on this side of the street. I guess I didn't have to be, I could have like walked past it, but that's more spoons and whatever. So I'm on the South side of the street and I get stuck in the Moulin Rouge stage door.

And like, in New York, the way that they do it is they'll like, put these little barricades on the sidewalk so that the audience can't swarm the stage doors. There's like, you know, a barricade between the actors and the audience, which is safe. But the thing that was new that hadn’t been there the last time that I had had to park over here was they were also doing construction.

And so there was like, this big, like the scaffolding was also on the sidewalk. And so it meant that like, there was the barrier for the audience and then like, you know, three feet and then like the, the pillars for the scaffolding. Right.

And I'm stuck and nobody would move. Like, and I'm, I'm with my husband and he is like, yelling. Thank God I was still- if I hadn’t been with him-

I honestly like, if I had been alone, I don't know. I don't know what I would have done. But he's like yelling, trying to get people to move and physically like touching people, asking them to move.

And literally like, I get stuck between, there's like scaffolding on one side of me, barrier on the other side of me and a person just standing there staring at me. And I was like, “I need you to move.” And she was like, she literally looks at me.

She's like, “but I need this autograph.” And I was like, “I need you to move.”

I'm in Suffs, do you want me to sign it? 

I don't even know what to do. And then like, I see that there's like a cop in the street just like, and he just like, looked at me. He was like, “where are you trying to go?” And I was like, “there!” like who cares where I'm trying to go.

I'm stuck. And so like, I can't get around. I literally tell this person standing in front of me,

I was like, “I need you to take a step to your left and switch places with me. I need you to do-si-do with me. Like that's all I need.”

And she's like, “but I don't want to lose my spot. I don't care about your spot. I'm not trying to take your spot even,” which is like, that shouldn't matter.

But like, “I'm not trying to take your spot. I'm trying to get out of the way, trying to just leave”. And I couldn't.

And finally, like I get through that area. And then once again, I met with more people. And then there's just a planter in front of me too, like on the sidewalk because New York.

And I just, I start like, hyperventilating and I'm just like, there's so many people around me and I'm in my wheelchair and I can't move. And finally I just started crying and I just like, hopped the curb, did a wheelie, hopped the curb into the street. Because I was like, that is the safer option right now is for me in my wheelchair to get into the street.

And like, I finally get around this stage door and you know, this police officer has done nothing. Like also they're all still there. They never moved the barriers.

Like the whole thing was just awful. And I just like finally get past it. And I just start like, hyperventilating and crying.

And I was like, it's such a simple thing to be like, cool. I'm leaving work to go home. And in the one city block between me and my car, because of the man-made barrier plus scaffolding and humans, like all of which are movable.

Like, those barriers, I can move them in my chair with one hand. Like they don't weigh much. You know, they're theoretically a security for every single stage door to be able to move them.

There is the police officer standing in the street. There is the, you know, hundreds of people standing around me. And like, I couldn't, I couldn't go anywhere.

My solution was go into the street. Like, and thank God I was with another person and my husband, like, you know, made sure that the cars saw me and I was able to, right. But it's just like, that shouldn't ever be the solution.

No. And nobody thinks about that. Right?

Because like you said, people are like, oh, it's 5pm. Time to go home. You know, I'm just gonna head to my car and that's it. Like an able-bodied person could have fully navigated.

Or they would be able to like, you know, walk during the, it's like one foot between the scaffolding and the curb. Right. So they could walk on the outside of the scaffolding and kind of like step in and out of the curb as needed.

Like, and you don't even think about that. 

Right. No.

I get comments all the time being like, because I, I film those situations and people have commented and being like, oh, so you're just going looking for inaccessibility. 

No, it finds me. 

I'm actually not.

They find me. They find me. And I'm like, no, the reason I post about those kinds of things isn't because I'm trying to complain.

It's because I'm showing people exactly that. You could have navigated through that no problem.

I and others like me, I and others like me can't do that. We, we have to have plan A, plan B, plan C, plan D and so on all the way to plan Z if we have to. And you know, like, that is what I'm trying to show people.

So that maybe an able-bodied person would be in a similar situation later and be like, oh, I remember that one video I saw from that small girl on the internet. And she told me that like, this is kind of like that situation and they'll just move whatever needs to, even if there's not a disabled person there, they'll have that. I like, I want to be that little voice in the back of their head.

That's like, Ooh, what if there is a disabled person that comes later and like, you could have been the change. 

Right. ‘Cause-

Or like you could have been the solution!

‘Cause like what I needed in that moment was like one, I don't love how we do stage dooring in New York. Like the sidewalks aren't enough to accommodate this. Um, 

No. 

But you know, so that's, that's a bigger problem.

But like what I needed in that moment was for there to be more space between the barriers and the scaffolding, right. Or a sign at the end of the street that says, just don't come this way. Right.

Like, Literally, which that, that shouldn't be the option, but like it would have helped if I had known. 

Yeah. And those solutions, 

I would have crossed the street. 

And those and those solutions don't cost millions of dollars, right? They cost five seconds of your time. That's it. No money. No money needed to be involved. A samaritan could have seen your problems getting through that crowd and helped you and your husband and moved the barriers, did they? No. No, they didn't.

So it's, it's about making non-disabled people more aware, right? And so I think that is where education comes in. And I've, and I've always said and so this is why people like uh, like my videos, this is why people hate my videos where I educate people about like, here are the inaccessibilities that I faced today. But that's also why people like my videos that I post about those things and so I've always said that like, education is the key to removing the fear um out of disability. And not only that, but also combating ableism because what you faced was ableism. And nobody was doing it to you. And it wasn't intentional ableism, but it was still, it was still structural ableism. And so I think um I don't know. I feel like there were a lot of solutions in that moment, that I'm sorry you weren't met with. 

Education is just the first step to learn to like, learning what you don't know. And you know, I understand why people like, come back with backlash of like, they don't want to be taught because no one wants to feel like they're wrong, right?  No one wants to feel like they've hurt somebody and so it does feel like kind of a natural inclination to be like Well, I didn't do it.

Why are you mad at me? Or you know any time that you feel like you are in the wrong, you can either lean into that and be like well how can I do better? Or you like, get on your back foot and you're like, how dare you tell me I'm wrong? 

Right.

Right? And both are just kind of human instincts. But the more we're presented with it the more we start to change our minds the more we start to become aware the more we are interested in engaging and without those first steps nobody would ever know they were wrong, right? Like, if we were all just you know, quietly just existing and not pointing out ableism, everyone would go, “Great, the world is working!” But the world isn't working. 

Yeah.

The world is working for you, maybe. But the world is not working for me. 

Yeah for you. But it's not working for us, frankly. And it has never worked for us. That's the thing I think people don't realize is they're like, “oh well back in my day, we didn't have as many disabled people in the world!”

And it's like you did we were just locked away. We were just institutionalized. So like, we were, we were there we were just hidden away from society. There were ugly laws preventing-  

Right or if we were visible, it wasn't recorded to history, right? And that's like another thing that we talk about, or that I've thought about a lot with Suffs is like, I am a disabled person using a modern wheelchair in a story set in 1913 and-

Right. Yeah, that's really interesting. 

But what I take away from it is It's not that disabled people weren't at those protests. It's not that there weren't disabled suffragists. It's that there were! There were! There were so many we just don't know their names. And-

We don't know their names and we don't know their stories.

Exactly. Exactly. And-

Because no one cared.No one cared to ask.

No one committed it down to history. And like, that is true for every single historical movement, right?

We were there and everyone is represented in these movements. But we just don't necessarily have the proof of it. that doesn't mean you weren't there, doesn't mean you weren't part of it. And I think people with disabilities in particular get written out and whether it's you know, committed to history in you know, a different way of like, they're not saying: “Oh, she had a disability.” They say like, “Oh, she had a weakness”, right? Like, they'll say it in these weird like funny euphemisms where you're like, so she was disabled? Like that's what we're saying?

So what you're telling me is she was disabled.

Right. It'll be like, “she had an affliction”. You're like, was that an affliction a limp?

Of the body? Or…

Right, like, what was this affliction? We're just gonna say it in this like, you know, very polite way. 

Was she blind?

Exactly. They will also say things like, you know, “she’d never- she'd never seen well. And you're like, so she was blind? 

So she was blind. 

Is that what you mean? Like but we don't know! 

So she needed glasses?

Right. We don't know if it was like she needed glasses, she was legally blind, like, is this a metaphor? We don't know from our history books necessarily. But like people with disabilities have always been here. Have always wanted- we've always, yeah, we've always wanted to- 

But you've never seen us.

Exactly. So you're like, oh, well you didn't exist in the 80s. You're like what?! Like well, 

Wait a second! That wasn’t that long ago! 

Disabled people were invented with the passing of the ADA, obviously.

Obviously. No, we just spawned actually. There was no-

Um, yeah, we just appeared. 

Yeah It's like oh we had to put ramps on buildings?!

And then we just started complaining about things.

And that’s when wheelchairs were invented. You're like what?! 

Right.

It wasn't like the 17, 1600s. It was-

No. No. 

It's 1977. Is when that happened. First time. Or 1990.

1990 for the ADA.

So I usually leave this until the last question. But I'm just interested in what your response will be because every single person's is different. Um, I've had a lot of really powerful disabled women on the podcast. Which I love! Which I love! And so, there was one disabled man. I'm, sorry. Um, but the majority are disabled women. And so my main demographic on social media, because i'm a social media activist, as you know. And my main demographic on all of my platforms are young girls mainly. Um, usually 13 to 18 Ish, so, you know young teenagers. Some of them are my age like 18 to 24, but most of them are younger. And I get a lot of questions.

Um like: “i'm disabled and and i'm really struggling with being confident in my body” and “I'm disabled and I'm really struggling with wanting to be in the arts, but I'm really confused on like how to get started” or I um “I don't see myself represented and so i'm really discouraged” and um, a lot of it is, some of it is performance related, but a lot of it is confidence and being comfortable in your own body. And loving yourself enough to put yourself out there. And front and center. And so I was wondering what your advice is for those younger kids with disabilities. 

Oh, it's such a big question because like, and we've all been there we've all been that kid wasn't confident in ourselves.

Who wanted to be seen. 

Yeah. And wanted to be loved and wanted to be accepted and appreciated. Um, so I think that that's actually a great thing to realize is that like, you know when you're young and you're looking up to these people you're like, “oh my gosh, they have so much confidence.” We once felt that way too. Like, so this is not a unique experience. 

We were there. Yeah.

Um, I think for me a lot of my confidence, you know, some of it was from other people it was you know, having family and friends that you know would boost me up. Um, but it's also trusting them that you know, what they're saying is true, right? When they tell me, you know, you are smart, you are capable, you are strong. That I believe those things. I internalize those things.

I am those things. Yeah um, and you know sometimes it's hard to believe that when someone tells you that you can do something. You're like, “oh, can I?” Like, trust the people around you.

Um, because people see you a hell of a lot better than you see yourself. Um, it's really hard to see yourself accurately. You know, one of the things that for me was like, seeing my friends who I thought were just the most beautiful,, strong capable people on the planet. And realizing that they had insecurities too. Like it blows your mind. You're like “How?! How?! You are incredible. You're the most incredible human I've ever seen. You should believe it!”

Yeah,

So, you know. 

Yeah.

It's hard to see yourself. It's hard to analyze yourself. 

It’s true.

Um, But you know, for me it was also like even if I didn't necessarily believe it of myself, I knew that I wanted to be an example for somebody else. So sometimes it was just a fake it till you make it. Where I was like, i'm going to pretend like I have this figured out when I go into this audition. I'm gonna have the confidence that I need to have because like, I might not have it, but if I pretend like I have it then maybe they'll believe it. And you'll be surprised how often that works. 

It works a lot actually. 

Like truly, fake it till you make it and the weird thing about it Is that you then you start to believe it yourself, right? You know, what's that saying of like, dress for the job you want not the job you have. Like, it actually does work though. Like, if I put on the character for myself of like, I believe in myself. I am strong.

I am confident. I start to believe it over time.

Yeah, 

And so I find that just like incredibly helpful. And then a friend of mine recently for my birthday. Um, she introduced me to this tradition that she has where everybody stands in a circle and they tell you, the birthday person, something specific that they love about you. 

I love that!

That would just make me. 

Oh my god, I was crying the entire time. I was a mess!

That would make me cry. Yeah.

We don't tell each other those things often enough. So like, that's something that i've also recently started doing is like, Wwen you notice something specific about somebody that you admire, tell them! 

Say it!

Tell them! And also, tell yourself. And I think that that's harder for us to do but like, you know, let's say that you just finished a big project for school, or for work, or whatever and you did well. Congratulate yourself! Tell yourself- 

Take yourself out on a date!

Exactly and tell yourself like you absolutely crushed that! Right?!

Yeah. Good job!

And something specific, right?! It's not just like you did a good job. It's like, you know osmething specific about that task that you did well that you felt confident in.

Don't just move on to the next thing.

Exactly. I do this for every audition that i've ever done. When I leave the audition, I tell myself something I did well and something I can improve upon because like, I always want to congratulate myself.

I don't want to be too hard on myself. Like, we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves. But also I want to learn and grow. So if you leave the audition and say like I'm going to start with the positive, I did this well. That was hard. I put myself out there. I did this well, right? Like, I really crushed my diction! My diction was great during that audition!

My pronunciation was amazing!

It can be small like that and then something I can improve upon like, you know, I feel like I could maybe have warmed up more before that audition, right?

I didn't quite hit that high note exactly like I wanted to. I could have warmed up more.

Even if it's just getting into the building, I feel like that’s a win.

Absolutely. I got out of bed.

Even if you're like, you know, and like I figured out the inaccessibilities once I was there. Like, the elevator wasn't working and I figured it out and I got in the room.

Next time, I know how to get into that building. Like, every single challenge can be something that you learn from, that you grow from. And like, we need to celebrate those victories. 

A hundred percent. 

And also like, It's not a matter of like, being cocky. Being like, “I did a great job!” It's a matter of like, celebrating the wins and also looking forward to-

Yes.

And how can I grow from this? How can I become, you know, even better at this? Like, it's a little bit of both every single time. 

My favorite thing after auditions is getting myself a little treat too. That's my favorite thing. I once had an instructor, um, his name is Tom O’Lleary. I love this man, dearly. And he said one thing that we should be doing after auditions is to auditions, callbacks, if you got the job, whatever. Celebrate yourself by yes, like affirming that like yes, I did a good job.

I did this. This is something I can work on. But also doing something that will make your heart happy. Whether that's, you know, stopping on the way home at your favorite coffee shop and getting yourself that latte, or you know, that croissant that you really love. Or whether that's going home and making it. Or you know, baking that thing that you really love, or reading that book, or crocheting. I crochet a lot.

Me too!

You do?! Oh my gosh, we have to talk about that later. Uh I knew we were gonna be great friends. You know, or like crocheting or going to the yarn store and buying yourself more yarn! That's my favorite thing to do. um, You know small things, small things that that really affirm like, I did the best I could possibly do today. And like, that was my best, and I showed up, and I did the thing. And I did it. you know? And like, now I get a little treat!

Because auditioning is hard, right? And like, it's hard in any industry. Like interviewing is hard. And for acting, we have to do it constantly. You know, the grind.

At least once a week. It's a whole thing. 

It's constant and it's exhausting and it's painful and it's, you know, it's all of the emotions. 

But we love it. We keep doing it. We put ourselves through it all the time.

it's also a different skill set from actually performing.

We keep going back. 

And so like, every time that you can reward yourself for that like, it makes it a little less painful, right? You're like, oh I have an audition! 

And it also reminds you that like, you love doing it. Because that's why you're doing it. 

Why would you do it?

Like I have to remind myself of that all the time. I'm like, I love this. This is why I'm doing it. I don't know what's happening with my audio. I love it. And like, that's why you should be doing something, right?

And so reminding yourself that that's why you just did that hard thing.

And it's not just about the hustle. It's not just about like, well I'm auditioning to get that job that I want, right? It's I'm auditioning because that's part of this profession and once I'm done with it, I get to go take a bubble bath, and isn't that nice? Like, I have something to look forward to. 

Yeah. 

Because I put myself out there, you know, I get to reward myself for that.

Yeah, as you should. My mic has stopped working so we're gonna stop using it. 

Great!

Isn't that great?! Isn't that just, 

Love when that happens! 

I really love when that happens. But whatever, we're here now. Yeah, and so I think that rewarding yourself is really important and really affirming because I feel like as humans, we're very physical beings and so, you know, like, out of sight, out of mind kind of thing? When like, you know, you did a good job, but like you don't reward yourself for the good job that you did. Even if it's like, okay, now I'm gonna go decompress with a hot shower That's what I'm gonna do. Like, no matter what it is, like, just treat yourself, reward yourself. Tell yourself you did a good job. Pick one thing that you can improve on, like, 

Yeah, but not in the moment. And also like, even if you leave an audition you're like crushed, right? You're like, Oh, that did not go well. 

Yeah,

Like, honestly still, focus on the positive. And I keep a running list of every audition that I do. Yeah, just for like, I like data. Data helps me. So like, being able to see,

I have a whole spreadsheet.

Me too! Like, being able to look at my excel spreadsheet and be like, you know, it's color coded for like what did I book? What did I get a call back for? But I also have information like what materials did I prep? What did I wear? 

Right. 

And I just give myself like, basic notes on like, how I felt like it went and.

Yeah.

What was really strange for me was realizing that the auditions that I was like “I crushed that!” I never book those auditions. 

You never heard back. 

Never.

It's always the one where you're like, “that was literally that was terrible.”

Yes, like the ones where I leave and I'm like, “I don't know, I don't think that was good.”

You were like, “I cracked on that note and I started in the wrong key, and I told the pianist the wrong thing.” 

Right! Right. Or you're like, “the vibes were super off. I went in and they just like, didn't even look at me.” Yeah, like, those are always the ones that you're like, oh I booked that?! I booked that, really? And the auditions where you're like, “oh my gosh, that was amazing. Best audition ever.” You never hear back from. I've gotten very good at just like, kind of forgetting what I auditioned for. 

Yeah.

Because like I find it healthier- 

They're like “call back” and I’m like, “Did I audition for that?” 

Right! And you're like, it's like a nice little surprise when you get that call back. But like, I never, you know, with very few exceptions, of course, there's those things that you get an audition for that you say you’re like, super excited about. But like for the most part, as soon as I audition, I just try to memory hole it. Because it just it's safer for me to be like, it's a pleasant surprise when I hear back. 

Yeah, I think what people don't realize is like the saying in the industry of like you get a thousand no’s before you get one yes. Is very- 

So accurate. 

That is very true. But most of your no’s are not actual verbal no’s. You just don't hear. I do a lot of voiceover work and a lot of voiceover auditions and the thing about voiceover is it literally takes like two years. Because they have to animate the whole thing. And so I auditioned for this one project back in 2021. It was the first ever project that I auditioned for with my agent. And I auditioned for it, and I never heard back. And then last year, two weeks after I graduated, they were like, “hey, we actually really liked you. Could you come in? Do this part real quick.” 

You’re like, that was years ago! 

Yeah, I guess. I was like wait, what project? And then my agent was like yeah, hang on. And like she didn't even, like, she had to like, go back

Right. 

And find it because she was like “what?” And so we eventually figured it out.

It was the very very first project. It was like October of 2021 and they reached out in June of 2023. It was so strange.

Yep. 

And I was like, “yeah, I guess I can do that”. Like, I didn't even remember.

It's such a hard balance to be like, you know, you don't want to like, you don't want to kill the hope. But also like, it's in your best interest to kind of kill the hope. Because sometimes it is three years later. 

Maybe I'm just gonna shove it into the back of my brain and just never remember.

Yeah, I always go with the like, you know, I just want to be pleasantly surprised so I always move on and just be like, “oh well!” And then if they call me again three years later like, “Oh that's nice!” I'd rather get that little like, you know, adrenaline bump like, get a little happy reminder than be like, you know, pining over it for those three years.

Yeah, exactly. I just forget about it. I'm really good at being like “what?” 

Agreed. 

And then I have to go back to my spreadsheet and be like “hang on”. 

Which is why you keep the spreadsheet also like all the change like, the titles change like, you're like, “but this was called spirited when I first auditioned and now it's called ghostly” And you're like, “Oh, it's the same, it's the same thing.”

“Oh, it's the same one. It's the same.”

It's been three years has a new title. It's an entirely new team. Same thing.

It's entirely- it's been rewritten, actually. It's just- yeah, it's really interesting how fast paced our Industry is. Everything moves really fast.

Sometimes then other times real slow.

Yeah.

I'm like hello? And what about that one thing?

And like I tend to do more theater. And theater is interesting because it is so so so thought out in advance. Like, 

Yeah, 

You know, there's auditions right now for things happening like next fall, right? Like, a lot of the time, generally, you're auditioning for something six months out. So you're like trying to plan your life. In Denver, whenever theaters would announce their season, once again, I like spreadsheets. I would put every single show Into my spreadsheet for all of the theaters so I could figure out the matrix of like, okay. So if I book this show for fall, and it closes, you know, November 2nd. Okay, great, this show at this other theater company starts rehearsing November 3rd, right? Like, you start doing this whole like dream scenario based off like, what I book, what's still available to me, and it's so interesting to be like, so far out. Six months out, ten months out. 

Yeah. 

And it's also the interesting thing about Broadway. You know, we have an open-ended run. So Suffs-

Could close tomorrow, could close-

Exactly. And you know, the longest running show on Broadway right now has been open for over 20 years, right? Like, you know, Phantom is the longest running show of all time on Broadway and it ran for 35 years, right? Now, none of those actors were still with it 35 years later. But It is an interesting thing that like they were all able to leave whenever it it made sense for them, right? Contracts ending, new offers, whatever. But if you think about like, oh a show could run for 35 years and in theory, you could be with it for any number of those years. Like, it's such a funny thing to think about like I'm looking ahead now to the future and being like, but I don't know. Like,

Yeah, 

I don't know. 

I know it's really hard to plan your life. My boyfriend and I are always like well, if I get that one role in the middle of July in New Mexico, then maybe you can… 

Right? 

And then we're like, right but then when would my breaks be? Okay well… 

Exactly! 

So it's like always, constantly trying to plan your life around these and then guess what? I didn't get it. 

Yeah, exactly. 

So we don't even actually have to worry about it. 

You're like, but if I get it we could like, take a vacation. Right! 

I know. People are always like, why are you so stressed about the future? And I'm like because 

I'm always in future planning.

Because that's quite literally that's the industry that I'm in. I can't not be because this thing films in Toronto, Canada, 

Right. Right. And like, I have to make sure my passport is good In case I get this because I won't find out that I got it until two weeks before and that's not enough time.

Yes, and then I gotta go!

Right, so like, yes, I'm looking at the fact that my passport expires in 2028 to figure out, I'm backdating it. When do I need to go get it renewed? So in case I audition for something that happens to film in Canada like, this is the life of an actor that nobody sees.

This is wild. I'm so glad that you understand! 

We are planning six months out-

All my family, none of them are in the industry. So they're like why are you doing that? 

I also like, if I don't have my calendar I'm so screwed. Because I'm like, 

Oh, yeah, 

I don't know what tomorrow holds. I planned it three months ago! 

Don't know what day it is. That's why I was shocked that I messaged you like two weeks ago, And I was like, “can you be on my podcast in two weeks” and you were like, “yeah,” 

Yeah. 

And I was like, that was shocking. 

It was like perfect timing. It was like the universe aligned for that moment like hey, we're both free on Tuesday!

Yeah, but then we had to cancel because originally last week we were supposed to do it, but we both got an audition on the same day. 

Yep, last minute.

For two completely different things I guarantee you. But-

Because we also live on opposite coasts. 

Yeah, and we had to get stuff done and so we couldn't do it last week and so then fates aligned this week again! 

Yeah.

That was magical 

Thanks universe. Thanks for looking out.

Yeah, thanks! Jenna, thank you so much for being on my show. 

Thank you. This has been so much fun.

I really appreciate you having me. 

Thank you, okay, where can people find you? 

You can find me @bainbridgejenna on Instagram. I try to be active on social media, but I'm not very good at it.

That’s fair.

Yeah and come see Suffs! We are playing at the Music Box Theater in New York. And it's really good. It's funny. It's engaging. It'll also get you pumped for the election. So and it is streaming on all major streaming services right now.

It is also for your consideration if you are a Grammy voter. Listen to our album! Uh, yeah, Suffs the Musical.

Wow! Fancy! 

Yeah! 

Okay. Well, thank you so so much for watching and listening to this episode of The View From Four Feet and Three Inches, I'm your host Cassidy Huff. Please make sure to like, subscribe, comment. Give me a five star rating depending on where you're watching or listening from. Make sure to follow me @casshuff on all other social media because I do post every single day on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook reels and YouTube. I have a YouTube vlog that comes out every Wednesday and a podcast episode that comes out every Sunday. Thank you so much for watching and listening and we will see you next time.

Bye!