S4E2 - MP Tim Farron on Bridging the Healthcare Gap in Rural Communities

In this episode of AXREM Insights, hosts Melanie Johnson and Sally Edgington interview Liberal Democrat MP Tim Farron, discussing his work advocating for improved healthcare access in rural areas, particularly in his Westmorland and Lonsdale constituency. Tim emphasises the challenges his constituents face with access to cancer treatment, such as long travel times for radiotherapy, which negatively impacts patient outcomes. He advocates for the creation of satellite radiotherapy units in rural hospitals, like the Westmorland General, to reduce travel times and improve healthcare access. Tim also highlights the broader need for the UK to invest more in radiotherapy technology and infrastructure, as the country lags behind its European counterparts in equipment and treatment accessibility.

Additionally, the conversation explores the importance of industry collaboration with political leaders to improve healthcare services. Tim encourages AXREM members to build relationships with MPs to advocate for technological advancements and better policies. The episode concludes with Tim sharing his passion for music, notably his admiration for the band Prefab Sprout, and reflecting on how personal connections can drive meaningful changes in both healthcare and community life.

Tim Farron - Connect with Tim

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Transcript

[00:00.000 --> 00:05.000]  Welcome to AXREM Insights, developing healthcare through medtech and innovation.
[00:05.000 --> 00:12.000]  Join Melanie Johnson and Sally Edgington as they talk with our industry leaders and experts.
[00:12.000 --> 00:16.000]  Hello, I'm Melanie Johnson and I'm here with Sally Edgington.
[00:16.000 --> 00:20.000]  Welcome to Series 4, Episode 2 of our collaboration podcasts.
[00:20.000 --> 00:26.000]  Today we have the pleasure to be speaking to Tim Farron, who is a Liberal Democrat MP for Westmoreland and Lonsdale
[00:26.000 --> 00:29.000]  and has been an MP continually since May 2005.
[00:29.000 --> 00:33.000]  So welcome, Tim, and thank you for being on the show and allowing us to get to know you a little better.
[00:33.000 --> 00:40.000]  With our podcast theme being collaborations, I will start by handing over to you to tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:40.000 --> 00:42.000]  OK, well, hello. I am Tim Farron.
[00:42.000 --> 00:47.000]  First of all, thanks for having me and thanks for all that you do with AXREM. It's seriously appreciated.
[00:47.000 --> 00:54.000]  I am the Member of Parliament for Westmoreland and Lonsdale, and that basically is the biggest chunk of the Lake District,
[00:54.000 --> 01:00.000]  quite a bit of the Dales and places like Kendall and Appleby and Kirby, Stephen and Grange.
[01:00.000 --> 01:05.000]  So very, very large, about the second largest seat in England geographically.
[01:05.000 --> 01:09.000]  So a beautiful part of the world. I'm from slightly further south originally.
[01:09.000 --> 01:12.000]  I'm from Lancashire. My enormous number of sins.
[01:12.000 --> 01:18.000]  I'm a Blackman Rovers fan. I'm a pop music anorak. I used to be the leader of my party.
[01:19.000 --> 01:25.000]  I now speak for us on environmental and farming and rural affairs issues.
[01:25.000 --> 01:30.000]  But I have an area which I'm passionate about when it comes to cancer.
[01:30.000 --> 01:40.000]  Triggered originally, I would say, initially by concerns I have in my community about distance to travel in order to get treatments.
[01:40.000 --> 01:47.000]  But obviously a lot more now that I'm aware of in terms of trying to improve the quality of care for everybody.
[01:47.000 --> 01:51.000]  Great. Thanks, Tim. And you mentioned and kind of touched on it a bit there.
[01:51.000 --> 01:59.000]  But what do you see as the main priorities for your constituents in terms of health care in your kind of region area?
[01:59.000 --> 02:04.000]  A lot of the issues that affect us will be about access to treatment.
[02:04.000 --> 02:09.000]  There's a lot more to it than that. For instance, I mean, I know it's hardly unusual.
[02:09.000 --> 02:13.000]  Pretty much every community has issues when it comes to dentistry.
[02:13.000 --> 02:22.000]  But even more so when the distance is to travel to the next available place where there might be an NHS dentist is so vast.
[02:22.000 --> 02:32.000]  GP surgeries, by definition, to have a GP surgery close to where you live in the rural community means that it's bound to have a smaller role,
[02:32.000 --> 02:36.000]  a smaller number of patients on its role than on an urban area.
[02:36.000 --> 02:41.000]  And that means there's impacts on efficiency, on recruiting and retaining GPs and other staff.
[02:42.000 --> 02:45.000]  But then, of course, when it comes to hospital and other secondary treatment,
[02:45.000 --> 02:54.000]  we have got a problem where the distances to accident and emergency care, trauma care and cancer treatment are far too long,
[02:54.000 --> 02:57.000]  in my view, to be safe and certainly to be, anyway, satisfactory.
[02:57.000 --> 03:06.000]  And so when it comes to cancer, for most of my constituents who would travel to Preston for treatment, which is a great centre, I should say,
[03:06.000 --> 03:15.000]  but so many of my constituents who are travelling for four or more hour round trips to get treatment every day for weeks on end.
[03:15.000 --> 03:21.000]  And that's not acceptable. That means, of course, some patients don't get to have that treatment at all in the first place,
[03:21.000 --> 03:26.000]  or they don't complete it because they're just shattered before they get part way through it or all the way through it.
[03:26.000 --> 03:31.000]  And that means we've got poor outcomes. Longer journeys mean shorter lives.
[03:31.000 --> 03:39.000]  And that's what piqued my interest in radiotherapy in particular as a technology, how it could be delivered much closer to home than it currently is for us.
[03:39.000 --> 03:46.000]  We brought chemotherapy closer to home and is available in the constituency now, cancer surgery also.
[03:46.000 --> 03:52.000]  But the technology behind radiotherapy is something we could easily place at the hospital in Kendall.
[03:52.000 --> 03:55.000]  And it's not yet being done. And I continue to campaign for it.
[03:55.000 --> 04:05.000]  But in seeing what radiotherapy can do, I begin to realise that it's not just access distances to treatment that is an issue.
[04:05.000 --> 04:10.000]  It's about levels of investment in general, whether you live in the most rural or the most urban places,
[04:10.000 --> 04:16.000]  which is why I helped set up the All-Party Group on radiotherapy and I'm still in a position to chair it.
[04:16.000 --> 04:22.000]  Yeah, and I totally agree with you in terms of when you're undergoing cancer treatment,
[04:22.000 --> 04:27.000]  you're not feeling well as a result of some treatment anyway.
[04:27.000 --> 04:34.000]  So then to have to do a four hour round trip and it can be a daily thing over a longer period of time is totally unacceptable.
[04:34.000 --> 04:41.000]  And I agree that accessibility for everybody in the modern world that we live in should be
[04:41.000 --> 04:46.000]  something that is within our gift in the UK being a national health service.
[04:46.000 --> 04:50.000]  So I totally agree. So following on from the previous question,
[04:50.000 --> 04:55.000]  what do you think needs to happen to alleviate those concerns and how do you think you can influence this?
[04:55.000 --> 05:01.000]  So I think, first of all, on a local level, I simply want it to be a satellite radiotherapy unit,
[05:01.000 --> 05:04.000]  which belongs to Preston Rosemary Unit, which is excellent,
[05:04.000 --> 05:08.000]  but which is operated from the hospital in Kendall, the Westman General Hospital,
[05:08.000 --> 05:14.000]  to serve all of South Cumbria from Barrow right the way into the Yorkshire Dales on the Cumbrian side of the border.
[05:14.000 --> 05:17.000]  I think that's an easy thing to do, a relatively inexpensive thing to do,
[05:17.000 --> 05:25.000]  and it would save lives and show that the NHS does give a monkey's about people who live not in a very urban setting.
[05:25.000 --> 05:28.000]  That is yet to be proven in the current state of things, I would say.
[05:29.000 --> 05:34.000]  More generally, though, the UK needs to be investing properly in radiotherapy.
[05:34.000 --> 05:38.000]  It's a glib thing to say, so let's be a bit more specific about what I mean.
[05:38.000 --> 05:46.000]  So we are in the UK at 25% down when it comes to linear accelerators compared to other equivalent countries in Europe.
[05:46.000 --> 05:52.000]  Again, other equivalent countries in Europe, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, United States,
[05:52.000 --> 05:57.000]  will spend about 9% of their cancer budget on radiotherapy.
[05:57.000 --> 05:59.000]  We're spending 5%.
[05:59.000 --> 06:04.000]  So all of this shows you that as a result of various governments going back 30 years,
[06:04.000 --> 06:08.000]  so we're going to all have to take some blame here, the UK has been behind the curve.
[06:08.000 --> 06:15.000]  And the consequences, we know that, again, on an average for a highly developed country like ours,
[06:15.000 --> 06:21.000]  53% of cancer patients should be receiving radiotherapy as their primary form of treatment.
[06:21.000 --> 06:24.000]  In the UK, it's 27%.
[06:24.000 --> 06:32.000]  And there's a whole bunch of reasons why that's the case, but it's partly, if not largely, down to access and to capacity.
[06:32.000 --> 06:40.000]  And so comparatively, compared to other forms of treatment, to undo that gap, to make up that gap
[06:40.000 --> 06:49.000]  and give us a world-fast or even a world-average radiotherapy network in the UK would be relatively cheap, relatively inexpensive.
[06:49.000 --> 06:51.000]  We're not talking billions.
[06:51.000 --> 06:54.000]  And so it seems to me a no-brainer.
[06:54.000 --> 06:55.000]  How do you influence it?
[06:55.000 --> 06:57.000]  That's why we set up the All-Party Group in the first place.
[06:57.000 --> 07:03.000]  So often, in my observation in politics and around parliament, is that there's not so much corruption,
[07:03.000 --> 07:09.000]  there's not so much conspiracies, but it is about people who are in the room with the decision-makers.
[07:09.000 --> 07:14.000]  Have you got a lobby arguing the case for a particular form of treatment in this case
[07:14.000 --> 07:20.000]  that has got ministers and senior officials within NHS England's ears?
[07:20.000 --> 07:26.000]  And radiotherapy and other forms of technology, it would be fair to say, has had less access,
[07:26.000 --> 07:33.000]  have been less listened to by senior people in NHS England and ministers and officials for some time now.
[07:33.000 --> 07:40.000]  And I don't want people to get prickly and feel offended by me saying this, but it is an absolute statement of fact.
[07:40.000 --> 07:44.000]  And so we are behind the curve when it comes to investing in technology.
[07:44.000 --> 07:48.000]  Not you guys who are producing it, researching it and developing it,
[07:48.000 --> 07:55.000]  but the people commissioning it politically and administratively, we've got to hold our hands up.
[07:55.000 --> 08:00.000]  We've let you down, but more importantly, we've let patients down for decades now.
[08:00.000 --> 08:05.000]  And rather than trying to avoid responsibility, now's the time to take it.
[08:05.000 --> 08:06.000]  Totally agree.
[08:06.000 --> 08:13.000]  And I think that one thing we've been saying is the government needs to plan long-term strategic funding
[08:13.000 --> 08:20.000]  and not just for their term. We need to be looking at, and we see the age profile of radiotherapy equipment
[08:20.000 --> 08:25.000]  is really poor in the UK, opposed to most other European countries.
[08:25.000 --> 08:33.000]  And what we're also seeing is that the OEMs and suppliers are innovating fantastic radiotherapy equipment.
[08:33.000 --> 08:37.000]  And when you think of what a mobile phone looked like 10 years ago and what it looks like now,
[08:37.000 --> 08:40.000]  it's the same with radiotherapy machines.
[08:40.000 --> 08:43.000]  So obviously if somebody is running a 10-year-old radiotherapy machine,
[08:43.000 --> 08:52.000]  we know that the innovative and more recent models, less dosage, better for the patient, quicker,
[08:52.000 --> 08:57.000]  and can obviously service more patients as well.
[08:57.000 --> 08:59.000]  So I totally agree with all those points.
[08:59.000 --> 09:04.000]  And I think all the work that you've been doing in the APPG for radiotherapy is fantastic.
[09:04.000 --> 09:12.000]  And I hope that, you know, change is on the horizon because you've done such a fantastic job with that group.
[09:12.000 --> 09:18.000]  Some of it is about more money, but comparatively not that much more money compared to other forms of treatment.
[09:18.000 --> 09:20.000]  But some of it is about just doing things more intelligently.
[09:20.000 --> 09:25.000]  You absolutely rightly said, Sally, about the age of some of the machines.
[09:25.000 --> 09:31.000]  We are supported, obviously, by Radiotherapy UK, a wonderful charity headed by Professor Pat Price.
[09:31.000 --> 09:36.000]  And that charity, and therefore, because of their position, our all-party group,
[09:36.000 --> 09:39.000]  have got a brilliant relationship with the workforce.
[09:39.000 --> 09:46.000]  So when we send out a survey, we get, you know, between 50 and 80 percent response rates, which is just unheard of.
[09:46.000 --> 09:55.000]  And so I think it's a reminder that this is a sector that is desperate to be heard, desperate to have its voice heard,
[09:55.000 --> 09:59.000]  and keen to take advantage of anybody who's prepared to speak up for them.
[09:59.000 --> 10:05.000]  But that means we know with confidence that we're getting a good picture of what the situation is around the country.
[10:05.000 --> 10:12.000]  And that picture includes, at times, some cancer centers having Linux of 17 years of age.
[10:12.000 --> 10:18.000]  But very often in the 10-year period age group, like you suggest, that means we're a long way behind the curve.
[10:18.000 --> 10:20.000]  We're not saving the lives we could do.
[10:20.000 --> 10:23.000]  A lot of this is about doing things just more intelligently.
[10:23.000 --> 10:30.000]  So let's have tariffs that work. They encourage us to use the best technology, not the second or third best.
[10:30.000 --> 10:33.000]  Let's also plan the commissioning sensibly.
[10:33.000 --> 10:42.000]  Let's be having a national model where every center is hooked into a commissioning and purchasing model
[10:42.000 --> 10:45.000]  so that you know you're getting new machines every few years,
[10:45.000 --> 10:49.000]  that you're not having as a relatively small cancer center having to hold a sinking fund
[10:49.000 --> 10:52.000]  because, you know, at some point something might break.
[10:52.000 --> 10:57.000]  But there's a guarantee that you're going to get a new machine every few years, new machines.
[10:57.000 --> 11:03.000]  And it's not something that's hanging around your neck so that you have, you know, absolutely a postcode lottery.
[11:03.000 --> 11:05.000]  Those are things that are easily fixable.
[11:05.000 --> 11:11.000]  Not only would that not cost more money, publicly, with bulk buying, it costs a lot less money.
[11:11.000 --> 11:18.000]  And so there's a lack of intelligence when it comes to how we do these things, as well as a lack of investment.
[11:18.000 --> 11:24.000]  I absolutely agree. And hopefully, collectively, we'll continue our lobbying for world-class radiotherapy treatment.
[11:24.000 --> 11:25.000]  On to the next question.
[11:25.000 --> 11:32.000]  How do you think ACTRA members, innovation and technology, can help health care professionals of the future and the NHS more broadly?
[11:32.000 --> 11:36.000]  Well, I think a lot of it is we're all busy people, aren't we?
[11:36.000 --> 11:38.000]  And if you're in the NHS, you're even more busy.
[11:38.000 --> 11:42.000]  So it's how do you communicate to people what it is you can offer?
[11:42.000 --> 11:45.000]  Often it's about making sure we have a good relationship with medical schools
[11:46.000 --> 11:51.000]  because people who start their careers in a position of being well informed about the technology
[11:51.000 --> 11:56.000]  and knowing, as you say, that it's evolving all the time and so therefore staying alert to the developments,
[11:56.000 --> 12:01.000]  these are people who are going to be lobbying within commissioning groups for a more intelligent approach.
[12:01.000 --> 12:06.000]  And likewise, we haven't to give up on the upper reaches of NHS England, for example.
[12:06.000 --> 12:09.000]  We've got to recognize that these people will make decisions.
[12:09.000 --> 12:13.000]  And so it's about constantly seeking to be in the room with them,
[12:13.000 --> 12:19.000]  graciously demonstrating to them what they could have, what could be commissioned and the lives that could be saved.
[12:19.000 --> 12:26.000]  But I also think that how ACTRA members engage with politicians is something that's worth bearing in mind.
[12:26.000 --> 12:28.000]  Let's start with the local and move to the national.
[12:28.000 --> 12:32.000]  On a national level, of course, we've got Health and Social Care Select Committee,
[12:32.000 --> 12:36.000]  which is about to be chaired now by my good friend and colleague, Leila Moran.
[12:37.000 --> 12:45.000]  And Parliamentary Select Committees are well resourced with great experts whose full-time job it is to know everything
[12:45.000 --> 12:50.000]  and make sure that when you've got a hospital trust chief exec or a health minister in front of you,
[12:50.000 --> 12:53.000]  they get asked the cleverest questions that you can't run away from.
[12:53.000 --> 13:00.000]  The problem is Health Oversight and Scrutiny Committees and local authorities
[13:00.000 --> 13:05.000]  are made up of really good, lovely people who are counsellors and have other jobs.
[13:05.000 --> 13:10.000]  And just like MPs are not experts, and they'll have a lovely officer who is administering the process,
[13:10.000 --> 13:16.000]  but what they won't have is that body of expertise that will give them confidence that they're asking the right questions,
[13:16.000 --> 13:23.000]  that the hospital trust chief exec or the ICB finance manager can't run away from or evade.
[13:23.000 --> 13:26.000]  And so this is where experts come in.
[13:26.000 --> 13:31.000]  So I guess establishing a relationship with your local counsellors,
[13:31.000 --> 13:34.000]  the ones who are on the Health Overview and Scrutiny Committee,
[13:34.000 --> 13:37.000]  that could make a huge difference on a local and a regional level.
[13:37.000 --> 13:41.000]  But then on a national level, every member of Axiom has got an MP.
[13:41.000 --> 13:45.000]  Go and make friends with them. Go and tell them what you do.
[13:45.000 --> 13:50.000]  Don't badger them so much as develop a relationship with them and then see if you can take them on a journey,
[13:50.000 --> 13:58.000]  which gets them to ask the questions we need them to ask about the rollout and the improvement of technology throughout the NHS.
[13:58.000 --> 14:05.000]  Thanks, Tim. And we mentioned earlier about the work that you've been doing with the APPG for radiotherapy.
[14:05.000 --> 14:09.000]  I know that following the election, you've just reformed that APPG.
[14:09.000 --> 14:14.000]  So can you tell us a little bit more about it and also why you decided to get involved?
[14:14.000 --> 14:20.000]  Well, the APPG was set up in a very hot and far too small committee room.
[14:20.000 --> 14:25.000]  I was there about 2018. And what was interesting was a handful of MPs in there.
[14:25.000 --> 14:36.000]  It was absolutely chocker with physicists, oncologists, the leading lifesavers in the country in that room.
[14:36.000 --> 14:41.000]  And it was amazing to see the talent and the seriousness of the people there.
[14:41.000 --> 14:45.000]  And it struck me on that day what a gap we were filling.
[14:46.000 --> 14:52.000]  All the pharmaceutical companies, of course, they're going to lobby for their products and that's perfectly legitimate.
[14:52.000 --> 14:55.000]  And there is a whole machinery, even an industry around doing that.
[14:55.000 --> 15:06.000]  I'm always getting letters from constituents rightly saying, please lobby for X drug to be licensed because it will make a huge difference to me, to my life and so on.
[15:06.000 --> 15:09.000]  And that's great and good. But there's nothing like that.
[15:09.000 --> 15:17.000]  There's no kind of industry of that sort, sending me letters or other MPs letters saying, you know, we need the most modern Linux, for instance.
[15:17.000 --> 15:24.000]  And so the awareness of that lack of a lobby is what drew all these people into this room, which we were absolutely crammed.
[15:24.000 --> 15:30.000]  I was in that room this morning on a totally different issue and amazed we fit so many people in a small space.
[15:30.000 --> 15:34.000]  We set up basically because I spoke at an event about cancer.
[15:34.000 --> 15:45.000]  I talked about radiotherapy and my experiences in my constituency and the issues about distance travel and need for satellite units in those rural communities that have such difficult access to treatment.
[15:45.000 --> 15:48.000]  And then others came up to me afterwards and said, you're right about that.
[15:48.000 --> 15:51.000]  But that's only one of the many issues facing radiotherapy.
[15:51.000 --> 15:58.000]  And you need to know about these two. And it was a really useful set of conversations that led to setting up the APBG.
[15:58.000 --> 16:03.000]  And, you know, all party groups need to be, I think, a few things.
[16:03.000 --> 16:06.000]  First of all, they need to be genuinely cross-party.
[16:06.000 --> 16:17.000]  So it's great to have Lord Bethel, former Conservative Health Minister as one of the vice chairs, and Graham Morris, a very experienced Labour backbencher as another vice chair.
[16:17.000 --> 16:24.000]  So we are religiously cross-party and seeking to be constructive in our dialogue with the government, whatever colour they are.
[16:24.000 --> 16:31.000]  We want to work with you so we can make things better for people with cancer and people who are working to help people with cancer.
[16:31.000 --> 16:36.000]  But we also need to be very clear that if you ask for too much, you lose the room.
[16:36.000 --> 16:45.000]  And so our job basically is to kind of represent the sector and those who are patients going through it and to have very simple asks.
[16:45.000 --> 16:54.000]  And our simple asks are about that greater targeted investment in radiotherapy, about more satellite units in rural communities, about backing the workforce,
[16:54.000 --> 17:00.000]  about backing technology and AI so that workforce can work smarter and help more people.
[17:00.000 --> 17:08.000]  And we have a small four-page radiotherapy manifesto that we're just desperate that the government steals every line of, or even some of,
[17:08.000 --> 17:19.000]  because we're in this to try to make a difference and help save lives, extend people's lives and to support those people who work tirelessly to do that.
[17:19.000 --> 17:23.000]  Thanks. And you speak about some of the key priorities around the satellite units.
[17:23.000 --> 17:31.000]  And obviously it's all set out in your manifesto, which we will put a link when we put out this podcast to the manifesto as well.
[17:31.000 --> 17:35.000]  But what can industry do to help with this, Tim?
[17:35.000 --> 17:38.000]  Yeah, I think so. First of all, I mean, obviously keep informing us.
[17:38.000 --> 17:44.000]  We want to make sure we're asking for the right things because we can't criticize the government and the commissioners for not updating what they're doing.
[17:44.000 --> 17:50.000]  If we then just, you know, keep hanging on to what we were proposing, you know, three, four, five years ago.
[17:50.000 --> 17:58.000]  So keep refreshing. We are absolutely open to be criticized and to be advised that actually maybe we want to move on and ask for something else or something different.
[17:58.000 --> 18:02.000]  So please keep an eye on what we're proposing and make sure that we're properly informed.
[18:02.000 --> 18:11.000]  And then secondly, it's what I said earlier on, establish that relationship with your local MP, even better if that person might be a minister or something.
[18:11.000 --> 18:19.000]  And just try to take them on a journey and remember all of us are bears with little brains, or at least we're people who are, you know, most of us if we're MPs,
[18:19.000 --> 18:27.000]  you're not experts in very much, if anything at all. And if we are doing our jobs properly, we ought to be grateful and open ears to people who do know what they're talking about.
[18:27.000 --> 18:35.000]  So it's about, you know, without being patronizing, getting alongside MPs and trying to upskill them and, you know, using the language.
[18:35.000 --> 18:42.000]  That's what I try to do. I mean, I spend my time with people like yourselves who are experts and I try to absorb what you're telling me.
[18:42.000 --> 18:49.000]  Often after about 11 times of asking you to clarify, because as I say, I'm a bear with little brain.
[18:49.000 --> 18:58.000]  But then that allows me to hopefully articulate in understandable language to everybody else, to other MPs, to commissioners, to journalists, to the public.
[18:58.000 --> 19:08.000]  So communication is everything, as I say. So many of these decisions in the health service and elsewhere are taken in the interest, shall we say, of the people who are in the room.
[19:08.000 --> 19:11.000]  So let's just make sure we're in the room and that we're heard.
[19:11.000 --> 19:22.000]  Absolutely. And I always say that I think I've sort of noticed, I am seeing a change, but maybe industry sometimes underestimated and industry obviously wants to sell more machines.
[19:22.000 --> 19:38.000]  But ultimately, what is really important is so much money goes into research and development to make sure that industry are producing machines and services that offer the very best patient care, patient safety.
[19:38.000 --> 19:49.000]  And I think that we've got so many experts in industry, many of which were previously clinicians or have worked in the NHS so they can see it from both sides of the fence.
[19:49.000 --> 19:56.000]  And so I think that that's really important. And we hugely appreciate that engagement that we've been having with the APPG.
[19:56.000 --> 20:03.000]  Right. Well, we appreciate it as well, because I think it's important that we feel confident that we're asking for the right things.
[20:03.000 --> 20:08.000]  And, you know, yes, of course, industry wants to sell machines and pharmaceutical industry wants to sell drugs.
[20:08.000 --> 20:11.000]  And it's perfectly right for you to make the case.
[20:11.000 --> 20:25.000]  And the reality is that treating people with cancer will involve a whole armory of things which absolutely includes drugs, absolutely includes surgery and absolutely includes radiotherapy and other technologies.
[20:25.000 --> 20:35.000]  And so it shouldn't be a battle. It's about us all working together to make sure we've got the best treatments, the best package of treatments for people living with cancer.
[20:35.000 --> 20:47.000]  So that as we are beginning to diagnose people better and more quickly than we were, we don't then have an awful situation where you diagnose people and they have to wait an intolerable length of time to begin their first treatment.
[20:47.000 --> 20:59.000]  You think that government policy, even if we met our targets, you know, one in six, one in seven people with cancer wouldn't be being seen within two months of being told they have cancer.
[20:59.000 --> 21:06.000]  And we're told, aren't we, that every four weeks delay is a 10% increase of you dying from your cancer.
[21:06.000 --> 21:14.000]  But that's they meet their target. In reality, it's not one in six, one in seven people not being seen in two months.
[21:14.000 --> 21:26.000]  It's one in three. It's two in five. It's intolerable. There are definitely people dying because despite the fact we are diagnosing people sooner, we haven't got the kit to treat them.
[21:26.000 --> 21:40.000]  Yeah. And I think you raised a valid point in a recent speech that you gave at an AXREM event that obviously, and it literally gives me goosebumps every time I hear this, but one in two of us will get cancer at some point in our lives.
[21:40.000 --> 21:48.000]  So it's going to touch all of us, whether it's friends, family, whether you work in the NHS or industry, we're all going to benefit from better treatment.
[21:48.000 --> 21:54.000]  So I think that's just so important to remember. But I'm going to hand over to Mel on a slightly lighter point now.
[21:54.000 --> 22:00.000]  Oh, thank you. And I think you articulate it very well, just for the record, Tim. Going on to my quirky question.
[22:00.000 --> 22:05.000]  If you could hang around with any famous person, dead or alive, who would it be and why?
[22:06.000 --> 22:16.000]  Well, I'm going to pick, if people know me, they'll know that I'll not be surprised by this. I'd pick Paddy McEloon from Prefab Sprout.
[22:16.000 --> 22:26.000]  And I love Prefab Sprout and I love them. I'm a man of my age. I'm 54, so I was kind of an indie kid in the 80s.
[22:26.000 --> 22:32.000]  And this is because I really snotted this, right? I'm just quoting somebody else. I love the Smiths.
[22:32.000 --> 22:39.000]  I still love the Smiths. They're excellent, really, really excellent. Not a bad album, not even a bad song.
[22:39.000 --> 22:48.000]  But the NME once wrote up about Prefab Sprout. They said, Prefab Sprout are the Smiths for people with A-levels.
[22:49.000 --> 23:01.000]  And not my words, but I think there's something in that. But there's a beauty to Paddy McEloon's music and lyrics.
[23:01.000 --> 23:07.000]  There's the cleverest of words. I mean, words are trains for moving past what really has no name.
[23:07.000 --> 23:14.000]  And there's a song that was playing the night that you fell for someone from heaven who put you through hell.
[23:14.000 --> 23:17.000]  There's great lines, really wonderful, wonderful, wonderful lines.
[23:17.000 --> 23:21.000]  And obviously he also wrote Hot Dog Jumping Frog Albuquerque.
[23:21.000 --> 23:26.000]  But the thing about that great song, the King of Rock and Roll is the most famous Prefab Sprout song.
[23:26.000 --> 23:32.000]  Ironically, it's about a man who has a one hit wonder and he's totally defined by it.
[23:32.000 --> 23:35.000]  And he wants to tell the world, but I write much better songs than that.
[23:35.000 --> 23:39.000]  And the irony is that's exactly what happened because of that song.
[23:39.000 --> 23:46.000]  So I've met Paddy's brother, Martin, who's the bass player, who's been touring the songs recently.
[23:46.000 --> 23:56.000]  I've had many a communication online and on a radio program once with my pinup, Wendy Smith from Prefab Sprout.
[23:56.000 --> 24:02.000]  I've yet to meet Martin the drummer for the singer-songwriter Paddy McEloon, who's written the soundtrack to my life.
[24:02.000 --> 24:07.000]  Very often, if I'm on a long journey, I will listen to all the albums in order.
[24:07.000 --> 24:10.000]  So I heard their first song when I was 15.
[24:10.000 --> 24:13.000]  I'm still 54 and they still surprise me.
[24:13.000 --> 24:19.000]  And I just I just want to be nerdy and ask him about all the obscure lyrics about the songs that I don't understand.
[24:19.000 --> 24:22.000]  You sound like a proper superfan, Tim.
[24:22.000 --> 24:31.000]  Yeah. Well, I think I say to my kids, you know, if you follow Taylor Swift or you follow some mega band or what have you,
[24:31.000 --> 24:34.000]  then the chances of you ever meeting them is miniscule.
[24:34.000 --> 24:40.000]  If you follow some obscure band from the 80s, you get to meet your heroes.
[24:40.000 --> 24:44.000]  You know, I've met 50 percent of Prefab Sprout, so I'll take that.
[24:44.000 --> 24:47.000]  But I'd like to meet the other two, especially Paddy.
[24:47.000 --> 24:52.000]  Oh, maybe we'll have to put something out with this podcast as a little promotion.
[24:52.000 --> 24:58.000]  We will. Tim, thank you so much for your time today, because I know time is precious.
[24:58.000 --> 25:05.000]  We found out loads more about you and the APPG for radiotherapy and the work you're doing within your constituency.
[25:05.000 --> 25:08.000]  And thank you for your continued support of AXREM
[25:08.000 --> 25:11.000]  So a big thank you to Tim for being our guest for today.
[25:11.000 --> 25:13.000]  And thank you to all our listeners.
[25:13.000 --> 25:15.000]  Pleasure. Thanks for having me. And thanks for all that you do.
[25:15.000 --> 25:19.000]  Join Sally and I next week when we were speaking to Jackie Rock from NHS England.
[25:28.000 --> 25:30.000]  Thank you.