AXREM Insights
AXREM Insights bringing you insights from within the industry. We'll be talking to our team and our members and delving into the people behind the products and services.
AXREM Insights
S5E8 - Sustaining Progress in Radiotherapy: From Passion to Policy
In this episode of AXREM Insights, Melanie Johnson and Sally Edgington speak with David Kynaston from BrainLab and Dan Baines from Elekta, two key figures in AXREM’s Radiotherapy Special Focus Group. They discuss their personal journeys into the radiotherapy space, their passion for improving cancer care, and how the group is helping shape a better future for radiotherapy services in the UK. Their shared experiences highlight the unique, collaborative nature of the radiotherapy community and the vital role AXREM plays in connecting industry with NHS needs.
The conversation explores the current challenges facing the sector, including outdated equipment, fragmented funding, and increasing demand. David and Dan reflect on the group’s manifesto — “Driving Towards a Modern, World-Class Radiotherapy Service” — and the importance of sustained, long-term investment to bring about real change. They also highlight the powerful partnerships between AXREM, Radiotherapy UK and parliamentary stakeholders, all working together to ensure radiotherapy receives the recognition and support it deserves.
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[00:00.000 --> 00:02.760] Welcome to AXREM Insights,
[00:02.760 --> 00:05.500] developing healthcare through medtech and innovation.
[00:05.500 --> 00:08.240] Join Melanie Johnson and Sally Edgington as they
[00:08.240 --> 00:11.280] talk with our industry leaders and experts.
[00:11.280 --> 00:13.120] Hello and welcome.
[00:13.120 --> 00:15.880] I'm Melanie Johnson and I'm here with Sally Edgington.
[00:15.880 --> 00:18.000] Today, we have the pleasure to be speaking to
[00:18.000 --> 00:21.280] both David Kynaston, sales manager at BrainLab,
[00:21.280 --> 00:24.280] and AXREM's radiotherapy special focus group convener,
[00:24.280 --> 00:25.960] as well as Daniel Baines,
[00:25.960 --> 00:29.000] country manager and sales director at Elector,
[00:29.120 --> 00:31.920] and AXREM's special focus group advice convener.
[00:31.920 --> 00:33.280] So welcome, David and Dan,
[00:33.280 --> 00:35.080] and thank you for being on our show today.
[00:35.080 --> 00:37.400] Now let's get started by handing over to you
[00:37.400 --> 00:39.120] to tell us a little bit about yourself
[00:39.120 --> 00:40.520] and what's your story.
[00:40.520 --> 00:42.400] Yeah, so first of all, thank you for having us.
[00:42.400 --> 00:45.040] It's great to be here and it's great to see you as always,
[00:45.040 --> 00:46.680] or hear you as the case may be.
[00:47.680 --> 00:49.600] Yeah, so my name's David Kynaston.
[00:49.600 --> 00:51.960] I'm the UK and Ireland manager for BrainLab.
[00:51.960 --> 00:53.440] Obviously, I've been working with AXREM now
[00:53.440 --> 00:56.480] for a number of years and under the close guidance of Dan
[00:56.520 --> 00:58.200] as the convener for the group.
[00:58.200 --> 01:00.400] In the last few months, I've taken over this role
[01:00.400 --> 01:02.040] and with Dan's support,
[01:02.040 --> 01:04.240] looking forward to leading the group into the future.
[01:04.240 --> 01:06.440] And I think it's been a great experience so far
[01:06.440 --> 01:09.280] working together and we've already seen some positive steps.
[01:09.280 --> 01:11.720] And I think, yeah, it's good to continue this
[01:11.720 --> 01:12.680] into the future.
[01:12.680 --> 01:15.680] I guess I'll hand to Dan to do a proper introduction
[01:15.680 --> 01:17.760] of himself at this point as well.
[01:17.760 --> 01:18.600] Great, thanks, David.
[01:18.600 --> 01:19.760] Yeah, so I'm Dan Baines.
[01:19.760 --> 01:22.880] I'm the country manager for Elector for the UK and Ireland.
[01:22.880 --> 01:26.360] And I've been working with AXREM for many years now,
[01:27.200 --> 01:28.440] alongside my colleague, Richard Coldrick.
[01:28.440 --> 01:30.440] And I've been supporting AXREM
[01:30.440 --> 01:32.840] and obviously the activities that AXREM do
[01:32.840 --> 01:34.160] in Radiotherapy UK.
[01:34.160 --> 01:35.600] And then I got really interested
[01:35.600 --> 01:37.880] in the radiotherapy special focus group.
[01:37.880 --> 01:40.240] And then I was lucky enough to take over from Adele,
[01:40.240 --> 01:41.560] the previous governor.
[01:41.560 --> 01:43.880] And I was convener for a couple of years
[01:43.880 --> 01:44.920] for the special focus group.
[01:44.920 --> 01:47.400] And then I've been able to hand the responsibilities
[01:47.400 --> 01:48.400] over to David.
[01:48.400 --> 01:50.840] So we're really looking forward to how AXREM
[01:50.840 --> 01:53.240] and the special focus group is gonna move forward
[01:53.240 --> 01:55.080] from here, really.
[01:55.080 --> 01:56.640] So tell us a little bit about your history
[01:56.640 --> 01:58.800] before where you've been at the moment.
[01:58.800 --> 02:01.520] David, what's kind of your history, your background?
[02:01.520 --> 02:03.680] How did you get into this?
[02:03.680 --> 02:06.840] So from my perspective, no clinical background at all.
[02:06.840 --> 02:09.800] I've had quite a convoluted journey to where I am today.
[02:10.640 --> 02:11.960] I worked for Philips previously
[02:11.960 --> 02:13.440] and I was more on the imaging side,
[02:13.440 --> 02:16.320] which again, I know worked very closely with AXREM
[02:16.320 --> 02:18.720] and we have a special focus group for that as well.
[02:18.720 --> 02:22.160] I would say a person that Dan is probably quite familiar
[02:22.160 --> 02:23.640] with, Sean Atkinson from the Christie's,
[02:23.640 --> 02:27.040] to blame for my involvement in radiotherapy.
[02:27.040 --> 02:29.440] So when I first joined Philips,
[02:29.440 --> 02:30.800] not having a clinical background,
[02:30.800 --> 02:33.160] he was very keen for me to understand
[02:33.160 --> 02:36.320] a bit more about the complexities of radiotherapy
[02:36.320 --> 02:39.240] when you compare that to a more diagnostic environment.
[02:39.240 --> 02:41.800] And he invited me in and I spent quite a bit of time
[02:41.800 --> 02:44.560] in the department looking through making masks,
[02:44.560 --> 02:46.240] planning and then time on treatment.
[02:46.240 --> 02:48.880] And for me, it was a very, very interesting journey
[02:48.880 --> 02:50.280] to see really the differences
[02:50.280 --> 02:52.960] from what I knew of imaging as a patient
[02:52.960 --> 02:55.520] through to obviously the treatment side of things.
[02:55.520 --> 02:58.560] And yeah, then the opportunity arose
[02:58.560 --> 03:00.560] a number of years after that for me to join BrainLab.
[03:00.560 --> 03:03.040] So I still get the privilege of working with Sean.
[03:03.040 --> 03:05.720] So he hasn't managed to get rid of me just yet.
[03:05.720 --> 03:07.960] But yeah, it's been a very, very interesting journey.
[03:07.960 --> 03:10.320] And I think it was quite enlightening
[03:10.320 --> 03:12.000] because you don't know what you don't know.
[03:12.000 --> 03:13.320] And from the Philips perspective,
[03:13.320 --> 03:15.480] we delved into the radiotherapy environment
[03:15.480 --> 03:18.600] from a CT perspective
[03:18.600 --> 03:20.520] and also from a planning perspective at the time.
[03:20.520 --> 03:22.640] But yeah, my knowledge was quite limited
[03:22.640 --> 03:24.080] and it was a big learning curve
[03:24.080 --> 03:26.280] when I first moved to BrainLab to understand really
[03:26.280 --> 03:30.320] the breadth and depth of radiotherapy as a whole.
[03:30.320 --> 03:32.120] And yeah, it's been an amazing journey.
[03:32.120 --> 03:34.160] I think I'd say there's still a lot for me to learn.
[03:34.160 --> 03:36.280] It's an ever evolving environment
[03:36.280 --> 03:38.120] and yeah, it keeps you on your toes.
[03:38.120 --> 03:40.160] So it's been an exciting journey so far.
[03:40.160 --> 03:42.440] I look forward to what the future brings as well.
[03:42.440 --> 03:45.240] And I think that's a key part of what we do as a group
[03:45.240 --> 03:47.360] is trying to sort of shape that future
[03:47.360 --> 03:48.880] with technological advancements
[03:48.880 --> 03:51.640] and what we can do to help expand the care
[03:51.640 --> 03:53.880] that we give to patients.
[03:53.880 --> 03:56.520] Siva, now you're a fond of knowledge.
[03:56.520 --> 03:58.880] I wouldn't go that far.
[03:58.880 --> 04:01.520] Siva and Dan, what about you?
[04:01.520 --> 04:03.720] I'm actually, I was quite surprised.
[04:03.720 --> 04:06.840] I'm in my 26th year in healthcare sales.
[04:06.840 --> 04:11.280] I started way back in 1999 in pharmaceuticals,
[04:11.280 --> 04:14.520] working for Glaxo, Wellcome and Pfizer.
[04:14.520 --> 04:16.880] And then after a number of years selling pharmaceuticals,
[04:16.880 --> 04:19.160] I really wanted to move into sort of capital equipment
[04:19.160 --> 04:20.960] and diagnostics.
[04:20.960 --> 04:22.720] I always wondered what happened to patients
[04:22.720 --> 04:24.480] once they've been prescribed medicine
[04:24.480 --> 04:26.000] or how they got to that point.
[04:26.000 --> 04:29.520] So I moved across into selling contrast media
[04:29.520 --> 04:32.000] for x-ray, CT and ultrasound.
[04:32.000 --> 04:33.080] And again, through doing that,
[04:33.080 --> 04:34.120] I got really, really interested
[04:34.120 --> 04:39.000] in the cancer patient journey through the healthcare system.
[04:39.000 --> 04:39.840] And it was at that point,
[04:39.840 --> 04:43.400] I'd spent enough time helping diagnose patients
[04:43.400 --> 04:44.880] that I was wondering what happened next.
[04:44.880 --> 04:47.400] So I was fortunate enough to move across to Phillips
[04:47.400 --> 04:48.360] and then from Phillips,
[04:48.360 --> 04:50.360] I've been as an elector now for eight years.
[04:50.360 --> 04:53.160] So very much at the front end of cancer delivery
[04:53.160 --> 04:54.000] and radiotherapy.
[04:54.000 --> 04:56.840] And it's for me, I feel like I'm home.
[04:56.840 --> 04:58.440] And as David mentioned,
[04:58.440 --> 05:00.320] there's so many characters in radiotherapy
[05:00.320 --> 05:02.560] and it's a very small, close-knit community
[05:02.560 --> 05:04.040] in radiotherapy in the UK.
[05:04.040 --> 05:06.600] Even though we've got the 49 radiotherapy centres
[05:06.600 --> 05:08.760] in England, everyone knows everyone.
[05:08.760 --> 05:11.320] It's a really nice area to work in.
[05:11.320 --> 05:13.720] And because it's at the healthcare provision,
[05:13.720 --> 05:15.880] the real treatment side of healthcare,
[05:15.880 --> 05:17.440] everyone's got a similar mindset.
[05:17.440 --> 05:18.920] It's all very patient-focused.
[05:18.920 --> 05:20.160] And that's what appeals to me.
[05:21.000 --> 05:23.680] And it keeps me focused on radiotherapy.
[05:23.680 --> 05:25.360] Yeah, we do notice that actually.
[05:25.360 --> 05:27.280] Everything is very tight-knit
[05:27.280 --> 05:29.320] and everybody seems to know everybody.
[05:29.320 --> 05:30.480] So it's lovely.
[05:30.480 --> 05:31.840] And obviously on a personal point of view,
[05:31.840 --> 05:34.640] I know that you're both avid cyclists as well.
[05:34.640 --> 05:37.360] So what is it, roads, mountain biking?
[05:37.360 --> 05:38.600] What are we both into?
[05:39.440 --> 05:41.360] Well, if you start up with,
[05:41.360 --> 05:43.400] David and I always have conversations and competitions.
[05:43.400 --> 05:45.280] Dave's got more broken bones and scars
[05:45.280 --> 05:47.160] than I have from cycling.
[05:47.160 --> 05:48.560] I don't know whether that's a boast
[05:49.360 --> 05:50.360] or shows how extreme it is,
[05:50.360 --> 05:53.480] but I'm both into road and mountain biking.
[05:53.480 --> 05:55.760] I often go to Dave for advice on tyres
[05:55.760 --> 05:57.840] and what to do and what not to do
[05:57.840 --> 05:58.840] and which components to buy.
[05:58.840 --> 06:01.440] But go on, David, which do you prefer?
[06:01.440 --> 06:02.680] Is it road or off-road?
[06:02.680 --> 06:04.040] Sorry, I was just gonna come in there and say,
[06:04.040 --> 06:06.800] it sounds like David needs more balance.
[06:06.800 --> 06:09.400] It sounds like Dan's got better balance than David.
[06:12.000 --> 06:13.760] I mean, I'm not going to disagree.
[06:13.760 --> 06:14.600] I'll be honest.
[06:14.600 --> 06:17.160] I've hit the floor or trees or various things
[06:17.160 --> 06:19.280] far too many times than I can count.
[06:20.200 --> 06:22.880] From that, you can probably guess mountain biking.
[06:22.880 --> 06:24.640] Otherwise, I'm getting very adventurous
[06:24.640 --> 06:26.080] on a road bike in the trees.
[06:28.080 --> 06:29.640] I've been doing it for a good number of years now.
[06:29.640 --> 06:31.400] I was fortunate enough some time ago
[06:31.400 --> 06:33.920] to race for Team GB and travelled the world doing that.
[06:33.920 --> 06:36.280] So yeah, it was good.
[06:36.280 --> 06:37.200] Then I got worse.
[06:37.200 --> 06:39.640] Then I started crashing and breaking things.
[06:39.640 --> 06:42.640] And yeah, now very much it's for fun.
[06:42.640 --> 06:44.320] The road bike does come out every now and then
[06:44.320 --> 06:45.640] to make me feel a little bit better
[06:45.640 --> 06:47.360] after a few too many cakes.
[06:47.360 --> 06:52.360] But my ideal scenario is a mountain bike and a ski lift.
[06:52.400 --> 06:55.680] Take me to the top on the ski lift and ride back down.
[06:55.680 --> 06:58.160] Yeah, that's the right balance for me.
[06:58.160 --> 07:00.160] And we wonder why you have broken bones.
[07:00.160 --> 07:02.880] Yeah, I was gonna say extreme sports.
[07:02.880 --> 07:05.640] I can tell that you're both extremely passionate
[07:05.640 --> 07:06.640] about radio therapy.
[07:06.640 --> 07:08.240] And I see that across our membership.
[07:08.240 --> 07:11.200] And most certainly, I think in the radio therapy
[07:11.200 --> 07:13.760] special focus group, that really shines through
[07:13.760 --> 07:17.360] that everyone's in it for the right reasons.
[07:17.360 --> 07:19.080] So I think it'd be nice for our listeners now
[07:19.080 --> 07:20.680] to really understand a little bit more
[07:20.680 --> 07:23.880] about what the special focus group priorities are.
[07:23.880 --> 07:26.360] And maybe talk a little bit around the manifesto,
[07:26.360 --> 07:27.800] which I know we refreshed Dan
[07:27.800 --> 07:32.000] and we relaunched back in November, 2023.
[07:32.000 --> 07:35.040] And the title of our manifesto is driving towards
[07:35.040 --> 07:38.320] a modern world-class radio therapy service.
[07:38.320 --> 07:39.600] So I'll hand over to you guys.
[07:39.600 --> 07:41.760] I don't know, Dan, because obviously you were convener
[07:41.760 --> 07:42.920] at the time that we launched that.
[07:42.920 --> 07:45.280] Whether you wanna start on the manifesto
[07:45.280 --> 07:47.240] and then maybe David, you can talk a bit about
[07:47.240 --> 07:48.960] the kind of current priorities.
[07:49.920 --> 07:52.000] I mean, I think it's a really interesting point
[07:52.000 --> 07:53.720] where the manifestos come from,
[07:53.720 --> 07:57.080] where the special focus group manifesto is now
[07:57.080 --> 07:59.640] and looking forward where we're gonna take the manifesto
[07:59.640 --> 08:00.680] with David.
[08:00.680 --> 08:04.480] And I think it's reflected the changes in radio therapy.
[08:04.480 --> 08:06.240] Radio therapy has always been changing
[08:06.240 --> 08:08.760] and innovating at a really rapid pace.
[08:08.760 --> 08:12.440] But it's the ability to sort of keep track
[08:12.880 --> 08:15.760] of the innovations and then translate that
[08:15.760 --> 08:18.200] into patient outcome and benefit within the NHS.
[08:18.200 --> 08:23.200] So if you look at the manifesto that we did last year,
[08:23.760 --> 08:26.400] looking at the outdated machines,
[08:26.400 --> 08:29.520] the low number of Linux per million population,
[08:29.520 --> 08:31.640] the barriers to adoption of new technology
[08:31.640 --> 08:34.080] and the funding cycles that we go through.
[08:34.080 --> 08:36.320] So really highlighting those in the manifesto
[08:36.320 --> 08:41.040] and that was very much what was needed then.
[08:41.040 --> 08:43.080] Obviously since then the political landscape
[08:43.080 --> 08:44.400] has changed quite significantly.
[08:44.400 --> 08:46.280] We've got a new government.
[08:46.280 --> 08:48.240] We currently haven't got a national cancer plan,
[08:48.240 --> 08:51.320] but obviously Ashley Dalton, the MP for Lancashire
[08:51.320 --> 08:53.520] is obviously developing a new cancer plan.
[08:53.520 --> 08:56.200] I'll be really looking forward to reading that.
[08:56.200 --> 08:58.640] And I think where AXREM comes in
[08:58.640 --> 09:02.040] and where the manifesto comes in is highlighting
[09:02.040 --> 09:04.000] myself and David and all the other members
[09:04.000 --> 09:06.280] of the special focus group are on the ground
[09:06.280 --> 09:08.680] visiting NHS sites day in, day out.
[09:08.720 --> 09:11.600] We're getting feedback from the staff in the NHS.
[09:11.600 --> 09:15.160] We're seeing what's needed and having AXREM
[09:15.160 --> 09:19.720] as a voice to push forward what we're seeing
[09:19.720 --> 09:22.160] and put that on a plate so that other members
[09:22.160 --> 09:25.120] and we can support staff in the NHS
[09:25.120 --> 09:27.600] and the NHS to adopt the new technologies
[09:27.600 --> 09:31.600] and to almost reflect to say that we see the problems
[09:31.600 --> 09:34.080] that they see and we're trying to come up
[09:34.080 --> 09:36.440] with a solution as well and join voices really.
[09:37.400 --> 09:39.080] What do you think, David?
[09:39.080 --> 09:40.520] Because obviously you've come on board
[09:40.520 --> 09:42.840] since we released the manifesto.
[09:42.840 --> 09:44.120] You've been great in supporting it
[09:44.120 --> 09:46.160] in the discussions we've had with MPs,
[09:46.160 --> 09:47.920] with Radiotherapy UK.
[09:47.920 --> 09:50.400] And I guess you're the cup holder, if you like,
[09:50.400 --> 09:52.000] of the manifesto going forward.
[09:52.000 --> 09:54.280] And I see you're at the cutting edge as well
[09:54.280 --> 09:57.040] of technology and seeing the changes to the NHS.
[09:58.120 --> 10:00.280] Do you think that the manifesto is still relevant today
[10:00.280 --> 10:02.600] as it was when we launched it a couple of years ago?
[10:02.600 --> 10:03.880] In all honesty, I would say yes.
[10:03.920 --> 10:06.480] I think what we covered at that point in time
[10:06.480 --> 10:07.960] is still a huge number of the challenges
[10:07.960 --> 10:08.800] that we face today.
[10:08.800 --> 10:10.520] And although we are seeing progress,
[10:10.520 --> 10:12.240] I think we still have a long way to go
[10:12.240 --> 10:13.160] in a number of areas.
[10:13.160 --> 10:14.960] And they're not necessarily things
[10:14.960 --> 10:16.280] that are gonna be solved quickly.
[10:16.280 --> 10:18.160] When we look at the staffing side of things
[10:18.160 --> 10:20.320] or even implementing new technology,
[10:20.320 --> 10:21.440] there's lots of other pieces
[10:21.440 --> 10:23.280] that are needed to enable that.
[10:23.280 --> 10:24.920] And it isn't a quick fix.
[10:24.920 --> 10:27.080] It's not a simple throwing of money at something.
[10:27.080 --> 10:29.840] And that's where the work we've done around this cancer plan
[10:29.840 --> 10:31.560] I think becomes increasingly important
[10:31.560 --> 10:33.840] because we have to acknowledge
[10:33.840 --> 10:37.000] that there is no immediate solution
[10:37.000 --> 10:39.960] where we click our fingers and everything is great tomorrow.
[10:39.960 --> 10:41.920] But what we need to do is we need to work together
[10:41.920 --> 10:44.800] to make sure that in 18 months, two years, five years,
[10:44.800 --> 10:46.440] 10 years, we're always in a better place
[10:46.440 --> 10:47.960] than where we were before that.
[10:47.960 --> 10:50.720] And I think that's kind of where this plan goes
[10:50.720 --> 10:53.160] by identifying sort of the short-term
[10:53.160 --> 10:54.920] and long-term aspects of this.
[10:54.920 --> 10:56.960] I mean, if we look relatively recently,
[10:56.960 --> 10:58.720] we've had this funding for machine replacements,
[10:58.720 --> 11:00.240] which is a great step.
[11:00.240 --> 11:03.400] And that has enabled centers to replace aging equipment
[11:03.400 --> 11:05.840] with newer machines with better capability
[11:05.840 --> 11:07.640] and more efficiency.
[11:07.640 --> 11:09.080] That's progress at the end of the day,
[11:09.080 --> 11:10.720] but we need to keep this progress.
[11:10.720 --> 11:13.560] And I think that's where the manifesto really looks
[11:13.560 --> 11:15.480] at some of the more long-term challenges
[11:15.480 --> 11:16.400] that we need to work on.
[11:16.400 --> 11:19.520] So from my side, I would say that, yes,
[11:19.520 --> 11:21.120] a lot of the core range of that
[11:21.120 --> 11:23.440] are still very much the core aims today.
[11:23.440 --> 11:26.360] But I think we also have to see the successes
[11:26.360 --> 11:27.720] and the wins we have along the way.
[11:27.720 --> 11:30.080] But at the end of the day, improve the quality of care
[11:30.080 --> 11:33.280] that we can provide patients in the immediate future.
[11:34.320 --> 11:35.400] I think another piece,
[11:35.400 --> 11:37.440] just to highlight from the group perspective as well,
[11:37.440 --> 11:41.000] is that from our XRAM special focus group
[11:41.000 --> 11:42.120] within radiotherapy,
[11:42.120 --> 11:43.480] we're very well represented
[11:43.480 --> 11:45.960] across the treatment machine manufacturers,
[11:45.960 --> 11:49.680] the distributors who supply everything from dosimetry,
[11:49.680 --> 11:53.520] surface guided radiotherapy, and all the ancillary devices.
[11:54.360 --> 11:55.920] We have great coverage across that.
[11:55.920 --> 11:58.320] And I think not only are we well represented
[11:58.320 --> 11:59.240] in terms of companies,
[11:59.240 --> 12:01.480] but I think we have a great group of people in the room
[12:01.480 --> 12:04.520] that we sit together and everybody leaves their hat
[12:04.520 --> 12:05.640] at the door when we walk in.
[12:05.640 --> 12:09.560] And we work together to really look at how we work together
[12:09.560 --> 12:13.360] to bring the quality of care as a whole up
[12:13.360 --> 12:16.280] rather than just for the benefit of our own manufacturer.
[12:16.280 --> 12:18.840] And I think that's a really key and important thing
[12:18.840 --> 12:21.160] that from speaking to my colleagues in other regions,
[12:21.160 --> 12:22.880] it doesn't happen elsewhere.
[12:22.880 --> 12:24.320] And I think that's hugely valuable
[12:24.320 --> 12:28.040] that we can look at trends and technology as a whole
[12:28.040 --> 12:30.400] rather than a vendor specific things
[12:30.400 --> 12:32.520] and how we can then implement that across the NHS
[12:32.520 --> 12:33.360] and beyond.
[12:33.360 --> 12:35.560] So yeah, I think the work that we've done
[12:35.560 --> 12:37.360] up until this point has been brilliant
[12:37.360 --> 12:40.320] and we're already starting to see the benefits of this.
[12:40.320 --> 12:43.600] And I think that theme needs to continue moving forwards.
[12:43.600 --> 12:45.720] And I think we have the right people in place to do that.
[12:45.720 --> 12:48.880] So yeah, I think thank you for your work up until this point
[12:48.880 --> 12:50.320] and thank you for your ongoing support
[12:50.320 --> 12:52.640] because you've played a key part of this.
[12:52.640 --> 12:54.840] It's all part and I think you've hit a couple of nails
[12:54.840 --> 12:55.680] on the head there.
[12:55.680 --> 12:56.680] It's about partnership.
[12:56.680 --> 12:59.560] And I've always felt as being part of AXREM
[12:59.560 --> 13:01.120] and the Special Focus Group,
[13:01.120 --> 13:02.960] we're actually playing our part in radiotherapy.
[13:02.960 --> 13:06.000] It's not just about selling bits of kit in and out
[13:06.000 --> 13:08.880] and working for our respective companies.
[13:08.880 --> 13:10.040] It's actually playing our part
[13:10.040 --> 13:12.360] in the radiotherapy community.
[13:12.360 --> 13:16.600] And sort of, yes, it's great that we've had some great wins
[13:16.600 --> 13:17.880] and we've been part of those great wins
[13:17.880 --> 13:20.320] that the 70 million funding that you mentioned,
[13:20.320 --> 13:22.200] but it's really how we evolved going forward.
[13:22.200 --> 13:25.040] And I think you and I know as the members know
[13:25.040 --> 13:29.320] that changes in radiotherapy take a while to take effect
[13:29.320 --> 13:31.320] because building bunkers, installing Linux,
[13:31.320 --> 13:34.080] commissioning machines, installing software,
[13:34.080 --> 13:36.360] delivering new phantoms and delivering new treatment
[13:36.360 --> 13:39.520] techniques, these will take time and you need a plan
[13:39.520 --> 13:41.200] because otherwise in radiotherapy,
[13:41.200 --> 13:43.560] you're gonna treat today what you treated yesterday.
[13:43.560 --> 13:45.720] You're gonna treat exactly the same tomorrow.
[13:45.720 --> 13:47.520] And yet everything's moving forward
[13:47.520 --> 13:51.240] and that's as a mechanism and a realization to adopt that
[13:51.240 --> 13:54.760] within NHS, then I think it could be a bit
[13:54.760 --> 13:56.960] of a shame and especially as we're seeing
[13:56.960 --> 13:59.080] the cancer incident increasing year on year
[13:59.080 --> 14:02.000] and everyone knows that it's a growing burden.
[14:02.000 --> 14:06.320] And one thing I do seem to remember was the diagnostic hubs,
[14:06.320 --> 14:09.960] the sort of the big policy announcements
[14:09.960 --> 14:12.920] around the diagnostic hubs, which was really, really good
[14:12.920 --> 14:15.000] because imagine if you're a cancer patient
[14:15.000 --> 14:16.720] or you suspect you've got cancer,
[14:16.720 --> 14:18.680] being able to go to a diagnostic hub
[14:18.680 --> 14:21.840] and have an answer sooner rather than later is a good thing.
[14:21.840 --> 14:23.880] But if you are unfortunate enough to have cancer,
[14:23.880 --> 14:28.000] but then have to go into that waiting track for treatment,
[14:28.000 --> 14:29.960] that sort of 62 days.
[14:29.960 --> 14:31.800] And I think that's where we can play our part
[14:31.800 --> 14:33.760] because what annoys me more than anything
[14:33.760 --> 14:37.880] is seeing someone important talking about radiotherapy
[14:37.880 --> 14:40.360] stood next to a CT machine or an MRI machine
[14:40.360 --> 14:43.320] because that just really demonstrates that they don't get it
[14:43.320 --> 14:45.400] and they don't get the value that radiotherapy offers
[14:45.400 --> 14:49.000] to cancer patients and how it's a really good treatment
[14:49.000 --> 14:50.840] technique for cancer.
[14:51.600 --> 14:54.320] And just picking up in the manifesto
[14:54.320 --> 14:57.000] on some kind of facts and figures.
[14:57.000 --> 15:00.320] So this one, literally, whenever I hear this,
[15:00.320 --> 15:02.120] I watch like Celebrity Bayhoff and stuff.
[15:02.120 --> 15:04.360] And at the end of it, it says one in two people
[15:04.360 --> 15:05.880] will develop cancer in their life.
[15:05.880 --> 15:09.000] You just think, wow, so someone in my household,
[15:09.000 --> 15:11.520] you know, well, probably two people in my household
[15:11.520 --> 15:12.520] one day may have cancer.
[15:12.520 --> 15:14.920] And that actually just puts goosebumps on my head,
[15:14.920 --> 15:16.480] but it's just one of those figures I think,
[15:16.480 --> 15:19.400] wow, I can't believe one in two people would develop cancer.
[15:19.400 --> 15:21.120] But people live longer with cancer.
[15:21.120 --> 15:24.720] Survival in the UK has doubled in the last 40 years.
[15:24.720 --> 15:28.960] Cancer is growing twice as fast as other diseases
[15:28.960 --> 15:32.560] and it's likely to become the leading cause of death globally
[15:32.560 --> 15:33.760] in just a few decades.
[15:33.760 --> 15:36.320] That's a really scary fact.
[15:36.320 --> 15:38.320] Radiotherapy is of direct benefit
[15:38.320 --> 15:41.400] to 50% of all cancer patients.
[15:41.400 --> 15:45.480] But analysis suggests that up to 24,000 people
[15:45.480 --> 15:48.280] are not receiving the radiotherapy they need
[15:48.320 --> 15:50.480] as part of their cancer treatment.
[15:50.480 --> 15:52.520] And that kind of leads me onto a question
[15:52.520 --> 15:55.720] that last October, the government announced
[15:55.720 --> 15:59.080] 70 million funding in radiotherapy.
[15:59.080 --> 16:01.920] You guys work the other side of the fence
[16:01.920 --> 16:03.800] of, you know, seeing the funding.
[16:03.800 --> 16:05.640] What's your kind of update on that?
[16:05.640 --> 16:07.880] Are you seeing that funding come through?
[16:07.880 --> 16:09.520] Are you seeing plans for that funding?
[16:09.520 --> 16:10.880] Is there a structured approach
[16:10.880 --> 16:12.560] to that funding being deployed?
[16:13.680 --> 16:16.280] Yeah, I mean, I have to take that to start, David,
[16:16.280 --> 16:18.720] and you sort of chip in or hand over.
[16:18.720 --> 16:22.600] But I mean, obviously, any funding is really welcome.
[16:22.600 --> 16:25.560] The machine's a very big capital piece of equipment.
[16:25.560 --> 16:28.600] They take a long time, a lot of planning to put in,
[16:28.600 --> 16:31.320] to commission, to use before they actually treat a patient.
[16:31.320 --> 16:34.680] So you're talking almost sort of 12 months in the whole,
[16:34.680 --> 16:36.120] from sort of pressing the button
[16:36.120 --> 16:37.240] and saying we want a new LINAC
[16:37.240 --> 16:38.920] to actually delivering it and treating the patient.
[16:38.920 --> 16:40.640] This is roughly a 12-month process
[16:40.640 --> 16:42.960] of planning of staff working overtime,
[16:42.960 --> 16:44.840] particularly if they haven't got any breakout bunkers.
[16:44.880 --> 16:47.400] So it was an amazing success
[16:47.400 --> 16:49.400] and really pleased to have got funding.
[16:49.400 --> 16:52.520] But it's that key word before it, the sustained funding,
[16:52.520 --> 16:55.440] because whilst these machines are being replaced,
[16:55.440 --> 16:57.480] the next set of machines are reaching the end of their life
[16:57.480 --> 16:59.720] and it needs to, and they're gonna be in the same position.
[16:59.720 --> 17:01.680] And I mentioned doing what we did yesterday, today,
[17:01.680 --> 17:03.680] and tomorrow, we're gonna be back in that same position.
[17:03.680 --> 17:06.080] So it very much needs to be sustained
[17:06.080 --> 17:08.280] and it needs to be linked to a national cancer plan
[17:08.280 --> 17:10.000] where we're looking at,
[17:10.000 --> 17:12.320] that you mentioned the increase in the volume of patients.
[17:12.320 --> 17:13.560] Patients are living longer,
[17:13.600 --> 17:17.080] which means patients are having more comorbidities
[17:17.080 --> 17:18.080] when they're coming for treatment.
[17:18.080 --> 17:21.600] So the treatment, it's taking longer because it takes,
[17:21.600 --> 17:24.320] I was in a hospital last week where they were saying
[17:24.320 --> 17:26.640] that the standard 15-minute treatment slot
[17:26.640 --> 17:27.600] isn't actually long enough
[17:27.600 --> 17:29.320] to treat some of their patients,
[17:29.320 --> 17:31.960] purely because you've got to bring them in down the maze,
[17:31.960 --> 17:33.480] set them up on the couch.
[17:33.480 --> 17:36.200] And that takes time if you've got patients with dementia
[17:36.200 --> 17:38.360] or comorbidities or cardiovascular problems,
[17:38.360 --> 17:40.800] renal problems, you need to spend more time
[17:40.800 --> 17:42.440] with those patients setting them up
[17:42.440 --> 17:44.600] to make radiotherapy effective.
[17:44.600 --> 17:47.400] So it's kind of like a double whammy on both sides, really.
[17:49.400 --> 17:52.320] It's great for funding, but we've got this onslaught
[17:52.320 --> 17:54.800] of the constant waves of patients coming through
[17:54.800 --> 17:57.920] and it's how we manage those going forward.
[17:57.920 --> 18:00.920] And Dan, sorry, something that I talk about
[18:00.920 --> 18:02.960] sound like an absolute broken record
[18:02.960 --> 18:05.760] is that long-term sustainable funding.
[18:05.760 --> 18:09.200] And we see that trusts wait for central funding.
[18:09.200 --> 18:12.480] So in diagnostics, we had that 200 million.
[18:12.480 --> 18:14.360] Obviously there's been more announcements
[18:14.360 --> 18:16.720] and you've got your 70 million.
[18:16.720 --> 18:21.560] But trusts need to put a percentage of their annual funding
[18:21.560 --> 18:24.880] into radiotherapy and imaging
[18:24.880 --> 18:28.040] because our age profile of machines in the UK
[18:28.040 --> 18:29.960] is one of the lowest in Europe.
[18:29.960 --> 18:33.360] And as having our fantastic NHS,
[18:33.360 --> 18:35.440] that should not be the case.
[18:35.440 --> 18:38.520] So that's what I'm kind of really banging my head
[18:38.520 --> 18:40.200] against the brick wall sometimes saying,
[18:40.200 --> 18:42.720] come on, we need to have long-term sustainable funding.
[18:42.720 --> 18:45.120] And we can't rely upon announcements
[18:45.120 --> 18:49.000] every two or three years on a big central funding.
[18:49.000 --> 18:53.160] It's known as the Linnach Fairy in the radiotherapy world.
[18:53.160 --> 18:54.960] Everyone gets very excited about the Linnach Fairy
[18:54.960 --> 18:57.360] coming round and disappointed
[18:57.360 --> 18:59.520] when the Linnach Fairy doesn't turn up.
[18:59.520 --> 19:01.920] And it's kind of that feast of famine mindset.
[19:01.920 --> 19:04.640] And it must be so difficult for CFOs of trusts
[19:04.640 --> 19:08.240] to plan out their spending when there's pressure on budgets
[19:08.240 --> 19:12.720] at every angle and sort of hoping or planning
[19:12.720 --> 19:15.720] that you might get your Linnach paid for centrally
[19:15.720 --> 19:18.560] so that money that you were re-infesting can go elsewhere.
[19:18.560 --> 19:21.040] But it's obvious that budgets are completely stretched
[19:21.040 --> 19:22.960] across the NHS.
[19:22.960 --> 19:25.680] But the fact that radiotherapy is so cost-effective
[19:25.680 --> 19:27.520] and treats so many patients,
[19:28.520 --> 19:29.360] that's why it needs to be
[19:29.360 --> 19:32.600] on a national centrally funded basis really
[19:32.600 --> 19:35.040] to make it sustainable coupled together
[19:35.040 --> 19:36.720] with a national cancer plan.
[19:36.720 --> 19:38.120] And then we can get the best outcomes.
[19:39.120 --> 19:42.120] I mean, when we put the Linnachs into the departments,
[19:42.120 --> 19:45.160] it's a real draw on staffing time.
[19:45.160 --> 19:49.600] You're taking key clinical staff away to attend meetings
[19:49.600 --> 19:52.080] on design and construction,
[19:52.080 --> 19:53.760] how they're gonna manage the capacity
[19:53.760 --> 19:55.400] while the installation's going on.
[19:55.400 --> 19:58.760] I mean, I'd much rather those staff that are dedicated
[19:58.760 --> 20:01.120] and skilled, highly skilled in treating patients
[20:01.120 --> 20:02.400] are focused on treating patients.
[20:02.400 --> 20:04.240] And then the central funding takes care
[20:04.240 --> 20:06.960] of the implementation of the Linnachs.
[20:06.960 --> 20:08.320] That would be the sort of best way
[20:08.320 --> 20:10.560] of optimum use of resources all around really.
[20:12.120 --> 20:14.640] And David, so Axfam support
[20:14.640 --> 20:17.160] the All-Party Parliamentary Group for radiotherapy.
[20:17.160 --> 20:18.000] And as part of that,
[20:18.000 --> 20:21.640] obviously we work closely with Radiotherapy UK.
[20:21.640 --> 20:24.920] Why do you think the work they are doing is so important?
[20:25.800 --> 20:28.480] I mean, for me, I'll touch quickly
[20:28.480 --> 20:30.120] upon the previous point as well, if that's okay.
[20:30.120 --> 20:32.880] Just because I think there's another piece around that,
[20:32.880 --> 20:35.200] that obviously as Dan mentioned this,
[20:35.200 --> 20:36.320] this funding has come through,
[20:36.400 --> 20:39.360] which is brilliant that we have the funding for replacement.
[20:39.360 --> 20:41.240] And I think there's two, in my mind,
[20:41.240 --> 20:42.800] there's almost two major parts of this,
[20:42.800 --> 20:45.200] that one, that funding highlighted
[20:45.200 --> 20:47.800] a slight lack of understanding of radiotherapy.
[20:48.880 --> 20:51.920] The money was there, and we've talked about this in the past,
[20:51.920 --> 20:54.520] the money was there just for machine replacements.
[20:54.520 --> 20:56.600] There was nothing in place around enabling works,
[20:56.600 --> 20:59.360] nothing in place around ancillary devices,
[20:59.360 --> 21:02.560] lots of things that are quite unique to radiotherapy
[21:02.560 --> 21:05.400] that are needed to enable the installation of these machines
[21:05.400 --> 21:09.240] that there was no provision there within this funding.
[21:09.240 --> 21:10.080] On the flip side,
[21:10.080 --> 21:12.240] the fact that radiotherapy is making headlines
[21:12.240 --> 21:13.880] and there is money, I think is brilliant
[21:13.880 --> 21:16.280] because that then starts to create
[21:16.280 --> 21:18.720] a little bit more awareness around radiotherapy.
[21:18.720 --> 21:21.080] And I think that is what we need in many ways
[21:21.080 --> 21:24.480] is an increased awareness and more knowledge
[21:24.480 --> 21:26.880] of the fact that we don't have a plan around this replacement
[21:26.880 --> 21:28.840] and a long-term view of what we need to do.
[21:28.840 --> 21:32.720] So yeah, for me, I think there's a really important piece
[21:32.720 --> 21:34.960] there that the funding is very much appreciated
[21:34.960 --> 21:37.640] and every department who has benefited from that
[21:37.640 --> 21:40.160] will be able to deliver newer technologies to their patients,
[21:40.160 --> 21:42.080] which is brilliant news.
[21:42.080 --> 21:44.520] On the flip side, it has caused lots of complications
[21:44.520 --> 21:47.640] because the funding didn't necessarily encompass everything
[21:47.640 --> 21:50.640] that they actually need to enable the installation,
[21:50.640 --> 21:53.160] testing and delivery of these machines to patients.
[21:53.160 --> 21:57.720] So yeah, I just thought that's a piece to add on that front.
[21:57.720 --> 21:58.880] And then, as you say,
[21:58.880 --> 22:00.600] when we moved towards Radiotherapy UK,
[22:00.600 --> 22:02.960] I think it's a really strong connection.
[22:02.960 --> 22:06.040] Many of the ACTRA members are also part of that
[22:06.040 --> 22:08.040] Radiotherapy UK task force.
[22:08.040 --> 22:10.560] So there's a lot of familiarity from our side
[22:10.560 --> 22:11.400] between the two.
[22:11.400 --> 22:14.480] And there, it's more around the charities.
[22:14.480 --> 22:16.240] We have a lot of political engagement with them
[22:16.240 --> 22:17.560] and the APBG.
[22:17.560 --> 22:21.800] So I was fortunate, I think it was last month now,
[22:21.800 --> 22:23.240] for Gabler's into one almost,
[22:23.240 --> 22:27.120] but we went to Coles House with Tim Farron for,
[22:27.120 --> 22:29.360] and that was around the cancer plan.
[22:29.360 --> 22:31.560] And we had, I was there to represent industry
[22:31.560 --> 22:33.960] as the leader of the Radiotherapy Special Focus Group.
[22:33.960 --> 22:35.560] We have patient advocates.
[22:35.560 --> 22:37.440] We have people from the ICBs.
[22:37.440 --> 22:40.520] And we really talked around different attributes
[22:40.520 --> 22:43.040] of that cancer plan that needs to be addressed
[22:43.040 --> 22:47.080] and the view from different areas of Radiotherapy
[22:47.080 --> 22:49.240] as to the challenges and how we need to come together
[22:49.240 --> 22:51.320] to better deliver that cancer plan.
[22:51.320 --> 22:53.960] And I think for me, that was a really important piece.
[22:53.960 --> 22:56.400] And that's where we have a lot of crossover
[22:56.400 --> 22:58.720] between ACTRA and Radiotherapy UK.
[22:58.720 --> 23:00.640] And I think it's positive
[23:00.640 --> 23:02.600] because for me, we all need to be pulling
[23:02.600 --> 23:03.840] in the same direction.
[23:03.840 --> 23:05.920] If as a special focus group at ACTRA,
[23:05.920 --> 23:08.360] we're asking for something vastly different
[23:08.360 --> 23:10.800] to the work we do with Radiotherapy UK,
[23:10.800 --> 23:12.720] then we kind of send a mixed message,
[23:12.720 --> 23:16.320] but that combined approach is really, really powerful.
[23:16.320 --> 23:17.840] And I think with ACTRA,
[23:17.840 --> 23:20.640] we have much closer connections to NHS England
[23:20.640 --> 23:23.880] and NHS supply chain and the sort of procurement landscape
[23:23.880 --> 23:26.240] and funding landscape than we sometimes do
[23:26.240 --> 23:29.160] with Radiotherapy UK.
[23:29.160 --> 23:30.680] I think with Radiotherapy UK,
[23:30.680 --> 23:33.280] we have more political aspects
[23:33.280 --> 23:34.880] where we spend a lot of time in parliament
[23:34.880 --> 23:35.960] doing stuff with them.
[23:35.960 --> 23:37.680] And the two really compliment each other.
[23:37.680 --> 23:40.760] And I think for me, it's that joined up approach of,
[23:40.760 --> 23:42.120] we're not duplicating work,
[23:42.120 --> 23:44.240] but we're supporting each other,
[23:44.240 --> 23:46.360] I think has a really positive effect overall
[23:46.360 --> 23:48.640] and it kind of brings value in different areas.
[23:48.640 --> 23:51.720] So from my perspective and from a brain lab side,
[23:51.720 --> 23:54.400] it's really valuable to be part of both of those groups
[23:54.400 --> 23:56.440] because both bring their own value.
[23:56.440 --> 23:58.240] And I'm sure for Dan, it's very similar.
[23:58.800 --> 24:01.280] I'll let him have any thoughts that he has,
[24:01.280 --> 24:03.000] but yeah, the work that we do over there
[24:03.000 --> 24:04.440] is really, really good as well.
[24:04.440 --> 24:05.840] And I think at the end of the day,
[24:05.840 --> 24:07.560] what we're trying to do as a group
[24:07.560 --> 24:10.080] is really just improve the quality of care
[24:10.080 --> 24:12.200] at the end of the day for patients.
[24:12.200 --> 24:14.920] As manufacturers, yes, ultimately new technology
[24:14.920 --> 24:17.160] benefits us, that is part of this,
[24:17.160 --> 24:19.640] but the reality is, as you say,
[24:19.640 --> 24:22.240] cancer is going to impact everybody's life at some point,
[24:22.240 --> 24:23.840] whether it's themself or a family member.
[24:23.840 --> 24:26.600] And I think that's where we do take our corporate hat off
[24:26.600 --> 24:27.600] when we go into these rooms
[24:27.600 --> 24:30.200] and we think about how can we improve this as a whole.
[24:31.080 --> 24:32.360] So yeah, I think for me,
[24:32.360 --> 24:35.160] it's a really, really important piece to combine those two.
[24:36.080 --> 24:39.680] And then seeing, when you see Pat Price in the news,
[24:39.680 --> 24:41.600] I mean, she's absolutely fantastic.
[24:41.600 --> 24:43.120] What an ambassador for radiotherapy.
[24:43.120 --> 24:45.800] And like I see her on the BBC,
[24:45.800 --> 24:47.760] you see the articles in the Guardian.
[24:47.760 --> 24:49.000] It's really powerful stuff.
[24:49.000 --> 24:52.040] And Professor Pat Price, she gets radiotherapy.
[24:52.040 --> 24:53.360] She gets the political landscape.
[24:53.360 --> 24:55.360] She knows what needs to be done.
[24:55.400 --> 24:57.720] And Tim Farron is a great MP
[24:57.720 --> 25:00.480] and a great leader of the APPG for radiotherapy.
[25:00.480 --> 25:02.680] And he's really open, honest,
[25:02.680 --> 25:05.800] and again, he gets radiotherapy.
[25:05.800 --> 25:09.600] He'd never have a photo of himself against a CT or an MRI
[25:09.600 --> 25:10.560] talking about radiotherapy.
[25:10.560 --> 25:11.640] He really understands it.
[25:11.640 --> 25:16.200] And I'm really sort of proud to be associated with him.
[25:16.200 --> 25:17.040] When I see him on telly,
[25:17.040 --> 25:18.960] even when I'm sat down with my family
[25:18.960 --> 25:20.840] and I see him on TV, I sort of tell my family,
[25:20.840 --> 25:22.920] I know Tim Farron, he's fantastic.
[25:22.920 --> 25:25.200] And I know Pat Price, he's amazing.
[25:26.040 --> 25:28.240] It's a really good connection to have, definitely.
[25:28.240 --> 25:31.240] And just to finally add to this part of the conversation
[25:31.240 --> 25:35.560] is we actually, as AXREM on behalf of radiotherapy members
[25:35.560 --> 25:37.840] wrote to the minister
[25:37.840 --> 25:39.200] at the Department of Health and Social Care.
[25:39.200 --> 25:41.480] And I've actually this week received a response
[25:41.480 --> 25:43.600] from Ashley Dalton, MP,
[25:43.600 --> 25:45.440] the Parliamentary Undersecretary of State
[25:45.440 --> 25:47.600] for Public Health and Prevention.
[25:47.600 --> 25:49.000] And basically in the response,
[25:49.000 --> 25:51.160] they've said that the government is committed to investing
[25:51.160 --> 25:54.320] to improve cancer care and reduce waiting times
[25:54.320 --> 25:56.400] for diagnosis and treatment.
[25:56.400 --> 25:59.200] This includes the allocation of around 1.5 billion
[25:59.200 --> 26:02.520] of capital funding in 2025-26
[26:02.520 --> 26:05.000] for new surgical hubs and diagnostic scanners
[26:05.000 --> 26:08.000] to provide over 30,000 more procedures
[26:08.000 --> 26:11.360] and 1.25 million diagnostic tests.
[26:11.360 --> 26:13.840] Part of the 70 million investment you mentioned
[26:13.840 --> 26:16.320] was allocated to the NHS trusts
[26:16.320 --> 26:18.640] to use for bunker refurbishment.
[26:18.640 --> 26:22.000] All future spending commitments beyond 2025-26
[26:22.000 --> 26:24.240] will be determined in the next phase
[26:25.160 --> 26:26.760] of the spending review process,
[26:26.760 --> 26:28.160] which will conclude in June.
[26:28.160 --> 26:29.960] And we know that we're gonna see
[26:29.960 --> 26:31.440] what that looks like next month.
[26:31.440 --> 26:33.320] So I just thought I'd kind of update you
[26:33.320 --> 26:35.160] and I don't know whether you guys have got anything to say
[26:35.160 --> 26:39.160] about that sort of fairly generic response.
[26:39.160 --> 26:42.160] It's a response, I mean, that's really powerful
[26:42.160 --> 26:44.240] to get a response to be part of a,
[26:44.240 --> 26:46.040] I mean, well done to you, hats off to you
[26:46.040 --> 26:48.160] for getting the response, that's really good.
[26:48.160 --> 26:51.240] And I guess it's so difficult for ministers to,
[26:51.240 --> 26:53.640] it's such a big problem to tackle.
[26:53.640 --> 26:57.600] Vying for money and vying for attention from the budget.
[26:57.600 --> 26:59.640] But it's just the work that,
[26:59.640 --> 27:00.960] I think going back to that previous point,
[27:00.960 --> 27:02.400] the work that Radiotherapy UK does,
[27:02.400 --> 27:04.560] the APPG in keeping radiotherapy
[27:04.560 --> 27:05.880] at the top of everyone's minds,
[27:05.880 --> 27:09.080] getting the MPs to debate it in parliament is fantastic.
[27:09.080 --> 27:10.040] And that's been an achievement
[27:10.040 --> 27:12.800] that radiotherapy have done over the last five years.
[27:14.080 --> 27:15.760] I think looking forward,
[27:15.760 --> 27:17.200] what's happening in radiotherapy now
[27:17.200 --> 27:19.360] and is happening in healthcare in general
[27:19.360 --> 27:24.080] is that the power of data, AI, cloud,
[27:24.080 --> 27:25.760] that's really moving at a pace.
[27:25.760 --> 27:28.080] And the software side of things
[27:28.080 --> 27:30.000] is really driving efficiencies,
[27:30.000 --> 27:32.760] which is what we need in healthcare.
[27:32.760 --> 27:36.360] So doing twice as much with half as many people
[27:36.360 --> 27:38.680] or doing twice as much in half as much time
[27:38.680 --> 27:40.720] will help with the cancer care backlog.
[27:42.560 --> 27:45.720] I'd like to see some more information around reimbursement
[27:45.720 --> 27:48.040] because the way radiotherapy is driven
[27:48.040 --> 27:50.520] is primarily through the reimbursements of treatments
[27:50.520 --> 27:53.480] because that kind of allows or incentivize
[27:53.480 --> 27:55.480] or disincentivize treatments.
[27:55.480 --> 27:58.160] There's a big drive on sustainability within the NHS
[27:58.160 --> 27:59.840] through the evergreen,
[27:59.840 --> 28:03.920] that's gonna become really apparent going forward from 2026.
[28:03.920 --> 28:05.480] And then patient outcomes,
[28:05.480 --> 28:07.480] it's all very well spending money,
[28:07.480 --> 28:08.320] but at the end of the day,
[28:08.320 --> 28:10.000] it's patients and patient outcomes
[28:10.000 --> 28:11.400] and sort of measuring that,
[28:11.400 --> 28:13.360] I think is gonna be really important going forward
[28:13.360 --> 28:16.160] for healthcare systems to measure the money in
[28:16.160 --> 28:18.480] and the outcomes that are expected out.
[28:18.480 --> 28:20.560] And then you can quantify healthcare
[28:20.560 --> 28:22.200] and then drive improvements going forward
[28:22.200 --> 28:25.000] rather than just funding a treadmill
[28:25.000 --> 28:27.200] just to get patients in and get patients out.
[28:28.960 --> 28:29.840] Thank you for that.
[28:29.840 --> 28:32.320] Obviously we've spoken about kind of the current situation
[28:32.320 --> 28:33.600] and we've kind of touched, I suppose,
[28:33.600 --> 28:36.920] on the future of the healthcare landscape generally
[28:36.920 --> 28:39.800] and obviously within radiotherapy.
[28:39.800 --> 28:41.960] But with regards to our special focus group,
[28:41.960 --> 28:43.680] kind of what's next,
[28:43.680 --> 28:45.920] kind of what's your plan for the group?
[28:46.480 --> 28:47.480] David, do you wanna kind of go on that?
[28:47.480 --> 28:49.240] I know obviously it's probably quite a tricky question
[28:49.240 --> 28:51.800] because we haven't got all the answers at the moment
[28:51.800 --> 28:54.680] and obviously nationally things are changing
[28:54.680 --> 28:56.840] and we're waiting for announcements and whatnot,
[28:56.840 --> 29:00.640] but just from obviously your opinion now, what's next?
[29:00.640 --> 29:01.760] I mean, I'll be honest,
[29:01.760 --> 29:04.720] I think some of the things that we've already touched upon,
[29:04.720 --> 29:06.000] not necessarily in this call,
[29:06.000 --> 29:08.920] but as a group around the patient advocacy
[29:08.920 --> 29:10.240] and patient awareness,
[29:10.240 --> 29:14.160] because I think we're at a stage where radiotherapy
[29:14.160 --> 29:16.240] is still not necessarily a taboo,
[29:16.240 --> 29:18.760] but a relatively unknown topic for so many people.
[29:18.760 --> 29:20.840] And when we look at the cancer incidence rate
[29:20.840 --> 29:24.280] and the percentage of people that should have radiotherapy
[29:24.280 --> 29:27.280] as part of their treatment pathway,
[29:27.280 --> 29:31.520] if you mention chemotherapy to someone, they know what it is.
[29:31.520 --> 29:34.600] If you mention immunotherapy, people know what it is.
[29:34.600 --> 29:37.840] They don't know in detail, but they have a pretty good idea.
[29:37.840 --> 29:39.160] If you mention radiotherapy,
[29:39.160 --> 29:41.040] it's this huge unknown at this stage.
[29:41.040 --> 29:43.880] And I think we have patient advocates like Andy Tudor,
[29:44.480 --> 29:48.360] who are really talking about how good radiotherapy was
[29:48.360 --> 29:50.360] from a personal perspective relative to surgery.
[29:50.360 --> 29:53.840] And at the end of the day, it's not one size fits all.
[29:53.840 --> 29:56.360] Everybody has to have their own treatment journey.
[29:56.360 --> 29:59.640] But I think creating an awareness around this as an option
[29:59.640 --> 30:01.520] and as a positive option is good,
[30:01.520 --> 30:03.360] because I mean, as humans,
[30:03.360 --> 30:06.600] we're always told how bad radiation is and how to stay away.
[30:06.600 --> 30:09.600] And I think if you go past the radiotherapy department,
[30:09.600 --> 30:11.400] you have warning signs everywhere
[30:11.400 --> 30:13.040] and it seems quite a daunting experience.
[30:13.040 --> 30:16.360] So I'd say one big piece is creating that awareness
[30:16.360 --> 30:17.440] so the public are more aware,
[30:17.440 --> 30:19.720] because if the public are more aware, let's be honest,
[30:19.720 --> 30:22.200] MPs are probably also going to be more aware.
[30:22.200 --> 30:25.480] And that's a big piece is that awareness piece
[30:25.480 --> 30:28.800] around radiotherapy in general and the benefits of it.
[30:28.800 --> 30:31.320] I think another thing we've touched upon as well
[30:31.320 --> 30:33.960] is around this sort of puzzle aspect,
[30:33.960 --> 30:36.600] all the components that need to come together
[30:36.600 --> 30:40.240] to really enable a world-class radiotherapy treatment
[30:40.240 --> 30:42.560] or department, it goes beyond just the machines
[30:42.560 --> 30:45.040] or just the software and the staff
[30:45.040 --> 30:47.680] are a hugely important part of this.
[30:47.680 --> 30:52.080] So it's really demonstrating how all of this clicks together
[30:52.080 --> 30:54.880] to actually deliver one overall strong solution.
[30:54.880 --> 30:57.720] And I think if we want to be a leader in healthcare,
[30:57.720 --> 31:00.920] which with the NHS is what we should strive to be,
[31:00.920 --> 31:03.120] we have to really understand
[31:03.120 --> 31:04.480] what we're trying to do first of all.
[31:04.480 --> 31:06.800] And I think that's where there's a lot of potential
[31:06.800 --> 31:09.760] at the moment is generating a better understanding
[31:09.760 --> 31:12.760] whether that is the public or around funding
[31:12.760 --> 31:15.920] or even within the NHS England,
[31:15.920 --> 31:18.280] although obviously with the news of NHS England,
[31:18.280 --> 31:19.720] we'll see what happens there.
[31:21.120 --> 31:24.240] Just as to how we put this together to really deliver
[31:24.240 --> 31:26.600] the right solution to hospitals and therefore
[31:26.600 --> 31:27.840] to the patients at the end of it.
[31:27.840 --> 31:30.480] So for me, there's some of the key points
[31:30.480 --> 31:32.680] that I think we can really focus in on
[31:32.680 --> 31:35.680] and have relatively quick wins in terms of start
[31:35.680 --> 31:39.200] to create that knowledge and the understanding
[31:39.200 --> 31:41.520] of the requirements to move forward.
[31:41.520 --> 31:43.640] Actual moving forward will take a little bit longer
[31:43.640 --> 31:45.680] because that requires funding and a cancer plan,
[31:45.680 --> 31:47.960] but it's putting those pieces in place
[31:47.960 --> 31:49.680] so that we're on that right journey.
[31:49.680 --> 31:52.200] And I think as under Dan's leadership,
[31:52.200 --> 31:53.800] we've kind of got to this point
[31:53.800 --> 31:55.520] that we're moving in that direction.
[31:55.520 --> 31:58.240] Now he's passed the reins over to me
[31:58.240 --> 31:59.760] to make sure we see it through.
[31:59.760 --> 32:01.520] So no pressure and thank you, Dan.
[32:01.520 --> 32:05.040] But yeah, from my side, I think those are a couple
[32:05.040 --> 32:08.000] of the key components as to what we need to really
[32:08.040 --> 32:10.200] keep pushing forward and keep the momentum
[32:10.200 --> 32:12.280] that we're starting to get.
[32:12.280 --> 32:13.120] I agree, David.
[32:13.120 --> 32:15.960] And I think it's like you sort of covered the points there
[32:15.960 --> 32:19.360] that around the puzzle, around all the bits of the puzzle
[32:19.360 --> 32:21.400] that form radiotherapy and the patient journey
[32:21.400 --> 32:22.800] through radiotherapy.
[32:22.800 --> 32:25.640] And it's just, I think we're the right people
[32:25.640 --> 32:28.240] and Actual is the right vehicle to explain that
[32:28.240 --> 32:30.320] and to publicize that.
[32:30.320 --> 32:33.120] Because I think, again, going back to that scenario
[32:33.120 --> 32:35.720] of the right person in front of the wrong machine,
[32:35.720 --> 32:37.200] it just shows a lack of understanding
[32:37.200 --> 32:39.120] and that goes through, as you mentioned to the funding
[32:39.120 --> 32:40.320] that that's just for the equipment,
[32:40.320 --> 32:44.920] not for the room and the time constraints that are involved.
[32:44.920 --> 32:47.160] And so if we sort of put all those bits of the puzzle
[32:47.160 --> 32:50.160] together, that'll help everyone understand radiotherapy
[32:50.160 --> 32:54.600] that it is a ship that needs to be on a course
[32:54.600 --> 32:56.680] and to change the course does take time.
[32:56.680 --> 32:58.800] But if you plan ahead and you've got a plan,
[32:58.800 --> 33:01.080] we can change the course and we can adopt new technology
[33:01.080 --> 33:03.000] and be more nimble.
[33:03.000 --> 33:06.640] But I think it's our role to put forward
[33:06.680 --> 33:09.200] that understanding and bringing the patient voice into it,
[33:09.200 --> 33:12.400] I think is really key as well, as you mentioned,
[33:12.400 --> 33:15.680] and with Andy, he's a great patient advocate.
[33:17.000 --> 33:21.200] You sort of, I Googled patient breast cancer
[33:21.200 --> 33:24.520] and you can sort of still even today see blogs
[33:24.520 --> 33:27.600] and questions of patients that have been asking
[33:27.600 --> 33:29.840] what's radiotherapy, is it gonna hurt?
[33:29.840 --> 33:33.760] And it's this kind of stuff that I think we as a community
[33:33.760 --> 33:36.320] can address from our side as manufacturers
[33:36.880 --> 33:39.760] to put forward the facts so people have more informed
[33:39.760 --> 33:41.720] information when they go for treatment
[33:41.720 --> 33:44.560] or they go for their consultation with a clinician.
[33:44.560 --> 33:46.320] I mean, you've mentioned something there actually,
[33:46.320 --> 33:49.680] which reminded me because a shock when I first joined
[33:49.680 --> 33:53.800] BrainLab was the fact that to our UK sales inbox,
[33:53.800 --> 33:55.840] we used to receive questions from patients
[33:55.840 --> 33:58.440] or patients' family members about treatment,
[33:58.440 --> 34:01.440] asking us for advice on what they should have
[34:01.440 --> 34:03.040] or where they should go for these treatments.
[34:03.040 --> 34:05.600] And I was, I'll be honest, I was shocked
[34:05.600 --> 34:09.560] when I first joined that the OEMs were being asked
[34:09.560 --> 34:11.360] these questions from patients and their families
[34:11.360 --> 34:13.240] because there wasn't the resource
[34:13.240 --> 34:15.720] and wasn't the education necessarily there
[34:15.720 --> 34:17.800] for those people to find out what they needed to
[34:17.800 --> 34:19.640] without coming to us.
[34:19.640 --> 34:22.240] And now I kind of take it for granted
[34:22.240 --> 34:23.760] because it happens frequently
[34:23.760 --> 34:25.360] and we see those kinds of messages,
[34:25.360 --> 34:27.560] but yeah, you touched on it then.
[34:27.560 --> 34:30.640] And I think that was something that was really eye-opening
[34:30.640 --> 34:34.120] for me and yeah, there's just isn't that information
[34:34.120 --> 34:35.240] readily available for people.
[34:35.880 --> 34:36.880] So that the patient advocate piece
[34:36.880 --> 34:38.680] becomes increasingly important
[34:38.680 --> 34:40.840] because having someone who's been through it
[34:40.840 --> 34:43.160] and experienced it and can share those experiences
[34:43.160 --> 34:47.480] and almost guidance for patients is so invaluable.
[34:47.480 --> 34:49.720] I mean, it's such a difficult part of your life
[34:49.720 --> 34:52.800] when you were a family member receives that diagnosis
[34:52.800 --> 34:54.840] and your whole world turns upside down,
[34:54.840 --> 34:57.920] but to then struggle to find the information
[34:57.920 --> 34:59.920] that gives you the reassurance
[34:59.920 --> 35:02.200] or the knowledge that you're looking for,
[35:02.200 --> 35:03.520] it must be even more difficult.
[35:03.520 --> 35:07.520] So I think that's a really, really important part of this.
[35:08.440 --> 35:10.560] Yeah, and I think just wrapping up that conversation,
[35:10.560 --> 35:13.760] I think the future of the radiotherapy special focus group
[35:13.760 --> 35:16.440] will very much be driven by the spending review
[35:16.440 --> 35:17.360] and the 10-year plan.
[35:17.360 --> 35:19.160] So obviously next month,
[35:19.160 --> 35:21.720] we're gonna analyze that inwards, outwards,
[35:21.720 --> 35:22.600] backwards, forwards,
[35:22.600 --> 35:26.320] and make sure that we clearly understand the areas of that
[35:26.320 --> 35:27.600] that affect our members.
[35:27.600 --> 35:32.200] And that will very much be brought into our core work
[35:32.600 --> 35:34.480] and how we can support members.
[35:34.480 --> 35:37.040] So just thinking about AXREM more generally now,
[35:37.040 --> 35:38.680] I just wondered if you could both just tell me
[35:38.680 --> 35:41.360] what you think the benefits of being involved in AXREM
[35:41.360 --> 35:43.080] and the special focus group is.
[35:44.280 --> 35:47.280] Yeah, sure, I mean, I'm happy to kick off that.
[35:47.280 --> 35:49.640] So when I first started joining AXREM
[35:49.640 --> 35:51.520] I didn't quite know what it was all about.
[35:51.520 --> 35:53.640] I remember reading the website,
[35:53.640 --> 35:55.280] I talked to my colleague Richard about it
[35:55.280 --> 35:57.080] and talked to my other colleague, Neil Harvey,
[35:57.080 --> 35:58.120] what's all this about.
[35:58.120 --> 35:59.360] I'm interested to go and find out.
[35:59.360 --> 36:01.000] I remember going to the first meetings
[36:01.000 --> 36:04.400] and I was pleasantly surprised how welcoming it was.
[36:04.400 --> 36:06.920] Everyone's completely open and honest and transparent.
[36:06.920 --> 36:09.160] It's a really good format.
[36:09.160 --> 36:11.040] Everyone gets a voice at the table.
[36:11.040 --> 36:13.000] And the more and more meetings I got,
[36:13.000 --> 36:14.640] I got into the rhythm of the meetings
[36:14.640 --> 36:19.280] and understood where the chairman was running meetings,
[36:19.280 --> 36:21.800] what you were trying to drive within the meetings.
[36:21.800 --> 36:23.880] So from a personal point of view
[36:23.880 --> 36:25.520] and my career development point of view,
[36:25.520 --> 36:29.040] it was great to understand how Electa slots in
[36:29.040 --> 36:30.720] with all the other manufacturers.
[36:30.720 --> 36:32.360] But from a company point of view,
[36:32.360 --> 36:36.040] it's really important for me to feed back to the company
[36:36.040 --> 36:39.120] about the marketplace, marketplace developments,
[36:39.120 --> 36:42.000] things that are stopping the adoption of technology.
[36:42.000 --> 36:46.640] You know, we've got the special focus group around AI.
[36:46.640 --> 36:51.120] We've had issues with DCBO 109s, cyber security,
[36:51.120 --> 36:52.040] that sort of thing.
[36:52.040 --> 36:55.960] And for me to explain that internally to Electa
[36:55.960 --> 36:57.000] was quite difficult on my own,
[36:57.000 --> 36:59.000] but being part of the group, I have that information,
[36:59.000 --> 37:00.400] I have that resource.
[37:00.920 --> 37:02.960] We talk about it in the groups and I'm able to feed back.
[37:02.960 --> 37:05.360] And then I'm also able to bring things to the table
[37:05.360 --> 37:08.560] that affect, affecting Electa in the business.
[37:08.560 --> 37:12.080] So it's definitely a two-way street
[37:12.080 --> 37:13.400] from a business point of view,
[37:13.400 --> 37:16.240] but from a personal career development point of view as well.
[37:16.240 --> 37:18.480] What's it been like for you, Dave?
[37:18.480 --> 37:19.560] I mean, I'll be honest,
[37:19.560 --> 37:21.080] I think it's very hard to follow up that
[37:21.080 --> 37:23.200] because I think that was a very good-
[37:23.200 --> 37:26.800] Well, you, for me, I live quite close to London.
[37:26.800 --> 37:28.360] So for me, it's just jumping on a train
[37:28.360 --> 37:29.480] and forcing me into London.
[37:29.480 --> 37:30.920] I know you live a lot further away.
[37:30.920 --> 37:32.680] You make a lot of effort to come down.
[37:32.680 --> 37:35.160] So it must be important to you.
[37:35.160 --> 37:36.000] It is.
[37:36.000 --> 37:37.160] It's invaluable, I would say.
[37:37.160 --> 37:39.160] And for me, the other piece of this is that
[37:39.160 --> 37:40.280] when I first joined BrainLab,
[37:40.280 --> 37:42.400] we were already an XREM member,
[37:42.400 --> 37:44.640] but I feel like we sort of floated on the outskirts.
[37:44.640 --> 37:47.200] We weren't necessarily particularly active in the group
[37:47.200 --> 37:50.360] and we used it more for information and understanding.
[37:50.360 --> 37:52.240] And almost the more I've engaged with it,
[37:52.240 --> 37:53.720] the more I've got out of it.
[37:53.720 --> 37:56.000] And now, I mean, I can say
[37:56.000 --> 37:58.800] we're part of the sustainability special focus group.
[37:58.800 --> 38:02.040] And that for us as a small organization,
[38:02.040 --> 38:03.480] when we look at the evergreen assessments
[38:03.480 --> 38:06.120] and things was incredible.
[38:06.120 --> 38:10.360] We really had very little idea of what was required,
[38:10.360 --> 38:11.400] what we needed to do,
[38:11.400 --> 38:14.040] how we were gonna bring the resources together to do that.
[38:14.040 --> 38:16.480] And for us, that group and that knowledge,
[38:16.480 --> 38:19.120] and especially when we look at some of the openness
[38:19.120 --> 38:21.080] of the bigger manufacturers as well,
[38:21.080 --> 38:22.880] they share a lot of information.
[38:22.880 --> 38:24.480] And it was this sort of combined approach
[38:24.480 --> 38:26.120] of everyone within that group
[38:26.120 --> 38:27.560] was happy to support each other,
[38:27.560 --> 38:30.320] although we're competitors as soon as the tender comes out
[38:30.320 --> 38:31.160] in that environment,
[38:31.160 --> 38:33.000] everybody was willing to share information
[38:33.000 --> 38:34.360] and support each other.
[38:34.360 --> 38:37.000] So that for me was amazing.
[38:37.000 --> 38:38.360] And then when we look at
[38:38.360 --> 38:40.520] the radiotherapy special focus group,
[38:40.520 --> 38:42.320] it's the information and the knowledge sharing
[38:42.320 --> 38:43.920] and the strategy side of things,
[38:43.920 --> 38:46.920] because every company has a different focus
[38:46.920 --> 38:49.480] within what the key part of their organization is,
[38:49.480 --> 38:52.640] whether they're a distributor covering a number of devices
[38:52.640 --> 38:55.640] or a linear manufacturer focused on machines
[38:55.680 --> 38:59.200] or a company specializing in surface guided radiotherapy,
[38:59.200 --> 39:01.000] it doesn't matter what it is,
[39:01.000 --> 39:02.840] we all bring value to these meetings.
[39:02.840 --> 39:04.800] And I think the more people we have,
[39:04.800 --> 39:05.840] the more value we bring
[39:05.840 --> 39:09.160] because we encompass radiotherapy in a greater way.
[39:09.160 --> 39:11.120] We mentioned this puzzle before,
[39:11.120 --> 39:13.840] if people aren't there or we don't have that topic covered,
[39:13.840 --> 39:15.320] we're missing a piece of that puzzle
[39:15.320 --> 39:17.480] and then it cannot be complete.
[39:17.480 --> 39:19.480] And I think that's one of the really important pieces
[39:19.480 --> 39:21.040] for me is as this group's grown,
[39:21.040 --> 39:23.920] I think our knowledge around the area of radiotherapy,
[39:24.400 --> 39:28.720] we also have AGEA who don't manufacture equipment at all,
[39:28.720 --> 39:30.320] they provide managed equipment services,
[39:30.320 --> 39:32.680] which is an increasingly important part
[39:32.680 --> 39:34.320] of the radiotherapy environment as well.
[39:34.320 --> 39:38.280] So it goes beyond just the technology that we all provide,
[39:38.280 --> 39:40.160] there's so many pieces to this.
[39:40.160 --> 39:41.920] And yeah, from my side,
[39:41.920 --> 39:45.280] it's the entirety of that information really,
[39:45.280 --> 39:47.040] it is going to steer the direction
[39:47.040 --> 39:48.240] of radiotherapy to the future.
[39:48.240 --> 39:51.200] So to be part of that means we're part of that steering group
[39:51.200 --> 39:52.880] and to have knowledge and understanding.
[39:53.240 --> 39:55.360] As you say, the sort of market trends
[39:55.360 --> 39:58.280] from a commercial side is also very, very important.
[39:58.280 --> 40:01.960] So yeah, I think there's a human element of,
[40:01.960 --> 40:04.000] I want to know what's going on and I want to make sure
[40:04.000 --> 40:06.080] that we're all working towards a better quality
[40:06.080 --> 40:07.560] of care for the future.
[40:07.560 --> 40:09.040] And there's also the commercial element
[40:09.040 --> 40:11.720] of it is beneficial to the OEMs to be part of that
[40:11.720 --> 40:13.760] because we have better insights of the market,
[40:13.760 --> 40:15.360] we have better knowledge of what's coming up
[40:15.360 --> 40:19.760] and we can steer it in the direction that we need it to go.
[40:20.040 --> 40:23.400] So yeah, it kind of encompasses everything.
[40:23.400 --> 40:27.480] I think it's, my summary would be the more you put in,
[40:27.480 --> 40:29.120] the more you get out in all honesty.
[40:29.120 --> 40:31.760] And do you know what, David, I was just about to say,
[40:31.760 --> 40:35.480] my favorite sentence when I'm speaking to a potential member
[40:35.480 --> 40:37.320] is you get out of ActioM what you put in.
[40:37.320 --> 40:39.040] If you join and you don't get involved,
[40:39.040 --> 40:40.640] you're not going to get anything out of it.
[40:40.640 --> 40:42.000] But the more you get involved,
[40:42.000 --> 40:44.600] the more information you gather and the more useful
[40:44.600 --> 40:47.000] that can be to you and your company.
[40:47.240 --> 40:49.200] You can click that one for free, Sally.
[40:49.200 --> 40:51.240] Don't forget the Christmas too, Sally.
[40:51.240 --> 40:56.240] The Christmas get-togethers are also very, very good.
[40:56.320 --> 40:57.800] So I shall hand over to Mel now
[40:57.800 --> 40:59.880] to lighten the mood a little.
[40:59.880 --> 41:02.160] Yeah, so onto my quirky question, guys.
[41:02.160 --> 41:05.600] So if you had a time machine, would you go to the future
[41:05.600 --> 41:07.800] or would you go back in the past and why?
[41:07.800 --> 41:09.800] So Dan, do you want to go first?
[41:09.800 --> 41:11.320] Yeah, I'd go to the future
[41:11.320 --> 41:14.200] because I think radiotherapy is going to change massively
[41:14.200 --> 41:16.200] over the next three to five years.
[41:16.240 --> 41:20.520] We're on the verge of the next major thing in radiotherapy.
[41:20.520 --> 41:23.440] Everything's kind of set, but more patients than ever,
[41:23.440 --> 41:25.200] patients being diagnosed,
[41:25.200 --> 41:27.800] but more patients to treat with fewer members of staff,
[41:27.800 --> 41:28.640] fewer equipment.
[41:28.640 --> 41:31.560] So it's a real coming together of technology,
[41:31.560 --> 41:33.360] of what we've got established.
[41:33.360 --> 41:35.160] So that's why I'd like to go to the future
[41:35.160 --> 41:36.280] because the next, yeah,
[41:36.280 --> 41:39.280] it's going to be really interesting to be part of it.
[41:39.280 --> 41:40.120] Don't they?
[41:40.120 --> 41:40.960] And David?
[41:40.960 --> 41:43.120] I feel like Dan's given too good a answer there.
[41:43.120 --> 41:44.560] This makes my life very trippy.
[41:44.560 --> 41:45.400] Sorry, I'll-
[41:46.800 --> 41:48.200] I will say to the past,
[41:48.200 --> 41:50.040] just to add some contrast here then,
[41:52.200 --> 41:54.800] music was better, my back ached for this.
[41:56.920 --> 41:59.240] We can go back and make sure they created a plan
[41:59.240 --> 42:01.600] 15 years ago so that we're in a better place tomorrow
[42:01.600 --> 42:02.600] than we are today.
[42:03.760 --> 42:05.080] Yeah, now, as Dan said,
[42:05.080 --> 42:07.760] I think the future is going to be a very exciting place.
[42:07.760 --> 42:11.160] There's so much evolution within radiotherapy at the moment.
[42:11.160 --> 42:13.440] If we look almost every few months,
[42:13.480 --> 42:16.080] there's some new technique or there's something new happening.
[42:16.080 --> 42:16.920] And at the end of the day,
[42:16.920 --> 42:18.120] it's all to benefit patients
[42:18.120 --> 42:20.480] and to improve what we can deliver.
[42:20.480 --> 42:23.080] So yeah, I think the future is bright
[42:23.080 --> 42:25.880] and I think what we're working on right now is really good
[42:25.880 --> 42:29.280] and it will be great to see the benefits of this work
[42:29.280 --> 42:30.360] coming to fruition.
[42:31.320 --> 42:33.800] So yeah, I'd say from a realistic perspective,
[42:33.800 --> 42:37.360] the future is very good and very exciting,
[42:37.360 --> 42:39.880] but for contrast, I'll take a younger back
[42:39.880 --> 42:43.280] and a slightly less weight down the middle from the past.
[42:44.120 --> 42:46.040] And also, if you go back to the past,
[42:46.040 --> 42:48.360] you would have fallen off your bike less.
[42:48.360 --> 42:51.120] Yeah, but then I might have to break bones again.
[42:51.120 --> 42:51.960] Isn't that something?
[42:51.960 --> 42:56.960] Oh, thank you so much for joining us today, David and Dan.
[42:59.560 --> 43:01.320] I think we've got a lot more insight
[43:01.320 --> 43:03.880] into the AXREM Radiotherapy Special Focus Group.
[43:03.880 --> 43:07.440] So a big thank you to Dan and David for joining us today
[43:07.440 --> 43:09.880] and thank you to all of our listeners.
[43:09.880 --> 43:11.680] Join Sally and I again next week
[43:11.680 --> 43:15.000] to speak into Bob Child and Suduf Ali Drake Smith
[43:15.000 --> 43:18.280] regarding the AXREM Imagen IT Special Focus Group.
[43:18.280 --> 43:19.920] If you've enjoyed today's podcast,
[43:19.920 --> 43:21.400] don't forget to hit subscribe
[43:21.400 --> 43:24.000] or feel free to share the podcast with friends.