Talented But Broke: The Hidden Struggle of Actors

Why do so many talented actors never make a living — and what does that have to do with entrepreneurship?

In this episode of the Un-Traditional Entrepreneur Podcast, host Juming Delmas sits down with Lydia Nicole — professional actress, producer, and filmmaker with over 45 years in Hollywood and 100K+ YouTube subscribers — to have the conversation the entertainment industry doesn't want you to hear.

Lydia breaks down why being an actor is being a CEO, what it actually costs to build a career in Hollywood, why Black creatives in particular are set up to fail by not treating their craft as a business, and how habits — not talent — determine who makes it and who goes home broke.

Topics covered:
- Why talented actors stay broke: the real business side nobody talks about
- How much it actually costs to launch an acting career (headshots, training, attorneys, teams)
- Why Black creatives don't invest in their craft — and how to change that
- The trap of paying agencies before you've booked a single job
- Will Smith, Denzel, Michael B. Jordan: what their brand-building teaches every creative entrepreneur
- Why you should start with what you're good at before chasing your dream
- How to build discipline and grit by doing hard work for little to nothing
- Atomic Habits and how building uncomfortable routines creates long-term success
- Lydia Nicole's documentary nominated against Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin, and Quincy Jones — and how she competed with no studio money

If you're an actor, rapper, creative, or anyone chasing a dream with no roadmap — this episode is your blueprint.

The Un-Traditional Entrepreneur Podcast with Juming Delmas. Real talk. No filter.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Being an actor is a business and then we will explain how discipline and characters are built along the way way before you start making the quote unquote acting money. Welcome to the other side of motivation. Alright, what's up everybody? What's going on? What's going on? In this episode, we will break down why so many talented actors never make a living and why businesses relying on interns and virtual assistants struggle to scale and why habits, not talent, determines long-term success. Right now we got special guest, Litia Nicole, who has over 100,000 subscribers on Goku, joining us in the show as a producer from the producer standpoint on some of the biggest mistakes that actors make in this industry and why there's so many broke actors versus actors with money. Welcome to the other side of motivation. So let me ask real quick before we even go too deep into it. Because maybe we start, we kind of started off by first a little bit, just tell us you as an individual, what are you doing? What are you doing in the industry? What is your role now as, you know, in in your in your in your day to day? What does your role look like day-to-day?

SPEAKER_00 1:28

So I am an actress. I've been an I've been a professional actress from 18. I am now 66. Um and in between that, I have taken all kinds of jobs to sustain me, to allow me to continue my acting. So when I started in acting, I came to Los Angeles, had a job at a record company called Casablanca, where I learned a lot about marketing, promotions, publicity, um, and just how to uh handle my money and my business. Because I saw a lot of uh musicians and singers that handed everything over to their management, knew nothing about their money, didn't have a clue, taken down the river. Their managers, uh, a lot of their managers took their money. And so that overdrive.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

People do that shit often all the time. All the time. There's so many things out there. There's so there's so many things out there that get actors to suck into paying for like agencies and and getting them. And you know what? The saying, right? The quickest way to sell the broke people is get rich quick schemes and acting as one of those kind of get rich quick schemes. There's all these agencies out there that's trying to sell them on their services and say, hey, we could do the headshot, we do all this, and blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

They love fools. They love fools, they get rich from fools.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Show do. And you know what? When I was an actor in New York City, I always felt like a fool. Anytime I walked into uh an agency, especially after, because I told you when on our last show, I did like I I was I was spending four to five hours a day in New York City calling different agents. And the way, the way I would know if I'm with if this agent is legitimate or not, is if I walk into that building and there's a whole bunch of motherfuckers just like me. We all sitting here waiting for the same shit. And then they come and they collectively talk to us as a unit. I'm out. I already know this bullshit. I already know this isn't real. I already know these guys are here to collect money.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Well, first of all, an agency should never charge you for something you haven't gotten paid for. If you're paying an agency before you got taken down the artist.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

And most people don't know that. But see, why do broke people, broke actors specifically, fall for the trap of paying for agencies?

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Because we haven't done our homework. We don't know what we're supposed to do. So we're just, oh, that's what I should be doing. I mean, if you don't know any better, you think that's how you're gonna get discovered, right? And we and something about acting, people think that it's it's like a lottery ticket. It's magical. I can make all this money. I if if I can just book that job, I'm gonna book that movie, I'm gonna be a I'm gonna be a famous actor, and then I'm gonna I'm gonna blow up, just like rappers, right? It's the same. Rappers thinking, hey, I got I got some beats, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna blow up, and then everybody's gonna know me. No, it does not work that way. First of all, you wanna know, you wanna be educated. You wanna know your game, you wanna know what, you know, what kind of artist are you? So if I'm talking about acting, what kind of acting do you do? Are you a serious actor? Are you into comedy? What's your genre? And and where do you fit in in that place? Are you what's your brand? I'm I'm real big on your brand. Whether you're an actor or a rapper, what is your brand? Are you selling gangster rap? Are you selling uh uh soft rap? What are you selling? What is your brand? As an actor, I need to know what you sell. So, what acting classes come in.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Yeah, and I'm gonna keep it a butt which because I know we're gonna get on this acting class tip, but I think that, I mean, and I'm a I'm a you know, I was a part of this world too. Like, people like when you think acting, you think I have to just be acting to be an actor. I think that you have to build value, right? I think that value comes into the acting world, like understanding that like it's not about motherfucking, you know, just becoming this great famous actor. There's a lot of shit that goes into acting that people don't even know what the real deal is. And you just you was just about to hit it, right? You was just about to talk about. I say this shit all the time, and I say this on your show. It is like one, being an actor is a business owner. That is a business.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

You are a CEO of your business.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Your name, your name is the brand. Michael B. Jordan, Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Viola Day. That's a brand name, right? That's the name of the fucking brand. And I say this every time. Being a business owner, actor, slash rapper, whatever, is extremely fucking expensive. Most people who get into acting do not know the amount of money that they have to spend as an actor to be an actor and struggle. You talked about classes. We're gonna talk about that. We talked about um travels, you talked about headshots. What's the average price of a headshot today?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

You're looking at a thousand dollars. You're looking at a thousand dollars. That's that's the entry level because if you get a good photographer, it's gonna run you anywhere between six and seven hundred. Then you need a uh hair and makeup person and maybe a stylist. If you don't know how to put your your brand together, you need somebody who can help you. You need somebody who can help you.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

How often should they update that though? How often should they update them hair shots?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

You you update it as much as you change. So for women, if you're always changing your hair, your hair color, you are in trouble because you gotta go in looking like your picture. You can't uh take the shot with long hair and then go the next day and your hair is cropped. Your your picture is what they are calling you in from. So uh some people can have a headshot for two, three years because they're not changing. But some people do drastic pivots to their their face. That that picture has to reflect what you look like today, not 10 years ago. And you'll find a lot of actors that will bring in will be using 10-year-old pictures. It's like, hello? You got gray hair, you don't look nothing like that.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

But people be in delusional land. Some people do really think that they still look something like that. I feel like people change every fucking year. I don't think that people look the same that they looked last year. They they gained a little bit more weight, or they might have lost a little bit more weight. But either way, it doesn't reflect that hair shot.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Right. And some so some people, some people age quickly. Some people don't. That's true. You know, black don't crack. So most of them don't unless they're unless they're doing a lot of partying, um, that's when they that's when you notice the change. If then if they're hanging out too much, they're not sleeping well, they're drinking or they're doing drugs. You see the decline quickly. You see the decline in white people quickly, no matter what.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Yeah. So do you think that's why black people don't invest into like the craft as much? Because they feel like I look young, I'm good, I ain't gotta really invest in that kind of shit. Well, I think I feel like we fall victim of that kind of black comeback.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

This is fantastic. I think we fall. People of color don't understand that they have to invest that this is a business. Because white people know it's a business. We're not taught that. We for some reason we don't uh equate craft with business. It's like, oh, that's nice. You want to sing, go sing in the church. You want to dance, go dance in the the the high school local company. Yeah, cheerleader. They don't they don't see that it is a business. So if it's not a business, why should I invest in it? Hey, I see people acting on time.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

They're broke. Those people who don't want to invest, Lydia, is broke. Say what you want to see.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

No fucking excuse. They're broke. That's no excuse. No excuse. Go get some money. You find money for other things. You find money to party, you find money to have your phone, you find money to do other things that you want. That you want to do something. When you want something, when you want something, you will find a way. So how much do you want to?

SPEAKER_02 10:35

They'll spend a thousand dollars a month on a car payment.$500,$600,$700 a month on apartment.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

That's right. But won't spend it on that. Yes, sir. I know those people. I grew up with those people.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

But it's because people are so focused. And I'm not, I'm being honest. And I was one of them. Black people, when you think acting, when you think rapping, when you think entertainment, it's all about I'm about to be rich. I want to be rich and famous, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Not necessarily what it really takes to get to that shit. Right?

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Well, and part of it is, part of it is if we didn't come from a home where they emphasized saving money, how to save money, what you were doing to get the money, if they were not, if they were not set up to succeed, most are set up to fail because we've been, we have been handed down the welfare mentality. It's a handout. Can you what you got for me for free?

SPEAKER_02 11:33

What you can do for me, yeah. What can you do for free for me?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

What can you do for me for free? Because I can do stuff for you if you pay me. But what you gotta what can you do?

SPEAKER_02 11:42

That's another thing. You they want it for free, but don't want to pay you when it's time to, when you, when you offer something. But and see, that's the thing about like the I think that's why we have so many black broke actors. Like everybody, I got a homeboy who came to me out of no motherfucking way, talking about something he wants to be an actor. I'm like, bruh, where the fuck this came from? Like when I was an actor, when I wanted to be an actor, I knew at 11 years old that I was gonna be an actor. We talked about my goals. My biggest goal was working with Will Smith. And once I attained that goal, I started setting other goals. I think that the biggest issue is people make excuses to not invest into themselves because, especially in the black community, they feel like they are owed their owed everything. So when they come into this industry, they feel like their looks is good enough. You ain't even gotta look good no more. You ain't gotta look good no more. You ain't gotta be tall no more, you gotta be, it's a just what you're fitting the character. And I feel like oftentimes that when I be sitting with some of these, when I used to sit with the actors, they used to always swear to me, they're gonna blow up, they're gonna blow up. That's the only thing that that's on their mind.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

But it's never about like what they get understanding. It's not understanding that to blow up, you have to invest. Uh, good case in point. I've been in, I've been in Hollywood now almost 45 years. I've been in all these different ethnic groups with the Latinos, with the flags, uh, not the Asians, but I've been with a lot of groups. And um, be acting like that. Every season when we're going into awards, Latinos are are mad and they're protesting because they didn't get nominated. Nobody, no Latin people they know got nominated. Blacks are protesting. First of all, to qualify for a nomination, you have to run a campaign. It costs money. Just because you were in a film, the the academy is not gonna go, oh my God, Jumen was so powerful. Let's put him in. No, there's a system. We talk about a structure. There's a structure in Hollywood, there's a strategy. When you that's because it's a business.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

It's Hollywood is a fucking business in itself. Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Let's talk Will Smith. Let's talk Will Smith. Will Smith Will Smith saw that it was a business. And from the time he got it in um uh Fresh Prince of Bel Air, he was navigating the business because as a rapper, he didn't treat it like a business. So he made money and then he lost everything. When he came to Hollywood, he was riding the bus because he was being the creative. You can be a creative, but first you got to be the business owner. And so, because of his um experiences as a rapper, not having the money he made and owing the IRS so much money, he learned the hard way, but he learned quickly. So when he got his show, you talk about somebody investing and somebody learning. He was asking everybody, how you do this, how you do. I want to be, I want to be a big action hero. Who did he go to? He went to Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis. How do you do it? And they schooled him. We need guidance, we need um we need mentors, we need people to guide us along with the investment, along with the money, we need people who can walk us through and say, this is how you do it.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Even as a producer, right? So say that you so when you meet an actor, right? And they're coming into the business and they like, hey, I wanna I want to be an actor, right? If what what kind of shit do they gotta show you? What kind of shit you looking for to know if somebody is a good invested actor, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

When I have the conversation and they don't have pictures, they don't have resumes, but they want to be in the movie, I go, it's not gonna happen. I said you're gonna be. But everybody got pictures. Everybody got pictures and resumes. No, everybody, no, sir. No, everybody does not have pictures and resumes.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

It might not be the best. It might not be the best pictures, but they got pictures.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Yeah, but that's not gonna work, sir. Not gonna work. You gotta have something that says to the producer or the casting director or the director, I like this face. It's not about beauty, it's that there's something to that face that they go, oh my God, this will look great. It's a think of a movie or a TV show or even a short. It's a canvas. It's a moving canvas. If I'm a if I'm a filmmaker, I'm looking to see what colors am I gonna put on my canvas, what's the what's the vibe of the canvas. So I'm looking for actors who are gonna contribute to that canvas. I'm not gonna just hire anybody because they say they want to act. Do you know how many people show up in Hollywood to want to be an actor and then they go home with their tail uh uh you know beneath their legs, they go back home crying, and it's not about talent. Uh, we gotta get that right. You can be the most talented person, but if your packaging isn't together, if you don't show up looking like the character you want to portray, or if your work does not um embody what you do, you're not getting in the door. And if you're lucky enough to get in the door, they're gonna say thank you, goodbye. And you're gonna, and as an actor, you have to, first of all, you gotta be ready. You and you have to have um strong um resistance to the no. You're gonna get so many no's, and it's not personal. You we had talked about this on my show. It's not personal.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

I did five to six hours calls a day for five days a week in New York City and got told no multiple times. I made it a ritual to sit down in the morning, every morning from 9:30 to about 2 p.m. calling up agents and managers to represent but agents to represent me. A lot of work went into that. We mentioned here earlier that acting, being an actor, it's just an entertainer, a rapper, any fucking thing. It's still a business, right? And because it's a business, let's talk about, because you're a business, let's talk about you being the owner as an actor or rapper. You are the owner of that business. You need a fucking team. So let's talk about the teams that you need for an actor.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Hold on, hold on. Before you go to the team and before you go to the agent or the manager, you gotta have your product uh ready to sell. If let's say you're selling ketchup and you want to get it to the stores, you don't just go to the store, you gotta bring them the bottle, you gotta show them what that ketchup looks like, you gotta give them a sample.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

And they already have they they it's you gotta bring them something that they haven't already seen. We don't need another Will Smith.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Well we don't need another Denzel.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

And as actors, we are the package, we're the commodity. So we have to know how to sell ourselves, and it's not just in verb. You know, I can't just talk to you and say, Well, I do this. No, I want to see footage. And it's easy for you to have footage now with your smartphone. You can shoot a scene, you can shoot a monologue, put it up on Instagram or get a little website and put it up and show them your diversity.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

I said all the time, it's expensive. No matter what field you get in, business ownership is expensive because you got to pay people. Everybody look at the money that you know that you can make, but all that money has to still be dispersed out. We talked about it, and you're right. It's all about the person that you bring. What you what package are you bringing? We ain't looking for another Denzel, we ain't looking for another Heath Ledger. The question is, who are you gonna be? And then what team are you gonna start? Like when I think about a team, you already mentioned some of it. You said the manager, you said the agent, but there's other things that there's other things that they have to look at.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

You need a stylist, you need a hairdresser, you need an entertainment attorney, which is important.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

You have to have an entertainment important.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

If you are if you are getting buzz more than anything else, you need that entertainment attorney. More than anything else.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

How much does that shit run you? Even if you put them on the books for like you just you just have them on a retainer, you have to have money on the side for that attorney.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Well, if you have money or whatever you make. What if you're making it? Then you're not gonna have an attorney. I mean, if you do, you're gonna have to pay them thousands of dollars.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

So I'm talking about even as you're building your brand as an actor, you're not just an actor with no team. Because just because you don't see their team does not mean the team doesn't exist. The average actor has the lawyer, the manager, they have a public, they have a publicist, they have an accountant, they have a self-produced content team, they have a marketing team.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah, but all of that comes, hold on, all of that comes after all of that comes after you've been booking. So what we gotta get to this the booking.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

But you still have to you still have to plan that though. Yeah. Because as an actor, you still have to plan it. You can't just say I'm gonna be an actor and worry about this shit later because you're still an actor creating a business plan. Like, all right, this is where I'm gonna start. I know that I need to start off with, I know I need a team and I can't afford the entire team. So, what team do I need first? I need my agent, great. I need my manager, great, I need my attorney, great. These are still people you still have to pay out, except the agent, the agent gets paid when they book the city.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

So that's the manager. So does the manager.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

But the attorney wants that money up front. Because if somebody's writing you a deal, and that's why that's why rappers get fucked over all the time, too. It's because that attorney is key. And when you think about all of these celebrities, just because you don't see Their attorneys, or you don't see their publicists or their teams, doesn't mean they don't exist. Again, being an entertainer is fucking expensive. You need all of these things in order to be put in because what they say, what they say, it's all about who you know. If it's all about who you know in the entertainment industry, obviously you're gonna need a publicist. You're gonna need a PR person. So let's put in the places that you need to be in.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Let's talk about the attorney and the publicist. You gotta do your homework to find out who the right ones are, who really are doing the job. Because just like an agent and a manager, you can sign with an agent, you can sign with a manager. It may not be a good partnership. You want somebody who gets what you do and can move the ball forward for you. You don't because you're believing your biggest. And I have worked with the top of the top, and let me tell you, a lot of them get it wrong as well. They get the wrong agent, the wrong manager, the wrong publicist, and the wrong uh attorney. So it is and and what I find is when you don't do your your due diligence, when you don't interview them, when you don't see, okay, who's on their roster? Oh, I know Michael B. Let me call Michael B. How's this how's this lawyer working for you? What are the last three deals they did for you? How did that turn out? Um do you have confidence in them? Yeah, you ask questions of people you know who has who either has them or had them. Um I um I uh uh because it's coming to mind, Bill Cosby, uh uh forget what you know about him, all the the stuff he's done, but years ago, I I got to uh know Bill Cosby and work with him, and it was a it was, you know, I had a different relationship with Bill, but I was doing stand-up at the time, and we and I was and I had a group. I I I was one of the producers of the group, and we were doing stand-up, and so we were looking for a manager, and we got this manager who used to rep Bill. So I reached out to Bill and I say, Bill, we you know, we got with so-and-so. He said, run, run as fast as you can, get away from him as fast as you can. And that and that was really good information for me at that time. So I went back to the group. I said, okay, we got to cut him loose. Bill said, Inksnay, he's got to go. And and those things are important, you know, to reach out to those people who, oh, oh, how but you can't, you got, but see, you've built and developed that, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:56

You've you've got to do that. Absolutely. And to be friends, I've worked with celebrities all throughout my life, but that don't even mean anything anymore nowadays. Because people feel like because they work with a celebrity, it means and not your kids, but I'm just saying, like, when we're talking about establishing. You gotta have relationships. Yes, you have to have relationships. But as you grow. But I'm gonna be real, you still gotta have bread. Like, at the end of the day, this is gonna take some bread because being an actor, you're not gonna come out and start making money off rip, Lydia. You know that. Like, most of these guys gotta have a job.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

But you do meet people that are on your level when you start and they start moving up. What people don't realize is the people that you start with, if they're persistent, they're gonna move up.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Move with you, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

And most people don't.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

But most people fall off. That's why you got 2% of actors in the UK.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

But if you are, if you're setting uh okay, if you're setting yourself up where you're connecting with people who are moving, I'm not talking about, you know, just being with because yes, when you start out, there the room is filled with people. But you zero in on those people who have character, you zero in on those people who how do you know that?

SPEAKER_02 26:09

How you gonna determine that when you meet them?

SPEAKER_00 26:10

You know that by their conversation. If and I'm not saying if the keywords are sitting in the wood on somebody, what keyword would it be? I it's six o'clock. I gotta be at my job at seven. I already know that person is dependable because they're thinking they gotta go make their money so they can pay for their classes or do whatever. If if an actor says to me, Oh yeah, you want to hang out and and um uh there's a there's a club that's happening, it goes till two in the morning, and I go, Well, what are you doing tomorrow? What do you have going? Oh none, I'm just gonna hang around. I'm not gonna hang with that person because I already know they don't have discipline. They are just flying at the by the seat of their pants. When you get to meet people, you get to hear their dreams or their lack of dreams, you get to hear, oh, I'm gonna go meet with so-and-so. There's there's a bullshit conversation that new actors give, and then there's a conversation that new actors who want to succeed give, and you have to train your ear for those who are ready to go for success. Not those who want fame and fortune, but those who understand that it is a business.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

I can't you know what, I can't even get behind like people following their dreams, and I'm gonna I'm gonna really ruffle some feathers. I feel like following your dreams, it can be a thing, but like I in reality, I don't believe in doing following your dreams. I believe in doing what you're good at to get to that point. Oftentimes, people leave with the dream. I believe that because you know that this is running a business is expensive, and being a business owner is expensive. We know that. So, in order to technically have a successful business, rather you're an actor, rapper, uh fucking pie store, restaurant owner, you have to have some money set up for yourself in order to obtain that dream. Most people go straight for the dream because they don't want to do the building process. At the end of the day, trying to make money as an actor coming out out back is just damn near impossible. Same thing with starting a it is not.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

I'm gonna challenge, I'm gonna push back on that. It's not impossible.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Tell me why it's damn near impossible. If you Because how many actors are actually making money in the United States as an actor? Let me tell you how many actors talk to me.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

There are there are actors who are dedicated, they do the work, they network, they meet people, they're flexible, they go, okay, oh wow, uh voiceover is a thing. I could do voiceover. Hey, hey, uh, Jumin, do you need somebody to do voiceover for you? They start looking at the different buckets that they can start making money in. You can start teaching acting. If you know, if you've been acting for four years, you can teach little kids. That's a way to start making money.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

But but look, you just proved my point, though. That is still a stream of income. Because to come off starting out as an actor off rep, because if you're teaching a class, you're not acting, you're teaching.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

No, but you are still using your crap. I'm gonna you're still using your crap. Because if you you can make money at the post office, you can make money at a supermarket, but that's not necessarily using the.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Right, and that's what I was gonna lean to. So what I'm saying is at the end of the day, you the and I still stand by this because even because you're you're proving the point that I was gonna make here. Even though you it's it's damn near impossible to start making money as an actor. You just named the different, I was about to say, with you need multiple streams of income. Acting could be one. Whatever the case is, it still has to line up with your, it still has to line up with your your your your career choice because and I told my buddy, for an example, he said he wants to be, he wants to get into producing or whatever the case is. So start where he's good at, right? He doesn't have a studio, he doesn't have equipment, he wants to run his own studio producer, he wants to produce rap. But you know what he is good at? That's why I say start at what you're good at. You know what he's good at? He's good at uh he's good at driving. What how the fuck, how the fuck, what the fuck does driving got to do with rapping? Here. If I mean with the studio, listen, if you're trying to manage artists and you only thing you have is a car and you love driving, why not why not start Ubering and then to get to a point where you can start, you can create your own chauffeur company. Why is this important? Because as you start developing yourself as a producer or as a music producer, you now have your foundation, which is your chauffeur company. You know your rappers need a trip, you know they need to get around. Why hire a chauffeur company when you have a chauffeur company within your within your organization? Make money in that. Once you start making money in that.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying you you made a point. How can you make money at acting? I'm giving you a chance.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

I said it's damn near important impossible to start off making money as an actor. If you can walk me through how a person can make money starting off as an actor with no with no agent, no manager, no, no team at all. They're coming in like I told you when I came from New York City.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

If they have training.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Straight in off the boat.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

What's great? If they have training, uh again, not somebody who wants to be an actor. Uh we're we're talking at the beginning. Not somebody who wants to be an actor, who has a dream to be an actor. I'm talking about someone who's been in school, they've taken their courses, they they are competent as actors, they can be readers. You make money. There, there's some um there are some apps that will pay actors to be readers for other actors auditioning. There is, you can start making money. You have to be creative. You have to go, okay, what can I do? How can I how can I get in here? When I started out, um, friends of mine who were actors, they um hired themselves to casting directors to be readers and they got paid that way, which opened the door for them to meet not just the casting directors, but the directors and other people, and they're putting themselves in the room.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

But most people don't start like that. And that that's the truth. What you're talking about is a strategy plan that already has a goal behind it. What I was talking about is if somebody's coming in, because this is how most people start. They say, fuck it, I'm gonna graduate, and you I'm gonna go to New York City, I'm gonna go to California and wing it. I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

That's not gonna work. And I'm in agreement with you. They're going to crash and burn.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Without an actual structured idea or a way of actually making money, because even you just say they got to get training. How are they gonna get training if they have no money to pay for training? They have to work, they there has to be some form of income coming in to be able to pay your bills, pay for this app because you still got a phone bill, you still have to pay these bills that have to still get taken care of. How you you're not gonna like just like okay, just like a job, and that's people treatment.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

So let me let me just let me just say this. Because we have two different, we have two different um uh different you're saying when they start, um not they want to be actors. Uh uh, I'm talking about when they start, they've they've trained somebody who wants to be an actor. No, you're not gonna make any money at that, just like if you want to be a doctor, you're not gonna make any money in the beginning because you've got to do your work. But if but so I think we're talking two different, we're talking apples and oranges. If you want to be an actor, then you got to, yes, you have to invest, you gotta get a job, you gotta find other ways to do that.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

You have to find other money. Money, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

But when you are you have already trained and you have skill set, you can parlate that into jobs to make money as an actor. So that's that's where the train across is.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

But and here's what most people do. Most people are not gonna train. That's the first thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

So they're not gonna get their dream, they're not gonna get there.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

And then the other thing is, let me tell you why it's so easy for people to have the mindset of, and this is an actor, a rapper, a business owner, they have the mindset of all you got to do is just jump into it and then look for a job. They treat it like they look for a regular job. Because if you look for a regular job, you have guaranteed income when you find it. When you look for becoming an actor or a business owner, you don't have guaranteed income when you find it. You have to create income and or have income already coming in in order to sustain that business so that it gets to a point where you get to. But that's what's happening. People miss the screw. Getting looking for a job as is the same as almost looking as acting, looking for acting as similar to looking for a job when it's not. Because looking for the job, you get the guaranteed money. But that's where the mindset comes from. I've got to train to look for a job.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

But I will say this. I will I will say this. I'm coming in from another side. You can start out acting and do extra work and start making some money that way. You're not gonna get rich, but it will get you on sets, it will get you in the in the room, and and then you still have to, you still will have to take a look at the other.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

But you but you know, it's really it's really hard to still get in even as an extra because you need an agent. Like even when I was looking for work, it's really hard to get extra work without an agent. There's different platforms, unless you got a relationship with some of these platforms, it's really hard to kind of get in there starting out without like having that agent agent to help you get something.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Out here in Los Angeles, you don't need an agent to do extra work. You just need to sign up with the extra agencies. Right. So it's a little different than New York. New York has a different system, but in Los Angeles, you can start out as an extra. If you're again, you you have to be diligent because you got to be on that phone every day to check in and say, hey, so no matter what you do, you have to be diligent and treat it like a job.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

But and here's the reality, though. Let's let's just let's go with that. Let's go with that, let's go with that. Uh the eight, the the acting, the background agencies. Because New York has the background agencies, right? If you have a background agency and you have another job, right? Oftentimes background agencies are calling you randomly. Hey, we got to shoot tomorrow. Can you do this? But you also gotta fucking work tomorrow. Now you have to juggle the two. And then if you constantly are turning down this agency because you gotta work.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

They're not gonna call you back. They're not gonna call you back. They're not gonna call you back.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

But so that's also another near.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

But again, this is where you gotta figure it out just like you did in New York. You had to figure it out. You had to figure it out. It it's not gonna happen just uh like ooh, I'm getting work. But if you are if you are paying attention, you can do gigs that take place at night or on the weekend when you're not getting the call. So you make yourself available in the day for those. Hey, there's a gig too. I was just gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Because that's what that was gonna be my point because at the end of the day, you have to make money in order to in order to follow your dream. Yes, you do. You gotta make money in order to that's why I say to follow your dream for anything. And running a business is following a dream. You have to make some fucking money somewhere. Rather, you work a regular job picking up something, because trying to start it from infancy is damn near impossible. And here's why because even if you're a parent with no house, no nothing, no job, how are you gonna feed that kid? You still have to feed that baby. You still have to be making money before that baby comes into this world. So, and what makes the most sense to your point? We hope. We hope, yeah. We hope. Listen, I'm trying to tell you, I'm trying to tell you when when when these niggas out here tripping thinking this shit is sweet, like this shit is not sweet. I was, I told you, I was sleeping in subways and parks. I got chased in in Brooklyn when I was an actor because I had a backpack on looking like a looking like a the uh a traveler at 11 p.m. at night, about to get my ass whooped. But listen, that's the risk that I was willing to take. I if I can do it all over again as an actor, and I'm like, all right, bet, if I want to go back into acting, what I would do differently to start, I would say, all right, fuck it. One, before I become an actor, what kind of money can I make that's gonna lead me to where I want to go? That's gonna also, that's gonna also allow me some autonomy. Autonomy so that if I get a call from an acting agency, I have the autonomy to be able to do that. Fuck it. It's easy now. You know how you can do make some money? Lyft an Uber, some of these contract, be a contractor somewhere that allows you autonomy and that is task-driven so that you're still able to make money based off of completion of your task or whatever the case is and still be able to do it acting gig. Do the Uber, whatever the case is. You are freely autonomous.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

There's a company called Task Grab It if you are a handyman, or there's all kinds of jobs you can get and set your own hours there. But but you have to take care of your homes first. First. You gotta take care of homes. That's where I fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

And that's what people fuck up. They go out and just go out on the whim, Lydia. They say, I'm going to California.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

No, I know. I know. I and I always tell people who want to get into acting, I always say, if you're gonna come to Los Angeles, you need to have at least a year's money. You have to have a year's worth of money so that you can and a car. You need both. You need and a place that you're gonna feel those three things in order to give you a good head start. And in the sixth month, if nothing is happening, you need to get a part-time job so that you still have income coming in to extend your runway.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Stop prepping you.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

That's n so so here's the thing I would say to that because I when I came to Los Angeles to act, I had a day job. I I had a career day job. I always had a day job. No, there isn't. What I didn't understand when I left my day jobs is that I needed to have structure set up before I had the money to sustain me for six months. I had saved the money. I had a place to live, I had a car, I thought I was doing well, but I didn't I didn't set myself up with structure because I wasn't paying as close attention to my acting friends who were um being able to survive as actors without day jobs. And I thought, oh, well, they their time is flexible. No, it's not. You set your day like it is a job. You so it took me two times of quitting the job, trying it again, until I figured it out. And I had to go back the second time because I went through a dry spell, and people don't talk about this. I went through a year where I was this close to big jobs. Uh there I went through a season where I was up for seven um uh pilots. Seven. Not one, not two, not this had never happened to me. I was up for seven. I didn't book one. I and my unemployment at that time was running out. I was like, oh my God. And I and nobody said to me, I didn't have anybody to say to me, hey, you gotta have money coming in because there's gonna be a dry season.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

It's gonna be, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

It's gonna happen no matter who you are, no matter if you are uh Will Smith.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

I mean, he's going through his dry season now because of that's why that's why all these celebrities, Lydia, have like their own like cologne brand, chips and shit, drinks and shit. Or they go to income tours. They have speaking tours or they're that's right.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

That's right. They've set themselves up for other income.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

And that's why it's not that's why I say if you're gonna follow your dreams, start off with what you're good at first. Let what you're good at first lead to that dream, because what you're good at should be the number one thing that makes you bred so that you can follow that dream that you want to do. As a whatever you want to be, whatever the hell it is. Because I learned that I learned it the hard way. And had I had somebody on a podcast like you and me telling me what the hell to do before I got dived in, before I jumped my ass to New York City with$1,200, which to this day I do not regret it, because I had already had character before I went to New York. I was already driven before I went to New York. And that's another thing. I'm reading a thing, a book called Atomic Habits. You have to get into the habit of being fucking uncomfortable. We talked about this on the show. You gotta get into the habit because as an actor, you're going as any when you're following your dreams. You're gonna be uncomfortable as hell. We talked about people not really, people are always finding ways to be comfortable while following their dreams. Fuck that. If you're finding ways to be comfortable while following your dreams, you're fucking up. Because you have to get uncomfortable. You have to make sacrifices. Rather, you have to work at a job you don't really like, but let that still tie into what you need to do, right? Right. And at the end of the day, I work my ass off. No sleep. I created a habit to work. We talked about you talked about making them phone calls consistently. That's a habit. You want to be successful in this business, you have to develop habits and consistently be on top of that habit nonstop. It's hard to find people like me in this world. I'm a machine. I don't stop. But I told you when I was 16 years old.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

I was just gonna come wait for you to start off that way.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

I was, I was, I wasn't even I was 15 years old working for a guy for eight to ten hours a day for$20 a day, six days a week, that built in the hot sun, lifting motors and transmission. That developed character in me at a young age that took that followed me as an adult. So whenever I come to like an acting world and you like, you gotta sleep outside in the cold in New York City, bet. I would rather do that than be lifting motors eight, 10 hours a day in the hot sun. You telling me I gotta jump on a computer and type and move a mouse around to be a digital content creator. I don't gotta sit my ass in the hot sun. When you compare what I've been through to what I do now, it's cakewalk. It's nothing. So you have to, as a person, before you even follow your dream, develop a character that and it develop a character before you get to that point. Why? Because the character is what's going to take you through those rough times. So when they come, you ready to you're ready to tackle it, you're ready to fight it.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

And you gotta do that thing that um maybe other people don't want. You made$20 a day. I made$10 a week working at a radio station when I was a kid, from 13 to 18. And then I got then I got promo, I got bumped up. I went from$10 to$50 a day. A week. A week, a week. When and and I'll tell you, going talking about the sacrifices and uh because I don't see it as a struggle. You're making sacrifices. You're just saying, I'm gonna have tuna today so I can have steak tomorrow. And that is that's what you do. Like when I came to Los Angeles and I was working, I had a job, it wasn't giving me a lot of money. So there were days where I said, okay, you can eat or you can put gas in your car. Which is it? I put gas in my car and then I call up friends and say, Hey, hey, what you cooking? What you cooking today? And that's how I juggled that because there were days when I could only do one thing. I could put gas in my car or I can get something to eat. And for me, putting gas in my car won out because I needed to be able to drive to understand.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

To create those opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

You had to drive to the opportunities. You had to make those sacrifices. But you know, some people would have eaten because they're used to being comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

If you want something, you have to be willing to do whatever legal thing you can to make it. You hear what I said legal. You want to be that part. Whatever legal thing you can do to make it happen. Because I I have friends who did things that were not legal in order to keep them uh above above board, and I was like, oh, I I no, I can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

Yeah, I was like, I will go do what I need to do. I almost did it.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Or they moved in with or they moved in with, you know, someone they were dating so that they could put the bill. I was like, yeah, that's not gonna work for me either, because I didn't grow up that way. But um you do need, um, you do need to have grit and you need to be able to handle the nose, and you you need to not let the nose um send you back packing. You need to say, okay, well, you you don't want it, but somebody else wants it. Um you gotta be so focused on where you're going, what you want, so that when people say, no, no, no, okay, that's all right. Next, let's go next. And you gotta believe in yourself. If you are an actor, an artist, you gotta believe that what you have is so valuable that you keep going even when it's hard, even when it's like it feels like nothing's happening. You and and speak good things to yourself about yourself. Keep keep pumping yourself up, keep taking classes, keep doing, and if you can't afford classes and you've already started to make friends with other actors, say, hey, let's get together once a week and read a script. Let's, let's, let's, you know, let's have a play that we read. You don't need money for that. You can go to the library and get the play, you can get online and pull it out.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

I'm about to spill the beans. I'm about to spill the beans on something that nobody that people don't be talking about on the internet. You know what we're doing right now? We're doing exactly what everybody on the motherfucking internet be doing. We telling everybody, go out there, follow your dreams. You gotta have grit, you gotta do this, you gotta be disciplined. Fuck that. I'm gonna be honest with you. Most people don't talk about this here. Everybody like, yeah, I gotta have that. How the fuck do you get grit and how do you get discipline? I'm gonna tell you right fuck now. The way to get grit and to get discipline is to work for little to nothing. Hard. Work for little to nothing hard for a few years. We just talked about working, you talked about working for a week for$10 for five years. I talked about working 20 hours,$20 a day, eight to ten hours in the sun. This is basically for nothing. When you create in order to create discipline and grit, you have that this is what's going to develop your character. Work for free and or for little pay, extremely hard, giving 100% of it.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

But it has to be something you love. It has to be something. I loved what I was doing for$10. I would have given that$10.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

I did. And I see and see, you loved it. I ain't loved what I did. But see, as a as a woman, it makes sense. As a man, we sometimes got to do what we gotta do, even when we don't want to do it. Because that's how we put, that's how we put food on the table. I knew I didn't like doing this shit, but I needed to do it. Because, like I said earlier, when you think about our grandparents and our mothers and fathers, they used to say, I got five more years and I'm gonna retire. They stuck it out. They didn't want to be at that damn job no more. I need 10 more years and I'm retired. I just need four more years and I'm retired. They knew how to be uncomfortable to get to where they needed to be at. They saw the payoff. They saw the payoff. And that's what you see. When you're working for these companies and you're saying, look, I'm trying, look, fuck this. I'm gonna do this job. I don't like it. I hate it, but I'm not doing it for this job. I'm doing it for me to develop character because I know that when it's all said and done, and when it's time for me to get up out of this job, when I go chase them dreams and looking for what I'm trying to do, there is nothing that's going to stop me because I have already been through the storm by doing some shit that I didn't even want to do for little to nothing. So now, at least this job, I at least kind of want to do it. So I'm gonna still put that same amount of effort that I did when I did not want to do a job.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

And I would say to that, I would add to that to make sure you're walking in gratitude in that job. Because if you come in, yes, you're doing it, yes, you show up, but you're resentful, it's not going to serve you. You will serve you. Serve with all your heart, do it the best you can, learn as much as you can. You know, going go to the karate kid. You know, the the the teacher had him wax up. And he was like, what are you? He didn't like that shit. That's right. He didn't like it. But what he didn't realize was everything he was having him do benefited him when he got to the karate. He was giving him the the uh the roadmap. The yeah, it's like you got to do this, you know. And he didn't want to do it. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

He did not want, but see, it's because he didn't want to do it, is what developed his character as a fighter. Because it's not about the karate, it's about developing the character to get to the karate.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

It's the art and understanding that the more you do, the more it's in you. It just becomes second nature to you.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Habit.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Habit. Yes, atomic habits.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

We talked about habits. Yeah. Creating a habit because when you create a habit, it becomes automatic. When you wake up in the morning, you like, bet, I'm gonna run to the bathroom and pee. I'm gonna brush my teeth. Those are habits. When you go to bed, you like I'm gonna read a book or I'm gonna watch the or I'm gonna watch something on TV or I'm gonna look at social media. You've already developed a habit. When you get to the when you when it's time for dinner, you go to the dinner table or you eat at your desk. You've created a habit.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Right. And on purpose, decide to do good habits and get rid of the bad habits. Because we do have habits whether we know it or not. So it's the good habits.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

It's automatic. It's an automatic habit. So understanding that at the end of the day, in order, and that's what they don't teach us on the internet. Everybody will sit here and do what we did and say, go out there and get it. You gotta be strong, you gotta be disciplined. Fuck what them people saying. How are you gonna give me something? Tell me how to do something, but don't teach me how to be disciplined. Right. If you want to learn to be disciplined, do the things that make you uncomfortable for little to nothing. Do it for a few years. Not for you, not for them, for you. Think like what you just said, Lydia, karate kid. You he didn't want to wash them damn cars, but and he damn he wanted to go hang out with his friends. But he did it. And later on, he developed a habit. When you're doing something you don't want to do for little to nothing, you're creating a habit. You're creating a payoff creating discipline.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

And there was a payoff.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

And that's why I'm where I'm at today. And that's why you are where you're at today, because you develop those habits, and that's how you become the true untraditional entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

Show up happy, show up helpful, show up wholeheartedly, and show up to make things better. You know, I'm I believe that you you get opportunities, they may they may be hard, but if you can turn them into something good, it even if it was difficult, I I'm I'm here for the difficult stuff, but I bring joy. I when I'm not feeling joyful, I go, okay, there's a problem. I need to take a step back because I need to be joyful even in the difficult stuff. I know how to clean up, I know how to cook, I know I can do whatever. I used to clean houses. I mean, whatever I needed to do in order to make the money, I know how to do it. That's legal. That's legal. Um, talk to you. But I I I have no problems with rolling up my sleeve and going, let's do it. I've done indie filmmaking for the last 20 years. And there have been times when we could not afford certain crew members. So I had to cook. I I I was part of a film called Hollywood Shuffle. I did the catering, the cooking, the cleaning, and babysitting for some of the cast members. Whatever was needed, I was okay, let's do this, let's do this. I mean, you know, having a production company is great, but there are things that are involved that sometimes, especially when you have a small indie company and you're trying to make a movie on$2, you have to let go of certain things. And then you go, okay, what can I do? I mean, we did I did a documentary called, um, well, I've done a few, but I did one called Making the Five Heartbeats. And we were doing it on a really shoestring budget. I had to do the catering because we couldn't afford catering for for the the crew and the actors who were coming to shoot. We couldn't, I mean, uh do we not do it because we can't afford the catering? Oh, hell no, we're doing it, we're doing it. And then I wanted the film to be considered for an award. So I had to learn how to, I had to learn how to do a campaign. I was calling up the academy every day. Okay, so how do you do this? How do you do this? I was like, we may not have studio money, but we're gonna fight. We're gonna keep we're gonna find a way to do it. And that's why that's important. And to end that, we got nominated for Image Award. Not because we had the money, but I had the grit to go, okay, what do we need to do? Okay, we're gonna do that. We don't have studio money, but you know what? You are not stopping us. You are not stopping this train. We are getting in there. We were the we were one of the five that year to be nominated, and we were up against hard stuff. We uh in the nomination was uh Whitney Houston's documentary, it was Aretha Franklin's documentary, it was Quincy Jones and RBG's documentary, and and and we couldn't compete with Quincy Jones in the sense that he was inviting people to his house.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

You couldn't compete with that. I thought Quincy Jones is out, but but you find your way.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

Way, yep.

SPEAKER_00 58:31

You can't, you know, if we start trying to compete with people the regular way, we lose out. But how do I compete with you in a way that makes me win without me trying to do what you do?

SPEAKER_02 58:44

Character. And you and I'm gonna end with this the character. We just you hit such a pivotal point. The reason why you do the dirt, the mud, the things you don't want to do in the beginning, because when you succeed, if times ever fall back down, you still know how to do that. I still know how to lift them motors and carry them transmissions in the hot sun if it came down to it.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

How do you it's that it's that saying that says, teach a man, uh, give a man a fish, he'll keep coming back. But if you teach him how to fish, he'll make, he'll get his own fish, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:23

That's it. Amen. Hey, listen, listen, Lydia, this was great. Great stuff, great shit. You are the bomb. I knew I had to bring you on the show. I knew you got to come with the realness, realness. This is what it is about to be the UTE, the untraditional entrepreneur podcast. Thank you guys. Thank you guys for tuning in and all of our followers. Please don't forget to subscribe, hit that notification so you can get information on when our podcast is coming out. I'm your host, Jameen Delmus, Miss Lydia Nicole. Thank you so much for joining the show. And until then, guys, we'll see you guys on the next show. Welcome to the other side of motivation. We'll talk soon.