Entrepreneurship, Spades & Monopoly: Who’s Really Winning? With Juming Delmas & David Shands

Is entrepreneurship really for everybody? Is your brand worth more than your talent? And can David Shands actually beat Juming Delmas in Monopoly?

In this episode of the Un-Traditional Entrepreneur Podcast, host Juming Delmas sits down with David Shands — podcaster, entrepreneur, and creator of the Social Proof Podcast and Hot Seat series — for one of the most entertaining and thought-provoking debates the show has ever had.

What starts as a friendly argument about Monopoly and spades turns into a deep conversation about entrepreneurship, personal branding, building something bigger than yourself, and why your brand will always make you more money than your talent ever will.

Topics covered:
- Is entrepreneurship for everybody — or just people built for it?
- Why your brand is worth more than your talent (the LeBron James breakdown)
- The difference between building a personal brand vs. building a business brand
- Why David Shands wants to build something bigger than his own name
- How to identify the right problem to solve before starting a business
- What the Hot Seat interview method reveals about entrepreneurs
- Why personal brands can't scale infinitely — and what can
- The mindset shift every new entrepreneur needs before launching
- Jim Rohn, E.T. the Hip Hop Preacher, and the mentors who shaped David Shands

Two podcast heavyweights. Zero filter. One real conversation about what it actually takes to win in entrepreneurship — and in Monopoly.

The Un-Traditional Entrepreneur Podcast with Juming Delmas. Real talk. No filter.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

You said that hey nobody beats you a monopoly. These are the facts. When people play me, baby. I I gotta have a person who just got a plant space before it put in B. Let's just move on.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

I have I get a sense about people.

SPEAKER_04 0:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

And my sense is specifically correct. It doesn't have anything to do with necessarily the hot seat itself, but I just get a good, I got a good judge of character, and I can tell what people are not saying.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

What is what is what is that definition when you say succeed? What does that mean for you like to succeed as an entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Everyone won't um accomplish their goal of being an entrepreneur, but everyone can do it. It's just with the right incentive. What you do is valuable, but how people see you, I believe, is more valuable. So LeBron James, best basketball player in the world, but it's not his talent that makes them all the money.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Welcome to the other side of motivation. All right. Well, hey, David, listen, man. Welcome to the show. Thank you for joining me today, man. Thank you for joining me. Uh before I even get started, I do have, I do want to address the elephant in the room right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Is there an elephant?

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah, oh, there's an elephant. Oh, there's an elephant. There's definitely a big elephant in the room. So last year, you we we we we went to your um, I was in Atlanta, you had an event going on, and we was at your your little workshop station, and you said something to everybody, and I just I just I had to take a step back and say, don't take this personal, because David, you know, he he just don't know what he be talking about sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

You said that hold on, just just so I know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

In your works.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

One of my sessions?

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Mm-hmm. One of your sessions. You said something crazy, and I just couldn't believe you that can't. I just had to come back and say, you know what, ain't gonna let this bother me. I'm gonna let it go. Yeah. You said that can't nobody beat you in Monopoly.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

These are the facts, bro. Well, not nobody can beat me in Monopoly because you know, sometimes you get the property, but over a long period of time, if we're like counting the wins, it's over with. I'm too good at the game.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

So and see, I tried to be cool about that when you said that, because I just I said, let me, I'm here to learn other things. But when you started bringing up things like Monopoly and like spades and like a lot of other things, I just say, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

You play Monopoly? What? Okay, what? Okay, real quick, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna ask you a couple of questions, okay? And this will allow me, this will tell me if you actually play the game or not.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

So Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

If you're gonna put hotels on the light blue properties, how much is hotels?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

They're about for the light blue property, I call that the projects, they like a hundred dollars. 50, they$100. The brown ones are$50.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

No, no, no. How much is hotels on the light blue property?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

They're$100. After you have four houses.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

So how much would it cost to put hotels on all the light blues?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

So oh, total, it'll be$500.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

No, it's$500. One, that's the wrong answer. Two, let's just keep moving on. You're not somebody else. No, what hold on?

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Hold on. No, no, no, no, no, no. You're not it.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

You're just not it, bro. Like, wait, hold on.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

The light blue house, the light blue houses, right? That's the one on the far left all the way to the end before you get to the pink ones.

unknown 3:58

Right?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

On the corner. That's right by the get that's that's right by the get out of the jail free session. Or visit or visit.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Let's just move on. This isn't a this isn't a conversation for you, okay? Wait, no, we might as well just keep going.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

You might as well, all right. Just help me then. Help me understand. Are we talking about the same property? We ain't talking, we're talking about the light blue properties all the way the 10. Give me a favor, the 10 box. Give me a favor.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

What are the names of the light blue properties?

SPEAKER_01 4:23

See, hold on. Do you know the names? It's right. No, do you know the names?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Yes, absolutely. Oriental, uh, Connecticut, Vermont.

unknown 4:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

I play every day. So let's not, let's, this, this is not, this, this is not the conversation you want to have. You got the for the Browns, the ones right there. The Browns, the project. You want hotels? It's$500. The light blues is$750. The pinks and the oranges is$1,500. It's$100 each.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah, after you pay for the property.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

And on New York with a hotel, it's$1,000. You land on Boardwalk with a hotel, it's$2,000. I I play the game every day. So like you say you play the game every day.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Who you well, who you who do you play with, though? I got an app. Do you play with people? Do you play with people? Oh, you play the app?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Yeah, I got a group, bro. I got a group chat. We play every day, bro. Like, and we find four people because that on the app only lets you play with four people. We have a group chat, bro. So when I say that, it's not like I just casually I love this game, bro.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

It's my favorite thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Why is that game so important to you? What kind of lessons do you typically get from the game Monopoly?

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Um, man, I just I don't know. I just I I love I really enjoy I really like real estate. Um, but a lot of the game isn't about what you land on. It's about you playing the rest of the people. Cause you gotta get if two other people are about to do a deal, I have to say whatever I have to say to skew one of them from doing the deal. Or like I gotta like muddy the water, or I gotta figure out how I'm gonna get what I want out of these other three people. And it's a big strategy. I love the game.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

You would it's well, you like the strategy of the game. Is there any other games? Is there any other game similar to Monopoly that requires that level of strategy?

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Uh I really like Connect 4. I mean It's a lot to consider.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

There is, but I mean I think that was a weak point. I don't think Connect 4 is nowhere near Monopoly.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Well, so I'm probably better than you in both games.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

What about spades?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

I rock with spades. I play with spades.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

So I could tell just by that response, this is that's not your that's not your strong suit.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

I no, I play spades, bro. I do. I'm just saying in terms of in terms of strategy, it's not as um strategic.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Strategic as Monopoly for sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Yeah, bro. If you got six books, you got six books.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

It's not a whole lot you can do other than like Well see, now I know you now I know you don't know how to play spades, because if you got six books, don't mean you got six books. You might have seven. It's all about how you play the hand.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Well, yeah, of course. But what I'm saying is you got either if you got six, you got somewhere between five and seven, right? There's not much you can change about that.

unknown 7:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

But if you bit in, it can't but if you bitten, that means the world. That means the world if you don't meet that sixth hand.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

You're absolutely right, which means you're just not that. I think I there's a certain level of player where you're all just the same level because you know how to count your books, you know how to base what you're bidding off of everybody else, then you gotta gauge your partner. So I I do play spades, I mean.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

But it's just not your forte.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

It's no, it is my forte. It's just I'm not as in love with the game.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Okay. Would you so you would agree that I will at least beat you in spades then? No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Not if I had the right partner.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Well, you just you just sat there and told me six books. If you got six books, you got six books, and that ain't even true.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

If you got six, I know how many books I have in my hand.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

So what I'm saying is I can't I can't change that much. I can't change that much. So if you're playing, let's say, for instance, you are playing sandbags and you're getting to a certain point of the sandbags, then you got a little more strategy, but a lot of people don't play play sandbags.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

I play sandbags.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Oh, well, you know, it's a cool game. Yeah, so I'm just saying, like it's I I love this game. I like Monopoly. It doesn't mean I'm any less defeated about the game, though.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

So well, well. So so you do play sandbags in space then. Joker Joker Deuce Deuce.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

I try. Well, I play any type. Joker Joker Deuce.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

So it don't matter for you. Face high, you mean? Yeah. Uh-huh. So I'm gonna ask you a question, and then I'll know if you're a space player. All right. What do you call a 10 hand on the first hand?

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Wheels. And the game's over.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Y'all call it what that's not the proper name. It's not Wheels.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

What you mean?

SPEAKER_01 9:06

A 10 on the first hand? It's not Wills. The game's over.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

I know it's over, but what do you call it?

SPEAKER_01 9:11

What's the terminology?

SPEAKER_02 9:13

What part of the country you grew up in?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

I grew up in the South.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

What I'm saying is, and I'm from New Jersey, so there's what you're saying is terminology based on Terminology. What I gave you the example was simply it's the same numbers on every monopoly.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

But if you yeah, you get 10 the first hand, you win the game. It's a Boston. They call it a Boston. Oh yeah, Boston.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

And that to be fair, that's actually the a Boston.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

I mean, but that's not just on the first hand. A 10 is a Boston anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah, isn't it a Boston? It's a Boston something, right? On the first hand, it's called a specifically a Boston. And then well, maybe I'm off. Listen, man, I haven't I haven't lost a spades game in 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

That's not the truth.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

That is.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

That is, I don't play every day.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

I'm not here to argue with you, brother.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

I don't play every day like you would play Monopoly to win to lose, but I don't I don't lose, bro.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Like that's just that's just gonna have to be a game. That's gonna have to be a game that we just gonna have to test the waters on. I don't lose. But as long I'll say this here, I won't lose as long as we're bidding and playing sandbag. I feel like the way you are in Monopoly, because I can still I ain't still convinced that you're good in spades just yet.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Here's how I know that what you're saying isn't even the truth. Wait, can I finish? Because this isn't a one-man game. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Space is not a one-man game, it's a two it's a partner game.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Which really tells me you're not the best at the game because you gotta play in all scenarios and be able to play with other different people.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

So and see the thing is I I don't I don't play with one player the entire 10 years. I play with I when people play me, David. I I gotta have a person who just started playing spades in order for the game to be even.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Let's just move on, bro.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Because you're talking crazy. You're talking crazy, bro.

unknown 11:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

We'll just keep this conversation pushing, man.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Listen, I think like you're like um somebody y'all really look up to like a lot in like podcasting, especially in the podcast and business industry. And I didn't even really know about you till about two years ago from like an ad that I saw. And to be fair, I didn't even know nothing really about podcasting. Um, I didn't even know really what it was till I like saw like some of your stuff. I think one of my favorite podcasts is uh the one you do, what is called, uh like hot seat. Be honest, man. Because sometimes when I be when I be listening to the hot seat, um, I be like, it's like you ask questions, and then it's like the it's like a lineup. It's like it's like a it's like a setup for like an alley hoop. Like sometimes you'll ask something, and I feel like you will ask it. You I feel like you'll ask that shit and you will know exactly the answer before they sit there and respond. And then you like kind of probe it until they kind of get exactly what you're trying to ask them. This is true. Is that the game of hot seat?

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Absolutely. But I mean it's just uh, but it's not, um, and I I've I haven't released a whole lot of episodes with that recently, only because like people think I'm mean, bruh. And I'm not a I don't think I'm a mean person, bro. But people be afraid of me. I'm like, God, leave. Yeah, I just did this other episode. So but to answer your question, yes. Um, I think it's something that um I don't want to say like gifted in an arrogant way, but it is I um I have I get a sense about people.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

And my sense is typically correct. But it doesn't have anything to do with necessarily the hot seat itself, but I just get a good I got a good judge of character and I can tell what people are not saying. Like the more you talk, the more I can tell what you're not saying.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

So I actually just did this episode of Hot Seat, and I gotta figure out how I'm gonna do this because essentially the young lady fixes credit. But the problem is credit and lives in Georgia. The problem is it's illegal to fix credit in Georgia.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Is it?

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Yeah, credit repair is illegal in Georgia. Now I know that.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

I didn't know that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

You live in Georgia and you fix credit, a red flag goes up. So eventually, throughout the conversation, I'm realizing, whoa, what you're doing is illegal. And she says, Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

And I'm like, but yeah, you gotta stop doing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

But I can't, I can't put her. So here's the thing. I told her, I said, man, I might have to blur out your face on this. She's like, No, it's cool. Don't know, but if something happens, you go to jail, you get caught up, then people look at me crazy. Yeah, David is a snitch. And I'm not trying to be a snitch. I just I'm trying to get you on the right path. Okay, because you shouldn't be fixing credit right now.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Is there a reason why they don't let people fix credit in Georgia? Is there a reason behind that? You know anything? You don't know? I just know it's illegal. I know I think that like Florida. Huh? It's it's what?

SPEAKER_02 14:50

It's legal in Florida. It's legal in certain states.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Just not all states.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Well how but what if her license, maybe she practices it in different states outside of individuals in the state of Georgia?

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Yeah. Well, well, maybe that's the conversation. Well, it's not about where the person that does the service lives, it's about where the person that she services lives.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Even if the business was opened up in another state, would that matter?

SPEAKER_02 15:20

If the business is open up in Florida and you fix someone's credit in Georgia, it's illegal.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

That's still illegal. Right. But what I'm saying is, even if she opened up a license in Florida, she lives in Georgia, but she services Florida and all other areas that require a credit fix. Maybe she just is that like an op is that an option?

SPEAKER_02 15:42

I'm not an attorney. One thing I do know is it's illegal to fix people's credit in Georgia. Or it's illegal, it's illegal for them to pay you to, or for them to pay you to fix their credit. I think it's something like where you could fix it and then they could pay on the back end or something like that. I don't know. I don't get into logistics. My point is through the conversation, I got a chance to see what she's not telling me. And eventually she tells me what I knew already. But it's it's just, I don't know, something I just know.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

You like intuition. Yeah, for sure. Like you have like a level of intuition. Have you like, would you say you always had that level of intuition, like even as a kid? Yeah. Yeah. How did you know, like, immediately, like, you was good at picking up on people?

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Like, how I don't know. I don't know if I ever like thought to myself, I'm good at picking up on people. It's just, I just know. I don't know. One of my the first girlfriend I ever fell in love with, my mom was like, she ain't. I'm like, mom, you don't even know her, bruh.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

She was right. She knew. She was right. So you got that. So you mean so you think your intuition came from your mom, then, for the most part?

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

I feel like I feel like I got I feel like I got I feel like I got a good intuition on people. Yeah. I feel like I have a good intuition. If you if somebody told you there are a hundred million entrepreneurs um in the United States, how many would you say would actually be a true bona fide entrepreneur, and how many would you say would probably fail?

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Well, um, all of them are true bona fide entrepreneurs if they're entrepreneurs. And most of them most of them why? Because it's just the that's the stats. Business is hard. And most, if we're saying like a majority, 100 million people are going to fail. Most people aren't willing to do the work. Most people won't um do what it takes in sacrifice. It's like, yo, how many people are serious at the top of the year about losing weight? Most people. How many people are actually going to lose the weight? A few.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Why do you think most people get into entrepreneurship? Why do you think that people get into entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Uh, I don't know if there's a most, but I mean, for various reasons. Some people um hate their job and they feel like they can do it all on their own, or some people are just in an environment of entrepreneurs, and entrepreneurship is just the conversation and you get expi you get excited about it. Some people have an idea and they're willing to go after it.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

But how would somebody know that entrepreneurship is for them just based on your opinion? Because you've you've you've done a lot of hot seats with a, like you said, over a thousand people. How would someone know that entrepreneurship is the right path for them?

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Um, I think entrepreneurship is the right path for anybody. I think everyone should go after being an entrepreneur, not that you maybe say it again.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Go ahead. No, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was saying, yeah, I I could see that, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Yeah. I I think the experience of having an idea in your head and at least attempting to see if you can bring it to uh fruition, I think it's a good exercise for people. At least try it, just go after it. Now, most people will fail, but I think it's good, bro.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

So you wouldn't say that it's you wouldn't say that entrepreneurship you're saying that it's good to to try out entrepreneurship. To try it out, but like not necessarily like entrepreneurship isn't for everybody. Like you would disagree with that statement that entrepreneurship is there. Uh you would say entrepreneurship is something that people should try, but I would say that entrepreneurship isn't for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Just like just well, I think like act just like acting isn't for everybody, just like playing football isn't for everybody. Um, but you got a lot of you got a lot of black boys who grow up who wants to be football players or in an NFL. Football isn't for everybody. You can play the sport, but it's not for everybody. Like, and and that's why there's like a very small So what do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 19:56

How do you how do you decide if it's for that person or not?

SPEAKER_01 20:00

You I don't decide that. We just talked about like, for example, statistics. Statistics have already shown that it's not for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Because you said how do we know that this thing was not for that person?

SPEAKER_01 20:13

We don't know that. What we do know that is not for everybody, we don't know for a specific individual is what I'm saying. I don't think that we know that for a specific individual. I think that we know that statistically, entrepreneurship is not for everybody, it's not a specific person.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

I understand what you're saying, but when you say it's not for everybody, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

So, meaning that everybody who is in entrepreneurship, that does not mean that that is their chosen field. Anyone who practice entrepreneurship doesn't mean that that's their chosen field. Anyone who plays football doesn't mean that that's their chosen field.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Real quick, when you say chosen field, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

So what I mean by that is so entrepreneurs, so somebody might not be good at entrepreneur because when I think about an entrepreneur, I think about an entrepreneur as a strategist. I think somebody who can constantly solve problems. But then I think that there are individuals who I think are entrepreneurs who are maybe not the problem solvers, but they need the strategies to figure out or they need strategies brought to them and they're able to organize those. I think we have a lot more entrepreneurs than we have entrepreneurs. Just like a football coach who is a football coach who don't know shit about, I mean he doesn't know how to play the, he doesn't play the game, but he can coach the game. He's not the he's not gonna jump on the field and be the football player. That's not that's that's not what he that's not his lane, but he can coach the people how to play the game.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

So what I'm saying is there might be a kid that played football and didn't make it to the NFL, or we might look at them and say, well, football wasn't for him.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

No, not that. We went no, that's not what we would say.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

So that's what I'm saying. I'm when you say it's not for everybody, I I'm just I don't have a clear definition of what it means to look at someone and say, Well, that wasn't for that. Person.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

You can't, and I like I said earlier, you can't say that it's not for a specific person. What I'm basing it on is the statistical number. And I'm maybe I'm not understanding your question because you when you say what do you mean it's not for everybody? When I say it's not for everyone, meaning everyone who gets into business ownership will not foresee business ownership to the end. Some people will most people, most people will stop and go back to a regular job. And they realize then for themselves, this was not for me. After seeing all of the intricacies and things that are thrown into what it takes to run a business and things like that. That's what I mean by not for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Well, okay. So essentially, everyone in entrepreneurship will not succeed.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

In what?

SPEAKER_02 22:55

In entrepreneurship.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Well, and statistics, but and statistics show that.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Well, statistics don't show that.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Okay, so if we say so then, but then that thought but that's kind of like a that's that's a subjective kind of question. You say succeed, because success is very subjective. Like you can succeed in entrepreneurship and stop. You can say I wanted to be an entrepreneur for a year and you became that and I wanted to make$10,000 that year and you succeeded as an entrepreneur. So like that that's kind of subjective to say so they won't succeed. I think that succeed, success is is is is subjective. Yeah. So then that's so I guess the real question is when you say succeed, what is what is what is that definition? When you say succeed, what does that mean for you like to succeed as an entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_02 23:46

I think succeeding is accomplishing something. What I here's here's here's I'll just kind of round this thing out. What you said is entrepreneurship isn't for everybody. And I say entrepreneurship is for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

And I think if someone went out to um let's just say football is not for everybody. There is a kid that is scrawny, skinny, non-athletic. You might say, well, football isn't for that person. Well, maybe they become a coach and they become an amazing coach. That means football was for that person. Or a kid that didn't make the team, or they're just not athletically talented.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

You don't know what's and see, but that but that you it's football. You're saying football. Football is the business itself. You can be in football and not be a football player.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Okay. So an entrepreneur is someone who can start something. They have an idea in their head and they start it. Right?

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Everything can start something. Everybody.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

That's correct. That is correct.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

So I don't so we say, well, like entrepreneurship isn't for everybody. I believe it is. I believe that that's like saying education isn't for everybody. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Okay. No, that's like saying school isn't for everybody. No, it's not.

unknown 25:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Entrepreneurship is for everybody. School for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

So school, no, it's not. School is not for everybody. I don't care. Why not? Because not everybody succeeds in school.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Some people traditionally it's not about succeeding based on what someone else says. I did not do well in school. It doesn't mean school wasn't for me. School taught me a lot about myself. School taught me that I am not the best one in uh projects. School taught me that I will every single time, even if I tell myself I'm not gonna do it this time, I'm gonna wait until the end. Right. To do the project. It just is what it is. So I didn't succeed in school, but I learned so much from school. So yes, school gave something to me that helped me shape who I am. So that's why I don't like when people lean on a well, entrepreneurship is in it for everybody. You just tell people what to do it. And I'm cool with that.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Well, and I and I agree with that. I think that people should tell you they wouldn't want to do it. But if I'm telling you that school isn't for everybody, that doesn't mean that school is a bad place to go. That means that you are taking an untraditional route to what you qualify as success, because traditionally, you're supposed to go to school, public school, go to college, get out of college, get a job. Public school and college may not be for everybody to get to that path to succeeding to getting to that kind of job. Some people can open that job, or some people can work for a company because based on experience, not because of education. When I say school, I didn't even think about it.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

I think it's it's just the language, it's just the language the for everybody. So does everyone have to go to school to become successful?

SPEAKER_01 26:47

No, they do not.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

I think it's just the language I have a hard time with when people say, Oh, it's not for me.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

So when you when you Google, here, look, look, look, let me show you this here. When you Google, when you Google, for example, is school, or I ain't even saying school, when I when when you when I Google this, what does it say right here? It says entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is generally not for everyone because it requires a high tolerance for risk, extreme stress, specific skills that not all individuals possess or desire to develop. While anyone can technically start a business, to sustain effort, financial uncertainty, and need for intense passion mean in suit those of specific drive and resilience. What I'm saying is I agree that anybody could start a business. But when I say business is not for everyone, it's not for everybody because it does take a level of grit and a level of discipline to be that. Like I feel like entrepreneurs put in almost a hundred hours a week that some people do not have that kind of time.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Everyone won't um accomplish their goal of being an entrepreneur, right? But everyone can do it. Yeah, it's just with the right incentive. But an operating human being who's capable of choosing and become successful if they put the right system and team around them. They can be an entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

I agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

But why don't people use the excuse, oh, that's not for me. You just don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

With the right incentive, take that one person that loves their job as a nurse and they're saving lives every single day. And they're like, yo, I don't need to be an entrepreneur, I just want to be a nurse. Yeah. Well, if someone with$20 million comes to that person and says, Yo, we can start our own thing. You already know the nursing thing. We can start our own hospital. I'll fund everything. I understand strategy, but because you're on the ground and you understand I need you to run it, you think they're not going to take that opportunity where they can partner with somebody, their needs are covered, and now their brain just allows them to work. That person who just said, Oh, entrepreneurship isn't for me. Oh, now it's for you because we've created the right scenario. So I don't let people this isn't for me. Everybody can be an entrepreneur. You either want to do it or you don't.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

That's true. And most people, well, maybe we can agree to this. Most people don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Oh, I'm with you on that. Most people don't want to do it, and most people don't want to do what it takes to become successful. We're not going to say it's not for them. Even if you go after something and it doesn't work out, you've learned something that you can take with you for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

True.

unknown 29:30

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Entrepreneurship is for everybody to have an idea and do something with it. It's for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

So you made a post, uh, and it was a long time ago. It's when you had um it's when you had black hair. And uh I'll take the shot.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

I'm not gonna think too many, I'm not gonna do too many before I start roasting back, but all right.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

So this is the post here. I think this speaks a lot, and maybe you can elaborate on this. It says your brand will make you weigh more money than talent will. Focus on building the brand, David Shans. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Um, what you do is valuable, but how people see you, I believe, is more valuable. So LeBron James, best basketball player in the world. But it's not his talent that makes him all the money. It's the brand that he's built through his talent, of course. But nowadays, bro, we see it more than ever.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Uh 37.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Yeah, so you're old enough to know that there was a time, it's not like that anymore, but there was a time where to be a famous singer, you used to have to be able to sing.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

True. Oh, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Remember that?

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Remember to be a big rapper, you had to actually be able to write your own raps and rap.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

It's not like that anymore. If you can wrap a brand around an idea, it will win regardless of the talent.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Most people think that talent is all so most people think that talent is all it takes. And that and that's why I saw that post because oftentimes when I sit down with when untraditional entrepreneurs, what I mean by that is like actors, rappers, people who are like really into entertainment, basketball players, football players their talent is like their bread and butter. So outside of just their talent, what else do they need to be doing?

SPEAKER_02 31:36

I mean, building a brand. Start shaping perception in the minds of people. That's all a brand is. So you think perception.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Do you think that having a having do you think that if like, for example, if they're a let's just say a rapper, since we talk about rappers, do you think like is there a difference between like their their rap image and their personal image? And should they also build their personal brand at the same time building their current brand, or should it just be a one a one-off focus?

SPEAKER_02 32:11

I I think it one starts with the what the goal is, and many people don't really think through the goal of like who they want to be at the end of the day. That's why uh we do whatever we are going to do right now with our brand because we're only thinking about today. So what I'm for instance, with Podcast Summit, I have a really, really big goal, really big idea. And some of the things that I'm saying and some of the posts that I'm posting is about painting the picture of what is to come. So I want people to see that I am building something amazing. It's not just come buy a ticket, come buy a ticket, come buy a ticket. I'm I'm I'm shaping, allowing people to be a part of something. So I just made a post about um sponsorships. I'm like, yo, I'm having the hardest time getting sponsorships. Should the title sponsor be$95,000? Is that too high, too low? What's the point? I don't know. I'm working on it. But this is this is me creating a brand around Podcast Summit. Yo, there is somebody that's independent that's pulling it off, and we're watching that person in real time.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

And you and you're also you're also able to bring named people. Like I'm talking about some big name people on these shows, some big name podcasters on your on your show. How did you develop your brand name? Because you're uh I feel like your brand name is David Shans, and then everything else that comes behind that is the subsidiary of David Shans. I think those are all subcategories of David Shans.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Yeah, I mean the goal is to flip it though. I want people to know the thing and then know me. But for the last all of my life, 40 years, well, so if everything that I've done had my personal brand attached to it. So uh, and I haven't built anything bigger than me. So that's why I'm I'm on a road right now building something.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

And so is so you're trying to reduce notoriety around David Shans and build not reduce it, not reduce it, but um, I want to build the brand of something faster than my name.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

If you if you want someone to I want someone to use a pro name something that you use on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Um book. A book. I read a book every day.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Or let's let's say the short mic. That's a short mic?

SPEAKER_01 34:47

That's a short mic, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Who's the founder?

SPEAKER_01 34:50

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

It doesn't matter. No, I want to build something that people love without having to know that I built it.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

And and and I I I want to ask you the reason for that, but I can also assume the reason too. I'm gonna assume and you can, yeah, then okay. I'm and and this is one of my biggest fears is that I don't want to have a name. I don't think that I want to be quote unquote famous. Because the more people that know you, the I feel like the harder it is to find one true love, true friends, true, a lot of shit. I feel like there's just it's just harder. But the more you're in the background behind a brand, one, you could be walking up the street and no one knows. Like, I feel like the perfect example of that is like the, and I know it's it's a it was a tragic situation, but the the CEO of United Healthcare or something like that, no one knew this guy walking up the road. But see, I feel like once you start getting a name and people start knowing you, that's more money, more problems. You got to pay for security, you don't know who's who, like, etc. Like there's just things that you can't walk into a room and be accepted for you, who you are, without people thinking you got bread or you got money and things like that. In that situation. Huh? Oh, you do you like it?

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Some people like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Some people like knowing, feeling like that.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

People some people like knowing that people know who they are.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

And and could use them for who they are.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Well, I mean, it fulfills a per a certain part of them.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Why are you saying that? I'm not gonna so I'm not the uh arrogant, I want everybody to know who I am, but when I'm walking through the airport and someone appreciates what I do, it fulfills a certain part of me. It does. I mean, I'm not I'm not gonna lie. That's why you see super successful people over the last few years, they start building a personal brand and coming out more. Because they like that. Elon Musk, people ain't really maybe know him like that, like that, but he's he's outside because there's something being fulfilled in the fact that he is Elon Musk.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

So tell us the reason why you want to hide your name behind the brand and not be.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Um again, not that I'm trying to hide my name. It's just I want to build something bigger than me because my name can only scale but so much. The thing can scale infinitely. The owner of that microphone could be a racist, he could be cheating on his wife, he could he could be wearing a KKK mask right now. But it's not based on him, it's based on do we like the sound quality of these microphones? That's true. You can't scale something infinitely that has your brand so attached to it.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Michael Jackson did.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

He did what?

SPEAKER_01 37:52

His name scaled infinitely.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Not infinitely.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

You don't you think it was a Captain Michael Jackson's name?

SPEAKER_02 37:59

100%. Do me a favor, go to a high school and ask do me a favor, go to a high school and ask any kid to name three Michael Jackson songs.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Okay. But if I but I can do the same and say I can go to a high school and they ask three kids to name three podcast microphones.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

100%. Well, but they might they might be able to find that joy, or they might know. It's not that they're into it. What I'm saying is Michael Jackson isn't the celebrity that he used to be, period.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Everybody knows thriller, bro. Come on, I can't. I mean, I man, I I would be highly surprised if I go to a high school right now and like not at least one child, one of them kids know thriller. And if they don't, that's a fell on their parent. Because I'm certain that they raised what they was raised in. You and I are millennials. So therefore, if they're in high school, so that means that the millennials have high schoolers now. They're the ones who's raising them. And if they are if they didn't raise their kids up there. Don't do that, man. I know the first verse. Sing it. Sing it. Do what? Sing it. Like, what you mean? Sing the first verse. So, Mr. Phil, do you're not gonna do that to Michael Jackson? You know Michael Jackson's don't make sense.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

My point is anything that's attached to a person cannot scale infinitely. Period.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

But you don't know the first verse to Michael Jackson's. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

I don't. Because nobody cares. Nobody cares.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

That's funny. That's funny. I like that. Um, all right, last thing I want to talk about, because I know we're punching on time. Um, you, I mean, again, like uh you're you are like the ideal of like I think that you are the ideal of what I call an an untraditional entrepreneur. You you know that that's you. What was your who was your biggest motivation to being like who you are today?

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Um a couple people. One, uh Jim Rohn, first and foremost. Jim Rohn uh was just just I I listened to the man every single day. Um CJ, uh 100%. He spent some time and kind of taught me how to hold my own voice. Um E.T., of course, uh really gave me a huge opportunity. Um my dad was just a brilliant, brilliant man to help shape me. So those three for sure.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Who's the first you say Jim Roan?

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Jim Rohn. J-I-M-R-O-H-N. Jim Rohn.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Oh, it's oh, this is uh there's a black and white folder. Oh I oh yes, I've seen his stuff before. Okay. Okay. So okay, yes. Is he he's no longer oh, he died in okay, he died in 2009.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Okay, I've seen a lot of his stuff on TikTok. Would you for starting entrepreneurs for individuals who are looking to start entrepreneurship and thinking about getting into entrepreneurship? What's the first thing that you would advise somebody to do starting out open starting a business?

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Getting into entrepreneurship. Uh identify the problem that you want to solve first. Let's just figure out the problem that we want to solve and then come up with the idea.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

What if there's like a million, what if there's like a million people do solving that same exact problem?

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Just be a million and one people person. Well, one, there's not a million people solving any problem. It's just not. You're not gonna be the only person solving a problem, for the most part. Unless you line us. I'm gonna make an electric vehicle, or I'm gonna go to the moon, or you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Yeah, but identify the problem first.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Identify the problem. Last question for you There's a post. I'm gonna share this screenshot with you, and I want you, and I'll read it out loud for the audio listeners. We get we get some audio people. This post here, you you put this post out, it says, think less, win more. As an entrepreneur, naturally, an entrepreneur is a strategist. Could you explain to me like when you say think less and win more, what you guys meant by this this particular show?

SPEAKER_02 43:04

You'd have to watch that episode. Watch the episode, and you'll you'll gather it.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Where can people find that episode? I don't know. You pulled it. Man, this is this is your CTA thing, and you supposed to get a CTA?

SPEAKER_02 43:19

I don't know what episode that is, bro. So I don't know what we meant. I don't know when we did that.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

It was just Think Less, Win More.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

What's the title of the video?

SPEAKER_01 43:30

It wasn't a video, it was just a social media post. It was just a still social media post. Well, it has to be a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

It's a thumbnail to a video.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

So it's to be a thumbnail to a video, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

I don't remember which episode it is. But social proof podcasts, just go to your podcast platform or YouTube and look up Social Proof Podcasts. Check us out.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

All right, awesome, awesome. Hey, listen, David, man, listen. I I wanted to start off one, I want to start off by saying thank you for joining the show. I wanted to start off by saying Saying that I'm gonna come on here and debate you, and I did just that.

SPEAKER_03 44:03

Good, man.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

I love the comments.

SPEAKER_03 44:06

Put it in the comments. Who won? Who won in the case?

SPEAKER_01 44:09

But yeah, put it in the comments. Who won? Um, you definitely got the high C. I don't know about the other stuff, but you definitely got the high C. But no, you did good. I think that I I think that I like, like, all jokes aside, when I look at what you're doing for businesses, business owners, entrepreneurship. The biggest thing about what we do here is challenging people to think just that, understanding that it's not an easy path. You know what I'm saying? But you take it and you you you really make people think about their business outside of just talking at them or talking to them. When I saw um the hot seat, I knew exactly what you were doing. And some people would miss it or go over your their head, but I know that in reality, you're leaving a mark on the planet, but you're doing it the untraditional way. Because the traditional way, you know, people are expecting that. But you this is where you have to create an environment of a new wave of generation to understand entrepreneurship. And you've done that for entrepreneurs from just, you know, the hot seat, your social proof podcast, and and everything you're doing in the business world. This is why when I take my time to come to the podcast summit, and you know, I devote my time to that. This is why. Because I know that you're making an impact to thousands of people who believe in what you're doing. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, well, thank you guys for tuning in. Let us know who won a debate because I don't care what nobody says. And also, also, also, really ask yourself can David really beat me in Monopoly and Space? Monopoly and spades. And can you name the first sentence in the Michael Jackson thriller song? Thank you guys for tuning in, and we'll see you guys on the next episode. We'll talk soon.