JCW Wrestling, AEW Kudos and The Bloodline

In this week episode, the guys cover JCW Wrestling and how it brings fans back to a wrestling product that we no longer see on the mainstream. The second topic is AEW and how booking has been very strong as of late. And our last topic is the The Bloodline, specifically Roman Reigns and his new heel persona. Did Solo Sikoa's recent success as a new fan favorite change WWE's direction with Roman?

Thank you for listening to our podcast!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

What is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Three Status of the Marks podcast. I'm Shay. I'm here with Brooks and I'm here with Ryan. Your three marks. We're here every week. What's up, guys?

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Hola. What's up?

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Alright. So I mean, we're gonna hop right into today's show. We have three topics, as always. I have a topic, Ryan brings up a topic, and then Brooks has a topic as well. And I want to get started this week because I attended uh AW Dynamite um on Wednesday, this past Wednesday. And rarely do I leave a show. And this is going back in history 20 years or so. Um SummerSlams and Rumbles and Manias and AW pay-per-views and dynamites and Raws and SmackDowns and blah blah blah blah blah, right? Rarely do I leave a show where I feel like they kind of connected all the dots and they did basically everything right. I feel like last night's show was like spot on. Even if it had like a couple like dead spots in it, before all in, I think they absolutely sold the show from top to bottom. They covered every match, every star was there, all of them were used in a perfect way, and they progressed every story. Ryan, have you seen you did you see Dynamite?

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Uh I didn't watch a lot, uh, but I did see like what happened, everything. And I I did text to you last night. I was like, dude, you went to a really good show. And the one thing is it wasn't even their go-home show, and they still fit in everybody there. They they everybody except for MJF, everybody was on the card. So if you were there, you get the best bang for your book. Everybody was in a match, everybody was there in some capacity. They even did like a 30-minute runover, which I was confused because I get AEW notifications on Twitter of like everything, and I'm like, it's 10:30, and I'm still getting notifications. I'm like, what the heck? They have a little runover, and I mean, like, you definitely got the best bang for your book. Everybody was everybody showed up. It looked like a go home, go home show to the to all in.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Yeah, and I'm feeling like they're doing runovers often now, and maybe that's just because the big show's coming up, so they're trying to make sure that they cover all the bases, which is fine, right? Because even on the WWE side, you know, when it's WrestleMania season, uh, you know, they go to three hours for you know SmackDown and Raw runs over some, so it makes sense. I get it. But I wanted to talk about the potential for all in because I think AW is a lot stronger than it has been in the past few years, not only from a roster standpoint, but from a storyline perspective. I know a lot of people complain that they're less story driven, but I think they've done a really good job lately of building stories, not like that not that they haven't done stories in the past, like we know that, but I think they're just doing a really good job right now. And we have some prospects coming, right? Because I know if you haven't heard, we know that Ilya Dragonoff has either left WWE or he is leaving soon. I'm not sure if the contract is over. Uh Brooks, you mentioned something about his contract status. What what do you know?

SPEAKER_04 3:58

From what I've seen today, his contract officially expired, and they offered him a new deal, apparently several new deals, over the last few months. Uh Triple H specifically wanted to keep him, but he already made his mind up he was leaving. So he didn't really take into account those contract offers.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Got it. I mean, if if you were in his shoes, just given what you've seen of him over the last six months, would you renew?

SPEAKER_04 4:32

At this point in time, no.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

Um, I would bet on yourself, especially knowing that AEW is about to do a show or one of their biggest show of the year in the UK, where you know you're gonna get a great reaction. So you probably can get more money out of that uh that deal early on, too. Might as well walk and and see what you can do.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

I mean, worst case scenario, you you make yourself undeniable in the indies again and come back later because they're gonna offer him another deal at some point. He's still young enough that that they're gonna try to get him back.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

I wanna touch on like my my whole look on Ilya because that is I you could probably argue that there's other fumbles that W has done, but I think this is probably one of the biggest fumbles that W has done by letting him go. Because even it was like I think after Mania 40, he made his main roster debut and then he got hurt, so he was out for a little while. But he came back last year and putting on banger matches, like he was strong, he was built strong, and then he won the US title. Him and Melo had some really good matches, like the chemistry there was great, and then Sami Zayn came, took Iliad out of the picture, took Melo out of the picture. It's like you don't need to be relying on these veterans when you were building up Melo and Ilya, just using that as an example, and that's probably why Ilya is like leaving. He's like, you know what, dude, I value myself and look at the progress that Ilya's made over the last like what how long was he for like seven years or so? He was with because he was in W UK, right? Yes, he was, and then just going through the whole NXT and him like he bulked up, he got muscle, like he got the tattoos, he looks like a freaking killer, and it's like now it's like he lost all that momentum and everything, and he's like, you know what, I want to go take my ball and go and go to promotion where someone will you know treat me fairly. Maybe he might go to TNA. I if I if he goes to TNA, put the world title on that man immediately just because he he could be the one to carry the company, like Moose has been, because he they need a strong guy who's built who could be built for a world champion status and potentially carry the company a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

So for like three months until they cut him basically, but I was gonna say, don't be surprised if Melo winds up following the same trajectory because they they give him something small, then they just kind of sweep it from under him. And I just don't see Triple H using Melo um in a meaningful way going forward. But that's just that's just my thought. Not to say that it's gonna happen. I I just don't think mellow is on the priority list for uh the WWE right now, and and that's no fault of his. I know he has his like mellow don't miss thing, and I swear this seems so one-dimensional, but I really do believe that your wrestling ability does not matter in the WWE. I think it's all about your audience connection, uh, how the crowd reacts to you, do you have a catchphrase, merch, and all that other like vanity type stuff. Things that look good on TV to me. Uh I think that's that's changed over the last couple years since TKO is uh taken over the company.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Yeah, well, what can you do?

SPEAKER_02 8:10

But um, I wanted to tie this back to a potential all-in appearance. Like, I know there's potential that he could show up, Ilja could show up in uh the UK or at at Wembley at all in, but we already have a potential debut, which I think uh is like 95% known at this point that Kofi and Xavier are probably gonna be the mystery opponents or the mystery partners for swerve in this trio's title throw it at the wall type match, because it seems that it's gonna be hangman and brodito, it's going to be the demand, it's gonna be the conglomeration, it's gonna be the dogs. I don't know where the bang bang gang fits in it, and now we have to they're gonna they're gonna put that many trios in it in a match. I don't know. They were all in the ring yesterday, and hangman said, Whoever wants a shot, show up, and then swerve backstage says, Oh, anybody can show up. He's like bet. So potentially up to six trios.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Damn, how are they gonna function that shit?

SPEAKER_02 9:27

It it may not be six, but it seems like the way that they set that up, that there could be up to six.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

So, with that being said, see, this is where I want to chime in with the how I I this is what I do respect about AEW and Tony Khan because they do fit a lot of people on their pay-per-views, and it's a pay-per-view. Like, there's people that pay good money to go watch their favorite wrestler. It doesn't matter if it's Will Offspray or Okada or the Bucks, like you're gonna go and you're almost guaranteed to see almost every single wrestler on that card. Whether it's the pre-show or the main show, that's what I at least can respect. I mean, I know it's it waters down the product when you just put everybody in the pay-per-view and you think they just earn an opportunity on the card, but for one, it's also all in. It's their biggest show of the year.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

It does not water down the product, it does not.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

As long as you as long as you think that, because I don't think it does.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

If you go back, if you go back in WrestleMania history, now we're not saying these matches are classic matches, like, but there's always been matches on WrestleMania where there's just been like a bunch of people, right? And I've always been a fan of those types of matches. Looking back at WrestleMania uh random number uh shoot. Uh which one was in Atlanta Edge and Del Rio. Was that 27? Yeah, 27. Heath Slater, my main man Heath Slater and the Nexus got that eight-man tag. I was so happy to see that guy walking down the aisle. Today that wouldn't happen. Um, looking at WrestleMania 26, where they did the the Divas 10-man tag, and Beth Phoenix got her first walk down the WrestleMania aisle. That would never happen today. Uh WrestleMania 2000, the hardcore title, whatever 15-minute challenge where everybody was interim champion, that just wouldn't happen today. And I and I miss that about WWE. But maybe we'll see something wild and random and throw at the wall at all.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

Don't forget the WrestleMania 17 uh gimmick battle royal.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Yes, oh so classic. Man, I miss that.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

I feel like I watched that match recently too. I don't know why, but I feel like I watched that. They put the whole match on was that on was it on the vault, or was that on the on the YouTube guy?

SPEAKER_04 11:56

Okay, their throwback vault, YouTube game. Who who won that?

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Sheik was it sheik, yes, that's right. Because it only watched that recently. That's right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Remember the remember the cruiserweight open at WrestleMania 20?

SPEAKER_03 12:13

The cruiserweight open? No.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, they had a cruiserweight open at WrestleMania 20, Ultimo Dragon, Chavo, Rey Mysterio, Billy Kidman, Shannon Moore. Like Billy Kidman and Shannon Moore got entrances at WrestleMania at MSG. Like, I was so freaking happy to just see them come out to their own music at the biggest show of the year. Like, uh I love I love a good WrestleMania debut, even if it's only like a three-minute match. I don't care. Like, give them the moment.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

Oh, and they had the they had like a fatal foy tag team match too.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

They had two of them. They had one one for the raw tag titles and one for the SmackDown tag titles.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

They did holy shit.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yeah, because they act they put Cade and uh what's the other one? Garrison Cade and Mark Jendrak on in on one of the teams. I was like, look at those guys.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Oh, that's Lance Cade, yeah. Lance Cade. What the hell?

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Circling back to the point of the sort of this topic was the Battle Royal potentially having or the big matches at at all in, having the potentially a shit ton of tag teams and or trios in the trios match, and then the battle royal itself. You were you were saying like with the new day thing being the probably not a surprise since everyone seems to know that's what's gonna happen. It's it's not like they haven't done multiple debuts in a show before, especially those bigger shows.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Oh yeah, for sure. Um I don't know. I don't know, because I always feel like they have something up their sleeve, but in order for them to do something like this, I feel like it had to have been something that had already been worked out. I'm not saying that it can't happen quickly, but I don't know, that's just the way that I feel. Because the casino gauntlet, like we know it's mainly gonna come down to Andrade and MJF. I mean, with them being one and two, but they're also probably gonna be the two biggest names in the match. So I don't know. I feel like his debut would be overshadowed in a match like that, but you know, AW just kind of does, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:28

Yeah, and and with them, especially with the the um wild card or whatever they call it in that match. I mean, that's that's an easy way to have someone debut, come in with a ring full of people, clear a bunch out, and then still lose. Like they don't have to win the match to to make their stamp on it. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

They usually do that for almost every single casino gauntlet or battle related. It's always a debut or a return. Yeah. And I think they play it right.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

So who's there? Who's who's away right now that could return?

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Keith Lee.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

Sounds like he's retired. Um, I guess you could you could say Daniel Bryan. I don't know how Adam Cole's health is at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Gold dust.

SPEAKER_04 15:19

Ooh.

unknown 15:20

No.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

What? He got hurt last year at All In, I'm pretty sure. Or like right after Allen last year, and yeah, like double knee replacement or something, yeah, or whatever it was.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

I don't know. I guess there's a lot of possibilities there because you you can never predict what the heck AW is gonna be doing, or Tony Khan, whatever he has up his sleeve. But uh, I think it's gonna be a great show. Definitely looking forward to it. I mean, it's probably gonna run really long.

SPEAKER_04 15:50

Has has Buddy come back yet?

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Oh, he's cleared, he's cleared to compete. He's clear, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

Uh has Lucha Saurus come back yet? Has Wardlow come back yet?

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Lucha Saurus did come back. Uh did he?

SPEAKER_04 16:07

I know he came back and was with Jungle Boy for a little bit, but then he got hurt again. I don't know what happened.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

You know, just give me holograms so him and El Clone can stand off and eliminate each other, and then we can finally lay that to bed.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

See, Shay sends me no pictures last night except for oh, look at my guy L clone. That's it. Look at my guy L clone in the main event.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

In the main event. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

But that's all I have, guys. Who's up next?

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Uh I think I am, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Go for it.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

We I uh so for a little while, off and on for a little while, um, I've been catching, well, not really catching, I've just been seeing clips of JCW Juggalo Championship Wrestling. And it sparked my attention even more when I see Brett Lauderdale, the owner of GCW on on JCW and Nick Game.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Ryan, Ryan. What what is a juggalo?

SPEAKER_03 17:10

I have no idea what a juggalo is. It's ICP.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

So I'll tell people where GP is insane clown posse.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

So they have like their own promotion. If you guys aren't familiar with Juggalo Championship Wrestling, they have their own uh ICP, Insane Clown Posse has their own promotion. And who is who's the freaking GM? Vince Russo.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

So I look at JCW and I'm like, this is almost if you this is almost like a modern day WCW on drugs. That's how I can compare it.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

You gotta finish every sentence with bro, bro.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Bro. And I know Shea was watching it for a little bit, and he was always telling me all the crazy stuff that was going on, and and I don't even know how the hell they get away with half of it. Or even who even signs up for it. But like they got like James Storm, Mr. Anderson. I I've forgot who is even world champion right now. Cocaine is there. Um like you got all these names. I don't know how the hell they're booking Mr. Anderson there. I don't know why James Storm is booked there.

SPEAKER_04 18:26

You know what's what's funny though, if you actually like go online and look at their roster, their roster is Hollywood or Hollyhood, Haley J, Shaggy Two Dope, Violent J. That's it? That's all it shows. If you go into this like men's men's roster, Shaggy Two Dope, Violet J. Teams, Shaggy Two Dope, Violet J. Extras. You have part-time wrestler, Violent J. Manager, Violent J. No, you're Violent J. Promoter, Shaggy Two Dope, and Violet J.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

That might be their actual site, but if you look on it, they have they got Willie Mack there. That's a good pickup. Carrie Morton, Big Vito, PCO, Matt. Well, I guess Matt Cardona. Why is he still a part of this? I guess it depends on where you're looking at. It's not updated. But um like like these some of these names are on here. I don't even know if it's freaking updated, but it's probably not.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

No, but I mean they're in indie, they don't have an a full-time roster. So that's right.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

That's also true.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah, it's like obviously the the people that promote the show being the Insane Clown Posse, they are the full-time roster, and Russo, apparently.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

And even Noah, I look at what they're doing and I'm like, who would even watch this? Or why the hell would some of some of the stuff that goes on at um their shows? I mean, but the thing is like they're different, and it makes people want to watch it, I guess, by doing some of the the shit they do, especially with like when cocaine does before he does his choke slam, he looks like he's snorting a bunch of coke. He gets all hyped up snorting coke, and then he I don't know about you, but I enjoy it. That's why I said it's different. I mean, it it gets me to like check out somebody's clips every single time I see a JCW clip on my Facebook. I'm like, oh, let me watch this and see what the hell's going on. And I'm like, oh wow, this is interesting.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

I mean, it's different, it's different from today. It's different from today, but it reminds you of millennium style wrestling, like a mix between ECW without the violence and attitude era style, like crash TV, as they used to say, and then with some WCW mix in there. I mean, it's literally like a modern version of 2000s wrestling.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

What's crazy is that that they have been around, Juggle Championship Wrestling has been around since 1999. They started wrestling uh in WCW and have lasted longer than WCW lasted.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

True. True. Now I know I read somewhere that it's it's a lot of financial burden on them, right? Even though they're in San Clone Posse, you know, they may have the the money and the revenue to to cover it. I did read that it's quite the quite the financial burden on them still, which is why they don't have any type of like deals for like streaming and stuff like that. So that's why they're on like YouTube, but I think they put on a solid niche product in this current market. And what I really like about JCW is when they do these like when they do those custom like ads in between the segments and the matches, they Could be for like a future show, or maybe they're just like something like silly and wacky, like advertising something that JCW is selling like DVDs or something like that. Like they all have their own like spin on it. They're using like AI stuff. It's wild. It's like psychedelic. You feel like you're on drugs half the time.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

Well, I mean, that's it's the insane clown posty.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah. But it's it's just it's fun to me. It's different. Like you you just don't get stuff like that in wrestling anymore. So I dig it.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

And so you kind of put me on it when you this was like it was probably like months and months ago when you first started like checking it out. And like you said, it's different and you like it, it's unique, it's they have like their own niche, and now they have like their gathering of the I'm not sure if the gathering of the jugglers is this weekend or it just happened, but they run like events, they run like wrestling shows during like the gathering of the jugglos, and they get a big, really big crowd for that.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

And so I so did I ever tell you guys why I never gave JCW a chance in the past. No, so I had friends that would go down to JCW and I don't know if they work shows or they just helped out backstage or whatever, right? But they would always talk about how the guys would be in the back, and you know, there's drugs in the back, and blah blah blah, right? All right, which is which is normal in wrestling, right? So not not out of the ordinary, but my mom has or maybe has had has maybe a friend who introduced me to her son, and he was a wrestling fan, and he's like, Yeah, he's like, I really enjoy JCW. You know, I drive up to go to the shows, which I'm assuming is uh like up in Philly, and I'm like, oh yeah, cool. Like maybe, you know, like one day I'll go out with you and and go to the shows. So we started like texting and and talking on the phone and stuff like that. And one day I was going to I want to say a pay-per-view, it may have been Mania, I don't know. But he called me and I'm on the bus. I'm like, hey, I'm about to you know hop on the the bus to head to the airport. And he's like, Oh man, he's like, Where are you going? I'm going to Mania or wherever I was going. He's like, Oh, I wish I could go. He's like, but I'm I'm not able to fly. I was like, Why aren't you able to fly? He's like, We're we're not gonna talk about it. And I was like, Okay, I was like, This is uh he's like, Yeah, we can't we we can't go to a JCW show, man. I'm sorry, and I never gave it a second thought after that. I was like, this just seems so fitting of what I've always known about JCW and their fans, and I never gave it a second chance until like earlier this year, which is like wrong of me because not every fan's like that, but I don't know. Sometimes you have a bias, you know.

SPEAKER_04 25:08

You can't have a bias, bro. I know it's a TV product.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

I know.

SPEAKER_04 25:12

I'm writing a TV show. This isn't wrestling or wrestling, it's a TV show, bro.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Bro, him and him and Matt Riddle would get along.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

But you were so the other day you were talking about JCW and GCW crossover, and you were excited about it. Now you're not talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

I mean a little bit. I got I I like I said, I'm I don't I I don't think I've given them the proper chance. Like I prefer GCW.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Yeah, but now they're gonna be working together, so you get the best both worlds.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Like, well, we so they were working together last year. I'm not sure if you remember She With the Summer Slam. They had like we didn't stay after the initial GCW show, but they did like the G the JCW and GCW collab show. Yes, which John Wade Murdoch got lit on fire and they didn't put him out in time, and he got like burns all over his body during that show. But the following weekend or two weeks later, after that, they did the gathering of the jugglers, and JCW and GCW did like uh a two-day war type thing where they were like going to war with each other for like two days, which they were pretty much doing that at that uh that SummerSlam weekend uh event, and they're very similar with like with what they got going on because GCW does do some like edgy stuff, but not like JCW. But I do think they have their similarities and differences, and if they can that's probably what uh goes back to you said they having money issues and it's like a burden on them. So maybe GCW could either be a buyer or maybe helping them out, and they're trying to like put that on camera. Like, hey, if G GCW wants to be part ownership of Jugglo Championship Wrestling, even though GCW has their own JCW, which is Jersey Championship Wrestling, which uh Bert Lauderdale is also owner of that promotion too, which they only like run shows like once a month for that promotion. Yeah, but it would be cool to see, and maybe I might tune into JCW more and actually watch their full episodes and not just the clips that I see.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah, you should.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

Probably wouldn't be as much of a financial burden if they'd stop buying all the drugs.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

Like you you know me, I'm I watch all kinds of wrestling. Like I'm tapped into probably more promotions than the average wrestling fan. I'm I'm always trying to support other promotions or smaller promotions or just anything I can, you know. You just never know, you never know what you could either whether if you attend an indie show or if you're just checking out, you never know what you could come across. Like I was watching, he now goes by EK Prosper, but I was watching him back in 2021. I went to a deathmatch show in Orlando, and he wasn't in a deathmatch, but it was a no-ring match, and it was him and his tag team partner, and they're wrestling in this bar, and I'm like, this kid's got talent, I can tell, but now I'm seeing him on NXT every Tuesday. Like he's getting a big push, like you just never know by checking out promotions, or you just never know where these guys could eventually take off to. So that's why I try and give every promotion an equal chance.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

Yeah, gotta give him a chance, bro.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Okay, bro.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

So when you when you mentioned about how they get Mr. Anderson and how they get James Storm, I mean, honestly, where the heck else were these guys gonna work?

SPEAKER_03 28:50

Well, thinking about like James Storm, he had an opportunity, like he talked about it um on his interview with Chris Van Vliet like a long time ago, that he was supposed to be in DW back in 2020. He was gonna they were gonna debut him in the rumble that year, and then like they didn't, they were gonna save it to the raw after Mania, but then COVID happened, and then Didowe never reached out to him. Because but also he had like a little run in NXT, and everyone was like super happy. I don't know what happened with that, but like he had a little run in NXT where he showed up for a few weeks, and then I guess he went back to TNA, and then they did we try to get James Storm back, and since COVID happened, they kind of just like forgot about him. They didn't want to sign any new talent because of the whole COVID thing.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

Six years later than the damn little minor inconvenience COVID was.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

It definitely took a lot away. Takeover, and we were gonna see Finn Balor versus Walter. I don't think that was gonna be for the NXT title, I think. Or no. Uh I forgot who was NXT champion at the time, but it was gonna be Walter versus Finn Balor in NXT TakeOver in Tampa.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

Before COVID ruined that because uh Gunther at the time was still overseas, so they weren't using any any of the UK guys. But because that's when Jordan Devlin, aka JD McDonough was cruiserweight champion, so they had to crown an interim cruiserweight champion until JD McDonough could come back to the States. And you know, that's just off topic of uh things. I don't even know how the hell that got brought up, but oh James Storm. Duh. I don't even know how the hell we just God, all this wrestling.

SPEAKER_05 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

But screw going here, if what I'm hearing is true, poor Gunther.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

There's never a poor, there's never a poor Gunther. It's all that all this push he's been getting, there's no poor Gunther.

SPEAKER_04 31:17

I know. But do you remember that tweet or whatever it was when they said they were changing his name and Keith Lee was like, if what I'm hearing is true, poor Walter.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:26

I was like, Well, it turns out it worked out just fucking fine for him.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

For real. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

Meanwhile, what's Keith Lee doing?

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Oh no, that's not even.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

I tried to mention him earlier and Shay wasn't having it, so he's just not having it at all.

SPEAKER_04 31:44

I mean, dude, dude's like, I'm gonna go to AEW and then I'm gonna disappear, and then my wife's gonna leave.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

No, he's gonna win the AEW tag titles and then disappear.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

And then his wife's gonna leave him. Got it. All right, Brooks, you're up. Alright. Um, I think we mentioned a couple weeks ago that they had the bloodline listed as heels, but they had Roman listed as a face. Uh apparently that's already changed, and Roman is back to being a heel. Uh I guess the only reason I can think of why they're doing that is because they didn't think Solo was gonna work so good as a face, and they clearly ended up being wrong about that one. Um, how do y'all feel about Solo's face running? Do you think that's actually why they turned him back heel, or is it because they need the stories?

SPEAKER_02 32:36

No, I I think that uh whoever's booking couldn't manipulate it in the way that they thought they could, and they're pivoting, even though that they say that they don't make decisions based on how the audience is vocal, and I think that's a complete crock.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

Well, I wouldn't I wouldn't say that that they're pivoting based on the audience, anyways, because even when he was a heel, they still cheered him, right? They're still gonna cheer him every week now. He can go out there and be a dastardly heel, and he the crowd's still gonna be behind him, they're still gonna treat him like he's a face. So what's it matter if he was a face or a heel in on the listings?

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Right, but if they were going to allow Solo to be naturally who he is, which is like a goofy heel, like that's the same thing that Jay Uso's already doing. That's the same thing that Jimmy Uso is already doing. Like you can't have the same character on the heel side and the face side, then they're just gonna just out silly each other, and everybody's just gonna laugh at everything that they do.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

I mean, but I feel like there's a difference there also in solo being the goofy face, it's actually goofy and actually funny. With Jay and Jimmy, well, especially Jay trying to be a goofy heel, it's not fucking working at all.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Like, even when Jimmy went heel against his brother Jay, and Jimmy was doing the whole no yeet thing, like you're dude, you're doing that as a goofy way. Like you're still you're a heel, but doing that as a goofy way. But now but now, like seeing solo during his little face run, I'm liking it because it's like he's still kind of being in a heel way, but he's also against the heels now, and he's still being goofy, but he's I don't even know how to explain it, because if you look at it, he's pretty much doing the same thing that we would what he's always done, but he's just face.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

Yeah, so and ultimately that's what it comes down to. It doesn't really matter if they're heel or face, it's or what they're trying to be. If if they're in a certain situation, they're gonna come off as the heel or the face either way and can act the exact same now. It's too much gray area, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

I I do want to mention because I always talk about how the my one manager I work with, he's always like giving me shit on how today's wrestling is just really bad. And he's like, and and he always sees what I post on Facebook, so always sees the clips that I that I share on Facebook, and he's like, Oh, all the Samoans, they all look the same, blah blah blah, they all do the same, like they're just gonna rely on the Samoans. Because like I he somebody shared something about Zilla, and I'm like, Well, these guys are good. A lot of these guys are good, they're born into it, they're they've been around for a really long time in wrestling. Like, what else do you want to do, man? Like, naturally, not fully natural, but the second and third generation wrestlers are where it's at. Like, not all of them maybe have the best talent because that didn't work out with Curtis Axel as well.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

I mean, for a little bit it didn't, but that's that's where it's at because that's where WWE wants it to be.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Yeah, but if you think about it, look at like majority of these second and third generation wrestlers, they're pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

It's all marketing.

SPEAKER_04 36:11

They still have to get over, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

It's it's all the way that they portray it, and that's they know that WD has found a way to make money on the second generation talent, third generation talent. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_04 36:25

Because I mean you can go, or like I said, they still have to get over. Go back and look at uh what's this face, the the Samoan dude that joined Legacy for a while.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Oh manu, oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

Yeah, he didn't get over. No, he did not. What was was it I can't remember if it was Deuce or Domino? Was Snookah's Deuce, Deuce? No, Sim Snookah. You can go even further back. Eric Watts definitely didn't get over.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Well, Eric Watts was just terrible.

SPEAKER_04 36:55

Exactly. But it doesn't it doesn't just being a second or third generation talent doesn't mean you're gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Well it doesn't mean poor Manu never really had a chance. They didn't like his look, they didn't like his look. That's what that is. He never got a chance.

SPEAKER_04 37:11

Even if he did, he didn't he couldn't talk, he didn't have charisma, he wasn't gonna make it either way, unless he had a a gimmick like Umaga did, it wasn't gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

Yeah, but I mean it's all in like where they put the guy. Like, why would you put the guy there? Same, like why would you put Snookah as a greaser?

SPEAKER_04 37:33

Yeah, that didn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

I've talked about this before, but Deuce and Domino were one of my favorite tag teams of all time.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

I know. I just liked them.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

I'm sorry. I liked them.

SPEAKER_03 37:46

I like to hear that. I liked how they were tag team champions really quick. They but they put the straps on them real quick, too.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

Yeah, it's it still comes down to the even with being a next generation person, you still have to be able to get yourself over. You have to have a connection somehow.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

Well, according to Stax, all you have to do is just be hooking up with one of the second generation wrestlers to be part of the family.

SPEAKER_04 38:14

I mean, you can you can look at that group in NXT. Like it it's are they doing anything? Like, what's like I know they're living off their parents' legacy, but they're literally having to put their their parents on the t-shirts to make it feel like they're living off their legacy because they're not living up to it, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

And well, Stax, what is Stax gonna do after birthright's done? That's the question.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Getting released. That's the question.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Ariana Grace, what is she gonna do after birthright? I don't see much going on there. Now, Finley has potential.

SPEAKER_04 38:51

Yes, yes, he's got potential. Lexus King, I think he's pretty much hit his plateau as much as I like him and hope that he can grow. I don't see any growth there.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

Uh Dempsey probably has the the easiest path because he doesn't have to talk, he can just fucking wrestle.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

No, not not in this WWE.

SPEAKER_04 39:16

In in NXT. How about that? In NXT, when he comes up, the worst case scenario, you put fucking you keep Regal with him as his mouthpiece.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

But at least in NXT, I feel like he's got the most room to to grow out of those guys. Anyways, the Roman thing. It also could also just be that they're we're starting to approach Survivor series, and it's easier to book a heel versus face war games match if Roman's heel.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

I really do miss when war games had like a more uh random feel to it. War game like every year having like a match with the bloodline members is I'm tired of it.

SPEAKER_04 40:05

Well, I mean the wasn't AEW kind of doing the same thing with Len Guts for a while when it was like the elite was in it every year or the Death Riders Didn't it kind of stay the same for several years?

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Uh I can't recall. Not that I can recall. It may have been the elite like two years in a row, as far as I can remember. Death Riders probably like less year, maybe. I don't know how long we've been doing Bloodline now. Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:35

I think we've done Bloodline. Oh no, well, we didn't do Bloodline. It was Judgment Day and Drew McIntyre versus it was like Cody, okay, Randy, Jay, Kevin, and Sammy, maybe? No, I don't think right. But it was Jud No, it was a f yeah, it was Judgment Day and Drew versus Orton, Cody, or Jay, and I can't really think of it right now.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

I'd have to look it up, but so there was a break in there then.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

Yeah. It was the it was 2024. Oh yeah, because Seth was in it. That was when Punk came back, 2024, 2023.

SPEAKER_04 41:17

Got it. So so far, Blood and Guts, the first one was Inner Circle versus the Pinnacle. And then they had the Elite versus the Blackpool Combat Club. Then the Elite versus Team AEW. Then Back to the Blackpool Combat Club and the Jericho Appreciation Society, so might as well have just been the inner circle again. So I mean, there's out of the one, two, three, four matches, essentially the same three teams have been in all but one of them. Or have been in all of them, the same three teams have similar or appeared in all of them so far.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

The inner circle's not the appreciation society.

SPEAKER_04 42:00

It's still Jericho, it was still Sammy, it's still Hager. It was the same group. Three of the five people were the same people.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

I forgot that Hager was even in that group.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

I think I was at the first the first blood and guts of 2020, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:17

I don't even know.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

I was I was at that one. Oh, sorry, yeah, 2021. I was there. I was in yep. I remember that.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

That just shows how much I like don't pay attention to Jake Hager. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Leave my boy, leave my boy Jake Hager alone.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Like I remember Daniel Garcia and uh what what are the 2.0.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

I forgot about freaking Hager. Good lord. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 42:47

I mean, it's easy to forget.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

As big as he is, you would think. You know?

SPEAKER_04 42:53

Hey, the the the bigger he is, the harder he falls. Just ask uh Mahabele Shira.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

I do I do hate that the because you talk about how like the you miss the feeling of like war games, and dude, war games felt so special in NXT. It felt great, but then they they brought it up to the main roster, and it's like, damn, bro, there's just like it doesn't have that same feel anymore.

SPEAKER_04 43:20

It also and when it was in NXT, it was fresh again because it had been gone for so long. And the stables that were in those matches actually had like using uh undisputed era and those kind of it it was different for that time because WWE wasn't doing stables either. But like now it's the same formula over and over. Even if you look back at the NXT ones, it's it's like the women's ones are the same people they put in the women's ones now. So it's not like it's really any different than the NXT ones, it just was a different time and not being used to seeing that anymore. Good since WCW. Get out of town. That was the one thing WCW did great. Even though again they used a lot of the same people, the like the horsemen or Team Sting or whatever, that it was constantly the same people in there involved somehow. It was just a lot better back then. Except for the time they called war games or they called it war games, but it was the three cages stacked up on top of each other.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Oh my gosh. Terrible. That was terrible. Thanks, Rooster.

SPEAKER_03 44:31

Didn't T and A do something similar? They had like a cage on top of a cage or something, or they had like uh it was like lethal lockdown, right? Where they lowered like a bunch of weapons on top or something like that. What's it dude? T and A had something very similar.

SPEAKER_04 44:51

Yeah, I think you're right.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

I feel like you know what I'm talking about? It was like I think main event mafia was part of it one time. They there's like a cage on top of the cage.

SPEAKER_04 45:01

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if they put a cage on top of the cage, but I do remember them having like the weapons ones. Well they had they had like their version of the chamber, which just had a roof to it.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

Yeah, I'm looking at some stuff right now. They had it's weird, dude.

SPEAKER_04 45:18

They had like a what the hell is this, dude? The electric one, the electric cage match the Dudleys were in.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Team Cage defeated Team Tomco. Whatever match that was in. Could you imagine? Yeah, lethal lockdown in 2008.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

Could you imagine being in a spot where where you thought Tyson Tomco was a big enough name to be a leader of a team? Oh man. Oh yeah, it's where they put the fucking catwalk across the top off of it. Yeah. So then WWE kind of recycled. Yeah. And then WWE recycled that when they did the uh the UFC style cage thing, whatever they called that.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

Oh, the thing that like Riddle and Seth did, and then I think Riddle and Timothy Thatcher did it too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:12

But yeah, that lethal lockdown one was basically just a cell. It had the top to it, but then they had two little platforms on the side to make them like two foot taller than the rest of the cage. I think that was also the one where AJ jumped and did the forearm off the top through the hole and almost hit the crossbar and killed himself. He didn't hit it, but he got damn close where it was like a little too close for comfort. But anyways, it's looking like we're gonna again get bloodline versus somebody in war games. I guess it's gonna be four on four this year because I don't see how they add a fifth to Roman's team. What if they don't see that happen?

SPEAKER_03 46:48

I'd be okay if they'd if they win with went ahead with Penta and maybe Penta, Ray, Phoenix, LA Knight, and Solo. Yeah, versus Bloodline.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

I don't see it being Penta and Phoenix. Um definitely think solo and and LA are gonna be involved. It's just who's gonna be involved. Unless they put Penta and Phoenix together and have them actually team against the Usos, which god, I can't wait for that to happen. It needs to happen at least once. Don't let them be there and never fight like the motor city machine guns never get in the shot at the Usos. But anyways, that's what I got. Yeah, warning shot. That was a lot of that was that was a lot. That was hilarious, though. Y'all okay? Anyone get hit? Oh, okay. I mean, I guess there's also the chance that by war games, Jacob's not with the bloodline anymore. They kind of tease that, I guess, with him. I mean, he followed Roman's orders, but he also just stood there and watched Roman get his ass handed to him.

SPEAKER_03 47:55

Oh, we could also see Royce Keys come back, too. Yeah, I don't think he's coming back anytime soon, bro. He'll be back by Survivor Series. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

It's that three months? Yeah, three months from now? Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 48:09

They're saying out indefinitely. But he didn't get hurt, right? It was a family thing.

SPEAKER_04 48:14

I don't know. Guess we'll find out. I mean, I I'm I hope he comes back. I would love to see him in a big match like that. And especially if they actually let him do something productive in there.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

Because if we do get a four-on-four war games, it could probably possibly be Penta Royce Keyes, LA Knight, and solo versus the bloodline, and Royce Keyes being the powerhouse for that team.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

It's possible. But then, you know, it'll probably end up being like the bloodline versus LA solo, punk, and Cody, because WWE can't fucking help themselves.

SPEAKER_03 48:49

Probably.

SPEAKER_04 48:56

But it seemed like I I from what I was hearing, the whole point of Roman being face was for at some point the bloodline to actually turn on him, the Usos and Jacob turning on him, and then Roman having to get Seth involved to to be his number two against them. But if they turned him back heel already, then I'm assuming that's not happening. Or they'll just save it for further down the line. I mean, because there was obviously that rumor that Rock was coming back and he was taking over the bloodline and kicking Roman out, and yada yada yada. Rock's probably been like, nope, not coming back yet, so do something else. He's like, y'all let me know like around the rumble time, then I'll come back so I can make sure I have my match at Mania.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

Yeah, we'll probably see Roman and uh Rock at Mania and Saudi.

SPEAKER_04 49:47

Probably. He ain't gonna turn down that money, especially with his Hollywood career dying. Yeah, I've been seeing stuff about the how he's gonna be real picky about what he's what movies he's in now because he's he's tired of failing. Oh anyways, that's all I got.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

Alright, guys. We want to thank you once again for another successful week of the Three Stage of Marks podcast. Thanks for listening on behalf of the three Marks, Shay, Brooks, and Ryan. Appreciate you guys. We're out. Later, Mark.