62 - Kenna Perkins Pt 3: Don’t Compare Your Insides to Other People’s Outsides

For Part 3: Join recent grad and Northern California and Boone Street Zoo native Honored Guest Kenna Penelope Smith-Perkins as she talks about being a double major in psychology, how to advocate for yourself and others, academic boundaries, the intensity of nursing school, finding your safe spot, finding your community, “B” is for boundaries, and more!

For Parts 1 and 2: (explicit for content) From Kenna herself: “Today I'm going to be talking about some of my personal life experiences and that can be triggering. I talk about mental illness, addiction, suicide, homelessness, and a lot of different things that can make you feel very uncomfortable or very tearful. You might need to step away and I'm just here to say that that's okay.”

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Transcript

1:18

Welcome back to the second ever third episode of an honored guest on Feeding Our Young. love it. Kenna, thank you so much for sharing what's turning out to be your entire day with us. And your entire life. It's your entire day, your entire life. We're good. There we go. No, I've been looking forward to this one for quite a while and I'm so glad that we are together here today on this wonderful, if not warm, afternoon. Let's get into the practicality of everything. So you are in nursing school and as established in the very first episode, you have one semester remaining. So, wow, wow, wow, wow. As you established in the second episode, man, you studied for eight years. I jokingly called my two -year degree a four -year, two -year degree, because I had to do the prereqs and all the things. you have what will be, I mean, eight years, does that include just, I mean, so it's gonna be like a 10 year? from my 30s. That's not from my teens. Yeah. yeah. So it'll be your 10 year for your degree or is it will it be your 12 year for you to be 10 year right? Decade long for your degree. my goodness. So what is it like being given your background given your personality given the fact that you are maybe not as young as some of the other people who are in your cohort. What is it like in nursing school for Kenna It has been... storytelling. There's that word again. Yeah, you're going to find out. found out. how to advocate for myself, how to advocate for others, what boundaries are in academia, the immense pressure and intensity of nursing school that is unlike anything else. your friends are, who your family are, how to be supported, how to support others. Like it's just very telling of so many things and relationships and places in your life and places that you want to go and and what speaks to your soul. It's just insane. It really is insane and I can only say that because of my age and my experience. This is one of the hardest things I've had to work for. Given everything else, this is... I should say something that, you know, people half my age are going into this with not a lot of experience. And I'm like, I don't know how you're doing this. Like, I am... I am always in awe of my classmates. Whether they know it or not, I am... I am blown away by them Nursing school is very special. Nursing students are very special. And if they weren't and if it wasn't, this wouldn't exist. There's no way. This isn't about me. This isn't the Eric Miller show. This is the Feeding Our Young podcast, which is all about nursing students. So awesome. So with you in nursing school. Mm -hmm I mean, everybody's just heard that. You've just taken somebody's life story and you've heard Kenna say that this is one of the most trying, challenging things to achieve in a lifetime. You talk about setting boundaries. You talk about, you mentioned many things. That's the first thing that my ears perked up on though. What do you mean about setting boundaries in academia? What does that look like? So I'll tell you also, this probably won't surprise you, but because of all of the classes I've taken, I'm also a double major in psychology. And. It's interesting to me because when I was at Whitworth, I took a class that was psychology and healthcare that is not a part of the nursing track, that nursing students are not required, not just not required, you're not allowed to take it. You have to petition the department to take it. And it explains... Like you go through your purpose and your value and self care and how to care for others and how to change your perspective and what people are going through. And it's only offered to like community health students. And I think people that are going into med school maybe something like that. And it just blew my mind that this incredible class that's an upper division class. So it's not Like, you have to take so many classes to be able to take this class. It's not offered for nursing students. What the hell? Which by the way, I can't tell you how useful a major in psychology is or a degree in psychology is. No kidding and just the topics you're describing like I'm like I don't What? Yeah, I mean, everything down to like, they teach you about nutrition in that class. And like, what sleep deprivation does to you. I mean, it teaches you the basics. Like, this is the class that you should be having in nursing school. Huh, intriguing. And so for boundaries, that's a part of it, how you take care of yourself, what you're willing to put yourself through. what you support in other people and their behaviors too. What I really think nursing school is there to prepare you for the bureaucracy of working in healthcare and learning what your boundaries are in your interprofessional relationships and with administration and with yourself. mean, there's so much that happens and you can. wave your hands in the air or you can complain and never actually do anything about it. You can give into it and think, well, this is what I'm supposed to do. So I'm not going to say anything because this is what everybody else is doing. And, you know, I'm losing it, but I'm just going to allow it. You know, I just, I think from my experiences, I finally got into a safe place in my life. Like I graduated from I didn't graduate. I've graduated from intensive therapy to maintenance therapy at the same time as getting into nursing school. And so it's like it's that time for me to feel safe enough and try out a lot of the things I've been working on. So it's you have to you have to keep boundaries. Yeah. just I find it a very fascinating. I'd love that you had said that because that has not been with 40 plus people I've had the honor of sitting with so far. That's not something we've really touched on. And people hear that. Yeah. And people hear that. mean, and phrased in that manner, too. But the you you think of boundaries in health care and there's that whole professional personal, you know, that boundary. But that's the one that gets talked about the most as it should be talked about. mean, Yeah, but this, this, this, just this whole, man, like I wanna find out more about this class. Like I'm like. I read this thing recently that said boundaries are invitations. It's not rejection, it's invitation. It's an invitation. Somebody's inviting you into their life and asking you to learn about them in a healthy, respectful way. love that. I love that. my goodness. Right? No, all of my psych classes, death and dying, you know, like from the very beginning and how to take care of yourself. You know, like professional, professional development in psychology, research in psychology, like all of that prepared me for nursing school. Wow, that's, you've definitely got a 10 year, four year degree. I love the fact that you're doing the double major too. I love it, I love it. So having had such experience in the educational realm, in so many classes and everything else, what advice would you have for your cohort, for your peers, for other nursing students who are listening, who have not had that background, who have not been able to see that that much Hmm. academia side of things. I would share that you cannot compare your insides to other people's outsides. You, the things that you're going through, the things that you've experienced in your life, whatever reason that you're there, the feelings and thoughts that go through your mind as you're going through school, the insecurity, the imposter syndrome, the anger, the pride, the joy, the pressure, like, I mean, everything that you're going through, if you look around the room, you're never gonna see the same things. because this thing that we've talked about, vulnerability, is terrifying and a lot of students aren't in a safe place. They don't realize what they're going through yet or they're not in a safe place to be able to stand up for themselves or for other people and then they're going into healthcare. Mm. And so by comparing themselves and how they're feeling to their classmates or to faculty or to their friends in different schools. You are living in a different reality. The truth is, is that we are all connected. We feel so much of the same thing. If you compare, so if you are comparing your insides to other people's outsides, I implore you to find a safe space. If it's a therapist, if it's a classmate, if it's faculty, if it's a friend, if it's a meeting somewhere, if like whatever it is, a place where you can be completely honest and accepted for how you're feeling in the moment, because you you you'll laminate your notes so the tears can roll off, right? People don't understand that. If you find a safe place, that's why like a lot of people that are in medical, like in their families and their communities, they stay together because they understand each other. And, but you don't have to be from the same place to have somebody love you and accept you and be there for you and hear you because you have to talk. You have to share your experience. What you're going through is like nothing else. And there are a lot of walking wounded people in healthcare. There's a lot of people that have experienced trauma of some kind or loss or their own medical conditions where they have confused fixing and helping as the same thing. They haven't had the opportunity to work on themselves. So they're going to work on everybody else. And that could be very, very dangerous for themselves or You know what I mean? Like it's that's where alcoholism and addiction and like self -harm, like harming others, that lateral violence, you know, it all, it's all connected. It's so connected. And I, I don't, it's like, I want to protect so many people, but I can't. And so I have a voice. and as annoying as it can be in class that I'm the only one waving my hand or sharing the thing or crying all the time. It's not for me, I'm doing it for them to show them like you have one safe person. you can talk about those things, you can process them. mean, SIM is super triggering for a lot of different reasons. And do you think people feel safe enough to talk about it in the debrief? No. And that's what we're supposed to be teaching nursing students. We're supposed to be teaching them how to make mistakes, how to be there for each other, how to have compassion and empathy, how to have healthy boundaries in every way. Like... so that they can be prepared to go into this field of pain and suffering and abuse. Like we're the number one abused service industry. like, why are we not teaching how to take care of ourselves and each other and how to be a team? You don't have to like each other. You don't have to like love each other, but kindness and respect and having each other's back like I... That's sometimes the only thing you have. You have to know that even if there's a person next to you that you can't stand, that you know that they're going to have your back in a situation. You're going to be able to help them and they know that. That's a big deal. That's a huge deal. And so many students are just, I mean, especially since COVID. I mean, I'm in a class of people. that have graduated their last year or two in high school was during COVID. And then going into college, which was still a lot online. And so they're carrying their own life story with them, not having a safe place. And this is a two -year institution, not a four -year institution, that you are shoved into saving people's lives from day one. You know what I mean? Like, and we're not even talking about how to talk to each other or say how we're. Or if you say how you're feeling, for instance, I've had experiences where I've shared and I, there's jeering, there's laughing, there's snickering, there's people talking about it, that I'm just ridiculous or this or that. And it's like, I've been where you've been, trust me. You are going to a field where that is not going to serve you. Yeah. And the answer why, why do people not say that? Why do people not share that? Is that vulnerability we just talked about? You're opening yourself up. whether that's the simple, have one question that I want to ask about what you're teaching, but I'm probably the only moron who doesn't know what that is. So I'm not going to ask it because then everybody else will see me. for what I really am and that's someone who doesn't know. don't know, like I'm wrong. But realistically, what that is teaching you is that when you're in a hospital or you're in a clinic or you're out on a call, that you can call and ask somebody, that you can turn to somebody and say, hey, what about this policy or procedure? I don't really know much about this med. I really need to talk to pharmacy about it. Or talking to your Patience I Mean that's my number one is I need to be able To show them that I am showing up for them. I Am going to be vulnerable. I'm gonna tell you the truth. I am going to be a safe place for you For this however long this is that we're together That's what that's supposed to be teaching and if we can't encourage that or if we have like blowback from that from faculty or students or whoever like It's just, it hurts. It hurts the world. It hurts. It hurts healthcare. Like nursing school is such a reflection of the healthcare system in every way. And it's like, we're the nurses right now as students. And it's like, if you don't collectively get together and have this foundation, Like the people at the top are not... They have to do a whole different thing and they're playing a whole different game. I'm not saying what they're doing is wrong. I honestly want to believe that everyone is doing the best that they can. But if this is a reflection of health care, then... Do yourself a favor and put yourself out there and find that safe spot. Find your community. Find it, you know? Yeah, yeah, this is the episode. If I needed one episode out of the, as best as I've estimated to this point, I have approximately 54 episodes worth of content. Meaning double episodes, triple episodes, whatever, all the things. Over 40 honored guests, 50 some odd episodes. They're not released, they will be released, but right now they're not. In 50 plus episodes right now, if I had one episode that I just had to put out there, as the whole reason why this podcast exists. This one's it right here. This one's it precisely because of everything you just said. And I had another thought while you were talking about that, because we've talked about, and it's hammered home and home again with people that I've talked about. If you nursing student or nurse don't know the answer to a question, don't know what you're doing about whatever, get over your ego, get over yourself and ask up here. Ask the pharmacy, ask whatever, ask you to get the resource that you need. That's not Dr. Google, by the way. Yes. Yes. But ask those questions, and we've always hammered that home. I just visualized it on the flip side. Listener, I don't care what your role is. Listener, close your eyes for a second. Imagine for a minute, you're the patient in the bed. Doesn't matter why you're there. Maybe you're having a baby. Maybe you have brain cancer. Maybe you're having surgery. Maybe you broke an arm. Fill in the blank. You're in the bed. And you've got a nurse who's caring for you, who wants to do the best for you, who's going to do everything they can for you. Do you want that nurse in a moment of indecision or unknow... like lack of knowledge, do want them to make it up as they go along? Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. there's evidence -based practice and things and peers and resources they can rely on. I don't want that! And so if they... No! We don't want that and maybe you've experienced it. I don't know, but we don't. We don't want that. Which is part of the reason why this exists. please be the person on the other side of that relationship that asks the question so that your patient, at the very least, gets the best care and at the very worst is not harmed. And if you're in clinical and you are seeing something from a nurse, from a physician, from, you know, occupational therapy, I don't care who it is, that is your red flag is going up, nursing, you need to listen to your intuition. Call your clinical instructor. Text them. Say the thing. It's okay. Like I promise you, like I've had to do it. And I'm unwilling, I am unwilling to risk my patients, wellbeing, life, care, soul, because I am afraid to say something that. Like, is life changing? Yeah. Yeah. You really want to help people? That's how. You have to help yourself. And oddly enough, when you do that, it builds the confidence to do it again. And the flip side of that is, of course, don't become the person that's just eagerly looking for all of those things. Don't become that nitpicker. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. You go and you say, all make mistakes. You know, we like all of these things we go through. I don't feel comfortable with that. Maybe you do. And that's that's up to you. Like in those moments, you still lead with love and not shame. Yup. And respect. And respect. That love and that respect. Do it in a respectful manner and you will go places and you will save, literally save lives. That's how another way you save lives. my goodness. so. As. Like I've told Sue, like, because we've talked about grades, because we still get, I still get into this weird human mindset of the grades we have been taught and still in school. I don't care what they say. You are taught that your grade is a reflection of how good of a nurse you're going to be. And it's BS. Like, I really think when people are like, don't worry because You still have a super high standard that you have to meet continually. You have testing that if you don't pass, you don't keep going. You only have so many tries. You get this percentage and that's it. And it's still above average. You have to be in this place. And so I have told Sue, I've had to reconcile getting less than an A, which is ridiculous to me growing up. Like it just means something different in nursing school. And for me, B is for balance. B is for balance. B means you're happy. B is for boundaries. Like you're taking care of yourself. You're being responsible with your education and your skills that you're taking. You're still taking care of your patients. You know, you're still learning. Mm -hmm. But like, you're learning how to, like, you have to navigate the world. And so I would, if I'm closing my eyes and pretending to be a patient, I'm not asking them, hey, did you get an A in this class? I'm asking them, hey, do you feel comfortable standing up to my doctor and saying that this isn't right? That's That's it. That's nursing in a nutshell. That's nursing education in a nutshell. That is what we have preached all along in here and so finely encapsulated. Thank you, Kenna. Please. Please. this is a big part of my story too, is you know, now you've had a glimpse into my life and my upbringing. I hit the end of my trauma therapy in my year at Whitworth and I told my therapist, I think there's something greater than trauma therapy that's happening here. And I had to advocate myself. I waited for appointments. I got a neuropsych exam. And I have combined ADHD. I have autism. I have severe social anxiety. I have severe depression. I have generalized anxiety disorder. Like, I have all of these things that I have never had support, compassion, or understanding for. That now, as a Almost 40 year old woman, I don't have a family that's advocating for me. I don't have the resources that can support me. You know, I'm having to advocate for this. And I have no idea what to do. No idea where to start. Like, and I'm now I have fought over and over and over again. I've taken these classes over and over and over again to get to this place. and nursing school is the place where you don't get that many chances. And if you don't have that stuff set up and if you don't do it yourself, nobody's doing it for you, you're not going to make it. And it's been very, very challenging, very challenging. Not to mention, I lost my hearing during COVID as an adult and I couldn't afford hearing aids. And my semester, was undiagnosed, unmedicated. I could not hear anything. I was terrified that I had worked so hard in this life for this thing. for me to fail myself because I couldn't be vulnerable and say, I need help, this is not enough, you need to do more for vulnerable populations, this is a part of social justice. know, like, you need to show up too. Those are my boundaries. I've worked really hard. I have graciousness in my heart. have respect. I have these things. You do have to do the same for me. Yeah. So that's like another big lesson that I've had in school is I've now navigated and now I have all the resources for my last semester. Wow. It only took that long. It only took that long. mean, because I think the general population of nursing students is younger. And, you know, if I'm looking at if I was in that position, then I wouldn't know how to advocate for myself. I wouldn't know that I needed testing. I wouldn't know how who my support group is like, and all of it's available to us. All of it is available to us. But because We don't know how to ask and we don't create this environment. We are creating a culture of fear. and shame and I will fight tooth and nail. because love is always the answer. always the answer. Kenna Kenna? Bringing it, just bringing it. just, all right. Yeah, yeah, and that's why. That's why. All of this is the why. This is the, I just, there's so much to, like, and what I love about this is I get to learn. I get to learn alongside anybody listening. Because strangely enough, I still don't have all the answers. I keep working on that. Yeah, I keep working on it and yet somehow I don't think that's an achievable goal by the time I die, even if I live to be 200. And so strangely enough, we are all learning from each other in this whole grand thing called life, in this whole grand thing called nursing school. And I can't thank you enough for Just so eloquently putting everything that, I mean, it is, it's the heart of why I wanted to start this, it's the heart I have for nursing students, and irregardless of age, nevermind, you you bring about, know, you're younger and that sort of, it doesn't matter what your age are, what your age is in this whole thing, it's the fact that you are, you know what mean, we are trying to combat a culture that does not, not only does it not set you up for, the best of successes. But it absolutely can undermine a career before it starts. Again, going back to the theme of the first two episodes, remember, you're ghosts. We are trying to... make sure that there are nurses who are not cut down before a they're born as a nurse or cut down in their prime because they're so disillusioned with the health care system other nurses fill in the blank patients abuse blah whatever there's a long litany of things that can fill that that role and so i enough about me and i'm flapping my guns this is a soap box that like it's so true. It's so true. This is exactly like, your intention was to create this safe space. And like now there's gonna be accessibility for nursing students to have this, who can listen to this and hear like all these experiences and not feel alone and feel courageous and. take that step and you know, like you're doing the work. Like you're doing it. Keep flapping those gums. You might be the first person in my life to ever say that. Kenna. All right. So before we wrap up the third episode, you know, normally it's like, you know, that's the one word. And you can expand more on that word that you chose because instead of three, you chose one. And it was beautiful. I think I expanded on it though. I'm... Yeah. Okay. normally I would also say, what's the one thing you would have someone walk away with? But you had so many things. instead of saying, what's the one thing? Here's how we'll end this. What are the things that you have not, either naturally or whatever, over the course of this episode, been able to share that you want to share, that you want to impart to? nursing students, nursing instructors, nurses, and for the rest of us who are just along for the ride and learning life lessons along the way. This is a very small ask, of course. But what are those things that you want to share in your closing moments that we have not had the opportunity to bring up? I think a harsh reality is that this is not for everyone. And I really ask that everyone check their motives as to why you're doing what you're doing, what you're working so hard for. what moves you and connects you. If your motivation is different from the people around you, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. There is a place for everyone in nursing. But again, don't compare your insides to other people's outsides. If your path is different, if you don't want to do patient care, if you're not able to do patient care, Like check your motives, know that that's not for you and accept and love that about yourself and find your niche. Like find the thing that works for you. Because this isn't for everyone. Hospital nursing is not for everyone. Hospice is not for everyone. Community health is not for everyone. Psych is not for everyone. Like research is not for everyone. know, sitting behind a desk is not for everyone. It's... There is a place for you and a community for you that loves and accepts you. If you check your motives and you accept this about yourself and you create this place for yourself, like you will thrive and you will flourish. Done. nothing to add I am so grateful for this space that you've created. It has been incredible to share this and scary and healing. And I just, I have so much love for you and for all of these listeners. Yeah. You and me both. You and me both. You got people out there for you everybody. And you don't always do. So. Kenna, have a lovely rest of your day? This isn't something that some episodes, and that's no offense to anyone, there's some episodes we can walk away and everybody's had a good laugh and you go on right into the next thing. This one, you gotta walk away and I'm. Anybody who's heard all three episodes, whether you binged it or got it in pieces, you'll understand why. I gotta walk away from this one and do a little more reflecting. So I'm always telling people, reflection, not just in nursing school, but in life is amazing. It's an absolute gift and a skill. And man, I'm gonna go do some of that myself. So thank you. Sounds good. You're welcome.