71 - Jennifer Evans Pt 2: Stop Shoulding on Yourself

Continue with nurse educator, bedside nurse, and Spokane, Washington native Honored Guest “Jen” Evans as she discusses cellphone bias, being the new girl, “snapdragon,” adapting to the role of full-time educator, character assassinations, committing med errors, connections in nursing school, impactful learning (and teaching), stopping “shouldering” on yourself, and more!

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Transcript

0:01

All right, welcome back to part two of Jen Niffer, not Jenny, Lecturer Evans, whatever you want to call her today. I'm going to call her Jen in the second episode, kicking myself the entire time that I had the obvious right in front of me. it was like, I feel like it falls under like the dad joke thing. It's kind of like that thing. I feel like I've let myself down, talk about being a perfectionist. So I will never make that mistake again. Also, I want to thank you. Jen for allowing me to sit here with you and to talk with you about these things, especially since I'm only a recent convert to the iPhone. You you talked about that in the first episode. I had to share the story because... Eric, I would not have been able to do it had you still had it Android, okay? That's a hard line for me, but we're okay now. bubble guy. And to make it clear, here at Feeding Our Young, we accept all manners of smartphone users, whether you're Android or Apple, because I'm bilingual in that way and very fluent in both. But it really was hilarious. There's four of us kind of in the OB department that work closely together. And you've already heard from Tara. And now you've heard from Jen. and you will eventually hear from Nicole if that gal can ever get not busy enough to get in studio, but that's really how it is for all of us. so, but I'll never forget the four of us are sitting there and the three of them have iPhones. And mind you, when I first became, so I've only had a cell phone really for two years, give or take two and a half, when I first became an educator because I needed it to contact my students. And I just went with. back. You didn't have a cell phone before you became an educator? What did you have, landline? What? Yes, and in fact we only gave up our landline within the last year after having it for 24 years. But, and I get students that are like, but Eric, like how did your wife like get a hold of you? And I'm like, well, she knew that, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, like I'll get home or she'd call me at home or leave a message or whatever. Like straight up old, cantankerous old man, right? And so people... It just still blows their minds away. But I can't tell you how often in public where someone's like, well, okay, if you just want to, you know, do you want to download the app? And I'm like, well, I don't have a cell phone. And the looks I would get, like I was beamed down from another planet. There's the callback. but more often than not, after the initial shock wore off, people would be like, you know, I'm actually kind of envious. And because it is, it's an electronic leash. I'm not going to get on my soapbox. That's not why we're here. But the whole point of it is. is that there's the four of us, I'll never forget, sitting at that table, and the three of them have iPhones, and I've got my Android, and they're like, Eric, you're an Android user, and I'm like, what? What is this a thing? And this is where I found out that there's an actual culture behind this whole thing, and it's just like, I can't even believe it. And so my response was, one of these things is not like the others, and it's not because I was the only male nurse. So, anyway. It's good to be ostracized on account of my cell phone not on my gender moving along because this episode is not about me Jennifer let's just dive right in after dive right you can't dive right in after me blabbering for three minutes about cell phones But a couple of nice little intro lob questions about yourself that we didn't get to learn Have you traveled anywhere outside the country if so where and where is your favorite destination? Yes, I want to go to Europe. I say with my husband all the time, we are taking a big trip when all the kids are graduated and that next stage of life. I have been to London and Wales, which was amazing. They are the happiest people. London, maybe not the happiest people. They walk really fast, which I was five months pregnant at the time with my third kiddo. likes to tout that he's also been to London. But that was great. Went over to... go ahead. there seeing the sights, right? He really got a good... Yeah. And I'm like, yes, all right. Yes, you have. And then, so that was like a trip to go see my sister and her husband. My husband and I went on that, it was great. Been to Cancun a couple times. My husband and I actually just booked a trip back to Cancun for January between semesters. That was a whole thing like getting used to I can't take vacation in you know February. I'm just getting going with my semester so we're so excited and we're staying at this all-inclusive and I am NOT an adventurer on vacation okay. Yeah, yeah. I am a relaxer. And my husband is a little bit more of an adventurer, but life is so crazy right now, I think we're both just looking forward to like, nothing. So, yes, Cancun, London, Canada, but. Everybody just says that. We live in Washington. Everybody's like, we've all been to Canada. It's right up there. Yeah, it's not far. in the backyard, front yard, whatever. Yeah, yeah. We're not going to ask them whether we're in their backyard or they're in ours. We'll just leave that where that is. No, and I'm actually kind of surprised that with those few weeks off in between fall and spring semesters that you're not going to just go get a doctorate degree or something. So kudos to you. Yeah. Yeah. never. Don't tell Chris Sloan. Never. No, that'll be our little secret. that won't make the episode at all. And also, I mean, I do recall someone saying they would never get a master's degree. So we're gonna leave that one right there. So here's the other side. So flip side, behind the curtain of the whole podcast. As you already know, I give these prep sheets to people, give them ideas of things to talk about. And I always, when I'm prepping someone before we record, say, well, don't treat it like a script. It's there for reference. Remember the things that you wanted to talk about. but don't read it out loud because you know don't read it verbatim because then that seems stilted and not natural and all things but do us a favor Jen and that same question what was your first sentence response because i love how you phrased that Okay, I said, my favorite destination is anywhere with a pool and no responsibility. Done! Put it on a shirt. There's Jen's t -shirt that we're done. I really feel like we gotta do like t -shirts based on honored guests. This is not the first time this theme has come up, so maybe that's something down the road. So, continue with this theme. We'll ask one more easy, lobbed up, more about you question. And please read verbatim the first sentence you said. And it is the next question that follows. What are the hobbies, interests you enjoy when every waking moment isn't consumed by nursing school? I said I don't understand the question. Like what? What are you even talking about, Eric? saying? Is this a different language? Well, especially like from being a nursing student. It's fairly all -encompassing. That is mostly your life during the times when you're in the semester. And as a new educator, feel like teaching is a gifting of mine. Not again, not perfect, but it comes naturally to me to explain things to people and to encourage people to learn. But I was not prepared for what it is to step into a full -time educator role. I'm the new girl. It's horrible being the new girl. It's really hard, you guys. I was like, I'm never gonna leave my unit, right? Like I'm gonna stay here forever. I'm gonna retire from here. And because I don't wanna be the new girl anywhere and then I'm the new girl here. So yeah, everything went out the window for a bit, but I did. I've read some novels this book or this summer, not this book. I've read some books. some novels, some teaching books, which I so miss because I love books. Yeah, any recommendations off the cuff for anyone. yes, something about the life of an octopus. Snapdragon. I'm trying not to swear so much and my sister says Snapdragon, so a little shout out to my sister there. Yeah, filter that out. can't even believe it. found when trying to replace curse words, when you need something, you're like trying to be like, you need enough syllables, right? I have a sweet friend who just doesn't swear ever and she says fetch and so sometimes I'm like, okay, I gotta remember, I gotta be like Beth, say fetch, yes, that's good. that's in my brain somewhere rattling around in there. I'm picturing Will Ferrell doing that in a movie or two where he's just, I want to say Anchorman, but maybe not. I mean, that's a rated R movie to begin with, but I feel like there's somewhere where he's, or maybe it's just Elf. I don't know, where he's just swearing using, you know, non -swear words, but anyway, we digress. Yeah. So any off the cuff recommendations, yeah. yes, it's called Remarkably Bright Creatures. It's told in the perspective of a few different people or beings, one of which is an octopus. which I was like, mm -mm, that's weird, I don't know. Great reviews, I always look at how many stars something is. And one of the reviews was like, I love this narrator and I will read, or listen to rather, because I'm an audiobook geek, listen to anything that they narrate. And so was like, I'll give it a try. Holy cow, it was so good. Yep, must read. Yep, absolutely. or working my other two jobs, I will throw that in there somewhere. Eric, audiobooks on your marathon little run, not little huge runs. There you go, multitasking. Well, and that I love. my gosh. And that's my wife and I have this discussion because I think as of today, this recording, she still hasn't listened to a single episode of the podcast. My wife is the most supportive person on the whole planet. And she's like, but babe, it's not it's a I personally think she just hears enough of me. But B, and she doesn't say that. But B, I think what where it is for she's like. Babe, don't like talk. I don't like talk radio. I don't like this, know, anything that's talking, talking, talking. So for her, and for me, when I'm running, I would listen to, do I even go there? One time I nerded out, I violated a thousand laws and recorded in MP3 format one of my top five movies of all time, What About Bob? Have you seen... Yeah, so there we are. What about Bob? baby steps, baby steps to the elevator. Anyway, it's Bill Murray at his comedic best. I've talked about it maybe once or twice before. Don't want to bore anybody with that. Against a very straight -faced Richard Dreyfus. just, it's... check it out. What about Bob? Anyway, I recorded it on MP3 and then took that movie, put it on my MP3 player, and, you know, prior to Spotify and whatnot, and I listened to that for whole run. And you know, because it takes me, you know, two hours to run a half marathon. And so it was was perfect. And when you can mentally, like half of running is physical, but the other half is the mental part. And when you can check out, would even go so far as to listen to if I knew that movie was, say, an hour and a half, I would listen to music for the first half hour and then dial into the movie, because then that covers me for the rest of that run. The most difficult portion of that run near the end. And I can just check into the fantasy world that is What About Bob? and the most amazing comedic thing ever? And then that kind of tunes the brain receptors out to everywhere else in my body that's screaming, need to be done. So again, so I'm going to listen to that book. You've heard it here first. I'm definitely going to listen to that. It's going to be a while before I run again doing back to backers, not doing that again. So was there anything else you wanted to share as far as hobbies, interests, et cetera? No, I love to ski. always, I grew up skiing and we, my husband grew up snowboarding. We got back into it, my gosh, I don't know how long ago. seven years ago with our kids, which good night, that's an expensive hobby. We did not go once last year. We're season pass people. always get a season pass. We always like go enough times to make it worth it. And we did not go once next year. And then I was angry about it and I was like, I'm not going at all. I'm fine. I'm not doing it. But we're like, we figured out ways to work around this new schedule in this role that I have now. And so I'm so excited. We've got some Wednesdays booked out where we're gonna just hit the slopes and I love, I love skiing so much. It's so much fun. That's awesome. That is awesome. See, skiing to you is running to me. There it is. Except it's opposite, because I don't run in the winter unless it's a mild winter. I'm a fair weathered runner, and I don't mind proclaiming it. So let's get into some more serious things here. The meat of the matter, why people are coming to this. They don't need us to prattle on about our lives. But it's equally important, because I feel like you get to know a little bit about our honored guest. And it's just so much fun. So. Let's just go with the next easiest question, which is, do you care to share about any challenges you've had in life? See, easy, no big deal. Yeah, just that. You know, this question was another one that I kind of really had to think about. And I was having a really crap day when I was looking through this and it was, I think I texted you, was like, thank you so much for this perspective shift, because I got way down in all the minutiae, right? The stuff that you think is really big and important in the big picture, none of that stuff is actually what's important. And so when talking about challenges. The biggest challenges are the loss of life and relationships. I've lost both of my grandparents in the past three years. Lost, you know, patients. Lost, you know, friendships that are, you you're in a different place in your life. And it's hard. Right now, raising adultish children is hard. navigating how do I how do I you know I'm it's not it's not wiping noses and bottoms anymore right it's helping somebody navigate their own life in a way that's not stepping on toes or telling them what to do or you know it's it's just this I feel like it's not in the parenting books or I'm not reading the right books or something No. That whole part of the manual is missing. Just like the whole part that came before it. It's just missing. Yeah. One of the biggest challenges, well, not biggest, but one of the most recent challenges was actually in adapting to this role of full -time educator. It was so like drinking out of a fire hose that a year ago, you know, this time last year. And I don't think I knew enough. I kind of had some rose colored glasses on. I don't know that I knew enough to anticipate how hard it would be. But I felt this like angsty feeling creeping back up on me as I'm getting ready for this semester. And I'm like, Jen, you've done this, right? Like you're teaching the same classes. Most of these students I will be teaching again, which I'm so excited that I get repeat students. Like so excited. And I couldn't really identify what that angst was. And I think that it came from how hard last semester, or my first semester, semester was this time last year, which I navigated and survived and all of that. But then, know, Eric, what you and I had kind of touched on, I think off microphone, not off camera, off microphone was I was kind of rocked by some evaluations that I got at the end of spring semester. I think it was really one in particular. that just, you and me and Tara and Nicole were sitting down to dinner and this is why I love being real with people and community is I had been struggling with things that a student had said about me that was not reflective in how I teach. That's the whole point of the course evaluation, right? It's like, what do they do to help you learn? What do they do that didn't help you learn? You know, those kinds of questions. And I'm sitting here quietly struggling with like heartbreak and then was brave enough to share it. And then I have another coworker who also was like flayed open in an evaluation and it was so sweet to be just know that I'm not alone in that, you know, that like somebody else is facing the struggle I am. And I think I I had this sense of dread about what if I get another evaluation like that? And most of my evaluations were good and most of my shortcomings I've already addressed with my students. Like we've talked about it. I asked for feedback all throughout the course but this was this felt more like a personal attack. even after coaching, like you guys, an evaluation is not character assassination, right? It's how can I help you learn better? That's what we're looking for. Were objectives not clear? You know, I tried an idea of this concept map with my students and they were like, my God, that was so confusing. Like I could see maybe it would be good, but it really threw me for a loop. And, and you're right. That's the feedback I'm so hungry for because I don't want to keep doing something that's not helpful. But I guess, know, in this podcast, the idea of feeding our young and building them up and training and teaching them in the way that, you know, that's like a parenting thing too, that they would go is in this day and age, and I don't even think it's about age, but it's the world we live in now, people can hide behind their keyboard. you know, this keyboard warrior sort of designation where you have the boldness to say something that you would never say to somebody's face. And so I guess as an instructor, having been on the flip side of that, that was hard. That was really, like for a second, I was like, I'm done, I'm out. I'm not going back. Yeah, yeah. Erasable pen. Feign death, I don't know. But no, I came to my senses. But I would encourage students to remember that I am just a human being, right? I don't have all the answers. I wish, wouldn't that be lovely? I don't always say the right thing in the perfect way. I make mistakes. But... could you, I need to write that down. What'd you say again? I make mistakes. Capital Yes. But you know, to... Going back, I think, what we said, I guess it'd be in the first episode of that idea of grace. nobody knows what another person is going through if they don't share it. And so always have that. And this is a learning thing. mean, so I'm 44 and I'm really starting to come into my own on this of giving people the benefit of the doubt, right? There's something in the lab here at Gone and I always muck it up when I try to say it, it's a whole thing, but it's something about assuming positive intent. If a student emails me and they're like, coming across as really frustrated and this isn't, how could this be? I try to assume positive intent. They're having a hard day. They're navigating the world just like I am. Let's give it a second and how can I respond in a way that validates their frustration but also guides them to a solution and not just, you know, griping. Not that I get a lot of those emails. Speaking of email, our friend Nicole said yesterday she has a 24 -hour rule of, know, when you feel like you're gonna keyboard warrior it, you're saying what you want to say. Don't hit send. Wait for 24 hours. I took her advice and it's really good advice so I want to give her credit for that but I just just like this morning, sent an email that I had drafted yesterday. And I was like, let me reread it with, you know, less emotion and fresh eyes. not that there's always time necessarily for that, but we are all just humans. Yeah. And I love that. Thank you for being vulnerable with that too. And in a way that doesn't come across, at least to me, and I imagine everybody else, but it doesn't sound like you're being defensive. You know, it's not like, well, this person said that and this is why I'm not that. And you know what I mean? Cause we get caught up in that too. And I think that's part of it. It's the reactionary versus the response. Are you going to be, are you going to react or are you going to respond? And it's very difficult, even from a male perspective. And we've already established my lack of testosterone on this podcast. But it's very difficult from a male perspective, female perspective, it doesn't matter who you are, to unplug from those emotions in the moment. And how many times have people said, you know, this horrible thing happened in the heat of the moment. You know, somebody does something that maybe is out of character for them or something like that. The other thing that while you're talking, my brain kind of, it was kind of an interesting flip, you know. Go back, anyone who's listening to this, if you haven't listened to episodes 11 and 12, which are actually releasing this Wednesday, which would be tomorrow actually, Sue Perkins, she's a recently retired nurse educator in the community, absolutely amazing. And she talks about this very thing about just wanting to go start, she goes, one time I just, I picked up my stuff, I wrote this thing out and I stomped my way down the hall to go talk to the, he sent me this email and I was not happy and I was gonna let him. what for and students are in the hall and she goes I'm not like that and anyone who knows her knows she's not. But she says I'm not like that and these students watch me go storming out of my office down the hall. She says she turned she stopped for a minute before going all the way to the office and she's like okay Sue and she I'm not doing that justice but she's just like she's okay I need to know this isn't the this is not the time to be doing this turns around walks back in a natural down the hall. waves to the students, hi guys, goes back to her office and closes the door. And it's just that thought of, you know, even if you're this close to, you know, don't want to, but all of this, all of this feeds into this idea. I just had this flip thought where it's like, we're talking about feeding our young. We don't want tenured nurses to eat you up. We don't want tenure. We want to change the culture of nursing students careers ending before they have a chance to start or right after they've started. And, but it all takes mutual respect. And that's what Sue had mentioned in the thing is communicating with respect, with a professional air to it. And if you flip it around, don't eat your old. Sorry, Jen. you did say you're 44. Which is weird because I thought you were in your early thirties like me, but whatever. It's a 44 is fine. I'll have to know what that feels like. but, The point is, don't eat your old. You know what I mean? There needs to be that mutual give and take. We're doing our darndest for you. And I hope, if nothing else, up to this point, anyone who's heard her say this, you've got to know the person that is Jen. And you've got to know that, man, she is passionate about taking care of nurses. And her peers, our peers, people who are doing this and who genuinely care about their students, man, we're trying our best. We are trying our best and by golly, let me know what I can do better for you next time. I always ask my students that in evals, because like you said, I want to do better for the next group behind you. Let me know who that is. Let me know what I can do to make that happen. So thank you for being open on that topic. With that, you you've you mentioned those specific challenges inherent to just drinking from the fire hose per se in your new job a year ago and also the loss of relationships. How do you navigate those challenges. I used to say overcome and it could be and or overcome, but how do you deal with those? How do you navigate those? How do you overcome some of them? So in this process of learning, to do things better than I've done them before, because that's the definition of insanity, right? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting this different result. Well, I do cry. I'm quite a crier. So I'm quite an emotional being. I cry, I complain, and then I'm like, I'm gonna fix it, right? I get into fix -it mode. And then somewhere along the way, I'm like, I should pray about this. And it always helps, even if nothing nothing changes. And I'm working on changing that order up a little bit because I should really be starting with the praying. I'm still on the journey, right? We never arrive, right? We're always growing and learning. And the other thing that helps me, which I almost didn't even put in here because I kind of forgot about it, is that I write. I have... the ability to put my feelings on paper or screen text, whatever. And it's something that has really helped me process some losses. I wrote about my grandma's passing. I wrote about without violating HIPAA, which is very important, about an experience with a patient who I cared for and... We emergently delivered her baby and that kiddo didn't make it. And that rocked me. Like, still gets me. And I just, I mean, I think I was up till like two or three in the morning. I had to process it. I had to get it out. And I worked the next day. So I was like, but to be able to go back and I was so blessed to care for this sweet mama again the next day. And that is something that absolutely helps me. I I teach growth and development here and we end our semester kind of wrapping up a life, right? Death and dying. None of us get out of this alive. And we were supposed to have some guest speakers and that didn't pan out. And so I said, what am I going to do for this class? Right. And I read them two of my journal entries. One is a perspective of the family member and one is a perspective of the nurse and I was not prepared for like, I know these stories, I've read them and to over and over and over again, but I, Eric, I cried so much. I didn't even bring tissues. I thought I'll be fine. This is just gonna be fine. I finally looked at a student and I was like, does anybody have tissue? I can't see the paper. I, you know. And that, my gosh, that took it out of me. I was like so zapped. I don't know if anybody on this podcast listening is a Potterhead. We love Harry Potter and my family, but it felt like when that Dementor goes after Harry Potter the first time and it zaps all of his energy, I was like, I need chocolate. But. I, as hard as that was, I had, and I don't do it for the feedback, but I had students that let me know that that was so impactful for them to have somebody that, this is real, right? And so it's okay to cry with your patient. It's okay to need to take a step back. It's okay to feel whatever you're feeling in these moments and that we're all gonna have these moments, whether you're a nurse or not. I have these moments in life yeah, thank you for that. I feel like that more than anything with everyone that I get to talk with, like if we can't take anything else but just learn, okay, I see this person has challenges too. That's crazy. Because sometimes we get lost in these heroes that you look up to, whether it's, you know what I mean, an educator for yourself or someone that's coming in to work positive every day. I try to be that guy and I make no qualms about it even at work when I'm having a bad day. Like it's, you know, it's life. Life happens. But so to be able to learn from one another, how do we deal with these challenges? How does this person deal? How does this person deal? How do you, you know, and what I haven't gotten yet is, Eric, I stuff them deep down inside and then they go away and I never have to deal with them again. life is amazing. I haven't heard that once. So I'm excited for the first time that's going to happen. That'll be an episode and half all by itself. I'll let you know. Yeah, I'll let you know. That's it. So in the meantime, I mean, thank you for being vulnerable as far as that goes. Let's talk about nursing school and let's talk about it first of all from your perspective. I don't even know if we have time to go from the other perspective, but at the very minimum, as an instructor, as a lecturer, But even as an adjunct clinical instructor prior to that, what do you love most about nursing and nursing school? that I don't know if I can answer that well without Getting to my three words intriguing. Okay, then let's do this. We're pivoting on the spot. Ladies and gentlemen, we are pivoting on the spot. So, from the perspective of a nursing student, go back, because I know, and we've talked about this, all of it, any nurse, you say nursing school, and you automatically, I was just talking to Sara actually, more extra about that. Yesterday, we were saying like, when you talk about nursing school, and you remember as a nurse, you automatically go to the good and the bad, I said the good and the bad, and she's like, yeah. but it's the bad that comes up first. Like those bad memories, those, you know, that sort of thing. So take us to BSN student Jen. What was nursing school like for you? What did you like about it? What do you, if you recall, what did you find most challenging? Open up that door for us a little bit and then we'll circle back around to you as an instructor and overlap that with your three closing words. so I've discovered that I have a horrible memory actually, and so I don't have a ton of like very strong, I remember being busy. I have multiple memories of sitting in my living room with this amazing group of fellow nursing students. We got this really, really tight group of us. I had the pleasure of, yes, what? This is Jennifer speak everyone for it was so traumatic she put it out of her mind. It was beat clear out of her soul. All right, anyway, moving forward. Yeah, yeah. No, I remember like studying. Right? Like just getting together and going over, I mean, we did not have the technology that exists today. It's not like we didn't have computers, but it's not the same. Pouring over textbooks and making flashcards and quizzing each other. And that is, there's so much of that. I remember being terrified for my first day of MedSurg Clinical. No, it wasn't my first day. That 9 -11, like the 9 -11 was my first day of MedSurg Clinical. like I watched a tower fall, I lived very close to the hospital, I drove to the hospital, I watched the other tower fall. And I was like, you guys, I had a med error on my first day of like in the hospital nursing school. And I shared this with my students. I mean, it was a stool softener that I gave at 7 a instead of 7 p I didn't kill the patient, but that is a med error. That is the wrong time. And I was absolutely like crying about this. And the nurse that was with me was so sweet. And she's like, that is not real. a meta error and I was like, yes it is, this is the wrong time. And, right. a violator. And so that is one of those things that like stands out to me that like this is really important and we have to be mindful of what our surroundings are and when you're giving medications you gotta shut that out and focus on the task at hand. I'm so thankful I did not harm my patient. He probably had a great bowel movement but that was that kind of thing. But I had this amazing clinical instructor, Jeri Goss, and I no idea what's happened to her. She is forever in my memory of putting your first Foley catheter in. I was terrified. And she knew it. And so she literally drags me into this room. And it's this sweet older gal who is a bilateral below the knee amputee with arthritic hips. I'm like, this is going to be really hard. Jerry, in her infinite wisdom, brought a second catheter. know, we do our best. doesn't always go exactly where you want it to, especially when you're nervous and new and shaky. But she was so confident for me, in me, that like, no, you can do this. Maybe you have to do it twice, but you can do this. That is one of my core memories, right, as a nursing student. I remember we had to take this, what was it, like medical ethics? And it was taught, I hated this which is a horrible thing to say. I hate it. It was just like dry and boring and everything. don't want any of my classes to be, but we would always fight so hard to get into like the satellite classroom where the teacher couldn't actually call on you because like that was the that was where to be was in the satellite classroom, not like the main auditorium kind of room. I remember that I had fun because I had found this core group of, they were my people, know? They knew what I was living through. They were going through it too. So yeah, those are my, I know it was hard. I know all I ever did was study and work. And a few key memories of like, guess the bad that Sarah was talking about, like my med error, my first foley catheter, Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm right there with you. You you remember for me, I remember the ones I always had the clinical instructors that nobody wanted. Everybody was like, you know, in every every rotation, it was always like, I hope you don't get so and so they're they're really they're they're a hard-a you know, they really do this and every single time and and every single time it ended up being a beautiful thing in some way, or form. which I was so grateful for, but it was kind of those preconceived notions and rumors and all the things. And it just was, I don't know, those are the things you remember, but thank you for sharing those. Now, let's quote unquote wrap up by combining, what do you love most about nursing and nursing school as an instructor, along with your discussion on why you chose the three words, which if you could remind everybody what the three words were, who may or may not have experienced a long gap of life between your first episode and now. My three words were connections, calling, and creativity. Isn't that weird? We've got a lot of spelling happening between you and me here. nursing math and nursing spelling. It's all good. We're fine. it. love it. could make it a three letter acronym. We really love those in nursing. So connections. This is both on a personal level and like that intellectual level. So I love to really get to know my students and with my horrible memory, I do take notes about like what's going on in their life to help me remember. But I love making those connections with them and to be able to see them as not just a student, right? But who are they as a person. And on the other side of that connections word is my, I'm so in love with when my students get the why is what I call it, right? They make this intellectual connection of, know, so I work in OB, right? Here's my example. So this patient is at risk for postpartum hemorrhage. Why? And for them to be able to pull this, like this out and be like, my gosh. Yeah, she has this and this risk factor Absolutely. Yes. That's what a hundred percent and they when they get to those connections on their own is the coolest thing in the entire world Not quite as cool as delivering a baby the second coolest thing in the entire world but Yes, I love those connections and wanting to be part of those moments. I'm gonna force my butt back to school And I also think for me that calling is that I I was also called to this not just For for selfish like I want to you know, me me me, but I absolutely Have felt called to education for a really long time I've been a preceptor on my unit for I don't even know how long And I'm like everyone that I work with knows Jen, she's always teaching. She's always got you know, well, what do you think right? Like I don't want to give you the answer I want to help you get to the answer on your own. And so this for me, just like motherhood, just like nursing, becoming an educator is absolutely a calling. And I feel like a lot of people come in, not everyone, but a lot of people come into nursing with that idea of this is something I feel passionate about. I feel like I want to help people in this way. I'm called to it. It's not just a paycheck. Yeah. And then this one I was like, do I have another C? And I was like, stress, no. But stress, doesn't start with a C. But this idea of creativity, and I'm not like an artsy fartsy person. I don't have art skills like that. But this idea about... Well, I was given advice that good enough is good enough. And I'm like, I don't think that it was a very good advice, but it's not how I'm wired. so I'm... was gonna say, maybe more geared for a perfectionist, specifically. Yeah, yeah, in an attempt to combat that sort of thing, yes. Yes. But the creativity in always looking at what I'm teaching, is there a more fun way to teach this? And it's not, sometimes learning isn't fun. That's okay. But how can I do this in a way that's gonna be impactful for my students? How do I make it something that's like click? You know, where they'll be thinking of their exam, you know, they'll be taking their exam and they'll think, I remember we did this in class. yes, like I want my courses that I teach to have that kind of creativity where we don't, my students are dreading walking in the door, you know, that it's like, okay, what are we gonna do today? Like what crazy wild idea, hair brain something as Jen thought of. And that if it doesn't work, that's okay too, you know? But that creativity of how do we make it work? How do we make it engaging? Love it. Okay. Then let's close with the standard. Here we go. I did it in the first episode. I'm doing it in this one too. We'll start with the one you prepped for and the one you didn't prep for will be last. So if you can, if there's only one takeaway that nursing student takes away from your episodes, plural, what would that be and why? it would be to be brave and ask the questions. I had a sweet student who I had said this in a class and I didn't remember saying it was she, it was what she needed to hear in this moment. And I had said, I'm reading off of a post -it in my office right now because it was so impactful. like, I can't forget this, that she said it back to me. Being brave is a choice, not a feeling. And she was like, I don't remember, you know, she didn't even share what she was going through, but she goes, I needed to hear those words so much. I didn't even realize it. And it's such a, it's hard to be brave and you can't be brave unless you are afraid, right? Unless you're nervous or scared. It doesn't exist without that. But ask the question, raise your hand in class, reach for that opportunity in clinical, send the email to the instructor, even though you don't get to control the outcome of any of these things, right? I would hate to think that there's an instructor that's gonna make you feel like an idiot for having the question. But I, I, you can't control other people. You could... and I tell my patients all the time and this is the exact same principle. I tell my patients, if you have a question about something, even if it's something we've talked about, ask me again. It's okay. And I say, if you've heard it before or you know that you've heard it before, ask the question anyway. And I said, because here's the bottom line. If you have a nurse... who is upset that you're asking them questions, that nurse needs to get another job. And I am gonna go on the line of saying, same with instructors. If we're in there for you guys and you're asking a question, now maybe you've asked the question seven or eight times, and maybe there's some frustration on the side of the other person, but that's a different scenario. Don't be afraid to ask the question, because if you have an instructor, that wants to belittle you or make you, this is the whole, this is why this exists, is so that we're not killing these careers before they even have a chance to start. Sorry, had to put my two cents worth in on your closing thing. No, I love it and I will just end with like when I read... Students do like a self -evaluation. Clinical, they do that a lot. How did you perform? What did you learn? These kinds of things. I see often this theme of I wish I would have fill in the blank. I wish I would have asked for more opportunities at clinical. I wish I would have asked that question in class when it was like right in my brain and then I forgot my question when I left and I, I don't even remember what it was. Get rid of I wish. Right? Get rid of I wish. had my personal physician once told me that I have to stop "shoulding" on myself. Like I'm like, I should walk. I should do this. I should do that. He's like, no, no, no. It's what you do and what you don't do. There's no should. Stop "shoulding" on yourself. I try to remember that. But like, like get, get rid of the, wish, right? Be, be brave. It's not a feeling. It's choice. Be brave and just ask the questions. Keep asking questions. And the words that come to my mind are missed opportunities and in a different perspective than it ever has for me before. Like you might only have that opportunity to ask that question in that moment that once. And like you said, you walk away, you do the things and then you've lost it and you forget what it was and you're kicking yourself over it. again, and what are some of the hindrances to that, right? You've got students that don't want to ask the question because they don't want to be the moron. But I promise you, you have at least one other moron in the class with you, and I'm speaking as one myself. You have multiple morons alongside of you that are equally all thinking the same thing. And so I guarantee, short of maybe the question, are babies made, there are no other questions that everybody else knows the answer to, I promise you. And probably not even that question. Some people think it's when you drink the water at work. That's what they say all the time. That's how my wife and I had so many kids. I kept drinking the water at work. Yeah, but I know the answer now, so it's from that. Anyway, sorry Jen. anything else you want to share on that note? I don't think so, but what I do share in my classes often is that I can almost guarantee that if, like you said, if you have this question, somebody else does, and it's not always a reflection of your lack of knowledge, maybe I didn't do a good job explaining it. Maybe I need you to ask the question so I can do better in my role. And I love every once in a while, not every once in a while, a lot more often than I would have thought, a student will ask this question and it is a zinger. It is like... Whoa, you just made this huge connection of two things we haven't talked about in two weeks and put them together. Or like, does this mean that? And that is what is so fun and exciting about teaching is my brain doesn't work the same as my students. Their brains don't all work the same as each other's. And so to be able to see them make those connections or ask this really, and I say sometimes, I don't, that's a great question. I have no idea. Google it, right? I say GTS. Google that stuff. GTS and let us know. Like that is a great, yes, I love that curiosity. Let's find out. preaching it, preaching it. And then there's also the aspect of the lost opportunity, like you just said, the lost opportunity for the person who's being asked. You know what I mean? Maybe there was something like you said that you teach or I teach or whoever teaches that didn't quite connect. How am I gonna know that that didn't connect with you unless you ask the question? And then when you do, that goes, man, I gotta remember that for, and you know what I mean? And we're humans, that's what makes us far superior to. any sort of AI robot, et cetera. We can build on that in these life experiences, and that's why nursing will never be replaced by robots. But that's a different topic for another time. So this whole episode has been all secretly about why nurses will never be replaced by robots. OK, so Jen, the last question. If you had only one takeaway for your peers, both there and across wherever, whoever hears this elsewhere. nursing instructors, lectures, professors, etc. These disseminators slash teachers of nursing students. If there was one takeaway for them, what would you want that to be? my takeaway for the instructors. Yes. Listen to the question. There it is. We figured it out. Okay, anyway. Yeah. No, no, no, but it just made my connection that I was like actually joking about that. That was not a joke about Jen not listening to the question. That was my brain flipping the other question, the answer you had earlier. It was like for the students, it's ask the question. So then I guess the answer for the instructors is listen to the question. Anyway. That almost made that that almost looked really bad. Your turn. No, not at all. I would say remember your why. Right? Why did you get into this? Because of the pay? I assure you that's not why. But like in life we get a little jaded, right? I've caught myself as a nurse, like, ooh, I gotta check my thinking on that because I forgot to look at my patient and I'm making assumptions, right? this, that. And the same applies to being an educator, which I have not been for long, but on those days that are hard, on those days when things are frustrating and you're tapped out and you're like, ugh, go back and remember why. Why did you want to get into this? And refreshing your perspective, I think is it's really easy to lose when you get caught up in the lesson planning and the emails and the meetings and those kinds of things, it's all for them. It's all for the students. All of it. I it. I love it. Thank you so much, Jen, slash Niffer slash not Jenny, slash Lecturer Evans, for taking literally an hour and a half, couple almost two hours of your time on this beautiful morning. my pleasure, absolutely. I cannot wait again the streak continues as soon as we hear it like as soon as I hear it want to throw it out there unedited I don't care get the message out, but it's coming. It'll come so anyway in the meantime Thank you so much, Jen I hope you have an amazing rest of your day You too, Eric. Thank you. Thank you.