78 - Aly Willard: It's So Worth It!

Join nurse, nurse educator, and Indianapolis, Indiana native Honored Guest Aly Willard as she describes her Haiti mission trip, not having a “light bulb moment,” having “300 other things” you can do as a nurse, enjoying the balance of working concurrently as bedside nurse and educator, burnout resources, taking care of yourself, and more!

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Transcript

0:01

Welcome to today's episode of the Feeding Our Young podcast brought to you from a very special location. I have made no bones about the fact that this is the most professional, unprofessional podcast out there. Professional in that we like to be nurses, we like to be professional, but unprofessional in that I call out all the weird stuff. Right now, I'm sitting in my wonderful, absolute golden heart of a son's 20, my 20 year old son's dank, musty bedroom. and it's a new feeling for me. I don't know, it may sound different. I guess that's the only reason why I'm bringing that up is that my end might sound a little different. Bear with me if that's the case. But enough about the housekeeping stuff. I am excited to introduce for you one of my personal heroes, to be perfectly honest, and I don't say that lightly. This woman is just an amazing nurse, an amazing nurse educator. And she is carving out time of her schedule to show up and to impart some freaking wisdom and maybe some funny stories along the way. No pressure! Aly Willard will - Hilarious stories. They'll just have you just dying. It's gonna be amazing. No pressure, Aly. I'm just kidding. Welcome to the studio. Good morning. How the heck are you? Good morning. I am great. I am great. Thank you. How are you? I am happy to be sitting here with you. You know, sometimes, you know, we've talked about how life is life, right? And life brings with it some great things and it brings some challenging things. I'm sitting in the middle of some challenging things on the precipice of anniversary of my own personal hell week with our son, that whole thing. So this is a nice, interesting time. And yet when I get to sit down with people like you, guess what, all of that just melts away for the next hour or so, however long we're together, and I just love that. And so thank you for being here and being willing to share your story. Let's jump right into it. Thank you. Introduce for everybody who you are, what degrees you carry, where you got those degrees, and when you graduated with them. Ooh, well now we're getting into like some sensitive information that will tell you how old I am. good. number first. I forgot to mention, so yeah, and checking account, bank account numbers, PINs, we'll get to those later, so. You're so funny. Well, I am Aly Willard and I am... I have been a nurse now for 25 years. I know I graduated in 1999 from Indiana University. all the way on the kind of East Midwest coast. And that was just my bachelor's in nursing. And then I worked as a labor and delivery nurse right out of the gate for for several, several years, kind of got burned out, which was interesting thinking about it now. And then when a very short stint as a neuro ICU nurse. Weird, right? And then I left that pretty quickly. So that was about a year. And I realized that was actually way more heart wrenching and burned me out way more and way faster than being a labor and delivery nurse. And so then I continued that. I moved over to the West side of the country in Seattle, Washington. I lived there for about 16 years, 17 years. I worked as an L &D nurse in an amazing organization and then decided before the pandemic that I was going to continue because I wanted to do something more different. wanted to expand my, I guess my... horizons and I had good advice that you can't ever go wrong with more education. And I love education. So I got my master's from Western Governors University WGU right before the pandemic. I literally graduated in November, right in 19, or 19, 20, 19. So 20 years after I got my bachelor's and then, you know, everything kind of happened. So. During the pandemic, we decided, my family, that we wanted to get out of the hustle bustle, terrible weather in my opinion, on the west side of the state and move to Spokane. And in that move, I was able to get a position at WSU, so Washington State University, as an adjunct faculty and started lecturing and doing clinicals. And I was in love with it, like absolutely loved it. I knew that I thought I would like it, but I really loved it. So I've been doing that for, this is my fourth year, fourth academic year at WSU. I also work at a local hospital, has a labor and delivery postpartum and NICU nurse now. So I'm still doing bedside care, which is so great. And then also teaching. So it's a great combination. Did that answer all your questions? No. my questions, but I'm gonna say, so you're not doing much, really, is what you're saying. Yeah, no. No, not at all. my goodness, I love it. And I love the story, just that progression there, that's amazing. If it's okay with you, are you okay mentioning where you did work in the Seattle area as a labor and delivery nurse? Over, like, yes we do. because your oldest was born there, correct? and so I knew when you signed up for today, was like, this is just serendipity all over the place. Because I'm like, it's where our first son was born. And for those who haven't heard any other episodes, our first son died many years ago before others were born. And that's the anniversary we're coming upon here shortly. And so for me, it was like, I get Aly in the studio. You know what I mean? Just bringing it back around to where it began. When she said she worked there, we were kind of trying to figure out. Wait, were you there during the years of, you know what mean? So, no, think we just missed that overlap by a few years somehow. I don't remember who came first. So I just love that. I was like, we gotta get that little tidbit out there. Okay, so Aly before I digress further than I already have, I will open up with our now two traditional opening questions, the first of which you can answer however you wish. What are the three words you would use to describe nursing school? All right, well, I would take it from the point of view of being a student. I kind of remember from all those years ago, but really what I recall is rigorous, inspiring, because as you're, well, I'm not supposed to explain anymore, as you learn, you're inspired to do more and learn more, right? And then quick, it's so, so, so fast. yes. in it and you're in the depths, kind of like having a baby, right? Like it goes so fast, but the days feel really long. So I say enjoy it. Yes, we are very big embracers of that mantra that the years are short, but the days are long. so anyone in nursing school listening to you like fast, really fast? No, trust us. You'll agree when it all gets done, we promise. And then the second relatively newer opening question. Do you have three favorite songs in your life right now? I... I'm terrible with remembering the names of songs. But there's an artist that I really love right now that I love almost all of his songs. It's Zach Bryan. Do you know who that is? He's kind of country, which I'm not a country fan necessarily, but I love his songs are like stories. They really tell a story and I love that. My oldest son actually said he loves songs that tell a story and I was like, well, that's exactly what I love too. And I thought that was really perceptive of him. What other songs? This is not a new song, but I love when it's played on the radio because it is played all the time, but it's a Taylor Swift song, Love Story. and I know right it's such a good good good song and I actually sang karaoke to this song when I was at the recent AWHONN convention in Phoenix yes I was like sure why not I'll do that and the Oregon Oregon section chair and I sang love story and I'm sure it was awful on my part. She was an excellent singer but it was fun, fun, fun. Have ever played or sung karaoke? well, that's a loaded question. But first of all, tell me there's a video of this particular incident. people were recording it, but I don't know. can't, I don't know. And I'm afraid to ask. we're gonna try and find it for you all. We gotta hear this. I'm just kidding. So, Aly, just sing a little phrase right I'm just kidding. We don't do that here. Yes! love story, baby, just say yes. That was terrible. it! There it is. This is one of those things where you might contact me after and be like, you know, remember when I did that part? Don't include it. So, to answer your question, just to be not as equally vulnerable, because I'm going to spare people that, but, the only time I've ever done karaoke was senior prom. I'm not a karaoke guy. That's not my thing. And, it was a bunch of guys and myself, and we sang a new Kids on the Block song. I couldn't stand New Kids on the Block, but yeah, I couldn't do it. And we all just, and there's a picture of us all like, you know, doing the thing. And I mean, it was fun and I think it was fun because my voice was drowned out. I don't know, something like that. So, yes, yes. And it's not all eyes on you. Do you have a third song or artist that you are currently enjoying in life right now? I I have always loved the Hamilton soundtrack and I listen to it all the time. So no, it's not current, but... Every once in a while I'm in the mood and so I'll listen to the whole thing. Like while I'm cleaning or driving and I just belt out the songs, I'm sure you can imagine. It's so well done, yeah. So well done. And I'm gonna use that moment to plug one of my favorite artists, Weird Al Yankovic, because he, because we're right off to the, we're just veering right off the road, Aly, here we go. No, but he's got you, and I'm gonna challenge you to look it up when we're done, but he's got his own take on, it's like a Hamilton polka or something like that. And he does, he does his own take on some of those songs. It won't ruin it for you, I promise. All right, enough of this business. Let's get into Aly the person a little bit more. So Aly, where's home for you? Where are you from? Where do you live? What do you like most about home? Home where I live right now is Spokane, Washington. And I truly love the weather here. The people I've met at my multiple workplaces in the community are great, including you. Top five for sure. But home for me was Indiana, Indianapolis specifically. And I grew up there. Only applied to one college, Indiana University. It was like an hour away and I just I went and then realized I really want to get out of here. It's kind of flat. There's no water. There's not a whole lot to do. So I left and never went back. It would be nice to be around family. I do miss that because all my family now, they've left too, but they're in different parts of the country. So it's just my now. family, my husband and my kids that are here in Spokane. yeah. And do you want to tell others about your family that you have here in Spokane? I have a husband, Cory, who works in banking. So he is always totally unsure of what I'm talking about with nursing. And we try to leave any topics of conversation out of dinner time. And then I have three boys who are almost now teenagers, all of them. I have a 16 year old, a 13 year old and a 12 year old. Yeah. So you talk about your son's room. boy. I can just imagine. And you don't have to. It's that whole parenting of teens that man you wish you were better prepared for, right? man. No, that's amazing. What are the things that you like to do, Aly, when you're not doing all the things that you mentioned earlier, teaching and all that, and working and caring for patients, et cetera, et cetera. What entertains you? What kind of hobbies, interests do you have? Well, always think of books because I huge, huge reader. I read a lot and probably around 120 to 150 books a year. Novels, usually sometimes nonfiction, but I really like novels and I really like psychological thrillers. I don't know why, but now that I feel like I've read every single one that's out there, I might be a little bit burnt out on them. For some reason, they can still keep publishing them and they're really starting to seem like they're the same book. So yeah, I track my books on Goodreads, which is super fun and easy. And so if you also read a of books, you should try to find me on Goodreads. Anybody listening? Yeah. It's just Aly Willard. Yeah.-Y -W -I -L -L -A -R -D. Aly Willard. Awesome! Well, I'm gonna do it. I love it. I'm gonna do it. I do like reading. I don't nearly do enough of it because like you, I have got, you know, I'm right now three jobs including this one. and then the family. So that's it. That's my time right now. And I'm looking forward to reading again someday soon as things sort of slow down a little bit. So. that's a thing. don't think that, well, you and I are similar. We always find ways to fill our time, right? More endeavors. Mm -hmm. Let's do that. don't know. People are like, so we had our Gonzaga BSN orientation. people are like, so asked me, like, so how was the summer? Like not having, you know, to worry about a second job. I was like, I just created a new one. I don't know. Like that's what I do. So. Now's the time. The best moment is now. In addition to those hobbies, have you traveled, where have you traveled, and do you have a favorite destination? I love traveling. I don't get to do as much or I didn't make that a priority when my boys were little. I felt like it was more work to go on vacation with little kids, especially when we had essentially three and four and a half years. But when I graduated and before I had started a family, I traveled all over the place. did a lot of backpacking in Europe, in Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, know, generally like that and I even went on a mission trip to Haiti. I was able to join a group from Indianapolis this was right after I graduated and we went to Haiti and helped set up like clinics and that was just it was very very rewarding for me more than I can imagine it was helpful for them but you know when have you ever done anything like that on a mission trip? Not yet. I've done mission trips in my youth, you know, and we had a couple youth group mission trips and they were life -changing for certain, but that is something that's on my bucket list is to do a medical -related mission trip. This Haiti one was this medical. Okay. Sorry, I didn't say that. Yeah, it was a medical one. But general, wasn't any specific thing. weren't helping with. cleft palate repair or anything like that. It was solely just to set up kind of a clinic in this very rural area where they did not have any healthcare available. And people would, however they knew that we were there and set up in this church, would walk for days or did walk for days to get care. Isn't that incredible? And we think we're so lucky, we're so fortunate that we have the resources that we have here in the US. that we often take for granted to be perfectly honest. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. What? No. In our healthcare system? Come on. If you don't mind, this is kind of one of those rabbit trails. Let's just kind of keep going down this road a little bit. Would you mind expounding on your Haiti mission trip experience and kind of why would you recommend that for nursing students or people in the healthcare field? Well, for one, it kind of takes you out of our egocentric view of what healthcare is like in the US. And it really brings you back to what are the basics, what do people need for health and to sustain their health just in very basic terms, right? But it also was so good to see the people that were coming, they were just incredible. Having walked for three days and here they are, excuse me, one, I remember specifically one woman was concerned about her baby and he had never seen any kind of provider. She delivered her baby at home with a friend or with midwives, who knows? And she was bringing him to make sure he was okay. and he was an incredible baby. I mean, he was so beautiful and he was so perfect. And we just even checked him out and that was so important to her and validating for her, I guess. But I just, It was... It was really amazing. was 25 years ago or 24 years ago and so I don't remember a ton. I do remember I just came across some pictures and just the beauty of the people there and they were just... without hardly anything, right? Like no resources, no running water, miles and miles and miles of days from healthcare or from a main city. But they had so much life and love and they were just incredible. Yeah, they were incredible. And then the Haiti earthquakes hit just right after that. I can't remember the exact year, but it just made me devastated because I knew that that population, especially in that rural areas, we're not going to be able to come back from that very easily. you had a personal connection there as opposed to just reading about it in the news. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. That's a topic we have yet to discuss on the podcast. So I'm really glad that you were able to. Anything more that you want me to share about that? No. Great. It's great. Absolutely wonderful. What it does is it exposes people to, you know what I mean? Like, that's the whole idea. Like somebody might not have even thought about it until you're talking about it. Like, medical missions. I gotta put that on my list. You know what I mean? Something along those lines. So yeah. Anything else you wanna share about it? no, I know that I want to do more trips like that. And I know there's a lot of options out there or a lot of trips and organizations, Doctors Without Borders, and companies like that, that offer trips like this. And I want to do that later on. Yeah. Awesome, and there you are listeners. Put it on your list if it's something that appeals to you going and helping other communities. And that's not even, it doesn't have to be quote unquote religious based. It's just a medical mission trip to go and provide care for people if you've got a particular, there are, I've seen, you know, labor and delivery, you know, postpartum, like that sort of like, sort of outreach, like you said, kind of the surgical options that. Mm standard procedures here that don't get to happen elsewhere, the cleft palate repairs, how that changes lives, or like you said, just building a clinic, getting healthcare access. You're talking about just one of the fundamental things that we have here that again, we often take for granted. So thank you for sharing that. Let's get into your nursing journey now, if you don't mind. Why did you wanna become a nurse? Okay, that's a good question, because that all comes up often, right? It's a good icebreaker for whatever reason. I've had to answer this many times in my life, and I really don't remember. I don't remember the actual. The actual, I don't know, like light bulb moment. However, I do remember the point at which I switched my major because I had gone into IU as a journalism major and realized that, boy, this is not what I thought it was gonna be. And I love writing so much. It's a great life skill to have. But journalism was icky. It felt icky to me. feel like I would be serving a greater purpose. And so I remember walking down the street, I can like visualize it in my head and thinking, you know what? Nursing. I'm gonna do that. And I don't know why, like what spurred that. had, my grandmother had been sick prior to that, my grandfather. And so I'd been in the hospitals off and on. and just seeing what are the nurses doing, but it never clicked until that moment. I wish I could remember because I would love to know. But those years, was so long ago, quarter of a Quick, quarter of a century? Yeah, when you start talking about things in terms of how much of a century it is, it does make you feel rather old. good, so there you are everybody. We have just aged Aly in a matter of five seconds. That's it, she just went from going, I'm doing okay to, my gosh, I gotta question my life choices. no, so that's... don't have to question my life choices. That was the best decision I ever made. Hands down, nursing went into it full guns blazing, however you say that, and have always felt like this was the best decision I ever made. my gosh, well, other than the fact that I love caring for families, laboring patients. babies, parents, I feel like there's so much you can do as a nurse. Like there really isn't, there shouldn't ever be a point where you're like, you know what, I have to leave because I can't stand bedside nursing. Well then if you can't stand bedside nursing, there are 300 other things you could do as a nurse with your degree, with your education. And so don't give up. It's a great, I guess it's mission or like reason to wake up in the morning. I'll use my husband as an example. He's a banker. He hates it. He just does not want to go to work every day. He doesn't feel like it's good. He probably has that ick factor that I had for journalism, he has for banking. And I feel like I can't imagine that. You know, if I ever, when I felt burned out, I did something different, realized that that was a bad idea, and then did something else again, and realized that I was back on the right track, but never gave up nursing, right? We're always... as a nurse able to improve a patient's experience, their outcomes, their health, minimize disability, minimize bad. So it's just all around the best career and never, never a bad decision to make. So. Totally agreed. I know there are going to be those select few, and this has been touched on in earlier episodes, but just as far as like there's one particular honored guest that said, you know, honestly, if someone listens to this and goes, nursing is not for me, I definitely now know this, that is in a way a victory in and of itself, because then you're not wasting a lot of time trying to, but for anyone out there that's doubting and you're like, you're listening to us going, well, wait, maybe that means I shouldn't. No, no, no, we're talking about those that like, they had a feeling like, no, this isn't what I want to do, and then we're confirming that for you. That's the people we're talking to. If you're like going, well, I don't know, I'm so scared, like all the things. No, no, nursing is, you've heard it many times, more than what we've talked about the other thing. It is literally, it's, I can't think of a better career, Aly. I can't, and I know we're biased, but man, you get fulfillment, you get paid to serve others, you get to. do so many things, travel so many places. The list goes on and on. Okay, yes, and let's talk about that. What do you love most about nursing school? The flip side of that, what do you love about nursing? What do I love about nursing school? I like to share my passion for it. guess when I was in school, what I remember is a lot of very tenured people. droning on and on about subjects that they either didn't know about, didn't care about, had no interest in anymore. And they were so disconnected from what it was to be an actual nurse. And that's what I craved. And so that's why I want to share that. And that's why I think it's really important as an instructor, as an educator, that I'm still doing the work. Right. I'm still at the bedside. I call that like my street cred because I'm, you know, I'm actually doing that. And I can say, this is reality and this is how you are a nurse. So I like to bring my passion. like to... nurture the little little baby students, little baby students from their chick status up into you know, getting you know, coming out of the nest and and flying or whatever. I a couple of your honored guests have been my students and I love well they were you know amazing students and they were because we shared a clinical group right a few times we shared clinical groups so your students were my students you were in Peds I was OB and I just love to see you know where they're going and what is interesting them and I hope that I've made a little bit of a difference and made them more you know interested in nursing or you know better nurses because of it. sure and I'll tell you what for those that you haven't done that with if that's even a thing it's not for lack of trying right that's what I'm like if I can make a difference in a nursing student's life amazing if I can make a difference in a patient's life that's great and maybe I don't maybe in certain cases it's just not I call it a love connection and I don't mean that in a weird way it ages me actually there was a show a dating show called the Love Connection and so I just I might have mentioned this before, but it circles back around to one of my favorite movies of all time, What About Bob, with Bill Murray, Bill Murray, his comedic best, but he says in there, he says something about like, you know what? I just made sure, I figured out it wasn't a good connection. It's like a phone call. It wasn't a great connection. I'm just gonna hang up. Maybe we'll try again later. Maybe we won't. You know what mean? I just love that philosophy. You're not gonna connect with everybody. And that's okay. But as a nursing student, as a nursing instructor, as a nurse, the goal is of course to, you know what I mean, find those that you do connect with, especially if you're looking for support systems and just lean into them because that's where it's at. And I don't wanna, I could go on for hours about this. This is Aly's episode, it's not mine. But there was a, just edited an episode where someone was talking about cliques in nursing school. Just briefly mentioned it and I go, I guarantee you there's cliques in nursing school. And yes. There's cliques in anything, any educational system you have, there are people that naturally gravitate toward each other. If it's for the detriment of other groups that are in that class, that's a bad thing. But if it's just people of like kind leaning into each other to survive this thing we call nursing school, man, go for it. And as long as you're not, you know what I mean? Like not with the heart of excluding others and you're like, yeah, come on in. That's what, if. If you're like -minded like us and we all study well together, man, make it happen. But find your people, lean into them. I could go on about that forever. Yeah. So, Aly, let's take it back to your nursing career, your bedside career at the moment, and then we'll talk more about nursing education. But as a practicing nurse and as an educator, like how do you balance those things? How does... And I don't know that everybody knows, you you're nursing instructors, especially clinical adjunct. I think people expect that, right? We've got jobs outside of the teaching. But if you're teaching like full time and you're doing bedside work, how do you balance that? And why do you continue to do both? I think you've touched on that why already a little bit. I am not teaching full -time now. I'm only teaching like a 0 .6. And then I'm working a 0 .6 at the bedside. my more than full -time job, I like the balance. I like doing a little bit of both. I think that works out better for my life, for my... financial situation. Okay, because we can be honest that academia is not, unless you have a PhD or DNP, you're not making a lot of money. so but nursing you is very good in that it's very can be lucrative, especially when you have a lot of experience. So Yeah. I heard some breathing in the background. Hopefully that makes the cut. Who's heavy breathing in the background? my gosh, that's my dog, Bernie. He's a little codependent with me and so he has to be in the room with me or he's outside the door pushing on it and banging and making noise. He's like a human. I mean, he's 150 pounds. So he has to, know, makes a big, makes a lot of noise. Makes a lot of noise. And visually for the listeners, what kind of dog is he? He's a rescue that was supposed to be 60 pounds and he is not that. He's a St. Bernard mix we think maybe with Husky or I don't know Australian Shepherd or something. I love it. I love it. He's amazing. So anybody who has heard any heavy breathing in the background, if the background reducer doesn't do it, don't worry. It's not that people are really excited about what Aly has to say in that regards. It's just a heavy old Bernie head coming on through saying hi. All right. So, Aly, as an instructor, .6 or otherwise, you know what I mean? Like, take us down that road of your journey in nursing education. You said you kind of started it. You really enjoyed it. and forgive me if I glanced over it in my brain, but was there like a defining moment where you just decided this is something you wanted to do? Is it something you always knew you wanted to do? And then how has this career enriched you as a person? Well, that's a lot of questions. OK. I think that while I was on the west side of, you know, in the Seattle Bellevue area, there's a lot of traffic. There's a lot of commuting that happens there. And I was working mostly full time and it just didn't work out that I could fit in being an instructor. But I wanted to do that. I was really drawn to students. Maybe not at first, because it did seem a little bit like a burden. And so I am very empathetic with nurses that are working that that quote unquote have to take a student that it can feel like more work than maybe they're not ready or wanting to do for that day. So I have empathy for them. And but once I realize I really love students, I love their energy. I loved like that aha moment when they when you could explain something that helps them finally understand the concept that you're trying to get across. And I think just being open and patient and kind to students helps their learning and helps them feel a part of this profession and welcoming way. Not when we're doing, when we're eating our young, right, Eric? When we're eating our young, we are not being welcoming. So I wanted to do that. It was a, I guess, perfect opportunity when we moved to Spokane. posting for a clinical adjunct instructor at WSU. So I applied and I was really surprised that I got it because I'd had no teaching experience, but I'm so glad I did. And I started with I don't know why, but they let me co -teach a class on health equity or diversity, lecturing, you talking in front of hundreds of people or almost 120 people, which was terrifying for the first time. And then clinicals. But clinicals was so great. So great. So that's kind of my free. And then what was the last question? no, the last question was just the very simple, how has it enriched your life? love it. I think I've always loved having the people that I work with and we have so much in common and we gravitate to each other as friends because we've had the same experiences, right? And some of those are really hard experiences, but we can really relate. It's nice to be able to talk to people about the things you do every day. and just relate on that level. But now as an instructor, I feel like the students are our future. co -workers, right? Like, I feel less of a teacher and more of just like a kind of a facilitator of learning that I'm helping them, showing them the way, and that they're ultimately my co -workers. They're my peers. I feel more of that role for them than I do as like their instructor who's gonna... you know, fail them and I want to flunk them and I want to, you know, put them in these situations, just set them up to fail. No, that is not me. I feel like I'm just a facilitator imparting, you know, my years of experience, hopefully for a benefit. And that's why I'm so glad you're here. Why? And that's one of the qualities I love about you. Cause I wish this was something that, and it's not that everybody, whatever, I just wish it was a more widespread belief. Because there's a lot of people that, you especially the moment you graduate nursing student, you begin, you know, in the moment you sit for the NCLEX, you pass the NCLEX, you have your license. You are now officially no longer one of our students. You're one of our peers. And the idea that immediately. as an instructor, you're already forward thinking, going, you know what, I'm just helping along future peers. These are people who are gonna work alongside me and someday, maybe, take care of us. So you definitely wanna pay that forward. Hopefully we're not irritating anybody that much. like, good, they get to put my catheter in. This is great, I'm not looking forward to this. So always be kind to people. You never know how they're gonna come back around in your life. never know, right? on a on a because that's a positive note i'm flip that just in a weird way because I don't want to lose the opportunity to touch on this before we flip back around and close on your inspiring words. but you mentioned the burnout thing and obviously as one i've you know i've talked about it on the podcast before in my own personal experience with that but can you describe for us like how long did that take when did you feel that how did you first recognize it and did it take you a while to do something about it like what how how did that progression look for you so that people can be on the lookout for that. Well, I think we are so much in a better space now just overall with. resources that we have in hospitals or in teaching institutions for burnout. And back then, so we're talking 1999 to 2002, there just weren't resources. There were no systems in place. There was no Wellspring, whatever, Lyra, all of those companies that offer help to nurses or students when they are struggling. And I was working at an organization that had a very, very low socioeconomic status for their patients. There was a lot of substance use. There were lot of gangs and violence and patients would come in and deliver their babies and leave and just, you know, they would leave their babies. And one, I was not very versed in bias and in non -judgment as a nurse. And I was so judgmental and I was so tired of seeing babies just left or gang fights in the hallway. And it was just a bad environment for me. But I also didn't have the support from administration or even know that that was a thing or that I should get it for myself. And so I burned out. was getting really tired of being a nurse in that environment. knowing what I know now, I could totally do it. I would know my limits. I would know how to care for myself better. But I didn't then. I was so young and there were not those programs in place. So I moved. I was moving to Chicago. for fun, for funsies, and thought, you know what, I don't know if I can do labor and delivery nursing anymore because this is a good opportunity to change and do something else. And at the time, my uncle had brain cancer, unfortunately, and so I, for some reason, thought it would be really interesting to work in neuro ICU because maybe in a way I was hoping that it would help me understand what he was going through. but instead it was similar patient population, but in neuro sense. So there was a lot of trauma. was a lot of gunshot wounds to the head. was just patients that were never going to be themselves, even if they survived. And that was so far from what I wanted to do as a nurse. I mean, very rewarding when there was good things that came out of the care, but overall, just so heartbreaking every single day. And I think that's something that gets lost on the general population. know, just the things, and we've touched on the things that you see as nurses, the things you gotta take care of, the things you gotta deal with, but it never fails to astound me to see what we humans can do to one another, let alone disease and all that, but the abuse that takes place, the violence and the things of that nature. I just can't, like, I... nursing student, prospective nursing student, like you guys are going to enter a field where you may see some of this stuff and maybe you hearing this, this is the first time you go, really? Okay, all right. So it's not a, we're not doing this or exposing you to this to say, hey, you know, maybe rethink your life choices. But if you know that, yeah, if you know that nursing is for you, just be prepared for that and be ready to, you know what I mean, in advance, go, okay. I might be seeing some of this stuff. How do I check my biases? How do I check my, you know what mean, how do I provide the best care that I can give to whatever my patient population is gonna be? That's, think, our goal in sharing this, yes? Yes, taking care of yourself too and just, yeah, paying attention to your cues that you've had enough. and set up great systems for yourself, good support from friends or peers, coworkers, people who've been doing it for a while, lean on them to get some good tips and tricks to get through it. Because really that is, the work has to be done, somebody needs to do it. And most likely if you're feeling that, if you're feeling burnout, it's because you're doing such a good job. Maybe too good of a job, right? And the people who are, acknowledging that they're burned out are hopefully catching it, catching that potential for complete burnout, right? When you want to just leave the profession before it gets to that point. Cause we need you, we need you as nurses, we need you as caring individuals. So don't leave, but recognize that you need help and let it be okay. And I think we are getting to that point where we are all saying it is okay to recognize that you can't work today because of what happened yesterday or that you need to have a different assignment. And I hope, I think we're not quite 100 % there yet, but we're getting there. That's I, you know, opening the door and I'll double check to make sure that my lovely, one of my lovely children is okay with me sharing this before it makes air. So if this is making air, you know I've talked to my child. But we're dealing with this right now. You know, we've made no stranger the fact that our family has, mental health stuff and all. It's one of those things, you know, what did I inherit? Well, wasn't money. It wasn't money. And what am I passing on to my own children? Well, it's not more money. So, you know, we just have those things. So, but the long and the short of it was, you know, the very word, and it just breaks the father's heart, you know, instructing this particular child of mine to call out of shift today. to a job that may or may not, there might be some toxic elements to it. And I just said, hey, and their response to me was, you know, but then I feel like I'm being very unreliable. even now, I'm just, ugh. And so what I said to them was, no, not at all. If anything, that makes you more reliable. It makes you more dependable because you can recognize what's going on up here that's going to potentially prevent you from doing what you need to do on the job that day. And so please, please, please, nursing student, fellow nurses, I don't care how old you are. I don't care how old you are as a nursing student. don't care who you are. Like Aly's saying, like continually check yourself and do that reflect that we've talked about being. Proponents of reflection not just in nursing school, in life take at the end of the day Just if it's five minutes at least take the time to go. Okay How did I feel about how today went? How did I feel about how I responded here? How did I feel about my shift? How did I feel about how I treated my family? How did I feel about this that and the other and just check yourself and then if you recognize there's a need Address that need in the moment. Yeah Yeah, absolutely. Address the need and then, yeah, take care of what you need to take care of. But I like that thinking nobody that comes to work in the state of complete burnout or anxiety because they're afraid that same thing's gonna happen or they're not gonna be at their best and they're not gonna be. Yeah, they're not going be the best caregiver that they can be for that moment. And that could potentially be unsafe. Right. So don't feel like you have to power through it and that you're needed at work 100 % of the time, regardless of what's happening. No, you, you need to take care of yourself first. with that being said, it doesn't mean that you just stay home and, and do things that are not healthy for you. Like just drink a lot or do drugs or something. yes, healthy behaviors, healthy Coping strategies, running. I know you're a big runner. Running is so great. Exercise, getting enough sleep, friendships, reaching out to your peers or somebody, having somebody that can be a support to you that you can go to on your unit is especially great. That's helped me through the years, for sure. Yeah. One more question then for you, because also, like, as my blonde brain is serving here near the beginning of your episode, but you talked about that little brief stint in neuro ICU and you've come back to labor and delivery. How'd you come back? I mean, like, that's an interesting thing to me because, you know, people, when I left Pizonk, there were a couple of people that were like, Eric, good, you're going to go find yourself and come back or, you know what I You're going to go get this fixed and come back. And one person actually said those words. And I was like, I don't... think that's a thing and I'll never say never because I never thought I'd not be in that role anyway. But how do you come back to an area of nursing that you experienced burnout in? Like what did you learn? How did that, how do you prevent it from happening again? Interestingly, when I was leaving... Chicago, I ended up moving from Chicago and I to the west coast so to Seattle and I thought well I want to be a travel nurse and the I knew that my options were not going to be working in a neuro ICU as a travel nurse because I had only done that for about a year and so I thought well I've have you know a few years of experience in labor and delivery so I got a travel job or pretty whatever they called it at Overlake and let me tell you it was a complete 180 from the hospital I worked at before. The patient population is very different and so I felt like and the nursing and everybody was so welcoming it was just fantastic to work there and so I immediately was like okay it doesn't have to be like it was at that other hospital. I can, you know, there are patients that are actually, you know, want to care for their babies and can, they have the resources to care for their babies and they want to, and they are appreciative of your care. And so I stayed and I found my love again of being a labor and delivery nurse. And thank goodness, right? Because it is still the best, the best. Yeah, and with that, guess, is a good also, like never say never. You know what I mean? Anyone out there is like, I'll never do that, or I'll never do that again. I mean, it's cliche, but it's true. You just don't know what the future's gonna bring. And so be open. That's the other part of that I feel like I'm getting from you, Aly, is just be open to the opportunities as they present themselves and evaluate them justly and say, you know. is this the same thing I came from? If it's not, then is this an opportunity to learn something new or to have a better experience? So, yeah. And it can be different shift to shift or unit to unit or same city, different hospital. can be, yeah, it can be different. So yeah, be open and be flexible. Those are two great things. Flexible. Aly, thank you. As always, I don't want to wrap things up, but we're gonna, we're gonna give me those three words that you used to describe nursing school and why you chose them. right. What did I say? Rigorous, because it is, right? It needs to be. You got to learn a lot in order to really have that foundation that you need to be a nurse. Inspiring. I always think education or learning is inspiring. I guess it depends on your learning from the right people. But inspiring to do different things. Maybe you didn't know that you wanted to be an OR nurse until about one day. And then suddenly your whole kind of vision of what you want your career to be like after you graduate changes. So inspiring in that way. And then it goes fast. Like we said, you know, the days are long, but the years are short. You have a lot to learn. Take advantage of it, but don't stress out so much that you lose like the... real point of it and that is to just be a solid, generalist nurse. You don't have to know everything, you have to know a lot, but really know those foundational, I guess, components of nursing and learn how to think like a nurse and use your critical thinking and you will do so well. You'll do amazing things. I don't know how that came from fast, but whatever. That's... It works because it's nursing. That's it. That's what we made it work. It just happened here. Now, you've seen that. All right, so in closing, Aly, if there's one piece of advice you'd give nursing students, the one thing you'd want them to walk away from your episode with, what would that be? Well, I guess I kind of said it in that enjoy it, enjoy the process, learn everything that you can learn, but don't make it about the grades, getting straight A's, being perfect. Memorizing is good, but really learning those that critical thinking and judgment pieces are way more important. We have so many resources now where we can regurgitate material that has to be memorized, right? And maybe you have to memorize it for a test, maybe like anatomy, physiology. But beyond that, like really understanding like critical thinking and how you get. from one decision to the next and what your prioritization is for that patient, those are the most important things, in my opinion. nuts when they hear the word critically thinking. Because I'm forever like, okay, we lost the keys. Let's critically think our way through this. Where were we last when we used them? and so I think in my house, it's almost become a swear word. But anyway, critical thinking, so, it just, it helps your life so much. So I'm not gonna piggyback off what you had to say there. You spoke it so eloquently and here I am trying to ruin it. So the last question for you, Aly. is if you had one piece of advice for fellow instructors, professors, lecturers, etc. What would that be? Instead of wanting to set them up for failure, just nurture them, put yourself in their position and as learning. we know now with so much good data evidence that positive learning environments do not look like the nurse that wants to... fail this or at least this is what I've heard recently. I have to fail at least one student when I do my skills checkoffs. What is that? So that's what I'm saying is like nurture your students, put yourself in their position and you will have a they will have a better learning environment and they will be more successful. Yeah, we I call that the survivor mentality of nursing the television show and I joke with my students like I'm not gonna be that guy who is going to sit here and tell you that one of you will be voted off the island by the end of the you know what mean? Hey Yeah, and I like why why I don't understand like if you obviously if you're not making making you're not Pulling your weight. You're not doing what you're supposed to do. That's a different story, but but it's also not like okay you're just automatically cut. Hopefully there's resources and stuff like that. no, why, yeah, no, we're not out, most of us are not out there to get you. Most of us are not out there to fail you. Most of us are not, the other term, I'm sure you've heard it, Aly, is weeding us out. They're there to try and weed us out. And I'm gonna tell you right now, unless you genuinely prove yourself time and time again to be unsafe to care for another human being, you're fine. The only ones that need to be weeded out are the ones who are there to either intentionally harm somebody or just can't or like I don't even want to know I am having you close this and I keep having things to say I've talked about one of my favorite shows. Did you ever watch scrubs Alley? and and that You a hundred percent and you knew where I'm going with this that character Doug I think was his name and Doug was the one med student who just He couldn't, he didn't intentionally harm anybody, but he kept killing his patients and he kept, it was almost a humorous thing where he couldn't, you know, and so then he found his niche was perfect, like in the morgue or something, I think doing autopsies. But the idea was that even Doug had a place in healthcare and in this world. And, but genuinely, if you're like Doug and you are accidentally harming people all the time, maybe we think of something else, but no. I've digressed so much. The whole point of it is nobody's here to weed you out. We're not here to weed you out. We're here hopefully to support you. Again, find the ones that are there to support you. And that may not be the entire faculty of wherever it is you're learning. It doesn't make anybody better than anybody else. You just might have that love connection, a better connection with somebody there. Find that person and reach out to them, ask them questions and all the things. So, Aly, anything else before we close that you would want to share to nurses, nursing students, nursing instructors? or even the layperson who happens to be listening. Nursing is the bomb. That's all I have to say. It is the best decision I've made and I hope to impart that to other people who are maybe on the fence about it. But know that it is rigorous. It is hard but it is so worth it. So worth it, every last minute of it. Aly, thank you so much for spending time with me this morning, now turned afternoon. And I hope you, yeah. But we're ending at your normal start time, so we're fine. We started early, everybody. She's... we're good. You and Bernie, have a lovely day. Have a lovely day with the rest of your family, and thank you. All right, bye.