81 - Kara Buller Pt 2: Enjoy the Ride!

Continue with nurse manager and Vancouver, Washington native Honored Guest Kara Buller as she chats about how she transitioned from bedside to management, her time in the unique role of administrative fellow, having difficult conversations, her practical points for students coming out of school (the DOs and DON’Ts of interviewing), showcasing your hard work, making personal connections with your patients, what makes a good manager, and more!

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Transcript

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And here we are in part two of the enigma that is the Kara Buller Experience. Kara, welcome back! Hello. You know, so glad to have you. Had such a delight so far. Let's continue the fun, and we're not gonna waste any more time. We've already covered, if you've missed the first episode, jump back, get to know her history. We get into some very, very crazy details about her wild, wild youth. So you don't want to miss that. Just kidding. Of course, we wouldn't do that here on this podcast. We'll save that for an episode three down the road. Yeah, yeah, professional. Sure. Bigfoot. So moving along. Kara, we are, we we've just entered your assistant nurse management phase. Anything you want to talk about that phase of life and then how you have continued down the leadership and management path. Again, I think I might've stated it prior, but my most favorite phase of my nursing career so far, I will say it was, if I'm allowed to say that, you know, given where I am now, but it was the sweet spot for me. It was the sweet spot. At that time, you know, the ANM design, you were charge nurse on the floor, you know, three days a week. And then you had, you know, your office duties. It allowed me to kind of be in that leadership role, but still work alongside all of you guys, still take patients, still interact. Like it allowed me to do everything that I wanted to do. So really when I say it was a sweet spot that's, that's where it was for me. But you guys helped grow me up for lack of a better term, really. Like I was a baby when I started in leadership and in nursing, I feel like. And we all learned along. the way, but boy did I have a great team, you know, a supportive team and understanding team. And it wasn't always easy, but whatever it was, you know, I, I think we had this understanding for each other. And I used to say it, you know, you guys have a job to do and my job is to hold you accountability, accountable to that. And I have a job to do and that's holding you guys accountable for your job. And it's just kind of everyone understood that. And I think that's what made it so easy where we could walk into my office and have a difficult conversation if it needed to be had and then step back out of the nurse's station and continue our same rapport because it, you know, it wasn't a personal attack on anyone, right? It was, you know, we had work was work and play was play. And, you know, although I do remember, I think it was Val in the very beginning, she was like, It's weird that you're my boss because I could be your mom. Yes, that is true. Thank you so much for pointing me out. oh my. possibly meet. there's no ill will there. She just was just a sweet spirit. Yeah. it was just, and that's all it was really. It was just calling and calling out, plain and simple, this stating the facts, I guess, so to speak. And then it never played a factor in our relationship, know, our working relationship at all. But again, I think that's just a testament to everyone and how, you know, respectful. Was it easy all the time? Absolutely not. Did it suck sometimes to have to have difficult conversations? Yes, but I think in the end, you know, I knew that we could all circle back around and it wouldn't change our working dynamic. And so I would definitely offer that up for advice for anyone, really. You're going to have a difficult conversation at some point with your leader just because we're all humans, right? And things happen and mistakes happen. It doesn't mean that it's a personal attack on you or your character. It just simply is what it is. And then I would just let it go from there and move on because I promise you, your leader has let it go and has moved on. unless you're doing the same thing again and we've got to circle back around. But really, know that there is a difference and a separation. So fast forward out of that, I kind of felt like at the end of my ANM career, not that I was outgrowing you guys as a team, but I wanted more experience. I wanted to feel like I can make more of a difference, maybe so to speak, and I wasn't as restricted to my ANM role. So I did make a difficult, very, very hard decision, lots of tears, to leave the unit and try and go get some day shift experience, right? That's what everyone was telling me, you need to have day shift experience. And that was really difficult to walk away from you guys. You know, one thing you never got from me and I had for a really long time was... I'd finished about half of everyone's handwritten letters from me because that's what I wanted to leave with you guys. But I just, it was hard to get through them and then I couldn't get through them and I couldn't very well deliver half of them and not the others. But it's just, that's what you guys meant to me. It was more than just a goodbye. It was so much more than that. And that everybody, that is the heart of Kara Buller. So took a new job as a nurse manager in more of like a long -term extended stay type format. Amazing people, not my jam. I mean, at the end of the day, I am an inpatient nurse. So it was just a... huge amount of respect for everyone who works in those roles. I just, wasn't what I was used to, it wasn't what I knew, but it gave me a little bit different experience outside of my role. And then I had an amazing opportunity to come back and apply for a position at Sacred Heart, really as our administrative fellow slash centralized hiring manager. And that was such a fun role. my gosh. Hey, I was just excited to get back in the building and see my peeps again. and just be where I felt most at home. But then I got the opportunity to interview a bulk of our nurses and CNAs for almost a year. And that was such a cool experience. A lot of opportunity to meet and interact with new grads or soon to be grads. Interview them, ask questions, and just really try and help them find their best fit and also help them keep an open mind. Mm You know, lot of what I ran into is, I want to be a NICU nurse. I want to be an ER nurse. I want to be a ICU nurse. You know, that's what I want. Okay, well then let's have that difficult conversation that the reality of that happening right out the gate in today's day and age is really, really tough. But what are the pathways that will get you there down the road? And you know, I'm trying to help them fall in love with a different aspect of nursing and maybe help connect the dots to what that will lead to for their future. So that was, I will say really, fun time in my career because it was something different and exciting. And now, gosh, I've been in my role for nine months, ten months, nurse manager of Five South at Sacred Heart on our surgical unit. Wow, wow. what, so first of all, let's touch on that non -traditional position because that's not one of those things that pops into students' minds or nurses' minds about things you can do with your license, right? So I mean, how do you... Describe it a little more in detail like the the things that you need to do in that role the qualifications for that role and do you Yeah, wait wait, and do you think that that role exists elsewhere? You know, is this is this the kind of limited maybe to larger hospitals or what do you what do you think that? I think it's certainly a newer concept. I think that is, you has caught on, I would say probably post pandemic as we've all been in this, you know, massive nursing shortage and how do we best utilize our resources. Utilizing an A or a nurse manager to interview after interview after interview all day is probably not the best use of our resources. So they've kind of created these other roles. For our hospital in particular, this role was kind of a bridge, a segue to knowing that the candidate that they selected wanted to expand their previous roles and wanted to work into leadership. And so for me, it was an amazing segue to have an opportunity to get to know our directors and work on group hospital projects and connect with other nurse managers and really build my... connections, you know, with those in leadership in the building in preparation, hopefully, of applying and, you know, taking a nurse manager position. That's the whole goal. It was, it's a temporary position at Sacred Heart and that's how it was introduced. So I would say no specific qualifications other than previous leadership experience, you know, was a bonus. And certainly the desire to want to grow as a leader and, you know, progress down that path was definitely required. So for me going into it, I was just getting ready. I had been accepted into WGU. I just hadn't pulled the trigger on my start date yet. So. That coupled with my ANM history and my desire to grow in my leadership, that's I think what helped land me that position. I am proud, I would say one of the things I'm most proud of during my time in that position was bringing back our in -person hiring events. Myself and one of our HR business partners worked together to really recognize that technology is not everyone's jam. Yeah. people still listen to just the radio. yeah, right. And so navigating our, you know, at times very difficult onboarding system is challenging. So our bringing back an opportunity for people to get into the building, meet someone face to face, have an opportunity to walk around the unit or the hospital or whatever and help them navigate that onboarding process that at least that application process was huge and we've had amazing success, I will say, because it's not just been for nurses and CNAs. We kind of took a stance of we want to use it as a platform for everyone. so, know, EVS, security, patient transport, nutrition, food and nutrition, like we've added in a lot of entry level positions because what we find typically is those are the people who need a little bit more help with that whole. technology side. So it's been really cool to see people come in, get an application in because they've gotten help, get interviewed and get hired on the spot and then start. And that starts their, you know, their career at Providence. So plug for Providence. We're amazing. But yeah, that was fun. It was fun to get those back and going and then just be able to meet people. There was a lot of interviewing that I did via Teams and you can only get so much out of that. There's body language, there's energy. You need so much more than a 30 minute Teams interview to really decide if someone's a good fit or not, in my opinion. Awesome. And we'll continue with that theme before touching on the leadership or the management side of things. So I can tell you right now that there's so many students that have just listened to you talk about this position. And they're like, well, that's great, Eric. That's fantastic. I'm so happy for her. That's not necessarily a position I want to get into. But what I really want to know is what do I need to know to get hired? Love it. what are your practical points for students coming out of school, whether it's Providence, wherever they're gonna go, how do you as a student get hired somewhere? What are the things you're looking for? You're on the inside, what are you looking for? I love this question. I think very different from when you and I interviewed for our jobs. These days, it is a two -way job interview. utilize that format. And when I say that, it is not, I'm gonna start with what really drove me crazy. And. These are the list of things not to do. Please. do not come out and ask me out of the gate what I'm gonna do for you. It's a huge turn off. You're gonna get health benefits, you're gonna get, you know, sign up, you're gonna get all that stuff. Really, you should have done your work and read a little bit about what we offer. But the mentality of, listen, yes, there's a nursing shortage. We have an abundance of positions open, so does everyone else. But just walking into it, kind of with that not confident, but cocky attitude, is a turn off. Hands down, for me. How are you going to serve my needs? Yeah. how you're going to serve the patients that I need you to serve. Let's talk about that. So that's a rough one. Although I think there's a time and a place to ask those questions, it is not right out of the gate. It's okay to be nervous. I'll say that. It is okay to be nervous. And you know what? It's okay to tell me you're nervous. I'm okay with that. These conversations can be laid back. It's not okay to wear a tank top. Not okay. I don't need to see your arms. It's not okay to walk around with your laptop and show me everything in your house as you're trying to find your best wifi spot. Should have done that prior. It's, I love these ones. I love the "not" I'm like, we just, you have the floor, sister. You take us along with the nots and the yeses. Yeah. don't interview in your car. Just don't interview in your car. Just don't do it. Not okay to sit on your front porch and have whoever the individual might've been come out smoking a cig in their bro tank behind you. Not okay. I don't need to meet your animals during the job interview. I just don't. Even if you put them in your lap and you wave them at me, as much as I love Mr. Snuggles, he is not important to your nursing career in my opinion. He's not gonna make her break the fact that you're hiring them? Wow. because chances are I ever get to meet Mr. Snuggles. least I hope you're not trying to bring Mr. Snuggles into work. man. So really, it's not hard. I mean, your go -to is just, I don't even care if you wear scrubs, but look put together. Please don't tell me that your camera doesn't work. That is a red flag. You should have tested this out. You can do it on your mobile phone. That's just, if you don't wanna show yourself, I'm a little concerned. We know how these things work now. Again, it's okay to be nervous, ask questions, come prepared, know something about the organization. I started out, Providence specifically, and I would say probably that most organizations who have... like a motto or, great, now I'm drawing a blank on ours. Core values, core values. Mission statement, thank you. Look into all of those. So I start every single, does not, regardless of what position I'm interviewing for, I ask you about our core values and which one speaks to you the most as a healthcare professional. Although that might make you nervous, it shouldn't be rocket science. know, you should be able to connect somehow. That's why I want to see. I want to see that you have given some thought into this organization and why you think it's a good fit for you, because it needs to be a good fit for you. It should not be because we have the highest paying, you know, they got the highest sign on bonus or the highest wage. You know, if you really don't feel like the organization is something that you align with. then it's not gonna be good for you in the long run, I promise you that. And then our patients feel it. So, you know, that's something that I challenge you is, you new grads, as you're looking at where you wanna be, aside from looking at, you know, the area of nursing that you think you wanna do the most, and, you know, pay and benefits, that's all important. Make sure the company aligns with who you are as a person and... and is somewhere that you could see yourself working for. Yes. Please. that's just it. Like, look at that and go, my, do your values line up with my values in a way that we are compatible and that I'm not gonna get prematurely burnt out only simply on the basis of this organization is not what I thought it was. Absolutely. Absolutely. Any other advice for students seeking interviews? Sorry, I just, yeah. sell yourself. You guys have made it so far and you've put in all the hard work. And I think I said this, I've had the pleasure, I love it how Gonzaga does kind of their mock interviews prior to their new graduates going out into the world. But it's my biggest piece of advice when I'm with them is don't sell yourself short. So when you're asking the questions, tell me about a time you worked with a difficult patient, whatever the question may be. Don't sell yourself short. Yes, you might've had a preceptor, but what did you do in the moment? Because I guarantee you did stuff. to, know, like, yeah, don't sell yourself short. You're a nursing student, but you were doing things. You were doing hard things. You were doing great things and showcase that. I guess that's what I wanted. I want it, that's not bragging. That's letting me know that you know that you're doing really important work. And like you said, it's not breaking as long as it's not with that cockiness that you talked about earlier, where you're like, look at me, look at what I've done. And people can pick up on that. I don't care if it's a teams meeting. That's something that you can pick up on very easily. And everything you're saying just brought me back to nursing school. It's these things that just, you never forget. They're in there rattling around somewhere. But I'll never forget in the context of just charting. Simply the simple topic of charting. And I remember our instructors telling us, know, brag on what you did. Obviously, your note in a patient's chart is not going to be, hi, my name is Eric and I am amazing at how I cared for this patient today. That's not what they meant. What they meant is if your patient, if you help get them up to shower, if you did this, if you, whatever, you know, bring that into the fold because it's not about bragging about you. It's about saying, hey, OK, this patient has showered, this patient has done it. And It gives you the confidence too to go, you it's almost like a mini self -reflection where you go, I guess I did do that this shift. Okay, that's a good thing, you know what mean? And it builds confidence, yeah. I think so much people want to hear, like when I talk about like, tell me about your most difficult patient and you know, I always preferences with difficult meaning. Difficult to you, difficult diagnosis, difficult family, whatever it may be. But what I'm really looking in there is not like, could you pinpoint their diagnosis and you suddenly cured them? I'm looking for how did you make a personal connection? And how did you like, maybe you were the only one who took the time to say, Mr. Smith, you know, what's going on? How can I help you today? you want a diet Coke instead of a diet Pepsi? Absolutely. Let me see how I can make that happen. Sometimes. It seems insignificant, but that's what is a game changer for patients is somebody who takes the time to sit and ask the questions and listen. And I want to know that you're not so hyper focused on your tasks, on your tasks at hand, that you can actually connect with your patient on a different level, which often leads to a more meaningful care experience for them than just you curing their ailment or treating their ailment. It's a vulnerable time in people's lives. And I think sometimes it's easy to lose touch with that reality. You know, we are in this environment day in and day out, and it is, it's like clockwork to us. You know, we don't have to think twice, you sometimes about the tasks that we're doing, but for some people, it's their very first hospital experience. And, you know, it's, it is our job to take care of their mind, body, and soul. Like, you know, the whole person. So shameless plug for GU, you know, our philosophy courses and all that stuff that kind of delve, you know, dove more into that topic. Super helpful. You know, it is not just about treating a disease process or a diagnosis. It's really about so much more. And so that's what I want to know when I'm interviewing, you know, new, new grads or really anybody that you are able of forming those connections that that is something that you're thinking of. Obviously we don't have six hours to spend and sit in a patient's room, but how can you form that meaningful connection in a short amount of time. that's what I want to hear. Brag about that. Brag about those moments. so huge because short of having a patient who is a difficult stick and historically has, you know, everybody misses their IV the first seven times or whatever, you know, and you get it the first try, man, you're, obviously you're going to make an impression. But short of that very like one percentile experience, your patients don't remember you because you put in a catheter really good or because you hung G -tube feeds without any complications or you're able to administer chemotherapy without screwing up, they're not gonna remember that about you. What they're gonna remember is did they make a connection with you? Do you seem as though you genuinely care for their well -being while they're under your care? Those are the patients, those are the moments that make you a better nurse, that make you a great nurse. I've said it before - real quick. I'm a shameless plug for you. no. And what makes you stand out on postpartum, ladies and gentlemen, when we're talking about connections. Listen, don't be embarrassed here. nope, not embarrassed, not embarrassed. is, like I said, this is a whole 45 minute ego stroke. We're just talking about how awesome Eric is. No, yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, traditionally, postpartum nurses are female. But when you were talking about making those connections, here's why you're such a successful postpartum nurse is you walk in the room and you make sure you call out like the dads in the room who often feel like they don't know what they can be doing. Like, what should they be doing in this moment? And so the fact that you've been there as a dad multiple times, but that you take the time to acknowledge and recognize them. I think a lot of people overthink that, you it's just a family member in the room, but you always have taken the time to acknowledge and include them. And that really makes their experience, right? Like you are taking care of that whole family and not just that mom and not just that baby. So really that's, you know, one thing I've always admired about you on our postpartum unit as you really do care about the family unit in that room and take the time to acknowledge them. And it's a huge recognition. That's what makes their experience. Not that you helped change a baby's diaper or that you gave a great hep B shot. Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you for that. It's, it is always humbling when it gets turned around because I love complimenting everybody that comes on this thing. And then, and then those moments where somebody's like, yeah. I'm like, moving along. I don't know that's going to make the episode. So sorry. Thanks so much. That made me feel really good. but no, the, and that actually buttresses the point that I wanted to make. part of that is being at least some of the tenured nurse coming onto postpartum. And part of it is being a father, like you pointed out, and making sure that that father doesn't feel like a third wheel. But you saying this, what it's bringing me back to is the fact that, my peds background, when you're in peds, what I often preach to my students and to new hires and all the things is, Yeah, you're there for the patient, especially in pediatrics, and it's true of every area of nursing, okay, just period, but especially in pediatrics, your patient is the entire family, the entire family unit, and sometimes that gets A, lost, but B, makes your job much more challenging. Maybe your patient's just the sweetest little boy or girl or whatever, and you've got the overbearing grandma or the parents who are maybe a little more verbally not so kind to other people in the room. of putting it. So you have to take the whole picture. And so I think that helped inform my experience as well in postpartum. But the idea is that, what I wanted to pull this, although what you're reinforcing for me is the point I was gonna make before you so kindly threw that out there was just that I've said it before on this podcast, the serendipity of having things repeated and. and previous instructors saying, if something was repeated, it's very important, write it down. It doesn't matter if you heard it more than once, you're hearing it from other people especially, it's super important. And just earlier, the honored guest that came before you, Kara, is touching on these very same things about, and she called it the soft skills. You know what mean? It's not that you're not going in and doing this or the catheter and that, yeah, you've got to know all that, it's super important. However, The other parts that she really emphasizes with her students are those things that, you know what mean, like don't forget that when you go in the room, she says, and I love the way she phrased it, and I'm saying this for the benefit of those that may not have heard her episode, Shawna McMillan, go and listen to her episode. But the idea is that you go into a room and she's like, she'll ask her students, she's like, well, what are the first things you do? Well, I knock on the door and I check that, you know, I put my name on the board and I check the curtain and I, you know, to this, that, and she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, these are all super important things. But what's the first thing you do? You look at your patient and just get a feel for what are they feeling and looking like in that moment. Do they have a smile on their face? Do they look like they're in pain? Just like those things that get lost in the minutia of what nursing school drives into us, which is making sure your skills are accurate, right? Yeah, awesome. teach you. Skills, we have this with new grads. Most of our new grads on our unit are on nights and they're my direct reports. I keep them as mine. And that's what I try and drive home. Skills I can teach you and they will come. I don't want your skills to be, I don't expect your skills to be there from day one. But it's the human interaction, all these other soft skills. Those are what's the most important. That's gonna make or break your experience for your patient, quite honestly. We almost need like a 10 commandments in nursing. I'm sure something like that already exists out there, but man, that's gotta be one of them right there. That's gotta be, you know? This is non -negotiable, people. I need you to be safe. Yes, I need you to follow standard precautions and all that, but I also need you to, to your point. Just had this conversation not too long ago. Acknowledge your patient. Read their body language. Make sure that we're not in such a robot state of mind that we're just checking our little boxes and then we think we've accomplished everything, yet we forgot to ask our patient, how are they doing tonight? Did we turn the lights back off when we left because it's 11 o 'clock and I'm doing an assessment? Did I turn the computer screen off because I know that glare is really, really annoying? It's those little things. So yeah, it's so important. So important, what you were saying. Awesome, awesome, awesome. I just love, love this time with you. I hate to wrap things up. We're gonna be wrapping up shortly, but before we do, I do a disservice. If we didn't talk a little bit more about being a manager, you know what I mean? And this is a two -fold. There'll be, I'll start with the first half of the question. I'm finding that I'm asking like seven questions in a row back to back, and honored guests are like, where do you want me to start with that? So no, legitimately. As far as whatever you can, obviously there's sensitivity things and all that business, but being a manager. Historically, television, movies, right? Like you got the bumbling idiot. It doesn't take a whatever. I mean, one of my favorite shows, The Office, right? You got Michael Scott. He's just a heart of gold, but man, the guy just can't do his job. And so, how do you... What are the qualities you feel like define a good manager? How do you continually strive to get better in that role, personally? Great, great. Honestly, I think one of your big things is just visibility. Being there for your team. Does your team know who you are? Do you know who they are? That was one of the first tasks I tasked myself with is can I learn everyone's first and last names so when I see them in the hallway or at the grocery store, I know who they are. I know how important it is for me to feel seen and heard, you know, by my leadership team and I wanted to do that with my team. So that was, I think that's a huge one. Just taking the time to know them. For more than just a body on the floor. That's always been a big one for me. You're you're more than just a nurse or a senior on the floor for me. That visibility, transparency is a big one. You know, I want... I think it's important as a leader, whereas if you're coming to me asking a question, you're getting an answer. Susie comes to me with the same question and Susie's getting the exact same answer, not just something that she wants to hear. I have worked for leaders like that in the past and it's difficult. It's difficult because if we don't think everyone's talking, then we, our hand is, you know, our head is buried in the sand. So. Open communication, transparency, visibility, those are really big ones for me. Obviously, there's things that go on behind the scenes that not everyone gets to be subject to. But I think if you work on building that foundation and starting to lay those layers of trust down, then your team can hopefully trust that when they're bringing issues and concerns. There are things that are happening in the background, even if I don't get to tell you every single step along the way. So those are big ones for me. And I'm going to piggyback on that for those that, you know what I mean? Like it's so easy to throw leadership management under the bus, especially when things aren't going well, right? And so goes the ship as goes the captain or whatever the saying is. But there's a couple of key takeaways from this for anyone entering the nursing field or any field for that matter, for casual listener that's still with us. Know that your leaders, your management. you know, assistant nurse managers, nurse managers on up the line, like whatever, they're people. They're definitely people. You know, you have to develop, I imagine, a certain level of tough skin and all the things, but at the end of the day, they're still people. And so I hope that you have leadership management that is at least appearing as though they are doing the best they can. And the other side of that too, and this is just coming from Eric as the father? I don't know, you know, of kids, of teenagers who are navigating the adult world? Like, part of your job as a dad, as a mom, as a parent? here we go again. Part of your job as a parent is to shield your kids from stuff they don't need to worry about right now. walking through that personally right now in our lives. And the same is true of leadership management. that phrase you said, Kara, there's things that are going on behind the scenes we don't know and we don't ever need to know. And maybe some of us, gosh, if we knew, you know what I mean? Like we'd just be out of there. And so just know that they're people and know that hopefully they're assuming positive intent just like anybody else obviously you're gonna have managers that are there for a paycheck or there for whatever just like a nurse would just like you know instructors there are people who are like that and so you know hopefully you don't find yourself under their tutelage whoever they may be I fortunately have yet to positive mine is you know positive and negatives for everybody that I've ever worked with including myself And I have yet to say that I've worked under or with somebody who genuinely doesn't give a rat's rear about anyone. And hopefully you never are able or have to say that either. We do, I mean, yeah, I love the shameless plug and I'll put it out there again. I work with an amazing group of leaders at Sacred Heart right now who all genuinely care more about their staff, I think, than we're able to relay, to show. Because sometimes it gets lost in translation. If I can't do this for you, then I don't care. And that's simply not true because... Even in this role, right, I wanted to climb the ladder because I wanted to be able to do more and make more of a difference. My hands are still often tied with what I can and cannot do. As in any industry, I think, you know, as you kind of work your way on up. But the intent is there, the desire to want to do the best that we can for you as a leadership group. I promise you it's there. and we are human. I love that call out and I thank you for it. I have had really good days and then I've had days where I've had to go in my office and cry, hands down. And it is what it is. But the good days outweigh the bad days and I'm in my role because I want to be here for my people, whatever that looks like for them. And so long as those good days outweigh the bad days, then guess what? You're still in that role, right? Like that's the, when that scale tips, that's where you start questioning life decisions again. So one last question for you specifically regarding this, and that would just be any advice for students that are like, you know what? From the get -go, I feel like leadership management is where I want to head, if not right away. I know that's what I want to do. What's your advice for them? do it right away. I mean, hands down. I probably could have benefited for some more bedside nursing experience. I think if you have some of that, you know, I would say the same is true for like, NPEs. Spend some time as a nurse before, you know, diving into that role because there's such valuable lessons to be learned at the bedside that you just can't learn without that experience. So I literally just had one of my new... New grads started not too long ago asking me this question. Why did you get into leadership? How'd you get into leadership? All that kind of stuff. What does that look like? So my advice to her was to start small. Start when you're ready. And that really should be at least a year. Start with precepting. See what that feels like. Because that's a level of leadership. There's so much leadership that we can do in our roles that we don't even maybe fully acknowledge as leadership. So take on a senior practicum student. Take on a new hire. Because that's a leadership. And then look at a charge -nourished role. That's a great opportunity where you start to work with other units and you have more communication with the health supervisor and staffing and all that, where you start to go from my patient population to maybe my buddy's patient population to, now I'm kind of in charge for running the whole unit, you and you broaden your scope. And then look for those like A -type roles, but start slow and build your way up and decide if that's really what you want. want to do, want to be in. Leadership is not a I come in, I clock in, I clock out, and I go home. You know a leadership is a 24 -hour, seven days a week job that never quits and you know that's my biggest plug and I that's why I love it. You know I never have a day off, quite honestly, and my staff know that but that's important for me. So make sure if you're wanting to head down that route that that's what That's what you're prepared to do. Because if you want to be a leader who's just Monday through Friday business hours, you will not be successful in your role, just hands down. But if you want to be someone who wants to get to know the individual and be there for him really for things not even related to work, sometimes that's what you need in a leader. You need to be ready to be that person or to help offer resources and just be able to be uncomfortable with the unknown. Yeah. I don't know, leadership's amazing. For all of you that are opportunity to do it, maybe for our new upcoming leaders who might someday be one of my bosses, it's an amazing route in nursing to take, I think. Yeah, I know at the risk of stepping on that absolutely beautiful moment like I'm just hearing you say like, know, well you Someone listening here. You might be her boss someday and I just pictured Val as the older nurse that you're going to call back to what you said say you tell you, my goodness, I could be your mother, but I will still respect you and what you are bringing to the table. So it's just, that's the beauty of nursing. my gosh, there's so many things you can do with it. It's amazing. Yeah. Welcome, welcome to the club. just, Alright, so Kara, you picked three words you used to describe nursing school, what were they, and why did you pick them? Purpose. Purpose was one I was thinking of and a couple different reasons. Really for me, choosing nursing as a career I know was going to give me purpose in my life. And that was important to me. I wanted to do something where I really felt like I could get back to others and, you know, do something meaningful. And I have not been disappointed throughout my career at all. I can define myself as all sorts of different, you know, I'm a wife, I'm a mother, I'm all these things, but I also get to define myself as a nurse. And for those of you just getting into this career, like that's a pretty important and significant title to hold. People look up to you, people trust you. it's a, help me out, Eric, what's the word I'm looking for? Like it's an honor to hold that title because there's so much responsibility that comes with it, but it has given me a lot of purpose in my life. And so I'm grateful for that. Intimidating. Nursing school was so intimidating. Holy moly. Even thinking back, and I won't name my, instructor by name, but it was our cardiac and like you would try and hide from them because she would come up and she would pull you into the break room and drill you on your medications. And I remember thinking, do all nurses know all of this about every single medication they're giving? Cause that I'm never going to be there. Never. I'm not that smart. I'm never going to be there. And it's just intimidating, right? From day one, you pick up your first textbook and you're reading words that you can't even pronounce and...-hmm. trying to absorb this wealth of information that you know you're never gonna, it's intimidating. It's a giant feat and I think it's okay to acknowledge that yeah, we might have to know it for this test, but it's okay if it slips our mind because we have resources and if no one said it, you're never alone as a nurse and never alone as a new grad. So you don't have to know it all. So although nursing school was extremely intimidating, I think just because of the level responsibility in our career it's also okay to have you know a little healthy fear. Yeah. Yes! And then I think my last one was fun. A, I'm just a person who likes to have fun in their life in general and I'm sarcastic and I like to joke and I like to play hard work hard, right? Story of my life. But nursing school was fun. I got to hang out with some amazing people. I got to learn some really cool things. I got to experience, I full on experienced college everybody and went to nursing school and still graduated. So for me, I really had a fun and enjoyable college experience and was able to fulfill my dream. And nursing in general is fun. It's hard and it's serious work, but it's also rewarding and it's a good time. I feel like that gets lost a lot too, you know, in the hubbub of modern culture and all the things and all the things we've got to... Don't forget it can be fun and help... Yes, help make it fun, help change the culture as you get confident and build confidence and all the things. And the other thing, I have to touch on this because you mentioned that good kind of fear and I always preach that to my students. I am always saying there are two types of fear. And there's the one that cripples you. There's the one that prevents you from opportunities, you know, taking advantage, maximizing the opportunities that come before you. But there's the other, and it's a healthy kind of fear. It is a respect. It is a fear of the unknown. It's a fear of the, you know, just that fear. And look in a dictionary. Like, go look at one of the old dictionaries. If you go to your grandma, grandpa's house and they got the books on the... Fear. Fear. It's a healthy respect for the responsibility that's been placed on you. That's an okay fear to have every day of your career. Don't lose that fear. on that note, Kara, one piece of advice for nursing students listening to your episodes, what do you want them to walk away from if nothing else? Come work for 5South. Hahahaha! Sacred Heart Providence, Sacred Heart Medical Center. And did you see how I like let I have leaving space for her to actually correct that and she's not I'm sorry. I'm circling back around. gosh. See, I told you guys I was sarcastic. Also, super fun pause. One piece of advice. this, I don't know if it's solid, but enjoy the ride. my goodness. You know, just enjoy every phase that you're in, know, nursing school, post nursing school, starting your new job. Don't, you know, there's, there's pressure, there's fear, there's a level of responsibility, but just enjoy the ride. Enjoy what you've accomplished. Be proud of yourself because it was a lot and not everyone could do it. The NCLEX is a beast, but you will get through it. First try, second try, third try, whatever, you'll get through it. And then just enjoy the rest of your life, being able to help other people and make a difference. So enjoy the ride. That's as solid as it comes. That's as solid as it comes. Kara, thank you so much. I knew it would be such a delight just spending an hour and a half with you. Again, this is a, I sure care about my nursing students, but this whole thing is just for me. I get to connect to people and learn about them and all the things. So just always a delight to interact with you and I hope you have a lovely rest of your day. Thank you, Eric. It was really good to spend time with you, my friend. And yeah, let's do it again. Let's do it again! You just heard it here first. There'll be a third episode of Kara somewhere down the line. We'll touch base and see what's new with her. I love it. Awesome.