82 - Shawna McMillan Pt 1: Who Else Gets to Fall in Love as Often as I Do?

Join nurse, nurse educator, and Sacramento, California native Honored Guest Shawna McMillan as she discusses her love of academia, a funny patient NFL story, crazy hair, using her tattoos to connect with her patients, how she got into peds oncology and why she loves it there, having long-term professional relationships with patients, her gift box, navigating the waters of healthcare grief, and more!

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Transcript

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Hello everybody. Welcome to today's episode of Feeding Our Young. I would like to mention that for the second recording in a row, I'm in a relatively stinky studio. I'm just kidding. The last episode that I recorded, I was in a stinky studio because I had to move downstairs into my 20 year old son's room. Dear Lord, help us. But today I'm back in the comfort of my own room. But that being said, I went on my 150th half marathon run this morning, third half marathon this week because I'm insane. And today's honored guest came home from the gym. I'm just kidding. We're both totally like cleaned up and ready to go, but I can't help myself if there's an opportunity to get a little moan or a chuckle out of anybody on that one. So without further ado, let me introduce Shawna McMillan. Shawna, how are you this fine morning? Hello, good morning. Thank you for having me. I am doing fantastic. Thank you. Well, I'm the one who can't thank you enough. Again, a peek behind the scenes for everyone who's listening. Shawna McMillan has the distinct dishonor of being the only honored guest so far out of 49 honored guests that I've had to cancel on. Me, I've had to cancel on her. There was a family thing that came up last week and there was no getting around it. And so I shot her an email and I just, I was devastated. I don't like for me. I like honoring my commitments, I like when commitments are being honored, and so for me to write somebody the morning of and say, hi Shawna we can't do it because we got stuff. And so it was the appropriate priority, but I still didn't like it. So thank you A, for doing this, and B, for coming back. You know, if nursing has taught us anything, it's to be flexible and to roll with the punches, right? You never know what's gonna be thrown your way and you gotta learn to adapt. And so it's all good. I'm glad you were able to take care of what you needed to take care of. And I'm just happy to be here and that our schedule's as busy as we are, finally lined up. Absolutely, and it's serendipitous. It's a beautiful day to have you on. It's the way it's supposed to be. That's where I like kind of roll. So without further ado, if you'd like to introduce yourself to everybody, start off by just giving us a little background. What degrees do you hold? When did you graduate with them? When did you graduate with them? And where did you get them from? Okay, so my first undergraduate degree was actually in health education with a focus in public health from San Francisco State University and I believe graduated in 2006, that feels like a long time ago. And I worked in the field of reproductive health and family planning. Think Planned Parenthood but not at Planned Parenthood, so. I worked at various clinics. I was a volunteer at the Women's Community Clinic, which I hold near and dear to my heart. And then before going to nursing school, I started at a clinic called New Generation Health Center, which was in San Francisco, and it was a reproductive health clinic for teens and young adults. And I started out in the outreach, which meant I was going out to various schools teaching sex ed. It was one of the most fun jobs I've ever had. Wow. And yeah, it was a blast. It was a blast. And then I went into then managing that clinic in the role of clinic coordinator. And I absolutely loved it. However, I found that the further I moved up into the world of public health, the further I got away from actually working with people. I was behind the scenes. And there were a lot of things I enjoyed about that, but I really, really missed working directly with people. And so... I spoke to some of the docs I worked with. I spoke to some of the nurse practitioners, some of the nurses I worked with, and everyone kind of agreed that nursing was the way to go. I then applied to Samuel Merritt University, which is a private nursing school out here in California. And there's a couple of different locations, but I was in Oakland at the time. I was very, very, very lucky. It was the only school I had applied to and fortunately they accepted me right out. right off first applications. was very, very fortunate. Granted, I had been doing prerequisites up until that point, as we all, most of us have to do in the world of nursing. And then the program I got into was an accelerated program. So it was a year long bachelor of nursing program. So it was bonkers. But it was an excellent school. One year, one year, yeah. I asked that because I obtained mine years after I got my associates. I went back and got my bachelor's at University of Texas at Arlington. In an online program, you can kind of go at your own pace. It wasn't, this was back in 2011, I think it was. And so there were certain things, you had to have like tests at certain times. I felt, I did mine in 14 months. And that felt brutal enough. I can't even imagine shortening that by two more months. Yeah, it was bonkers. There was a number of classes that we had to take like pharmacology and whatnot before getting into the program. So there was some classes that we had to take before the 12 months even started, but it was a whirlwind. But I will say that I believe that I got an excellent education and I had no trouble finding work afterwards. So the school has a great reputation. They do a great job. graduated in 2016. from that program and right out of nursing school, I started working in the field of pediatric hematology oncology and bone marrow transplant. And I've been doing that since and about, yeah, it wasn't even two years into nursing in which I got roped into teaching. I've doing it ever since because I love it. And at some point during my teaching career, The school in which I teach for is actually the school I went to, Samuel Merritt. I taught with other schools as well, but that's primarily the school I teach with. They wanted all of their adjunct faculty to have their master's degree. And so I was like, well, I was gonna do it anyways. And so I enrolled into Western Governors, which is where I met Eric who helped me get along in the program. He was a few classes ahead of me and we had a Facebook group and Eric was always wonderful enough to answer my questions. But I got my master's in nursing education from Western Governors and I believe I graduated in 2022, if I remember correctly. And that's been wonderful, but funny enough, halfway through the program. The school in which I teach for was like actually those of you who are teaching in pediatrics, which is what I do or those in labor and delivery don't actually have to have their masters because it's so impacted and it's so difficult to get instructors. But I was already halfway through the program that was like, I'm not going to give up now. So I was able to complete the program in three terms. So was about 18 months or so. I did take a little bit of breaks between each term. And that was more so related to my tuition reimbursement that I received from my employer that I was trying to map out the timing to maximize that opportunity. So yeah, so now I have two bachelor's degree and one master's degree. And I'd like to say I'm gonna get my PhD, but I'd have to find a affordable program or scholarships or something along those lines. Cause I don't know if I wanna do any more school debt in my life. But yeah, I do love school. I love all things academia, whether I'm a student, whether I'm teaching, it doesn't matter. I just love being in the world of academia. That's what I love about you. That's what makes us kindred spirits and that's also why, like you're already reading my mind. Like I was like, okay, are you going back for the doctorate? And that's just as much for me as anybody else because I'm in the same boat. you know, I get people that are like, well, you know, you're still, in fact, the first person I met at the university I teach at now at Gonzaga, she says, you know, she goes, Eric, you really need to consider getting your doctorate. She goes, you're still young enough. And I said, thank you for saying that first of all. But second of all, she says, you're still young enough. It's worth it. You know what I mean? She goes, not me. I've got my master's. I'm happy with it. I'm not going back for my doctor. But really, Eric, you really should go back. So my wife and I have talked about it. But it's the same story. Like, Shawna, don't, you know what mean? I'm not eager to get. It's a lot of money. And it's a lot of time. But I mean, who are we kidding? Eventually, we'll have another episode where you and I are talking about how we went back and got our doctorates in two months or something stupid like that. Just kidding, that's not possible for anyone who's wondering. We do not think that highly of ourselves. Okay, so, and I also need to throw out a disclaimer here, and nobody's gonna believe me, this is not the first time I've said this, and it's not gonna be the last. As Shawna said, we only met through that Facebook group, going back for our master's degrees through WGU, go night owls. But yet, people who have listened to this, yes, my first, you know, 13 years as a nurse was in peds oncology and my last four and half years plus has been in postpartum women's health and so it's just the overlap is uncanny because it's not like and I just We just we literally it was because we were near each other in classes and it just coincidentally happens to be my gosh. Hey you do something I've loved and you know, I mean vice versa So I just love that about you before I continue to dig in No, let's dig in a little bit more. Shawna, so you've already mentioned you're from California. You already stated before we started recording that you haven't heard previous episodes, which I'm kind of glad at this moment because being from Washington, I may or may not have said some things that are maybe less than glamorous about California. But it's a totally different world where everything causes cancer. That's what I tell people. It doesn't cause cancer up here, but it does in California. So don't don't go down there if you want to get cancer. I know and I'm so grateful you're on because I we need that Californian perspective to all the love in all the world to every state here in our beautiful country. So with that where is home for you? What is your hometown? Are you still in your hometown? Like what does that look like for you? Well, I was actually born in Portland, Oregon. So I love everything about our Pacific Northwest. I love our whole entire West Coast. So I was born in Portland, but actually came to California when I was really young, grew up in a small town called Woodland, which is right outside of Sacramento, which is where I'm at now. However, I left Woodland when I was 17 years old, moved to San Francisco, lived in San Francisco and Oakland for about 17 years. before coming back this way here in Sacramento. And so the reason I came back was at the time, I came back because my dad had passed away and had been about a year since he had passed away. And when he passed, I then started taking care of all my mom's life. And she had a stroke in 2010, a pretty massive hemorrhagic stroke. and left her with some deficits. She's completely able to live alone. ADL is totally intact. She is totally fine in that regard. However, I hire a lot of her higher functioning stuff, all her finances, all her medical appointments, things along those lines. And so I was doing it for about a year from afar. And I was like, this is so silly. I was spending every weekend, you know, all my time's off. I shouldn't say weekend. I'm gonna assume I'm kidding. didn't have weekends off. All my time off, you coming out to see my mom, to check on her, to make sure things were in order. And after about a year of that, I was talking to my husband. was like, wait, this is too silly. And then living in the Bay Area, you kind of get stuck in the sense where you're never gonna buy anything. And we were in a rent control department. It was like, well, if we stay, this is it. But also we need to move because my mom's here. And at the time, his parents were in Chico. And so they were getting older and we made a commitment to not have children, but instead raise old people. So here we are raising our old people. So we came out here to Sacramento. We have then moved his parents from Chico to assisted living here in Sacramento. I have my mom in Woodland. So we're navigating their aging process. And it's just nice that we're all close together. When I moved to Sacramento, I did so very reluctantly. Turns out I liked it a lot more than I had anticipated. It's actually really fun place. and I work for UC Davis Medical Center, which has been great. So I have no real complaints. This is not my forever home. I don't know where that might be, but at this point, this has been pretty great. So here currently in Sacramento, think home for me will somewhat always be the Bay. I felt like I kind of grew up there from 17 to mid 30s. So I think that the Bay Area will always be kind of kind of feel like home to me. that being said, yeah, I'm up for the adventure. So I'm here in Sacramento now and I'm enjoying every minute of it, but we'll see what happens next. Awesome. And bless you for caring for your older children. you know, bringing those... I feel like that circle of life is a legitimate thing where we start out in an infantile state and sometimes we end up coming back around, you know what mean, through the loss of deficits, whatever the case may be. I'm no stranger to that and it is very, very challenging. So bless you guys for doing that. I sure hope your parents, obviously I'm assuming they understand exactly what you're doing for them. and they're very grateful. And I have to ask, just briefly, into sports at all and if so, who are your teams down there? Who are your teams down there? Giants, I'm a Giants girl, but you know, I do miss some of our OG players, know, Posey and Hunter Pence and you know, Baby Giraffe and you know, I do miss some of our OG players. And I will say I was very lucky when I actually, for the longest time, I was not really ever into sports. And then I met my husband who is into every sport under the sun. And At the time, you know, our Giants were winning World Series back to back, you know, it was phenomenal. We were in the Bay at the time. And so it was really nice because he is someone who loves sports so much that he will, is more than happy to share his knowledge. So it was really easy to get into because I was able to ask every question under the sun without feeling stupid, without feeling, you know, I was curious and I'm like, well, if we're going to watch these games, I want to understand. And so, you know, he just loved to explain and answer every question. And then some, he'd start giving me history that I was like, okay, I don't need to know all of that. Yes, yes, yes. But it was a really fun time to get into baseball. so I've been a giant fan ever since. I think also as a background, as a marathon runner, everyone says baseball is slow, but I like the kind of the slow and steady kind of the... the long haul, the nuances. And so I relate a lot to baseball and the way that I was for the longest time as a marathon runner, which is how I my husband training for our first marathon. I also do enjoy a good basketball game from time to time. I wouldn't say I follow it the same way that I follow baseball. It's really tough to say. I will say Warriors again, my heart is in the Bay, but I can't not like the Kings. I'm here in Sacramento. Not to mention, purple's my color. I got the purple hair, purple everything. I can't hate on the Kings. As far as the NFL goes, my husband hasn't won me over there yet. He's a huge Niners fan. And at this point, I also love football season despite not being a football fan because it means he watches the game and usually alongside him watching the game, I read my book. uninterrupted. we kind of have this symbiotic relationship with when football is happening. it works out for all of us. So I'd say Giants first and foremost, and then followed by basketball and you can't go wrong with the Warriors or Kings and then NFL. I'll support the Niners by default just because it makes my husband happy. But you know, I really, I really am not that invested. I appreciate that answer. I was raised and baptized a baseball guy. My mom was very much like, you I grew up in the Seattle area, so of course it's all Mariners, which just means a lifetime of depression. But even when it's tantalizing, like, you know, we're not even going to talk about 2001. You know what mean? Like, that was our year. That was the time. Finally, my guys. You know, you got Griffey, you got Buhner, you got both Martinez's, you got all that. Well, no, by that time, I Tino had left. But yeah, I mean, all of it. I was like... this is it, they're gonna get their rings. That was that 116 win season. And I'm like, man, they're mowing everybody over. And then 9/11 happened and that changed the whole world. so, yeah, it's, being a Mariners fan just sucks. But that, especially current days, but I'm gonna leave that one alone, because that's not what this podcast is about. Second of all, the reason why I asked was because I was a huge Sonics fan, and then my Sonics were ripped away from me. so the team that got me back into basketball. were the Warriors. And particularly that pre Kevin Durant, you've got, know, Klay Thompson was coming into his own and you had, course, the amazing Steph Curry and Draymond Green. And that Trinity, that Holy Trinity on that team, just, it made basketball fun again for me. Like to watch how they, yeah, so selfless and so skilled and so everything. So I kind of adopted them and that's as close as I can come to that. Now, as for football, we're not gonna talk about that because you're the family that if you're in my, if I walk into your patient room and it's you guys, my standard cut speech for my patients that say anything like that or are wearing anything like that, I say, we here at Where I Work respect every individual and we're gonna care for you regardless of gender, orientation, religion, or football team. And so yeah, we're gonna leave the 49ers there do wait, wait, I have a funny story about that. I had a young lady who I took care of, the bone marrow transplant unit and this young lady, phenomenal. She's doing great now. She's a beautiful young lady, but hardcore Green Bay Packers fan. I'm talking like head to toe gear. But the thing that I loved about her every now and again, players from like the Raiders would come like local, know, cause I was in Oakland at the time. And before she would let anyone come into her room, she would make sure she was decked out in her Green Bay Packers gear. She represented no matter what. like, they'd be like, so and so from the Raiders is here to say hi. And she'd be like, hold up, put on all her gear before. She would be so excited to meet the players, but that wasn't gonna stop her from representing her team. And I just loved it. It was the cutest thing ever. Yeah, was really sweet to see. She represented no matter what. I loved that about my peds onc population. Same thing. mean, was like we had one Green Bay Packers fan and that, I mean, that whole family, like it was like decked out anytime they came in, anytime they were admitted, anytime they were there for a stretch of time. And I, you know, we gave each other crap all the time about it, but okay. Well, in this podcast about nursing, you know, we're 20 minutes in and barely talked about it. So let me, let's pull this around and let's see. I could care less. I love talking with you. let's, I'm selfishly enjoying this time. I got to honor your time, but we're going to probably bump right up against it if that's okay with you. All right. So with that, what are the three words that you would use to describe nursing school? fast, exciting, and overwhelming. I love it. We'll talk about those at the end as we always do. With that, our new opening question. What are three of your favorite songs in your life right now? so I think my all time favorite song that just makes me happy every time I hear it is a song called Prickly Pear from Portico Quartet. it's just such a beautiful song. and it just, it just makes my heart just so happy. Like I want the world to stop and I just want to listen. there is another song called Tenemos Todo from Mathieu Des Longchamps And it's just this really sweet song. it's in Spanish. I'm bilingual. And it's just this song about we have everything. We already have everything. And then last but not least, there's a song called Queen Bee from Taj Mahal. And it was one of my husband and I's first song. And it just reminds us, it reminds me of our relationship when we first met. And so we've been together now 13 years. And so that is one of our songs. We have a handful of songs, but that I would say is the first one. So those three, I would say no matter What I'm doing, whenever those songs come on, it's like, that's it, we're gonna listen to those songs. don't press forward, we don't skip those songs. Everybody stop what you're doing at the moment. I need this moment, I'm listening to this. And that's what I love about this is like this question in particular, because it's like right there, you had your three songs and you also had the reason why. And it's because music is just so powerful. So everybody give those three songs a listen, because I know that I sure am. All right, Shawna, a little bit more about you. We'll get into some nursing stuff here. When you're not consumed with teaching, learning. doing all of the things, taking care of parents. What is it that gets you going? What are your hobbies? What are your interests? And also, if you don't mind talking about it, I love your tattoos. And we're talking, again, this is not a video podcast, so for anyone who's listening, you'll see her profile picture. But beyond that, I mean, we're talking tattoos, just beautiful, sides of the head. I just love it, I love it. So give us some background on that if you don't mind. So first a couple of hobbies, thing my favorite, my all time favorite thing in the world to do is probably read. I'm an avid reader. I love to read. That's I can, I just finished two books this week and anytime I get to the last like 20 % of a book, whether it's an, love audio books. love reading books. I usually actually am doing, I usually have two going at the same time. I'll have an audio book and a book that I'm actually reading. And Anytime I get to the last 20%, I can't focus on anything else in life until I finish it. Aside from reading, I'm an avid gym goer. I love lifting weights. I was a marathon runner for a long time. That's how I met my husband, but have since transitioned to doing a lot more lifting. I still run, but just not the same distance as I did once upon a time. And I love my dogs and hanging out with my dogs. My dogs are my favorites. I do... as much as I can with them, even just simple walks, hanging out the house, my dogs are the best. I'm a crazy obsessed dog lady and if I could, I'd have a dog rescue. As far as the tattoos, boy, when I started getting tattooed, I had no intention of being someone who's as heavily covered as I am. It wasn't that I set out that way, it just kinda happened. now, know, legs and chest and arms and side of my head, the head is fairly recent. I've done crazy things with my hair throughout my life. I have no real attachment to my hair. For me, it's just fun. I color it right now, it's purple. been purple for quite some time. It's my favorite color, but I've done other colors. I've had most of it shaved. Right now, the sides are shaved. And so I had the sides shaved and I was like, well, if I have my head shaved, I might as well get my head tattooed. At this rate, mean, there's no going back. And at this point, I'm probably never gonna look conservative. So I was like, well, we might as well. We might as well lean into this. so, yeah, I will say it's my most painful tattoo the sides of my head. boy. Not a lot of padding up there in between the skull and the skin. Like that's why I just, I can't even, I can't fathom it. I am a pansy by nature. For the longest time I didn't have a tattoo. I'm not gonna get into my stories. I finally got my first one when my wife and I were on our 20th. And it was a sentimental matching tattoo, blah, blah, blah. But I was like, and I have a tattoo, and it's right on that upper arm, right? And then I have a second tattoo. on the other upper arm and guess what? I've covered both the least painful spots of my body and I'm good. So God bless you for that head tattoo. But anyway, continue. Yeah, no, the fun thing is, like being that I work in pediatrics, you because people often ask me, you know, is it challenging to get a job or how does it, you know, I will encourage anyone who's getting into the field to perhaps wait, wait till you figure out where you land, what kind of population you're going to be working with and where you're working. I am in California in Sacramento working with pediatrics. So, and I started out in the Bay, so fairly liberal as it is, as far as, you know, appearance goes. But working with kids is such a different story. Kids don't care. Half the kids have, their parents are tattooed, right? And so half the kids I work with, know, most of their parents have some sort of tattoo. So for these kids, it's nothing new. And a lot of them like it. I have this really cool ocean scene on my leg with a huge shark and kids love the shark. And so that one, that one, the kids are always really excited about. So. For me, it totally doesn't interrupt what I do for work, but I can see is how if you were working somewhere, maybe not as liberal in appearance as say California is, or maybe with an elderly population versus a younger population, granted times are changing, but we still have a lot of room to grow. So I always encourage people just to wait a little bit before they decide to go, I guess I should say super obvious or super visible. until they kind of land where they want to land. And that's not just for nursing, that goes for any profession. Just make sure you kind of know what you're getting yourself into. Because it can, in some situations, hold you back. Yeah, but I love, I absolutely, cannot love it more the idea of those tattoos being a connection between you and your patients. Yeah, yeah. I love when kids ask me, do yours come off in the bath? Because I have kids, know, I have one kiddo who he loves his tattoos and that's kind of like his reward for when he does anything hard, any kind of pokes or things like that that happen. He or any kind of shots he has to get or, you know, whatever the case may be, he always gets a new rub on tattoo. So, And he comes in, he'll tell me, I got this one for getting my port access. I got this one for getting my new last shot. Or I got this one for getting my sticker changed. And so he'll have, and he loves all the superheroes. So most of his tattoos are all superheroes. But anyhow, so he loves it. And sometimes he'll ask me what I got mine for. It's pretty cute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And one last question before we move into your nursing journey. But you mentioned briefly that you met your husband on a marathon. So now I'm like, my running mind is going, hmm. So either you guys were like, you just happened to meet while running. What is he at the volunteer table? Was he like an organizer? You're stopping to get some water. And he's like, baby, you're amazing. Give me your number. How did this happen? It was actually, we were both independently running on our own. And then I had done a number of half marathons independently. And so I got this like Groupon for joining the San Francisco Marathon Training Group. And a part of this Groupon was not only this training group, but then you get entry into the marathon. And I figure, well, this is, know, good as time as ever. I've done a number of half marathons like Sure, let's do a full marathon. And I'm not so much, yeah. not knowing that you're gonna meet your future life partner, but anyways, sorry. I I know, it was great. So I joined this marathon group. I also at the time had signed up for my first Tough Mudder. I signed up by myself. I'm not someone who's not gonna do something just because I don't have anyone to do it with. At the time I didn't have a running community. So I joined this running group by myself. I signed up for the Tough Mudder by myself. And when our running group had this Facebook page, similarly how our school had a Facebook page or our class or what have you. I had written on the Facebook page, hey, is anyone else doing the Tough Mudder? I was like, look, I have this brand new group of running community who could potentially be friends. So happens my now husband was signed up for Tough Mudder at the same day and the same wave time. And so that's kind of how it started. And so we decided that we were gonna go to the race together, but before then we had met at track practice and started chatting and just became friends and, you know. spent a lot of time together because the running group was multiple runs and track practice, all that good stuff. anyways, so we met through that training group. I have since done a number of marathons together. Neither one of us are running distance at the moment. But yeah, it's great way to meet somebody with similar interests, right? Go out in the world and find someone with a similar interest. Well, and you get to see them on their highs, their lows, you know, I mean, that's, you my wife and I totally different story. But in the In the environment in which we kind of got to know each other better, you know, you spend a lot of time together and you see the highs, the lows. And I highly recommend anyone who's looking for their special someone, whoever that is. You know, it's spend time together doing the things you enjoy, doing whatever, but make sure that you're seeing each other at your best and your worst. Because it is easy to put on that mask, that best face and all the things and then you find out some pretty not so fun things down the road. So just see each other your best and worst and you're like, yeah, alright, I like you, let's go. It's that simple, right? my gosh. Okay, so legitimately, Let's talk about nursing now. So we've already established kind of the areas of nursing that you've worked in. So if you could expand on that a little bit more, why did you choose to work in Peds Oncology and why do you love it? How long have you been doing it? Remind everyone and then why did you choose it and why do you love it? I've been doing peds oncology close to eight years now. I remember when I was, so when I went into nursing school, I knew I wanted to kind of stay with a younger population during most of my work in reproductive health and family planning, focused a lot on teens and young adults. I really loved the teen and young adult population. It's by far one of my favorite populations. But I didn't know exactly what that would look like in terms of nursing. Well, during my nursing rotation, excuse me, my pediatric rotation, during my nursing clinicals, I was on a general PEDS med-surg floor. However, my clinical instructor had worked at the floor above, which was the PEDS hematology oncology bone marrow transplant unit. And she had asked, hey, does anyone want to do a shadow shift up there? And I was like, I do. Like, I want to see as much as I possibly can. I think there's something to be said about going to nursing school a little bit older, since I'm a second career nurse. is I was definitely not shy. I had had a career prior. I was ready to jump in, right? And so I was the first one to be like, I want to go up there. And the first thing I noticed and what I fell in love with was the relationship between the nurses and the patients. absolutely loved these kids, loved their nurses. And it was such a different experience than being on like a general Peds med-surg floor where appropriately, These kids are afraid of everyone in scrubs, right? As they should be. They've never been sick before. They've never been in a hospital before. You know, so, you know, it's totally understandable. They should absolutely be nervous and scared. And so are their parents. But it was so different being on the Peds, heme-onc BMT floor where these kids, like, were the exact opposite. They didn't fear their nurses at all. They were hugging on their nurses and, you know, playing games with the nurses and inside jokes and all kinds. I just, that relationship I instantly fell in love with. And so I knew that that's the kind of relationship I wanted to have as a nurse. And this is one of the questions I often ask my students when they're unsure about what kind of nursing they want to go into is thinking about the kind of relationships you want to have with your patients. So I love the long -term. I like to get to know you, your favorite color, your cat's name, your sibling's name, what your favorite subject is in school. I want to know it all, right? Your adolescents, your boyfriends, your girlfriends, what... What have you, your, you know, what colleges you're applying to. I love getting into all of the nuances. And I love those long -term relationships. And that's what really drove me to that world. And what I also like is that it's a higher acuity than say, for example, a med-surg floor, but not high, so high acuity where kiddos are intubated and sedated. That to me, like I just, it's the perfect middle ground of higher acuity, but I get those long -term relationships and it just checks all of those boxes. And I love it so much coming next month. I'm actually going to a wedding for a patient of mine who I treated when he was an adolescent and now he's getting married. And I don't normally go to all the things I'm invited to because it's just not practical. There's a lot of reasons why that's not, but there are certain situations, there are certain times in which I have to say yes. And not only because of the issue I have with that family, but also it's... from a selfish perspective, it reminds me why I do what I do. And so it being able to see him, you know, get married and, you know, be in this chapter of his life kind of helps me during the times when it doesn't go as well when things aren't looking as good. And I get to think about, you know, okay, the times that it does. And it kind of gives me that strength to keep showing up and to keep, you know, doing everything I can during some these kids and their family's darkest days is when I can think about kind of the other side of it as well. And so I will say going to this wedding is, is, is there's a bit of selfishness involved that, that, you know, I will carry through to kind of help remind me why I do what I do. But for me, it's those relationships, man, these kids, I love these kids. And now I'm in an outpatient world where we do infusion and I love it. It's such a different side of oncology than the inpatient side. But as a bonus, we also get to see what we call off -service kids. So kiddos who aren't coming in for chemotherapies, but they're coming in for other infusions from different disciplines, GI, endocrine, genetic stuff, rheumatology, you name it, just various different disciplines. But some of these kids we see for years, I mean, I'm talking about from little to young adulthood, and you get to watch these kids grow. They're coming in every week, every other week, once a month for their various infusions throughout the course of their lifetime. And again, it just feeds that like long -term relationship. I love seeing these kids. grow and their families. you know, I joke that I see some of these kids and families more than I see some of my own friends and families, you know, so it for me, that's peds oncology. It's it's those relationships is getting to know them and their families. I love I love those. I I would have such a hard time on a unit like the emergency department where they come in for a few minutes and then, you know, not few minutes, but you know, for in my compared to what I do, it feels like a few minutes, right? You have just such a short period of time with them and they're either discharged into the floor and I would constantly, I just, would, have attachment issues apparently, and I would have a hard time not knowing what was going on with themself. peds onc that's where it's at for me. Hmm you you make me miss it for sure Not enough to go back to it mind you But you definitely make me miss it because I loved all those things that you mentioned, you know You have the I call them, you know, the long -term flyer the frequent flyers And you just you build this rapport with these patients which then leads to I guess a natural follow-up question that people are gonna want to know and that is how do you Work on especially, know those self -proclaimed attachment issues and getting to know someone so tightly and you've kind of touched on this a little bit but when things don't go the way we want them to despite fighting the good fight how do you navigate grief on those waters of the the cases that are not the victories we seek? Yeah, that's a tough one. it kind of, it's challenging, I think in the world of oncology, more often than not, we see it coming. So there's a little bit of time to prepare. That doesn't mean it hurts any less, but it's definitely different than a sudden death. you kind of, with being able to see it coming, you kind of see the direction of where it's going. You get a lot of time to kind of prep, you get a lot of time. to kind of talk to the family. You get a lot of time to spend time with the kids. And sometimes kids will tell you their own, you know, people think that they don't know what's going on and that's absolutely not true. They oftentimes are very well aware of the direction things are going in and kind of being able to provide a space for them to talk and share their experiences. I have a box that I save all of the things that I've been gifted. or drawn or things like that from families that I'm really close to and saving all those items sometimes when I'm kind of hitting a rough patch or just kind of a period of heartbrokenness, kind of going through that box and going through the various cards and trinkets and key chains from travels they've been on or bracelets and necklaces or pictures they've drawn me or whatever the case may be, going through that box sometimes kind of. reminds me and uplifts my spirit or doing things like I said, going to this wedding, but in the actual moment of first and foremost, my focus is on the family and patient, right? That's my first focus. But when there is a loss, unfortunately, my husband also works in healthcare. And when I experienced a loss that is completely devastating, he kind of knows that I'm gonna come home. I have... You know, I get my comfort foods and comfort drinks and I watch a comfort show and I will intermittently ugly cry and you know, he will listen to me tell stories about them. And then the moment passes and I'll get back to my snacks and shows and then a couple minutes later, it might repeat itself with another pausing of the episode and another ugly cry and some more stories. And I kind of. have an evening of it and then I go to bed and I get up and go back to work and do it all over again. But I kind of have a night of decompressing and I'm very, very fortunate that my husband working in the world of healthcare completely understands what I do and provides me that space and kind of is ready to go when he knows I need that night of comfort food, comfort shows and ugly cries. But I give myself that, you know, those few hours, I give myself that space. and then I jump back into it the next day. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. I had the honor one time of being able to speak at one of my patient's funerals. The family, yeah, can't even, like you talking about that reminded me distinctly of that and everybody hearing that might be like, my gosh, you guys are like, how do you, you know what I mean? Like, how does that not wreck you? And it does, it absolutely wrecks you. But it's just the... It's one of those things I like to file under the beautiful parts of nursing that sound horrific. And they really are. At times they're absolutely horrific. Like you said, I can't count on the number of two hands how many times I ugly cried over the death of a patient or new diagnoses or things of that nature. to be able to... The way that I always describe it to people is, of course I get my heart broken, but who else gets to fall in love as often as I do? And that's the only way that I can sum it up is I absolutely do get my heart broken. No doubt about it. can't do this kind of work without getting your heart broken. But at the same time, I get to fall in love every single day over and over again, more times than most people would ever be able to experience. Those moments I get my heart broken are absolutely worth the tenfold times that I get to fall in love on any given day. And so that's the only way that I could describe it. And you can't have that love without that heartbreak. I mean, you can absolutely, and that we've talked about, well, not on this podcast, but I've talked about often in the context of grief. Yeah, you can absolutely shut yourself down, close that heart off, and it will protect you from heartbreak to a certain extent. But what you lose with that is the ability to relate, the ability to love, the ability to connect. And it's is it worth the trade off? For some it is. And I won't judge you, but I'm going to tell you right now, man, your life is so much more enriched when you open yourself to those opportunities. So, OK, you know, this is a natural springboard point. We're going to just I'm looking at the clock. I'm looking at you. And I know there's still a lot to unpack. We're still going to get done before your scheduled time is done and before the next honored guest comes strolling in to the studio, virtually speaking. So if it's alright with you, we're gonna make you a double episode right here on the spot. All right, let's do it. I like it. let's go! Okay everybody, as you know, I'm gonna say it, because I've said it before. I I I The podcast isn't even that old. You're like, you're the 49th honored guest I've had in the studio, and I'm like, you know, I've almost got like a drinking game in mind that can happen with this stupid podcast, with me saying, I'll catch you on the flip side when it's a double episode, I say it all the time. Or, I love it, I love it, I love it, or, you know, that's awesome. Or - I'm just like, how many times are you to hear Eric say this or that? Please don't play a drinking game when you're reading this, or listening to this, because you're not going to farewell. Okay, so with that, Shawna I'll catch you on the flip side.