85 - Kate Joy Pt 1: Still Finding the Joy in Everyday Life

Join nurse, nurse educator, and Wisconsin native Honored Guest Kate Joy as she joy-fully chats about how she balances bedside nursing with student education, being a nurse volunteer at Burning Man (and what collaborative care looked like there), her love of audio books, her two unique first times in hospitals, alternate universes, her continued ability to care being a tenured PICU nurse, unique qualities of grief, how not everyone is meant to be a nurse, putting her passion and energy into her classroom, and more!

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Transcript

0:01

Howdy do everybody, welcome to this episode of the Feeding Our Young Podcast. So, as I often do, I went on a run this morning before recording with today's honored guest. The season is coming rapidly to an end, and why would I want to talk about that right now? I don't know, other than the fact that our honored guest today that's with us also enjoys running. I don't know that I would say she's quite as loony-toons about it as I am. As I literally, I sat down with an honored guest two days ago, ran a half prior to that, and today ran a half this morning, and I've got four more to do. I'm crossing four more off, and then I've reached everything that I could ever possibly have dreamed this year and more. But who cares about that? This is not what this is about. In fact, What today's episode... is about is so many amazing things and I am so so excited to introduce today to Dade to Dade okay so I did run today everybody so just understand I'm learning English right along with many others I'll get it out eventually today's honored guest without further ado before I screw this up anymore is the illustrious Kate Joy Kate how the heck are you today Hey, Eric, I'm very excited to be here. Nervous-cited. Yeah, stole that from My Little Pony. I love that! And my son is gonna love that too. He's a brony, but that's another story for another time. He's probably gonna be thrilled that I actually included that here. That's gonna be fantastic. So before I continue on, Kate, did you run this morning? How far did you run? Three miles! And you run on the daily, is that correct? Yes, I just do, if I can do a mile, I do a mile, but it gets me moving and keeps me in my routine. Yep. it. And the legs, the knees, no issues. How long have you been running? gosh, probably since college it's what's kind of kept me sane. So over 20 years. Yeah. About 20 years. 20 years. She went to college 20 years ago, everybody. I'll let you do the math on that one. But no, that being said, I tell people this is conversation between Kate and I, and you guys just get to listen to it on the happenstance. So I'm asking questions that I want to know, just as my own personal inquiring minds. So. I also rumor had it that semi-recently you went somewhere. We're going to talk about that in a second, but before we do, go ahead and introduce yourself to the people, particularly what degrees do you hold, when did you graduate with them, and where are you from? Okay, hi, I'm Kate Joy. That's my full real name. And I'm, I get asked that a lot. Yep, that's my name. Even go, yeah. So I'm from the Northwoods of Wisconsin. I like to say the middle of nowhere, but pretty close to the upper peninsula. And I went to college in Wisconsin. So four year college near Milwaukee called Columbia College of Nursing. And That was 2003 that I graduated. Yep, I've hit that 20 year mark. I know. And then I did get my master's mostly online with an onsite mentor. And that was through Aspen University in Colorado. So I have my master's in nursing. Very cool. And if you don't mind my asking, how long ago did you pick that little puppy up? 2000, let's see, I graduated in 2015, 16, somewhere in there. Awesome. Very, very cool. Well, congratulations on getting your masters. As everybody who listens here knows, we do not necessarily, we advocate for those that want to get their masters to get their masters, but you don't need your masters to be an amazing nurse. However, you do need your masters to do what you do. What is it that you do? I'm a nurse educator at SCC, Spokane Community College, and I'm full-time faculty there. That's my main gig now. I love it and I cannot, I'm a little biased, cause go Bigfeet cause I'm a Bigfoot myself, as clearly established on this podcast. Graduated with my two year degree there. There's a couple staff members still there from my time there, which is just amazing to me. But you hold a position that hopefully someday I get to join you in. And that's just a little plug for anyone at SCC who's listening to this. I'm just kidding. No, no, no, this is not. self-promotion time. This is I'm excited to talk with Kate time and Kate is an amazing instructor at SCC. I cannot wait for you to gather her energy through this episode or episodes plural as we'll see where we end up going with this as we always find out. Kate, how do I know you? Where did I meet you? So I met you when you floated from Peds Onc into the PICU. I also still dabble in pediatric intensive care. And so I was full-time nights then when you were floating over there helping with some patients. And it really, I remember you and hearing your story and chatting with you, but you really stick out with one particular patient that has impacted me, which I won't go into specifics, but I know you know. And after I took care of her in PICU, she was in pedsonc for a while, a really special case. And I just loved your heart and that really stood out to me. So yeah, I'll never forget her. I just, I'll never forget her either. And I don't think anyone who knows her will ever forget her. And so, sorry everybody, that's the one point you don't get details on. We are pretty, you know, protective of our patients and HIPAA and all the things, no, that's where I remember meeting you. I remember loving your heart and you were one of those nurses that many of the Pick You brethren and sisterin that, you know, I'd talk with and. and that kind of that mutual, don't know how you do what you do. You know, I don't know how you do what you do. And, you know, we're kind of like those goofy gophers on Looney Tunes. For anybody that doesn't know that reference, look it up and find a cartoon that has the goofy gophers in them because they're amazing. They're very, they're usually very polite. After you know, after you. So, you know, oftentimes, you know, we often would say, I don't know how you do what you do. Well, I don't know how you do what you do. And that's really one of the cruxes of this whole podcast, right? You find your niche. you just dive right in, however long that takes. You find your niche, you dive right in, and then grow your ability within that niche. Now, Kate, do you still practice bedside, or are you 100 % in the education realm now? I'm really fortunate that our union has a place for nurse educators where I can be supplemental, which is 16 hours a month. So I nabbed that right away when I left because I still love PICU and I didn't really leave because I didn't love it. But this opportunity was better for my family. I didn't know I was going to become a nurse educator. I kind of was like, try this. Okay. So I was like, I'm going to keep my foot in the door just in case. So I'm really grateful because I'm able to bring a lot of the bedside changes. I still go out on the PICU skills stuff and make sure that my skills are up to date. So I'm giving the students the most up to date information of evidence-based practice, throwing out those big words, but it's true. I really love that I still have a flavor for bedside and what they have to go through too. Yeah. And you are one that doesn't... and that's... You're literally living the dream that I have. I mean, how are we all never satisfied, right? Like, don't like... People are like, well, why aren't you... Like, you do so much already. Can't you just be, you know, like... No, there's always something new, something different, something that you're reaching out for, right? I also... Normally I would have muted that, but I'm gonna warn you, listening audience, you're gonna listen to the very special over age 40 episode of Feeding Our Young, as Kate and I both talked about the fact that we've got for different reasons we have to clear our throats. Me, I just had a delightful six inch spicy Italian Subway sandwich. And so I have what I call the old man throat clearing. Kate, what's your story? I just had a chest cold and you know, it lasts forever. I hardly ever get sick. So when I get sick, it's very, it's kind of mild, but it just, it's there. So I'm like, being productive. we're gonna work to, productive literally, we're going to work to outdo each other on our throat clearing. The contest is on starting now. Alright, so enough of all the intro stuff except for that one other thing I wanted to touch on which is that not only do you practice bedside, not only are you an amazing nurse educator, But you've recently come back from somewhere where you were able to practice, and where was that, and tell us a little bit more about that. my gosh. I remember. Okay. all right. So that's actually really the proper intro because that's how I felt telling people what I was doing because there's so many stigmas behind it. But I had the opportunity to go to Burning Man. And if you don't know what that is, Google it, but read the website because there's a lot of great information there. there's a lot of stigmas with Burning Man that I had. you know, just kind of grown up thinking about or living in California from what I knew was very minimal. And I was blown away. I was able to go be a nurse volunteer there, which was an incredible experience. I highly recommend it. It was amazing. And I would like to say what Burning Man, should I say what Burning Man is? I'll just tell you. So Burning Man is a collaboration effort of People, artists that come together and they have built a society. It's a really old, well, I guess 80s isn't that old. I'm really dating myself now. It's, yeah, it started a while ago and it's grown. So it's about 70,000 people come together in the desert of Nevada, build an entire city. And it's a giving culture and it's got principles on there. One is like self radical self-reliance. Being a participant in this experience, being able to receive if there's gifts. So there's no monetary exchange there. And it's a lot of artists, a lot of music built up of all these little tiny towns that all are giving something different, whether it be poutine at midnight or you know, their gift of massaging because they're massage therapist or whatever. I was able to serve from the medical standpoint, which was super fun. I loved, I loved volunteering for that. Amazing. And open the door to that for us a little bit more. Share what you can and what you wish to share. What does that look like volunteering at Burning Man? Okay, so I was part of a camp of, well, it was about 60 people this year. There's, like I said, thousands of camps. And what I liked about this camp is it was mostly EMTs, firefighters, doctors, nurses, therapists, mental health experts. And we are required to pick up a number of shifts. So we'd go to one of the three medical tents. basically, No matter what our expertise was, I worked with collaborated with so many different people from all over the United States. We're all on the same level because we're not on Nevada's license. So we're first aid caring for people, but we could rely on each other's expertise, which was really fun. And so I'm serving next to, you know, a pediatrician and an ER doc and, you know, an ophthalmologist and we're all coming together to take care of anyone that comes through that needs some help. Wow, you, you, yeah. And do you see a lot of like, is it mostly like just injuries or, know, mean, what do you see doing that? A lot. so there is actually a hospital, that's built there as well called Rampert. So if there's anything serious, we can move them into the hospital who can get them to Reno if needed. And they can do more things like x-rays, blood tests, all that we're doing first aid, kind of the triage bit of it. It's a lot of like bike injuries. I got sand in my eye. I'm super dehydrated. my foot hurts. got a blister, you know, basics. It's kind of really in the moment deciding what kind of thing you need to do. And I don't get to do that as much anymore. I'm kind of given a full report on a patient, their full history, all the labs and x-rays I could ever want. So it kind of brought me back to my school nursing days. And I just enjoyed meeting people, talking with them, hearing their stories. It was incredible. Yeah, I could do a whole podcast on that place. Let me tell you what. That's what I'm talking about. That's what was like, was like, just tell us more. Give us details. Because it's not often you meet someone who gets to volunteer at Burning Man's. just a nice inside story, a little inside scoop for those that wanted to know. So for those that can't tell, the voice just keeps, there we go. All right, here we go. There we go. Let's keep going. Before we, this is all just the intro. so we're officially speaking anyway. So before we jump out of this topic, I have two remaining questions for you. First of all, as I ask everybody both these questions now, what are the three words you chose to describe nursing school? Well, I gave this some thought. There's a lot that could be said. Artistic, inspiring, and builds resilience. And I made those words specifically to nursing school, not nursing necessarily. I love it, and we're gonna find out why. I also, I can't wait to find out the perspective both as a previous nursing student and as a nursing instructor. I have a hunch you've got a little bit to share on on both of those. the other fun question, do you have three favorite songs in life right now? If so, what are they? If not, why not? that is an evil question because I do love music. I have a lot of favorite songs, but, Pretty new in my life, I would say the last maybe year and a half, I started listening to audio books. I would put on audio books and completely space out immediately. So it's become kind of a training of my brain and now it's kind of an insatiable thing. I love listening to books. I had to have like the really high techno music to work out hard and now I just, kind of don't care about my pace. I just like listening to the book and kind of getting lost in the author's thoughts. So I'm gonna give you books instead. Let's go! The special three audio book episode, edition of the Kate Joy episode. And I haven't given this really any thought. I'm literally going off my Libby app of what I recently listened to. So this is just kind of off the top of my head. My easy to say is Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer. This book is about plants and that may sound boring to you, but it's very exciting to me. And I loved her. botanist perspective as well as her Native American perspective on stuff. So that was cool. I just finished Fast Like a Girl, which has a lot of really good pathophysiology on the women's cycle, which I think all of our girls need to know more about, a lot more. And that was about fasting and how to kind of coincide that with your cycle where you're at and different ages. And then I've been listening to a lot of mysteries. So could just scroll through and I I don't know. This one, this isn't exactly a mystery, but it's called Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered. That's a fun book you could finish in a day. So I kind of intermingle it. Yeah. Yeah. there, just the title alone, I'm like, okay, no, I gotta check that out. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. It's good advice, really. But that implies, though, that someone is sexy to begin with, so we gotta, you know, it's applicable to some out there. We'll just leave that where that's at. It's actually just two comedians talking and it's pretty entertaining and thought provoking, so recommended. I like both of those things, so that's great. Wonderful. Well then let's just continue to get to know a little bit more about you then. What would you like to share about your family, Kate? let's see. Well, most of my family still lives in Wisconsin, so I visit them when I can. I absolutely love going back to Wisconsin, but I love Washington more. So this is where I am. So my family is very small here. My son is 18. He's at WSU, freshman there. And my daughter is 16. She has just started Running Start in her junior year of high school. If you don't know what Running Start is, it's a program in Washington where you can go to the community college or our local college called Eastern. And by the end of your high school career, have both a high school diploma and an AA. So pretty cool. On the state's dime. So she's giving that a go and it's going very well. So she gets to come to school with me. It's great. So for those that were wondering, yes, Kate did start having kids when she was about 12 or 13. So that's the only do the math. There you go. Well, I'm so glad you mentioned that because you're leading right into the next direction. So it's like, well, OK, you travel from Wisconsin to here when you can and back and forth. And Spokane is your home currently. So then where else have you traveled? How often do you get to travel back home? What does that look like? any particular favorite places you've traveled. boy. so I was a Wisconsin girl up through college, of course. And then I met someone in college and, someone being my children's dad and we, he was a academic and was already excited about traveling. during college, well, this was kind of a little bit of a tangent, I guess, but I was supposed to, I was supposed to go to Africa for a month and did like a One of my electives was on African culture and 9-11 happened a month before we left. So I had saved all this money, was ready to go. That trip was obviously canceled. So we were like, what are we going to do? And he's like, well, I'm scuba certified. Do you want to get scuba certified and go to the Caribbean? I'm like, yep. So we did. And so I don't know how we afforded it as college students. I really don't, but we ended up scuba diving several times. diving our brains out as young people, pre-kids of course. So that was where traveling really started for me. Well, I guess you're gonna have to bring back when I was 14, I went to Ecuador, because that's kind of my medical start. But I'll come back to that. yeah, and then when he, graduated, we went to London where we served as missionaries there for three years. He went to be get his master's degree from School of Oriental and African Studies and we were there three years. That's where I my kids. Yeah. And so we traveled all over Europe over there too. So I have definitely done my traveling in my twenties, just in a roundabout way. That's amazing and I'm slightly envious. I know I've said it before with other guests who have traveled. That's outstanding. But what's this little Ecuador thing that kind of happened in between? yeah. gosh. There's so much to unpack. So Ecuador was probably, Ecuador must've been my first real trip outside of United States. That was a missions trip as well to Quito, Ecuador and Shell, Ecuador. And we built a playground for an orphanage, which was amazing. And we got to visit a couple of hospitals, one in the jungle, one in Quito. That was probably like, I think that's my first time ever in a hospital. other than when my grandma died. When my grandma died, died of pneumonia and I literally fainted on top of her as she, yeah. Yeah, sure did. I was 10 years old, peed my pants, everything, the whole thing. That was my first time in an ICU, first time medical stuff. So look how far I've come, folks. my gosh, yeah, fairly safe to say you don't faint and pee your pants anymore in high stress situations. Good, good, good, good. well aware that nursing students do. So I'm, I'm guarding them. So Ecuador kind of put me in like a, Hey, these hospitals are really interesting. Maybe I want to do something medical someday. And then that thought thought was fleeting. That was 15 years old. I didn't really give it a thought again for a while. So then not giving that thought, giving it a thought again for a while, where does nursing come into play for you? How does that crystallize for you as something you want to do? I haven't, I don't know. I've given this thought. I went to school, I loved English and composition in high school. So I actually got accepted to school for communications and public relations. I wonder what my life would be like if that's what I had stuck with. I really think about that sometimes. So nursing is hard. So my counselor, freshman year was like, you should take nursing 101, just give it a whirl. I'm like, okay, that's cool. And I changed my major very quickly to, to be a nurse. And here I am. I don't know anyone in my past that I don't, that I can think of. I'm probably insulting somebody that inspired me as a nurse or anything really other than, I don't know. It was a really, I'm lucky, honestly, it was a smart decision. but that counselor, he's the one that was like, you know, just take nursing 101. We're going to need nurses. It'll be a great job market to try it. Interesting. And based on what you're saying, I think I know the answer to the following question, but first of all, like that just, I'm still stuck in the whole Deadpool and Wolverine, like I was looking forward to that movie this summer, all the things, and I'm still stuck in that MCU multiverse thing, so I still have these fleeting thoughts of time to time, know, like some Eric Miller out there that's doing this instead of that. So there's some Kate Joy out there, some version of you that is in communications and public relations, and who knows what you did. probably. Probably, and I'm probably a guest on your podcast for something stupid I did, I don't know. Episode number two, is that where we're We're just going to just flip the script? this is going to be fun. Okay, I like this idea. Okay, all right, so, okay, this is what we're to do. We're going to, we're going to, okay, let's ask the questions we need to ask of Kate, and then, We're gonna flip the script here and now. We're gonna do a second episode where Kate is the host and I'm just gonna be some schmo that tries to answer her questions. Okay, with that then. No, but so the question I was gonna ask was then of course, I'm assuming there isn't any part of you, I mean maybe a small part, I don't know. Do you ever look back on that time and go, gosh, do you look at it long? I don't know how to phrase it without doing a disservice to what you are and who you are now. Other than, do you ever look at it with like a past longing like, man I kind of wish I would have gone down this less maybe less difficult road, you know, that sort of thing? I've had those moments, yes. I think man, people's lives are in my hands. How did I get into this role? This is so hard. And people's lives are in my hands through my students too, because it's my job to teach them to be safe out there. The older I get, I think the more I realize what I got into. But I'm grateful I did. I made the right choice. It's definitely been stable for my family. you know, in this economy, blessing in itself. So I do believe I made the right choice, but sure, of course there's times where I'm like, man, there seems so hard. What if I was doing something else where I could just kind of not be worried all the time that I'm going to do something that hurts someone? Yep. And I think there's a bunch of people out there that just went, yeah, yeah, we've all been there, right? Like it's not a, and I don't think it's any sort of insult to the field of nursing. We've talked about how much, and it's obvious you're passionate for it, which is why you teach it. But all that being said, you can be passionate about something and still go, why did I choose what I chose? Yes. but more rewarding days keep you going off those hard days. So yeah. Well, then let's just segue into you talk about, you know, not wanting to make those mistakes that might hurt somebody, you know, etc. The challenges you faced, all that business. I would you like to share about because especially, I mean, being in the Peds ICU and having had that long storied career there, is there anything you want to share about any challenges you've had in life, whether we talk about grief or trauma or anything like that or not? Anything you want to share as far as that? I could take that question so many places. Let's see. You take it where you want to take it. How does that sound? the first part of the question. Yeah, I'm really well. So for career wise, I'm really fortunate that straight out of nursing school, I worked for Children's Hospital of Wisconsin and got trained up there. and so I worked in the first pediatric job I had was like post trauma, post brain injury as a brand new nurse, you know, how old I was 21 years old. and I've been able to work in various PICU settings with a couple of just, you know, curve balls in my nursing career. and watched people go through tremendous grief. I've heard howls that nobody wants to hear from grieving moms. And I've seen probably more deaths than the average person. And I thought, man, I don't ever want to become somebody that. is desensitized pain. that I think being around it so much, I see that I see people, you know, just kind of this is what we do. And then they take it home later and grieve and you have to put on this strong face. So I went through some grief, 2019, like I think we've all gone grief and we talk about trauma in different ways. So it's different for every person, but 2019, just a few months before the COVID shutdown of the state, We lost their kid's dad and I became a single mom. And that was that that could be, yeah, that kind of grief that I had to go through. And the long process was so amazing so that I can understand a little bit more about what others are going through and that they may be in a totally different state of mind than they ever intended to be. They might not be their best selves. Grief is not linear. It's up and down and all over the place. I think in nursing school, we learned that, you you have your denial and you have your anger and you have your depression and you have your bargaining and all those things that can happen all simultaneously and throughout years. so learning how to overcome grief. And I do say overcome because although there's memories and there's wishes or frustrations, I've learned how to still find the joy in everyday life and be my whole self outside of that situation and that situation won't define me. So how to kind of very quickly judge where people are at in their pain and determine, you know, how much can they take on right now in nursing school? Where are they? How are they going to get through it? Are they in the right place and mindset to be here for their patients? Or, you know, I just take, I had to take a step back from nursing for a couple months so I could get my head on straight. Yeah. not ready to care for other people. I could barely think straight. And just kind of giving a little grace to our students that are going through some hard things. Wait, you mean students actually go through hard things? That's crazy. Yeah, and then sometimes they need to step out and they're not ready for nursing school and sometimes they have to get through nursing school to keep surviving for their family. So kind of judging where they're at and what support we can give them. I'm very sensitive to people's needs and extra sensitive to single moms since I, you know, empathize with that the most. Cause there's, that's the best part about SCC. We've got all sorts of people taking our courses. All walks of life. So. It's interesting. Let me ask you this then, just something you said sparked that in my brain that other guests have talked about. But what would you say to those that have come on this show and or listened to the show and say that they've experienced a state of nursing education where they're going through stuff and they've been told by nursing school administration, instructor, fill in the blank, I don't know who, that then say, well, if we have to make this exception for you, or if we have to do this for you, we have to do it for everybody, and use that as a rationale to not, I don't want to say change the rules, but to not accept the other things that are going on in the background as much as maybe they should. What would you say to that? I could give you several examples of how, and I only know my program and what we've done, but we've had some students go through some really, really hard things and allow them to step out and step back in. We've had situations where students are putting on a tough face and they're gonna get through this and they don't wanna talk about all their stuff that they're going through. They're here for school and they're separating life. And then they come back and say, this is what I'm going through right now. And we have a student progression committee that looks at that and says, this was a real hardship. Like, yeah, you were really going through something really, really hard. it takes some of the inhumanity out of it. So I will say a lot of it is case by case, as much policy as there is. There's a lot of humanity too. We are all nurses to the heart, but we have to have people that are in the mindset to just step into the field and take all this information on too. So it's a balance. It's a balance for sure. So would your advice be to students, potential students listening, saying, hey, if you are going through something, you know what I mean? Would you recommend that they be open with their, someone they trust in that staff role that they can, know, hey, I'm really going through this. Is that kind of your advice to them or is there another spin on that? I do think it helps because we have resources that we can help plug people into or getting them into counseling or making sure that they have support. Not everybody has a great support system in the community college setting. And just allowing those around you to support you and help you and not trying to do it alone. Yeah, I do recommend that for sure. Awesome. Take that to heart, listener. Take that to heart. So then let's just go right into it then. I mean, what is some of the hardest parts about being a nurse educator? Let's put on your nurse educator hat and ask some nurse educator questions now. okay. Well, you know, I thinking about roller coasters the other day and how I hate them now and I used to love them. And yeah, and I'm like, I swear 40 hit and I'm becoming the old person that's like more scared of things. in a, not, I don't live my life in fear by any means. I'm still an appropriate risk taker, but that. that naivety of living life is kind of dissipating. And I think about some of our elderly, they're really scared of everything and they fixate on that stuff. I think it's because they've seen so much and they've gone through so much and realize how fragile life can be. I'm not a worrier necessarily, even though I've seen, even with my own kids, my daughter's off driving, my son's off to college. I'm not micromanaging them, even though I've worked with kids their age that have died, right? So I'm not living in a life of fear, but I do recognize how much more responsibility we have as humans and how much more could happen, right? And so I take that into the nursing stuff too. I didn't realize roller coasters were kind of dangerous and scary, or maybe they're not. Maybe they're really safe and I'm just becoming nervous Nellie, I don't know. But now as a nurse of over 20 years, I'm getting more intent or I should say intentional and intense, two words there. Of making sure our students are safe and realizing all that can go wrong because I knew what I was like as a 21 year old nurse and I just didn't know what I didn't know. I wasn't as afraid. I wasn't as probably aware of all the things that could happen. And so looking through at that lens, I know they don't know what they don't know. And I give grace for that, but also I need them to be very particular and intentional. with what they're doing out there so that they can build good safety habits because they just don't know. And so that's, that's fun. And the scariest part probably of being an instructor is putting people out in our community. That's going to take care of me and my family and are they safe to do that? So that's, that is fun though, because now I've got some great nurses out there that are doing an amazing job. And I think. I had a in that. You absolutely have, for sure. I... What would you say to the idea that not everyone is meant to be a nurse? I thought this morning to that because... It's such a calling in some ways, but. I say this lightly, but you don't even really have to like people to be a nurse if you'd want to choose to do something that is more research oriented and you're an introvert or you go an IT route because you're really good with technology. MedSurg is not the end of the road, right? There's community nursing, there's psych nursing. You'll find a niche that works with your personality. So it is a calling, but you got to figure out which calling it is. You might not be called to be an ICU nurse and that's okay. It's not for everybody. But can everybody be a nurse? Absolutely not. It is so hard. But can you find a place that works for you? Yeah, I think so. no, but anyone can be a nurse. Especially if you're doing it for the money, right? Well, and we get that too, right? We get the, it's for a paycheck. And there's still a level of empathy that you have to have to get through nursing school because it is so med surge heavy. are dealing with patients directly, you know, touching humans, you know, that maybe you're not used to even being that intimate setting with another human. that you've never met before. You're not a touchy-feely person. You don't know how to talk to someone and just like get them comfortable with a stranger that's gonna care for them all day. Some of that stuff you can't necessarily teach. You just are that way or you aren't. So in that respect, not everybody can make it. No, and I'll never ever forget, and I think I've name dropped her here before. Again, this is the special over 40 years old episode of Feeding Our Young. So I don't remember if I mentioned her before by name, but I'll name drop here. I'm sure she's out there somewhere, but my very first first quarter instructor at SCC in nursing school, Susan Strandberg, she taught the lecture and she was one of the clinical instructors and I had her in both capacities. And I'll never forget, along with the F word that we've mentioned here, you guys will be intimately acquainted with the F word. And I tell my students that and I pass on, she gets the credit for this. those of us in the classroom at the time were like, And she's like, flexibility, flexible, flexibility. But the other thing she said, and it stuck with me now almost 18 years later, and it's that she goes, any of you that are here right now, seated at your desk, and you're here for a paycheck, I promise you right now, you will never ever, and nurses get paid decently, she would say, but you never get paid enough to put up with what you will have to put up with, and that's pre-pandemic. Like we're talking years pre-pandemic, right? And man, she has, that point has been proven true time and time again. Yes, I get paid well enough, I got paid well enough straight out of school. to allow my wife to stay home with her kids, that was a huge thing for us. It was enough to put a roof over her head, diapers and food, and that was it, but it was enough. And yet, what she said is true. If you do not have a passion for it, if you do not have a desire, a burning desire to take care of other people, whether or not you know what capacity that's in yet, then if you're doing it for the money. Get out now. Otherwise, stay in the programs. This is gonna be great. We're gonna hear from universities. So yeah, students heard your podcast and dropped out. Don't drop out. If you wanna be a nurse, be a nurse. But if you're doing it for the paycheck, go find something else to do. Yeah, well, you won't last very long because it really is very high intensity work. You know, it takes your whole mind, body and soul to be out there and collaborating with all sorts of different people. And every day is different. My students are always so nervous to go in and they say, what do I do? Like I get in my car and I'm like, can't if I can get in this building today. I'm like, that's awesome. And they're like, wait, what? No, doesn't feel awesome. I said, yeah, it is because it means you care. And when you stop caring. you're going to be in trouble. I still have to take a breath. get to my work early if I'm going to go in to PICU and I take a minute and I center myself and I leave this other world of life behind and I go in and I'm still nervous and I've been in pediatrics over 20 years. I see you over 15. I take it very seriously and I think that some anxiety is good, right? And it's It's there to help you. It's there to make you still hold onto that passion and really think about what you're doing on the floor and how you are best serving this community. in that respect, anxiety is good. I've said that for years to them. Yeah. like you said, it shows that you still care, because the moment you stop caring, you know, the moment you go in and this becomes routine, you gotta check yourself, right? Yeah. So then, you know, we're kinda, I feel like some of this has been kinda, not dark and morose, but at the very least, little gray clouds, you know, through here. For someone listening going, my. Gosh. So then let's spin this around and let's pull it to what is it that you love most about nursing school and nursing if you wanted to add that as a topic. But since we're talking about nursing educator Kate, what do you love most about nursing school? I love, love, love putting that passion and energy into my classroom and watching the growth. It's incredible. Nursing students that you're listening out there, if you ever have me, you'll know the days I take my zip fizz in the morning because I'm like, hey everybody, let's go. But I kind of intentionally do that because I want to set the tone. I want to make sure that we're there with a good attitude because nobody wants to crawl out of bed when it's still dark outside and it's cold. and we're entering this smelly hospital and we're doing all these hard things, right? So how do we keep a good energy and bring that to the floors? And so I love bringing that to the classroom because I think it's contagious and I love watching the students have fun in the seriousness of it all and grow and I'll say, man, remember that first day of clinical and let's look at it right now. What made you feel like a nurse this quarter? And they just rattle all these fun things. That's so much fun. to watch them just like become more confident and proud of themselves and from like, you know, deer in the headlights to jumping in and helping as they can. And that carries from first quarter all the way through sixth. We do quarters at SCC, so there's six quarters total. And yeah, that is super enjoyable. I also love, love, love, love, love, can't say that enough, working for a community college. Because it's very, for me, selfishly, it's really rewarding because everything that I'm putting into these students and everything that they're demonstrating back is going straight into Spokane or the surrounding area. So I have, I've, I'm in my fifth year of teaching and I have students that have graduated. They're not students anymore. Nurses taking my students that I have helped train, which is incredible. Right. And they're, they're out there and they're. performing wonderfully and there's nothing but joy on their faces and that is so much fun to see them come full circle from scared to confident. It's the nursing school circle of life. You've heard it here first. I'd bust out in song, but we're going to spare people that, that's for sure. I imagine you have some like specific stories, you know, of what you're allowed to share anyway, of students that you've had in the past. There were some that you included in your wonderful little workup that you sent me. And would you mind, you know, shedding the light on some of those while you have the mic? you know, I think what that was actually kind of getting at was that SCC is all ages. So I'll have students that are graduating straight out of Running Start. So this could be, although she's not going into nursing, my daughter, Nora, right? She's going to graduate high school at 18. She'll have all her prereqs done if she was going on nursing track and coming into SCC nursing program at like 18, 19, they're pushing narcotics and giving benzos before they can drink legally. I know it blows my mind all the way to I've had, gosh, I mean, just off the top of my head, a construction worker that wanted to completely change their gear. People have had several different BAs and just haven't found their niche yet and want to try nursing. I had a teacher, she was 50 something, teaching that whole time and she decided to do nursing at the end of her career and nurses are teachers, FYI. Mm-hmm. That's not just me, that's you too. You get to be a teacher. If you didn't know you're going to school for two degrees, you are. So it's a really eclectic group of people. You know, it's pretty fun to see all these different walks of life coming together and using their past knowledge. I've had the best baristas, former baristas that are incredible nurses, because they're personable. They can take on a lot of stress. They can move. They can organize. It's really fun. It's really fun to see the different walks of life come into nursing. And there was another student that had participated in gang warfare that had come through all of that and is now a nurse giving back to the community. So it's very, yeah, it's just very eclectic. And I think that's what makes nursing such a beautiful, beautiful field. And not that it, you again, comparing to other fields that we, you and I maybe don't have experience in, but regardless, what makes nursing so beautiful is that mosaic of various people that make it up, the various backgrounds, the various ages, the various genders, the various, know, fill in the blank, the various whatevers. And coming back to say, you know what, I still might, I remember one of my best peers. best friend Piers in SCC. He had come in in his, I think, early 50s as an accountant in a former life. And he's like, you know, I just got tired of paper and numbers and I wanted to help people. Yeah. And I just, you know, those stories and that's not against anyone out there listening who, know, obviously I teach students that are coming to university strictly straight out of high school and have to declare their major and all the things. This is not putting down anyone who's young and coming straight through. Like Kate was saying, it's all types. all peoples and that's what just makes it so freaking beautiful. Anything else you want to add, Kate, Sure. One of the questions I ask most of my classes is, you know, there's lots of icebreakers I could do and there's always the question of why do you want to be a nurse? But what brings you joy? Not because it's my last name, but like I've learned, I've learned throughout the years that no matter how hard nursing gets, you've got to keep doing those things. And so The first day they'll be like, I love to snowboard. I loved or whatever quarter it is. I love to do this. I love to do that. And so at the end of the quarter ask, how many times did you do that thing you mentioned this quarter? I didn't have time. I'm like, you have to make time. It's not that you didn't have time. It's that you didn't make time. and they'll be like, well, I have to study. have to get A's. I'm like, but you're not, you're not going to succeed at these things. If you're not doing things that fill you up in other ways. So I do, I know nursing school is intensive. But even if it's that one mile a day in the morning to get your blood pumping and your mind working, do it because, or it's walking your dog or whatever it is, you've got to keep doing those things. And I tell my students for big exams, like do not be cramming. Go make yourself feel pretty, feel confident, listen to some good music, whatever it is that makes you feel you go into those situations. Calm, collected. confident, right? It doesn't mean I'm last minute measuring labs in my head and trying to figure out everything. I don't know, I could probably go on and on. I love sharing things with them as they organically come up, but just keep doing what you love to do in the midst of it, even especially when you become a nurse. Yeah. key. And along with that, like you've already said, as it's been established, be sexy and don't get murdered. So, you know, as long as you don't get murdered, be sexy and do the things you need to do. So those are the big takeaways from today. No, with that being said, Kate, you chose three words to describe nursing school. What were they and why did you pick them? Okay, well, artistic, because there's been a time in my life where I was like, man, I just, I'm not good at things like crafting or playing an instrument or singing. And I really wish I had an art to give. And I realized I've poured my life into nursing. And so that is an art of caring. So caring is one of our learning outcomes, right? put it very objectively, but caring is something that comes deep from within. And so it's very artistic to learn how to care with your own personality. Who are you? How are you going to care? It may not look the same for somebody that's in hospice or an L and D, but how is your personality going to help this patient? So it's an art of caring. So it's very artistic. It can be very artistic. So that's why I picked that one. Think about that a lot. Nursing school is inspiring. I'm inspired by my students every day. They're all inspired by each other. We're inspired by our patients' It's inspiring to, I mean, one of my favorite stories is one of my very first students, and this goes back to caring as well and the artistic-ness of it. She had to do her first care plan and said, well, here's some patients to work with this nurse. Pick a good one to do a care plan on. And she chose a patient that was a convicted pedophile. He was a heroin addict, was homeless and was dying of cancer. And I said, this is your first care plan. was kind of like, kind of a lot. That's a heavy, heavy patient. Can we pick something little more simple? And she said, it's okay with you, Professor Joy. They have to call the professor. if it's okay with you professor, Joy, I'd really like to do this one because if I can care for this person and find a way to be inspired by them, I can care for anyone. She's also one of my favorite nurses out there. I don't know if I have permission to name drops. I won't, but she blew my mind the entire, that was great. Like very first student, brand new job. She's still my. My standard, I just adore her. So I thought that was pretty powerful. Yeah, it was really powerful for me to see that. And that was inspired by her. And then the last one builds resilience. I had a student tell me last week, he said, I don't think I'm supposed to be here. I go home and cry every day. Like, it'll get better. Like I was empathetic, but also like I have heard this before. Like it's overwhelming. for good reason you feel that way. This is exhausting. It's so much information. There's so much pressure. It's completely time consuming. So if you're a family member of a nursing student, know that they are working very, hard. It truly is all encompassing. And that's why it's like, wait, just a mild jog. That's all I have time for. might be, it might be all they have to give. And you're supporting them, whether it be a meal or clean house when they come home or know, gas for their car so they can get to school, getting the kids ready so that they can focus on their exams. That's all very, very important for their success. So they're building resilience and by sixth quarter, they have a lot more resilience. It's amazing to see that growth. And then throughout their nursing career, Resilience doesn't have to be a hard thing. It means you can go through more and handle more. yeah, those are my words. the process of that building might be a little painful, but you know what I mean? Like it's, it legitimately just, man, I just love, I love the words you chose because that's, that is it in a nutshell. That is, that is the experience that is nursing school and that is becoming a nurse. And I love that you are speaking that directly out to those that are supporting nursing students, whether that's a spouse. a parent or a friend or a loved one, significant other, a dog or a cat, I don't know if you're listening. Anyway, whatever works as far as that goes. So before we get to the traditional last question, that was the traditional next to last question. Now the traditional last question, we're gonna sandwich something different in between, and that was something you and I kinda touched on early before we started recording, but what is your perspective on the whole feeding our young versus eating our young phenomena? Yeah, we definitely still hear that phrase. Feeding our young is why I got into being a nurse educator. I was so excited to, like I've said, bring the fun, bring the energy, let them be so comfortable coming to me. I still have nursing students tell me I'm very intimidating. And I'm like, but I'm trying to be open. What does that mean? They're like, no, it's a different type of intimidating. We just really want to make you proud or whatever. We really just want to do a good job and we want to whatever. And that's a really huge compliment to me. But I don't want them to be the type of intimidated where they're not going to call me for skills because they're scared they're going to feel stupid or that I'm going to be impatient or jump in and not let them process how to do that skill. I admit I'm had to grow in that area. It's really hard to not measure the flour and crack the eggs for your toddler making cookies, right? It takes a great amount of patience and patience doesn't necessarily mean that I'm like grating my teeth. It means that I'm learning how to slow down. because I'm a fast person. Okay, where am I? I might have gone a little off. So that was my intentions. And I think that's the type of nurse educator I am or I strive to be. But I've been thinking about this eating your young because it has all negative connotations. And the reason is, if you don't know what eating your young is, it means that you're giving this new nurses such an attitude or a hard time or judgment or a feeling of being inferior that it drives them away from the field or that floor or whatever makes them feel dumb or bad about themselves. I think those nurses I have also worked with, my first preceptor was terrifying, also gave me some of the most skill and being So I was been thinking about those people that scared me a little bit. I respected them. So there was intimidation factor there. But it was also like, okay, they just they're just scared to they just want you to be safe. And you're you've got lives in your hands through your instructor. And they're just they get a little nervous. You know, they don't they want anyone to get hurt. And I think that's where some of that eating your young is coming from is just like a fear. Now there is those that are just like too high on their horse and need to come down a notch. But I think in general, it's just a fear thing like that scared of roller coasters or learning what could happen and realizing that students don't know what they don't know. So I'll give you the advice students that I still give, but I was given the first time I set foot in a PICU. And that was at Children's Hospital with a very intimidating preceptor. And she said, if you ask questions, I'll worry less. Do not pretend to know anything. Do not feel like I would rather you ask questions and then I'll trust you more. But the minute you're quiet and pretending, I'll know it and I will not trust you anymore. So the culture of finding a floor that you can ask questions and feel safe and not feel stupid when you ask those questions, that's the floor you should be on. That's the community that you want. I want you to be like, you know what? I should know how to empty a JP drain, but I have never had to do one in nursing school. How is that possible? I don't know, but will you show me? Yeah, let's do it. Don't pretend. So yeah, I think, I think the, that we do want to feed our young, but just know that those nurses that have been out there a while are just really have a lot to give. So find a way to get their knowledge out. Yeah. I love it. coincidentally on your run if I recall correctly. Just another plug out there. inspired me and it's a lot of people that scared me inspired me so yeah well, I mean, we could end on that advice, but if you could only give one last piece of advice for today's nursing student, what would that be? I want to, yeah, there's so many things, but I think just the concept of integrity, how I define integrity is nobody's around, nobody can see you. Are you doing the safe things? Are you still being true to what your yes is? So following through on your yeses, whether that's scrubbing the hub for 15 seconds for the safety of your patient, even if nobody's watching you. or it's following through on that coffee date with your friend, even though you feel like cuddling up with your cat. When you start to follow through on what you've said you're gonna do in any capacity, you build self-esteem within yourself, you build trust within yourself, you like yourself more. That's how you start to build true happiness. And that all comes from that integrity of doing what you say you're gonna do, letting your yeses be yeses, and just being true to yourself in that. So good. Don't ignore that tiny voice inside you. Don't ignore it. Even in the dark, in the silence, by yourself. I love that. Kate. I just love it. Thank you so much, Kate. This has been such an amazing time. I can't wait to do this again. Are we gonna flip the script? Let's flip the script. We'll do a short little episode too where Kate is gonna be the hostess and I am gonna be a schmo answering questions. So we're gonna take our break. And we'll be back for episode, the next Kate Joy episode, the Kate Joy-led episode of Feeding Our Young. Thanks so much, Kate. I've had a great time. Thanks, Eric. I feel honored to be here. Appreciate you so much. Bye, Quest.