86 - Kate Joy Pt 2: Host for a Day

Join spur-of-the-moment and alternate universe host-for-a-day Kate Joy and her honored guest Eric Miller as they compare and contrast peds oncology and postpartum nursing, and discuss topics such as end of life care from the perspectives of a nurse and patient family member, what grief does to people, working in the place where your loved one died, walking down nursing school memory lane, the advantages of entering a chosen specialty directly after graduating, the errant view of “med-surg as the minor leagues,” “us” versus “them,” never saying never, giving maximum effort, Eric’s number one piece of advice for nursing students, and more!

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Transcript

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Well, Eric, hello. Welcome to your own podcast that I am now hosting. How's it feel to be in the hot seat over there? Well, so far so good, but that's because nobody's asked me any questions, so I have a hunch that feeling's gonna go away very quickly. Yeah. Well, if you listen to the prior podcast, my name is Kate Joy, and I don't really have a public relations and communications degree. man, perhaps that this is harder than I thought it would be. Maybe I'm just going to stick with nursing, forget it. But that's what I went into college for, for like a whole quarter. And then, so here we are and get to, to live my, my, you know, of alter ego, I guess. I love that. This has been so fun talking with you and I'm looking forward to getting to know you more and let our listeners get to know you a little bit more as well. We all know your name's Eric Miller and that you've been a nurse almost 20 years. So, yeah, that's what you hear. So are you, I actually don't know some of these things, so these are pretty, just a conversation you get to be a part of, like he says. Are you currently doing any nursing at the bedside? love this question. First of all, long-time listener, first-time caller. I've always wanted to say that. Yes, yes, I currently work full-time at the bedside as a practicing postpartum nurse. I take care of moms and babies after the babies come out, not before, because I respect the people that do that and I am not that person. And while I respect you, cause I do not want to do that part, the postpartum part, actually really do enjoy those first couple of weeks and the mom's getting used to everything. But if it were me and it paid as well as nursing, I'd be like, let's do let us, I want to be there for the mama. Do you have doulas come by and do they overstep their bounds? Do they know where their place? that I must go on record as saying there has never been a single doula I've ever interacted with that has ever overstepped their bounds. Now that being said, I might have heard stories of, but no, 100%. We definitely have doulas that attend deliveries and that have been there shortly thereafter when they come over to us. Doulas that have maybe even, if I recall correctly, been in the O.R. if a mom has had to have a C-section. So yeah, midwives, doulas, all the above. Cool. You want to hear a fun fact? I had both my children in London, England through the National Healthcare System. So that's interesting. I won't go into my whole birth stories because that's a whole podcast. But my first son was born after 35 hours and fetal tones were dropping and I 10 centimeters and I had emergency C-section. So I was kind of terrifying and traumatizing in ways that I thought I was supposed to be a real woman that had no pain meds, naturally delivered. And then I got in the... but he's safe. So then my daughter really wanted to have a VBAC with. And so my mom didn't make it. She was in the airplane during my son's birth. She made it for my daughters and she took the entire doula course for me to be the best support person she could be. fun fact. and for those that don't know, sorry, what's a VBAC again? Vagerian, Vagerian. It's a vaginal birth after C-section. It's very dangerous. Not a lot of doctors do it because you can rupture since your uterus has been cut open in the past. But yeah, I did it natural birth. So I got both worlds, both experiences. But this is not without meaning. But yeah, I think that's really cool. And then my mom, she never was a nurse, but she should have been a nurse. She'd be an amazing nurse. Mom, if you're listening. I know you're living a little vicariously through me and I'm coming through for you. But she then did hospice training again, having no medical background and was brilliant at it. And she still wants to dabble in that. So that birth and I mean, you've done the same thing. Like I'm kind of bringing this in that, that bringing babies into the world and their first days on earth, and then the end of life care. although you weren't in hospice, Pete's onk was a lot of hospice care, a lot of end of life stuff that you had to endure. how was that contrast for you? Pretty, different fields. Yeah, very different fields and for good reason. I mean, did that on purpose and you know, I went, I kind of tell people, here's how I like to phrase it, is that, I, especially when I first got into postpartum, which was now almost five years ago, PEDS on 13 years before that. And when I first made the transfer, people are like, well, how do they, how do the two fields compare? And I, and I tell people basically that I went from a place and this is not insulting anyone in any way, any, any way, or form, any patients of mine, anything like that. But I said I went from a place of often actual trauma to a place of often perceived trauma. And meaning, you know, somebody's life is just upended. You have a child. mean, as any anyone who's had a child can attest, you have your first baby. And, you know, I don't care whether you tried to wait until you were ready or not. No one's ready. You can't be ready to have a child. And so you go to this place where it's like, my gosh, here's this life that depends on me. And now you never know what that actually feels like until it happens. And in a life that is truly 100 % dependent on anything that you say and do is absolutely terrifying. And for some, it's a little bit difficult to cope with. yeah, so I've always said that it's the, it's actual trauma in the case of now you have a cancer diagnosis or, you know, the things that you've done in the PICU. to perceive trauma, my gosh, I have this baby for the first time and now I'm losing my mind. The end results are often very similar as far as what that produces, what that generates in a human being, outward signs of that and how they respond to it and maybe lesser of coping, you know what mean, maybe their coping level has just been dropped a few notches. it's, it's a lot of similarities as far as that goes, but contrasting the two, mean, it's just to be able to be there at the beginning of life and at the end of life. I, for me, I don't care how old you are. you know, that's a whole different discussion. I just, those two parts of life are just, there's nothing, nothing like them. They're just so magical. And, and for, to, to be a practicing nurse and to have that allow me to have those opportunities and to be part of people's. miracles, and I'll refer to the end of life as a miracle in a way as well, as painful as it can be. It's just so rewarding no matter how difficult it is every time. So end of life care is one of the topics that I teach at SCC Nursing School. There's my plug. And I talk about how tying it all together, that's really the art of nursing because you're not really looking at the labs anymore. You're not looking at the x-rays. Like, you know death is coming. How can I care for this person in their deepest, darkest time of need and the family? That's very rewarding. We get to go back to the basics of like, let me fluff your pillow and make you comfortable. let me swab your mouth. Let me make sure that you are having, you know, touching on a very, very delicate time in someone's life. It's pretty rewarding whether that is birth or death. So I know that in other podcasts, you've touched a little bit about losing your own son. And I wanted to know who was there for you in that time that helped your nervous system maybe reset or. was a pivotal part in your grief process, or maybe not. Maybe somebody that really didn't know what to say and kind of made it worse. That's a big topic. it's huge. And again, like you said, like I hear your voice saying, we can do a whole episode about this. legitimately, yeah, I guess, you know, we live in a world of disclaimers and, you know, it's 2024 and, you know, I feel like you have to, know, a lot of what's going off on an entirely different tangent, but I feel like some of society's ills are we go, well, OK, they didn't say they like me. So. You know what Or they didn't say this or... I guess it's a social media reaction, right? I post this and I didn't get as many likes or they only put a thumbs up instead of a heart or... All that has, I think, rewired the brain in a very bad way. So, living in a world of disclaimers, pulling it back around, I do have to say that any names that I dropped are not all inclusive by any way, shape, or form. There were so many amazing nurses and, I'd pull my wife in here if she wasn't at work at this moment. because there were some that I just that we would see years after but I mean right off the top of my head straightaway Kristy Van Hook you know her I can't even she was the one that was on duty when we took Micah off of life support and she had taken care of us prior to and she was there and looking back I'm assuming they were short-staffed because she had stayed over to be part of that moment with us and just her presence her confidence, her quiet leadership. You know, she's not a talker. I've never known her to be like a talker. You know what mean? She knew when to be funny. She knew when to laugh. She knew when to bring levity. But she also knew when it all that was needed was just that calming. calming presence. so yeah, my heart goes out to her. Dr. Cecilia Fry, you know, retired. She, I've touched on this before, and this one's hard to not get into the details and not cry and that sort of thing, but she was there at a very, very pivotal moment when we were doubting, you know, whether or not we made the right decision and feeling quite honestly that by not providing feeding tube support to our son that we were starving our son to death. And she looked directly into our eyes and said, and said, you're not killing your son. It's the car accident that killed your son. Don't ever forget that. it's again, like just in the moment, the words you need to hear, right? Like the, the, the one truth bomb drop, whatever that just really makes her breaks the rest of your grieving process, you know, Dr. Dan Brutico, Gosh, I love that man. And I wish he could be a doctor forever. He was there, Dr. Graves. You know, I'm mentioning a lot of providers and I feel like I'm doing nurses a disservice, but the truth of the matter was almost every single person who was on the medical side of that experience for us over nine days, just amazing, absolutely amazing, gave us the space we needed, didn't. I can't think of any missteps by staff. Of course, there's always, you know, I always tell people when you're grieving, A, yes, some people go straight to you get to feel or you get to know people for who they really are. And I think that's a step too far because some people that you think would be there for you disappear. And then there are others that you had no clue that even cared or barely knew you or whatever that they're like, they're But I think it's just those person's specific response to grief and whatever it is you're walking through specifically, you don't know. Maybe they've gone through something similar or maybe they, you know, and that's why they either get closer or get farther away because they can't handle it or, you know, whatever. It's fascinating to me. But yeah, the only time I ever had somebody where it truly was like, you you're saying the wrong thing. My wife had visited the church that we had come from and I won't name drop here because things had since then been worked out and between this person and us and but there was this one person who Looking back it was their way to Comprehend us losing a 16 month old son But they my wife was visiting the church. I had to work. I don't know what it was. I didn't go back And when she was there, this person standing next to her and unsolicited said, well, you know why your son died, right? And of course she's like, like, I'm not going, wow. You know, I would have been like, I'm all ears. What is the answer to that question? But she's like, no, like she's stunned that this person is even going that direction. And they said, well, it's because you left the church in bitterness. And because we were, you know, in the children's ministry and had left that. I just, she told me that over the phone and I was like, it took everything within me not to get in the car and drive over and have a little word with this person. But it, it just again, and again, in the heat of the moment, like that takes a lot to deal with, but I genuinely believe that, you know, I make no bones about the fact that I believe in a higher power. I believe in God and I believe that God is telling me that like, that was there. Like his concern with me was not. what was said in that moment, his concern with me was how do I respond to that moment? And ugh. And I was like, okay, fine, like I get it, I get it, I get it. So yeah, no, grief brings out the best and worst in everybody. And you may not have been your very best self in those times, but yet you still had the strength to rely upon your character. But not everybody has that same kind of awareness to be like, okay, this isn't worth it. I gotta take care of me. So that's amazing. Thank you for sharing about that. think, you know, sharing about Micah and helping, you know, I like have learned in my age to talk about the elephant in the room. And if Micah had passed six months ago, I probably still would bring him up because it's important to talk about those that we love. If you were a listener of the last podcast, you know that I met Eric, he floated to the PICU. So let's put that into perspective in this conversation. This person, Eric Miller that you're listening to, he was in the same building, the same room, the same desk, the same nurses that cared for his son as he died. And they went through that. And here he is nursing for other families. That is incredibly difficult. There are people that can't step foot in the hospital after a death like that. How long did it take for you to build some of the healing where you were able to give back? And how was that going? I mean, how did you float to the pick you? Did you ever just say, nope, I'm not going there? yes, 100%. And fortunately, this was back in the time where, I mean, you couldn't refuse, it's not like you refused floating assignments, right? Like that's not really a thing. And if you work somewhere where that's a thing, let me know because I can't imagine that actually being a thing. But for us, working peds onc at the time, we're called group three. So group three included women's children, NICU, all of that. That's group three. And so for the most part, as nurses, we would float to other units within that group. And then if we were floated outside that group, unless we had experience working with adults in what we call the tower, the main hospital building, then we were not nurses in that situation, unless it was some sort of emergency, but otherwise we serve as functionals and or sitters. So knowing that, I was like, dear Lord, I'm going to have to someday face that elephant in the room as it were. No issues going to the NICU, some people don't like that. No issues going to, you know, Three South, one of the other Peds floors. And at the time, L2 was another Peds floor, no problem with that. But the PICU was one that I was terrified of, and I genuinely feel like much to the chagrin of my peers. I, you know, they were, they understood my situation, and I try not to, and I definitely back then didn't want to be the guy that's running around with this, you know, I want to play the pity card, the grief card. I can't, I can't do that, because, you know, my son died. You know, there's people that do that, you know, this, that, and the other. And in this case, was, man, that was, just, I was terrified, 100 % terrified, you know, adrenaline response, the whole thing. And so it took me, I want to say it was, I think I had the luxury of having about a year, year and a half before like management and the peers got kind of tired of it. And they're like, okay, you gotta, you gotta kind of face this. Either that, was about a year, a year and a half before I could finally fully accept it. The timeline is a little fuzzy, but it definitely took quite a while. And when I first went there, they were very gracious. You all in the PICU were very gracious enough to allow me to float to what we called at the time the annex. I don't know if it's still called that, but the annex was where the quote-unquote less sick PICU kids were, either overflow from the other peds floor or because they were kind of stepping down in between almost ready to go back to that Peds floor. And so I started there and, you know, few shifts there. Okay, that's, we're good. And then it was like, well, someday I'm going to have to, you know what I mean? I got to go to the other side. Because the annex is literally from where you sat in the annex, you couldn't see the rooms where my son had died, the rooms where we had spent over a week in all that business. And then finally it came to be, I had some patients that were, you know, and I think that's about the time when I met you. Yeah, it was and you're like, that was the room Micah was in and I was like, whoa. yeah. And we were sitting right across from the, you know, and I'm like, it, I found myself at times during that shift just staring into those rooms and yeah, and there was, I don't remember who else was on. There was another nurse that was on there. I'm like, I think I even told you, I told somebody, but I'm pretty sure it was you that I was like, that girl's gonna think I'm a creeper because I'm not staring at her. I'm not staring at her. You know, happily married, all the things. I'm just, you you can't help but go, back there and that was a difficult shift but it was also a very healing shift because that was the shift for me. Yeah. Yeah, which is strange to me. Yeah. we were meant to meet at that moment. And I just thought, I don't know. I was like, whoa, that guy is really strong. That's amazing. That's before I even went through my stuff. And I can't even imagine all you had to go through sitting there thinking through that and giving back. So thank you for still giving all these years later. It's amazing. Yeah. anybody through you know i mean that was the whole reason why i got into peds onc in the first place so Was because of Micah or, what did you do before Micah passing? mean, before Micah passing, I was in nursing school. And so, you we had just moved here. Yeah, we had been here less than a year in Spokane, specifically to go to SCC. That's a story in and of itself. We were choosing between Bellevue Community College and Spokane Community College, and God had something to say about that and all the things. But SCC is where, so our plan was to get over here, get educated and get back. and I get back to the Seattle area and you know, has different plans and all the things and here we are still. We had never left. no, I was attending nursing school at the time and in fact no, excuse me, pre-rec so I was working full time and doing one class at a time and I'd just gotten accepted into anatomy and physiology. Prior to that, I was a children's pastor for two years. Prior to that, I was in medical records for off and on, know, while still in high school. I started when I was 14. medical records basically for nine years because I wanted to be a doctor when I grew up and And so yeah, it was medical fields always been a part of me. So yeah So yeah, that helps put into perspective a little bit of the timeline and all walks of life coming into SCC. So what do you remember from SCC? Cause most of the people I think that were there are probably retired now, except one of your professors was, is now our Dean Cheri Osler, who is incredible at what she does. She, I, Well, we just this week had ACEN come to visit. And if you don't know what that is, that is like our JCAHO where they come and make sure that we are crossing our T's and dotting every I so that we can have an accredited nursing program for people to graduate from. So it's very exciting. It went well. So she led that ship and she is incredible. So we're very lucky to have her as part of our team. Who else? What else do you remember from SCC? We've changed a lot, I think, since you've been there. Yeah, I'm sure it has. You know, I don't know, the old adage, the more things change, the more they stay the same, right? I'm sure there's aspects that have changed tremendously and others that are just timeless as far as that goes, but... Wait, what? my gosh. No, so I mean, like, you yeah, this was, like we said, these are last episode in this episode, it's the over 40 years old. So it's been a while. Graduated from there December of 2006. Back when we were a seven quarter program, not a six quarter program, so there's that. So y'all that are taking it now, you're just able to do it so much better than the rest of us, because dang, we needed a little extra time under the warmer there. No, there's, what don't I remember? It's funny, like you saying that, and I bring back all these memories, one of which primarily, the scrub burning. You know, we're dark blue scrubs. It's a beautiful color. People hate having white scrubs, but when we were done, we had a big ol' at somebody's property. They had a big barrel, you 55-gallon barrel drum, and we just, those of us that wanted to burn our scrubs, we tossed them in the barrel, and it was just this liberating thing. So that speaks to the... We did get new scrubs as of last year that are more breathable and not all cotton. But also if you don't want your scrubs anymore, there's plenty of people that can't afford them and we will take a donation, FYI. But if you wanna burn them, that's fun too. It is fun, maybe not good for the environment, or again, you could probably help people by actually donating scrubs. But maybe that's not what happened with a bunch of us today. gross. I mean, we called ourselves the Smurfs, right? Like it's all dark, it's dark blue, not light blue, for those who are wondering what colors, SCC. And I, we've had students recently, so I think it's still that kind of that navy blue, yeah? Yeah, and our shoes had to be white, which is again, I don't understand. tattoos now. I worked with the team to vote that in. Working on multi-care and Sacred Hearts policies, we are mirroring their policies. And we can have piercing, one piercing on the nose or eyebrow now. It's very exciting. And you can wear black shoes or Navy shoes. black shoes or Navy shoes. I Mean and obviously like I wasn't there when it was, know, you go back far enough and people I've talked to are like I remember having to wear the white hat. Yeah, and it's like, you know, no, thank you So everybody has their story, right? Like I don't know what though? I love the hat still because I heard, you know, I think it was in your first podcast about talking about the nursing hat. And one of the people were like, Ooh, I remember actually I'm going to wear that. I still like the hat because there's not a lot of things that are just a nursing symbol, even though maybe males didn't wear that hat, not excluding them. It's, it's just, it's a nursing thing. So I love it. I mean, stethoscopes can be lots of providers. There's not a lot of things that are just nursing. So that's why that's there. No, I remember that and you know, people talk about, know, how like one of their favorite things about nursing school is the camaraderie, the know, the friendships they made and all that. And it's the same thing. Like I just it's been almost 18 years and I love to death so many of the people in that class. Anyone listening, was everybody, of course. Just say no, I but it just you go back in and it is amazing how. you run into each other, you know, off and on throughout the years and those that stay around the community like you talk about. It's, you know, there's still people I interact with and it's just, I just love that. I love the people that I met back then and we'll cherish that to the day I die. Yeah, it's fun to see. have cohorts of eight, so there's 56 students, but they're broken up into eight. And those eight that go through that first quarter together are like bonded. And the first they're just like, I don't know if I really, you know, get, you know, I'm going to get along with these people or they do, they always bond because they have to go through that, all that confusion and excitement and nervousness and questions together. I'm sure. Yeah. The eight. Yeah. so there's like eight in the lab and those eight in the lab after they learn it in lab, they go to clinical together and then that all mixes up each quarter. So you just keep one person from your original cohort, but that's that original cohort that you first get into nursing school with. They form some bond to that's kind of special. mean, they're all to, you know, split into two lectures. So your lectures are very small and putting plugs in, but yeah. That's the other cool part about SCC now. I don't know if it was like this for you when you were there, but I can teach lecture lab and clinical and sim. Sims now with, you know, big part of nursing school. And so you might have a professor that dabbles with you in all these different, avenues of nursing or I should say facets of learning. So it's kind of fun to see different perspectives. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. so nursing school was a long time ago. I don't even remember much of my nursing school, honestly. so you went straight into pedsonc. Is that right? Well, so a lot of students want to do peds or want to do day shift or want to do ICU. And they, know, in my day we had to go straight to nights. We had to do our time. It's pretty special that I got to go straight to a children's hospital. That wasn't the norm. you had to do your time, right of passage stuff with adults. but now nursing students are going straight into ICU, straight into. L and D straight into pick you. Blows my mind. How do you feel about some of that change in the culture of like their day shift and high intensive care straight out of nursing school? You're preaching my language sister, because that is a soapbox of mine. There are some of the longer tenured nurses who are like, you know, well, no, this should not be a thing. It's always been, you know, again, like you said, almost a feeling of putting in your dues, but also really forming quote unquote a foundation upon which to then branch out into specialties. And I've loved the more recent perspective in the last, and I don't know when this was espoused. But I love hearing it in this day and age where there are now a lot of nurses and a lot of people who are like, no, you know what? I, I, I, where I've kind of landed after talking to people and all the things is first of all, you think about it from a patient perspective. So casual listener, if you're still there listening to Kate Joy's podcast, if you're still listening, you know, the thought of having a new grad take care of you in an ICU or a loved one in an ICU could be very terrifying. but know that times have changed. It's no longer, we're just getting in and okay, good luck, you know, sink or swim. There's excellent residency programs, so much specific learning, and a couple of our episodes touch on that, on some students who have gone straight into these special areas, including the PICU, of all things. But for me, where I kind of land with all this is we've shifted from the perspective of, because all this kind of, we're talking, the elephant in the room of this topic is MedSurg. And people are like, well, you've got to do your time in MedSurg first. Mm-hmm. it's a halfway house or a prison or a rehabilitation center or all these negative connotations. Well, you got to do med-surg and then you can do the cool stuff. And so I feel like for decades med-surg and even back when I was going, I don't know about you, Kate, in Wisconsin, but med-surg was kind of viewed as that stepping stone. And so for me, it's it's no longer, I feel like the way things have gone in American society and just general health. speaking, it's not, MedSurg should no longer be viewed as a minor league where someone, you know, gets to make their mistakes and then move on to the major leagues and really, you know, shine. MedSurg is a specialty all of its own. And I want amazing nurses who are passionate about it and who are, you know, stellar, taking care of me, God forbid, when I end up needing something. on a med search floor and those two things, the fact that there's a residency program and the whole viewing a med search is a minor league thing. Like I think those are the things that if we get past that, I'm a huge advocate now for saying, hey, student who wants to do XYZ, jump into it, go do it. Because what I told people when I interviewed, the people that interviewed me, I said, I'm going to be terrified no matter what. No matter where I land, no matter what I do, it's gonna be scary, because I'm a new nurse, I'm a new grad. I'd rather be terrified in something I love, and something I wanna do, than, you know what I mean, than to take that extra time and be terrified twice over. I don't know. Yeah, and I think you really hit that well that we've really changed a lot as far as we have residencies, which is where you are really being mentored for a good year. And then we also have another new thing in the last few years, which is called nurse techs. So both MultiCare and Providence have nurse techs. So you come in, you get to wear a different kind of hat than a nursing assistant where you can do more and you can see more and you can float to different units and get a feel for them. So. they're getting a lot more experience than just their 10 hour clinical day, which is cool. I always recommend MedSurg for capstone just to get all the skills that they can. But I think it's neat that these new grads can be brought up by these preceptors to do things the right way instead of coming in with different habits, right? So it is pretty cool. It's neat seeing the students thrive. And if you can't, that's okay. You can find another specialty that works for you. or go to MedSurg and say, hey, that worked really well for me in nursing school. I'm gonna go there for a while. Yeah, exactly. on that, that they are, because it has been said before too, that it's harder sometimes, they think, for nurses to come into a specialized field, having gained experience elsewhere, and not necessarily having to unlearn the basics, but having to unlearn certain habits, certain things, in order to replace it with something else. Sometimes that's more difficult than just learning it the way it needs to be learned for that specialty in the first place. Yeah, and coming with an open mind, like, it's kind of a unspoken thing that I should probably teach more, but you never say, well, at this place, we did it this way, and at this place, we did it this way. And as you grow and get to know the community, join a unit-based council and be a change advocate. But in the beginning, learn, listen. If they're telling you to do something unsafe, you do it the way you were taught. That happens all the time. But in general, learn your culture, learn. your doctor's way of doing things, learn the nurses workflow and just be open to asking lots of questions and you'll do fine, right? That's preaching to the choir, but. brought me back to my, I don't know, was about year five, year six on Peds Onc, and we had a nurse that was hired on from Seattle Children's. Her family had moved over here, and so she got hired on to Peds Oncology at Sacred Heart. And so, you know, first of all, there was always the, felt like, not necessarily that, well, that's maybe a dated term, but the point is, we might have felt like we were in the shadow of Seattle Children's because they could do. They could do bone marrow transplants, that sort of thing, which we do not do here in Spokane. We do have to, at least last I heard, think maybe we do a few, but I mean like the true bone marrow transplants, those kids, they gotta go to Seattle and those nurses have that expertise. So we already felt like we lived in the shadow. And so this nurse comes to us and she's still there. She's amazing. I'm not throwing her into the bus. I'm not even gonna say her name. I love her to pieces. And I'll never forget, because I was... Precepting her as a new hire and she'd always you know, I mean we're talking six months in to a year in she was still like Well, you know we did it this way, you we did that enough I I'm just trying to get used to the fact that you guys do it this way and I'm sorry I always catty-ly and in love would respond with I'm sorry you guys I you're I hate to tell you sister, but you're one of us now. It's we it's not you. It's we Yeah. used to do it, and we do it this way. And it's just one of those things that we would play full back and forth. up because that was me. I was this girl you're talking about. I came from a magnet children's hospital where I had not only been trained. So it started as a knack on all the 12 floors. And then I chose one floor to do my nursing in for a couple of years, went to London, came back, did that floor again for a little bit, and then pivoted into ICU. That's three floors of 24 beds each of intensive care for children. One cardiac, one trauma, one medical. Then I got cross-trained to the ER and the NICU, which was the highest NICU you can learn in. So I learned a lot, right? And then I go to an eight-bed community PICU in California. So things were different and I was just like, and they were amazing. They were amazing, but I had to stop. Somebody pointed out to me like, stop saying, you know, children's hospital, we did this and we did this and we did this because they're really proud of what they had built and what they had built was amazing. And just got to come with a learning spirit. That's why travel nurses can just kind of adapt. So I love floating to places and just being like, show me what you got, show me what you do. I'll do what you do. I did that with nursing school and learned a lot that way. didn't know how to teach. If you're my first students that you ever had me in lecture, please forgive me for any babbling or misunderstandings, because I was learning too. I was learning too. They passed. I was gonna say, and I'm sure they caught your heart as well, 100%. Like, yeah. But anyway, that was, yeah, that's a good word for students. Be humble, always have lots of questions. Okay, so you're doing this podcast, you're still working, and you're adjuncting at, is it, I know Gonzaga and WSU, and so you. has gone by the wayside due to schedule changes and all the things, so yeah, that's a- thing about being an adjunct. You're not really committed. You get to like ebb and flow with the different. Yeah, and I know we now have, you know, NICs around the corner and we have, which is in Idaho for those listeners that don't know the area. And then we have Eastern has started up a new nursing program. So there's a lot of nurses being pumped out by our community. And there's more than I'm probably not even, I think there's Nightingale something that I don't even know about. Yeah, we're not even talking about the private colleges or that sort of thing. Yeah. right. So what would you like to, what would, do you want this podcast to be your full-time gig? Do you want to stay in OB? Do you think you might go to some other specialty somewhere? What's your plan? Yes, that's my answer to that. Yes, all the above. As far as going to another specialty, that one's pretty easier. I have obviously in the last five years learned to never say never. Always thought I'd be pedsonc always thought I'd be night shift, and here I am doing neither of those things at this point. And today is actually the nine month-aversary of me being a day shifter after almost being a nurse of 18 years. So nine months, I've almost... for your sleep? I love it, it's so amazing. We need nightshifters, I'm sleeping. I am, and I'm fiercely protective of that sleep schedule, much to my wife and family's chagrin. they hate it. I, yeah. it took me about nine months. That's why I asked you to get over insomnia and my body treating little, I'd fall asleep, I wake up and I'd be ready to go. Cause I was used to living on cat naps and to learn how to sleep. So eight hours, I'm very protective. I was in my night shift naps, but it feels so good to sleep normal. Sorry, night shifters, but. No, and that's just it. Again, I can all tout the virtues of night shift all day long, but the one huge negative, there's a reason why you get paid more. And that's the, it's one of the philosophies of life. If you're getting paid more to do something, there's usually a reason. And so that's one of those. But no, for me, I'll never say never as far as doing another specialty, but I am where I feel like I am where I... at least need to be for now and I love it. I have no desire to go anywhere else. I had no desire to go anywhere else before. So let's just see where that takes me. But in the meantime, I mean, if I leave that, it's really to teach more, to flip that role and to be a full-time educator and part-time bedside nurse. Because that's where I see myself, like I said in the previous episode, you're living my dream at the moment where the bulk of those hours are... you know, investing and teaching and pouring into students. And then you're still at the bedside because you're not ready to give that up. And I'm not anywhere near ready to give that up. I love taking care of my patients. But it just that that and then the podcast, I don't this thing, as long as it helps nursing students, I don't care what happens with this thing. If I said from the get go, because originally I had about 20 people that said yes, that they'd be on the podcast. I, your podcast, sorry, Feeding Our Young, I'm the honored guest today. No, so I mean, but you know, we had about 20 yeses and I knew about, you know, historically that means 25 % aren't gonna follow through for whatever reason, no ill will towards anyone. And sure enough, of those 20, about 25 % fell through, so that left 16. Wait, am I doing my math right? No, 15. 15, that's it. So about 15 people definitely say. And so for me in the early, was like, just back in May, I'm like going, if it ends up being a dozen episodes, two dozen episodes, and that's all it is, and it exists out there on the interwebs for the all of time, then we've done our thing. And we've done our part, and we've shared in that community. But hoping, of course, that it would grow legs and run. where today I think is your number 54 of honored guests. And so that's, again, compared to a lot. You can always compare yourself, make yourself feel better comparing yourself downward and make yourself feel worse by comparing upward. Obviously there's podcasts that have been running forever with thousands of episodes and all of the things. I don't care about any of that. All I care about is the next person. The next person who has a story to share and getting their voice out there. And if I can keep doing that ad nauseum, man, I will die a happy man. Whatever that ends up looking like. Now if that grows legs, yeah. Yeah, and that's what I mean. Like I just get to, it's, I'm not getting paid to do any of it and I get to just sit, I get to talk with people, I get to pick their brain about nursing and about life and my gosh, like this is the dream job right here. Like for me, like in my phase in life right now. So no, the answer is yes. I'd love to do all of it. So you're doing what you wanna do and you love it. That's the answer. That is somewhere all of you nursing students can get to. You can find the thing that you go to work and you, you you find a community there or you find a purpose and you just enjoy it. I honestly did not know I would like nursing, educating this much. Yeah, I went to several different interviews for different jobs and I went into the interview like, I don't even know if I wanna go, but I got the interview, I'll go. And then after the interview, I'm like, I'm gonna accept if they offer and whoo. Yeah, I didn't know I really, really want it until a couple of years in. Now it's super fun, but it was a ton of work getting used to that different mode. But yeah, you like put your work in for a couple of years before you give up on stuff. And if it's given you joy and you're not absolutely in pain going to work, then you found something right for you. And that's huge. do, we need to work for money, we need to support families and I've been there too. do what you maybe like less for a year or two and really stick it out. I love that advice because you just don't know and you know, got to give it a fair shake and you know, we get too many. just, you know, and I don't know if it's a product of the pandemic or just what, but we see a lot of these nurses that come in, we train them and they're like, okay, great. Not quite what I wanted. I'm out. And you're just like, okay, well now we're back to square zero and And I get that, you know, for whatever reason, and some people it's been family, it's been whatever, I'm not trying to pooh-pooh anybody that's come and gone, even in our unit, but man, you know, it really does a disservice to the unit because those of us that are quote unquote left behind are still there and we're just like, man, we really need the help. And this was an amazing person and we get excited to work with you and then you leave. And it's like, ugh, all right, next. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's some floors of high turnover. It's not necessarily because the floor isn't good. It's great culture. Everybody loves it, but they use it as a launching pad to other specialties. So that's hard, but yeah, find what you love. And it sounds like you found what you love, but are always open to new loves, which is really cool. And have gone, and a testament to our community of, you can go through some really, really hard things and still have a strong, beautiful marriage, beautiful kids that are thriving. doesn't mean our life is without challenges, but here you are serving our community. And I think you're really inspiring. What were my words? Inspiring, artistic, and building resilience. I think you exemplify that very well for our nursing community. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Likewise. Likewise, friend. Yeah, so is there an ending question, which would be, what would you like to end sharing with for our nursing students that you've met out there? You've done some educating, you've done precepting, sure, on the floor. What's your bit of advice for our nursing community? I've given a lot on this little stretch here. as is often the case right like which is it it's funny now that that question exists You know X number of episodes in and X number of interviews in because then it's I don't know how many times I say it I'm like well, okay You you've already given all this advice like now if you had to sum it up in one or if there's one thing you wanted someone to take away It really is now that you're asking me. I'm like and just so you guys know like We came up with this idea in the middle of last episode and we took a little potty break in between and that's it. So it's not like we sat here talking about what we're gonna talk about. So literally sitting here and hearing that question, not having prepped for it, possibly even knowing it was coming, but I just, don't like... Take your 30 seconds. We can always cut that part out. No, you know, legitimately, and I hate to go cliche, and my students who have had me, my adjunct students over last couple years, they'll know where I'm going with this. But, you know, being, as I already established, a huge Deadpool fan from earlier, prior to Deadpool becoming super popular this year, you know, joining the MCU and all the things, it was, you know, still semi-popular. It was Ryan Reynolds and all the things, but it was still kind of a... a niche movie that some people either loved or hated and didn't have a huge budget and all that business. But the character, I don't know why I'm drawn to the character so much. mean, he's the opposite of what I am in almost every facet. Just cussing and violent and gratuitous, all the things. But it's the sarcasm maybe. You know what mean? That sarcasm, that speaking to the fourth wall, that not being afraid to call out things for what they are. So in my like, getting to know me, packets that I would give to people, know, to my students and all that. The one thing I preach on almost more than anything else, there's a few things I preach to every, every single cohort I have, but the number one thing, and I blatantly rip it off from the character of Deadpool and Marvel and the MCU, and it's hashtag maximum effort. It is his tagline, it is, you know, and he'll go off to do something crazy and he's like, maximum effort. And off he goes. And I don't know, yeah, I don't know, can't pinpoint why I like it so much in the character, other than it's just like, well, I may not like what I'm about to do, or maybe this isn't what I planned to do, but I'm gonna give it my all anyway. And so my lesson to my students and my lesson to anybody listening here is that you maximize every opportunity that comes your way. Whether that's, everybody automatically goes to skills. Yeah, if you have the opportunity to do a skill. Don't be like nursing school Eric, I've talked about that before. Don't be the one going, let so and so do it. It's fine, I'm gonna hide in the corner here. Sure, it applies to skills, but it applies to everything, every facet of your nursing school experience, whether it's in the hospital, whether it's in the classroom, whether it's whatever, you give that maximum effort and you will see rewards like you can't even imagine. because you are, and what goes hand in hand with that, so I guess there's two pieces of advice, one and a half, is the thing that goes hand in hand with that is being the best version of you that day. Whatever that looks like. It doesn't mean you have to, we're always like, well, you're always aiming to get better, as long as you're better next year than you were this year. And then, and yeah, you should have sort of a trajectory that goes up, but let's be real about life, right? Like you and I have talked about that, Kate. You'll have years, months to years of life that just, dovetail, dovespin into the ground and you're just in a valley and whatever the case may be. So you may not have that continual growth, but in the midst of even those moments, if you can be the best version of you that day, then you are giving the best possible energy you can of yourself that day and giving that maximum effort. That's awesome. Maximum effort, hashtag. I like how you, I like how you put all the, I'm not copywriting anything. You've all do so where there's, yeah. It's awesome. at the end of it. I love that from Cobra Kai. Put a hash brown at the end of it. I also like to say to my students, and I'll do it like once or twice, probably once a quarter, so they don't get sick of my joke, but it's not a joke at all. I say, so who showed up this morning, it's 6.30 in the morning, who showed up and really doesn't wanna be here? And they all are like, me, some are like me. And I'm like, neither do your patients. And guess who gets to go home today for sure, you do, they don't. So get up there, love on them, and you get to go home to do whatever you were gonna do. Bring your best self because I mean, they don't want to be here either. So we're going to go take care of them. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of fun. They all go, Well, awesome. Well, I know you're given maximum effort. I'll do the hashtag, hashtag maximum effort. And thanks for letting me flip the script today. Yeah. This has been hashtag fun. you're hired. 100%. Kate Joy will have honorary host Kate on occasion. She'll show up. The irony of all this is, and there's a pair of nurses that I know and work with in different respects that are good friends, and they've already talked about being dual hosts asking me questions. So the fact that they're actually gonna probably gonna be like, what? You mean this has already happened? I'll be like, yeah, it's already happened a little bit, but they can do it too. It's fine, I'll spin it. Maybe what we do from this point forward is every episode is a double episode. And the first one is me asking the questions, and then the second one is that, I'm just kidding, we're not, that's me going off on whole different tangent, so. you know, you and you and me could probably do that, but not everybody's as much of a talker. But if I think if you're signing up for Eric's podcast, you at least don't mind talking. So that's where I went with it. Like if you're considering doing one of these, was I nervous? Yes. Why was I nervous nursing student? Because I care because I want to do a good job. I'm not mocking. I'm mocking myself in a positive way. You know what? And then I let my yes be yes. And when I finally told Eric, yes, I'm doing this, I showed up. even though I still a little bit like, what am I going to say? And you can do it. You can do it. Yeah. we got done with that first intro. And as soon as we stopped recording, Kate's like, just, was, my gosh, I was a little nervous. I'm like, I can't tell you how many people get like that. And it's funny to me, because it's like, we're talking nursing instructors, people who talk in front of people for a living, let alone students and that sort of thing. But just, it doesn't matter. It's... The point is like you are contributing to this thing we call nursing and that's what matters. That's all that matters. It doesn't matter how we're gonna stumble, we're gonna say the wrong things. I fluently tell, I tell people all the time that oftentimes if there's anyone who knows the taste of their own foot, it's me. My foot lives in my mouth way too more often than it should. Less often than it used to. Yep. And my foot, right? Like yeah. Hashtag feet, hashtag fun. All right. Well, thank you, Kate. It's been an honor being on your show today. Thank you for having me and being here and all the things. This is amazing. I love it. Okay. lovely, lovely rest of your day, my friend. Will do. Amen. Hallelujah. Bye. Bye.