92 - Hallie Butler: I Don’t Ever Want to Stop Getting Better

Join nurse, nurse educator, nurse practitioner, and San Diego, California, Austin, Texas, and Spokane, Washington native Honored Guest Hallie Butler as she discusses chasing education, the adventure she didn’t chose for herself, God’s role in her life, instilling confidence in her students, having instructors that were “out to fail” her, still having anxiety for sims, having a baby during nursing school, the incredible things she is doing with her advanced education, and more!

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Transcript

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Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Feeding Our Young podcast. I'm so excited to introduce today's honored guest for many, many reasons. The person that I'm with today is an amazing human being, inspires me in many facets of my life, not only as a nurse, but as a nursing instructor, and just reaching beyond what you think is possible for yourself. And I can't thank her enough for that. And we'll dive into that story in a little bit here. But in the meantime, everyone, welcome Hallie Butler to Studio Hallie. How the heck are you today? Hi, Eric. I'm so excited to be with you today. Thank you so much for having me. my gosh, I'm so glad you're here. And so we'll just cut straight to the chase so nobody's left wondering. So, Hallie, would you like to describe how you remember meeting me? sure. So we go back, it probably like seven or eight years now. I was in labor and delivery at Sacred Heart and you were on MomBaby. And so sometimes I would have patients for you, but that didn't happen very often. But that's how I originally met you, is just a staff nurse at the hospital, which was awesome. And then I actually, you'll probably have to remind me how we ended up getting hooked up with the teaching, but I was teaching OB clinicals. And I think you approached me because you like loved it and wanted to do it, right? Yeah, you had a practicum student. Well, excuse me, let me back up. I had one of your practicum students. And so as was my tradition, knowing that I wanted to be an instructor when I grew up, if I grew up, that's always still in question, that I knew that what I needed to, like I'm a researcher, we've already established that. So I would ask people, how do you do this? How do you do that? What did you do, et cetera, et cetera. So that was kind of how he was one, the last link. in a long line of instructors who I just peppered with questions. And I said, hey, if you don't mind me, like, we can get together for coffee or something. And you so graciously said, yes, by all means. And we sat down and I left that meeting. Like that was the final impetus for like, okay, now's the time. Like I need to stop dragging my feet and get this going. And so thank you for that. You will always hold a special place in my professional. life there for that reason. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Yes, but enough about me. Let's talk about you. Where are from? What degrees do you hold? Where did you graduate from? well, I'm originally a California girl. grew up in San Diego and when my husband and I moved to Austin, Texas, I had been a teacher and hated it. And so I went to nursing school in Austin, Texas. which was, I was at a, at a state tuition, for that. So I went to the Austin community college and it was a great experience. Although the most challenging thing I've ever had in my life. I then, we ended up moving to Washington state a few years back. I was still an L and D nurse at that point. And then I decided I really want to be a nursing instructor. So I decided to go back to school. And I got a BSN online from Chamberlain University. And then I went to Gonzaga and I got my master's in nursing. I graduated in 2003 from Gonzaga with a nurse practitioner degree. So that was a super fun experience. Yeah. when I think when I say it all out loud and then I think back to like, how much time I've spent in school over my life, it's kind of disgusting. And yet so worth it, right? Maybe, ultimately? go back for more. And my husband's like, no, you can't go to school anymore. That's enough school. I'm like, no, I want more. it's an addictive thing though, isn't it? Like you're like, well, I mean, I could just do one more thing, right? Like just one more thing. I just need one more set of letters after my name. I do. Well, over the years, I've had a bunch of different letters. I currently have let go of my advanced, like my RN certification, my RNC, which was an inpatient OB. so I've let that lapse. So I'm no longer an OB certified nurse. I don't have any of the, advanced, life savings, cardiac skills or nursing, like a respiratory thing, NRP and the ACLS and, EFM monitoring. don't have any of those anymore, which is great. the only letters that I'm currently rocking are my board certification as a nurse practitioner. from the ANCC, which is, I have the letters FNP for Family Nurse Practitioner, BC, board certified. And that's because that's how ANCC has their board certifications. I could just be APRN, that's what I see a lot in practice. I usually assign my like prescription scripts with APRN. That's what my resume says, but that's because people know that you're an advanced practice nurse, but people who know what the certifications mean, FNPBC means. who I'm certified by. That's my board certifying body. Very, very cool. And for those that don't know Miss Hallie she doesn't stand on pretense. This is just something we decided to ask because it's not as though she enters the room and you must kiss the ring and all the things. And I say that because there are some people who have those, you know, they chase those things and they seek the prestige, they seek the position as opposed to, you whatever. I don't know. We'll leave that where that's at. Someday you might have to call me Dr. Butler, someday, but not right now. Uh-huh, yeah. If I ever get those letters, I will definitely walk in a room and make you tell me that. Well, yeah, it's so much work. Goodness gracious. Yeah, 100%. You've well earned that title at that point. All right, so before we delve too deeply into the things you want to talk about, what are three words that you would use, Hallie, to describe nursing school? this one was tricky for me because all the words that kept coming up were like the same word, hard, challenging, challenging, awful, horrible, like all of those same, brutal, killer, killer, you know, yeah. So I kept, all of those words kept coming up. So I just decided to pick hard, but then. To piggyback off of that, I'd say anxiety was probably the next big word. I don't really remember having anxiety like I had that started in nursing school. I don't think I had anxiety ever before in my life on the level that I had starting in nursing school. And part of that was because I went and got pregnant right in the middle of nursing school. And so I had my first baby, which was another reason why it was. hard and challenging. But I would say in the long run, now that I can look back on nursing school, I would say accomplishment would be my third word because it was so hard and I got so much anxiety through that process, but I still was able to accomplish it. And I've since gone back to school multiple times to multiple nursing programs and I love it so much. It has been the most rewarding thing I've ever done. So accomplishment has been a really big one on there for me. Mmm. the other question I'd to ask in the opening salvo, what are three of your favorite songs in life right now? This one was also tricky because I've been singing on my worship team at church for the last year-ish. And so I have songs all the time that I'm like actively singing. And so those ones tend to stick in my head. And we just had, like we're celebrating our one year anniversary as a church this weekend and I'm leading a song called Holy Spirit Come. And it is so good. It's such a good song. And I feel like I... It's a really good, it's a really beautiful song. And then, but last weekend I sang a song called Trust in God and I actually gave my testimony and it was so crazy and hard. We're gonna get into that a little bit about what's been going on in my life in the last year and a half. But I'd say those two are probably really big ones and you might not know those songs. So if you're gonna keep in the same vein, I'd say anything by Brandon Lake or Phil Wickham are in my top songs right now. But then there's a really good oldie that keeps, Alexa keeps playing for me from my songs I like. It's a Lauryn Hill song called, Can't Take My Eyes Off of You. It's a cover. She does a cover of that song. Super good. wow. So I'm, I am now realizing the mistake of the order of service that I've done things, because we are going from the super spiritual to the new thing that I'm doing with everyone right at the beginning, which takes us so far in the opposite direction. I'm going to ask you five questions that you have not prepared for, correct? This is called, this is our new feeding our young unauthorized personality test. And I won't explain anything afterwards, but by you giving the five answers you give, I'm just trusting that we will automatically know what type of person you are. Okay, you ready? All right, here we go. Hallie Butler, this is your life. Just kidding. Okay, team pie or team cake? Pie. Instantly learn a new language or instrument. instrument. You have a time machine. Are you going to go back in time or are you going to see the future? Ooh that's a hard one. Forward. Let's go forward. is Wham's Last Christmas a Christmas song? I don't know that song. I need a yes or a no. George Michael, George Michael secular song talks about giving his heart away and all the things. that one. Wham Yeah, no. And would you rather have the ability to fly or breathe underwater? There it is. So for the, mean, without knowing the song, of course, I mean, you had answers for three out of those five, just boom, boom, boom. And now that you've given us those answers, we automatically know what type of person you are. I don't know what that means yet. I'm gonna probably reverse engineer this as people give me answers and be like, that must mean you're amazing because, you know, here we are. All right, well. Let's just jump right into some of those things that you wanted to talk about. And I think we've kind of hinted at it a few times here, but you've been through it a bit. You normally like to start like young Hallie, why you got into nursing, all that business. We're going to flip it on the script here, flip the script on its head. You've been through it over the last year and a half, couple years here. this is someone who's faced some pretty serious things. So Hallie. What kind of adventure have you been on these last two years? Well, it's been one that I didn't choose for myself. And I think that's probably why I would still say that nursing school was the hardest thing I ever did, because I picked to do that. A cancer diagnosis, obviously you don't ever sign up for. So although that's obviously been super challenging, and I have done it, I've gotten through it. It wasn't because of my own strength. Like I had to muscle through nursing school. Hahaha Yeah. that took a lot of grit, but yeah, so I'm, I've almost finished all of the things that oncology says to do when you get the diagnosis where I've been at. So I've been through chemo and radiation and my first surgery as a double mastectomy. And then I still have another surgery to look forward to soon. And then we just started like hormone blockers recently and some more oral chemo for prevention, which I was supposed to be on for quite a while. So it's been really the probably the most interesting journey in my life to be on the other side of patient care. Yeah, It sounds like you are very much a woman of faith. You have a very strong faith. Obviously, that's gonna help you get through this, but in not discounting that in any way, shape, form, how has that helped you, and how else have you navigated these rough waters of a cancer diagnosis and then kicking Hmm. Well, honestly, I, so I gave my testimony at church last week because we were just finishing up, sermon series about praise and about the importance of giving thanks and how song and music is, and just joyful noises are a way, to really flip the script about any situation that you're facing. And I got much more involved with the worship team after I had gotten diagnosed with cancer. And it was mostly because I set a goal for myself that like, I wasn't gonna stop moving forward because of chemo, which I wanted to do. And I still want to do, I still am like drug back, I'm so heavy from this cancer baggage that I'm carrying that I don't. I still haven't really completely let go of, although I know God's carried most of it for me the whole time. But if I wasn't actively giving thanks for all the other blessings that I have in my life during that time, it would be a lot harder to faith. And I couldn't say that I have any idea how someone without a faith makes it through cancer, because it was real hard and I wouldn't have done it without God. Yeah, very well said, very well said. We're just open up heavy here, everybody. Yeah, why not? That's kind of how I roll. Like, just let it out, man. Just let it Well, let's talk about it, because you talk about all those other things you have to be thankful for and all the other blessings you have in your life. What makes that list? well, my sons, my family, my husband, we're gonna celebrate 20 years of marriage this year. And he's been through all of those colleges with me. He went through all of my nursing colleges. He's actually helped pay for all of those, which is probably why he's trying to put a cap on that. Yeah, it started with my teaching credential after my bachelor's in biology. But the support of my husband and my family is absolutely the highest on my list of Thanksgiving. as we record this, I'm sitting in my living room and I have a view of Liberty Lake and the mountains and the snow on the hills, because it's wintertime as we're talking about this, and it's just beautiful outside. I love the place we live. I've lived in a lot of beautiful places. Like I said, I'm a California, I'm a beach baby. And like I've lived in a lot of beautiful beaches. went to college in Santa Barbara, which is just gorgeous. But Spokane is the most beautiful place I think I've ever lived overall. So I'm very thankful. Yeah. I'm gonna back you on that one. I'm 100%, it gets a bad rap and it drives me nuts. No, it is a beautiful area. with that, having faced that, let's just work our way backwards then. We're gonna take, even though you would take a time machine moving forwards, we'll get back to that. Let's work backwards. So you've just had this horrendous battle with cancer prior to facing this beast. What, like, take us back just a few years? Like, what did life look like for you before it was turned on its head? Hmm. Well, so I had decided to go back to school because I really wanted to be a nursing instructor. I loved being a labor and delivery nurse and I wanted I loved the opportunity to help the students that came through whether it's a new staff member that needed precepting or nursing students like I just have a heart to teach. I was a teacher before I became a nurse. So that was on my list and I had to go through school during COVID, like a lot of y'all have to face. And so I was doing my bachelor's of nursing, which was all online pretty much anyway. But then I started my nurse practitioner program in 2020. And doing all of that during COVID was obviously a top or two. Yeah, if you go through nursing school period, that's really hard, but doing it during COVID, my goodness, that's a whole nother thing. Whole nother thing. Yeah, but in the couple years before my diagnosis, I was like kicking butt in nursing school. Like I made honor society, which was so hard and you doesn't even matter if you got A's or not. It doesn't matter. Like you have to, have to get C's right? Like you gotta do, you gotta pass. But ultimately everything that I really learned about being a nurse and a good nurse is been as a nurse, not as a student. So, Really what I wanted to facilitate by being coming an instructor was the confidence to start practicing nursing because you get so cut up in the books, which you need to read the books and you have to do the modules and the Sims and like you have to study and you have to review it probably way more than you want to. But learning that stuff makes you feel more confident and the confidence that you bring into your nursing role. makes all the difference, I think, in both your nursing school experience, but definitely your experience as a new nurse and taking care of patients. It's all about confidence. And there's a difference between confidence and humility and confidence and pride. But I love getting to work with nursing students to help with some of that anxiety. Because like I said, my first nursing school program, my associate's degree in nursing, was the most anxiety I've ever had in my Mm, we're gonna get there. We're gonna get there, because I wanna hear that story. But I love what you're talking about, because it reminds me, I was told once, that there's a very fine line between confidence and cockiness. And it's easy to cross over one to the other. And really, it's a matter of heart, right? If you're coming in, here's the test, because everybody, I've had students ask me, well, how do know if you're overconfident? And I'm like, well, the fact that you have to ask that question means you're not. Because if you're overconfident, don't know. Like you just, you're like, oh, I've got this. This is it. I'm good. I'm going to be an amazing nurse. I don't have any questions. I got this. Thank you. That is the hallmark quality of an overconfident slash cocky nurse, right? How does one prevent themselves from getting that way? I mean, I don't think that's a huge issue for many of the listeners in our listening audience, but there are a select few that are like, Man, I've just been the best at everything that I've done, and therefore I have to put on this air of being the best of my class, my cohort, whatever. What would you say to those students? Yeah, that's really tricky because I like I thought I was really good in high school I and then I got to college for the first time at UC UC Santa Barbara and I was like, this is this is the first time I've been academically challenged really and I got a degree in biology, you know in four years with good grades that then meant nothing because I graduated and then it was in the real world. And then I went back to a community college level for nursing school. And I was like, as a grown adult, was now, I think I was 28 when I started nursing school as a associate for my associate's degree. And it was the hardest thing that I had ever done and up until that point academically, it was so challenging, the rigor, the amount of content, the amount of reading, the amount of knowledge that was required while you're both. getting theoretical knowledge and practical skills, you're trying to learn hands on stuff too. It was so hard. so I think probably just having had some life experience before going into that program probably was what made it so I was like, I don't know anything. Yeah. Amazing. but I don't know how you convince someone else to do that. I will say that all my nursing school experience, both as a associates degree nurse and then as a master's degree prepared nurse, I was mostly working with older students. So not the 20 year old Gonzaga student that I typically was working with as a faculty. And I think there's something to be said with the coming into nursing school as an older adult, maybe a second career. which is what I was doing, I had a very different expectation of what I was capable of, I think, than what I see in some of my students. And I think it's just based on a lack of worldly experience, which I don't think is a bad thing necessarily. Yeah. You just got to be ready for life's lessons. want, you know, I mean, they always say pain is a great teacher, but I would rather learn in less painful ways if I can. I'll embrace the pain as it comes for sure. But sometimes that pain is self-inflicted, right? Yeah, and no matter what, absolutely firmly believe just like with a cancer diagnosis or something really hard like during nursing school is when you overcome those hard things and you keep pushing the pedal to the metal and you make it to the next deadline, because you didn't quit and you didn't give up, I feel like the strength that you gain from that, that sense of accomplishment, that's how you really know when you're growing and becoming better. That's the practice, right? being willing to keep trying and you might make a mistake along the way, but as you keep going, you keep learning, you keep growing, you keep getting better. And I don't ever want to stop getting better. not advocating for the lack of celebrating those accomplishments, right? Like for sure, that doesn't make you overconfident or anything like that. Celebrate those accomplishments as you reach those, right Hallie? Yeah, because that feeds into the next challenge you have. that's you build this momentum and you keep going and you keep going. So going back to nursing school, you said you were 28, which is fascinating to me. That means you graduated roughly about 30, yeah, with your associates, yeah, yeah. Because that's, I did not, that was a little fun fact. See, I get to learn things about people even I know. Because that was my story. I got my associate's degree at 30 years old and you know, a little bit, a little bit more life. We already had a few kids and another one on the way and all the things. But take us back to nursing student Hallie, associate nursing student Hallie. you talk about this anxiety, you talk about it. So everybody first of all, right there, if you don't hear anything else, you've got someone who's faced many, many things in life and she's saying, this was one of the most anxiety producing sessions of her life, one of those eras. So talk to us, the mic is all yours, I'm gonna shut my mouth up and talk to us about what it was like going into it, how you felt, why nursing? Why did you even go into nursing from education, for example, too? Well, I love teaching. I love the opportunity to teach people things and surprise, surprise eighth grade boys and girls don't some of them just don't care about the science that I was trying to teach them at the time. I got, I wanted to pivot and shift out of that environment. And I got into healthcare because actually my dad got real sick and ended up passing away. And in the experience of watching his hospice and stuff, it helped me become aware that I have the personality that was really well suited to deal with those hard life things. And it was in that time that my aunt was basically like, you need to go to be a nurse. And I don't think I even knew what a nurse was at that time. So it wasn't until I went to the hospital to help him as he was passing that I even learned what a nurse was. And it was like a no brainer at that point. I saw an opening out of teaching, which I hated into this whole new thing that I didn't even know existed. It was like my eyes were open to a new part of life when I learned about what nursing was. And so I haven't looked back since then, except as I was going through nursing school. And like I said, it was so anxiety producing. think the probably the part that was so hard was my nursing instructors were fricking mean. They were like out to fail you, man. They put you on the spot to like test you under fire. And if you failed, they like made you feel bad about it. It was horrible. It was horrible. And these were professional nurses. These were nurses that were probably 10, 20 years older than me. I was still an adult. I was 30 years old. I owned a home. I had been married for five years. Like I wasn't some slacker kiddo, you know. I already had a bachelor's degree, you know. It was like, and I felt horrible. And every day I've spent so much time going in. to like look up patient charts ahead of time, to review all the meds and like all the diagnosis. my nursing books were like so dirty and bent by the end because I spent so much time in them. You know, I can't imagine what it would have been like to have an instructor like you, Eric, when I was going through nursing school. and how different my nursing school experience would have been, how different my experience as a pregnant person for the first time and my experience as a new mom for the first time, if I wasn't carrying the weight of that anxiety, that was partially self-inflicted because it was partially because I didn't feel like I knew enough. I knew I didn't know enough. I still don't know enough. And so I was scared to make mistakes. mostly because of the way my instructors had set up the learning environment that making mistakes was a bad thing. And I don't think making mistakes is a bad thing. I think making mistakes is an awesome thing as long as you're willing to learn from them. And everybody can learn from it. And so I want everybody to talk about the mistakes that they make because I would rather make less mistakes by learning from your mistakes. So that's really where I wanted to become a nursing instructor was because I was like, there's gotta be a better way. Yeah, yeah, and that's evident in your practice. And I love that. you feel like those instructors as painful as that was? Did they make you a better person? Is that something you're grateful for on the backside? yes, because in a twisted sick way, they pushed me, they kept pushing me. I kept, I kept going, but I could see, I could totally see how you would just throw in the towel and say, screw this. And if like, especially looking back on that opportunity, cause I don't remember wanting to quit nursing school. I don't think that I was ever in an option in my mind because I knew it was going to be so good. I didn't know how good it was going to be. And I would feel so bad. for someone who thinks that nursing might be the right career for them, but they are so put off by the experience of learning how to be a nurse that they quit. When we need nurses so bad, and that need is not going away, if we can't help support and uplift and train people to do a job and do it well and confidently, and instead we turn it into this like diagnosis producing experience, because again, that was the first time in my life I had anxiety. I feel like that's a problem. That was a problem. Yeah, yeah, very much so. Can you, is it possible to foster a mistake-free environment based on what you're talking about? No, I don't want a mistake free environment. I think our errors, our weaknesses are, are, turn into strengths and they are a great teacher. They are a great learning opportunity. And I, I want to foster safe mistakes and the opportunity to make mistakes in an environment that is constructive and supportive and that helps people learn. think Sims are great for that reason because They are a great way to practice. I mean, how much anxiety do you have going into a simulation? Are you kidding me? Just thinking about it still stresses me out. When I go to Gonzaga to help run a sim, I have anxiety for the students. Still, 20 years after going to nursing school, practically 20 years since I graduated from nursing school originally, I have anxiety for a simulation. There it is, ladies and gentlemen. There it is, right there. No! It does go away. It totally goes away. I just keep putting myself back in those environments because I want to overcome my fears and improve that for others really. Well, and you bring a memory to my mind that I haven't thought about in quite some time and going through back to my community college days. for me, was I always called it my four year, two year degree because it took me, I was working full time. So two years for the one class at a quarter prereqs. And then I could get into nursing school. so then you meet the people that are in the sciences that are trying to get into nursing. And so you all kind of you form study groups and that sort of thing. And there were many of an amazing person who, and I'm sure they're doing amazing things now, but they didn't, not speaking exactly to what you're talking about, but they didn't even get into nursing school because they couldn't make the grade. They couldn't make the grade of this, that, or the other. And I'm like, I can tell you right now as a, the time, 26, 27, 28 year old, I'm like, that person would be an amazing nurse. But because this one thing is gonna keep them out of the field, mm-hmm. And so then to hear you say the same thing, like when you have instructors that are like, you're never gonna foster an environment where everybody's just so like, that's okay, you're gonna be all right. Like there are times, I mean, you've gotta do your work. You've gotta pull up your bootstraps and you gotta like make it happen. But on that note, we also don't have to demean you and turn you into less than human just because you made a mistake, right? Yeah, agreed, agreed. Man, Hallie, I just love, like, I could talk nursing instruction with you forever, never mind that, like, never mind the whole nursing thing. Okay, so, I mean, in the middle there, talk about your nursing career. Like, how did you end up in labor and delivery? You've kind of touched on why you wanted to teach, but why the steps you took when you took Yeah, so I like I went into nursing school knowing a little bit about hospice. So my thought was I'm gonna go be a hospice nurse, because that was what I knew about. And while I was in nursing school, a friend of mine had a baby. And because I was in nursing school, and she was like trying to foster a learning environment for me, she's like, come, come watch me have my baby. And I was hooked. I was a hooked man. I think I might've been early pregnant at that time. As I look back on it, I think I was already pregnant. So I was more interested from that perspective. And although my labor and delivery rotation was not great, especially compared to what I try to foster for my students, or when I was a labor and delivery nurse, I tried hard to give the students that I had worked with a better experience. I knew that I loved it. And then, the selfish, scared student in me knew that if I got into a specialty, I would have a narrower window of stuff I had to know when I got out of school. And so I passed my NCLEX, man, barely by the skin of my teeth, but I knew when I went into practice, I didn't have to know all that stuff. I wanted to get really good at something. And OB was the opportunity to do that. One of my friends from nursing school was actually a tech on the floor that she got us both jobs at basically. So we got hired right out of school in a specialty, which at that time nobody was doing. So I felt so fortunate that I never had to be a MedSurg nurse, because I feel like that was like a sentence in death. For me, for me, and I'm so thankful for the nurses that fulfill that role that I could not do because we need we need those people and gosh that is such good experience. But no I got into labor delivery right away. I like I said before I had my first baby right in the middle of nursing school. Literally I was like super pregnant during my OB rotation. I was the biggest I was like so close to having a baby during my OB rotation. I ended up taking a class early in the summer so that I could have the baby and then take a little bit of time off. before having to start the next class. I ended up graduating on time because I did that, even though I had a baby right, literally like I had a textbook with me when I was at the hospital, because I was about to take my final. Like literally like the next week the final was. So I had my baby, I took my final, and then I got to take a couple of weeks off to have my new baby at home. It was a hybrid program, so it ended up working out really great. I didn't really have to miss much of my little baby being at home with him. That was really cool. gosh, it was really hard having having a baby brain and midnight feedings and stuff while I'm trying to learn how to be a nurse. That was super hard. Couple other girls in my program got pregnant like right after me. And so they were like a semester behind me and had babies and they took extra time to graduate. I was able to graduate on time. I don't know how I mean, must have been the miracle of God because I don't know the timing was perfect. It worked out great. I was able to finish it. Yeah. And then I had my one year old with me at graduation. was so, he was such a big boy. It was very cool. I was so proud of that accomplishment. that, honestly, that picture of my baby son and I at graduation from nursing school was the most proud moment of my life that I did both of those really hard things. That was awesome. Mm. As you should be. And those, I mean, those that are listening, like, we've had a few honored guests who have had babies during nursing school. Obviously not me, I didn't have that experience, but my wife sure did. And that sure takes effect on the spouse. you know, it's, and again, we'll never demean anyone. You go through nursing school and you're already like, man, this is brutal. As you've heard time and time and time and time and time again, including right now. Yes, it's brutal. It's brutal. care if you can't have a baby or you didn't have a baby or you're done having babies or you're never having babies. It's brutal. And then you add to that these life circumstances, people who face the death of loved ones or having babies and things of that nature. So I don't ever want to say, the whole crux of this is not listen to this and then make yourself feel bad because you feel like you're in a bad place even though you have none of those things going on. It's the opposite. Be encouraged. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. You can do it. Yeah. say to yourself, you say, okay, I'm not having a baby right now. I'm not experiencing the death of a loved one. All I have, quote unquote, all I have is this brutal nursing school. And that hopefully energizes you to then kind of give that breath of fresh air and like, no, I can do this. I'm gonna do this. Yeah. Hallie, I love it, I love it, I love it. Okay, well, with that then, let's talk about, so. I feel like we've kind of come full circle because you started out talking about experiencing healthcare from the patient side of things after being a long tenured nurse and you're kind of taking us back to the beginning when you were a patient while learning how to become a nurse. So bringing that all the way back around full circle now that you are you're you've been a nurse practitioner you're potentially going back for your doctorate someday hopefully the hubby doesn't hear this too soon. you. I mean, it's no surprise, right? So you've got this advanced education. You're using this advanced education. What have you done with this education? What are you doing with this education to better your patients? Thank you for asking it that way. I really appreciate it. Yeah, so I'm working at a little clinic right now where we do a lot of different not primary care stuff, which is what I went to school to be a primary care provider to help prevent preventable diseases, to help keep people healthy so that if hypertension or diabetes or some of these big diagnoses comes up that they're the healthiest they can be to keep that from happening. But what I'm doing now instead is I'm working in a clinic where we're doing stem cell injections and we're treating neuropathy with like electrical current. And it sounds super kind of weird hippie, it's a really neat regenerative. It's a neat time to be in regenerative medicine because there's all these new scientific advancements coming out and new treatments and new medications, both treatments that are non-medical medicine and pharmacologic treatments. So that's super fun. but what I've enjoyed the most as a healthcare provider and being able to educate patients about how to keep themselves healthy is some of the strategies that are like free that are not medicine based strategies. And actually right now I've been teaching a community based class for fasting. so we just came out of January and holidays and so everybody's got January, New Year's resolutions. I'll be really interested, to see once. the next couple of months come around, how many people are still doing this? Like if, this episode airs, if any of my fasting group people are still doing it at that time, I'll be so excited. But we're basically like teaching people how to do things like, because there's all kinds of new science coming out in the last couple of years about fasting, intermittent fasting, time-restricted eating, and how changing your circadian rhythm with the stimulus of food, how you can affect all kinds of hormone productions, sleep patterns, regeneration for healing, both for pain and for fat loss. Like it's crazy the implications that fasting has on people, but your doctor doesn't have time to sit down with you to teach you how to do it. There's all kinds of books and stuff out there that you could research and do, but you know, some people don't want to educate themselves. And so the people who really need the support, I want to make it as easy for them to understand how some of these really lifestyle behavior modifications are something feasible that they could put into their life. And it's been super fun because people are seeing not only weight loss, they're sleeping better. I'm having some of my friends are having less joint pain. And this is all just because I've offered to teach a class about how to fast. It's so cool. It's so cool. Yeah. And we're just, we just have really only been in the last month doing it. So it hasn't been going on for very long. I anticipate being able to expand these courses. and be able to walk a lot more people through fasting. That's kind of the next project that I'm working on outside of all the jobs that I have right now already. Preaching to the choir! laughing because you know all about that you and I you and I don't really stop that good We really like we don't like to slow down. We just want to keep producing we want to do like what's the next thing? Where do I see a need that I can meet and that's what you're doing That's what this podcast is all about when I heard about it was so excited because I saw your heart for students before you became a nursing instructor and that's why I was like so excited to to walk with you in taking, you took over my class and I wouldn't have let that go very easily because I loved doing that. But I know you're doing an even better job than I was doing and it's so cool to know that like, you're, you know, there's so many opportunities and opportunities in nursing. That's probably the reason I didn't know how good a career nursing was when I first got into it. And the longer that I've now in nursing school, which I graduated in 2011, from nursing school. So I've been in nursing for quite a while now in various different states and in different roles, both inpatient hospital, outpatient clinic, as a nurse practitioner, like as a school nurse, as a nursing instructor, like you can do so many things as an RN. It is so amazing. So amazing to be a nurse. I love it. Especially this time after coming through a pandemic, after seeing what our... population is doing, our aging population, like we need so many more nurses. We need people to be creative and come up with new ways to support health in whatever that looks like, whether it's training new people on the boots on the ground to keep them going and motivating them to encourage them to get through some of the hardest things you're ever gonna do in your life. Or whether it's like. working with people, like I'm doing a church-based small group basically for fasting. I'm teaching at the gym how to fast. Like it's so cool that there are so many things you could do. Mm. I just can't, like, we can tell this to you, listener, whether you're a nursing student, casual listener, hopefully we still got you on board, casual listener, but whoever we're talking to, we can tell this to you until we're blue in the face. What you just said about I didn't know how amazing nursing was when I first got into it, and yet. You had an idea, I had an idea. know, like when I got into nursing, I'm like, this is perfect. This is right up my alley. It looks very rewarding. It looks challenging. It looks amazing. I'm excited to try and do this thing. And yet, we are telling you right now, being on the other side of this by however many years, do the math, that it's so true. You cannot possibly, even if you take what Hallie just said and what I'm saying right now. about nursing being the most rewarding career you could ever be in whatsoever. And you're gonna be like, yeah, it is. You still have zero clue until, and you'll hit a point, I don't care whether it's five years, 10 years, 15 or plus, down the road where you go, that's what they meant. I I knew it was gonna be awesome, but I never knew it was going to be this level of just freedom and empowerment and helping others, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. The most rewarding thing ever. And honestly, not even just rewarding monetarily, although it is a very well-paying job if you get the right gig. Just the, yeah, being able to help people is so cool when somebody, after you've taken care of them, when you get that note, which doesn't happen all the time, but you get it every once in a while, when you get that note from a previous patient or a previous student that says, helped me. Gosh, you can just ride that for so long. I've got this box of all the notes and all the thank you cards I've ever gotten from patients and from students, from other nurses, you know, like it fills my heart. And when I'm not feeling good and when it gets challenging and hard, I go back to my box of cards and I look and see like how many people I have impacted. And that's only a small fragment, a tiny fragment. speak out about it. And it's not, again, it's not Hallie sitting there like, need an ego boost. What this is is like, you have those moments where you're like, I'm not making a difference. I've been a nurse for eight, nine, 10 years, whatever. And you're just like, I'm not feeling like I'm making a difference. Or you feel like, know, whatever it is that's got you down. And you need those reminders. You go back, make that box. Make that box like she just said. I've got all of mine is. are down in storage, I know exactly, you know what mean? Like, I gotta hunt a little bit for it, but every once in I've had to pull those back out. And like, cause you forget, your memory is so like, it's so funny how short term it is, you know what I mean? And you're like, oh, that's right, I remember that patient. I mean, oh man, Hallie, don't, so not tooting my own horn in any way, shape or form. It's just funny you said that, because just last week I had my new hire that I'm training, right? So she's doing a bulk of the work. We're near the end of everything. She's in the room. She's doing the work. I'm helping her out. I'm helping everybody out. Whatever I can do. And this couple comes in. They're visiting someone who just had a baby. And they look at me and they're like, my gosh, Eric, how are you? you took care of us and they look familiar to me but I'm getting the age where everybody looks familiar, you know? So, but they look familiar. Like, Eric, you helped us when we were da-da-da-da-da and they talked about their baby and they talked about this and I'm just like, I'm literally like tears at the nurse's station. I've given him hugs because it's just like, man, you don't know what you don't know. And you, like that day for all I know, like I'm sure I was the best version of myself, blah, blah, blah, what I preach. But it doesn't mean you go home feeling like you were the best. You know what mean? You did your job. And sometimes you go home and you're like, I did my job today and I hope it made a difference. And you just maybe, maybe I never get that feedback. And when you do, it's, it's so sustaining, right? It's meaning, very, very meaningful. Yeah, I would say that that's, I haven't gone back as a patient to the nurses that have, who gave me my chemo and stuff. Like I haven't gone back to them. I haven't given them a thank you note. I haven't brought them a gift basket. I haven't done any of that kind of stuff. And as a nurse, when those patients do that, it's like the most meaningful thing. And here I am with the opportunity to do that. And I haven't done that yet. So I have to, that's like. I feel a little guilty about that right now because it makes me feel so good. It makes me feel so good as a nurse when somebody appreciates you, you know. zero guilt. You just, know what you're doing when we're done with this. She's off, she's making the basket. It's happening, y'all. I see them in a couple of weeks. So I go back, still go to see those same nurses pretty regularly for appointments. So I have lots of opportunities to go back. So I'm just gonna put it on my next calendar to put something together for the next time I go. Okay, we're approaching the end of your episode here, obviously. I have to ask this though, because this is just a unique opportunity. I would like to know your personal opinion on the whole, and some of you may not understand where we're going with this yet, and I'll explain, but what is your personal opinion on whether or not your medical staff know that you, as the patient, are a nurse? Mm. I don't tell them right off the bat. Because I don't want to make them nervous. Because when I take care of health care providers, it makes me nervous. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like I'm a, so yesterday I gave an IV push at my clinic, a vitamin IV push to a dentist. And just the fact that he's a dentist and knows, he doesn't know anything about IV pushes. He doesn't do that. That's not, he's a retired dentist. So he does not even like, not even actively in it. And yet I am so concerned that I'm gonna leave a good impression as my skills as a nurse practitioner to him. It's so funny. It's so funny. I, I, then that's why we ask this because anyone who's out there who knows, it's, I, I annoy my peers. I know I annoy my peers when it comes to like, cause it doesn't matter whether I'm the one giving report as charge or we're getting report from the charges, we're starting our shift and they're like, you know, here's room so and so, and this person's a nurse and the spouse is a nurse practitioner. And I'm like, uh-oh. I guess I better wash my hands and treat them with respect this time. You know, it drives me nuts. And I try to not say it. I'm so sorry, you guys. I love you and I'm sorry I say it every time. But it is, like for me, like I always, I always told my wife if we were in the hospital for her or for the kids, I'm like, do not mention, because at the time I'm in peds oncology, right? So I'm like, do not say a word. Please do not say a word about me being a nurse, because it weirds people out. And there's no reason for that. And circling all the way back around. Talking about standing on pomp and circumstance, you will have those patients that want everyone to know that they're a nurse, they're a doctor, they're a whatever, and you better watch yourself. And it's just, it drives me crazy. It drives me crazy. I'm gonna take care of you with the best of my ability on any given day, regardless of what your background is. And if it's not good enough, then you're not gonna like me anyway, so. Yeah, yeah, I only think I think the only thing I do differently as a patient now is knowing what I know about the days of a nurse that are some days not the easiest or the best days. I go in there just trying to be like a character like I just try to be funny and like have a good time and like make jokes about myself and you know, support them any way that I can because I know that what they're doing I know their job is hard. It's totally different than tipping your barista. It's totally different than that, but way more important than the person who makes your coffee. Like the person who's caring for your health, way more important. Yep, and I'm not like, where do we start doing the dollar bills for the nurses when they come in? When does that start happening? You've heard it here first, we're gonna call it the Hallie Butler movement. All right. Well, and that, like you just said, that's a tip in and of itself, Like, having grace, knowing that that nurse is seeing so many other rooms, they're gonna come in and be apologetic, and you're just like, yeah, I get it, it's fine. Like, you know, because you're on the other side of it. Yeah. Before we wrap up, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you the all-important question, and that is that if you had one piece of advice that you want someone to walk away from your episode with, for any nursing student out there, from a perspective as a nurse, as a nurse practitioner, as an instructor, whatever, you wear whatever hat or hats you want to wear, what is the one piece of advice you want someone to walk away from? I mean, it sounds so cliche, so it's hard to say, but like never give up, know, like you're going to face hard things in life. And the minute you decide to quit, thankfully, I feel like there's second chances. So you can come back from a quit, a quit if you have to quit, like, hopefully you pick yourself back up again and get back on the horse and like, but. Even if it's that, hope that's only momentary. If you really feel like you need to quit, like I hope it's just momentary. And I hope that you reach to the peers around you, your colleagues, your fellow students, your, hopefully your coworkers and support each other because you're gonna face a lot of hard days as a nurse. There are patient care days that wipe you on your butt and you, and you, and it rocks your world. And those days, nursing school made me full of anxiety, but becoming a nurse made me want to drink. So I would highly recommend finding better productive ways of dealing with those hard days as a nurse. And just like, don't quit because there's a new better day, like right around the corner, there's a new patient you're going to take care of. There's a new family whose lives you're going to impact. And that feels so good that you can do that hundreds and thousands of times over in your life. Like it is such a gift. Just don't stop. Keep going. Don't give up. Hmm. I love it. In fact, you know, here's an unofficial theme song. So I'm listening to you and the weirdest things pop into the brain sometimes. And I'm going to, you know, I ask everybody what's your favorite songs. I don't, the reason why I ask it is because I don't want to have to answer it myself. But one of my unofficial theme songs in life, if it hasn't been proven already, comes from a master lyricist named Weird Al Yankovic. YES! it came from his initial album and he had a song called I'll Be Mellow When I'm Dead. I cannot beseech everyone to listen to that song. Just go to YouTube right now, hang up, we're done. Go listen to that song because it's and it's an earworm, I'm gonna warn you, it's gonna burrow its way right into your skull. But that's what we're talking about. Don't give up and if you have to quit, it's funny that you bring that up because the episode that's on before you. She discusses how she's physically forced to quit her pursuit of nursing because of certain things. You can go back and listen to the episode, everyone. But the point is she has to quit what she thought was going to be what her career was visualized as. But instead, she's not quitting overall. She's like, no, I'm to go do this now. This is what I'm gonna do, because this I think I can physically do. I may not be able to do physically this. And that's what we're talking about. We're not talking about giving up to just the final, like, I'm giving up everything, I don't care. Don't give up. Don't be mellow. You got lots of life to live and you've got lots of learn from the failures, right? Like this, man, Hallie, your episode just circles in on itself time and time again, and I love it. So, Hallie, I'll stop flapping my gums. Thank you so much for giving your time this afternoon to enrich me. and I'm Richie, everyone who's listening. It is my pleasure. Thank you so much for the opportunity.