103 - Katie Barbera Pt 1: Pick Your Role Models Carefully

Join nurse educator, nurse, and Colorado, Arizona, and North Idaho native Honored Guest Katie Barbera as she talks about wanting to be an instructor since graduating from nursing school, facing tragedy and challenges in life, surrogacy, a time she experienced the “eating our young” phenomenon, her future career goals, and more!

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Transcript

0:01

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Feeding Our Young podcast. Today I have with me someone who has no problem talking, like myself. And I've been warned about this. And maybe she's in the education field as well. So ergo, all that evidence points to let's not deal with a bunch of filler, let's jump right in. So I'd like to welcome Katie to the studio. Katie, how the heck are ya? I'm doing great. How are you? I am doing wonderful. Thank you for taking your time this, let's see, yes, it is afternoon officially. Thanks for taking time. I don't know where I am at any given day. I'm like, the sun's out, so I know it's daytime. That's what I know. dear. So Katie, let's not mess around. Where are you from? Where's home for you? So I grew up in Colorado. I have lived a few different areas all over the country at different points in my life. I lived in Florida for a brief period of time, just over a year. And then I lived in Arizona for about a decade before I moved up here in 2015. So this year marks 10 years being in North Idaho. What do you do? A, what do you like about North Idaho? And B, how do you compare North Idaho to those previous homes? Well, so the thing that I love about North Idaho is the terrain, the change of seasons, the just, it's a beautiful space to live in. It's a beautiful, beautiful area of the country to live in. Colorado, I think is probably where I would always consider home. The Rocky Mountains being there and all the change of seasons that we had to grow up around snow. love the snow. Fall is my favorite season. so, You know, seeing the color change and being in a place where there are four seasons is very comforting for me. And I love being able to see them still be around the Northern Rockies. I'm not a fan of the heat. I'm not a fan of the sun. I'm nearly allergic to it. So I got my lifetime supply of sun when I lived in Arizona. Arizona for me gave me a lot in my life, but it And that's what I'm thankful for my time in Arizona, but it wasn't the place that I felt like was home. So I got through nursing school there, met some amazing people, had some incredible experiences that really added to my life. Um, and then was able to have what I needed to be able to move to a place that was better suited for me. So now that I had my lifetime supply of sun there, I love cloudy days. I love the rain that we get up here. I love the snow and the seasons. and it's just a. a beautiful comforting space for me to be in. enjoy the natural beauty of the area. Awesome. Well then I'm just gonna say we're kindred spirits right off the bat because yeah, no. If my wife had her way she could drag me, she would drag me down to Arizona in a heartbeat and I told her, well, when I die, have a great time down there. Keep it optimistic of course, you know. Right? All right. So you for sharing where home is for you. I love that. Now let's talk about, I kind of let the cat out of the bag. Being an instructor yourself, you must carry at least a degree or two. Tell us about your academic journey if you don't mind. Absolutely. So I, let's see here. I mean, I guess I'll start with what led me to academia. I started as a housekeeper in a nursing home in 2007. And it was that role that they paid for me to go to the CNA class at the local college. And so I went to the CNA course at Yavapai Community College in Arizona, Northern Arizona, and then started my prereqs, the nursing program. And then I graduated from nursing school with my associate degree in 2011, May of 2011. So this year will mark 14 years of being a nurse for me. And then I knew that I was very aware that most hospitals really wanted a bachelor's prepared nurses. And so I knew that I wanted that, but critical care was my passion and my focus and where I wanted to spend my profession. so knowing that in my lifetime, There were diploma programs for nursing all the way up to now them wanting bachelor's degrees. It made sense to me that at some point in my career, there could possibly be a desire for master's prepared nurses for critical care. And so I knew that if I was going to be going back to school to get my bachelor's, I should go ahead and just bite the bullet and get my master's as well. so... I've wanted to be an instructor since I graduated nursing school myself. So the reason, like my passion for what I wanted to get my master's in was originally education. And it was through talking with advisors at different universities and colleges to figure out what path I was going to take. Their suggestion was, well, if that's your goal, you can still teach with a master's of leadership and management. So was either a master's in education or a master's in leadership and management. Those are kind of the two tracks that I was considering. And I was leaning towards education because I knew that teaching is a big passion of mine. But in those communications with all of those different advisors, they said, well, you'll be able to have, you'll be able to teach with a master's in education, but you'll also be able to teach with a master's in leadership and management. But leadership and management will open more doors for you. And so I was like, well, okay, I may as well get the biggest thing for my buck. And so I did a bridge program, Associates to Masters. I started that in 2015, graduated with my Masters of Science in Nursing and Leadership and Management in January of 2019. So I did that. And then I actually, had had a, some hospitals call it a assistant nurse manager, some hospitals call it a clinical coordinator. There's variety of different roles. the kind of a middle leadership, more than a charge nurse, but less than the manager position in many hospitals. I was having that, I had that position while I was in school and I actually took a step back at that point and went back to the bedside to really focus on taking care of myself and my own life with my family and focus a little bit more there, collect myself, figure out what I was going to do next. And strangely enough, though I never saw it coming, What ended up happening next was taking an official position as manager of critical care on February 3rd of 2020. So having no idea that five weeks later, the world was going to turn upside down and talking about COVID is something that will be for a different podcast, I'm sure. There's not enough time in the world right now and I haven't been in enough therapy yet. yeah. So, but you know, there's big career goals there too. So we'll talk through some of that. But anyway, so I took that position as manager of the unit, which I never expected to be something that I would jump into, but I found that I really enjoyed the leadership piece of that. And it taught me a lot about myself. It taught me a lot about how to have crucial conversations with people in a way that was true to what felt right to me. And so I really value. the time that I had and the experience that I had there. And then I was ready through that chaos to step back a little bit and find something that was a little less intense, call it self-preservation. So I went back to Bedside Critical Care for a couple of years, two and a half years at Sacred Heart on Two South, which is their neuro trauma critical care, which is very similar to where I started in critical care in 2013. Did that for a couple of years. And then I was ready to step away from that. We can certainly talk more about that at different points in this podcast as it comes up. But I was ready to take care of myself and step away. And I knew that the thing that I was most excited about doing was teaching. And so then the first application I put in was for the position that I currently hold with Gonzaga. And that's to be a clinical instructor for Gonzaga. And so I started in August of last year here. and it's been, it's my favorite part of the week. It's the thing that fills my cup the most and I'm so happy to be here and be a part of it, so. Well, we're glad to have you. know that. it's weird for me to say it that way. It's not like I've been here that much longer. But I know the Gonzaga is glad to have you 100%. And it's just been an honor. in the, don't get it. So for those that are listening, like it's not like when you're an adjunct clinical instructor, it's adjunct. Like the emphasis is on adjunct. You're living your life. You've got usually other jobs. You've got family, you've got all the things. And then you have this little thing on the side. where you teach a clinical group or more, whatever the case may be. And so you're not full time, you're not anything near that. But it's just like you said, Katie, like, I'm like, so the only time we ever get to cross paths is when we have like our BSN orientation meetings, which are amazing. We get prepared for that next semester. And I love that Gansai does that. But it's just like you said, like kindred spirit all the way, like it's the time you spend with your students in adjunct clinical instruction is super small. compared to say full-time instructors, to what we do on our regular jobs or whatever the case may be. And so it's a highlight. I look forward to it every week. And so summer for me, like you said, I prefer the colder weather. I grew up in Seattle, so I'm not a sun guy and I've slowly been working on that with my family and blah, blah, blah. But the point is, historically, I've never looked forward to summer. Like that's just not been my thing. And which is, I'm so sorry for those of you whose butts just clenched by hearing that. It's true, people. There are some of us out there that don't look forward to summer and laying out in the sun, which my wife is wonderful at doing. So that being said, it's the same thing now. Even now in my professional career, I'm like, man, I got nobody to teach in the summer. Like, all right, fine, whatever. You know what mean? So it's just interesting. But that being said, thank you for taking us through. kind of your career path, your degree path, and what's landed you where you are now. Before I stray too far from the beaten path, even though we kind of already have, I'll ask you very briefly, what are the three words, like everyone else before you, that you have chosen to describe nursing school? It took me a little bit, I had to think about this for a day or two, unique, hard and inspiring. Awesome, we're gonna circle back around to those near the end. But the other question that I would do myself a disservice because I already saw what her answer was, what are the three songs, three of your favorite songs in life right now? So it's kind of an eclectic mix here. So the version, so the Sound of Silence by Disturbed. I really enjoy that. Metal, I have a special place in my heart for metal. This is me from The Greatest Showman, which is a fabulous movie for any of you that haven't seen it. It's totally worth seeing. The music is phenomenal. It is, absolutely. And then I can't. Help but Love, Can't Stop This Feeling by Justin Timberlake. It always makes me wanna dance, so it's fun, playful. love it. I love it. All right. Well, let's kind of before we dive into more of the nursing talk, I'd like to know more about, you know, you, your family. What do you want to share about your family? So let's see here, I, and some of this ties into nursing, but, so I'm an only child. I don't have any siblings. And I learned early on in life about challenge. So my parents, my mom and dad, my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's when I was seven. And so I was told when I was seven that my dad was dying of an incurable brain disease. And then he had already had to be relatively sick in order to get the diagnosis. And so my dad was the light of my life. He was everything for me. was early onset. He was my best friend. And I think I had, for the seven years that I had him, I had a better experience and a closer connection with my dad than I'm sure that many of the world has for decades and decades with their dads. So I'm very thankful. I'm very thankful for him in the time that I had. And so it progressed pretty rapidly. We tried home health, we tried home daycare, things like that for him. And then he went into the nursing home when I was in elementary school, before I was in fifth grade, and passed away when I was in eighth grade. So I learned early on about death. And then I actually had quite a bit of loss early on in my life. A year and a week after my dad passed away, that happened when I was 13, one of my aunts committed suicide. And a year and a week after that, I had another aunt die of colon cancer and Crohn's disease. So those tumultuous teenage years were a lot to go through and I learned a lot about loss and grieving and trauma. And then I think a lot of that led to why I wanted to become a nurse. So then now in the life that I have, lost a other family members along the way, but what I have right now, I have my mom who's close to me here. She lives up here in Idaho with me, not in the same house, but close by, her and her husband. And we get along really well. For many years, my mom has been my best friend and we're still very, very close. I just also have other really close relationships in my life. So I guess I... I'm lucky enough to say that I have multiple best friends and people that are really close to me. So I'm thankful for that. And so my mom and I are close. She was diagnosed with stage four cancer this January. So just about a month ago, almost maybe to the day, because it's January 7th. So she's actually, she was diagnosed in 2023 with endometrial cancer, but it was caught super early. So it stage 1A as early as it could be caught and had a hysterectomy. And then we did some prophylactic chemo radiation because it was a super aggressive cell type with cancer. So it's really helped me learn more about cancer because that's not much of my background. And so then she was cancer free for a great period of time. And then around the holiday season, things really started to change. And then we found out January 7th that she has, it came back and it came back in full force with metastasis on her lung, liver and in her abdominal cavity. Now we're facing, she's starting immunotherapy and has been in and out the hospital a couple times this last month. I've been pretty open with that with my students that I currently have in the clinical group and my employer. I'm an open book. So that's kind of what we're currently facing and going through. so it's very much helped me focus on one day at a time. And so right now, today is a good day. Yeah. Yeah. we'll just see how things go. We've been told that we're not gonna beat the cancer. She's not gonna beat it this time. So it's just a matter of treatment that will hopefully slow the roll from the cancer a little bit so that it can buy her some time and quality of life. She's a very happy person right now. She has a great quality of life. She loves the space that she lives in and she loves her husband very much. She loves her friends and her family that are all close by. so that's, you we're trying to preserve that as long as we can. So she's... Yeah. other than the cancer in a very good place in her life. So that's the closest family member I have. I have cousins that I'm close with, but nobody else is here in state and of course no siblings. So that's the family that I have going on right now. I have a very interesting story with children. I've had three babies and I have only raised one of them. I've made three families between all of them. I had my first one at 16 and placed her for adoption and it was an open adoption. So I've been a part of her life for most of her life, well for all of her life since she was born. I've been a part of her life. She's known that she was adopted. It was actually so normalized in her family that when they had their own biological child, their daughter said that she wanted to have a birth mom too. So... It was really kind of an amazing situation and she's 21 now and will be 22 this year and we're the best of friends. And so that's a beautiful situation and story that has happened. I mean lots of ups and downs and things but we're the best of friends now and I've learned a lot from that. And then she has a full-blooded sister that is the daughter that I raised. She will turn 20 here in about a month. And then I was a surrogate almost six and a half years ago. My surrogate baby will be seven this come May. And that was something that I just really had on my heart. I am one of those very odd unicorns in the world that enjoys being pregnant. And I'm a very happy, healthy pregnant person. And so while I certainly didn't want to raise any more babies of my own, I wasn't looking to expand my family. I really wanted to have a very positive uplifting pregnancy that I would have the opportunity to share because I had my biological daughters when I was 16 and 18. And at those ages, it's not really an opportunity to share and celebrate with the world. There's not many people that you can share and celebrate when you're 16 and 18 and pregnant. And that's okay. All the things that I've been through have made me the person I am today. So I don't have regrets. I don't believe in regret. And so I'm thankful for the situations that I've had an opportunity to be a part of. And part of that led me to really wanting to be able to be a surrogate and celebrate that. And it was incredibly healing. I'm not genetically related to that baby. It was an embryo that was 12 days old when I interacted with that embryo is one shot and she took and she was a happy, healthy baby and husband. And she's out there living life, doing her best right now. And she's, it's been really exciting to be able to see that and be a part of that story as well. So of my three babies, I'm only related to two of them and only raised one. So it's, it makes for an interesting story, that's for sure. But it's really fun having daughters that are the same age or a similar age range as the students I'm seeing. So it's kind of cool. Yeah, I mean, very briefly, that last thing you said, like I'm like, it is weird and fun to do that as well. And I tell my students, like, I'm not your dad. I'm not your, you know, that's not my role. My role is your instructor. I'm not your best friend. I'm not your dad. I'm your instructor. And I'm gonna bring the best out of you. And I will also encourage the crap out of you. But it is fascinating when you have students that are near your children's age and you're just like, It's fun to see the parallels and the differences and all that. But that was just a random thought there at the very end. In the meantime, I don't want to take away from, holy crap, Katie. Wow. Like, we have it. No, it's okay. We have a guest. Who is this? Who are we hearing? And maybe this is, again, sometimes the background noise gets out when we edit. And so some people are gonna be like, what the heck is he talking about? Who is that in the background? Well, there's three of them. Luna! They're very excited right now. We'll see. Yeah. that's fantastic. So before we talk about them, because you do have that as part of your family that we'll chat about there, but I just, legitimately, Katie, like, wow. don't, it was like one thing after another. Now, to be fair, I did know about Katie's mom because we were talking about that prior to, you know, she was like, well, this is what's going on in my life right now. And I'm like, we can do this another time. This is not anything that needs to happen this week. And she's like, no, I'll let you know when we get closer and. I hate to do a last minute whatever, but we'll see what that day brings. And I'm like, 100%. And so we definitely had that conversation prior to. Sometimes it's helpful to talk about those things we're passionate about, and other times we need to focus on the other things going on in our lives. But no, my heart just goes out to you in so many different ways. And what I want to ask you before we go talking about your furry babies is if you don't mind opening up that door. Because I know that, especially being a postpartum nurse and all those sort of things, we see surrogacy often and there's all sorts of conversations about morality, there's conversations about foreign surrogacy and all that. I don't wanna unpack all that per se. But from your perspective, having been a surrogate, now it sounds like you had a positive experience. Obviously, any pregnancy can go wrong at any time, so there's always that risk. But just... Share a little bit more with us if you don't mind. Like your impressions going into surrogacy and then coming out of surrogacy. Obviously it sounds like you're very pro, but, and this is my design is not to, you know what I mean, foster debate amongst anyone listening about like, well, my gosh, know, the Catholic church says and da da da da, none of that. That's not what we're after. The question is how do you personally, how did you feel about it going into it? And then how do you feel about it now being on the other side of it by a few years? Yeah, good, great question. So I think that I have a slightly different perspective than a lot of other people do because I had the experience of placing my first baby for adoption. So I had gone through the experience of having a pregnancy. We even had a baby shower when I was pregnant with my baby when I was 16. The plan was originally to parent her. And so having that and then trying to make the best of the situation and then deciding that the most important thing was not how I felt, the most important thing was what would give her the best possible life. And that meant not me raising her at that point in time. And so having it be trying to make the best out of a situation and then knowing that I was you know, it was kind of a, I wouldn't say last minute, but you know, it wasn't the plan from the beginning of the pregnancy to place her for adoption. So having that transition and then it being of course my full-blooded child and then placing her in somebody else's car and going home from the hospital by myself, processing through that in order to do what I could to give her the best life possible, having that experience and then like that really helped me. to be able to have a good firm grounding with surrogacy. So because of surrogacy, know a lot of the questions a lot of times that people will bring up, because I've been very vocal. I've loved sharing my surrogacy story. So I love talking about it. So, because part of it that was so healing for me was being able to share the positive journey that I was on. I wasn't worried or afraid of placing this baby that I carried in somebody else's arms. the plan from the very beginning. Nobody asked me to do it. Nobody pushed me into it. It was because it was on my heart to be able to provide this. And what I can tell you is that there are so many people in the world that have a heart for wanting to be parents and wanting to raise children. One of the things that I loved while I was going through that experience was it created a safe space where people that I had had as coworkers or that I had known came out of the woodwork to share their infertility journeys with me. And so it created this very different safe space that we could connect on things that I was learning about because I got a chance to learn a little bit about some of the infertility journeys that people went on. so, you know, being able to hear, you know, from the different, the surrogate family about their passion and their, their joy and wanting to have a baby, being able to connect with other people and create a safe space to understand their infertility journey and being able to get my own healing from the situation. and through being able to provide this pregnancy and raise this baby. I've talked to the baby while I was pregnant with the baby about their family and all that kind of thing. So that bonding, wasn't about me being excited about this baby being mine. It never felt like that. From the very beginning, it was, get this opportunity to take part in this, help grow this beautiful life so that somebody else can, you know. have a life fulfilled by being a parent and this other person can then grow and become a whole human being in the world. And so it's a really amazing thing to be able to be a part of. And it was very positive, beautiful journey to go on with that family. And so, you know, after postpartum, there was a level of, there was a kind of loneliness because I'd had a person with me. I'd had this little human being that I was growing. the whole time for the last nine months. And so there was a period of loneliness that I went through with that, with not having this person with me all the time anymore. And from being kind of the center of attention to some extent, because I had the baby and I was carrying the baby, to then transitioning to not having that same level of focus and all that kind of thing that took some processing to get through. But overall, it was a very healthy. happy experience and I love being able to see that little baby grow. I just... Because I'm hearing you talk about it that way. Like I'm just like, because taking care of moms who have... Taking care of moms... Taking care of moms who have done that, know, I personally have seen the wide, you know, reaction to that. There are some carriers who come out of the experience and just like, you know, my gosh, all this is worth it. And I'm so excited and they're happy. It's just pure happiness. And then there are other, and you know, who knows what that looks like a week later or two weeks later or whatever the case may be, you know, this postpartum blues and things of that nature. and then there are others, I mean, I will never forget the one mom who I'm the one helping to discharge her and she's just like still thinking about it to this day, just tears down her face. Like, you know what I mean? Like just, and again, she's like, I'm happy about it all. Like I don't regret it, but I just, oh, cause yeah, how do you carry that human being inside of you and then go, okay. So just to hear that story, Katie, thank you. Thank you, thank you for sharing and being vulnerable with that. For those that are out there, I mean, nursing students, we have nursing students of all ages, all the things, right? So who knows, maybe there's some are out there that are like, you know, I've kind of thought about that and whatever the case may be. And I just, man, incredible. And I feel like I'm going to do us all a disservice by then jumping into the vastly less emotionally impacting question of circling back around and talking about your fur babies. So. So now that they've quieted, of course, who do you got? Who else is in your family? So I have a couple of them. have... Real time, this is gonna make the episode, but real time, those that if you follow the social media channels, when I sit in studio with somebody, I always, there we go. Oh, so cute. I always post a little post like, here's who's in studio today. And so I just took a picture. I'm like, we gotta get her in. Anyway, so go ahead. Here, you're saying. I just took a picture of us three, really. Yes, absolutely. So I have, there's technically four fur babies in my home. I have the one that you'll see the photo of for those that are listening is Luna. She's my heart. She's the little baby of the group. She is just over, well, she'll be, she'll be three this February here in just a little while, February 17th. She will turn three years old. She's 21. She's fine. We're fine. Yeah, so she's my heart. is a little, she's a Yorkie-Pomeranian mix and named after Luna Lovegood, my favorite character from Harry Potter, for those of you that are Harry Potter fans. Yep, yep. And so she's my heart. She's my best little buddy. And then we have Dobby, also named after Harry Potter, of course. And he is a Yorkie-Poodle mix and he is about three times her size. So Luna... For those of you that are listening and can't see pictures, Luna is about seven pounds. She's just a little thing. And then Dobby is in the neighborhood of like 15 to, I guess he's just over twice her size, 15 to 18 pounds, depending on how well he's been eating and how well he's been packing on the pounds for the winter. And then we have a 70 pound American Staffordshire Terrier, which a lot of people consider looks like what people refer to as a pit bull sometimes. And he is a gentle giant. He's so sweet. He and Luna are the best of friends and he likes to play tug of war with her by rolling over onto his back so that she can play tug with him. Because he's very, gentle. And every time they have a meal, she takes it upon herself to clean up his face afterwards. So they're the best of friends. It's super cute. They keep us busy. So those are our three dogs. And then we have a... Yes, absolutely. And then we have a very large orange cat named Max. And he is an indoor outdoor kitty. He's a pretty unique little guy, or big guy. He's bigger than both of the small dogs. yeah, and he's full of attitude and character as many cats are. Well gonna say, does he kinda rule the roost? Does he like, make sure he knows where he's at in the pecking order? Or does he kinda steer clear of all the dogs? You know, he has a unique relationship with all of them. He and Luna play quite a bit. They'll kind of do this like chase game with each other, which is kind of cute. He and Oliver are the best of friends. Oliver and he go back since Max was born. Max is just about six months younger than Oliver. Max lived his whole life with Oliver and so he has a very close relationship with Oliver and then he and Dobby are figuring each other out. They're kind of nose to nose and will sniff each other out sometimes and every once in while they're learning to play together. Max has his own relationships with everybody, does his own thing. It is absolutely as cats are. Well, I'm looking at the timer as I often do and man, there's still so much to unpack here. So can you describe a time maybe where you have experienced that eating our young phenomenon? Yeah, absolutely, Eric. So I will tell you, so when I started in hospital healthcare, so this is all the way back at this point about 17 years ago, I believe, 17, well, 18 years ago this year, I guess. And when I first started in hospital, I'd been a CNA for about six months. And at this point in time of my life, I had just turned 21. So, I was in the age similar to a lot of the students are today that we have. And I was so excited to be at work and learning and growing. And there was a code situation in the hospital. Where I was working at the time was the ICU. So, and I was working as a CNA in the ICU and I was fascinated by everything that was going on, super engaged in what was going on at school too. So there's a code and all I wanted to do was help. But I wasn't sure what to do to help because I'd never had an experience like that. I wasn't in the room where the code was. I was at the nurse's station, but I still wanted to figure out what I could do to help. so, yeah, certainly didn't know what I could do to be able to be helping the situation outside the room, obviously. And so my charge nurse at the time looked me dead in the eye and told me, you are absolutely worthless. quote exactly what she said to me. And at that point in time where I was in my life, I immediately broke down crying because no one had said exactly those words to my face ever before. then she proceeded to make fun of me for crying for the next four years. So, and that, that charge nurse was a very well-respected nurse in that hospital, this little community hospital. And at first, of course, we weren't We weren't close at that point in time. weren't friends at that point in time. We... Yeah, and so it wasn't like a ingest or pulling my, you know, like it wasn't something that where someone was just being a little over the top, not taking a joke too far. It was just very literally being very mean. And so... you know, of course I cried, I had to figure out how to collect myself, I had to figure out how to keep going. And that was probably about three weeks after I'd started that position there at the hospital, three weeks into working in the ICU. So I knew that that's where I wanted to be, I knew that that's what I wanted to do. So it was a matter of figuring out, I've always been one of those kind of people that just because something's hard doesn't ever dissuade me from doing it. In fact, That's kind of when my stubborn really kicks in and I decide that I'm really gonna work harder at it. So because things worth having, usually hard things are worth doing because what it's worth having on the other side of it is valuable. And usually hard work does pay off. I kind of dug in and tried to do my best to be able to learn how to anticipate needs, how to... really be excellent at my job. And that nurse, she ended up having some personal crisis going on in her existence. A family member that was dying of cancer that she ended up taking some time off work to help with over an extended period of time. And when she came back, from the leave that she had, there was an ad-mit that she was taking care of and I jumped in and anytime she asked me if I'd done something, I'd already done it. Anytime she asked me, Any question, I already had the answer for her. She didn't have to give me any direction at that point in time. And from that admission on, it's like I had earned her trust at that point. And she did continue to make fun of me for the next few years that I cried. But at that point, she had made me cry at the beginning. But at that point, it was more from a friendly, giving you a hard time about something than it was from a mean standpoint. And so... who I was at that point in time in my career, I had developed a way to really look up to her skill set and her knowledge base because the care that she provided for her patients and that kind of thing. So then fast forward, I graduated from nursing school and I really wanted to get started working super passionate, super excited about things. And I had applied for a job in new grad position in that unit in the ICU where I was working as a CNA. And It was, I had applied for that job while I was in my practicum. And in my practicum that I did at the surgical ICU at St. Joe's hospital in downtown Phoenix, I got some hard feedback from my preceptor. She basically told me that I was mean. And then the next day I got the phone call that I did not get the job in the ICU where I had been working for the last few years. And that was devastating. And I cried and I... I called my boss at the time because my boss had been this outstanding supportive person for me throughout nursing school. He had pretty much said that she was going to almost do internal hire only, that I was going be one of the best nurses that she ever hired. He given me all this really positive feedback, so I had no reason to think that there was any issues going on. And so when I asked her, she made the decision to tell me that multiple people on the team had come to her and told her not to hire me. And I never found out who those people were. At that point in time in my life and in my career, I was still learning about how professional interaction and how to problem solve some of those things. And so I did my best to try and confront and ask people to try and understand what feedback I needed to learn. The sad part in that situation was that nobody actually gave me the feedback on what it was, what the... things were that people saw that they didn't want to hire me for. Um, so there's no tangible anything for me to actively work on. There was just now feeling like the people that worked with me didn't like me and I didn't understand why, and I didn't understand what was going on. And so I didn't have tools to build on to grow. I did have a lot of uncertainty and feeling really uncomfortable in the work environment that I had. So, um, The job that I ended up getting was at a nursing home, which is right across the street from the hospital at the time. And I started over there as a nurse because nobody in hospital would give me a chance when I started. so I went over there and I worked there for nine months. And then there was a, I kept my foot in the door at the hospital. So I continued to work as a CNA on some days of the week in the hospital. And then on other days of the week, I worked as an RN over in the nursing home. And so doing quite a combination thereof. And as I kind of transitioned my role away from the ICU and into just kind of a PRN float pool position as a CNA to give me as much flexibility and hours and pick up was what I was needing at that point in time in my career. I was working for the leadership for the float pool is one person that really had seen some potential in me and a appreciated that I was still putting forth effort at work. Because, you know, in all of that feeling so uncertain, feeling so uncomfortable, I had two choices. I could, at least as I saw it, I had two choices. I could get really bitter and resentful and really uncomfortable and spend my work days at the hospital miserable. Or I could choose to take the nervous and uncomfortable energy that I had and drive it towards spending more time with my patients and just upping the level of care I was giving my patients. And so I decided to do the second option there and to really, I can spend a little bit more time giving a little bit more time and energy to each of my patients throughout the shift. And that gave me the sense that at least I was doing something positive that was worthwhile with the energy that I was having. And then I wasn't sitting around feeling awkward sitting at the nurse's station around people that I wasn't sure how I could trust. So, So those are some choices that I made. And then as that leadership team from the float pool saw my continued effort, they opened up a position and they started working. also were leadership over the adult inpatient psych area. And so I started in there as a nurse and was able to transition back over to hospital full time away and stop working as a CNA and just work as a nurse in hospital, even though was adult inpatient psych. which not to speak poorly of that is just not that that wasn't where I thought I was going to be. That's not where I saw my career goal, where I was going to start. It was just a leg in and it was worthwhile to do. And so I started there and I remember while I was training there, I was having a conversation with the leadership team that I was working with and there are a lot of tears. There are a lot of tears in the beginning of nursing. There just are. fact, I think there's probably a lot of tears all throughout nursing, but there's especially a lot in those first couple years that you're learning and you're growing and you're choosing, you're learning at a rate that is even more accelerated than what you're doing in nursing school. And some of the lessons that you're learning are heavier than the ones that you were learning in nursing school. And the pressure is a little bit greater because You're no longer a student. You now have your own license that you're standing on. So there's a lot of tears. And I think it's important to speak to that that's okay. And it's totally normal to have those emotions and all of those things, beginning of nursing school and the beginning of nursing when you step out and have your own career. And then one of those cheerful conversations is having with that leadership team. You know, I was talking about the kind of nurse that I wanted to be. And I was talking about, um, is one of the people that I'd looked up to had been this charge nurse that had said those very mean words to me years ago and proceeded to make fun of me for it because of the level of care that she gave to her patients. And it was that nurse, that leadership team, that those nurses that I was talking to, um, when I was working in adult inpatient psych that brought to my attention, they said, okay, but so what makes a good nurse? And like, so they asked me that and then they were asking me if it like what the impact is, is it okay to be able to treat people so negatively? How does that impact that environment? And recognizing it, it walked me through their questions, led my thought process through and walked my thought process through my own realization that maybe I didn't need to hold this nurse in such high regard, that it's not okay. for nurses to eat their young. Even if you're an excellent, excellent nurse and you provide amazing care to your patients, if you are mean to new nurses, you're creating an environment where it's not okay to learn. It's not safe to learn. It's not safe to ask questions. It's not safe to figure things out. And I had mistakenly put so much... I had really looked up to her because of the skill that she had with her, her, her patients and what she did there that I had completely looked over and accepted that it was just okay to treat people like that. and so I really learned in that moment that it's okay to say that that was not okay to be treated that way. And I knew that it wasn't okay to be treated that way, but I had still held that nurse in this special regard in my mind. And so it gave me permission to be able to say, no, that's just, it doesn't matter how great a nurse you are. It's not ever okay to be like that. It's not ever okay. doesn't help anything to be like that. And so recognizing that it wasn't just the occasional preceptor that I had was in nursing school or anything like that. Cause we all run into different times where somebody is, okay, then the lesson I'm getting from that nurse is that's how I'm not going to be. I promise I won't be like that when I graduate. that, you know, there's some of those interactions that we all have in nursing school, but this was a little bit bigger because this was someone that I interacted with regularly in a professional environment where I was working full time. And so seeing that and recognizing that, and then being guided through kind of that recognition and awareness of it, it helped me better understand what a role model should be, what someone to look up to really should be. And I really do have a belief that every person no matter what area you're in, what work line you're in, how skilled you are, how educated you are. think you should always have people you look up to. I think you should always have role models. But I think you should pick those role models carefully. Yeah. Yeah. and that they're they're gonna have their own set of you know You're gonna see whatever you're gonna see out of them But there's gonna be you know sets of positives and negatives as there are with all of us Yeah. And so, you know, just because someone has some really excellent skills, you can recognize those excellent skills, but it doesn't mean that everything that they do is right and that you should want to accept all of that as okay behavior. So, you know, I, I moved on past that organization and had a great opportunity and really started from that leadership team, from the float pool. seeing an opportunity in me and helping me to grow and flourish and giving me a safe space to be able to ask questions and to be able to learn and to be encouraging for me. And it was there that I really started to build my career beyond that. And I will forever be thankful for those nurses that gave me that opportunity. So. that on to your own students in that regards and those that you precept etc etc Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's one of the many reasons that education and precepting and teaching is so valuable and important to me because, um, you know, I learning anytime you start something, you're a novice, no matter how high your IQ is, no matter how brilliant you are, no matter how much knowledge base you have coming into it. Anytime you start something new, you're a novice. You can't be an expert. when you start something new. And so when you're starting something new, there's self doubt, you're not sure if you're doing it the right way. And it's hard and it's scary and it's uncomfortable. And so for someone to take that kind of environment where someone's brain is very easily moldable because they're learning and they're growing and to be a positive force in that space. to be able to help someone, give someone the tools that they need and help encourage them is so valuable in taking our career forward. And so that's always been something that's been really important to me. So as I was listening, I've listened to some of the podcasts that have been put out. Yeah, some of the other episodes and it just is on my heart to be able to share this. So I think it's really important to hear. what those stories are and how different people have had to face those things and what that can look like. And, you know, it was never an option for me to no longer be in that area, to no longer work in that area. I knew that that's where I wanted to be. And so, you know, it gave me the skills to recognize, okay, I can do hard things. I can work through difficult situations with people. And then I was able to apply that because really anywhere you work, you're not going to love everybody you work with. Any place that you work, there's gonna be people who have personality types, have interests, who have ways that they communicate that are not going to be what you would prefer. And so it's really valuable and important to be able to grow some skills to figure out how you're gonna then handle those situations. Sometimes the right choice is to move to a different area. Sometimes the right choice is to dig in and put your energy into... you know, patient care, sometimes, you know, the right choice can be different things, can mean different, different things, but it's valuable to understand just that you do have a choice. You do have an option to be able to work through that and to figure out how to trust your own intentions, trust your own, your own guiding principles, why you want to be where you are. And you can, you can go back to those things in the face of some of that doubt and some of that insecurity that you feel because nursing is an incredible profession. We have this amazing opportunity to be able to help change lives every single day. And it makes you all the stronger for doing that. So yeah, no. Thank you, Katie. Thank you for being willing to kind of open up that little peek into your own personal experience. I'm sorry you had to experience it. That's, you know what mean? Like I know I had nothing to do with it, but yet I'm like, ugh, it's that heart, right? That like, we don't want to see our students go through it. We don't want to see our peers go through it. So that's why we're here. That's why we're here. That's why we're not just... shouting into the wind. feel like we're, you know what I mean? If we can make change and if it's change for one person, then that's one less person who's going to treat people like you were treated. So I'm gonna ask you I think one more question to round out this first episode and then we'll jump into a second and who knows, maybe a third. Because Katie's got a lot to say, we already covered that fact to start with. with that, the last question I'll ask you for this first episode. is you put on your nice little form you want to talk about your next career goals. What does the future hold professionally for Katie? Well, good question. So yes, next career goals. So I really love the time and energy I get to put into Gonzaga and I look forward to opportunities to get more involved there. So you might see me, if you're a student at Gonzaga in the nursing program, you might see me helping out in the RSC every once in a while, bootcamp skills lab things, and hopefully we'll get more involved there. And then as different opportunities make themselves available, I certainly look forward to. how those may be a good fit for me because what I'd really like to do at some point, and it's kind of in the like five to 10 year goal for me right now, is I really want to go and get my DNP as a psych nurse practitioner. So Gonzaga has a program where I can get my psych DNP and I can take an extra semester and also get my family nurse practitioner. And I would really love the opportunity to have that because I feel like having both of those, the passion project is to get my psych DNP and with one more semester getting my FNP would give me kind of similar to the perspective of my masters in leadership and management opening all the doors. It's the same kind of concept where it would open up a lot of doors and I would love to be able to help vets with PTSD at some point in my career and then I would love something I've wanted to do since 2015 since I learned about it at a Johns Hopkins critical care rehab conference. I would love to create a ICU survivorship program for the Inland Northwest. So as my, with a psych DNP, I would be able to run that and get that program up and running, not specific to a hospital, but specific to a critical care patient population, their loved ones and the healthcare providers in that, because I think it would be a great place to be able to help people heal from the trauma of going through critical care. So. It being a five to 10 year goal to get my psych NP at some point, I'd really love it if I could work well enough with Gonzaga that they would pay for it, which is sometimes one of the perks of working at university. So we'll see what the future brings there. And then once I get that under my feet, get some time working with vets, because that's just something that is on my heart, then be able to launch into creating that survivorship program. And then we'll see where things take me. I'd also love to write a couple of books along the way. I want to write a book about being a critical care nurse through COVID. So as I heal from that, which like I mentioned, will be helpful to go through a little bit more therapy, or maybe a lot of it more therapy, we'll see, things got pretty dark in there. I would love to share, I think that story needs to be told. I think people need to hear it. So I wanna write a book about that at minimum. And there are a couple other books that I have in my heart to be able to put out there too. Like I said, words. I'm wordy, I enjoy being able to share, talking comes easy to me, and I think that it'd be really neat to be able to share some of the thoughts that I have and help people in that way in the future. So that's kind of gonna go hand in hand with some of that work along the way. I think that that pretty much covers the main career goals that I have. We'll see what else happens. Yeah, that's all. No big deal everybody. No big deal. I think that covers everything she says. If you don't mind my asking, where does the veteran PTSD bit come from? Why that specific patient population? Yeah, very good question. So my very favorite patients are grumpy old men. And I know that's silly, but the patients that I get report on and the nurse says they're non-compliant, they won't listen, they keep getting out of bed or whatever the case is, or they just are grumpy, they have an attitude problem. For some reason, those are patients that through honoring who they are, the service that oftentimes their vets. the ones that are the grumpiest, honoring their service, honoring what they've given to help me be a free person living in the United States and what they've seen and done. I was able to find a pathway to connect with them, to help them be a part of their healing journey so that they were no longer refusing cares and things like that. And that has been consistent throughout my entire career, something that I got a lot out of. And so then, As I went through COVID, I kind of was thinking about it. And the only thing that felt like it could even come close to explaining what, how hard it was and what it went, what we went through was war. Because for example, Vietnam vets, they went over, they signed up for a career where they didn't choose what they did. They followed orders and they didn't choose Vietnam. they chose to serve their country and protect our freedom. And as a nurse, you don't choose the orders. You choose to go to work to help people and follow physician orders. And sometimes you're in the line of fire and not to belittle anything that any of those vets went through because they saw and had to do things and experience things that were horrific and traumatic in their own way. But there was... It was life threatening for us. There were healthcare workers. There is a mortality rate for ICU nurse managers through COVID. Not all of them survived. Not all the nurses survived that went through and took care of COVID patients. So there was a mortality rate to it. And not only that, but we went, especially in North Idaho, we went through a situation where we were trying to help and the world didn't see, they lost trust in us and they no longer saw what we were doing in many ways as being helpful. And there was a lot of conflict there and Vietnam War vets came back and were not welcomed with open arms. And it wasn't their fault. And so when I made that connection and then I had this privilege of taking care of a few veteran patients since then, and I connected with them in that way. And I got feedback from them that they said, it would be great if you could come and talk to our vets, talk to our group. And that was so... meaningful to me that that that I was seen in that way and that they were able to connect with that that I felt like there's a way that we can help vets deal with the trauma that they've been through and we can heal some of the relationship with war veterans and the medical field not that it necessarily is broken but that there's a great deal of um sometimes there's grumpy old patients grumpy old men patients they're having a hard time processing through things and so maybe there's some healing that could go on and we could understand each other a little bit better and they could be more an active part of their healing journey. And I could also feel seen and nursing nurses could be seen by this patient population and it could help repair and heal and create greater connection and community between two groups of people that have been through like some pretty rough stuff. So I think it's through those experiences and those patients that I took care of that that mentioned that, that I was like, that'd be really cool to be able to help, to be able to help that patient population. And so the more that I've thought about it, the more right it feels for me to be able to really help in that way. So that's where that comes from. You guys, I'm like, I can't wait to get into the second episode. I know that sounds stupid because we're gonna just pick up right where we left off as soon as I stop recording. But like, I'm looking, like I look over to my right, this is where the computer exists that has the form that gets returned to me. Under, you know, the section about why nursing this set and the other, what Katie wrote was, next career goals, exclamation point. Three words that just took a passionate. 15 minutes. just love that. Katie, I love it. I absolutely love it. Okay, so enough yammering. Let's go do a second episode, maybe a third. I don't know, we'll see what happens. Nobody like, we're just winging it here everybody. We'll see if we just pack it all into the second one. Maybe there'd be a little bit more to say in a third. So Katie, let's see on the flip side then. See you then.