151 - Jae McKinney: You Have Your Own Worth

Join nurse educator, nurse practitioner, and Spokane Valley, Washington native Honored Guest Jae McKinney as she discusses how a television show helped get her into nursing, how a life event side railed her into her chosen specialty, the huge transition period she had entering nursing school, an impactful trip to Peru, why she chose to enter nursing education, having a different perspective on those “difficult” instructors in nursing school, how to survive imposter syndrome, and more!

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Transcript

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Hello and welcome to this episode of the Feeding Our Young® podcast. So, uh it's pretty rare when I get to make confessions and today is one of those confessions. I want it to be known that I am a certified gang member. Yes, uh I am a leader of a pretty rough and tough gang called the Gonzaga Bulldog Nursing OB Sacred Heart Students. Yes, that'd be it. uh And... The reason why I bring that up is because in studio today is a rival gang member. No, not because she teaches for another university, but because legitimately we both had overlapped on our last orientation day with our students. She and her students come out of a room that they were looking at and I'm in the hall with my students and we're all like, hey, hey, hey, know, she turned into this whole like a West Side story thing going on. It was kind of fun. And our greatest regret is that we didn't get a picture of the moment because that would have been awesome. A little collab between the crimson and the blue. So without further ado, enough flapping my gums, the one, the only Jae McKinney. Jae, how are you this fine afternoon? I'm doing great. And thank you for letting me share that little story because it really was fun, you guys. It was, and I'm going to say WSU is cooler, but. this is it. right. All right. Okay. Nope. Nope. Jackets coming off. That's it. I'm gonna crack my knuckles. Good thing I didn't bring any of my weapons today. Just kidding. You know, once a Coug, always a Coug. And that's why I'm sorry. I taught Peds at Coug's. I'm like, I tell my students to like, I got to teach SCC students this weekend. I was just filling in for somebody. It was fantastic. Cause then they're like, well, you do teach for Gonzaga and I'm like, hey, listen here. Everybody's different. Everybody's got their pluses. Everybody's got their minuses. But all, all, everybody should be awesome. Right? Right. And that's all that matters. I am a WSU alum, so I have to, you know, be batting for my alma mater and where I'm teaching and, you know, it's just go Cougs. And you can't see it, she strokes her almost crimson hair here, subtly adding to the discussion there. my gosh. And you definitely, I will fully admit, you bleed vastly more crimson than me, as my experience at Wazzu was very short tenured in comparison to so many others. Enough about that, let's talk about you. You've kind of already dabbled in a little bit in that. So Jae, I think we've already let the cat out of the bag, you're already a nurse. So what degrees do you hold and where did you get them? So I have, I actually have a bachelor's of arts in chemistry from Whitworth and that was my pre-nursing career. And then I have my BSN from WSU, know, way back in the day. And I also have my master's in nursing education from WGU. And then I just recently finished my post-master's certificate program as a family nurse practitioner and passed my boards back in June. So. Yay! Oh, that is so incredible, because Jae and I have known each other for a little while now, so definitely well before nurse practitioner Jae, yes? Yep, that is, you know, like I said, recent as of June, so. Yes, I'm so excited for you. That's amazing. So what's the plan? What are you going to do with that? have no idea. I'm still trying to figure out how to be a grownup with it. um I did, last April, I signed the contract to teach um two classes, which has now turned into three with WSU, and I did not feel right backing out on that contract. I know that the students are relying on instructors to being there, and the school is relying on instructors to being there, so I just did not feel right all of a sudden, just being like, oh, I can't do this. I decided, you know, let's just go ahead and do this for this year and, you know, who knows, maybe I'll just keep loving it and just going to keep doing it and then eventually something will fall in my lap that could possibly be a part-time nurse practitioner uh job or, you know, I just, I'm just taking it day by day and when it's right, it's right and I'll know and then I'll be a grownup at some point. Well now, let's not push it too far. I'm still waiting for that process to happen for me. I don't know if that's an intentional thing or if it's puberty where it just happens to you. know, okay. Someday we'll grow up, I love it. As you're drinking from your Harry Potter mug, which we'll touch on later, but uh where is home for you? Where are from? I was actually born and raised in Spokane Valley. Yes, I am a U-High Titan, class of 2004. So yeah, I was born and raised there. That's my home. after I met my husband, so when I met him, he was in the military, followed him to the East Coast, was over there for a little bit. And then when he got out, we were in Seattle for a little bit. And then eventually just came back home, so. that's so cool. So then, before we continue our fun conversation, what are the three words you used or you chose to describe nursing school? The three, well, I mean, technically it's four words because one is two words, but eye opening, rough and transitional. Incredible. And what are three of your favorite songs in life right now? Right now I have Ordinary by Alex Warren, ah Homesick by Antoine Tyler, who is uh from the Monroe-Sultan area over by Seattle, which is where my dad was born and raised. So I feel like that one's like sitting a little close to my heart. uh And then I Am Not Okay by Jelly Roll has been uh kind of like an anthem song for me for a while now. I'll tell you what, that last one in particular, I've heard come up more than once on this podcast. And so I just love that. I, again, as to quote former instructors where there's repetition, there's something that's probably worth paying attention to. So if you're not going to listen to all three of those songs, everybody listen to that last one. Cause I guarantee you, like you said, it can be an anthem for various seasons in your life. Alright my friend, so let's dive into, I kinda wanna, I wanna do this backwards. We're gonna talk nursing first and then double back to a little bit more about you, but ah I just love the fact that I get to know you and that I met you of course as a bedside RN for the most part. And now here we are, we're both teaching. So let's take it from the beginning. Why nursing? Okay. So way back in the day, back when ER was first out, and we all know how old that show is now, and I'm aging myself by saying it, I used to sit on my mom's bed, 10 p.m., 9 or 10 p.m. on a Thursday night, I believe it was, watching ER with my mom. And I fell in love with George Clooney's character because he was a pediatrician, and he advocated for those kids to no end. There was a lot of things that he did that was not okay and that's not what I'm looking up to. But um I just wanted to take care of kids and I wanted to advocate for the kids and I just wanted to make a difference. So when I first started Whitworth I was pre-med and as I was doing my volunteer hours to be able to put that on my med school application I started going, you know, the doctors are never around here. The nurses are the ones that are doing all of this work and making all of this difference. And so while I was at Whitworth, I did change into becoming a nursing major. I went down my nursing career path. So that's how I got here. And funny enough, I have never worked pediatrics because I fell in love with OB. I had my first kiddo in the middle of nursing school. And I feel like that gave me a whole different perspective of OB nursing and just being there for moms during. of the biggest transition times of their lives. I, it's so fulfilling that I just love it, so. That is awesome. And so let me, then it sounds like you went into that nursing uh program going, know where I'm going, I know where I'm headed. And then you're pregnant, you have a baby. And is it that event alone that changed that perspective or were you keeping kind of an open mind on things? How did you approach that whole, because there's a lot of students, right, that you've met even that are like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And I'm like, great, you don't have to know what you're gonna do. Well, when I started nursing school, I like, do not I don't want to take care of those hormonal women pregnant. Like I don't want to. I want to be in the ER. I want to be trauma. I want to be a flight nurse. had all of these expectations. And then, yeah, getting pregnant with my first kiddo in nursing school and then having him and taking that time off to be with him and and then going back. I went back and my second semester back was my OBP rotation. I was just like, this is amazing. Like I actually can't. myself doing anything different and just made that change and been oh my goodness almost 14 years now so yeah gosh. You're like, you're like practically an adult in nursing in that regards, right? Like, come on now. I'm gonna consider myself a teenager because I do sometimes cause a little bit of trouble. That's what I love, you know, because people are like, you've been a nurse like 18 years. I said, yeah, guess technically I'm an adult, but uh I don't know. I think socially arrested, arrested development. I don't know, something along those lines. But enough about that. So uh nursing school itself. What did you love most about nursing school when you got into it? I didn't like anything when I first got into nursing. Guys, coming from a current instructor, so this she's come a long way. I'm just telling you And I think it's because I did have a weird adjustment period. I did running start when I was in high school. So when I graduated high school, I had my associate's degree as well. And being at the community college, the instructors are very much like, you're paying for your education. You're here when you want to be here. Like you need to show up when you want to show up. Like if you don't learn, that's on you. And when I was at Whitworth is pretty similar to the same, like the teachers did seem a little bit more invested in us at Whitworth, but you know, if you don't wanna go to class, you didn't go to class. It wasn't a big deal. And so there was a huge transition period for me when I got to nursing school because it was expected that I showed up. It was expected that my bottom was in that seat. It was expected that I was there 15, 20 minutes early before clinical, before class, all of these things. And I had the hardest time. with that transition. And then, you know, I also had some other issues. was one time before clinical, I was digging the snow out from underneath my car, trying to be able to move because the plow came through to get to clinical. And I'm like, if I picked any other career, like I would not be doing this right now. So, um, yeah, I'm not going to lie. When I first started nursing school, I went, what am I doing here? I don't know. That's awesome. I... through is when it kind of clicked in. And but that's I love that you're transparent about that because I had that moment with these SCC students I was talking about from this weekend where same thing like I just told them I said straight up going back to anyone who's not listened to the first episode of the podcast go back and listen to it because in there I read a journal entry that I wrote after my first clinical experience where I was like if this is nursing I've picked the wrong field like this is stupid ah this is not what I signed up for I cannot believe we do this blah blah blah and it was very like It wasn't from a point of anger, it was from a point of like discouragement and like, I think I've made a huge mistake. And um just sharing that story briefly with them, not reading that journal entry, you know, they were like so appreciative of it because they're like, my gosh, they had just finished second quarter, you know, they're doing their OB experience, which is third quarter out of six quarters for a community college. And in that third quarter, they're like, those first two really took it out of us. And so to hear you, me, say that, and now you, Jae on the podcast say that, any nursing student who's hearing that is like, I can guarantee you right now you just made a bunch of backs, sit straight up, and they're like, okay, this is a normal feeling, let's go. So then what changed for you? Like was it just a light switch or was there a certain person or a moment or how did that flip? So about halfway through my first semester, I was going, okay, maybe I need to go try med school. Maybe I should go back. um And I somehow was able to get in at the time, you back in the day WSU had an elective class where people went to Peru and that was the elective. We went to Peru. We held clinics in these rural areas. We learned about their healthcare system. We learned about all of that. all of those kind of things and I somehow got into this class as a first semester student. So in May, uh and it's even funny story because I almost didn't get on the plane because my husband, at the time we were just boyfriend and girlfriend, he had just come home for his R &R and his R &R got delayed and so instead of me taking him to the airport to go back for his deployment, he was taking me to the airport to get on this plane to go to Peru. And I'm saying they're crying. I'm like, I'm not going. This isn't the way it's supposed to be. ah But my time in Peru really opened my eyes. And I was like, we can make a difference. We can make a difference. uh Seeing these people lining up outside of our clinic because they don't have any other option. And it was for things like parasites, because we had pharmacy students with us too. So we had our own little pharmacy. They needed. Medication for parasites. They needed medication for ear infections. They needed all of these things and like it's the accessibility that they don't have there and Making that difference to them. I was like, my goodness. I can make this difference back home Like it just was so eye-opening that yes, this this is something that I can do and want to do ah My first attempt at meds urge was a little rough though because I will admit I was I got pregnant and so I had morning sickness and all of these other issues. So I did second guess things again during my med surgery rotation because I was just sick and not feeling good and I kind of fell behind a little bit. But when I went back after having my son, I was like, I don't have another choice. I need to do this. I need to do this for him. I need to do this for me. And when I went back, I just had a completely different mindset and I was able to just be like, I can make a difference for my son. I can make a difference for myself. I can make a difference for these patients. Like, I just need to do this. But, and like you said, wasn't, when people ask about my wife and I, anybody who sees pictures of us knows that I married up. uh anyone who sees, ah anyone who meets us and talks to us and things like that, um we always joke that it was never love at first sight, and it truly wasn't. ah I had crushes on all of her friends, and she really liked tall blonde guys, not named me. ah And so it was just this weird. confluence of things and then you know you how we came together and all that is not the purpose of this episode but the point of it is it wasn't love at first sight and not that not that your story sounds like that to me Jae but you know what I mean like you're saying like well at first I had this totally different perspective and then it took a bit and something happened and something changed and you're like oh my gosh and it sounds to me from that point you're off to the races full bore full stop like just putting everything you can into it right Mm-hmm. Yep. And I mean, it wasn't just one thing. It was a couple different things. Like I said, my trip to Peru and then getting married and having my son and you know, and that's, I mean, I guess we're gonna go over it later, but that's why I said it was so transitional for me because I transitioned from this young, like, I can just do whatever I want whenever I want it person to like, no, I have responsibilities. I'm gonna have people's lives in my hands, like, and I just had to grow, so. And we always tout, know, nursing is the best career in all the planet. Sorry, everybody else, but it is, it just is. uh And for so many reasons that have been described in this podcast that we're talking about now, but on that other side of it, married to the fact that it's the best career ever, it's also one of the most demanding in the terms of like, you have all this responsibility, right Jae? Mm-hmm you do and um I have to say it's the most fulfilling You know I I have been with women on the best day of their lives welcoming a very healthy baby, I've been with them on the worst day of their lives where they've welcomed a very unhealthy baby or unfortunately like a baby that didn't make it um and No matter what the situation was like knowing that I was there for them in a time of need is so fulfilling, exhausting, yes, but also very fulfilling. I, even though I've become a nurse practitioner, I feel like being a nurse practitioner, you still have that nursing core to where like you, you strive to give the, not saying that doctors don't and that PAs don't, like, because they do, but like, you just have that fundamental nursing basis where you're just like, I need to take care of this person as a whole. I need to be there for them. And it's just giving me more tools in my belt to be able to help them. That's the way to say it, right there. Because yeah, I've had many of a provider like, oh no, they're like, they acknowledge 100%. They're like, no, nurses are different. They're a different breed and we need nurses and X, Y, Z, I can't be that, you know what I mean? It's like, I love my role in this way. But nursing does give just that other perspective and I love that. So then, if you don't mind my asking, so you're. And I already warned you, like we're gonna be talking about this, because anytime I get a chance to pick another instructor's brain, I just love it, and especially a relatively newer one like me. um But you're definitely not a teenager in your instruction years here, and nor am I. I'm still a toddler when it comes to teaching others, which is either very encouraging or very discouraging, depending on who you are. uh But that being said, how did that piece come to be? Because again, I knew you as Bedside Nurse Jae. At what point are you like, you know, I wanna give it back, I wanna teach, has that always been a thing for you? Just open up that bit of your story. So my friend, when I lived in the Seattle area, my friend went back to school to get her master's in nursing education and she convinced me to do it with her. And I'm like, okay, why not? So I did it. Yeah, let's go ahead and do this. And so went back to school and I always loved having nursing students with me. always loved precepting, like I loved doing those things, but like I never thought of making a career out of it. I'm like, I'm not smart enough. Who would trust me to teach people? So I did that and then I was talking to a coworker after I left one of my hospitals and she told me that she was teaching clinical but she just can't anymore. She has too much on her plate and I was like, man, you I would really love to give that a chance. And this was in 2019 that I'm having this discussion. And so I taught my first clinical experience started January of 2020 as an instructor. We all know how well that worked out halfway through this semester. And then the second semester, it was all online clinicals. And that really stunk because I'm like, I don't feel like I'm teaching, not that I feel like I have much to teach them, but I'm really feeling like I don't have anything to teach them because I never met any of them in person. All of our clinicals were, you know, virtual simulations. And I'm like, man, what are we doing? Like I understood what we had to do because of the times, but like. It really stunk. So I stepped away and we also were making the decision to move. And so we moved over here and took some time to get settled. And as we were here, I'm like, I miss teaching clinicals. I really miss teaching clinicals. then um being in school and then stepping away from the bedside to focus on school because three days of clinicals plus three days of working, it was really hard on my family and the kids were just all suffering. So stepping away from the bedside, um I was then able to get in contact with WSU and apply for a position and it ended up not being a clinical position, but I started co-teaching a professional development class with Teresa and yes, I will be honest though these poor students last semester Teresa was finishing her doctorate and I was finishing my NP program so yeah, we're like I promise I had a thought, just give me two seconds so it can come back to me because all of a sudden I was thinking about my assignment that's due. And then as I was doing that, they said that they had an OB clinical position that was opening up this semester. And so I was very excited to be able to join that. And then in August, I found out that they had a senior practicum instructor position open as well. So I went ahead and picked that up. So I do, I really enjoy teaching. I really enjoy watching students. do something and then seeing that like a-ha moment, like the lecture, the simulation, all of it's coming through there like, I get it now. Like that is the most fulfilling thing outside of like patient care to see a student, somebody that you're teaching get that moment where everything just matches up and you're like, they're like, I get it now. So. And for any students that are listening, like, I'm just telling you right now, you might have an instructor that doesn't wear their emotions on their sleeves. You might have somebody who's, you know, maybe they got a little more flat affect. I don't know. But I can almost guarantee you that most instructors, obviously there's a few out there that are doing it because they need the money or whatever the case may be, or they're burned out. I can't speak towards them, but I promise you, most of us are out there because of that reason right there. where I get choked up because I like that's what we thrive off of is seeing you succeed, seeing you even just have one good clinical shift and be like, my gosh, I can do this. I was afraid to, know, some of my students like I've never held a baby. I didn't want to touch a baby. I've been dreading that moment in this clinical and then I did it today. And guess what? It turned out I can hold a baby. And it sounds silly. And I'm not talking about just young students. I'm talking about students of all ages. If you haven't had kids and you haven't touched a baby, it's terrifying the first time. uh But it's also like you just see that maturation. You see that growth. You see that achievement. And for those instructors that are worth their weight in gold, man, we are all like, yeah, go, that's it. I mean, I still I remember two clinicals and structures that I had in nursing school and one of them I swear up and down I know she's probably not actually like this but this is the feeling that I had in my clinical that she was like trying to make somebody like not continue on and that person happened to be me that one semester but you know but I also know that she as stringent and as strict as she was and as much as you felt like she didn't care, she was in a way, at least this is now my kind of adult mind thinking about it, she didn't want people in this program that weren't going to take it seriously because she understood what we had to do at graduation and that was be responsible for people and taking care of them and having to make split decisions that could cost somebody their life. I didn't understand it when I was in her clinical and I was struggling, but I feel like I understand it now. Was her approach the best? Probably not, but like, you know, don't think that there is an instructor that definitely wants you to fail, but they also want to make sure that you're going to be good, you're going to be strong, you're going to have the skills you need to be able to function and be that adult. Like, I'm sure you had it too, first day as a nurse, you're like, where's the nurse? Where's the adult? Yeah. I'm the... Exactly. So, um, I as as much as I hated it then and as much as I've Dwelled on it in the years since I had her and graduated and it was another instructor to you that I know I know to this day she's probably like That Jae, I don't think she's gonna make it but I am thankful because it gave me some resilience and some ability to be like, you know what? I'm going to do it. I'm just going to do it. Like, I'm going to show you that I can. So. And as a student, you're inspired one way or another, right? You've got to drive that inspiration either from those that are maybe a little more outwardly cheery like myself and or Jae, or those that you are like, no, they're out to get me. I swear they're out to get me. And I've had a couple of those in my career where I was like, my gosh, like it's the one that everybody doesn't want and I'm getting them and I keep getting this person and that person and the next one in line. And guess what? I'm a better nurse because of it. And so like just... take what you can from every single opportunity that presents itself. um Jae, this is not something you're prepared for. as we had already discussed, if y'all are hearing me babble on about this, then that means that this is going to make the cut. But it very well might not. And if it doesn't, none of this you're going to hear. Isn't that very meta of me? But with that, you talk about that moment of like, hey, who's going to entrust me? Should I be leading people? I should be? I'm teaching people? And it's a different kind of like, It's a similar feeling to when you first become a nurse. And I have these people's lives in my hands. Now you're talking about future nurses careers in your hands. And that's a very serious, um I don't wanna say heavy burden, but an honorable position to be in where you're like, okay, if I can impart anything into you and you can take that forward and become a better nurse because of it, then I think I've done my job. But you have those feelings, or you're like, my gosh, can I do this? It's something I've wanted to do. But can I do it? So I'm kind of marrying that with the idea of like imposter syndrome. You've heard that before. So then would you say that you have felt that as a new nursing instructor and even, you know, you can dial it back to when you first became a nurse as well, but just discuss imposter syndrome if you felt it and then how do you overcome it? Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've had an imposter syndrome all the way along the way, like becoming being a nurse, you know, I still remember because I took my boards in Virginia and in Virginia they didn't have the whole like you get your results in like a day or two option there. I don't know what that looks like now because obviously it's been many years since I took my NCLEX, but. So I'm sitting there on the. I was checking the Board of Nursing website multiple times a day. And at one point, like I logged in and it had a number there and I'm like, somebody messed up. They gave me a license. man, who's getting fired? And so then going in as being a nurse, know, it very much felt like an imposter because I'm like. Somebody's supposed to be looking over my shoulder while I do this. Wait, where's the adult? And the same thing was teaching clinical for the first time. I'm like. Who am I supposed to ask the questions to? Is this okay? I don't know if this is okay. Yeah, yeah. And I actually walked into an office because I was helping with something and as a nurse practitioner, I went to introduce myself. I'm like, hi, I'm Jae, the student nurse practitioner today. And I'm like, no, I'm the nurse practitioner today because I haven't had to introduce myself as that before. So. And I think it just is time. Like you have to give yourself grace. You have to give yourself patience. You have to give yourself your own understanding that you are growing. And I don't care if you've been a nurse for a day. I don't care if you've been a nurse for a decade. You are always going to grow, right? You're always going to get better. And I feel like no matter where you are in your career, at any point in time, you could have an imposter syndrome moment. And it could just be because you maybe transferred specialties or even I've had it transferring hospitals uh to where I went from a hospital where I had everything kind of like sacred to a more community access hospital. And I'm like, so where's where's NICU? I am NICU. Just kidding. It's me. So I think it's important to remember that no matter where you are in your career or uh in your education path or anything like that, you can have these moments and you just need to remember to give yourself time. to give yourself grace and to give yourself your own understanding that like, I'm not 100% perfect. and I'll back your play on that, Jae, because same thing, right? Like I've been a nurse quite a while and you still go into shifts and you're like, I could have done that better or how could I do this better? Or, and I don't wanna call it a, you know, this is either gonna encourage a lot of you or it's really gonna discourage you. be like, I gotta listen to this voice on my own head for like ever. No, it gets better. It does genuinely get better, but it's still always there. And like you said, I think as long as you're giving yourself grace, that's probably one of the key antidotes to this whole thing, but also understanding that we're never gonna be perfect. so, uh you know, even just as an instructor, and I've been doing this on my unit for a while, but I go to make assignments for my students this last week. And, you know, we had these nurses on our floor that are not core nurses, but they are cross-trained and been there long time. And I was like, Yeah, they can take a student. absolutely. So I told the night charge, yeah, we'll give it to them. And of course, if day charge changes at all, I'll make sure my students know that they may change who they're going to be with. We'll find out. But I was like, I think that's a fairly sound decision. And sure enough, I was like, yeah, no. also, and one of the nurses who didn't mind taking a student, she kept a student. And she was like, well, yeah, the other reason why I don't usually do that back on her home unit is because the other thing is you're usually first to float. And so when you lose census and stuff, that nurse who's not a core nurse is gonna be first to float because they're not your core nurse. And I was like, golly, I didn't even think about that this morning. You know what I mean? Like I've been doing this for how long? And so always be open to learn the thing and to be humble enough to, oh, okay, no, I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna say it. Jae, you're gonna love this. This popped up in my feed and I was like, I, yes, here it is. Okay, this popped up in my feed. And I was like, I need to tell this to every person I meet. Like, hello, my name is Eric. Listen to this quote, and then we can just talk like normal humans. um But it says this. If you went back and fixed all the mistakes you've ever made, you would erase yourself. Mm-hmm. Like, so always be ready, you guys. Just be ready. Everyone who's listening, you're gonna make mistakes. We make mistakes. We're gonna have that voice in our head. You may feel like an imposter, but don't let that override the good that you're doing for others. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. this day, I tell my students, like, I've made mistakes. I still make mistakes. But just remembering, like, OK, I made a mistake of not putting maybe a glove on is different than I'm making a mistake. Like, make sure you slow down and take your time where, like, things are really crucial because you don't want to do harm to anybody as well. But, you know. when I interviewed, I said the same thing, you know, because they're like, well, can you describe a time you made a mistake and what you did and, know, and what the and I gave some I don't remember what it was. But what I did say was this. And I'll never forget this. I said, I promise you, I'm a human being. Unfortunately, I will make mistakes. So in the meantime, I'm to pray it's not the big one that really hurts somebody. I will do my due diligence to try and make sure it's not the big one that hurts somebody. And no matter what mistakes I make, I promise you, I will make them once. and I will learn from them. And so that's it. That's the ticket, right? Yeah. Jae, I love it. I love it. love it. So I guess before we close up in our traditional manner, I've kind of taken this backwards. I I'd love to know more about you also and all the things as a person. But I mean, like, just you bring so much to the table when it comes to nursing, and that's where we're going to live here for this conversation. um take us, give me a glimpse. Yeah, this is it everybody. It's just self-serving. Give me a glimpse into a day at clinical with Jae. What do you do as an instructor to help ease the way of your students, I guess, to help make an impact, to help make things stick? How are you going about learning the process of teaching? So I really, I don't like sitting in a room on my computer waiting for students to find me. I really don't, I don't do good at it. I think I'm probably too social to like go and hide in a room. So I just, I round nonstop. I feel like I'm always going around the unit nonstop, checking on them, asking them if they have any questions, asking if they have anything I can help with. I have offered to go into rooms like if a nurse needs something done, but they can't do it. I am more than happy to go in with the students. That way we can get the tasks done. um Providing education that I see outside of the room, because it's not my job to embarrass a student in front of a patient if it's not going to cause imminent harm. So, you know, providing education outside the room, like, okay, so this is what I saw, but like this is what I would have done differently. You know, just giving like those little tidbits of things. And then at the end of the day for clinical conference. I go into the doctor's lounge and seek the Skeletor baby. If anybody works at Sacred, they know what the Skeletor baby is. um A pelvis and one of the fake placentas, so that way if there is anything that they heard on the labor floor or saw in like a prenatal record or something, I have things that I can use to help show kind of what that looks like rather than just trying to describe it or I am not an artist even in the least little bit. me drawing diagrams is not helpful. oh placentas just don't come across the same as I understand. not as much, no. So, you know, I tried to use visuals and tried to talk everything through as much as I can, because I never want somebody to leave clinicals and be like, I didn't know what this was. Like, please ask me, like, let's talk about it, or this is what we learned in lecture, or this is what I saw on the floor, and like trying to bridge that, like, that disconnect, sometimes it happens from a lecture to an actual clinical practice, or maybe the lecture is giving, you know, more up-to-date evidence-based practice, but we're still trying to... that up in the actual practice. um So you know where where that bridge may be because it's not fair to students to be like I wish I understood this more like I'd rather talk about it in clinical in a safe environment than have them be like I don't know I understand like what am I doing? Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. Thank you for sharing that because it gives me, like, I wish selfishly that I could just go in with every single instructor that I know who I look up to and who I'm like, I want to be like them when I grow up. I just want to, like, do one shift with them. When I got hired at the OB position at Gonzaga, Hallie Butler, who you knew, previous honored guest, guys, look up her episodes, absolutely incredible. But she's an incredible force of nature, this woman. um And so the people who interviewed me at Gonzaga said, well, we're going to give you a shift. Like, we want to pay to have you shadow Hallie. Even though they knew I was teaching peds at Wazzu, I I still, you know, I was new at everything. So I'm definitely not going to turn this down. But even more than that, I'm like, OK, wait a second. So I get to get paid to work with someone who is like, as best as I can tell, one of the top in her craft? Yes, please. And that's what I wish I could do with everybody. I wish I could just go in their room and see how that works. so, Jae, before, and I just said it again, and I'm gonna say it probably three more times, but before we close in our traditional manner, um is there anything about yourself that you definitely want to come across? Because I mean, tell us about your family, tell us about whatever, but like, what are you most proud of? What do you want? What quality traits of yourself? Do you, would it benefit our listeners most to know about you? That I already know well about you. I'm like, what do you know about me that I don't know about me? ah I mean, the thing that I'm most proud of is my kids. My kids are all nightmares occasionally. They are wonderful kids and I'm learning things from them each and every day. Like my oldest, he he's trying to graduate a year early. He's doing really well in cross country and all of his sports and like He is stubborn as all get out. don't know where he got that from. Nope. But he, you know, I'm learning more resilience from watching him grow. uh My second kiddo, he has severe ADHD with anxiety and depression, but he is the most creative kid you can meet. Like he can do Legos without instructions and like he's always drawing things and I wish I had more of that creativity. My third kiddo, he has sensory processing disorder, but he can love unconditionally and he sees the world with rose colored glasses and I envy that so much because I am such a pessimistic, half glass bowl type person um that I'm trying to be more like him where I'm trying to just see good in people. And then my daughter, um she is feisty and she has almost... no fear, like she'll just jump into things without even second guessing it. And I just, I wish I had that much confidence in myself. Like she got up on stage with Walker Hayes when he was here with Brad Paisley and was dancing. I'm like, who are you, child? There is no way that I would have been able to just jump up and like start dancing with nobody's business. So yeah. But you know, I'm there. I'm so proud to be their mom. And I'm so proud to be able to watch them grow and see these people that they're growing into and at the same time trying to be a parent to where I'm like, I'm not gonna let you grow up to be a little butt monkey. Like, I need you to still like, be respectful to people, but I'm trying to balance that act. you know, they're the thing that makes me the most proud in life. um But you know, I've always said about myself like, I'm a pretty good wife. I'm a pretty good mom. I'm an okay friend. But the one thing that I know that I am good at is being a nurse. That is the one thing that I've always been able to... Well, maybe not that first year of nursing, but I've always been able to pride myself on is I know I'm a good nurse. There's always things for me to learn. There's always room for me to grow. But I know that I am a good nurse and I hope that I can teach that to my students, whether or not it's in a lecture class or whether or not it's on clinical. I know some of them think that I may be unfair or maybe harsh, but like any feedback that I give them or like, you know, if I have to do a performance improvement plan or something, it's to help them be better. It's not because I want to get them in trouble. I want them to be better because these are going to be people's lives that they're going to be taken care of as soon as they graduate. Like these are lives that they're going to have in their hands. And while we all make mistakes, like I never want them to have that looming over them of that mistake where they hurt someone. Yeah, very well said, very well said. Man, Jae. Well, with that then, as a former student, as a former bedside nurse, as an instructor, as a nurse practitioner, you chose three words to describe nursing school. What were those three words and why did you, that represents all of those different areas, pick? So I think everybody can admit nursing school is rough. It is exhausting, it's overwhelming, it's frustrating. There's times that you feel like, why did I do this? There's times where you feel like you're not gonna make it through. There's times that you're like, I'm done. It's a rough patch, but no matter, and I said this about my previous clinical instructors, I've said this about myself. Nobody wants to see you fail. They just wanna make sure that you are given the tools to be a good nurse. when you graduate. so yeah, it's rough, but as I'll remember, this is just a small period of time. As eye-opening, um I realized early on that nursing school was not going to be what I thought it was. um But through clinical, through watching my instructors even interact with other nurses on the floor coming into my rooms with me to do patient care, um I continued to learn and see the difference that nurses could make. And um I learned from that and it helped me aspire to that's what I wanted to be. Nursing school is definitely not what I was thinking it was going to be. And then I did touch on this, uh you know, it was transitional. I started nursing school as a, you know, early twenties, no kid, I was not married. uh And then I had this huge transition period where I got married, I had a baby and I just grew as a person, as a mom, as a wife, as a friend, as a nurse, you know, all of those things and. eh It just helped me. I transitioned into being a nurse and it's just a very transformational period for anybody. Yeah, yeah, very much so. Awesome. So well said. I love the words, I love the reasons, and it is. It's a transition that, I don't know, you feel like you've made it at certain points where you go, okay, yes, I've made that transition now. I do feel what it feels like to actually be the one that my patients can rely on. And then you do something new and you're like, okay, no, I gotta make this new transition. The transitions never end. but I feel like your ability to adapt to them might get better. Yeah? Yeah. yeah. And I put this in the email to you, but like, you know, I want every student and every nurse out there to know their worth. And as you go through transitional periods, like you may have been a med surg nurse and now you're going to the ICU and you may feel like you don't know anything. And why did I do this? And I need to go back to my comfort zone. But like you bring something to the table that no one else on that unit has and that's you. You bring in your own eyes, you bring in your own ears, you bring in your own experience, you bring in your own knowledge, and you have worth, whether or not you've been a nurse for a day, or you've been a nurse for 100 years, you have your own worth, and that is something that nobody should ever forget, because that is something that nobody else has. Yes, and whether or not you've been told you have that worth. Maybe this is the first time you're hearing that from someone. um Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so the next to last question, the last one you've prepared for, which is if you had one piece of advice for nursing student, if you had one thing you want them to walk away with knowing after hearing your episode, what would that be? I think I just said that. That's why I asked that. was like, I want to know if you're like, I'm like, hmm, I want know if she's going to double down on that or give me something different. Let's check it out. Never let yourself feel like you're just a number on a sheet. Never let yourself feel like you are just a staffing number matrix. You are so much more and continue to grow, continue to evolve, continue to build your knowledge. I know our evidence based practice is something that no nursing student wants to hear anymore at this point, but continue to build your knowledge because that evidence-based practice is there for your patients, it's there for you, and if you're starting to feel like you are just a number, maybe that's not the best place for you and you can find a better home. Awesome. And then the true next to last question that you're not prepared for. If you had advice for any other nursing instructor, what would that be? patience, have patience and not like the physical patient like the emotional patience. Yeah. I have to say like having nursing students back at the beginning of 2020. those students are so different than the students that we have now and especially the students that we have now are different than students that I went to school with, that students that I taught before. So having patience as it's a transitional period for you too, as you're working through the transitional period for all of these students coming through because they're learning, they're in The generation is just different. When I went to nursing school, most of our stuff was still on pen and paper. So all of these technical issues that could be going on, um I have a really bad, I'm still learning Canvas. And so I didn't realize how much students rely on the due dates and times in Canvas to tell them when things are due, because I had the paper planner. And so. ah Just having patience as like this generation is different than maybe the one that you were in when you went to school or the one that you taught before before you took a break and ah it's a growing period for everyone involved and yeah. Yeah, awesome. And then the last question for you, and I'm just doing this because you wear so many hats. If you had one piece of advice for nurses who are listening, what would that be? uh I think it's gonna be the same thing as instructors like have patience with these new students, you know ah Some of them are gonna come out of nursing school thinking that they have it all and they're going to learn that they probably don't but ah Or there's gonna be some that come out thinking that they don't know anything, but they're actually really smart and they have all of that information ah it's just they need the time to build their confidence and As nurses like we need to be patient with them, we need to be patient with each other. This is a very interesting time for nursing right now. And it's not to discourage anybody to going into nursing, but you know, we have a major nursing shortage. We have nurses that are leaving the bedside quickly. We have, you know, violence towards nursing staff or medical staff altogether. We have, we have seen medical care turn into a um more profitable organization rather than actually focusing on patient care. So we need to be patient and kind and um with each other and with these nurses as they are learning how to be nurses and eh if we don't support them, we're not going to have anybody to come and help us. Bingo, 100%. ah Jae, thank you so much for bringing the wisdom ah in so many different versions of you. I don't know how much wisdom I brought, but. And there's that and we're just gonna close with imposter syndrome everybody ah No, thank you Jae. can't I can't thank you enough and I hope you have a lovely rest your day my You too, thanks for having me. um Hopefully somebody got something out of this podcast. um If anything, please just remember your worth.